Ukraine Thread

**Sarmatian** · 07-13-2015, 16:34

Originally Posted by Gilrandir

Again, in war you kill indisriminate people fighting against you without asking thier nationality.

And all men of military age were killed indiscriminately. Those men used the status of UN protected enclave to raid surrounding communities, only to fall back, hide behind UN troops and do it all over again. And again, and again, and again... After they were beaten, Bosnian Serb forces killed all POWs.

None of it makes it excusable.
None of it makes it a genocide. One could call it a massacre, a war crime, a crime against humanity, take your pick, but not a genocide...

If that is the definition of a genocide, Every.Single.Nation on earth has committed genocide multiple times. Ukrainians against the Poles and Jews, Poles against Ukrainians, English against Arabs, Americans against Native Americans, Vietnamis, Iraqis, Afghanis and Mexicans, Germany against just about every nation the conquered in ww2, Russians against Poles and various Asian tribes/countries, Greeks against the Turks, Turks against the Greeks, all European colonizers against native population on all continents and so on.

To label it a genocide is supposed to justify western policies and actions during the nineties. It is insulting to those who truly were victims of genocide to compare it.

**Brenus** · 07-14-2015, 06:58

"You mean he gathered all members of a community, chose German males among them and shot them?" Much better! The community identified itself in wearing green/grey uniforms (men and women),so the choice was easy to do, and gathered in buildings, train or lorries. He just have to blow-up the trains/lorries, then finish off the job with light machine-guns.

**Gilrandir** · 07-14-2015, 15:55

Originally Posted by Sarmatian

And all men of military age were killed indiscriminately.

I heard that they weren't just men of military age, but Muslim/Bosniaks of military age.

**Sarmatian** · 07-14-2015, 17:06

Originally Posted by Gilrandir

I heard that they weren't just men of military age, but Muslim/Bosniaks of military age.

So? When Americans bombed Japanase cities and villages, they should have hopped over to Thailand afterwards to kill an equal number of Thais, so they're not accused of bias?

Are you serious?

**Gilrandir** · 07-15-2015, 15:16

Originally Posted by Sarmatian

So? When Americans bombed Japanase cities and villages, they should have hopped over to Thailand afterwards to kill an equal number of Thais, so they're not accused of bias?

Are you serious?

I'm trying to show that it was not indiscriminate slaughter, as you tried to convince us, but one ethnic/religious group was targeted. Whatever you might say, it reeks of genocide (on a small scale, of course, no match for the Armenian one, for instance).

Meanwhile, Russia proclaims itself above the international law.
http://rt.com/politics/273523-russia...-constitution/
One more reason to sign treaties wit Putin.

**Brenus** · 07-15-2015, 18:24

"Meanwhile, Russia proclaims itself above the international law.
http://rt.com/politics/273523-russia...-constitution/
One more reason to sign treaties wit Putin." EUROPEAN Human Right Court. USA always refused to sign on the Human Right Convention. One more reason to sign treaties with USA? And I think that was one point the UK Prime Minister promised during the last campaign, he wants to get rid as well of the European Human Right Convention.

**Gilrandir** · 07-16-2015, 06:34

Originally Posted by Brenus

"Meanwhile, Russia proclaims itself above the international law.
http://rt.com/politics/273523-russia...-constitution/
One more reason to sign treaties wit Putin." EUROPEAN Human Right Court. USA always refused to sign on the Human Right Convention. One more reason to sign treaties with USA? And I think that was one point the UK Prime Minister promised during the last campaign, he wants to get rid as well of the European Human Right Convention.

Russia DID sign the Convention (although didn't ratify it) and now refuses to obey what it signed (as was the case with 1994 Budapest memorandum and 1997 Treaty of Friendship and Cooperation with Ukraine). If you don't see the difference, I do.

**Brenus** · 07-16-2015, 07:28

"(although didn't ratify it)" Key point. So it is not signed...

**Sarmatian** · 07-16-2015, 08:21

Originally Posted by Gilrandir

Russia DID sign the Convention (although didn't ratify it) and now refuses to obey what it signed (as was the case with 1994 Budapest memorandum and 1997 Treaty of Friendship and Cooperation with Ukraine). If you don't see the difference, I do.

Country is not bound by the treaty until it has been ratified.

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**rvg** · 07-16-2015, 04:16

Originally Posted by Sarmatian

And all men of military age were killed indiscriminately. Those men used the status of UN protected enclave to raid surrounding communities, only to fall back, hide behind UN troops and do it all over again. And again, and again, and again... After they were beaten, Bosnian Serb forces killed all POWs.

None of it makes it excusable.
None of it makes it a genocide. One could call it a massacre, a war crime, a crime against humanity, take your pick, but not a genocide...

If that is the definition of a genocide, Every.Single.Nation on earth has committed genocide multiple times. Ukrainians against the Poles and Jews, Poles against Ukrainians, English against Arabs, Americans against Native Americans, Vietnamis, Iraqis, Afghanis and Mexicans, Germany against just about every nation the conquered in ww2, Russians against Poles and various Asian tribes/countries, Greeks against the Turks, Turks against the Greeks, all European colonizers against native population on all continents and so on.

To label it a genocide is supposed to justify western policies and actions during the nineties. It is insulting to those who truly were victims of genocide to compare it.

Couldn't agree more. It's a simple matter of shooting first so you don't get shot. Remove kebab before kebab removes you.