I'm hosting a game!

[landlubber]

No.

I'm serious, we can use gchat or AOL or whatever people use for IM. I want a public case on me. I want robust, informed discussion.

[seireikhaan]

I'm serious, we can use gchat or AOL or whatever people use for IM. I want a public case on me. I want robust, informed discussion.

You want robust discussion, yet every time valid arguments have been brought to bear, you simply have said those are wrong. Can't have it both ways, pal.

[landlubber]

You want robust discussion, yet every time valid arguments have been brought to bear, you simply have said those are wrong. Can't have it both ways, pal.

I'm sorry, but that's simply not true. I laid out a case against GH, I'm practically begging for a real case against me, and I've done everything I can to try and figure out what's going on between the two of you. And, honestly, there haven't been arguments, I've only seen one argument, that anyone would have done as you did. I disagreed, I said that most townies in my experience are more willing for some self-sacrifice. I said that your unholy trinity of Monty-lynching seems coordinated, that there's something the town doesn't know. I've tried to spark discussion.

I'm absolutely flabbergasted if GH and Khaan are town, I really am. I take back what I said about being partly responsible for this loss. The game is in their hands at this point.

[seireikhaan]

I'm sorry, but that's simply not true. I laid out a case against GH, I'm practically begging for a real case against me, and I've done everything I can to try and figure out what's going on between the two of you. And, honestly, there haven't been arguments, I've only seen one argument, that anyone would have done as you did. I disagreed, I said that most townies in my experience are more willing for some self-sacrifice. I said that your unholy trinity of Monty-lynching seems coordinated, that there's something the town doesn't know. I've tried to spark discussion.

I'm absolutely flabbergasted if GH and Khaan are town, I really am. I take back what I said about being partly responsible for this loss. The game is in their hands at this point.

You wanna know what's "going on" between me and GH? Let's see. We were moderators-in-crime for a couple years and good friends outside of that. We've picked each other's brains on so many damn subjects there'd be no way to count, but needless to say, the subject of Mafia has been beaten to death. We've seen each other as scum plenty of times- hell, one time I *knew* he was mafia for an entire game and got to watch him as it unfolded(as I was the mastermind). That's why I don't think he's mafia. And for some reason I got scum roles all the damn time, so you can bet your rear end GH got his own feeling on me.

Stupid cases were made against GH earlier in the game based on him pm'ing someone(THE CRIME). So I defended him because the case was dumb. PM'ing people is not suspicious, especially not on day 1. In fact, it's borderline suicidal if anything goes wrong. Mafia don't want to put their ass on the line for a neutral role with nothing invested in them, especially when that role can't even help them. That's just idiotic. Mafia will let Visor die. Flat out. It is vastly more townie to reach out to someone who's going to get railroaded by a paranoid town.

Then you wanna know what happened with Monty? I'll freakin' tell ya. I mentioned to GH in private later on that people's minds had changed wind and they potentially rarin' to see me off. Me and GH were both previously voting for winston because we both agreed he was following a voting pattern we both have frequently used(and in fact, lapsed into) as mafia. There was a single random vote on Monty, which meant he was the only person to lynch to ensure I wasn't. I don't know how many times we both have to reiterate. If I know I'm town, why the hell would I let myself be lynched? That's not a noble sacrifice, that's damn dumb. So yeah, GH helped me out because he apparently thought there was less of a chance that I was mafia than Monty, and maybe because y'all have been harassing him the entire game over something THAT WASN'T SUSPICIOUS. You want someone to cooperate with you, maybe you shouldn't treat them like the damn bad guy the entire game.

[landlubber]

[...] y'all have been harassing him the entire game over something THAT WASN'T SUSPICIOUS. You want someone to cooperate with you, maybe you shouldn't treat them like the damn bad guy the entire game.

I've been cautious toward GH. I'm not positive, but I think this is my first vote on him the entire game. Yeah, I've said that he was suspicious, but so what? That's how the game goes. I was trying to get holistic reads on everyone.

This is what it sounds like to me: your friendship means more than this individual game (and I don't blame you for that). You trust each other. Fine. Great. But, if you two are both town, we've lost this game, because I'm the third. If Ishamel and JHT are the mafia, they'd happily lynch me. Game over. They win.

I don't have any cards left in my hand. Vote for whoever you want, I guess. I'm too far outside of your clique to be of any help to you, and that's very, very disheartening. I'm an optimistic person, but we've got no hope, because you've now condemned a townie for the sake of protecting each other. Nothing I say has changed your minds, so I may as well stop contributing. We've lost. No hard feelings. Let's try and keep cooperation in mind for the next go-round.

[seireikhaan]

I've been cautious toward GH. I'm not positive, but I think this is my first vote on him the entire game. Yeah, I've said that he was suspicious, but so what? That's how the game goes. I was trying to get holistic reads on everyone.

This is what it sounds like to me: your friendship means more than this individual game (and I don't blame you for that). You trust each other. Fine. Great. But, if you two are both town, we've lost this game, because I'm the third. If Ishamel and JHT are the mafia, they'd happily lynch me. Game over. They win.

I don't have any cards left in my hand. Vote for whoever you want, I guess. I'm too far outside of your clique to be of any help to you, and that's very, very disheartening. I'm an optimistic person, but we've got no hope, because you've now condemned a townie for the sake of protecting each other. Nothing I say has changed your minds, so I may as well stop contributing. We've lost. No hard feelings. Let's try and keep cooperation in mind for the next go-round.

A) Don't get a debbie downer, that's annoying. We're still waiting on the rest of the folks to show up. If you think me and GH have a hard vote set for you, don't. Knock that off.

B) I was not specifically referring to you, I was referring to the votes and mini-wagons that have occurred with regularity since GH first contacted Visor. Every time someone asks GH to defend himself. He did. Then I pointed out even more flaws with those accusations. Then that is promptly ignored. It has happened with regularity. If you think that's exasperating to me as someone who just *thinks* GH is innocent, imagine being him?

[seireikhaan]

And lastly, do you really think a mafioso just called in the last remaining players to try and make sure they voted? Let's say me and GH actually *are* the mafia team. We're sitting here lodging 2 votes on you, so just to make sure we get lynched nice and good, GH calls out everyone else so they can keep up their angry mob act that I had the gall to save myself.

Seriously, at this point the most suspicious thing about you is that you've been only half-engaged with us the whole time. You claimed you wanted robust discussion, but you only address half our points, at best. Give *us* something too.

[landlubber]

A) Don't get a debbie downer, that's annoying. We're still waiting on the rest of the folks to show up. If you think me and GH have a hard vote set for you, don't. Knock that off.

You've provided no evidence-based case, even after I prodded you for one repeatedly. I said you could talk to me in private, whatever it took to build a bridge. I really just want to know what you're thinking, because, by this point, I accept that at least one of you is almost certainly townie. I want the town to win, of course, but what avenue do I have left when it's entirely possible that 100% of the town is voting for me without elaboration, which, for all I know, has more to do with personal relationships than the game itself? I'm being realistic. That's all.

[El Barto]

GM note: Csargo and Montmorency are both dead, so they can neither be talked to nor voted for.

[landlubber]

By the way, if I seem on edge tonight, it's because I am, and it has a lot more to do with problems at home and moving back to college tomorrow than this game.