IMMIGRATION thread

[Snowhobbit]

Not in this form in 1992, and also EU was much smaller, and that was the record year for immigration in Germany, more than 1.5 million.



It is relatively hard to find complete data. Most works on the subject have to make a lot of assumptions, but generally the consensus is that immigrants are a net gain, especially in the long run, over 50 years or so.
For instance, a study from Oxford university found that if the current migration levels remain stable (+140k per year), public debt in UK would be at about a 100% of the GDP in 2063. If there is a higher level of immigration(+260k per year) the public debt would be 75% of the GDP in 2063. With zero net immigration, public debt would grow to 150% of the GDP in 2063.

All those findings need to be taken with a pinch of salt, indeed, but since there is no definitive proof either way, the best we currently have are educated guesses, and they suggest that immigrants on the whole are a net gain, especially in stable, organized countries.


I tend to connect criminal activity more with poverty and lack of options in life in general than with culture or religion. Trying to find relevant data is hard because googling "crime" and "immigrants" in any way shape or form tends to bring back thousand of anti-immigrants blogs and activist site which bear no relation with reality.


No. Why did you?



That was you. Don't tell me you weren't aware of the right wing narrative of Poles and other eastern Europeans stealing UK jobs, or just being lazy ***** who collect benefits. Studies found that they were better educated than Brits, contributed more fiscally, less likely to be unemployed and receive benefits and so on...

For the other part, I completely understand why are you so revolted, but answer me this, please - if a Muslim Briton kills other Britons, that is betrayal. What's the word you use when a non-Muslim Briton kills other Britons?

In the form that Germany is in it and that free movement is allowed for all workers, it does indeed date back to the 60's. Of course it does not exist within the EU framework before 1992, since the EU was not founded until 1992. But we are not discussing EU but free movement of people.

There is most certainly a whole lot of research on employment numbers of the two respective groups, I would suggest you look harder (for example at OECD). From these numbers, and the numbers of people on welfare and the cost of that, we can extrapolate whether people are a cost or a gain. The study that you refer to clumps all migration into one. There is a huge difference between a German engineer and a Polish plumber, let alone between a Syrian dentist and a Syrian farmer, in terms of employability, capacity to support oneself and generate taxes, integration into society, criminality and other costs, usage of welfare etc. To clump all into one is highly disingenuous. For reference of how to not do the reports, you can look up Sandviken immigration report. I would reccommend among others Tino Sanadaji for a hard economic science look at the thing.

Of course Googling crime+immigrants will turn up a whole lot of crap, that is the nature of the beast. In 2005 I think it was (before the government decided it was not a good idea to show a public account of this figure) BRÅ (Crime prevention council) produced a report on the over representation of immigrants compared to natives in crime, dividing it up by crime categories for native, first and second generation immigrants, as well as immigrants by region as a whole. These numbers were adjusted for socio-economic factors, but all the same the over representation among crimes, especially the really bad ones like aggravated assault, murder and rape was quite large. Today we no longer get public numbers on this, but Swedes are now a minority in jail doing hard time. But yeah there are people screaming bloody murder for no reason on the internet and certain groups are painted bad as a whole. I would like to add that even with the massive over representation something like 98% of immigrants are not criminals.

I'm glad you asked. We were looking at an influx of about half a million per year minimum. The reception systems were unable to handle it and we were having people sleeping in tents in winter (heated mind you), near a thousand people were housed in a convention hall where they had all of 12 bathrooms to share. We have rampant crimes being committed in the centers, a large spike in public sexual assault. Our swimming pools have become havens for sexual crimes and I would question the sanity of anyone bringing their female children or even adult female relatives or friends to such an establishment. We have completely failed at checking the age of so called unaccompanied "minors" (not that all of them are not minors, but possibly a majority of them are adults). We've had cases of children being raped by the pretend children in the homes. We've had a man of 40+ years old being treated as a child. We've had a female worker in one of the homes be stabbed to death as she intervened to save the life of a probably actually child being assaulted to a "child". We spend more on these children than the entire Afghan state budget, including foreign aid. Our social services are unable to meet the demands that the law places upon them and have started reporting themselves for this. We are lacking about 1 million homes nationwide, today. The absolute majority of the people who have arrived are educated for about 5 years on average, in a highly developed and demanding economy where we have taxed the smaller easier jobs out of the market decades ago. We are reaching levels where the housing standard might return to what it was 100 years ago (no internal plumbing or heating), in order to provide a roof over the head for people.

Oh and we are likely going to have to send about 80,000 people home due to their application being denied next year. Last year police had the task to send about 5,000 home but only managed 4,000. In smaller cities police (police nation-wide are used to enforce the border controls) lack the resources to investigate murder and attempted murder. We have street gangs of North African "children" who basically get to act outside the law, openly engage in drug trade less than a kilometer from parliament and frequently gang-raping women. Police are unable to prosecute them due to their claimed age, and when they do get caught they are often out within a week, having escaped from the foster home in which they were placed.

I think that about sums it up, but someone can correct me if I've missed something.