IMMIGRATION thread

[Fragony]

If you have people arriving on your doorstep you either let them in and help them if they need it or shut them out and force them away if they persist. Those are your choices.

Option number two, if it's just of no use to try it will be on the social-networks economic-migrants use in notime. I completly agree with Pannonian, if you are safe and travel further you are no longer a refugee but a migrant, and that must stop.

[Husar]

Option number two, if it's just of no use to try it will be on the social-networks economic-migrants use in notime. I completly agree with Pannonian, if you are safe and travel further you are no longer a refugee but a migrant, and that must stop.

You always talk about how many people are not safe in German refugee camps. What makes you think they would be safe in refugee camps elsewhere? Or please just expand on what exactly you mean.

[Fragony]

You always talk about how many people are not safe in German refugee camps. What makes you think they would be safe in refugee camps elsewhere? Or please just expand on what exactly you mean.

They don't come to Germany with the intention to go home. If you travel any further than the first safe country you stop being a refugee and become a migrant.

[Husar]

They don't come to Germany with the intention to go home. If you travel any further than the first safe country you stop being a refugee and become a migrant.

Yeah, well, if I told you you can live in a trashcan here and return to live in a toilet in five years, or you could try to go get a good life in a faraway land, what would you prefer? If money is their sole motivation, how come they didn't all come before there was a war?

[Pannonian]

Yeah, well, if I told you you can live in a trashcan here and return to live in a toilet in five years, or you could try to go get a good life in a faraway land, what would you prefer? If money is their sole motivation, how come they didn't all come before there was a war?

And if Britain is any indicator, you can leave for a faraway land to make your fortune, be welcomed by the locals, integrate yourself into British society, raise a family that's as inculcated in local norms as any other British family. And your children decide this isn't for them, decide to identify themselves with the Muslim nation that their parents left rather than the British nation that raised them, and become a jihadi to kill abroad or even in Britain. And aside from those who take violent action, there are quite a few who cheer them on, even though they too were born in and raised in Britain.

For every other community, you can expect a process of integration, but once that process is done, future generations are accepted as indelibly British. Only among the Muslim community do you have such a proliferation of de-integration, so that at no point can you be confident that integration is done, and there is a good chance that those who de-integrate themselves will turn to violent action against Britain and Britons. And such is the loyalty of British Muslims to Britain, that they're more likely to fight for ISIS than to fight for Britain.

Nope, as MSK says, his people is not the British people. We don't need any more of his people here.

[Sarmatian]

And such is the loyalty of British Muslims to Britain, that they're more likely to fight for ISIS than to fight for Britain.

That is actually not true.

There are some 650 Muslims in British Armed Forces and some 450 British Muslims fighting in Syria, in all groups, although the estimation is that the majority of those 450 are indeed with ISIS.

There have been more British Muslims in Syria but they became disillusioned with various opposition forces who either collaborated with fundamentalists or were in fact fundamentalists themselves.

Don't think every single person who went to Syria is a traitor.

The number of attacks was few, but what about the number of victims? The Russian plane that fell in Egypt would make up for a dozen terror attacks victim-wise.

"quite a few" meaning a respectable number. Russia wasn't a target of Middle Eastern terrorists before Russia started meddling in Syria.

Point being, it contradicts the notion that terrorism isn't connected to a political goal.

[Snowhobbit]

That is actually not true.

There are some 650 Muslims in British Armed Forces and some 450 British Muslims fighting in Syria, in all groups, although the estimation is that the majority of those 450 are indeed with ISIS.

There have been more British Muslims in Syria but they became disillusioned with various opposition forces who either collaborated with fundamentalists or were in fact fundamentalists themselves.

Don't think every single person who went to Syria is a traitor.



"quite a few" meaning a respectable number. Russia wasn't a target of Middle Eastern terrorists before Russia started meddling in Syria.

Point being, it contradicts the notion that terrorism isn't connected to a political goal.

Do I need to boil my previous post down so that it does not contain as much information in response for you to address it?

[Pannonian]

That is actually not true.

There are some 650 Muslims in British Armed Forces and some 450 British Muslims fighting in Syria, in all groups, although the estimation is that the majority of those 450 are indeed with ISIS.

There have been more British Muslims in Syria but they became disillusioned with various opposition forces who either collaborated with fundamentalists or were in fact fundamentalists themselves.

Don't think every single person who went to Syria is a traitor.

They're not traitors. To be a traitor to Britain, you have to be British, then betray Britain. As your earlier quote illustrates, British Muslims are Muslims, not British. Even if they were born in Britain, if they are Muslim, then their people is the Muslim nation, not Britain.

[Gaius Sempronius Gracchus]

And if Britain is any indicator, you can leave for a faraway land to make your fortune, be welcomed by the locals, integrate yourself into British society, raise a family that's as inculcated in local norms as any other British family. And your children decide this isn't for them, decide to identify themselves with the Muslim nation that their parents left rather than the British nation that raised them, and become a jihadi to kill abroad or even in Britain. And aside from those who take violent action, there are quite a few who cheer them on, even though they too were born in and raised in Britain.

For every other community, you can expect a process of integration, but once that process is done, future generations are accepted as indelibly British. Only among the Muslim community do you have such a proliferation of de-integration, so that at no point can you be confident that integration is done, and there is a good chance that those who de-integrate themselves will turn to violent action against Britain and Britons. And such is the loyalty of British Muslims to Britain, that they're more likely to fight for ISIS than to fight for Britain.

Nope, as MSK says, his people is not the British people. We don't need any more of his people here.

I'm sorry but.....this is just rabid BS. I live in Leeds. We have a large Muslim population here, Muslims come from surrounding areas to work here (Bradford, Keighley, Huddersfield etc.). I know a lot of Muslims and, there are not "quite a few" who "cheer them on". They go to mosque, a number of them take their own annual leave to do charitable work. They are, in other ways, remarkably like the other human beings I live and work alongside. Who'd have thunk it, eh? That they might be like...people.

I don't see the menace you describe, it has no reality.

[Greyblades]

I'm sorry but.....this is just rabid BS. I live in Leeds. We have a large Muslim population here, Muslims come from surrounding areas to work here (Bradford, Keighley, Huddersfield etc.). I know a lot of Muslims and, there are not "quite a few" who "cheer them on". They go to mosque, a number of them take their own annual leave to do charitable work. They are, in other ways, remarkably like the other human beings I live and work alongside. Who'd have thunk it, eh? That they might be like...people.

I don't see the menace you describe, it has no reality.

"I cannot see god therefore he doesnt exist."

Tell me how many of the muslims you know are poor, how many are migrants, first generation, second? How many of them have you gone out and asked if they celebrate? How many of them would answer you truthfully if they did?

I dare say all of us british orgahs have similar experiences of british muslims, most of them are integrated fine and even ones that are not are sure to put on a brave face while in public but it is fallacious in the extreme to dismiss the existance of a undercurrent of sympathy just because you personally, as an outsider looking in, have not knowingly encountered it.

[Fragony]

Yeah, well, if I told you you can live in a trashcan here and return to live in a toilet in five years, or you could try to go get a good life in a faraway land, what would you prefer? If money is their sole motivation, how come they didn't all come before there was a war?

Because they weren't invited to come en masse back then

[Gilrandir]

Since Russian involvement in Syria, there has been a quite a few terror attacks on Russian soil or on Russian citizens abroad.

The number of attacks was few, but what about the number of victims? The Russian plane that fell in Egypt would make up for a dozen terror attacks victim-wise.