Brexit Thread

[Husar]

That is staged, Soraya is not a Turkish name. Nice cockney accent.

I understand "I come from a family of islamic morrocan migrants", and while I'm not sure if she actually says morrocan or mumbles something else, she certainly didn't say she's turkish. You need to work on your observation skills and not make stuff up.

As for her destroying Cameron, how?
She has some irrational fear that Turkey is going to join the EU anytime soon and Cameron destroys that in the end. The rest is her just talking about all the bad things she heard from her uncle's auntie's boyfriend's mate about how bad it is to stay in the EU. Maybe Britain should have kept her out right away because she is muslim and therefore potentially a dangerous murdering criminal anyway?

And why is Cameron an EU defender now? I always got the impression that he'd be happy to leave?

[Gilrandir]

I understand "I come from a family of islamic morrocan migrants", and while I'm not sure if she actually says morrocan or mumbles something else, she certainly didn't say she's turkish. You need to work on your observation skills and not make stuff up.

As for her destroying Cameron, how?
She has some irrational fear that Turkey is going to join the EU anytime soon and Cameron destroys that in the end. The rest is her just talking about all the bad things she heard from her uncle's auntie's boyfriend's mate about how bad it is to stay in the EU. Maybe Britain should have kept her out right away because she is muslim and therefore potentially a dangerous murdering criminal anyway?

And why is Cameron an EU defender now? I always got the impression that he'd be happy to leave?

And she is really indignat that the Turks had a brawl in the parliament. The Japanese and Taiwanese parliaments do so from time to time and ...? Should the UK stop any contacts with them?

[Fragony]

My observation skills are just fine Hussie, you'll see.

[InsaneApache]

She has some irrational fear that Turkey is going to join the EU anytime soon and Cameron destroys that in the end.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-10773007

And why is Cameron an EU defender now? I always got the impression that he'd be happy to leave?

Because the buttered new potato is a liar politician.

The Japanese and Taiwanese parliaments do so from time to time and ...? Should the UK stop any contacts with them?

Perhaps because, you know, they're not in Europe and therefore unlikely to be asked to join the EU. Having said that.....if Israel and Australia are in the Eurovision Song Contest.......

[InsaneApache]

Oh noes the likkle dicky birds will all die if we leave!

https://twitter.com/David_Cameron/st...34630462509057

The comments below are hilarious.

[Fragony]

Dear EU the Dutch people dispisse you a well, we generally hate you. You want too much and cost too much and we don't need you

[Beskar]

I think in a way, Brexit is a good thing, as it might actually cause the EU to reform. I don't think the vested self-interest a few politicians have is a good thing, and they are the barriers to the self-determination European people.

It was also clear during David Cameron's circus that he has no interest in actual EU reform.

[Husar]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-10773007

Because the buttered new potato is a liar politician.

Just combine the news with your own statement afterwards...

[InsaneApache]

Just combine the news with your own statement afterwards...

Tell me about it. So far we've had WWIII will break out if we leave, no seriously.

[Husar]

Tell me about it. So far we've had WWIII will break out if we leave, no seriously.

Yeah, well, in another thread a British person said the sovereignty of others is not sacred. I'm not sure if WW3 will break out if the EU reconquers Britain, depends on how the US reacts I guess.
It's perfectly normal though, to be angry when someone says they don't want to be part of your family anymore.

[Husar]

Watching the Michael Gove Sky Interview.....what a mess.

Gove is not substantiating anything and a lot of what he says is anecdotal or just hot air and the moderator is obviously biased and using US banks as credible sources on British interest? Oh and he's obsessed with lists "Make me a list, name 1, name 11!...", it's all very vague.
What surprises me about Gove is that he says leaving the free trade zone of the EU will be okay for Britain and that the EU is a job-destroying machine, but he also said Britain can then enter trade agreements with the US and China. Because those could never siphon jobs away from Britain?

He actually seems to be making a case to integrate the EU in politics only and end free trade.
Limit business, integrate politics, poor people will be better off!

[Gilrandir]

Oh noes the likkle dicky birds will all die if we leave!

You might have misunderstood him. What if he means someone else by "wildlife"?

[Husar]

Now Gove basically says he wants a Chinese Washing machine over a German one but it can't happen unless the UK has a trade deal with China but not with Germany. First of all, why does he not want a British washing machine? How will the Chinese washing machine help British jobs? Is he talking about government jobs for people who test each washing machine for lead paint?

He does have a point about companies abusing tax laws of the EU to avoid paying taxes, but how will a free trade deal with the US not allow US companies to avoid taxes in the UK? How does suggesting a trade deal with the US seem helpful to someone who wants to "take back control" if all trade deals the US enters include private courts where corporations can sue the government? Don't these courts take away control from the people?

Of course Britain can also not enter any trade deals and produce its own washing machines but then you better hope your washing machine won't break until the factories are up...also allows you to save the money to buy them if they were produced by well-paid British workers...
The point being that in every given capitalistic system you will have winners and losers and only delusional people think everybody can be a winner in a competitive economy. If there is no loser, who is paying the winner?

[Greyblades]

I think the point is that as we are a rich consumer nation if the americans or europeans dont want to sell some goods to us on reasonable terms we can just go to the glut of poor 3rd world nations that will want to take our money. As for the rest, it is expected we'd have hard times, but getting rid of the EU is looking to be worth the hassle. Who knows, maybe the shakeup our leaving causes will be so beneficial that we'd want to come back, but I'm not expecting it.

Yeah, well, in another thread a British person said the sovereignty of others is not sacred. I'm not sure if WW3 will break out if the EU reconquers Britain, depends on how the US reacts I guess.
It's perfectly normal though, to be angry when someone says they don't want to be part of your family anymore.

I was talking about nations and what I actually said was "I do not consider thier soverignty on its own sacred" Considering your third sentance, and the fact that you arent advocating giving countries to every german who doesnt want to be part of the fatherland for the hell of it, I would think you agree.

[Husar]

I was talking about nations and what I actually said was "I do not consider thier soverignty on its own sacred" Considering your third sentance, and the fact that you arent advocating giving countries to every german who doesnt want to be part of the fatherland for the hell of it, I would think you agree.

Transvaal was part of the British fatherland? Interesting perspective, especially since Britain was always part of the European fatherland...

[InsaneApache]

“Let’s be frank, Britain is an amazing country. We’ve got the fifth biggest economy in the world. We’re a top-10 manufacturer. We’ve got incredibly strong financial services. The world wants to come and do business here. Look at the record of inward investment. Look at the leaders beating the path to our door to come and see what’s happening with this great country’s economy. The argument isn’t whether Britain could survive outside the EU. Of course it could.”

Buttered New Potato.

[Greyblades]

Transvaal was part of the British fatherland? Interesting perspective, especially since Britain was always part of the European fatherland...

Well there were more Britons than boers in it!

Seriously, if you were to live by the maxim that a nations sovereignty is a sacred right then you would have to parcel land off to every fritz, hans and albert that asks for it in the name of any national identity tehy can think of. My understanding is that germany has a lot of former nations that would leave every time there is a dispute if it was that easy.

When it comes to soverignty undiluted by additional humanitarian or representative concerns it reverts to might makes right, how much you are willing to fight to have the flag above your head your colour and how much adversity you are willing to suffer.

Indepenance is genrally a means not an end, not a cause people fight for its own sake.

[Husar]

Well there were more Britons than boers in it!

There were also more Russians than Ukrainians in Crimea and Eastern Ukraine...
And more Native Americans than British in America...
And more Palestinians than Jews in Palestine...

As for leaving a sovereign nation, IIRC your argument was that they were afraid to be incorporated/conquered, not that they were already part and wanted to secede. That's a different starting point, isn't it?

The UK is already part of the EU, should the EU force the UK to stay using violent means if necessary because one can't just let anyone leave a union to do their own thing?

If the referendum is close, one can even say that there are a lot of EU citizens in there and we need to make sure they're not oppressed by the nasty British separatist rebels.

[Pannonian]

There were also more Russians than Ukrainians in Crimea and Eastern Ukraine...
And more Native Americans than British in America...
And more Palestinians than Jews in Palestine...

As for leaving a sovereign nation, IIRC your argument was that they were afraid to be incorporated/conquered, not that they were already part and wanted to secede. That's a different starting point, isn't it?

The UK is already part of the EU, should the EU force the UK to stay using violent means if necessary because one can't just let anyone leave a union to do their own thing?

If the referendum is close, one can even say that there are a lot of EU citizens in there and we need to make sure they're not oppressed by the nasty British separatist rebels.

I'm voting to stay, but be careful of your accusations. The Brexit boys have some real grievances against the stay campaign, that you're making light of.

[InsaneApache]

I'm voting to stay, but be careful of your accusations. The Brexit boys have some real grievances against the stay campaign, that you're making light of.

Aye with friends like the EU, who needs enemies?

[Pannonian]

Aye with friends like the EU, who needs enemies?

There could be worse. We English weren't too happy either when the Scots voted on independence. Similar arguments exist in both cases, and there is certainly no moral superiority for one union whilst favouring exit from the other.

[Slyspy]

The referendum represents an abrogation of their responsibility on the part of our elected representatives while the two cases are made with half-truths spun until it is impossible to judge the reality of the claims. People are making up their minds on a crucial issue in an atmosphere of confusion and ignorance in which passion counts for more than fact.

This is no way to run a country.

[Greyblades]

Yes, which is why we have a representary democracy and not a direct one. Blame the Scots for setting the precident.

There were also more Russians than Ukrainians in Crimea and Eastern Ukraine...
And more Native Americans than British in America...
And more Palestinians than Jews in Palestine...

I was joking, the british didnt use them it to excuse annexing transvaal, they used them invading the cape colony to do that.

As for leaving a sovereign nation, IIRC your argument was that they were afraid to be incorporated/conquered, not that they were already part and wanted to secede. That's a different starting point, isn't it?

Yes. Hence why I'm arguing with gilrandir in the other thread over that comparison.

The UK is already part of the EU, should the EU force the UK to stay using violent means if necessary because one can't just let anyone leave a union to do their own thing?

The EU isnt a nation state (yet) despite its pretentions continued membership is determined as entirely voluntary, if that were to change and you did try to keep people by force, well, I hope you have a lot of force because there will suddenly be a lot more nations trying to leave.

If the referendum is close, one can even say that there are a lot of EU citizens in there and we need to make sure they're not oppressed by the nasty British separatist rebels.

Maybe when we start denying them voting rights, or start landing troops in normandy... again.

[Pannonian]

Yes, which is why we have a representary democracy and not a direct one. Blame the Scots for setting the precident.

I was joking, the british didnt use them it to excuse annexing transvaal, they used them invading the cape colony to do that.

Yes. Hence why I'm arguing with gilrandir in the other thread over that comparison.

The EU isnt a nation state (yet) despite its pretentions continued membership is determined as entirely voluntary, if that were to change and you did try to keep people by force, well, I hope you have a lot of force because there will suddenly be a lot more nations trying to leave.

Maybe when we start denying them voting rights, or start landing troops in normandy... again.

There's a statue of a bloke on a horse in Montreuil sur Mer, probably better known nowadays as the town where Jean Valjean was mayor, that commemorates when Germany tried to incorporate France into their empire. The Germans took exception to him in 1940 and melted him down, but it was recast after they got kicked back out of France.

[Husar]

The Brexit boys have some real grievances against the stay campaign, that you're making light of.

Serious question as that expression is rather new to me. Does it mean:

a) I'm taking it too lightly and it is a serious issue

or

b) I'm shining a light on something I may not want in the open (and may attract unwanted attention)

???

I can see both interpretations work.

[Gilrandir]

There were also more Russians than Ukrainians in Crimea and Eastern Ukraine...

The latter is wrong. Ukrainians dominate in any region except Crimea (yellow is for Ukrainians):



Perhaps you meant Russian speakers?

People are making up their minds on a crucial issue in an atmosphere of confusion and ignorance in which passion counts for more than fact.

This is no way to run a country.

This is the usual way with referenda and running countries.

[Pannonian]

Serious question as that expression is rather new to me. Does it mean:

a) I'm taking it too lightly and it is a serious issue

or

b) I'm shining a light on something I may not want in the open (and may attract unwanted attention)

???

I can see both interpretations work.

Treating such a proposition lightly, as if making fun of. Certain Europeans have rather more rights in the UK than is reasonable (more than UK citizens have in their country). If anyone seriously pushes the argument that you're proposing, then I'd support redressing that issue. And you know what, if that happens, people like yourself would blame the UK for acting to redress the balance, rather than people like yourself for drawing attention to that imbalance in the first place. It's always the case, that people like yourself like putting yourselves on a moral pedestal, whilst never taking responsibility for the consequences of your words.

[Husar]

Treating such a proposition lightly, as if making fun of. Certain Europeans have rather more rights in the UK than is reasonable (more than UK citizens have in their country). If anyone seriously pushes the argument that you're proposing, then I'd support redressing that issue. And you know what, if that happens, people like yourself would blame the UK for acting to redress the balance, rather than people like yourself for drawing attention to that imbalance in the first place. It's always the case, that people like yourself like putting yourselves on a moral pedestal, whilst never taking responsibility for the consequences of your words.

Myself thinks that yourself knows a lot more about myself than myself does, but thank yourself for the explanation.

The latter is wrong. Ukrainians dominate in any region except Crimea (yellow is for Ukrainians):



Perhaps you meant Russian speakers?

I thought so but just didn't care enough as the point stands either way.
Or maybe I should say: Not according to RT...

[Gilrandir]

Certain Europeans have rather more rights in the UK than is reasonable (more than UK citizens have in their country).

It makes sense. The British already dwarf even powers-that-be:
http://www.lindaikejisblog.com/2016/...lande-and.html

[InsaneApache]

It makes sense. The British already dwarf even powers-that-be:
http://www.lindaikejisblog.com/2016/...lande-and.html

Except one of them was bought without taxpayers money. Talk about apples and oranges!