Org Promotion

[Axalon]

Just for information, this is what people who visit the Org are accessing (since Jan 2016):

In so many words… That statement and the numbers it presents are severely misleading, deceptive even. I will show and explain some of the how and why that is… I’ll use my own stuff - Redux - as that is the only thing I can get solid statistics on. There are no proof that the massive discrepancy it shows will go across the board - but - it is highly unlikely to be confined or limited to Redux only. I find that hard to believe and very unrealistic. Now, here are the actual and accurate stats on Redux’s top 5 threads in 2016, and its views/visitors, in reality…

Top 5 visited RX-threads: 2016… Thus far...

1. MTW-Redux general 17095 views
2. Redux Debug-Area... 7512 views
3. Redux Install Emergency! 2448 views
4. Redux & W7... 1916 views
5. Redux Battle & Tactics 1907 views

That should make a grand total of: 30878 views

So the reality is that Redux have some 30878 views in 2016 so far, and that would place it 4th most popular place at the Org to visit (according to that staff-list), this measuring ONLY the top 5 threads there. I have not even included the 1079 views officially listed… Overall, I find very hard to believe that Redux is the 4th most popular place to visit on this site. - “…, this is what people who visit the Org are accessing (since Jan 2016):" The hell it is… The screens in spoiler below puts that staff-claim to ridiculous shame…

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

First screen shows the views as it were the 1st Jan 2016... And the second show the numbers for 16th Sep 2016... Do the math...

I have not even begun to comment on the different aspects and traits of TW- and Mod-related discussions Vs. “News & current events”-discussions and how the nature of the two functions radically different or that they (typically) generate and operate highly dissimilar circumstances. For instance, “News & current events” typically generates more fleeting buzz and posts while TW/mod-related topics usually have (fewer posts and) a longevity that essentially and routinely outclass and outlast anything that most “News & current events”-discussions can ever hope to muster. A TW- or Mod-topic can be around and remain relevant for years and years – no such thing ever happened in any “News & current events”-discussion, now have it? Things like that the presented staff-numbers simply fail to consider, as the process of determining and collecting of them have no room for it, it simply ignores it. Its deeply flawed. As a result it is creating a very skewed, unreliable and untrue "representation" of activity/traffic/views that is hardly viable because of the fact. And if staff was honest and serious about all this, they would know this already, and be open about it as the numbers where presented here… This did not happen here, now did it?

And there is more, such as the relevance of “views per post”-indications etc. but that stuff will have wait as I don’t have the time to go further into all this at this point. Suffice to say there is a lot that can be said here about those staff-numbers and on good grounds too. Anyways, I’ll finish this post by re-posting a previous remark of mine that seems highly fitting here as well..

In reality we have 2 out of 7 sections on the index that between themselves somehow deals in some 10-11 TW-games (and some of that TW-marketing-ploy-stuff too. Hi Arena!), and 1 section that deals in hosted major mods/alterations, for ALL TW-games, and 1 section that deals in ALL abandoned previously hosted mods, this for ALL TW-games. At the same time, we have three full sections dedicated for stuff that is not TW-related, to deal with god knows what. 3 full sections on the index… All TW-games got 2… All TW-Mods/alterations this including all the abandoned ones, got 2… ALL side-stuff, off-topic, community-blabla, all non-TW things get 3! That is the reality here...

I have zero problems with all that off-topic, non-TW, community-stuff as such - we can totally keep that around (for all those who wants that). What I do have problems with, is how all that is being elevated to the supposed primary focus, purpose and attraction of this site. This while TW in general, and it the individual TW-games in particular, are being clearly demoted to a near side-show status. It is utterly screwed up, especially for a site that is supposed to be dealing in TW-games, and who built its name and brand by dealing in TW-games - not the latest TW-game, not some off-topic fleeting blabla. It WAS a fan-site for TW-enthusiasts in general and its micro-communities around each game in particular. That is what this place used to be about. That is what this site should still be about, and this site should provide the infrastructure and areas for it. Yet it don’t. As it used to do, in the past, on the index, and beyond. Screw that there are more TW-games released now, its no real excuse. The size of the index should not get to dictate who is to feel welcome here, or be an excuse as to dismantle the rational and natural coverage of TW-games - as has been essentially the case. Or dictate what we all are supposed to be interested in - let us decide that for ourselves. Let us tailor the index how we like and see fit, individually, do not try to force us to use it in your certain preferred damned way...

- A

[edyzmedieval]

For the most part I think we should focus on how we can get all of those viewers to come here, stay and post, which is what we are not really doing at this moment.

There's a lot of viewers, a lot of lurkers... but not many posters. Which is what hampers the Org.

Question - how can we invite CA to visit this place again?

[Crandar]

For the most part I think we should focus on how we can get all of those viewers to come here, stay and post, which is what we are not really doing at this moment.

I think that most of these guys are spammer wannabes who try to log in and advertise their stuff.

I would love to figure out how to get CA back here and have them stay. I think the biggest factor for them leaving after we got them back was that the person who was our liaison with them went to a different company so the connection was severed. Then CA never bothered to connect with us again because we just were not on their radar as a large fansite anymore. When I pop on over to the TW reddit page, most of the community engagement by CA occurs within the discussions (usually CA-related discussions but thats to be expected I guess). So I think to get CA back we need to have active discussions going on. That would be the first step in my opinion.

Why CA left the first time? Anyway, CA first and foremost needs traffic, they even stopped posting in twc anymore, so I don't think .org has much of a chance. I think only reddit is visited by CA reps. CA posts in other forums, like .org or obscure french strategy sites only when they have a big announcement to make, like the official presentation of a new title. Probably they also cut down their resources, Will and Trish are gone and the new guys will focus on other media, like youtube.

[edyzmedieval]

There's still a considerable amount of people who lurk daily, all spammers aside. Getting them to log on and start posting and asking questions, and perhaps join mods, would definitely help both sides.

[Axalon]

The list was of threads posted in 2016, not threads that exist in 2016...

Missing the point… It was not presented as such (see post:25) and that is the first point (out of several) I made in my previous post. It was not presented as such and I reacted to that very circumstance because its hardly honest to present it as something completely different – in this case as general, representative and solid statistics. It is clearly nothing of the sort, and thus it (the post) is/was obviously misleading folks, by definition. Besides, even if it had been presented as you would have liked – as 2016-threads only, and only the views that such threads generates – it still struggles with serious relevancy-issues regardless. After all, 2016-threads are hardly alone in generating traffic/views on a site in 2016 (even this one) – and as long as that is a fact, ignoring everything else beyond that limitation hardly makes the results of such an approach any more relevant or representative, now does it? It actually makes it less relevant and representative, if anything. One would think this is obvious. The “2016-threads only” method will thus only yield highly skewed, misleading and flat out impractical results due to the fact. It clearly won’t represent reality well enough somehow, and thus it becomes irrelevant as it has then lost its basic function and meaning here. "Partial reality" don't do us much good here, now does it?

What would be the point of counting visits from 2008 etc. to see which sections are currently being visited the most?

I don’t know… I have not suggested such thing (see my previous post) – you did (right here). Feel free to triple check that all day if you want too, its mentioned about zilch times in all my posts here.

Therother already explained that it is an approximation because the forum does not differentiate views by year, so if you have a thread from 2008 that has 17000 views, it could be that 10000 are from 2008 and 200 from 2016 or it could be the other way around. That's why he only included threads posted in 2016 because they cannot possibly have views from 2008 since vB does not support time travel for threads in the current version.

Is this a bad joke? I am well aware of what and when Therother have explained his intentions and motives here. Its thanks to him that I got a chance to actually evaluate the staff traffic-list seriously in the first place. Regardless, you post as if the screens I forwarded does not exist or that any reference to these never existed in my post (they are fully visible in their entirety, using the Chrome-browser for instance). You have thus decided to actively ignore the very material that actually proves and makes another significant point I was making here. The screens of post: 30 are crystal clear in their numbers and in the statistics they deliver. They leave no doubts about views generated in 2016 what so ever (up to 16th sep) in that specific area of the site, or about the enormous discrepancy that they (the screens) illustrate compared with the presented traffic/views-list by staff. Once you actually bother to look at those screens you can see that as well. It’s a question of basic maths. They even have timestamps, 1st Jan and 16th Sep, 2016. It can hardly get any much clearer, or more obvious, then that. The numbers are in contrast actually accurate for this specific case (Redux) and (its) area - and you can triple check that all day if you want too.

If the staff don’t have such solid statistics for the site, then they don't have solid statistics for the site, as simple as that – act accordingly and seriously about it. Don't conjure up some half-ass "solution" that won't work anyways (as explained above) and then try to sell that to us as reliable statistics to compensate for the void of actual solid statistics here, because that is both dishonest and stupid. And we all know it. Either you learn from this obvious screw up and improve on your practices so it won't happen again - or you continue to screw up some more on this note, again and again - and you(/staff) will look needlessly ridiculous and unserious in the process. Understand?

Before you call other people stupid or liars you may want to check whether the reality you like to talk about is actually real...

First of all, at least try to be accurate for a change... Secondly, don’t try to be witty here, it doesn't agree with you. Thirdly, its hardly my fault if people decide to act stupid or dishonest - very especially so while representing the site in general (on these boards, regardless of context). But, it certainly is my (and everyone else's) fault if I (/we) don’t point that out whenever it does happen in any official or formal capacity. Assuming here, that I (/we) actually do want to help and improve the site and the staff that serves it somehow. Of course, I (/we) could do nothing and pretend its raining (as most people seem to do here), but do I then really help the site? Nope, I (/we) do not…

Lastly, you are hardly in a position to tell me about handling reality, much unlike yourself I have actually dealt with what you have posted here (all of it) and not some junk I made up in your name. The fact that you have done this (here) as a member of staff certainly isn’t doing much for the image of this site, or its staff at large, or you personally for that matter. In short, its annoying, its rude, its stupid and it’s a waste of time for all (yup, you too).

Get my drift?

- A

[Axalon]

For the most part I think we should focus on how we can get all of those viewers to come here, stay and post, which is what we are not really doing at this moment.

Not entirely true… I certainly tried thus far to enable/advocate a drastic change on the index as that clearly is major player in that equation. After all, the index is the first thing a visitor sees, and its the very first thing (s)he will react too as well and it will be a major factor for sticking around as well, I would imagine. As long as staff refuse to change the index, and it continues to look like this, (s)he will soon leave for TWC most likely, as that index simply outclass the Org in how it deals with all TW-games (except for MTW1 and STW1). Thus the current index basically disables this site to actually compete effectively because of it - due to the generally inferior treatment and coverage of TW-games on the index (as is).

Let me illustrate this clearly... We get a big fat monitor… On it, we open up a page of the Org-index and a page of the TWC-index on the monitor – side by side. Now we call in “visitor X” who has no prior relation to either site, and who’s fave TW-game happens to be - say MTW2 (or whatever) - and have her seated in front of the monitor. Now we ask her “which of these two places will you go? To get your average MTW2-info and fix? …The site that offers its own dedicated section for this game, and some 5 sub-sections, directly visible on the index (the TWC)? Or will you go for the site with no such dedicated section for this game and 1 sub-section for it, directly visible on the index (the Org)? Which one would you prefer to go to? You have can’t have both.” …At a minimum, 9 out of 10 times it will be TWC for the win. BECAUSE of the index and how it is designed. That is why the index is important and that is why it must change into something that actually can compete with other sites (like the TWC). That is why each TW-game need its own sections. As long as this staff and site-management refuse to do that index-change, this site will not be able to compete effectively – that means less active and interested visitors here, thus posts by extension. As simple as that.

We have now had and tried this (damned) index for some 4+ years and it has done little else but consistently damaged this site ever since. People have obviously left this place because of it and many other reasons. The index (and its TW-coverage) has too change. If not the index is changed, essentially all other stuff proposed here will probably soon lose much/most of its intended effect and meaning.

There's a lot of viewers, a lot of lurkers... but not many posters. Which is what hampers the Org.

Agreed...

Question - how can we invite CA to visit this place again?

Forget CA... Those guys are essentially irrelevant these days anyhow (much by their own handiwork and policies), and they obviously don't care about the TW-communities as they probably don't believe there are much money or value in it - had they actually cared about this place somehow, then they would have showed that, long time ago. And they have not. So bothering with the CA is a dead end (most likely). Don't waste precious resources or manpower on that, surely it can be used to better things then that. Just saying...

- A

[edyzmedieval]

Bringing CA back would help us in the way that, although it might not bring back a ton of members, it's important to be there, because inevitably people will be interested.

I do propose contacting CA with a specific task - have their community team do a Rally Point on the community.

[Husar]

Get my drift?

Sorry, no.
Should have made yourself clearer instead of intentionally misleading me I guess.

[Husar]

In so many words… That statement and the numbers it presents are severely misleading, deceptive even. I will show and explain some of the how and why that is… I’ll use my own stuff - Redux - as that is the only thing I can get solid statistics on. There are no proof that the massive discrepancy it shows will go across the board - but - it is highly unlikely to be confined or limited to Redux only. I find that hard to believe and very unrealistic. Now, here are the actual and accurate stats on Redux’s top 5 threads in 2016, and its views/visitors, in reality…

Top 5 visited RX-threads: 2016… Thus far...

1. MTW-Redux general 17095 views
2. Redux Debug-Area... 7512 views
3. Redux Install Emergency! 2448 views
4. Redux & W7... 1916 views
5. Redux Battle & Tactics 1907 views

That should make a grand total of: 30878 views

So the reality is that Redux have some 30878 views in 2016 so far, and that would place it 4th most popular place at the Org to visit (according to that staff-list), this measuring ONLY the top 5 threads there. I have not even included the 1079 views officially listed… Overall, I find very hard to believe that Redux is the 4th most popular place to visit on this site. - “…, this is what people who visit the Org are accessing (since Jan 2016):" The hell it is… The screens in spoiler below puts that staff-claim to ridiculous shame…

The list was of threads posted in 2016, not threads that exist in 2016...

What would be the point of counting visits from 2008 etc. to see which sections are currently being visited the most?

Therother already explained that it is an approximation because the forum does not differentiate views by year, so if you have a thread from 2008 that has 17000 views, it could be that 10000 are from 2008 and 200 from 2016 or it could be the other way around. That's why he only included threads posted in 2016 because they cannot possibly have views from 2008 since vB does not support time travel for threads in the current version.

Before you call other people stupid or liars you may want to check whether the reality you like to talk about is actually real...

[edyzmedieval]

Let us not delve into such things, let us focus on how we can improve the Org.

I reiterate my question - how can we bring back CA over here? I understood that they came, they left, came back, and left again - but it is important, at least as a first step, to have announcements posted by CA over here as well.

[Hooahguy]

I would love to figure out how to get CA back here and have them stay. I think the biggest factor for them leaving after we got them back was that the person who was our liaison with them went to a different company so the connection was severed. Then CA never bothered to connect with us again because we just were not on their radar as a large fansite anymore. When I pop on over to the TW reddit page, most of the community engagement by CA occurs within the discussions (usually CA-related discussions but thats to be expected I guess). So I think to get CA back we need to have active discussions going on. That would be the first step in my opinion.

[edyzmedieval]

Correct, and I agree with the points you presented above, Hooah.

What I would like to come up with is the fact that simply having them around, at least posting a thread once a month, or posting at least their announcements over here, would bring back discussion as well and make the Org more active.

It takes - 3 minutes? - to post a thread. Their simple presence would help.

[Hooahguy]

That is certainly true, but unfortunately we cannot force CA to do anything. I will try to reach out again and see what I can do.