XCOM Mafia [Concluded]

[El Barto]

Csargo, I am beginning to think that you use such poorly constructed English in order to

Who are scum and who are not?

Novice and I are and El Barto is not?

I am no mafioso. I followed you so I think that you are not either (provisionally, of course). Novice… I wouldn't be that sorry to lose him, not least because having someone perennially delegating his votes isn't the best option (this is the MU me coming to the surface).

You and novice? Why?

Csargo, Barto, DP, Sooh, and I suppose Manasi are all in a murky category that isn't neutral but holds a fluidity of positives and negatives. I could defend these people strongly, or I could vote to lynch them. In absolute terms however, right now I want to thunderdome Novice-Pizza, or just lynch General Champerchief and save the Dome for tomorrow.

OK, why novice-pizza, why General Champerchief? You might convince me on any at this point.

[Sooh]

Csargo, I am beginning to think that you use such poorly constructed English in order to

Did this sentence have an ending?

[Csargo]

Csargo, I am beginning to think that you use such poorly constructed English in order to

[Montmorency]

Csargo, I am beginning to think that you use such poorly constructed English in order to

I am no mafioso. I followed you so I think that you are not either (provisionally, of course). Novice… I wouldn't be that sorry to lose him, not least because having someone perennially delegating his votes isn't the best option (this is the MU me coming to the surface).

OK, why novice-pizza, why General Champerchief? You might convince me on any at this point.

The case is not bad, and gives information. I want to see Pizza get scum, because if he does then at this point its less likely to be bussing than it would be at a future round. Champ was a decent enough basic lynch, and GH's initial questions seemed like a facade to convey the impression of a townie asking for a briefing, the way they were constructed.

[GeneralHankerchief]

The case is not bad, and gives information. I want to see Pizza get scum, because if he does then at this point its less likely to be bussing than it would be at a future round. Champ was a decent enough basic lynch, and GH's initial questions seemed like a facade to convey the impression of a townie asking for a briefing, the way they were constructed.

How on earth do you get that out of my entry posts? Please use specifics.

[Montmorency]

How on earth do you get that out of my entry posts? Please use specifics.

Your SoD posts, then:

Hey guys.

Haven't read a thing, probably won't before tomorrow. Can I get a quick summary?

Asks for summary.

Without having read a single thing, all these reads [from Fredwood on Manasi, Sooh, Montmorency, Barto, and Winston] appear to check out in terms of people acting in line with expectations.

Already establishing commentary on reads.

Jowy flipped town I take it?

Who else died?

This third post is what really struck me as a faux-town thing to say.

No nightkill?

We get any leads from that?

blaring sirens

This sounds like you don't want to appear to be fishing, so you broach it more obliquely.

I said I haven't read a thing in the first post I made after subbing in. I meant what I said.

But congrats, you get my first townread of the game.

Again, faux-town excuse, but in reality town GH wouldn't skip reading the basic game-setup and rule posts from the host, and he wouldn't make light of doing so in the way you did.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Your SoD posts, then:



Asks for summary.



Already establishing commentary on reads.



This third post is what really struck me as a faux-town thing to say.



blaring sirens

This sounds like you don't want to appear to be fishing, so you broach it more obliquely.



Again, faux-town excuse, but in reality town GH wouldn't skip reading the basic game-setup and rule posts from the host, and he wouldn't make light of doing so in the way you did.

LITERALLY NONE OF THIS IS SCUMMY.

Did Champ beat both you and Csargo over the heads or something?

[Logic]

Your SoD posts, then:



Asks for summary.



Already establishing commentary on reads.



This third post is what really struck me as a faux-town thing to say.



blaring sirens

This sounds like you don't want to appear to be fishing, so you broach it more obliquely.



Again, faux-town excuse, but in reality town GH wouldn't skip reading the basic game-setup and rule posts from the host, and he wouldn't make light of doing so in the way you did.

Blaring sirens, and yet you don't move your vote? Are you being overly dramatic intentionally?

[El Barto]

Blaring sirens, and yet you don't move your vote? Are you being overly dramatic intentionally?

Montmorency, of all people? Never, I say, in a thousand years!

[Logic]

Montmorency, of all people? Never, I say, in a thousand years!

I don't know him well enough to make that call.

I can't criticize what he finds scummy, but the degree of suspicion does not match his actions. No vote, no call to arms, nothing of the sort.

Granted, I don't think Champ/GH has given us enough to work with.

[Montmorency]

Blaring sirens, and yet you don't move your vote? Are you being overly dramatic intentionally?

Nope.

1. Pizza-novice more important
2. I want Pizza's input.
3. GH should receive the courtesy of being permitted to catch up.

[Logic]

Nope.

1. Pizza-novice more important
2. I want Pizza's input.
3. GH should receive the courtesy of being permitted to catch up.

Cross posting:

Fair on all three points, but I think Item 1 is less significant than the other 2.

[El Barto]

Nope.

1. Pizza-novice more important
2. I want Pizza's input.
3. GH should receive the courtesy of being permitted to catch up.

unvote

and then

vote: novice

If anything, we'll force atpg to look at others tomorrow.

[novice]

Nope.

1. Pizza-novice more important
2. I want Pizza's input.
3. GH should receive the courtesy of being permitted to catch up.

Okay at least he recanted the suggested postponement of the thunderdome.
I can understand the call for a thunderdome too from a townie perspective, although of course scum would love it too. One thing's for sure, scum would prefer Pizza to lose the thunderdome, and go for a 2-for-1.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Here's Csargo's progression on Monty (with a slice of Monty and myself) from the time I subbed in until now:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Monty thinks scum holstered.

Congrats, you played yourself. 1st townread for Monty all game. That's not a good start.

The first two posts are already problematic. The first post is in response to my asking if there were any leads on there not being a kill on N1, and Csargo volunteered the information saying Monty thought scum holstered without further commentary, which to me implies Csargo has some degree of belief/trust towards that information.

But in the second post, he says my giving a townread of Monty is a bad sign, implying that Csargo is scumreading him. This further continues later on:

You can't count yourself.

Who else townread you?

----

The argument withers on the vine until we cut to later on, in which Monty makes an analysis post:

This has been the first game in a while where No Lynch was permitted.

If I holstered a kill, where did the Mafia kill go? Where did your suggested protection go? Maybe you attacked Fredwood and someone protected him? Or as I mentioned, someone was blocked? Jailed? Bulletproof vests? There are many possibilities, and it's interesting which ones you avoid.



Would I really? Tunneling Pizza from D1 is not just a bad idea for Town, it's a good way to get nightkilled whether or not Pizza is scum, and a good way to have Pizza lynch you fast, directly or indirectly. Maybe I was just demoralized by my read: if I immediately scum-read scum last game and couldn't do anything with it, what can I hope to achieve against scum Pizza now?



Auto can't be mostly cleared in event of novice scum with such an early vote, as you know he is prone to leaving votes like that even if it puts partners at risk without him around to change it; you did the same at least once. BSmith should be nuller. GH lynch should be sooner. DP may be a bit lower, Csargo considerably so. I should be town overall. Otherwise endorse these leans.



It does strike me that novice has made more snipes than connections.
As an aside, since novice's vote onto Csargo, third on wagon, precipitated the final EOD flurry, who would you say he was trying to save? You liked Barto there, and shouldn't be Csargo unless superbussing to save yet another partner, and Jowy flipped town - so what was novice doing? Your logical conclusion would be that Sooh is novice's partner and he moved to sve her, right? And since you mentioned Champ crossposting Barto for both voting Jowy, your alternative in case of novice town would be that Chamop was trying to save partner Csargo, right? A lot of your D1 activity analysis rides on the assumption that Csargo is town. So I'm willing to see clarification by lynching novice. And the case is neat, I guess.

Let's see who you really are, Pizza.

Vote: novice

(Note that vote may be subject to change onto Pizza at any time or administrator's discretion.)

Only people today I will consider voting: Novice Pizza GH, also several others (!)

It's a decent post, but certainly in Monty's scum range, and nothing that I'd consider alignment-indicative without having read. However, Csargo apparently considers it enough to treat it as worth him doing a full 180 on Monty:

I like Monty's post. Feels good.

He clarifies this later on to me.

I really want to vote GH at this point, which conflicts with my gutread of Champ, conundrum.

Why? Have my myriad contributions since I subbed in been scummy enough to get you to reverse course? IIRC the only thing that didn't sit well with you was my townread of Monty - so why not vote Monty instead?

Also I'm probably just going to catch up over the night phase, but I'll try to get in the current flow of things in the meantime.

This is also concerning.

Conclusion: Csargo's progressions on Monty are all over the map and have some pretty shaky jumps. I don't see them coming from town.

[GeneralHankerchief]

It's also worth noting that despite Csargo's jumpy progression on Monty, his stance on me remains rock solid, despite the majority of my time in the thread being engaging with Monty - so you think that would change a bit.

[novice]

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053752896

Monty calls GH scum for something very wifom'y.

[novice]

The case is not bad, and gives information.

The case was (well, is) classic Pizza hot air. I think he really wanted to prove himself so he gambled on a hunch and activated spin mode.

[novice]

Novice… I wouldn't be that sorry to lose him, not least because having someone perennially delegating his votes isn't the best option (this is the MU me coming to the surface).

That's pretty uncharitable.