Vitiate Man.
History repeats the old conceits
The glib replies, the same defeats
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
I don't think the wax figurines would last long in the rain and wind outside.
And being in a museum doesn't count as being praised in public.
![]()
![]()
"Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu
Days since the Apocalypse began
"We are living in space-age times but there's too many of us thinking with stone-age minds" | How to spot a Humanist
"Men of Quality do not fear Equality." | "Belief doesn't change facts. Facts, if you are reasonable, should change your beliefs."
The .Org's MTW Reference Guide Wiki - now taking comments, corrections, suggestions, and submissions
If I werent playing games Id be killing small animals at a higher rate than I am now - SFTS
Si je n'étais pas jouer à des jeux que je serais mort de petits animaux à un taux plus élevé que je suis maintenant - Louis VI The Fat
"Why do you hate the extremely limited Spartan version of freedom?" - Lemur
http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=72360
"Now, therefore, be it known that I, Andrew Johnson President of the United States, by virtue of the power and authority in me vested by the Constitution and in the name of the sovereign people of the United States, do hereby proclaim and declare unconditionally and without reservation, to all and to every person who, directly or indirectly, participated in the late insurrection or rebellion a full pardon and amnesty for the offense of treason against the United States or of adhering to their enemies during the late civil war, with restoration of all rights, privileges, and immunities under the Constitution and the laws which have been made in pursuance thereof."
Just as President Obama pardoned men who are now no longer criminals, so all Confederates were pardoned "unconditionally and without reservation" and were no longer traitors. After the Civil War, the widows, orphans and survivors of Confederate soldiers were allowed to decorate the graves of the fallen and yes, build statues to them. The statues do not honor traitors, because the men were pardoned.
About 20% of the Confederate Army owned slaves. However, some of the men who fought for the Union owned slaves, too. Over the previous centuries, African rulers sold prisoners of war, criminals and undesirables into slavery. Arab slavers sold them to Europeans who brought them to the Americas. The economy of much of the world was based on the slave trade.
So, statues were built for pardoned men out of love and respect from family and admirers, not to honor traitors. I hate slavery in all of its forms and we all most certainly should. However, blind hatred makes us "useful idiots" to groups that are trying to create one-issue voters. In science, the saying goes that we can see farther because we stand on the shoulders of those who came before us. This should apply to our history as well. On Grant's tomb are the words, "Let us have Peace".
Sometimes good people must kill bad people to protect the rest of the people.
As usual one might ask though: And what about their victims?
Obama mostly pardoned people who got really long sentences for owning a few grams of Marihuana AFAIK, that's a bit different from being a slave owner and being willing to kill others to be able to stay a slave owner.
Besides, your last sentence there is not necessarily correct. Someone does not stop being a traitor the moment they are pardoned, the pardoning means they are no longer prosecuted for their treason. If they were no traitors, they couldn't have been pardoned for treason in the first place.
Their being pardoned also doesn't mean the victims of their crimes have to just shut up and take it when their minions or families want to praise them for their crimes.
Except that this type of chattel slavery was pretty new and a particularly nasty form of slavery compared to the forms that had been around before:
http://www.discoveringbristol.org.uk...frica-slavery/
And the fact that others participated in it for profit does not make it better, it just adds to the depravity.Slavery existed in Africa, but it was not the same type of slavery that the Europeans introduced. The European form was called chattel slavery. A chattel slave is a piece of property, with no rights. Slavery within Africa was different. A slave might be enslaved in order to pay off a debt or pay for a crime. Slaves in Africa lost the protection of their family and their place in society through enslavement. But eventually they or their children might become part of their master’s family and become free. This was unlike chattel slavery, in which enslaved Africans were slaves for life, as were their children and grandchildren.
Cry me a river, by that logic we can also build statues for the men who hid children in their cellars as sex toys because their wives loved them, too.![]()
![]()
![]()
"Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu
That's not how a pardon works. To accept a pardon is to accept the charges associated with it. The pardon serves only to forgive or commute the penalties levied in connection with the offense.
If someone is pardoned for murder, it most definitely means they are still a murderer.
What do you think it serves to list all these irrelevancies? Do you imagine it vindicates the Confederacy somehow? It does not.About 20% of the Confederate Army owned slaves. However, some of the men who fought for the Union owned slaves, too. Over the previous centuries, African rulers sold prisoners of war, criminals and undesirables into slavery. Arab slavers sold them to Europeans who brought them to the Americas. The economy of much of the world was based on the slave trade.
Again, you're throwing together several irrelevant points that do not support any coherent argument; this is the hostile rhetoric of muddying the water.So, statues were built for pardoned men out of love and respect from family and admirers, not to honor traitors. I hate slavery in all of its forms and we all most certainly should. However, blind hatred makes us "useful idiots" to groups that are trying to create one-issue voters. In science, the saying goes that we can see farther because we stand on the shoulders of those who came before us. This should apply to our history as well. On Grant's tomb are the words, "Let us have Peace".
Be careful if you don't want to be taken in bad faith.
Vitiate Man.
History repeats the old conceits
The glib replies, the same defeats
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Initially via twitter. Seems to have gone very viral. @drone
Days since the Apocalypse began
"We are living in space-age times but there's too many of us thinking with stone-age minds" | How to spot a Humanist
"Men of Quality do not fear Equality." | "Belief doesn't change facts. Facts, if you are reasonable, should change your beliefs."
Montmorency, you're posting from the regular presidential pardon discussion, like the one Obama issued. Read the proclamation from Johnson. There is no muddy water here.
Sometimes good people must kill bad people to protect the rest of the people.
Bookmarks