UK Politics Thread

[Montmorency]

Oh dear lord above, you misunderstand the situation entirely!

On a personal level i hold my own values, assiduously seek parties that meet those values, interrogate those parties mercilessly to expose flaws, and constantly reevaluate whether those parties are worthy of my support.

But here, here we do something different: we discuss politics and the values that inform those politics. There would be nothing more tedious than me zelously and earnestly trying to convert you to the 'true' cause. And nothing more tedious for me than you giving me a swivel eyed spiel on why you follow the one true god. So yes, i attempt to get the most out of my hobby by being dispassionate, not least because there is no 'right' answer - just trade offs.

Anyone who tells me that brexit is morally bankrupt is a complete plank, and i would not presume to believe the same in reverse. Saying such would only reveal the utterer as a one dimensional mouthpiece for other peoples ambitions. In which case respecting the value set that informs other peoples choices requires dispassionate discussion .

And a desultory or louche persona is less offenzive that the zealot.

Would you like to continue in explaining how bad i am as a human being?

It's basically insulting. Either you hold no meaningful convictions worth discussion, or you do and you want to preserve your comfort by preemptively insulating yourself.

The offensive part is holding your inevitably tendentious values - which you evidently do take very seriously - and pretending they are beyond challenge because you consider yourself "dispassionate" or because politics is like a "horse race" to you. But the variance in premises and trade-offs is enormous, and the difference in effect is enormous. Politics trades in lives, and it feel as though you want to put value in your values while glibly assuring anyone who disagrees that it's all the same in the end, like a preference in consumer media. You can't have it both ways.

It's easier to respect someone who owns their thumos rather than trolling with it.

This is why you change the ideology with kindness and compassion, and civility.

A little while ago you accused me of being "colder" but perhaps the change in perspective is yours?

In reality, the typically available option is to overpower it. I cannot think of a time in history where kindness, compassion, and civility negotiated social tensions or resolved a crisis (above the individual level).

There is one kernel of truth here though. We are proceeding through a global sacred war for humanity. In any world that averts apocalypse and dystopia, the Right must be eradicated irrevocably. History shows that total war never total, so this is certainly impossible - without the cooperation of many on the Right. In a sense, our fates rest in the hands of people like you.