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Thread: The XYZelensky Affair and the Whole Impeachment Shebang

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    Default Re: The XYZelensky Affair and the Whole Impeachment Shebang

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    Worry when you see a repeal of the two-term limitation pass one of the houses of Congress. All the sturm and drang Trump may care to deliver does not carry with a majority of the electorate, only his rabidly supportive 30%. I have no fears of a civil war or a race war and we are too aware of "wag the dog" conflicts as political tools to be snowed under by that (Note: Monty will likely assert that GWB's administration did just that in 2003 with the poorly reviewed (at best) evidence on Sadam Hussein's efforts at MDW; I would assert that that is one of the reasons WHY that card would be tough to play again right now).
    You don't have to tiptoe around it, it was lies. The Bush administration consciously and deliberately manufactured lies to create a pretext to invade Iraq, which it had wanted to do since before 9/11. This is all well-documented and common knowledge. I mean, it was kind of out there even in 2002/3, but afterwards there were whole Congressional inquiries and everything that brought thousands of pages of evidence to public attention.

    Besides that historical note, I would note that Trump supporters are especially dangerous because they don't need manufactured evidence, they will literally reject the evidence of their eyes and ears on command. Trump can lie about anything he likes and they will literally believe it. See the especially ludicrous spectacle of Trump releasing a smoking gun for modified limited hangout and then shamelessly declaring that it says what it doesn't and doesn't say what it does, before - and after - personally confirming and *repeating* the substance publicly. The more insipid Republicans then go about debasing themselves by perpetually pretending lack of familiarity with the events when pressed for comment. But again they ultimately subordinate themselves to the subset who will support Trump regardless of what he does that they know is wrong. The former are merely evil. It's the larger group slouching through a haze dreaming dreams who are marked most by their troglodytism, represented by bestial converts like Lindsay Graham, who are more frightening for being both evil and stupid, knowing and representing their constituents so very well.

    Though from the perspective of the Republican Party seizing power, being the party of genuinely stupid people hooked on dark soma is a definite inherent weakness. This correlation between malice and stupidity is perhaps our best hope for survival. Force may shit on reason's back, but the weight of the inability to correctly interpret empirical reality must weigh eventually. The trick is to minimize the damage.

    Quote Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name View Post
    This is such insane levels of cowardice masked as caution.

    The dude is clearly strong-arming other countries to influence our election in his favor. You say worry when Congress starts dismantling the Constitution? Jesus man, you might as well ask people to take a day off when the illegals are executed in the streets.
    He's been working the hinges since before he got into office. He has and will continue to do a lot of damage. But if he loses re-election we 'only' have to worry about low-level violence and the institutional damage of an (loudly) unwilling transfer of power in succession. If the guy was smarter and more in step with the Republican Party our prospects would be much bleaker. Imagine what a dedicated propagandist and ideologue like Tucker Carlson could accomplish in office. Thankfully, he is quite uncommonly stupid and irrational for a human being, and as noted above so are many Republicans.

    Quote Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name View Post
    I just understand the road this leads to, and you know where it goes as well.
    He knows what side he's on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    I said it that way because it ain't gonna happen. People are reacting to this asshat as though the system will let him roll over and declare a dictatorship by fiat. Our system, culture, and outlook won't permit such absent a civil war. And if he somehow managed to inspire his yahoo 30% to take up arms they would lose. Instead, he probably loses in November and flitters away into the twitterverse in mid-January 2021.
    Again, cause and symptom - it's the Republican Party we have to worry most about. Not because they will likely back this guy this time around if he wants to seize the republic, but because they will the next one from the start.
    Last edited by Montmorency; 10-07-2019 at 07:31.
    Vitiate Man.

    History repeats the old conceits
    The glib replies, the same defeats


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