In the end we ignored it by not confronting Russia thoroughly enough. We rewarded Putin's provocations.
Anyone can claim anything as a grievance. The US has claimed many grievances against many countries. That a grievance exists doesn't make it credible, legitimate, or productive. But again, it is a huge mistake to think of this war as having arisen out of some grievance against the West. The casus belli for Russian nationalists is much more inward-looking. It's anxiety about the imagined integrity of their "Russian World," not any hostile actions of the European World or the American World.Also, my point here is not to say that NATO or the US actually broke some agreement, you cannot break an agreement which does not exist right, rather my point is to show that there is basis for Russia to have a grievance which contributes to the list of elements constituting as a provocation.
With all due respect, there was no civil war. We can't prevent conflicts in the future if we don't understand their causes and their nature.While I never specifically said that Europe itself (the EU) provoked Russia I think Europe did take part in facilitating the Minsk and Misnk 2 accords, but did nothing thereafter as the Civil War raged in Ukraine.
Why would Putin have allowed Blue Helmets into Donbas? He claimed to be sending Russian soldiers as peacekeepers! Orwell warned us.Yet if we had acted in such an effort, not only would we have saved live but also shown genuine intentions towards peace and stability plus may even have prevented the current War since Russia would have even less Justification or Causus Beli for it.
As I said, peacekeepers don't make peace. Only the armed groups involved, and their leadership, can do that. The United Nations could not have acted without the consent and cooperation of Russia.
The great dilemma of anarchism is, how can one eliminate or repress power without power?If we manage to address Greed and Lust for Power, I think we would eliminate the majority of causes for suffering on this planet.
But it's not a solution, it's a desirable end-state depicting what comes after the solution(s). It's like saying immortality is a solution to death - how is that condition brought about? Everyone wishes for peace and prosperity in the abstract (do you think Putin wants war for its own sake?) but if wishes were ponies, everyone would ride. Gandhi wanted peace, and though he didn't get it he did work for it. Hitler wanted peace too, peace under the Thousand-Year Reich, and we had to deliver peace to him at the barrel of a gun.What matters firstly is if the suggested solution has that value towards solving the intended problem, and, if yes then we should acknowledge that it has the potential to become popular and therefore, thirdly, it only needs to be further shared and proliferated.
So we have to be more sophisticated than just expressing approval of good concepts and cogitate in terms of right and wrong, and cause and effect. What is it that we want, how do we get it, and who is in conflict with our goals?
The reality is that the rhetoric of self-determination with respect to - by now pre-war - Russian-controlled Donbas is only Russian propaganda. The double standard is in only listening to a dictator's side of the story. Putin did not respect the locals' self-determination when he installed military government in Crimea and Donbas, expelled pro-Ukrainian people from their homes, imported Russian colonists, and forcefully kept the Ukrainian government from exercising its sovereignty. The Ukrainian government never violated any group's or region's right to self-determination in this way. The common people of the region, before the confrontation began, did not want to secede from Ukraine. It is only the case that Putin's government and Russian nationalists wanted to grab territory for Russia. Imagine if Napoleon annexed Switzerland in the name of the self-determination of French-speaking peoples; obviously that wouldn't have been the motivation. At least the Austrians and Sudetenland Germans whom Hitler annexed actually did want to join the Reich for the most part. But either way, you can't name anschluss "self-determination," or else we're going to start seeing a whole lot more "self-determination" around the world soon.Finally, does anyone care to say anything about the right to self determination? If we are expected to defend Ukraine's right to self Determination, do you think that Ukraine itself should be also expected to do defend that right for others? How about for its own people who wish to part ways? How about the Russophone population in Donbas?
Now, as a result of sorting and other social effects between Ukrainian and Russian-controlled regions over 8 years, there is actually a significant divergence between the attitudes of the populations - or there was before the war, it's harder to say now. Unsurprisingly, people living under Russian control became more pro-Russian than people living under Ukrainian control. But even so, an honest referendum in even Russian-annexed Donbas would probably choose to remain part of Ukraine. Just because a dictator doesn't like that fact is not a provocation toward him - it should rather be a provocation for every one of us who rejects a world ruled by greed and lust for power!!
https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...e-there-think/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...ublic-opinion/
https://www.zois-berlin.de/en/public...m-2016-to-2019
I've read this book. Two things, and both are important. First, there is zero evidence that American foreign policy in Ukraine is or has ever been some sort of calculated spiteful suppression of Russia's place under the sun. Second, that is not what Brzezinski wrote. THAT IS A LIE - MADE UP. Whoever that Swiss commentator is, they were trying to deceive their readers.I would offer this short read in response to both your replies.
the root causes of the war in ukraine
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Without going back to Ukraine, the ? historical and religious cradle ? of Russia, the root cause of this war traces back to 1997 when Zbigniew Brezinski, the most influential adviser to American presidents for thirty years, published his book ?The Great Chessboard?, in which he explained that the strategic goal of the United States is to seize Ukraine and dismember Russia to break its power in Europe and prevent it from joining Germany. 1997 was also the year in which the first phase of this plan was set up with the entry into NATO of Poland, the Czech Republic and Hungary?
PS: The referred book is The Grand Chessboard I think the title got lost in Translation (the original article is in French).
What Brzezinski wrote about was Russian national recovery and its democratization and "Europeanization," and the peril of Russian nationalists rediscovering "messianism" over pragmatism.
The end of the division of Europe should not precipitate a step back to a Europe of quarrelsome nation-states but should be the point of departure for shaping a larger and increasingly integrated Europe, reinforced by a widened NATO and rendered even more secure by a constructive security relationship with Russia. Hence, America's central geostrategic goal in Europe can be summed up quite simply: it is to consolidate through a more genuine transatlantic partnership the U.S. bridgehead on the Eurasian continent so that an enlarging Europe can become a more viable springboard for projecting into Eurasia the international democratic and cooperative order.Most troubling of all was the loss of Ukraine. The appearance of an independent Ukrainian state not only challenged all Russians to rethink the nature of their own political and ethnic identity, but it represented a vital geopolitical setback for the Russian state. The repudiation of more than three hundred years of Russian imperial history meant the loss of a potentially rich industrial and agricultural economy and of 52 million people ethnically and religiously sufficiently close to the Russians to make Russia into a truly large and confident imperial state. Ukraine's independence also deprived Russia of its dominant position on the Black Sea, where Odessa had served as Russia's vital gateway to trade with the Mediterranean and the world beyond. The loss of Ukraine was geopolitically pivotal, for it drastically limited Russia's geostrategic options. Even without the Baltic states and Poland, a Russia that retained control over Ukraine could still seek to be the leader of an assertive Eurasian empire, in which Moscow could dominate the non-Slavs in the South and Southeast of the former Soviet Union. But without Ukraine and its 52 million fellow Slavs, any attempt by Moscow to rebuild the Eurasian empire was likely to leave Russia entangled alone in protracted conflicts with the nationally and religiously aroused nonSlavs, the war with Chechnya perhaps simply being the first example. Moreover, given Russia's declining birthrate and the explosive birthrate among the Central Asians, any new Eurasian entity based purely on Russian power, without Ukraine, would inevitably become less European and more Asiatic with each passing yearRussia's only real geostrategic option?the option that could give Russia a realistic international role and also maximize the opportunity of transforming and socially modernizing itself?is Europe. And not just any Europe, but the transatlantic Europe of the enlarging EU and NATO. Such a Europe is taking shape, as we have seen in chapter 3, and it is also likely to remain linked closely to America. That is the Europe to which Russia will have to relate, if it is to avoid dangerous geopolitical isolation. For America, Russia is much too weak to be a partner but still too strong to be simply its patient. It is more likely to become a problem, unless America fosters a setting that helps to convince the Russians that the best choice for their country is an increasingly organic connection with a transatlantic Europe
[...]
Only a Russia that is willing to accept the new realities of Europe, both economic and geopolitical, will be able to benefit internally from the enlarging scope of transcontinental European cooperation in commerce, communications, investment, and edu-cation... It also implies that if Russia pursues this path, it will have no choice other than eventually to emulate the course chosen by post-Ottoman Turkey, when it decided to shed its imperial ambitions and embarked very deliberately on the road of modernization, Europeanization, and democratization. No other option can offer Russia the benefits that a modern, rich, and democratic Europe linked to. America can. Europe and America are not a threat to a Russia that is a nonexpansive national and democratic state. They have no territorial designs on Russia, which China someday might have, nor do they share an insecure and potentially violent frontier, which is certainly the case with Russia's ethnically and territorially unclear border with the Muslim nations to the south. On the contrary, for Europe as well as for America, a national and democratic Russia is a geopolitically desirable entity, a source of stability in the volatile Eurasian complex... Most important in that respect is the need for clear and unambiguous acceptance by Russia of Ukraine's separate existence, of its borders, and of its distinctive national identityMore withinRussians will eventually have to come to recognize that Russia's national redefinition is not an act of capitulation but one of liberation. They will have to accept that what Yeltsin said in Kiev in 1990 about a nonimperial future for Russia was absolutely on
the mark. And a genuinely nonimperial Russia will still be a great power, spanning Eurasia, the world's largest territorial unit by far. In any case, a redefinition of "What is Russia and where is Russia" will probably occur only by stages, and it will require a wise
and firm Western posture. America and Europe will have to help. They should offer Russia not only a special treaty or charter with NATO, but they should also begin the process of exploring with Russia the shaping of an eventual transcontinental system of security and cooperation that goes considerably beyond the loose structure of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE). And if Russia consolidates its internal democratic institutions and makes tangible progress in free-market-based
economic development, its ever-closer association with NATO and the EU should not be ruled out. At the same time, it is equally important for the West, especially for America, to pursue policies that perpetuate the dilemma of the one alternative for Russia. The political and economic stabilization of the new post-Soviet states is a major factor in necessitating Russia's historical self-redefinition. Hence, support for the new post-Soviet states?for geopolitical pluralism in the space of the former Soviet empire?has to be an integral part of a policy designed to induce Russia to exercise unambiguously its European option. Among these states, three are geopolitically especially important: Azerbaijan, Uzbekistan, and Ukraine.
[...]
Russia, despite its protestations, is likely to acquiesce in the expansion of NATO in 1999 to include several Central European countries, because the cultural and social gap between Russia and Central Europe has widened so much since the fall of communism.
By contrast, Russia will find it incomparably harder to acquiesce in Ukraine's accession to NATO, for to do so would be to acknowledge that Ukraine's destiny is no longer organically linked to Russia's. Yet if Ukraine is to survive as an independent state, it will
have to become part of Central Europe rather than Eurasia, and if it is to be part of Central Europe, then it will have to partake fully of Central Europe's links to NATO and the European Union. Russia's acceptance of these links would then define Russia's own decision to be also truly a part of Europe. Russia's refusal would be tantamount to the rejection of Europe in favor of a solitary "Eurasian" identity and existence. The key point to bear in mind is that Russia cannot be in Europe without Ukraine also being in Europe, whereas Ukraine can be in Europe without Russia being in Europe. Assuming that Russia decides to cast its lot with Europe, it follows that ultimately it is in Russia's own interest that Ukraine be included in the expanding European structures.
[...]
In that manner, in the course of the first two decades of the next century, Russia could increasingly become an integral part of a Europe that embraces not only Ukraine but reaches to the Urals and even beyond. An association or even some form of membership for Russia in the European and transatlantic structures would in turn open the doors to the inclusion of the three Caucasian countries?Georgia, Armenia, and Azerbaijan?that so desperately aspire to a European connection. One cannot predict how fast that process can move, but one thing is certain: it will move faster if a geopolitical context is shaped that propels Russia in that direction, while foreclosing other temptations. And the faster Russia moves toward Europe, the sooner the black hole of Eurasia will be filled by a society that is increasingly modern and democratic. Indeed, for Russia the dilemma of the one alternative is no longer a matter of making a geopolitical choice but of facing up to the imperatives of survival.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
In other words, if Russia keeps wanting to conquer Ukraine, it will show that it is turning away from peace and democracy, while the West should try its hardest to grow cooperatively with Russia so it isn't captivated by such a lust for power and instead joins the EU and NATO. Both Germany and the US understood from the beginning that Russia in friendship with an independent Poland and Ukraine was the key to promoting a healthy democratic relationship on the continent. Sounds like you and Brzezinski would agree on a lot. You should revisit your appraisal of commentators who lie to you with a pro-fascist axe to grind. The root of the conflict is Russian, particularly Putinist, arrogance and imperialism, not European provocations or some obscure American machination.
On a lighter note, here's a quite funny aside from the book: "However, a coalition allying Russia with both China and Iran can develop only if the United States is shortsighted enough to antagonize China and Iran simultaneously."
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