Sorceror 17er Game Thread

[EnderWiggin]

That's probably the shittiest reads list I've made in ages.

[Sunbae]

There's no real question in that -- i was mostly just stating that the way monstr talked about sleep (e.g. "I dont think i know you that well") felt like a slip that he KNEW sleep's identity because they're in wolf chat together and when he posted that in-thread it was coming off in a way that he forgot that no one else (besides I think rask?) knows for sure who sleep is, so how could he have a gauge on how well he knows them unless he knows who they are?

I asked for a sanity check because that kind of stuff can be so ~rand or stupid that its not worth digging in on but it felt worth calling out anyway.[/COLOR]

Sorry, can you link me to your think on this again?

[EnderWiggin]

So that's my (mostly) in depth thoughts on every player. Tomorrow during the day I'll try to get some good pairs/not-pairs and come up with my final guess. I am eager for any feedback on those thoughts.

I liked the process on Neb and is similar to process I made half delirious so I'm going to take that as a good sign.

I dunno if I agree with the take on Raskol. I don't think he does that as w/w there. (Unless it IS w/w/w wagons on D1 but honestly I don't think that's what happened.)

[nebjiamn]

appreciate it sunbae. i may not be around much tomorrow besides EOD but i've read and digested most of those posts. may not get back at you with feedback but i also think you can see my perspective in my biggest post and if you wanna address anything specific you can ping me i guess? your posts are helpful and ill echo newcomb that this has been the most enjoyable batch of ww back and forths in a game i've had in a while

[nebjiamn]

i have a townping on montmorency!

Feels off to me

Caveat I don't think I know you that well

the wording here is so interesting

i know a few people have claimed to know who sleep is but this just feels .. TMI from wolf chat?

i also don't like the way monstr hand-waves a village read on sleep's big post later on

does anyone want to sanity check me here? feel free to call me a bumbling idiot for this one but i can't shake this + the other suspicions i have on sleep re: the ladd/sleep interactions

here, sunbae

[nebjiamn]

i have a townping on montmorency!

Feels off to me

Caveat I don't think I know you that well

the wording here is so interesting

i know a few people have claimed to know who sleep is but this just feels .. TMI from wolf chat?

i also don't like the way monstr hand-waves a village read on sleep's big post later on

does anyone want to sanity check me here? feel free to call me a bumbling idiot for this one but i can't shake this + the other suspicions i have on sleep re: the ladd/sleep interactions

(click thru the monstr post to see he was actually quoting 3 sleep posts, not just the one i quoted)

[Sunbae]

yeah, regardless of whether or not I've got it close to right, this has been a really fun game. I forgot how enjoyable and stress free werewolf can be when you just have a chill playerlist that's trying to figure things out. Glad to hear others are enjoying themselves too. My games here are always fun and I should try to cut back on the high volume mu games and replace them with some more games here if people are game.

[Sunbae]

Benneh: noted. If you get some time can you link me to your things on the ladd/sleep interactions? Its close to 3am and I like, just decided to skim through sleeps iso and said "meh seems villagery" cause i ran out of steam. I'll give it a more thorough look over tomorrow to double check.

For now, bedtime. I've posted enough lol. gn friendos

[Raskolnikov]

katze treatement of newcomb this game is pretty much a carbon copy of how he treated me as v/v in the poisoner invitational 21er afair

except he gave me d1 freepass (and i did get n1ed)


and i dont really think they'd play like this as a wolf

@Sleep agreed. I actually think there might be a wolf there and it might be newcomb (katze has equity too). Like this post from ladd seems made to soft someone town. I am leaning newcomb since he isn't mentionned directly but that's dumb.

[Raskolnikov]

Katze: A bit of a difficult one for me. There was a really great post towards Ladd kinda trying to pull a punch when asking if Ladd had a thought on sleep wolf before newcomb posted it. The rest of her posts show some good attempts at solving. I have some lingering issues though:

1. I struggle to follow the progression as EOD happens from saying she's the biggest anti-newcomb voice to this lackadaisical vote on newcomb with 'fingers crossed but i do not like any other wagon at all really ' while there's like 6 wagons within a vote of each other.

2. I am skeeved out by the HK defense using the term read decay because it's the exact same way Ladd defended HK. I have both seen and been in wolf chats where a wolf makes some goofy sounding tagline for a defense and other wolves meme on it a bit in the thread. Benneh knows it as the Super Smash Bros spicy read. It's, silly but it crossed my mind.

3. I kind of think HK is a wolf in a lot of worlds and Katze I think has been defending HK a lot in this game. HK being the only one to get a larger blurb in the wagons bad post with why is this even a wagon.

4. Outside of the one prod at Ladd, I don't think Katze really interacted with the dead wolves much. In fact, Katze tried to give Dolby some town credit today for the pronoun read, then pretty much swapped over to dolby once it became clear that wasn't going to fly today.

None of these are that strong but I have strong reasons to call others villagery and I don't really have many for Katze.

With that said, if Newcomb is a wolf then Katze killed it this game.

Have as a possible wolf. Likely paired with either HK, Rask, or Neb if a wolf. i think?

I really need to ISO HK before EOD. I am clearing him for his Dobby vote but need to see the dynamic at the time. I had that thought yesterday that HK was actually trying to gimmic his town meta (relaxed, jokey, with solvey posts mixed in as the game progresses) but failing to sus folks convincingly. He switched to Dolby once Dolby flipped red (was starting to gear up toward my slot) and have mostly posted about him since then? hmm

[Raskolnikov]

I really need to ISO HK before EOD. I am clearing him for his Dolby vote but need to see the dynamic at the time. I had that thought yesterday that HK was actually trying to gimmic his town meta (relaxed, jokey, with solvey posts mixed in as the game progresses) but failing to sus folks convincingly. He switched to Dolby once Dolby flipped red (was starting to gear up toward my slot) and have mostly posted about him since then? hmm

*EBWOP

[Raskolnikov]

Eh. Why did nebbie rise to the same TL tier as me between these and your emote leans post?





About my vote, I should also relate that wrangling the image took me a minute, so I missed the votes shortly preceding mine. As far as I knew I was voting to tie ladd 3-3-3.



Bruh, you were Bowser, not mafia. Csargo was mafia.

-> Benneh raised because I think they have been solvey today. I don't think they are pushing an agenda here, but parsing folks.
-> oh yeah, I mixing it with Smile Mafia 2 maybe (I was a wolf with Logic and Marcher Jovian, @Csargo was playing it iirc)

[Raskolnikov]

Rask: voted ladd. Have one nagging concern in the back of mind. The way monstr responded ?are you trying to make me look bad? before voting. Feels kinda w/w but I also know that's silly. Almost no experience with Rask myself so I don't really know what to look for. I ask myself what it would take for Rask to be wolf and the answer is just self-pressing and not realizing Newcomb was a wagon OR newcomb being a wolf? Maybe even thinking they were lead wagon and were trying to make Ladd look better and then the votes piled on and whoops? It's a stretch. Mostly think the slot is villa. Just kinda crapped on Dolbys entrance with a lmao, just was having no part of Newcombs wagon, etc. Would only evaluate this slot if we get to end game and things seem hard.

I am just villa fame. kinda slacking even since everyone is doing such a good job and I feel so IC I am just waiting for dvc lol.
I can see Newcomb being a wolf fwiw, I just choosed Ladd because didn't remember a read on him and to sheep WH.

[Raskolnikov]

ladd
newcomb
montmorency

all of these are good targets

Crossposted from scumchat?

To get a feel I am actually rereading Monty's EOD. Seems to me he did a good amount of work to shade Winston and resist the ladd wagon finally.

[Raskolnikov]

I meant to reply to this first, which got me into Monty's ISO

I don't think anyone has responded to any of my Monty stuff? other than newcomb referencing it

and people are still giving him credit for ending on ladd when I've pointed out 80 times that he actually tried to unvote but it was at :01 (after seeing several other people suddenly vote ladd)

his posts today are not doing it today for me but I seem to be on an island here

I have seen it and to be blatantly honnest I have a problem with this unvote since :02. I am debating if w!Monty would do it.

[Raskolnikov]

would be fun if the remaining scum were just monty and newcomb lol. I should compare cuth's read to Winston's. (both IC from the D1 flip, scums choosed Winston)

[Raskolnikov]

LET IT R-



In play or as candidates?

another weird post before getting to business

Vote: Ladd

o crap what sthe tally

Unvote

I really dislike the "o crap".

Still best to keep pretending I am leaning town on Monty and chop him asap :D

[Dobby]

Why Dobby could be town, an exercise in expanding my mind:

1. It's pretty early to sus on Ladd here but Dobby does it. No wolf at this point is super concerned with positioning nor is there any kind of indication that Ladd could potentially be at risk here. While it's a safe position for a wolf to take, drawing attention to the position by including it as one of only four stated positions I think is risky. Ladd would need to go over quickly (basically D1) for the read to not look like TMI


unfortunately this is it.

I've gone through the rest of your ISO and frankly I'd kill you for it. It's not super great. Like the post I'm replying to and the post I quoted above are your towniest posts to me. The rest are kinda meh with quite a few "wtf" thrown in there, specifically when addressing me/your read on me.

Like these:





I left the bold in there b/c I have no idea how you arrive at that conclusion, but the main thing I want to point out are your thoughts on my post here. It's nothing but word salad designed to look smart while not actually saying anything other than, in a nut shell, "this is a post I dobby can make as a wolf therefore it can be from a wolf"

And this is the "extensive post about my reasoning" that you've referenced above







None of these posts are good tbh. newcomb was townie enough that he really shouldn't have been run up at all. Raskol sure, I'll buy that. I thought Rask had wolf potential headed into today as well. I think I've been obvs town, your mileage varies.

I feel like the last post quoted here is something I see quite a bit from wolves in general. Basically taking the position of "I don't really want either of these wagons but if I have to choose I'll take X" where X more often than not is a partner.



dolby flips wolf, I put pressure on monstr D1, you literally do not acknowledge that pressure nor address how I could be partnered with either dolby (who said I could be town) / monstr (who did not acknowledge my existence).

There's also this, which is just not true:


We're in D2 currently, you're not top posting. You weren't top posting D1. Even by vv lax definitions of top posting you're still (checks the ISO list) in the bottom half of post counts. It's whatever though, I don't expect total accuracy, just thought this was interesting to point out.

Then today is just a continuation of yesterday


Where's re-evaluations? Where's "maybe I'm wrong, I was wrong on monstr/dolby, I didn't want to participate in Ladd and that was wrong, maybe my reads aren't the greatest and I should stop and think"?

I have more respect for your game than to assume you're lost townie here basically.

anyways, vote: dobby might as well put my money where my mouth is.

1) irl day 2, second half of d1 of that helps.

2) cool ty for doing that. It takes a lot for me to ever be top posting and even if im in thread q full day I'm not st the top

3) my read on monstr was based on a few things but also things I don't want/shouldn't talk about. I didn't think he'd tilt and react like that as wolf ever but obviously I was wrong.

4) associative reads or whatever it's called often turn out wrong at least for me so yeah even though j might do it at some point that wasn't anything I found useful to do

5) dolby tried to push me didn't he? I might be wrong about that

6) the "I didn't want to participate in ladd" is just wrong. I had sus on him throughout but I preferred you/rask at eod which I was very clear about. When I saw the wagons last minute after the shifts I was pretty clear about preferring ladd over newcom. I did suggest newcomb get the bomb because of his potential to be town and if so he'd be the best one to have the bomb. I don't think that reasoning was weird but apparently it was. And saying I don't prefer ladd/newcomb to you isn't weird when I still find it likelier for you to be wolf than the rest of the playerlist. Can't know if I'm wrong til you die, right? :)

Re reevaluations - I'm trying to actually take things that show up in consideration and have changed my reads based on that, for example on sleep that I pushed really hard early on and then got pretty convinced that he's town.

7) I wrote about your push on... I think it was ender, cba looking up, and how it didn't make sense, don't believe you've explained that part and it's one of the main reasons I still have my doubts on you.

8) saying I'm lost this game is extremely exaggerated just because I'm pushing you and was wrong on monstr. You're not helping me change my mind tbh

9) omgus? :p would you sus me if I didn't push you?

A fair bit of what you wrote there is straight up wrong or intentional misinterpretations of what I wrote and yeah it doesn't help in finding you town at all.

[Raskolnikov]

Like these are the last posts from Monty at EOD. And it doesn't make sense to shade (to the point of hinting Winston scum) the read on Ladd to sheeping it so quickly without outside, thread related influence?

[Dobby]

Vote: Dobby

There can only be one

Imagine subbing into a game and voting your partner

[Raskolnikov]

Worth noting that Newcomb had an enterely original reaction at SOD2 ("u absolute madlads etc..."), which I may read into :)

[Raskolnikov]

Imagine subbing into a game and voting your partner

It would have been a several layer joke too. but distancing exists so yeah (I think he wasn't under much pressure at the time of this vote so I am not seeing it as clearing for you)

[Dobby]

Dobby, can you explain to me these two posts like 5 hours apart?

I only* saw ( just in swedish is used like only) as in i saw Dolby died but I didn't see that you were sorcerer

[Dobby]

It would have been a several layer joke too. but distancing exists so yeah (I think he wasn't under much pressure at the time of this vote so I am not seeing it as clearing for you)

Distancing as the first thing you do when subbing in when I'm townreading his slot would be pretty next level and also out of character for dolby. AND yes he wasn't under pressure. But yeah that shouldn't be clearing its just something I wanted to add when I saw it wuotef

[Raskolnikov]

can Monty and Newcomb be together? prolly not (why unvote in this case?)

hmm

[Dobby]

Dobby: Liked his initial call out of Ladd for having too many reads too early. Thought their hesitancy on trying to figure out my alignment was natural and nuanced using a lot of our history in a way that made me think they were actually trying to figure it out. I thought Dobby just disagreeing with Newcomb and saying Sleep/Cape could be w/w was entirely against threadflow/consensus in a villagery way and then immediately arguing with Katze in 682 also came off towny to me in a way where I thought Dobby was reading posts, thinking about why they are being posted, and trying to reach conclusions from it rather than having a nefarious intent to spin posts for personal gain. The Hollowkat push was also against general thread consensus at the time. I have small concerns ? two dead wolves called villagers in the big reads list, the double posts about ?oh dolby was a wolf? like 5 hours apart making me think they might be fake, the fact that pretty much nobody else is villa reading Dobby ? but the concerns are very small and I think the overall body of work is still just villager Dobby trying to solve the game.

Nobody else is villa reading dobby usually means dobby is town tbwh

[Dobby]

HollowKatt: I think their interactions with Monstr are interesting. Immediately called out Monstr for feeling spicy for the sake of spicy, follows up on it by reiterating it to Cuth, monstr returns by saying it's not a real thought and voting hk. That is the entirety of HK's iso that I feel I can call towny and, frankly, I'm pretty ok saying it's reasonable to expect monstr to be a bus target at that point. I don't think anything else in there feels like someone trying to solve the game and I think the case on Dobby is like, really twisty in a nefarious way. I have this slot as a possible wolf. Not a lock. Could easily still be villa. But thus far isoing everyone up to this point, this one is the least villagery to me by far

AAAAAA I love you sunbae, you're actually just writing the things that frustrate me but examining them better than me

[Dobby]

I really need to ISO HK before EOD. I am clearing him for his Dobby vote but need to see the dynamic at the time. I had that thought yesterday that HK was actually trying to gimmic his town meta (relaxed, jokey, with solvey posts mixed in as the game progresses) but failing to sus folks convincingly. He switched to Dolby once Dolby flipped red (was starting to gear up toward my slot) and have mostly posted about him since then? hmm

Clearing him for his dobby vote? What am I missing here

[Raskolnikov]

Clearing him for his dobby vote? What am I missing here

that's a typo. I corrected it the post below; "his Dolby's vote".

[Raskolnikov]

Why did u yolo vote me EOD1?