Casual december game

[Ampharos]

[QUOTE=Vulgard;2053837884]

The catchup post solidified my belief she's a wolf and I've been wolfsiding.

honestly this is like a textbook pile-on

vote: Vulgard

[Boquise]

smh visor went all quiet when the thread began brawling

#Sad #No #Where'sMyElectricCarBruce

[Boquise]

[QUOTE=Ampharos;2053837900]

honestly this is like a textbook pile-on

vote: Vulgard

why are you stealing my textbooks and breaking dem quotes smh smh

[Boquise]

why am i town @Vulgard

[Ampharos]

idk tbh
like i dont see the reason why i would choose to do so by memeing at you

it isnt like i did a song and dance about it yesterday tbh
and theres nothing disengaging with my post to you, given i even kept responding to you (even when you were reacting negatively to the reactions). Doesnt fit the glove tbh

sure whatever poor word choice on my part

this is a really strange thing to get hung up on, my dude

[Ampharos]

Loosely agreeing with the world currently put out without putting much effort in because you know I'm going to flip town so you'll have to "review" anyway.

And you don't want to rock the current focus/pressure on me.

alright so honestly my initial reaction to this post was going to be "man if i was a wolf i'd be able to come up with something better than just sleepwalking into PoE votes. i'd at least have like... scumreads"

but i've been lazy enough this game that i don't even know if that's entirely true? something something im retired

so i guess the question i have is: which reads do you think i should be reevaluating that i'm currently not? because i would love to find you as town, and to figure out which wolf i'm inevitably giving too much of a free pass, but i'm not there yet

[Visor]

smh visor went all quiet when the thread began brawling

#Sad #No #Where'sMyElectricCarBruce

Smh I was preparing dinner

[Visor]

amy whats ur read on dya

what do you think of their defence of u

[Totally not Taffy]

If I asked you questions and you do not answer them like you are trying to convince a fellow townie of your solve, we WILL NOT see day three together.

Is this a slip where you expect to see D3? You asked to be answered as if you were town and I will, but if we do see D3 together getting you yeeted will be my top priority.

Question posed for everyone who would like to assist me today:

1) Who do you believe did the best solving on day one out of everyone, in terms of process and likelihood of being right

The only two people who I noticed having a process rather than on the spot reads were you and Montmorency, so I'm going with him. Given his posts today I am still happy with that answer, though if Kagemusha gets results with his I'm going to study and copy it in future games.

2) Besides your own suspicions list and town leans, which other player's reads this game would you sheep if you had to sheep someone? Including Spooge.

I would rather sheep individual reads that I think have good reasoning behind them or are made on players I feel I cannot read by players who are better at it than sheep a particular player entirely. For example, I'm willing to sheep your and Vulgard's read on Ladd. That doesn't mean I'll sheep the rest of them.

Ignoring my preference (and to give you a real answer), currently I'd be willing to sheep Montmorencey, Kagemusha, Boquise and Ladd. Given a green check I'd also definitely sheep Ender (even if he was wrong initially, I do believe he has the ability to solve the game in the end and that's what counts).

3) What was the basis of the suspicions on Logic

I'm assuming you mean my reasons for voting him, if you want a general feel of why the rest of the thread was suspicious of him lmk. I had early suspicions of Logic because of his early posting. Then his posting got better, but he kept getting heat from enough people to warrant being a wagon. I was ok with him going over in the end because I thought his case on Visor was based on bad reasoning (sorry Logic). In Logic's head:

1. Visor has a godread on him
2. Visor is aware of this
3. Other players in this game are aware of this
4. Instead of letting another member of his team push Logic for his awkward posting, wolf!Visor decides to risk outing himself to those other players

This just doesn't make sense. It would be terrible wolfing and Visor is not a terrible wolf. Since Logic flipped town and those other players deny 3, my conclusion is that Visor's godread exists only in Logic's head.

4) Who on that wagon are wolves, including "none" or whichever names you wish.

It really depends on Ender's and Ampharos' alignments, but it would surprise me if there were no wolves on that wagon at all. If Ender and/or Ampharos are town, then probably no more than two, and the off-wagon voters become more likely to be wolves. If Ender is a wolf then almost certainly Visor.

@ Taffy

Would you bet the game that Vulgard is town?

Meaning, you have no doubt at all.

If so, explain how you got there in a manner that presupposes I have never played with Vulgard, do not know how to read him, and if you are that confident you must have strong reasons.

I need you to hold my hand, and walk me through it like I am stupid. Do not assume I understand anything you're saying but the definitions of the words you're using.

I could only be that certain of my read if it was on a player I had played regularly and recently with that I had experience of reading correctly. I have never played with Vulgard before, so no. I am, however, still willing to walk you through it: from what Vulgard told me, I have concluded that he enjoys wolfing more than towning, and that he would have been happy to rand wolf this game. Nobody has stood up yet to tell me I'm wrong on this. Vulgard's early posts do not scream "woot woot I randed wolf" to me. Hence, he's not a wolf. I realise this is simplistic, but in order to know better I'd have to go and read former wolf games of his and I don't think that's worth it unless we're in LyLo together. That's why the category is named "people I'd prefer not to look at again till LyLo" and not "towncore".

You have no idea I am town.

Awesome, gonna set you aside in the null pile.

I hope this is a joke because it shouldn't be this easy to pocket you. I feel like the way you're interacting with Renata this game is distinctly different from how the two of you treated each other in Dale's Kingmaker game you recently played together and from that I think there's probably at least one wolf between you. If you flip green tonight and you don't want me tunnelling her tomorrow, please explain how I'm wrong about my observation or why the two of you would treating each other differently is NAI.

How about you put some real effort into your solve as if you want to convince anyone at all that your solve is one you believe

For your whole day one you played with some level of confidence. To enter day two and suddenly have less confidence instead of more, doesn't make sense.

Don't you have MORE information now than you did on day one?

Don't you have a smaller pool of suspects?

As the counterwagon, you have a unique insight as to what the wolves probably did. I don't see you aggressively pursuing any suspect.

There is no need for this, you could have made your point differently. If Ender is a town low on WIM then being told he isn't good enough isn't going to encourage him to put in more effort, he will just dislike being in this game and want out. If Ender is a wolf then he didn't choose his rand and it's probably very painful for him to be found so soon by so many people. Either way this isn't a great approach.

Similar for Vulgard, but I somehow lost the quote. This is supposed to be a casual game, allow people to enjoy it even while you're killing them.

As an aside, I didn't think Ender's readslist was lacking, it's pretty much what I'm used to from him. I read your SoD as heavily implying that you had a cop check on someone (presumably Ender or Vulgard, maybe Visor), and if anything Ender's relaxing shows that he expects to be green checked. Visor, otoh, was all but lolcatting this morning (though he seems to have picked up again recently).

[Totally not Taffy]

I don't like the bolded, always feel like stuff like that seems made up to me.



I find the end of this quote just weird. It's not like "I think you're a woof" and more to me like" I want you to think I think you're a woof" or like a gotcha type deal? It was just odd phrasing to me.

Plus a lower level of content from hk than I've been accustomed to imo, but they already explained that.

I didn't really push it, except a comment about the about the above quote that was semi-serious. These are things similar to stuff that's bothered me before about hk, and I'm always wrong, so I didn't really do anything with it. Just focused on other people.

Thank you! How do you feel about his posting today? Do you think I should back off?

I realise in replying to this post that I left you off of my list of people I would be willing to sheep. @Askthepizzaguy

[Boquise]

sure whatever poor word choice on my part

this is a really strange thing to get hung up on, my dude

Why is it a strange thing to get hung up on tbh?

[Boquise]

Is this a slip where you expect to see D3? You asked to be answered as if you were town and I will, but if we do see D3 together getting you yeeted will be my top priority.




The only two people who I noticed having a process rather than on the spot reads were you and Montmorency, so I'm going with him. Given his posts today I am still happy with that answer, though if Kagemusha gets results with his I'm going to study and copy it in future games.




I would rather sheep individual reads that I think have good reasoning behind them or are made on players I feel I cannot read by players who are better at it than sheep a particular player entirely. For example, I'm willing to sheep your and Vulgard's read on Ladd. That doesn't mean I'll sheep the rest of them.

Ignoring my preference (and to give you a real answer), currently I'd be willing to sheep Montmorencey, Kagemusha, Boquise and Ladd. Given a green check I'd also definitely sheep Ender (even if he was wrong initially, I do believe he has the ability to solve the game in the end and that's what counts).




I'm assuming you mean my reasons for voting him, if you want a general feel of why the rest of the thread was suspicious of him lmk. I had early suspicions of Logic because of his early posting. Then his posting got better, but he kept getting heat from enough people to warrant being a wagon. I was ok with him going over in the end because I thought his case on Visor was based on bad reasoning (sorry Logic). In Logic's head:

1. Visor has a godread on him
2. Visor is aware of this
3. Other players in this game are aware of this
4. Instead of letting another member of his team push Logic for his awkward posting, wolf!Visor decides to risk outing himself to those other players

This just doesn't make sense. It would be terrible wolfing and Visor is not a terrible wolf. Since Logic flipped town and those other players deny 3, my conclusion is that Visor's godread exists only in Logic's head.




It really depends on Ender's and Ampharos' alignments, but it would surprise me if there were no wolves on that wagon at all. If Ender and/or Ampharos are town, then probably no more than two, and the off-wagon voters become more likely to be wolves. If Ender is a wolf then almost certainly Visor.




I could only be that certain of my read if it was on a player I had played regularly and recently with that I had experience of reading correctly. I have never played with Vulgard before, so no. I am, however, still willing to walk you through it: from what Vulgard told me, I have concluded that he enjoys wolfing more than towning, and that he would have been happy to rand wolf this game. Nobody has stood up yet to tell me I'm wrong on this. Vulgard's early posts do not scream "woot woot I randed wolf" to me. Hence, he's not a wolf. I realise this is simplistic, but in order to know better I'd have to go and read former wolf games of his and I don't think that's worth it unless we're in LyLo together. That's why the category is named "people I'd prefer not to look at again till LyLo" and not "towncore".




I hope this is a joke because it shouldn't be this easy to pocket you. I feel like the way you're interacting with Renata this game is distinctly different from how the two of you treated each other in Dale's Kingmaker game you recently played together and from that I think there's probably at least one wolf between you. If you flip green tonight and you don't want me tunnelling her tomorrow, please explain how I'm wrong about my observation or why the two of you would treating each other differently is NAI.




There is no need for this, you could have made your point differently. If Ender is a town low on WIM then being told he isn't good enough isn't going to encourage him to put in more effort, he will just dislike being in this game and want out. If Ender is a wolf then he didn't choose his rand and it's probably very painful for him to be found so soon by so many people. Either way this isn't a great approach.

Similar for Vulgard, but I somehow lost the quote. This is supposed to be a casual game, allow people to enjoy it even while you're killing them.

As an aside, I didn't think Ender's readslist was lacking, it's pretty much what I'm used to from him. I read your SoD as heavily implying that you had a cop check on someone (presumably Ender or Vulgard, maybe Visor), and if anything Ender's relaxing shows that he expects to be green checked. Visor, otoh, was all but lolcatting this morning (though he seems to have picked up again recently).

I am going to town read Taffy for the last part of this post. I find it rare that wolves go the empathetic constructive path in their answers and thoughts tbh

Tho i did get burned on this in my last game
But still
Let's do a town read

[Boquise]

Smh I was preparing dinner

Weak tbh

[Cape90]

oh and luvspooge was probably mac

for postgame credit

I just want to spoil that Mac would wolfread me if luvs was mac I think so i do not think so.

Presumably at least from my POV.

Didn't really feel like him either, not antagonistic enough

[Visor]

Weak tbh

i was cutting jalapenos without gloves

[Cape90]

VOTE: Kagemusha

I hate everything about what I have seen from the slot

After I catch up I still want to ISO

This is just my gut reaction after seeing his readslist

[Ampharos]

thinking abt csargo and taffy, who i think are the only 2 people i didn't name in my last post

neither has stuck to my brain very well and i think it's largely because i don't really know them and we haven't really been around at the same time (that i can recall)

and taffy's posts in particular are dense and difficult to parse for me in my current low-effort state

i think the general shape of her thread contributions has been villagery, but i think it's specifically villagery in a way that good wolves can fake. i have no meta on her so i have no idea if she is one of those, but... yeah. call it another null for the salad, i suppose

csargo i think is town and it's mostly because he genuinely seemed like he had no real idea how to handle visor fakeclaiming at him

this post was not finished but i had to deal with a work thing and now the train of thought has evaporated so here's what was already in the box when i came back

[Totally not Taffy]

well yeah logic is dead town, you're obvs not going to say you're a wolf, and that leaves vulgard and taffy. Neither of which I'm remembering well or impressed by (which I guess is saying functionally the same thing)

Ender/Visor is a spicy solve and I could see that. I guess the big question is with a player list this stacked why did luv die first?
I don't feel like it's a fear kill, luv was an alt of someone that knows a lot of us and I don't particularly care who they are under the mask, but if someone did know it could turn into a fear kill.

Their reads list doesn't seem like a reason to die. could just be a weird kill to throw off the scent as well as getting rid of someone they were unlikely to get chopped during the day.

Given that even I have both of them in PoE I do not agree that there's anything spicy about that solve. I think the bolded is very sketchy reasoning, just because it doesn't matter to you who Spooge was doesn't mean it didn't matter to the wolves (unless you're one of them). And it's not a fear kill but it might have been? That's waffly.

From my perspective, one of the most remarkable things about Spooge's reads list is that he had you as a top town, and even had called you obviously so. This is part of the reason you gave for voting him, you didn't feel you had done anything that warranted that. Great. But now you're explicitly not mentioning the option that wolves killed Spooge so it would be easier to push you today? When you were very much aware or his read and several people are scumreading you? That doesn't look town to me.

Renata even very helpfully sets you up for it (I hope I got these in the right order):

They did feel extremely obv town to me, but based on thread tone that doesn't seem to have been a wide-spread feeling. Not in writing anyway.

Please specify why you think their reads list wasn't a reason to die.

if he was right locking those reads into place with people who, if town, are smart enough to start with the list and start pressing then he's worked hard to clear a few people who are chops the wolf team would like to get, and impugned people the wolf team would like to keep safe.

I guess it would have to come down to whether or not the wolf team thinks they could out play his list, or if they kept him alive, outplay him. I tend to think if you have a player who's right, and is hard to eliminate that you want to work to mitigate them not enshrine their reads for perpetuity.

It usually seems to work the other way. Gone is forgotten.

except that here it is not and the reason is that we're all highly skilled players who aren't going to forget about the recently dead. Come 3-4 days from now if we're still playing then sure but I don't know of anyone who would ignore the most recent NK reads list.

Look at how you're both dancing around this conclusion without mentioning it outright. To me this looks like wolves killed the player hard townreading one of them and are now hoping town will sheep that read.


Vote: Hollowkatt

I do not believe in antagonising my scumreads, you are a great person who I would love to play with again in the future.

[Ampharos]

Why is it a strange thing to get hung up on tbh?

i guess "meaningless semantic nitpicking" isn't that strange in a game of mafia but i still hate it

[Ampharos]

putting a bookmark here bc i don't have time to read those taffy posts rn

[Renata]

thinking abt csargo and taffy, who i think are the only 2 people i didn't name in my last post

neither has stuck to my brain very well and i think it's largely because i don't really know them and we haven't really been around at the same time (that i can recall)

and taffy's posts in particular are dense and difficult to parse for me in my current low-effort state

i think the general shape of her thread contributions has been villagery, but i think it's specifically villagery in a way that good wolves can fake. i have no meta on her so i have no idea if she is one of those, but... yeah. call it another null for the salad, i suppose

csargo i think is town and it's mostly because he genuinely seemed like he had no real idea how to handle visor fakeclaiming at him

this post was not finished but i had to deal with a work thing and now the train of thought has evaporated so here's what was already in the box when i came back

Why in your mind does not knowing how to deal with a fake claim indicate town? Why does a wolf know what to do there?

[Cape90]

I am starting to like Vulgard for 1010 and the post under that. I do not fully remember the wagon composition on Amy and what that looked like before it was solely Pizza and Boq who I think are both town. There was definitely a lot of movement there. When I made the comment on interpreting your post initially, I didn't see dyachei's post, but I thought it made a lot of sense, so I was waiting for you to confirm or deny that, but I did start to get pretty unsure of my own reasoning I threw out there on you.

Sidenote: dyachei continues to be completely out of wolf range IMO. Good to see. I would actually be surprised if dya is a wolf

Anyways I do think having Montmorency as wolf is a unique take I suppose. I do not have a strong stance there yet.

What about HK's posting particularly today did you find towny?

Also listen, I have a green check on Pizza so he is cleared for sure, at least for another couple hours or so.

Last note of 1011 (since i did also specify the post under 1010) that last thing Vulgard said i wanna read as towny.

Big ol post in 1111 I also townread from Vulgard. The fourth I suppose you could say paragraph (tho not rly paragraph but u know)? from the post reads to me as towny. Just because I just kind of believe it, which sounds wolfy, but I don't care. I feel like talking to Pizza in this fashion is town-indicative and defending Ender like this is a bit on the nose if w/w.

[Visor]

atpg if you dont have 10000 words of content and a complete solve at precisely the 24 hour mark i will be extremely disappointed

[Raskolnikov]

Ender (4): Renata, Vulgard, Ladd, Boquise
Amy (2): Visor, Ender
HK (2): Kagemusha, Taffy
Visor (1): HK
Dya (1): Pizza
Vulgard (1): Amy
Kagemusha (1): Cape

[Ampharos]

Why in your mind does not knowing how to deal with a fake claim indicate town? Why does a wolf know what to do there?

i think if csargo was wolfing here he would do his flip-flopping on whether or not to go along with the claim in wolfchat, not in thread

basically i'm reading the public second guessing himself as genuine

[Vulgard]

why am i town @Vulgard

Your callout on Amy just now, especially the player salad claim. It's more or less why I thought her catch-up post was wolfy.

[Totally not Taffy]

By the way this is Vulgard's actual comment that he said later was a reaction assessment.



I can't see this as a reaction assessment, I just can't. I can be be persuaded by AtE, I can believe I'm probably wrong about everything else, but I'm stuck on this.

(Ender's pockety comment that this was in response to was "I mean you bending yourself about specifics just makes me think you're town so good job =P")

When I first read Vulgard's post I thought he had interpreted Ender's post as a reaction assessment - you know, give someone a townread and if they're happy about it they're probably a wolf and if they object they're probably town so the correct response is "don't pocket me". But this later reply contradicts that so I was wrong.

Eh, I wasn't trying to AtE, just explain my mindset. I feel like the definition of AtE has been stretched so much it's a massively umbrella term that means a lot of things now, more than it did originally.



Yeah, okay, I should probably just admit it at this point, I made that up so he'd leave me alone. I had no good answer at the time, I just felt like saying the thing but I knew just answering that would be considered wolfy.

I guess me admitting that it was made up is also wolfy but what can I do at this point lol. You're basically locktown for even noticing it anyway so I'm cool with that part.

I hope you understand Vulgard that this makes you look very bad.

[Ampharos]

Your callout on Amy just now, especially the player salad claim. It's more or less why I thought her catch-up post was wolfy.

i would love for you to elaborate

in the meantime im going to be gone for a bit because irl is royally pissing me off rn and i don't want that to spill into the game

[Totally not Taffy]

can yall who wolfread me pls elaborate besides 'not solving'

thx

(for my own personal curiosity)

I don't buy that you could have forgotten that I was in the game yesterday. I also think your posting this morning looked like you were a wolf who had given up. Glad you're back. Tell my why HK is fine.

[Totally not Taffy]

I really fricked that up, especially if Wiggin is mafia

I feel really bad

Sorry Logic

Anyways, I will be here shortly and hopefully not panicking EOD again

You should not feel bad. If players never made mistakes, wolves could never win. Apologising is also supposed to be a scumtell, because it shows a guilty conscience. If you knew this and did it on purpose then I think it's very funny. (No it does not make me think you are scum)

the thing about it is I just do not get how faking reads is something that can be interpreted as towny from a town's perspective. I have never seen it

I sometimes like to give a firm townread to a strong player who I actually don't have a good read on that game so the wolves will solve the slot for me. Or, if I think someone is town and don't want them NKed, I might keep them as a scumlean. This also catches wolves who start opportunistic pushes thinking you'll join. Sometimes it works, but you have to balance it with letting other people know where you stand. Naturally if your reads and your voting are out of sync you just end up getting misyeeted.