17er Saints and Martyrs

[Raskolnikov]

A self-protecting, consecutive targeting doc that gets feedback is perfectly balanced I will hear no criticism.

[Arctic]

oh so it was more like a BG
okay that.. actually explanis why they openclaimed and siad who they were targeting every day lmao

uh
anyway i still think it's wisdom
i'm open to killing vanta just so we can move on but i don't think it's them

i don't think it's dya, dya wanted to kill gemma at eod1 too

gemma/ender doesn't seem w/w for obv reasons

not considering anyone else except vanta

[Arctic]

my case is read wisdom's posts about gemma yesterday

said nothing about them in their big sod post, then started acting like gemma was already preflipped wolf after everyone was sussing them and started casing me and vanta as w/w with them despite showing no actual consideration of gemma's alignment, just chose to sheep everyone on it

the post was literally "oh so gemma wolf? cool!"

[Arctic]

I blame whoever it was for saying gemma's post was a PR soft and got that idea into everyone's head (ignore that I thought the exact same thing) cuz she clearly saw people thinking this and just decided to roll with it which is what stopped us killing her for like 2 days (we still would have prob killed gh and logic but shhhh)

[Raskolnikov]

yeah, I could go both. I thought Wisdom D5 was more villagery but anyway that claim tells me to

Vote: Vanta Black though

[Arctic]

I am also not really siw because wisdom ignored all of my posts yesterday lmfao

[Raskolnikov]

I think Gemma's flip locks Dya villa. I had the same thought about Hally back reading D4 but can't remember why smh.

[Raskolnikov]

Wisdom, less lurking, less teaching, more poasting

[nebjiamn]

ok taffy you are insane, the protection on murska was passive, lmfao

poor wittle woofies

[dyachei]

yeah, I could go both. I thought Wisdom D5 was more villagery but anyway that claim tells me to

Vote: Vanta Black though

what claim tells you to what?

[nebjiamn]

I blame whoever it was for saying gemma's post was a PR soft and got that idea into everyone's head (ignore that I thought the exact same thing) cuz she clearly saw people thinking this and just decided to roll with it which is what stopped us killing her for like 2 days (we still would have prob killed gh and logic but shhhh)

that was me, hehe

oops (but also at least i boxed gemma in with it)

[Raskolnikov]

I am independently town reading Ender, both for meta reasons, him being kinda weird and off track d1, him following his own path EoD2, Syn pushing him and Gemma casing him.

I'm just trying to explain every reason I can think of as to why he is town since people really doesn't town read him as hard as I do.

Gemma is my top wolf, I'd even go so far to say that Gemma has to be wolf for this game to work.

Bolded strengthens Gemma/Vanta world

Cursive looks quite pockety and not w/w

If I've ISO'd Vanta correctly then this is the only time he says anything about Gemma outside of one "I'm not sold on Gemma" and putting her in the middle of his read list a few times.

From this PoV it looks possible for Vanta and Gemma to be partnered.

I liked this string of posts specifically (because Wisdom setting up themselves for a 7 vs 1 starting with Vanta is... bold)

[dyachei]

Lol

Thrilling push friend

this post was on logic pushing vanta and I just saw it and it makes me hmm

[Raskolnikov]

what claim tells you to what?

I got the feeling Gemma was giving up and the claim was like unbelievable. I am not sure how much Vanta is experienced with fakeclaiming but it does make more sense to me with how things played out.

[nebjiamn]

I liked this string of posts specifically (because Wisdom setting up themselves for a 7 vs 1 starting with Vanta is... bold)

i think it became pretty clear a few hours in that gemma was dying (even though yesterday felt less like days 3 and 4 from a 'decided yeet' pov, i still don't think we were yeeting anywhere else v often)

i think any decent enough wolf (which everyone alive should be) knew from day3 on that they'd be walking into an eventual 6v1 (i doubt they factored in a save, hehe) with those 3 chains of elims in some order (GH/logic/gemma)

[Arctic]

Is there actually a reason to think it's vanta? PoE doesn't really convince me when it's what, day 6? A wolf would have usually done something wolfy by now. I feel like there are countless reasons to think it's wisdom

[Raskolnikov]

this post was on logic pushing vanta and I just saw it and it makes me hmm

the infamous hmm read. maj this pls. (:p)

[dyachei]

After some sleep I realized that the first one who said they found me hard to understand were likely to be town. Mostly due to it being a kind of rude thing to do and a wolf wouldn't know if it's the TMI spooking or if it's a personality thing.

Turned out that the first person was Zack, so I guess he's pretty much lock town by now, but it's not very helpful (I thought it was GH who were first, which would have been way more helpful).

Joining in on that (GH, Visor) says nothing about their aligments, although I find Visor acknowledging that he can't read me kinda wolfy, usually he just goes for the "Yeet Wisdom" repeat. I mean, if character growth -> Yay, but if wolf -> Yeet

Vote: Visor

I mean, you're not wrong. I was about to unvote right after posting but then I realized I won't be here for EoD (this day, should work upcoming days) and I don't really have anyone else to vote.

I remember Visor fooling me hard one time and in that game he played way townier than he's done so far, which probably should imply that he's town. But, meh.

I don't have a full read list but anyone who's not [Zack, Rask, Ladd, Logic, Ender, Dya, GH?, Ben?] I would be okay voting today. That means my PoE is 8 people atm.

Leaving for class in 5 and will miss EoD

I'm kinda vibing with what's being said about Arctic and Syn.
That leaves Visor/Murska/Vanta/Jan/Hally/Gemma
Wouldn't bet that all 4 wolves are in those 6 but probably 2-3
Kinda wanna take out Jan for no good reason and whoever Ladd just defended, I vibed with that.

I don't like that Visor and Hally haven't gotten a lot of focus, but I haven't seen anything AI either (Visor calling me hard to read for once should be NAI even if it feels wolfy).

If correct there's only one wolf off wagon

1 in Logic/Visor/Vanta/Gemma

Vote: Visor
Lessgo

I've had so many people tell me that GH hates bussing and would never bus etc that I just can't see him bus with 3 min to go even if Syn was a doomed slot.

im not gonna read anymore

im convinced from just the first page of ISo that wisdom is a villager
@Hally

[Raskolnikov]

Is there actually a reason to think it's vanta? PoE doesn't really convince me when it's what, day 6? A wolf would have usually done something wolfy by now. I feel like there are countless reasons to think it's wisdom

pls tell me one reason Vanta is villagery? I mean specifically because it's D6 and not D1 you wanna more smh

[Wisdom]

my case is read wisdom's posts about gemma yesterday

said nothing about them in their big sod post, then started acting like gemma was already preflipped wolf after everyone was sussing them and started casing me and vanta as w/w with them despite showing no actual consideration of gemma's alignment, just chose to sheep everyone on it

the post was literally "oh so gemma wolf? cool!"

Maybe I didn't actually say it d4 but I found the killing pr claim to be kinda sus, especially since she didn't elaborate on it. I didn't get to her on my n4 post but I pretty much had the mindset "if no additional kill she's likely a wolf".

I don't know how much I've talked about Gemma at all prior to yesterday though, could very well be a transparency issue. Reason I locked in on her being a wolf was less sheeping and more like analysing the game state, even though that's hard to prove.

[Arctic]

im not gonna read anymore

im convinced from just the first page of ISo that wisdom is a villager
@Hally

is this just because she's been playing townsidey

because i'm not convinced at all when wisdom is known to bus a lot and we clearly know the last wolf has been townsiding to some degree, whoever it is

i linked a post a couple days ago from a wisdom wolfgame where her first serious vote/callout was on a partner

[nebjiamn]

8 alive

mislunch to 7
nk to 6
mislunch to 5
nk to 4

sleep should be safe?

nk to 3

so we have 2 mislunches and maybe a sleep unless wolves have some hidden late game KP (seems unlikely but can't be too careful)

so we need to clear 5 people hmm

[Wisdom]

Gemma wolf?
Nice, seems plausible!
Could be worth looking into who pushed her first after the soft claim, that would very unlikely be a wolf mate.

Gemma first ofc

Ah, right. Yeah this was pretty much an acknowledgement of the wagon existing when I joined thread and it matched my previous thoughts.

[Arctic]

pls tell me one reason Vanta is villagery? I mean specifically because it's D6 and not D1 you wanna more smh

i think they did a lot of stuff a wolf doesn't bother to. like making the insane tinfoil w/w read on you and murska. or asking here if the factional is mandatory (to investigate murska's claim, after the supposed save, which wolves would know about exactly how it went down)

[dyachei]

is this just because she's been playing townsidey

because i'm not convinced at all when wisdom is known to bus a lot and we clearly know the last wolf has been townsiding to some degree, whoever it is

i linked a post a couple days ago from a wisdom wolfgame where her first serious vote/callout was on a partner

you think she busses all 3 partners d1? she has 3 wolves in her POE d1. I dont think that's just being a townsided wolf

[nebjiamn]

Is there actually a reason to think it's vanta? PoE doesn't really convince me when it's what, day 6? A wolf would have usually done something wolfy by now. I feel like there are countless reasons to think it's wisdom

what's your take on ender?

wisdom is kind of occupying the "wat is their wincon" space for me because some of what they've done feels twtbaw

[nebjiamn]

i kind of agree that vanta just doesn't feel like a wolf

maybe they are but their posts feel OK. the biggest thing i have against them is they aren't as villagery as others but i would not call them wolfy either

[dyachei]

gonna be honest idk what the fuck ender has been doing all game as either alignment

[Arctic]

what's your take on ender?

wisdom is kind of occupying the "wat is their wincon" space for me because some of what they've done feels twtbaw

my take on ender is that he is spewed town by gemma, reasonably confidently. felt like she pretty simply tmi'ing him all of day 1. and i still think his eod2 is villagery

i think the "what is their wincon" argument to townread wisdom is silly because vanta is doing nothing to advance their wincon either lol, neither is ender, so unless you think it's someone deeper then this point is moot

[Wisdom]

is this just because she's been playing townsidey

because i'm not convinced at all when wisdom is known to bus a lot and we clearly know the last wolf has been townsiding to some degree, whoever it is

i linked a post a couple days ago from a wisdom wolfgame where her first serious vote/callout was on a partner

Um
I don't think I've bussed d1 in like 2+ years but I could be misremembering ^^'