Tarot Mafia

[dyachei]

i wanna talk to someone about the spew but everyone's already set in their ways

[Maple]

im pretty tired but will engage with it when im awake enough lol

[Sunbae]

@Sunbae what do you think?

Just got back and will read more in a bit and tag you with results

[Sunbae]

maple who are the wolves

[Sunbae]

where i'm at roughly, tiers not ordered within (also an excuse to use [ glow] tags which are insanely cool)



~lock town (should be 0 wolves)
1. dyachei - vig claim aside just town off d1, but lock for the 'CC' on rask even tho he flipped neut and not wolf, functionally its near the same since the only real possibility was if rask flipped v then their roles were pretty incompatible
11. grr - my most confident read itg mech aside. i think lots of ppl have co-signed this dead/alive/town/wolf and i dont see the need to overthink this
13. insomnia - this high off day 1 mostly, dont think he'd bus syn when rask/sheep are viable wagons, especially when ladd/newc are pushing to resolve v!sheep and knights also has a good amount of v equity that could have been a 3rd counter. doesn't make sense meta wise and the rest of his posting is v good

v likely town (0-1w hopefully)
4. Vanta Black - prety villagery pop ins and feels distinctly different from her champs game. would like to see more out of them but i sorta think she may have been threadspewed v yesterday
9. Jan - vibes, playing towny, believable pr claim, shrug
21. Dolby (formerly C0balt). - idk i just read his posts and think town. if he were vagos i would say he makes good poasts

lean town but less sure? (0-1)
6. Sunbae - some meta stuff and general vibes, he hasn't pinged anything on my radar for how i read him but out of respect for his wolf game i am putting him in this tier cause as iaafr once said i'm "eternally pocketed" (I disagree and think that's a dumb ass read tbh but w/e)
10. gemma - idk going after stett as wolf just doesnt make sense to me but i could see myself being a sucker for this read. feels diff from last game they were a wolf too but low confidence
19. Montmorency - lots of posts around EOD1 and 2 that just make me wonder "why do this as a wolf?" -- they also make me wonder "why do it as a villager?" sometimes too but in general i think they've been good enough
20. Theknightsofneeee - had him in v likely town earlier but the lack of volume and impact yesterday made me drop him down just out of #thefear.

poe -> maybe woof (1-2 wolves)
8. ladd - pushing lots of villagers day 1 and 2 and didn't do anything with syn. he's soft pushed me a bit and a) he's like, almost never misread me and b) even if i dont hold him to the standard of A, there was like, 0 conviction with his push on me yesterday and was pretty limp and then changed his vote over to monty near eod while (i think?) defending rask. if mont is a wolf then its not that bad, but if he's v then he went from villa to villa day 2 after doing that day 1. he's also defended a few players i have wr'd at various points of the game, and i don't see how all those are true unless there's several misclears in my towncore. so either him or I are having a really rough game or he's a woof (or maybe we're both having ~OK games but we dont have the full picture to see that yet, idk!)
12. EnderWiggin - if i take his PR claim at FV then w/e but if i ignore that, i think he has a lot of pairing equity w/ ladd and wisdom. having said that, i do agree w/ ladd re: logic of claims coming out unlikely to have multiple wolves claiming after eachother and i get the feeling he'd coach against that so idt these 3 are like, hardly ever gonna be w/w/w.
14. Wisdom - claim seems out of place in relation to everything else tbh. some good posts day 1 but also some sus posts and day 2 was not great even disregarding the claim.

wolf
18. Maple - probly wolf KP tbh. claimed feedback at EOD. claimed self-resolution. self-resolving player dies, no feedback, fun

i know my bottom 4 poe is not w/w/w/w, or at least, its extremely unlikely, which means im misclearing at least 1 player in my lean towns so id like to focus discussion/challenges on my worldview around those 7 players today (with a preference for the ones in the lean town section but ill take what i can get)

Pulling this on its own before my post with more specific examples of posts

[Sunbae]

Bennehs day 1 posts about alive players. I'm making no commentary on them yet

About Wisdom:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

About Grrr

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

About Ender

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

(thats jumping on my Ender suspicion)

Benneh's day 2/3 posts about various people (i think this is in reverse order so read bottom up if you care about progressions in each)

Involving Knights:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

ladds read in knights is real bad imo and feels like widening the POE, esp since im who he’s pairing knights with

idk if i have the balls to do it and be wrong tho cause then im eating a vig shot in the face (or a launch)

idt you were ladd's main push d1, i would say it was sheep/knights, you were a side dish when the thread stagnated a bit. at least that's how i read things. ladd can feel free to clarify ig

and i've factored that in, but i don't have a strong village read on you so idt its fair or charitable for me to suggest you are also a reason ladd is a wolf in that world view when i know me/sheep are villagers, knights is likely one, but my confidence on you being one is pretty shaky at best. i could easily have things inverted between you/ladd so /shrug

i agree on dolby knights

can you talk to me about your ladd and jan reads cause they're two ppl i probly ned to sort out a bit more. from a pure game state pov with my other reads so far it feels like they aren't paired but there could def be a wolf in them and if there is i feel like it'd be more likely to be ladd than jan. i liked ladd's posting for most of yesterday though so idk game feels hard fmpov

this wouldnt be the first time he fooled me tbf but i also kinda wana take pride in being the sole v!ladd reader when ppl read him wrong lol

Involving wisdom:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I’ve had the thought but it was offset by me initially thinking they were likely w/w and manti was a better role

I’m not spewing every thot into the game thread right away at every chance given both the cap and general thread health reasons

To your last point I think there’s an interpretation translation issue because I’m not saying wisdoms posts were good. Just that manti wasn’t really teying much to wiggle out of the elim. If they are w/w and manti had the better power I’d expect he post better and wisdom would have somewhat conceded to dying earlier since they were really the only 2 wagons in consideration for most of today

yea i pondered that earlier. i think i was a bit thrown by how d2 played out and manti wanting one more day but that doesnt align with how they are playing today cause wisdom is like... trying and manti isnt?

if jan is real it shouldn't really matter since if they are w/w he can jail the other but im down to swap in case of shenanigans of some sort

im swamped at work so idk how realistic it is for me to make it back for eod again. sorry

vote: wisdom

i agree on wisdom's w equity and the out of placeness of the claim in relation to everything else. idrg it but she did fake claim as a wolf in a recent 12/12er i hosted where she claimed some kinda cop (vanilla cop or somethin idr) on d2 as and survived / won the game off that silliness. if i draw a parallel from that game to this one the a) apparently unnecessary claim timing and b) the believability of the role existing in the roleset given everything else we know (she claimed that cop when other investigative had been elim'd d1 and i think the other PR had a pseudo invest like a desperado or smth) line up with my perception of the current game state and her place in it.

the 3p!devil would make sense thematically as an arsonist but there's ~0% shot rask tried to fake claim a vig shot that wasn't his own and the rest of the apparent KP in the game doesn't align with an arsonist existing unless they ignited last night AND arctic... shot someone he was village reading

my worry is that maple is wolf KP and wisdom is a meh role/Goon particularly because how the self-resolving/attention drawing occurred and if w we look at another 2/3 deaths tomorrow. but in that world i feel like wisdom would be lolcatting to throw the lunch here and they seem content? maybe that's telling lol

maybe we flip it around and kill wisdom here and have jan jail/kill maple? idk

This also lends credence to wisdoms claim being weird

idk, I feel like an arsonist with firefighter being in the game with no role flips is kinda bastard maybe?? The more I think about it that feels like way too much info to withhold from town

not worth thinking about now but if wisdom is real it could also mean a 3p Arso

Remember on day 4 or smth

if there’s no arso I agree it’s probly to distract a potential MD/tracker. The game is role heavy so I could see that

if wisdom's a wolf ladd is probly also one

the 4th and 5th paragraph ping me as a bit appealy and excuse-y but you probly need to highlight or espouse what you are seeing here

i also think their read on you feels a bit bad faith lol but ymmv

@Wisdom why am i null now? i dont get your progression on me this game

unless im misremembering you had me as somewhat strong townlean d1 and not that i expect everyone to carry that water forever it feels weird i'm now null when i was mostly absent eod and afaict you haven't elaborated much (at least on me) since ?

Involving ender:

idrg the hate on my ender push

dude was wolfy and he was a PR so i'm validated :hmmyes:

its vibes mostly but originated just from stuff that didnt seem sincere to me

my impression of his v games here on the org is he makes more waves and i feel like he's done more drive bys and flurries that read surface level v than real insight. the game with hally as wolf most recently he was limited there in availability like this game, and i misread him but the vibes were still diff imo

idk how to elucidate on my read and im not sure its even worth it but i feel like ender is being weirdly ignored

like i doubt anyone's going to prioritize him today cause he's kind of a non-player in EOD and it feels like he doesn't resolve much either way but something about his posting just irks me

i think jan mentioned he had a 'villagery burst' or something and like, that's what every instance of him joining thread has felt like to me -- a burst of energy and then farewell ill see you next time when the energy on his v reads starts to run low

and like i get its on me to talk about it more or case him but i just dont have that energy rn. if someone wants to explain why he's town to me ill listen but every bit of his presence has seemed like a facade to me

Involving Gemma:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

@Sunbae i reread eod focusing on gemma a bit more beyond the iso and ... ya, sorry, not much changed

i wont be floored if they're a wolf but i still see little things that make me lean v? like i hear what you are saying but its not clicking for me

idt you were ladd's main push d1, i would say it was sheep/knights, you were a side dish when the thread stagnated a bit. at least that's how i read things. ladd can feel free to clarify ig

and i've factored that in, but i don't have a strong village read on you so idt its fair or charitable for me to suggest you are also a reason ladd is a wolf in that world view when i know me/sheep are villagers, knights is likely one, but my confidence on you being one is pretty shaky at best. i could easily have things inverted between you/ladd so /shrug

hmmm

i suppose there's a world where the vote onto syn serves a purpose if it builds up a rask/knights/sheep/gemma quadchotomy wagonfest heading into eod, as that would be 3 villas (from wolf pov) to counter sus on gemma, with a general sentiment assuming thread will lean into more established eod wagons rather than a syn cfd?

idk

@Sunbae reread gemma's eod and idrk what you don't like about it, be more specific? i came away with a better feeling after rereading a bit

these couple posts read like villagey frustration/pushback rather than a wolf but ymmv?











i also think her unvote off of knights who she's been wolfreading all day to counterbalance and join a burgeoning wagon on syn is a straight up good look, especially if we ride with the idea knights is town. i'm struggling to see that as a wolf tactic to try and spew/anti spew syn one way or another since gemma joined as 3rd and made the wagon real (if it wasn't already?)

Involving Insomnia:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

there's some stuff I want to look back on that ladd mentioned re: his interactions d1 with maple being somewhat clearing/unaligned. if that's true that might be a good way to read into ladd more

but idrt the way you're talking about his approach to syn/rask/elsewhere does much for me? to quote you, titans of werewolf were pushing on sheep/knights that EOD (ladd and newcomb) and if that's v/v ladd could have just assumed him doing that + voting gemma would be enough to get through d1 unscathed?



meta wise, he hates bussing in turbos and mashes and i'm pretty sure this also holds true in longform games. idt insom's vote is on syn in a place where it makes sense to consider syn dead-weight to the point a non-busser feels the need to softly bus/gain cred, and even if it was or we ignored that, i feel like his excuse wouldnt be so laissez faire about how he didn't read their posts or have an opinion. wolf!insom is more than capable and i think more likely to gather some kind of fake thoughts to push out a wolf hoping to grab cred like that.

ignoring meta, i just think his posting is like, good, and with some of the rambling and direction he's been taking the thread when writing his posts, they don't seem to be doing much for his team other than him being villa read here on d3 when we've hit 2 days in a row (albeit yesterday could be considered a 'win' for wolves, but w/e)

Involving Vanta:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

day 1 to day 2 I feel like there was a lot of caution around their slot from various players and several people commented (probly including me at some point) about how they would die to village KP almost certainly this game and the general sentiment was they were ==rand

and on day 2 ppl just started... clearing her, or at least, townleaning her and the discussion about them getting killed just kinda died down and i got the impression no one that's a villager really wolf read her for her posts, it was more just a volume thing, and no one that's a wolf felt like they could really push her or take that line cause they knew it would look pretty weird if/when vanta flips v and was seen as a LHF / lazy kill

its just a vibe of a gamestate read but my read doesn't hinge on that, it just bolsters it a bit

Including Maple:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I can’t find his tier list but ya I think he jus shoots maple

I think he had bop v but I’m on phone and can’t check

its also possible he targeted maple, who he sus quite a bit and died to a pgo/reflexive mill

can we just maj maple and kick back off tomorrow same time? lol

i think maple looks worse but i think its a very good chance they're w/w

ladd's pushes this game are not great but maple is like, very likely just wolf kp

Vote: maple


so much for feedback at EOD lol

?Vote: Maple

(that vote is on day 2)

I am extremely sus of the idea that anything is self resolving and confirmable

its a flipless game my dudes lol

Hmmm

Well, I was thinking rask but he also claimed

I’d lean maple rn but I kinda wanna see what happens over the. Text few hours

Vote: Raskolnikov


fine giving ender some space, would rather go rask than jan but could also vote maple ig

maple looks worst but i dont really know how much we glean anyway since syn popped up pretty quickly from what i can tell. i doubt wolves were capable of responding to that in any kind of strategic way regardless of rask's alignment

Including Mont:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

idrk mont, but i have him in my lean town but unsure pile. that stunt was just... empty and absurd but on level 1 i feel like he'd just not make that post as wolf?

i agree withy our sentiment written out tbh

i dont wana overplay mont's 'strategy' bone here but i feel like his strat as a syn!teammate entering day late and being around for EoD is to do anything but what he did. i dont really remember if ive seen him wolf so this might be a dumb read but this play lines up with my view of him as a villager around EoD and he doest strike me as someone that keeps that same process/tone as a wolf. i feel like he's prob way more straightforward as wolf and straight forward would be just voting someone else or spinning his wagon spiel without invoking syn

minor take that this isn't the case if ther's other wolves wagoned at eod and theres just malarkey going on where syn is the lamb wolves have to bus but i dont think its worth living in that world atm

can you summarize your thoughts on monte for me (or link me to where you talk about him?)

i liked his entrance yesterday after being gone all day

To Dolby (not about):

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

gotcha. makes sense but i honestly didn't even put two and two together what he meant by that post when i read it originally. i don't really agree fwiw cause the post seems more throwaway than attack-y. also i don't feel like wisdom was really in any kind of danger for the second half of your justification to really matter here? she was pretty town read yesterday and i doubt that post makes much of a dent to syn's mindset about how he can or can't adjust his read on wisdom on days 2/3/4

if we pretended syn didn't die (or flipped v) what would your read on wisdom be here for their own posting?

So here's the compilation of Benneh posts and I have a lot of thoughts on them but I want to write it out in a different post so this one isn't as long.


Please read through these

[Sunbae]

@dyachei

Benneh Spew Thoughts:

First, I believe that I have to ignore the chances that he was lost as, well, zero people have found that theory reasonable thus far.

Second, if I operate under that assumption the first thing I have to note is that I cannot envision Wisdom as a wolf with Benneh. There are so many posts going at Wisdom in that spoiler across two days without really relenting while also trying to defend himself from her at points. Even when given the option of Maple vs Wisdom, he is arguing that Wisdom is the better role and should die with a vote there. Note that if you believe it could be that its Benneh/Wisdom/Maple as a trio, we'll get to the Maple part and it's not looking any better for wolf reads there either. And at points he argues that maybe Maple is a wolf PR and should die first as well. He spends time trying to cite a recent game that Wisdom fake claimed as a wolf but "worries that Maple is wolf KP and wisdom is a meh role" before turning around a few posts later and arguing the opposite to vote Wisdom. The point is: Benneh wanted Wisdom to die. Claims Wisdoms claim is weird. Says she's fakeclaimed recently. Is goading Stett into championing a wolf read on Wisdom with the whole "oh yeah those paragraphs do ping me they are a bit appealy and excuse-y but youuuuu need to explain more to make others see it" post. Also before the shift onto Wisdom harder he is asking why Wisdom wolfreads him now despite villa reading him earlier. It reads to me that he's trying to get wisdom killed for two days shifting arguments around to whatever fits and trying to push the major pushing onto vocal villagers. Which, note, is how I'm reading his jumping onto me about Ender early.

Third, to continue on Maple benneh is just going ham on Maple from day 2. Immediately called Maple's Syn vote the worst on day 2, says he could vote Maple instead of Rask, Leans maple again when Rask claims, immediately dismisses Maple's idea that they are self-confirmable with "its a flipless game my dudes lol i am extremely sus of the the idea that anything is self resolving". We are operating under the assumption that if Maple is a wolf it's a mega kill role given the desire to live day 2, the many deaths day 3, etc. Which doesn't track with Benneh THEN voting Maple after the claim on day 2. Then starts up day 3 with a vote there. Calls maple wolf KP. Wants to make the wagons Maple/Ladd. Wants to maj Maple. Says arctic probably shot maple in an effort to shade Maple. Twice. Like, similar to the Wisdom stuff, Benneh is trying really, really, really hard to kill Maple for multiple days. And if Benneh is a pack wolf I am not seeing it be w/w.


Which means, scarily, I am of the opinion that Maple/Wisdom are v/v. Which is a really, really hard thing to push forward because so many people have wanted both dead and so many people have watched the two of them skate through multiple elims when they looked certain to die. Well, multiple for Maple. One for wisdom I guess.

But as I read the thread and read the spew I just .. that's what I think sorry. I also think Wisdom is hard to be a wolf from her own posting even ignoring Benneh! As I posted earlier.


Fourth, which brings us to: where are the wolves then. I think the wolves are in Knights, Dolby, Mont, Gemma, Grr, and Vanta.


The way that Benneh jumped on Ender day one trying to springboard on my suspicion there does not strike me as teamed. Insom has Ender as the would-lose-the-game-to villager. Ender's posting as I read earlier was villagery. The way Benneh validates his Ender push with "he was a PR so im validated" makes me pretty certain Ender is actually a PR. I also think Benneh calling ender "weirdly ignored" and bringing him up on his own is less likely to be teamed (not impossible, but coupled with everything else I am thinking unlikely.


The way Benneh described the Insomnia village read strikes me as a read he just thinks is obvious and is trying to get correct points on. Outside of that he barely discusses Insomnia. Doesn't try to distance at all. Plus, so many dead villagers had Insom locked V that I'm rolling with it.


I'm also rolling with Grr v for the same reasons. Benneh rarely mentioned Grr d2/d3 except to +1 villa reads there but all dead villas were locking Grr too. Plus general villagery posting right?

So that leaves: Knights, Dolby, Mont, Vanta

I think the way benneh talked to Dolby is wolfy. It reads like a quick interaction neither player gives a shit about because they aren't worried about the response coming.

I think Benneh swapping to Ladd (some say outing but I was voting before then PEW PEW) makes a hell of a lot of sense with Ladd coming at Knights with Benneh being teamed with Knights. Calls Ladd's Knights read "widening the poe", calls Knights a likely villager, hits a very similar " oh i agree buddy! can you talk about ladd/jan i need to sort them out!" tone to Knights as he does with Dolby and I'm not really seeing it anywhere else. Basically, just kind of had basic interactions with Knights that are concerning to me ESPECIALLY given I was always concerned about Knights once Benneh flipped given the whole "kept tying me/benneh together but shaded me and propped up benneh when he did" thing I mentioned.


He calls Vanta threadspewed V but thats really it. Very concerned how he asked me to elaborate on Mont when I started v reading but not in an hmmm weird way but almost in a "yes, elaborate on that lets manifest that mont v read in the t hread" way.

I'm not saying it's Knights/Dolby/Mont I'm just saying that's where I lean right now but I gotta check more stuff out.

[Sunbae]

So here's the issue:

Am I willing to bet the game on this Wisdom/Maple v/v read I have?

Ugh idk. Watching all the dead villagers roll in after losing to Wisdom or Maple would make me feel like I failed. They've been adamant that those two need to die and it would be incredibly selfish to just say nah to that.

But also, that's just ... what I believe? and I have more information now than they did when they died. So maybe I am supposed to roll with it. Trust myself and my ability to read players. I've never been afraid of looking silly (side note: me saying things that are wild or silly is a good way to town read me because I'm way more hesitant to say things like that as a wolf when as a villager I just believe it and go) but I'm also washed and rusty you know so bleh. Also, I don't even know if I have the threadpull to convince anyone anyways if I want to shield.

I wish I did it for Ladd. Is it just overcorrecting to do it now? It's tough spot for me.

[Sunbae]

Now I need to read the rest of the players from the other direction and see what makes sense.

And check how many posts I have left

[Gemma]

on the off chance ur v sunbae, i think saying anyone benneh pushed or wolfread is v when not doing so would have been pushing against consensus is just kind of insane

afaict ur living in a universe where distancing and bussing doesnt exist

so like

nothing you just wrote means anything to me, other than i think its all wolfy

[Maple]

yeah we're on a pretty similar page, sunbae

for what it's worth, with 12 alive and presumably 9-3 ratio remaining, we have at minimum 1 miss, 2 if theyre out of KP

im going over your stuff and cross referencing my notes.

meow meow meow

[Sunbae]

Every knights post that mentions benneh

apparently i can't read and just processed that colonel is bopolis

good to know

he's probably > rand villa then but only slightly.

benneh also slightly > rand villa.

think cobalt's recent posting is p good (specially posts #76 and #82)

newcomb not giving a fuck about the game except about if colonel is gh feels slightly villagery (and also newcomb/bop are unlikely w/w)

after rereading bop/benneh's interactions, it felt very natural and meme'y and good and i don't want to kill either of them atm

initially liked syn pushing bop (colonel), but now that i'm villa reading bop i like it less.






Villagers

knights

didistetter
cobalt

colonel lubricator (bop)
nebjiamn (benneh)

gun to head villagers

newcomb
syn

Wolves

dyachei



and with that, good night

@ whoever asked about my benneh read (raskov I think?)

its literally just i liked how he interacted with bop

relatively low confidence but the vibes were good

I skimmed/looked for my own name on catchup so i haven't fully processed the thread tbqh

my general thoughts are that i still feel pretty good about my earlier villa reads, i think benneh's hangup on wisdom talking about your first post feels like villa!benneh, I think sheep had a villagery post that you quoted which i need to reread and process my feelings on, i liked arctic's entrance a lot, think newcomb is significantly more villagery now, and I hate ladd's wolf read on me because it feels not very fleshed out, and like he's just wolf reading me after general thread perception on me soured and he's just trying to add more pressure, so I think of the people pushing me he is currently most likely to be a wolf.

something about enderwiggen pinged me but tbh i don't remember what it was and i've never played with them so i'll probably jsut let that go

okay lets go point by point

1) just talked about that

2) I disagree bop was more villagery, i think bop's game related stuff was pretty whatever, and my villa reads on both of them were purely tone/interaction based, and because the interactions were with each other, i put them in the same tier.

(i think benneh is more villagery now but thats besides the point.)

3) the timing of the read syn gave felt right in the thread, I remember agreeing with it as I read it and felt it was a villagery thought, but obviously if i have a villa read on bop by the time i'm putting pen to paper about the read, that will color how strong my read on syn is because I now think its a wolf read on a villager. Plus syn's read was literally just a one sentence read on page 2 or whatever, it would have never gotten more than light villa read anyways.

4) /shrug emoji/ oh well. I did actually end up reading them on my phone while in bed but they weren't worth another post and tbh i was falling asleep in my comp chair while writing the reads post so my brain was just too fried to process those.


I don't think any of these should be real sticking points in your mind tbh.

maybe the sheep one i guess, but me not giving a read on sheep is probably more villa indicative of me than anything else i've done, because i would absolutely have made something up there if I was a wolf because i knew people would expect me to have a read on sheep

these 2 posts are what i'm talking about

i especially liked the bold

(click through, the one above is about benneh)

As an unintentional theme this game, I am really valuing people getting hung up on things I think are super villagers to get hung up on.

Benneh getting hung up on the wisdom(?) stuff about didistetter was pretty villagers and his tone has been really good.

Sure he’s low quantity of content but he’s not being actively wolfy, and sunbae has been just as low content, but hasn’t had a shining moment of billageriness that I usually get/feel from villa sunbae.

He is LACKING.

okay i'm here lets do this shit

where to start where to start...



Where i'm at before a full day 2 read/reread.

gonna look into ladd/jan's day 2 and see where i'm at on both of them (i have read their day 2's but not digested them so i want to see if that changes my reads on them)

want to look into sunbae more

want to look into vanta/mont and sort them

currently have

dya/benneh/maple/didi/dolby/bop/wisdom (after the claim)/insomnia/gemma all as villagers

want to kill outside of that group, and while I def lean jan personally atm, i honestly haven't looked at many others closely enough yet to really strongly advocate for jan over those atm


i think the syn wagon is mostly clean (with the exception of maybe arctic), all the votes felt villagery and not forced, and even bop/dya's votes on syn felt good too.

benneh is the villa read i'm softening on the most with time, but i haven't really read his day 2 yet so i'll do that first before I potentially move him in my reads.

anyone have questions/comments/concerns pls ask/tag me, and I will respond as I get to it.

read benneh iso

liked his treatment of Sunbae (following up on his stated read about sunbae being a collaborator as a villager), agree with him on dya being obvious villa, and think he's pushing in the right areas (ender/jan/raskol) but I would maybe argue that he doesn't feel like he's inquisitive/probing enough this game, more that he's an observer/commenter than a wolf hunter.

still would put him as a villa lean, but not in top tier villas.

[Sunbae]

hmm,

yeah i think ill go ~ anything else now glgl gemma

[Wisdom]

Vote: Wisdom

I will jail Maple and you can assume I will execute.

We will have a night talk of course but this is where I stand right now and big things need to happen for that to change. (actual hard confirmation that the village can comprehend even if I die).

I know I'm a broken record but this should be outing for Maple. The only reason I can see this not going through is if Jan got roleblocked and the only reason to roleblock him would be to save Maple.

Yeah Maple is going full swing all wim now that we're closing in on lategame. This isn't new to w!him.

[Wisdom]

w!Maple being hard to kill does not make him town.

[Gemma]

I know I'm a broken record but this should be outing for Maple. The only reason I can see this not going through is if Jan got roleblocked and the only reason to roleblock him would be to save Maple.

Yeah Maple is going full swing all wim now that we're closing in on lategame. This isn't new to w!him.

i mean, wolves can save v!maple with a roleblock to make it look like a fake guilty

but then maple would come into thread and say idk why im alive jan said he would kill me

[Gemma]

hmm,

yeah i think ill go ~ anything else now glgl gemma

oh sorry

if it tilts u for me to say i w read u i can just skip that part in the future

[Sunbae]

zero to do with wolfreading me, tilted at it being like the third time youve treated me like an idiot
can express disagreement without being condescending and rude

[Vanta Black]

@Vanta Black

I am ready for the very outlandish theory

Well it was gonna be how I deduced that dya/nebjiamn were wolves together, based on...but never mind that now.

[Vanta Black]

...
The best reason to vote Wisdom IME is to clear Gemma.

Sometimes I undertand voting xxxx to clear xxxx, but not usually, and not this time. Why do need to clear Gemma?

[Vanta Black]

Arggggh

Sometimes I undertand voting xxxx to clear xxxx, but not usually, and not this time. Why do YOU need to clear Gemma?

(if you could see what my computer is doing right now

[Wisdom]

Sunbae/Gemma not w/w you heard it here first!

[Gemma]

zero to do with wolfreading me, tilted at it being like the third time youve treated me like an idiot
can express disagreement without being condescending and rude

oh im sorry, i wasnt aware it came off that way, mb boss

[Gemma]

fwiw idk when u think i may have treated u that way previously but i dont think ur one at all my only perception of u is that ur a savvy and experienced mafia player

[Gemma]

@Vanta Black whyd u vote ladd

whos a villager etc

[Sunbae]

Ok, we're good.

My mistake for reading it a different way than intended. Apologies for being frustrated on my end too.

I'll get back at the thread in the am

[Wisdom]

i think maple looks worse but i think its a very good chance they're w/w

ladd's pushes this game are not great but maple is like, very likely just wolf kp

Does anyone know what Ben's relationship to bussing is?

Like, the moment Maple claimed self resolving he was a dying slot, so Ben bussing him to go deep makes sense.
I don't know why he changed his mind and went Ladd though, maybe he wanted to sac himself to make sure the arsonist got another ignite and didn't think Dya would shoot him.

[Gemma]

Ok, we're good.

My mistake for reading it a different way than intended. Apologies for being frustrated on my end too.

I'll get back at the thread in the am

[Gemma]

sunbae if u rly believe maple is a villager can u talk about why u think jan would have not killed

i cant make sense of a world where jan doesnt execute there

cuz imo spew and whatever else is basically secondary to that

and also wrt ur spew reads i just dont see u taking into account that benneh could be bussing / talking about what makes his pushes on wisdom/maple distinctly nonbussy and taking the context of those pushes within their gamestate into account

eg ur saying benneh pushing maple super hard day 2 makes maple v except everyone thought maple was outed day 2 no?

in maple/benneh worlds what else is benneh meant to do there

im also vaguely aware of benneh having hellbussed before and sure i think its like baseline a good look for ppl benneh def wanted to kill but the leap to clearing slots off spew alone is another thing, idk maybe im just blind to the truth

i tried to write this in as neutral language as possible rather than the usual wild shit is ay to entertain myself hope it worked

[Gemma]

in case its not clwear, we are the birds engaging in villainy against children idk it was more camaraderie-y in my head