Discussion over moderation of spam (moved)

[Maion Maroneios]

Hmmm, am I smelling something or is it just me... I think it's the smell of the thread being closed due to Ibrahim's last comment. Please people, don't even mention anything in the likes of LS or balloons either.

Sorry guys, I just couldn't help it.

Maion

(Edit by bovi: This was in response to a post here)

[Ibrahim]

Hmmm, am I smelling something or is it just me... I think it's the smell of the thread being closed due to Ibrahim's last comment. Please people, don't even mention anything in the likes of LS or balloons either.

Sorry guys, I just couldn't help it.

Maion

sorry-my bad. no harm was intended out of it

[Maion Maroneios]

sorry-my bad. no harm was intended out of it

It's not me who was offended by it, I was just being sarcastic about the fact that all these stuff tend to lead to thread locking very very quickly lately.

Maion

[Pontius Pilate]

It's not me who was offended by it, I was just being sarcastic about the fact that all these stuff tend to lead to thread locking very very quickly lately.

Maion

well, not really. he didn't really say anything that would cause this thread to be closed. you're the one who brought up balloons and LS. and I've seen more often than not, that once someone starts talking about the thread getting closed, it gets closed.

[bovi]

Hmmm, am I smelling something or is it just me... I think it's the smell of the thread being closed due to Ibrahim's last comment. Please people, don't even mention anything in the likes of LS or balloons either.

Sorry guys, I just couldn't help it.

Maion

Balloons are in general okay. In that other thread the discussion was not friendly, and also it spammed a serious topic.

[Maion Maroneios]

I understand that discussions involving balloons, LS or the like must be very irritating to see all the time bovi, it's just that sometimes I believe you are a little too strict. Not just you, but the rest of the moderators too. But that's me, of course. I mean, even in the most serious of discussions there is room for humor or off-topic comments!

Maion

[bovi]

You're free to think so. I have seen the state of the forums before the mass of spamming came, the state when it came and was not moderated, and the state after it was moderated. I much prefer the former state, however I'll settle for the latter when that is no longer possible.

Scores in that thread before I took affair:
Posts about steppe warrior pictures - 8
Woot - 1
Balloons - 13
Other - 2

Okay, I forgot one post somewhere, so I guess you can chalk one more up for on-topic if you like. Do you see the trend?

Edit: Anyway, as this is way off-topic, we can take any further discussion over PM.

[Pontius Pilate]

You're free to think so. I have seen the state of the forums before the mass of spamming came, the state when it came and was not moderated, and the state after it was moderated. I much prefer the former state, however I'll settle for the latter when that is no longer possible.

Scores in that thread before I took affair:
Posts about steppe warrior pictures - 8
Woot - 1
Balloons - 13
Other - 2

Okay, I forgot one post somewhere, so I guess you can chalk one more up for on-topic if you like. Do you see the trend?

Edit: Anyway, as this is way off-topic, we can take any further discussion over PM.

so what was the forum like before the "mass spamming" came. was everthing "enlightened conversation" and what are those statistics about??

[Aemilius Paulus]

so what was the forum like before the "mass spamming" came. was everthing "enlightened conversation" and what are those statistics about??

If you want to see how it was like before the spamming, you should just check the early history of this forum by going back to the erliest threads. For me, this forum has 240 pages. You might have different settings on, but this forums is still pretty sizable. Beleive me, [bovi[/B] is right. I have seen that trend myself as I was reading the past threads, starting from threads #1. I have actually seen threads whose only purpose was spam and nothing else. Most of the threads during that "middle phase" degenerated into spam, and I have even seen the EB team members join the spamfest

Check this thread out:https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=93993. The thread starts out badly disguised as spam, but eventually, the people participating in it simply post SPAM in all caps and various fonts just for the sake of spam and increasing the number of posts they have. Even Tellos Athenaios and bovi participated in spamming.

Or this: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=56169

As for those statistics, I believe they came from the "Pictures of Steppe Warriors" thread: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=109741, that came very close to being locked. The moderators of this forum are actually pretty nice as moderators go. They allow so many things that they could have just locked.

[Hax]

Well, it's true that some months ago, moderation was less harsh. See; closing of EB Tavern.

[Pontius Pilate]

If you want to see how it was like before the spamming, you should just check the early history of this forum by going back to the erliest threads. For me, this forum has 240 pages. You might have different settings on, but this forums is still pretty sizable. Beleive me, [bovi[/B] is right. I have seen that trend myself as I was reading the past threads, starting from threads #1. I have actually seen threads whose only purpose was spam and nothing else. Most of the threads during that "middle phase" degenerated into spam, and I have even seen the EB team members join the spamfest

Check this thread out:https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=93993. The thread starts out badly disguised as spam, but eventually, the people participating in it simply post SPAM in all caps and various fonts just for the sake of spam and increasing the number of posts they have. Even Tellos Athenaios and bovi participated in spamming.

Or this: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=56169

As for those statistics, I believe they came from the "Pictures of Steppe Warriors" thread: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=109741, that came very close to being locked. The moderators of this forum are actually pretty nice as moderators go. They allow so many things that they could have just locked.

the first two links I can see are totally spam, and that's what one would think when they hear the word spam. but I don't know how the "Pictures of Steppe Warriors" thread comes even close to those. So if a thread goes a little off topic, it is considered spam? Is there some way that you measure this? how much OT is too much OT? The threads nowadays may not be as "enlightened" as the old ones, but why do they all have to be considered spam? most of us are after all just people, and not scholars, so I don't know how "enlightened" our conversations can be.

[Maion Maroneios]

Wow, wait a minute. When did I create a thread like this? Who did this, I wonder? Sure didn't like it, it's like violation of my privacy. A sincere to the one who did this, really.

Maion

[Foot]

bovi did. He closed the other thread but allowed this avenue of discussion to be continued by moving the associated posts to this thread.

Foot

[Maion Maroneios]

I didn't want to continue any discussion. He could create a new thread of his own, not present me as someone who attacks the EB moderators because he believes things should be less strict. If I wanted to create a thread like this, I would have done so myself. Even a simple mention would be ok with me, but this... No. Plus, I didn't continue this back at the other thread.

Maion

[Foot]

This thread isn't about you. Other people thought it was a subject worth talking about. Yours was the first post that occured in the discussion. If you want to make a complaint PM bovi and ask him to change it.

Foot

[Maion Maroneios]

I was hoping it would be obvious to him from the beginning. This thread may not be about me, but it says I'm the thread creator, which I don't like.

Maion

[Foot]

as I said, PM him about it.

Foot

[Maeran]

I think that your position in the creation of this thread is quite clear to all now Maion.

Ideally, this thread would be closed and allowed to drop off the front page before a fresh and new discussion (which I note that Bovi and presumably Foot consider it necessary to have discussed) could be created that is clearer.

However this isn't all that practical, so I shall try to shove this onto topic and get this over and done with.

Moderation is a time consuming and thankless task that is necessary if there is a tendency (and there was- you can check the threads linked above, and those of equivalent date) to produce threads that are so far out from where the forum is intended to be that they are simply wasting server space.

On the other hand, overmoderation can stifle a forum and make it somewhere that people do not want to go.

Personally, I think that this place is the best place I have ever been for discussing the ancient world, and my posts have reflected that. But then it is also a forum dedicated specifically to a modification of a video game and so must reflect this more than anything.

It's not a nice subject. And I don't know if I have helped or hindered with this long winded post. But I would rather give room for its discussion here than let the situation topple wither toward total chaos or overmoderated death. Why? Because I like the place, shucks.

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

Has anyone noticed how the spam threads here are incredibly entertaining?

I loled all my way into, through and out of them. The first time I saw Bartix, months ago, I thought my head would fall from my shoulders.

[bovi]

To be precise, I thought the posts moved here had sufficiently derailed the thread they were in to warrant a split, so the original thread could continue in its purpose. I didn't close it and have no intention of it. I said that any further discussion could be taken by PM, it was disregarded (not by Maion) and a fair number of posts came in reply, so I moved the whole discussion here to a new thread as there was obviously a wish to discuss it and I do not want to censor it.

Maion's post was the first one to concern this, and the meaning of the rest would be lost without it as a reference. I also edited his post to reflect what I did. I don't know how I could possibly change the author of the first post.

[Maion Maroneios]

I see. Well, you can continue this discussion as long as you want. I have no intention to do so myself, but I understand why this thread was created this way.

Maion

[NeoSpartan]

Well.... here is my take on it....

I have no issues with shutting down spam. As I don't see the funny side of them, they just annoy me. (I was about to say something about the balloon thing on the Steppes thread but bovi/foot got ahead of me)

[blitzkrieg80]

if an intelligent conversation cannot be had then don't have it. it doesn't even have to be an attempt at scholarship, but the balloon nonsense is just too much! you guys are inventing a fictional system of patting yourselves on the back and group-hugging? please grow up or take it elsewhere. the reason the threads are closed is because it is a signal to STOP DOING IT - get a clue. NOTE the words spoken by Foot recently, something like "I don't know what this has to do with EB" - if it isn't about EB, we don't want your spam, thanks anyways, seriously thanks, but NO THANKS. You can have discussions on what defines spam all you want and how arbitrary we all judge it, but we don't need or want it here- this section of the forum is for our work and fans, concerning the work too - EB MOD (rather than us as the team), and if we allow off-topic discussion it is for the sake of worthwhile discussion of a related nature - the EB forum is NOT your social outlet and this is NOT group therapy. Life is not fair. I am very sure that you wouldn't start with this nonsense in a police-station or mental ward, because there are more severe consequences. Take your crazy somewhere else, we have enough already (and ON TOPIC!).

[bovi]

Actually, no thread has ever been closed due to balloons. Some have been closed due to clique behaviour though.

[Aemilius Paulus]

Some have been closed due to clique behaviour though.

Would you mind showing me an example of a thread that got closed for that reason? I am a bit puzzled how that could happen on this forum. Unless of course you are talking about the past locked EB Taverns that were on these forums.

BTW, why wasn't the EB Tavern created as a social group after the first Tavern thread was locked anyway? There were two EB Taverns (if not more) on this forum, right?

To tell you the truth, I thought this thread was going to be locked in two minutes after I saw it pop up, but just the fact that it is still open just shows how tolerant and "democratic" the moderators are.

[Hax]

BTW, why wasn't the EB Tavern created as a social group after the first Tavern thread was locked anyway? There were two EB Taverns (if not more) on this forum, right

Because the EB Tavern I was closed during a time of much spam. Then, when it cooled down a bit, Urnamma opened the Tavern II. Then, when spame rose again, it got closed again, which led to the creation of the social group (after some business in the Frontroom).

[a completely inoffensive name]

If you want to talk about off topic stuff you can always join the EB Tavern (social group). Not trying to advertise here but just saying.... if people know about it, it could reduce the amount of off topic threads and posts in the EB forums.

[Aemilius Paulus]

If you want to talk about off topic stuff you can always join the EB Tavern (social group).

I want to talk of topic, that much is true, but the Tavern is waaaay off topic. Half of the time the stuff you guys talk(ed) about is just pure "blah, blah, blah" with no real meaning. Spam is the most appropriate word for it. As a matter of fact, i would not even classify tat as talking, just a bunch of guys blabbering. The backroom is really the place to talk about "off-topic" stuff. Either this or yours and my ideas of what's "off topic" are different. Unless of course the social group Tavern is different. If it is different, than please tell me how (preferably via PM - no need to go off-topic on this thread).

[Foot]

watch out about the constructive criticism thing, it is not very welcome by this forum or the EB team. that's why so many people get flamed for it.

Show me somewhere where we have flamed someone who has given genuine constructive criticism of the mod. Back up your statement, retract it, or leave.

Foot

Edit by bovi: This post and its responses are moved here from this thread.

[Pontius Pilate]

Show me somewhere where we have flamed someone who has given genuine constructive criticism of the mod. Back up your statement, retract it, or leave.

Foot

that's the thing, anything I would consider genuine criticism, you would consider spam. so no matter what I put up you would find in some way, to say that it is not genuine. you do have to admit that when people second guess EB, like when they ask if Pannonian cavalry will be in the game, you respond quite harshly. also, if someone were to say that they would like to have unique marching sounds for the Romans in EB II, it would also be a little harsh for an EB team member to respond with cursing and vulgar in his post.


also, when you say "leave", you mean leave the thread right? I surely don’t hope you are suggesting to me or other moderators that I should permanently leave the EB forum and the Org. right? because if this is the case, well I have to say I am not intimidated one bit.