The Final US Election Thread

[Lemur]

Well, if they make Hillary Clinton SecState, I seriously hope they've got some managerial talent to back her up, 'cause so far Sen. Clinton has been a disaster at running organizations. Let's just say that the Assistant Secretary had better be sharp as a knife.

[PBI]

Obama "could stop using email".

The paper quotes aides saying that his e-mails, sometimes sent as late as 0100 or 0300, were "generally crisp, properly spelled and free of symbols or emoticons".

I find this somehow reassuring. Whatever kind of president Obama may turn out to be, he is not a LOLer.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Well, if they make Hillary Clinton SecState, I seriously hope they've got some managerial talent to back her up, 'cause so far Sen. Clinton has been a disaster at running organizations. Let's just say that the Assistant Secretary had better be sharp as a knife.

State, even more than most of the other bureacratic monoliths of our government, seems to do what it intends to do without much reference for the SecState.

[drone]

The tubes are safe, convicted felon Ted Stevens has lost his Senate reelection bid.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?hpid=topnews

And apparently Eric Holder will be tapped for Attorney General.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?hpid=topnews

As a former judge and top federal prosecutor in the District of Columbia, Holder has extensive experience with the criminal justice system. He is widely known within the city's legal community and for his philanthropic work on behalf of troubled juveniles detained at the Oak Hill facility. In recent years he defended corporations as a partner at the Covington & Burling law firm, and he took an active role in the presidential campaign after befriending Obama at a dinner party.

Over the course of his career, Holder has won praise from lawmakers on both sides of the aisle, though his selection is likely to revive questions about his inability to prevent a last-minute pardon of fugitive financier Marc Rich, who won relief from President Bill Clinton during his final day in office in 2001.

[Lemur]

And apparently Eric Holder will be tapped for Attorney General.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?hpid=topnews

You say "attorney Eric Holder," I say "notorious space smuggler and outlaw refinery operator Lando Calrissian."

[drone]

You say "attorney Eric Holder," I say "notorious space smuggler and outlaw refinery operator Lando Calrissian."

Got any pics of Holder shilling for Colt .45?

[ICantSpellDawg]

I've changed my opinion on Hillary as Secretary of State. It means that she will be a White House mouthpiece - not her own creature.

It will also mean that her Senate Seat will be up for grabs in 2 years. Until then, we will have a an unelected Senator appointed by an unelected Governor in the State of NY. Weeeeee

I'd bet Cuomo the younger runs for her seat. Maybe Rudy would run for the GOP?

[CountArach]

It will also mean that her Senate Seat will be up for grabs in 2 years. Until then, we will have a an unelected Senator appointed by an unelected Governor in the State of NY. Weeeeee

Haha, that's awesome

I'd bet Cuomo the younger runs for her seat. Maybe Rudy would run for the GOP?

Yeah I wouldn't be surprised if Rudy runs - I also wouldn't be surprised if he gets utterly flogged.

[ICantSpellDawg]

Haha, that's awesome

Yeah I wouldn't be surprised if Rudy runs - I also wouldn't be surprised if he gets utterly flogged.

Rudy will poll both the Governorship and Senate. I bet he'll go for Governor, but if Bloomberg does too, Rudy may go Senate.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Rudy will poll both the Governorship and Senate. I bet he'll go for Governor, but if Bloomberg does too, Rudy may go Senate.

Bloomberg will run to knock Rudy out -- regardless of which office Rudy seeks -- and will do so. Giuliani is done -- but should earn nice money on the lecture circuit.

[ICantSpellDawg]

Bloomberg will run to knock Rudy out -- regardless of which office Rudy seeks -- and will do so. Giuliani is done -- but should earn nice money on the lecture circuit.

Is he done? I'm not sure - I know that he is a successful, 64 year old, NY Republican who is pro-abortion. Why is he a non-entity?

There are two major posts opening up as we speak. Democrats now control the Presidency, the Senate, The House, The State Senate, The State Assembly, the two NY National Senate Seats, 26 of 29 State congressional seats. NY is a one party state under the influence of a one party federal system.

The current Governor is transitional, the Second Senate spot will be transitional.

Giuliani is a big name. New Yorkers like him to this day often cross party. Republicans have no seats to screw up.

I think that New Yorkers will wake up to the reality that their leadership is half-unelected and all Democrat. Scandal will begin to take its toll.

I think that Giuliani has a shot in NY at any position that he wants. I thought he was dead in the water nationally.

If Bloomberg runs for Governor against Patterson I would suggest that Giuliani run for Senate.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Is he done? I'm not sure - I know that he is a successful, 64 year old, NY Republican who is pro-abortion. Why is he a non-entity?.

The Florida primary

There are two major posts opening up as we speak. Democrats now control the Presidency, the Senate, The House, The State Senate, The State Assembly, the two NY National Senate Seats, 26 of 29 State congressional seats. NY is a one party state under the influence of a one party federal system.

The current Governor is transitional, the Second Senate spot will be transitional.

Giuliani is a big name. New Yorkers like him to this day often cross party. Republicans have no seats to screw up.

I think that New Yorkers will wake up to the reality that their leadership is half-unelected and all Democrat. Scandal will begin to take its toll.

I think that Giuliani has a shot in NY at any position that he wants. I thought he was dead in the water nationally.

If Bloomberg runs for Governor against Patterson I would suggest that Giuliani run for Senate.

Giuliani has a shot, but I don't believe the odds favor him. He peaded in October of 2001 and has traded on it for too long. He isn't a conservative at a time when his party is likely to swing back in that direction and there are too many other actual liberals New Yorkers can vote for. The GOP will have to write off everything North of the Delaware for 6+ years -- I don't think Rudy will buck that trend.

[ICantSpellDawg]

The Florida primary



Giuliani has a shot, but I don't believe the odds favor him. He peaded in October of 2001 and has traded on it for too long. He isn't a conservative at a time when his party is likely to swing back in that direction and there are too many other actual liberals New Yorkers can vote for. The GOP will have to write off everything North of the Delaware for 6+ years -- I don't think Rudy will buck that trend.

I don't think so.

The Florida primary is not a reasonable gauge. It was closed primary for one, so only registered Republicans could vote. Republicans in Florida tend to be socially Conservative.

I never understood why Giuliani thought that he would do well there in the Primaries - the general maybe, but the primaries? Against Conservative Republicans?

NY is very different. We all like Giuliani. He is a Regional politician and is very good at it. Conservative Republicans WILL vote for Rudy and so will independents. Many Democrats will as well, especially against a no name. He doesn't infuriate anyone and most people like him.

He was chronically overestimated in the primaries and now people are going to chronically underestimate him in NY politics

[Crazed Rabbit]

Hee-hee, not even a month past the election and the netroots are already getting their panties in a bunch:

Kos:

But there's also disdain for the American electorate that voted in overwhelming numbers for change from the discredited Bush/McCain/Lieberman policies. But in a city known for tone-deafness, there clearly isn't a more tone-deaf group than the Senate Dems.

I'm done with Reid as Senate leader.

A Kos commenter:

I hope Reid is as forgiving

when we all support his primary challenger.

Stoller:

I sort of get tired of making this point, but Democratic leaders are often not on our side, they often don't agree with us, and it's foolish to consider them as teammates. They aren't.

Sirota:

With its congressional majority, the Democratic Party has refused to seriously try to end the war, to stop the bailout and to stop the trampling of civil liberties, just to name a few off the top of my head. In fact, with their votes, they have aggressively worked to start and continue the war, pass the bailout and destroy our constitutional rights to privacy. So, are we really surprised that they have rewarded Joe Lieberman with a chairmanship that he can use to investigate the president he said poses a danger to America?

Jane Hamsher, on the phone with Howard Dean:

JANE HAMSHER: With all due respect, Governor Dean, we were all just told to go screw ourselves. That our concern for Barack Obama and that our concern about the war and everything else that we fought so hard for within the Democratic Party is meaningless.

Those people are hilarious! Its like they think they, the left fringe, are the democratic party! And then there's the people who want Darcy Burner to run again against Reichert, after she lost twice in some of the biggest democratic years in recent decades! Guess you just can't fix stupid.

CR

[CountArach]

It reminds me of some infighting a certain party did after a certain Vice-President was picked...

Seriously CR - give it a rest. You accuse everyone else on this forum of Partisan hackery - take a good, hard look in the mirror.

[Hosakawa Tito]

I don't think so.

The Florida primary is not a reasonable gauge. It was closed primary for one, so only registered Republicans could vote. Republicans in Florida tend to be socially Conservative.

I never understood why Giuliani thought that he would do well there in the Primaries - the general maybe, but the primaries? Against Conservative Republicans?

NY is very different. We all like Giuliani. He is a Regional politician and is very good at it. Conservative Republicans WILL vote for Rudy and so will independents. Many Democrats will as well, especially against a no name. He doesn't infuriate anyone and most people like him.

He was chronically overestimated in the primaries and now people are going to chronically underestimate him in NY politics

I agree with Seamus that Giuliani's chances at Hillary's senate seat are not good. He lost that seat to Clinton and the Dems in 2000, and NY, especially NYC, is dominatingly Democrat Party territory.
Giuliani also angered his own party by endorsing Gov. Cuomo instead of backing Pataki in 1994, and party disloyalty is never forgiven. As mayor he was quite divisive, except for his handling of the 2001 WTC attack, so Rudy has made too many enemies within his own party. I think that like McCain, Rudy's time has past, and I don't think he can get it back.

[ICantSpellDawg]

I agree with Seamus that Giuliani's chances at Hillary's senate seat are not good. He lost that seat to Clinton and the Dems in 2000, and NY, especially NYC, is dominatingly Democrat Party territory.
Giuliani also angered his own party by endorsing Gov. Cuomo instead of backing Pataki in 1994, and party disloyalty is never forgiven. As mayor he was quite divisive, except for his handling of the 2001 WTC attack, so Rudy has made too many enemies within his own party. I think that like McCain, Rudy's time has past, and I don't think he can get it back.

Eh. Who could we run?

Republicans have thrown NY out the window. A few years without Bush in the White house and hopefully that will change.

[Hosakawa Tito]

If Hillary is offered, and accepts, a cabinet post, and right now that appears to be up in the air, Dem. Gov. Patterson will select her replacement who will serve till 2010. A special election will be held then to vote for a candidate to serve the rest of Clinton's term that expires in 2012.

I'm sure Guiliani is "kicking the tires" within the NYS Republican Party to determine if he can garner enough support to be the 2012 candidate, but that's almost 4 years off and anything can happen in that amount of time. As far as identifying another candidate goes...I have no idea. To have a chance in a liberal heavy State such as NY the Republican candidate will most likely have to be seen as a liberal Republican.

[Martok]

Update on the Coleman-Franklin recount: With 46% of the votes counted, Coleman's lead is down, but he's still ahead by 136 votes.

The way things are going, I suspect this is going to end up in court, no matter the official results of the recount.

[ICantSpellDawg]

If Hillary is offered, and accepts, a cabinet post, and right now that appears to be up in the air, Dem. Gov. Patterson will select her replacement who will serve till 2010. A special election will be held then to vote for a candidate to serve the rest of Clinton's term that expires in 2012.

I'm sure Guiliani is "kicking the tires" within the NYS Republican Party to determine if he can garner enough support to be the 2012 candidate, but that's almost 4 years off and anything can happen in that amount of time. As far as identifying another candidate goes...I have no idea. To have a chance in a liberal heavy State such as NY the Republican candidate will most likely have to be seen as a liberal Republican.

I think he has a shot - anyone else and it would be no contest.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Giuliani would be an excellent choice for nominee in 2012 -- a much better choice than Palin.




Of course, I'm saying that because whoever gets tapped for the GOP will lose, lose badly, and have their national career ended. Since Giuliani is past it and not much of a conservative, the GOP would be giving away very little. Palin strikes me as a better conservative (not saying much I know), but she also seems totally hapless in media interaction. What I'm hoping as that both will be off the scene when a conservative nominee comes forward in 2016.

[ICantSpellDawg]

Giuliani would be an excellent choice for nominee in 2012 -- a much better choice than Palin.




Of course, I'm saying that because whoever gets tapped for the GOP will lose, lose badly, and have their national career ended. Since Giuliani is past it and not much of a conservative, the GOP would be giving away very little. Palin strikes me as a better conservative (not saying much I know), but she also seems totally hapless in media interaction. What I'm hoping as that both will be off the scene when a conservative nominee comes forward in 2016.

Wow - you are becoming quite the defeatist. Lets leave the soothsaying to the left. Obama could bungle this thing pretty badly.

Why don't we just write off the next century while we're at it.

We need to start taking real risks and using our best to do it. No more McCain's - no more Dole's.
We'll see where we stand in 4 years.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Hee-hee, not even a month past the election and the netroots are already getting their panties in a bunch:


Those people are hilarious! Its like they think they, the left fringe, are the democratic party! And then there's the people who want Darcy Burner to run again against Reichert, after she lost twice in some of the biggest democratic years in recent decades! Guess you just can't fix stupid.

CR

To some extent I respect their attitude, which boils down to:

We did the work and won, so now lets go kick *** and push things the way we want them to change.

Bush's "new tone" was the opposite strategy when he had the presidency and a GOP congress. Since the Dems took his "new tone," folded it up until it was all sharp corners and then crammed it up his fundamental posterior orifice, I can't blame the Kos crowd too much for wanting the fruits of victory and to discard bipartisanship.

They see bipartisanship as something you do when you don't have the power to make the other party shut up and do what it is told. It's refreshingly honest if nothing else.

[Spino]

Keep in mind Giuliani lost to Clinton only because he dropped out of the race due to prostate cancer! Had he stayed in the race Giuliani would probably gone on to beat Clinton by a handsome margin. The fact that Giuliani's replacement, Rick Lazio, jumped into the race a few months before the election late and received 43% of the vote (despite being a virtual unknown) should tell you that Giuliani had that one in the bag.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/22/us...a.html?_r=1&hp

According to the New York Times it appears that Hillary's 'confidants' are saying that she will accept the position. Andrew Cuomo aside (ugh) I don't see any big Democratic names moving in to vye for Hillary's Senate seat. True, Giuliani's star is not nearly as high in the sky as it used to be but there are still plenty of positive vibes around here for him. I think Giuliani has a good chance of winning.

As far as I'm concerned Giuliani's divisiveness was a simply reflection of his unpopular decisions rubbing an entrenched bureaucracy the wrong way. New York had been on liberal Democrat auto-pilot for so long (20+ years including Lindsay who switched teams in 70!) that most forgot what it was like to hear the word 'No' coming from a mayor on a regular basis. I'm an 'ends justify the means' sort and I fail to see how Giuliani could have accomplished what he did had he taken a gentler, more accomodating stance. Take note that Bloomberg is pretty much in the same mold as Giuliani, albeit with a slightly less combative nature. Last but not least New Yorkers are an awfully fickle bunch;, we grumble, complain and hurl expletives & epithets no matter who is in office.

The moral of the story is that Giuliani was a fool not to run for Senator or Governor when he had the chance. Had he done so he would have certainly won one or the other, thus keeping his political momentum fresh. Instead he opted to cash in on consulting & speech fees for several years and then gambled on his mayorship & 9/11 association being enough to carry the day in the Republican primaries.

[ICantSpellDawg]

Keep in mind Giuliani lost to Clinton only because he dropped out of the race due to prostate cancer! Had he stayed in the race Giuliani would probably gone on to beat Clinton by a handsome margin. The fact that Giuliani's replacement, Rick Lazio, jumped into the race a few months before the election late and received 43% of the vote (despite being a virtual unknown) should tell you that Giuliani had that one in the bag.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/22/us...a.html?_r=1&hp

According to the New York Times it appears that Hillary's 'confidants' are saying that she will accept the position. Andrew Cuomo aside (ugh) I don't see any big Democratic names moving in to vye for Hillary's Senate seat. True, Giuliani's star is not nearly as high in the sky as it used to be but there are still plenty of positive vibes around here for him. I think Giuliani has a good chance of winning.

As far as I'm concerned Giuliani's divisiveness was a simply reflection of his unpopular decisions rubbing an entrenched bureaucracy the wrong way. New York had been on liberal Democrat auto-pilot for so long (20+ years including Lindsay who switched teams in 70!) that most forgot what it was like to hear the word 'No' coming from a mayor on a regular basis. I'm an 'ends justify the means' sort and I fail to see how Giuliani could have accomplished what he did had he taken a gentler, more accomodating stance. Take note that Bloomberg is pretty much in the same mold as Giuliani, albeit with a slightly less combative nature. Last but not least New Yorkers are an awfully fickle bunch;, we grumble, complain and hurl expletives & epithets no matter who is in office.

The moral of the story is that Giuliani was a fool not to run for Senator or Governor when he had the chance. Had he done so he would have certainly won one or the other, thus keeping his political momentum fresh. Instead he opted to cash in on consulting & speech fees for several years and then gambled on his mayorship & 9/11 association being enough to carry the day in the Republican primaries.

I'm glad that you see it, but we are NYC/Long Island Republicans. Hosa has a point that Rudy might not appeal to upstate New Yorkers.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Even though I am disgusted with the present Republican party, I voted Obama, and my views may be more centrist than "right-wing", I still hold out hopes that the Republicans can turn things around.

Right now, the Republicans will be idea-barren obstructionists who follow the legacy of Bush and Cheney, and that makes them the opponents of constructive change. There are very few in Congress I support, much less on the Republican side.

However, regardless of how Obama does (frankly I am impressed by his bipartisanship so far, and his treatment of his former rivals, very classy move and also quite calculated) the Democrats will have a large chance in 2012, because I am absolutely certain that Obama's administration will look absolutely indispensable, especially considering the likely comparison between his and Bush's.

The trouble is, the Christian Republicans and the big businesses of the nation will be gunning for Obama starting now until his first term ends, and it's possible they could win in 2012. But who will be their leader?

If we get more of Romney, Palin, Bush, Cheney, McCain, Huckabee, Giuliani, Thompson, and their ilk, the Republicans may gain enough votes to get in but they will not have new ideas or solutions.

I want a real choice in 2012 and every election. I don't want to be forced into voting Democrat because the Republicans have picked yet another atrocious candidate. I want a real debate, not a smear contest. I want a real choice. I want to be inspired by a good Republican leader, and actually have the greater of two goods, not the lesser of two evils, to choose between.

Republicans need to abandon the stench of McCain-Palin, and abandon the Bush-Cheney administration. They need to understand that they got thrown out of Congress for supporting Bush and never wavering from that position, even when the nation had decided Bush was leading us down the wrong path.

It would have been different if the Republicans had saved their own political hides and abandoned Bush and denounced his policies; then they could legitimately say that their party was about change as well, but a different kind of change. That would have been an interesting argument, and a real clash of ideas.
Bush's ideas had already been thrown out by the 2008 election, clinging to them was suicidal and stubborn.

Leaders don't need to flip-flop on issues, but when real-world events clearly indicate a chosen course of action is incorrect, they need to at least acknowledge that and chart a new course or find new solutions.





EDIT: PS I still think Clinton is a horrible leader. Obama had better options. However, she has exactly one last chance to impress me.

[Banquo's Ghost]

Governor Palin just keeps polishing those credentials. I guess Thanksgiving is a Democratic tradition?

[ICantSpellDawg]

That is very funny.

I just don't understand it. We all eat those turkeys, but we can't know where they came from - they have to just be pieces of food, as if they grew on trees.

Is it weirder to see the process or to simply have a charred corpse on your kitchen table? The world seems to have decided in a very confused and infantile way.

[ICantSpellDawg]

The Executive Director of EMILY's List has been chosen by the Obama administration to be the Communications director for the White House.

Damn it all.

http://mobile.politico.com/story.cfm...6&cat=politics

[Seamus Fermanagh]

The Executive Director of EMILY's List has been chosen by the Obama administration to be the Communications director for the White House.

Damn it all.

http://mobile.politico.com/story.cfm...6&cat=politics

Tuff:

Comm Director is a classic spot for a communications/rhetoric savvy person who was part of your campaign communication/rhetoric team. Moran certainly qualifies. What's with the angst?