Koinon Hellenon Generals Are Lame

[tapanojum]

Just started a Massalia game, where I cheated in order to get my entire starting army from Greece to Massalia and Emporium. My first battle in this game, I send a 3/4th stack against a half stack rebel town nearby, mostly levies against my 2 Generals, 4 Celto-Helenic Infantry, 2 Massalian Hoplights, 2 Celtic Archers, Skirmishers, Hellenic Cavalry Skirmishers.

All is going great, until my Faction Leader dies to the Gaul General Bodyguard (Brihim s/p). Even though the enemy general was surrounded by 4 units of spearmen.

*sigh* at least he was in his 60's and to die soon anyways. As I am almost done with the battle, fighting the last unit of Heavy Infantry in the town square, my second general dies.

I just quit out of frustration.

Enemy General survives being surrounded by countless spearmen, in fact, he's the only one to survive out of the entire unit.

Yet both MY generals die with almost full strength units. They are nearly the first casualties out of their own bodyguard unit. What the hell!




[Rant Over]

[Cute Wolf]

I think your generals got Hypocondriac, or another HP reducing traits... so he will quite easily killed than his bodyguards... anyway, I think KH generals are good Indeed... for Roleplay... they can present a general who share the toils of becoming foot soldier

[Maion Maroneios]

It's true that unmounted generals are less effective than mounted ones, but they can be very good if used properly. But certainly, the Koinon Bodyguards can die easier than mounted ones, as they are more likely to get killed by a single cavalry charge from the left or even the front. Use them purely as shock troops and be conservative, don't tire them too much and your guys will wok wonders.

Maion

[Obelics]

also as a general rule, never make your on-foot general fight on the walls, it's one of the more easy way to make him killed, or fall down accidentely.

[tapanojum]

I wish it was any of those things you guys have listed.

The faction leader was in good condition given his health, the younger general had several +1hp traits and spearcarrier/etc.

The faction leader died while charging the rear of the cavalry in the beggening of the fight. He was fresh.

The second general died towards the end, he was tired, but one of over 1000 units that had sorrounded the last heavy infantry.

It was a small Gaul town with only wooden fences.

Last time I played as Massalia, I had similar experiences. Such as a general being the first casualty of war from a Carthigian charge head on into spears XD

I may just have to resort to turning my generals into Triari. They watch from the back of the lines, and only fight when they absolutely need to haha

[Grriffon]

I wish it was any of those things you guys have listed.

The faction leader was in good condition given his health, the younger general had several +1hp traits and spearcarrier/etc.

The faction leader died while charging the rear of the cavalry in the beggening of the fight. He was fresh.

The second general died towards the end, he was tired, but one of over 1000 units that had sorrounded the last heavy infantry.

It was a small Gaul town with only wooden fences.

Last time I played as Massalia, I had similar experiences. Such as a general being the first casualty of war from a Carthigian charge head on into spears XD

I may just have to resort to turning my generals into Triari. They watch from the back of the lines, and only fight when they absolutely need to haha

When I play Rome, Triarii form my battle lines, lol. As for foot generals, I'm really not a fan of them, but it could be worse. I've had a few early casualties with foot generals but it seems like EVERY time I get into melee with a Casse general he is always one of the first 5 soldiers to die. So, roleplay that your general cheated at dice, his men stabbed him in the back, and move on

[mcantu]

what difficulty level do you play on?

to protect the general during cav charges, hit the 'f' key just before his unit reaches the enemy. he will stop to the horn-blowing/rally thing while the rest of the unit charges in...

[Ca Putt]

ah, that's why my generals live rather long and i only have few who die in battle rather than rotting in some boring city^^. I usually do that because ... well because I like o do so :D

and putting them on walls is not all bad:
1. in contrast to cav generals they CAN stand on walls^^
2. if you deploy them right they can be kept away from action rather long- if you deploy the unit left of the ladder/seige tower.

appart from that, at least they tend to die with dignity and don't flee only armed with the warchest^^

[Cullhwch]

The AIGeneral trait gives the AI FMs insane bonuses to hitpoints, command, etc. Nerfing it would prevent this sort of thing from happening.

[Conqueror]

The AIGeneral trait gives the AI FMs insane bonuses to hitpoints, command, etc. Nerfing it would prevent this sort of thing from happening.

That would also make it too easy to murder them with slingers.

[Cullhwch]

No, it still takes FOREVER to kill generals with iaosatae.

[tapanojum]

what difficulty level do you play on?

to protect the general during cav charges, hit the 'f' key just before his unit reaches the enemy. he will stop to the horn-blowing/rally thing while the rest of the unit charges in...

VH/M.

The FL didn't die from charging the cavalry, but about 1 minute into it, a cavalry's lance just took him out. Freaking Spartans vs Gaul cavalry in closed combat...and they still die? Pathetic!

[mcantu]

the randomness of war...

[Celtic_Punk]

No clue what the hell you're on about buddy. I use my KH general as a linetroop. and they kick ass. Put em on the right side so your general is protected by not only his captain and standardbearer, but the regiment on his left.

"KH generals are lame" LOL they make short work of 90% of the infantry I face with them, and decimate cavalry better than most spearmen. Infact I'd go asfar to say as they are the best hoplites in the west. The only ones better are the spartan bodyguards in the start of the campaign.

[Megas Methuselah]

Yeah, in my first Massalian campaign back in 1.0, my KH bodyguards did fine. No generals dying prematurely, even though they were always used in the front line.

[tapanojum]

No clue what the hell you're on about buddy. I use my KH general as a linetroop. and they kick ass. Put em on the right side so your general is protected by not only his captain and standardbearer, but the regiment on his left.

"KH generals are lame" LOL they make short work of 90% of the infantry I face with them, and decimate cavalry better than most spearmen. Infact I'd go asfar to say as they are the best hoplites in the west. The only ones better are the spartan bodyguards in the start of the campaign.

Obviously, this thread was made out of annoying anger for the lameness of how unlucky I got to lose both generals, on the very first battle of the campaign.

Yes, Spartans and the Athenian Bodyguard are very sexy and effective. However, in all my campaigns as KH, I lose my general far more frequently in safe situations that I shouldn't.

[Megas Methuselah]

Obviously, this thread was made out of annoying anger for the lameness of how unlucky I got to lose both generals, on the very first battle of the campaign.

Yes, Spartans and the Athenian Bodyguard are very sexy and effective. However, in all my campaigns as KH, I lose my general far more frequently in safe situations that I shouldn't.

Nice. Hey, you wanna play poker?!

[Celtic_Punk]

hehe! I've pulled that on a few unsuspecting fellers.

but yeah, heed my advice, Put that general on the right flank. if you got another one, put him on the left, and guard him with another strong hoplite unit on his left. You will have a solid line. if you have a third general use him as a centrepeice, or a flanking force.

I hardly use cavalry as the KH. And i rarely have problems defeating Makedonian forces.

[tapanojum]

My unit positioning wasn't the problem, it was just pure bad luck in that battle.

I mean 1000 troops sorrounding 100, and still the general getting killed? That's sad =(

[Olaf Blackeyes]

Try this.The sweboz have foot general too. Do a custom fight and see if u still get the same problem

[Celtic_Punk]

welll... Take it from a soldier... War is Hell.

[satalexton]

semi OT but I must say the Sweboz bodyguards rock, they're prolly one of the closest things to hero units in EB xD

[Conqueror]

I lose my general far more frequently in safe situations that I shouldn't.

I wouldn't call being in the thick of battle a "safe situation"

Just because you outnumber and outclass the enemy, doesn't mean that your commanding officers can't be KIA when they join the fray. Losing two generals like that in one battle is some very poor luck, but not something that "shouldn't" ever happen.

[Novellus]

I always get annoyed by the KH bodyguards on the field, especially in the opening stages of the campaign against Makadonia. Even after I engulf the flanks of the deuteroi phalangites, they are so slow at killling them off!

[tapanojum]

I wouldn't call being in the thick of battle a "safe situation"

Just because you outnumber and outclass the enemy, doesn't mean that your commanding officers can't be KIA when they join the fray. Losing two generals like that in one battle is some very poor luck, but not something that "shouldn't" ever happen.

Losing your Faction leader while his entire bodyguard is stabbing a bunch of Gallic cavalry with their backs turned to the general except for a couple guys...that Shouldn't happen...maybe I'm just very lucky

[SwissBarbar]

lol, well be lucky that you've got rid of that sissy of a faction leader i've played a KH-Campaign some time ago, and i do not remembe anything bad about their generals except for their worse mobility

[Celtic_Punk]

lol I prefer them over most bodyguards lol

maybe i just got used to foot mobile generals when i was playing arthurian total war... the o'neil clan (Ui Neill) had these crazy irish swordsmen for generals. they'd probably be butchered by heavy cavalry tho... thank god i never played it long enough to face the british lol

[Marcus Ulpius]

I don't find them lame at all. In my KH campaign I've used them as flankers when I could afford it and as front line units when I couldn't. They held the line just fine even against phalanxes. I had to use them on the walls once and the general defended the wall without taking too many casualties. The only time I've lost a general was in some crazy siege when his unit was fighting too much on the streets and got exhausted. You just had a very bad luck in that battle.

I had something similar, only in Medieval TW. I've nearly completely destroyed the enemy with the only thing remaining was the enemy trebouchlet (sp). Having no other cavalry than my glorious general, I charge him there across half the map. Exactly at that time the said trebouchlet fires on one of my 3-rd grade militia units, but it misses and hits my general bodyguard unit who were just riding towards the trebouchlet, result - general killed on the spot.

And if we're talking about crappy generals in EB, that's Roman Consulars. They are nearly useless against anything, except may be skirmishers and already wavering troops.

[a completely inoffensive name]

And if we're talking about crappy generals in EB, that's Roman Consulars. They are nearly useless against anything, except may be skirmishers and already wavering troops.

I always thought the Roman bodyguard's were at least decent. They don't fall apart immediately like it would seem like from everyone's poor opinion of them.

[Maion Maroneios]

Well, they are decent. When I face them as Makedonia, they fare quite well. Unless, of course, they face my Somatophylakes Strategou. Now that's another story

Maion