Re: Dressed in black, school, gun, you get it.
My answer is here:Originally Posted by LittleGrizzly
The laws are completely pointless, and some politicians want to tighten them again.Were firearms laws made insanely restrictive to stop something like this happening again? Yes. Did they actually stop it? No.
Re: Dressed in black, school, gun, you get it.
The laws are completely pointless, and some politicians want to tighten them again.
My questions basically constructed a point, which was if he didn't have the access to guns in his house* he would be less likely to have had a gun. Sure he could have gone in there with something homemade or a sword but it is fairly difficult to be as effective a killer without a gun...
*if the dad was law abiding and firearm law was tightened (as in no guns)
In remembrance of our great Admin Tosa Inu, A tireless worker with the patience of a saint. As long as I live I will not forget you. Thank you for everything!
Re: Dressed in black, school, gun, you get it.
So, we have two solutions. Ban firearms altogether (which may stop the occasional school shooting but will have no effect on crime), or to do what I propose, and not react. The former may win votes, but it is not a sensible solution.
Re: Dressed in black, school, gun, you get it.
More on the 'Bama shooter. 28, lives with Mom, shoots Mom & dog, then Grandma & Grandpa, Aunt and Uncle, a few other random folks, and drives to his former job for the finale.
No one returned fire, except police. Frankly, that's a little surprising to me, having lived awhile in the area.
Nevertheless, my sincerest condolences to the families, friends and towns affected by both incidents.
Be well. Do good. Keep in touch.
Re: Dressed in black, school, gun, you get it.
So now I'm watching some TV discussion (in german) about it and they mention that he had no friends, quite the opposite of what I read in Stern online earlier.
Just wanted to mention that because if it's true it invalidates parts of my last post.
"Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu
Re: Dressed in black, school, gun, you get it.
I love the fact that the police released a statement that one of the first things they did was to search his pc and they found "KILLERGAMES" (as a german, you might well known the impact of the word Killerspiele).So now I'm watching some TV discussion (in german) about it and they mention that he had no friends, quite the opposite of what I read in Stern online earlier.
Just wanted to mention that because if it's true it invalidates parts of my last post.
Looking forward to the debates on KILLERGAMES.
Re : Dressed in black, school, gun, you get it.
Bah. Guns, videogames. That's not important.
The (school) shooter did not kill kids, he killed girls. He singled them out - this is far more relevant than videogames to understand his motives. I meant it as a serious remark when I said he could've stayed at home to masturbate and get it out of his system. Or get himself a decent haircut at last instead of that World of Warcraft subculture ponytail and nerdy outfit.
Arrogant little boy couldn't stand the discrepancy between his own inflated self-image and the lack of female attention. At last, he got to impose himself on women, to dominate and control them, as he thinks he's entitled to. Too scared to pull one off a bicycle, too incompetent to get one to come over to his house and vandalize her there, his last resort to get women in a subordinate position was to shoot them.
[/amateur psychology]
Re: Dressed in black, school, gun, you get it.
We live in a mad world don't we..
Rest in peace those who are dead.
Re: Dressed in black, school, gun, you get it.
He obviously needed to get laid, which reinforces my theory that sluts make the world go round.
Baby Quit Your Cryin' Put Your Clown Britches On!!!
Re: Dressed in black, school, gun, you get it.
You are completely wrong and the logic is flawed. Just because the tightened laws did not stop this shooting, it does not mean it has not stopped or reduced any shootings. I think you can use your common sense - and the great example of the US, compared to say, er.... Germany - to realise that having less guns and less avaliability to guns means less gun related deaths and shootings. To reduce gun laws after this tragedy would be the ultimate height of stupidity. Guns. Should. Be. Banned.My answer is here:
The laws are completely pointless, and some politicians want to tighten them again.
Last edited by JAG; 03-13-2009 at 12:05.
GARCIN: I "dreamt," you say. It was no dream. When I chose the hardest path, I made my choice deliberately. A man is what he wills himself to be.
INEZ: Prove it. Prove it was no dream. It's what one does, and nothing else, that shows the stuff one's made of.
GARCIN: I died too soon. I wasn't allowed time to - to do my deeds.
INEZ: One always dies too soon - or too late. And yet one's whole life is complete at that moment, with a line drawn neatly under it, ready for the summing up. You are - your life, and nothing else.
Jean Paul Sartre - No Exit 1944
Re: Dressed in black, school, gun, you get it.
I see. We're back to blaming the usual suspects: guns, girls and gaming. Much easier then child psychology, isn't it.
Müller writes somewhere that in the course of his career he always encountered such resistance; people are prepared to hear him out when they need him to solve a case, but they don't want to listen when he tells them how the case could arise in the first place. His unique approach to profiling, which departs not from psychology but from observational techniques and has allowed him to achieve remarkable results, is always welcome after the fact, almost never prior to it.
I must say I am particularly disappointed in Banquo's Ghost's view that boys aged 16-19 should be raised in a military atmosphere and that their educational opportunities should be made dependent on it. It reeks of fascism. There are many reasons why his approach is wrong, but suffice it to say that it does not prevent the behaviour we are discussing. Jeffrey Dahmer or Timothy McVeigh are prime examples of kids whose military service - if anything - gave them more inspiration and/or practical expertise to carry out their horrendous acts.
Edit
Dang it, Fragony, quit being so sensible. Your views on A Clockwork Orange already impressed me to the point where I remember them after two years or so. And yes, the office sometimes is just as cruel and unforgiving a place as the playground. That's exactly what Müller might say, too.
We have to stop meeting in this way.
Last edited by Adrian II; 03-13-2009 at 12:49.
The bloody trouble is we are only alive when we’re half dead trying to get a paragraph right. - Paul Scott
Re: Dressed in black, school, gun, you get it.
(what were my views of the Clockwork Orange, you just tickled my vanity)
Re: Dressed in black, school, gun, you get it.
Forty years ago (at age 18), I personally fought Banquo's Ghost's proposal tooth-and-nail, not for the fascistic aspects (those don't typically frighten americans as much as they do europeans, who apparently fear a slippery-slope slide back to the 30's; I mean that kindly), but for the involuntary servitude aspects.
Tying such national service to educational opportunities unobtainable otherwise lessens my opposition. And my own military experience, and observations, and time as a Dad, tells me that BG is actually spot-on correct. The family unit can (and must) do much to impart the qualities of good citizenship. But, the practical application of those qualities, the proof of their need, comes about best in the company of other young men, strictly (militarily, if you will) supervised by older men who have "been there, done that". The goal (among others) being: learning to no longer fear one's own or others' anger, fear, indecision, sadness, disappointment, rejection, violence - but instead, to recognize that stuff, focus it, and USE it to accomplish a mission satisfying to the individual man, and his society.
Sport can go a long way in accomplishing this, as well, but often misses the mark in its search for superstar players. The levening effect of military drudgery, punctuated by periods of intense danger, works better, in my opinion.
Dahmer and McVeigh were inadequately-trained soldiers. They 'got' the techniques, but not the background. I blame their sergeants.
Be well. Do good. Keep in touch.
Re: Dressed in black, school, gun, you get it.
Well, I don't have children yet, but I wouldn't be too enthusiastic about seeing my children (re-?)educated by an organisation that is in the end controlled by the morons that are called politicians.
EDIT: intended as response to Kukri and Banquo.
Last edited by Andres; 03-13-2009 at 14:07.
Andres is our Lord and Master and could strike us down with thunderbolts or beer cans at any time. ~Askthepizzaguy
Ja mata, TosaInu
Re: Dressed in black, school, gun, you get it.
I don't think it would change anything, just another system in which some can't cope. Any attempt at uniformity is an exercise in futility imho. Just let things be even if it's unpleasant we aren't equals. Where do these things happen; in society's with high expectations of how someone should behave.
(@Kukri)
Last edited by Fragony; 03-13-2009 at 14:05.
Re: Dressed in black, school, gun, you get it.
Andres and Fragony: I take your points. A highly-trained, well-motivated Cadre of NCO's would be an absolute necessity for such a plan. So, yes: Poorly-handled or -staffed, it would do more harm than good.
Be well. Do good. Keep in touch.
Re: Dressed in black, school, gun, you get it.
Sigh. Now you're doing it again. Why are you less perceptive on certain other subjects, when you have such a great capacity for observation as shown above? It's not the whole story, but it is part of it. Criminal forms of revenge (be it in the shape of violence, blackmail, extortion or fraud) often reflect the expectations of the environment where they take place. Bankers don't go on shooting sprees like postal workers. Bankers defraud or blackmail their bosses.
As to shootings and mass murderers. We all know (or should, if we are able to read papers) that these incidents occur in many countries with different traditions. Militaristic or not, 'gun culture' or no 'gun culture', rigid Japanese-style education or loose Dutch-style education, it doesn't matter.
As I tried to explain in some detail there may be a common denominator in these cases. But it does not correspond with most peoples' pet peeves, so it is often 'blissfully' ignored. That doesn't surprise me and shall blissfully leave this thread. Hey, it's only teh Internets.
Last edited by Banquo's Ghost; 03-13-2009 at 16:08. Reason: Personal attack
The bloody trouble is we are only alive when we’re half dead trying to get a paragraph right. - Paul Scott
Re: Dressed in black, school, gun, you get it.
Look at some other countries besides the US. There really isn't any correlation. Points three and six especially.
Now, I'm not sure if I'm for or against conscription, and I can't say I pay much attention to school shootings (just the resulting debates on gun control), but aren't most of those who shoot up schools under the usual ages of mandatory conscription?
Last edited by Evil_Maniac From Mars; 03-13-2009 at 18:33.
Re: Dressed in black, school, gun, you get it.
I wish this would help, but I guess it won't: It is normal to feel that way in late teens/early twenties. Sure, lotsa guys bluster through that time, but they're bluffing: you're old enough to see and recognize the (seems like: enormous) challenges and responsibilities of man-hood, and young enough to remember carefree childhood, that you now wish you'd enjoyed more - since the future looks like a whole buncha hard work that maybe you're not confident you can do.
Cheer up. Listen to Uncle Kukri, who has been through it himself, and brought several other young men through it too: There's really only 2 things you have to get good at:
1) Protecting
2) Providing
Everything else, your instincts, your abilities (that you don't even know you have, yet) are there so that you can do those two things. Protect and Provide. It is the boiled-down basic job description of Husband, Father, Brother, Leader, Man. You may never be Husband, or Father or Leader, but you already are: Man. And you have no idea what Fate will throw at you in the future for a life-job.
Now is the time for pactice; Work on the P & P of Husar, as though he were another (little bit younger) person than you. Some day, maybe soon, you'll have to protect and provide for another, or maybe many others. And you'll know what to do.
Be well. Do good. Keep in touch.
Re: Dressed in black, school, gun, you get it.
We have conscription here too. I can't say I wanted to go to a school and shoot a bunch of people after my army year. Now, the army headquarters on the other hand........
A year in a frozen hellhole in the middle of nowhere, 20.000km from women, with absolutely nothing to do except counting the days to your next leave and day-dream about banging your girlfriend... Someone has got to pay for that.
*the thread hijacker will now wander off*
Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban
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