Wallachia is not Bulgaria !

[The historian]

Sorry i misunderstood i understand now you'd prefer a simpler game then one with a lot of micromanagement the way i like them .

[Tantalaul]

Kingdom of Romania
This will balanced your over extended map and give you less moves in every end turn and I supposed that you know if you make a click on the mouse the game make moves faster so Mister G.W. this is not a valid reason. C.A. doesn’t bother with less money productive regions from global markets this is the real reason.
Why do you believe that they put that thing called 13 colonies? If you don’t know I tell you why, for your big market.

[Tantalaul]

This will be the Europe map for year 1600 - 1700 in my point of view

[Sheogorath]

This will be the Europe map for year 1600 - 1700 in my point of view
[IMG]http://www.totalwar.ro/map-romanian-MV.JPG[IMG]

There are several major problems with this map, though...

It almost ignores Sweden and the Baltic. Obviously major features in this era.

The shape of the German States does not reflect the reality of the 1700's. While ETW's doesn't exactly either, it does at least manage to give the 'feel'. Plus, this map has no Prussia and no Silesia, West or East Prussia.

The regions around the Crimea would prevent the Crimean Khannate from existing as it did in the period.

The map also simply would not work in...well...pretty much all of Eastern Europe.

So, while it may be 'balanced', it would also be, in my opinion, not much fun and rather ruin any glimmer of historical accuracy present in ETW.

Further, I rather like the elimination of tons of regions. Although at present it means the AI is terribly disadvantaged, hopefully CA will soon work the kinks out and fewer regions will mean you'll have to fight hard for each and every one, as opposed to LOL TEH BLITZ as in MTWII.

[lars573]

Time frame is 1700 false or true?
So Europe map is http://www.euratlas.com/history_euro..._map_1700.html
And in my opinion CA shows again a lack of history culture.
No comment

I don't who drew that map, but it's about as realistic as CA's making Wallachia part of Bulgaria. Wallachia and Moldova were part of the Ottoman empire from the early 15th century until 1881. How independant they were within the Ottoman empire is open to inpretation.

Here's someone elses.
http://home.zonnet.nl/gerardvonhebel/1648.htm
http://home.zonnet.nl/gerardvonhebel/1748.htm

[lugh]

Don't worry, I am sure once there are mod tools out, it will be a quick rename for your problem. I am sure the Irish cringe every time they see it under British control, unfortunately for them, that is accurate of the time period.

They balance it well I think. We get plummed in with the English or British when appropriate but they went to lengths to make the Irish a lot of fun to play in both of the Dark Age expansions for MTW and M2TW. Here's to allowing a "rebellion" mode in an expansion or mod so I can see if 1798 might not have come off a bit prettier. ;)

Anyway, any arguements for realism where it's possible for me to conquer the world inside 50 years and only using 20k or so troops are patently ridiculous.

[Tantalaul]

I don't who drew that map, but it's about as realistic as CA's making Wallachia part of Bulgaria. Wallachia and Moldova were part of the Ottoman empire from the early 15th century until 1881. How independant they were within the Ottoman empire is open to inpretation.

Here's someone elses.
http://home.zonnet.nl/gerardvonhebel/1648.htm
http://home.zonnet.nl/gerardvonhebel/1748.htm
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My time frame is 1600 - 1700 and if I choose 1600 the map will have this profile in eastern Europe and if you want to add in western Europe more factions I will do this

For your information is a well documented and very detailed made map from Euro atlas as you see in links below a good Bibliography and references used for the Periodical Historical Atlas of Europe in different times in history.
http://www.euratlas.com/biblio.htm
http://www.euratlas.com/biblio2.htm
and I think these man are good scientist.

[KarlXII]

Good God. You're complaining about one region not being properly represented? I mean, just because the Baltic States are grouped together doesn't mean it ruins my Swedish Empire, and I have not heard an Estonian complain yet. I agree with the opinion that adding every single little town and city will cause the already meh campaign to become unbearable.

CA made the campaign interesting with the town/port system and tech tree. But they never went overboard in towns, so you were not bogged down. Putting hundreds of towns in several regions because some nationalist players think their town is more important than some other nationalist players town just destroys the mix that I enjoy so much.

[Kobal2fr]

Probably a misunderstanding on my part. I understood your first post as saying Wallachia and Bulgaria should be two separate provinces instead of what it is currently. I think the number of provinces in game is good enough. The only ones I think should be split are France and Spain, which should be 2-3 provinces each.

I'm OK with France being one giant province, even though it bothered me at first (it's counterbalanced by the many French colonial regions). But Marseilles really ought to be a working port from the get go - it's been a major trading hub since before the Romans for chrissake ! And it's really counterintuitive and a-historical for France to have to invade northern Italy just to have a presence in the Mediterranean...

[KozaK13]

That map just looked like the med 2 map, infact it even says so.

Atleast this is civil for a more nationalistic thread, i would love to see more provinces in the balkans to give you more to do but hey thats life.

[Forward Observer]

Well, I'm really, really upset at how my hometown was depicted by the time I got there:



A cathouse? Come on! Sure there are a few HO's in the area, but Little Rock, Arkansas is mostly a city and state of inbred toothless, booger eatin' rednecks and we're mighty damn proud of it!

[Callahan9119]

Wallachia is not Bulgaria !

Would anybody notice this thread if some lady hadnt slept with Napoleon?

I wouldnt have, maybe thats why I dont care if they are all lumped together. I mean look at the Native Americans, you would be way "madder" if you were a Inuk

[Upxl]

Even though I consider myself far from a historian I would like to add something to this discussion here.

Games are just games, they are made for a wide variety of public and can and will never be 100% historically correct.
I don’t like it but sadly there’s not much we can do about it (modders not included)
Still I believe that the makers of TW however do their very best to come as close as possible.
Very challenging when taking game play / loading times and user friendliness into account i'm sure.
We don’t know what goes on in those meeting rooms when all this is being discussed but I’m pretty sure these errors aren’t because of stupidity or incompetents.

that doesn't mean that CA is doing a good job of educating people on the true history of he era --- not that it does that in any of its TW games... I know it's a game and not an encyclopedia, but still.. primary school level history knowledge for me..

Not only I disagree I also believe CA does much more then just educating people.
I’ll bet that a lot of young and older gamers have little to no knowledge about the world some hundred or more years ago.
How many people I remember in school where totally uninterested in history just because it was a boring teacher or just couldn’t grasp the importance of it.
I remember one of my finest teachers opened his first class with and I quote; “I know a lot of you don’t understand why you should learn history or why it is any matter of importance…” Shame on me I cant remember the rest of the lecture
Ofcours then again I was never among those people but I tried numerous times to persuade them in the point of learning it.

My point here simply is.
I’m sure many kids here got the taste of it and this game will motivate them to just look stuff up, believe me, I’ve seen it happen.
As for the teachings of CA I’ll bet you that allot of them go: what the heck? There was an ottoman empire?
At this point those “details” (I apologize if I offend you here, this not my intention) don’t matter much. They won’t remember them anyway and if they do they’ll figure it out.
In this case they just had to click on this thread.
Besides my school experience on history was in a lot of cases full of errors due to the misinterpretations of the teachers and the books that where at hand.
Even worse when I chose to switch my course and thus from school, because of the different year schedules I never got learn anything about the Middle Ages.
A dying shame but because I cared I read up on my own time.

I don’t think we shouldn’t attack CA in anyway but we should never stop informing people.
If you had started this thread not by insulting but just by informing you would’ve achieved the same and more.
People wont waste time arguing about what CA should have done or not, making this one of the many endless discussions on the net but instead join in and tell what they know about the subject.

Same goal, different approach.
It’ll do wonders!
Even for this fine forum. (talking about attitude here)

[Callahan9119]

I dont like your positive attitude

Lets keep it short and angry!

[Suraknar]

Discussion bring forth more information.

For what it is worth, thses discussions however emotionally fulled and controversial they may be, they do inform people that may have taken a genuine liking of a certain moment in history and would like to know more.

Yes I agree with the fact that this is a game and can't be expected to be 100% accurate, for gameplay reasons, otherwise it would not be sold in the Strategy section of the games, it would be under the Educational section.

So compromises and sacrifices have to be made at times from the point of view of the developer in order to accommodate fun and game play.

Yet, as said above, the game serves a catalyst role, it encourages people to learn more and should not be taken "face value" as Historical fact, heck Montreal was placed in Upper Canada when in reality is in Lower Canada historically, but it is game play.

And the end result is that all nations are important no matter how big or how small how famours or not, because all nations are made up of Humans like any other, sharing part of eachother's culture and learning about other nation's cultures history is also part of learning about ourselves as well.

We all share the history no matter where we are located and live in the present, and learning about it helps us avoid past mistakes (we always wish that this is the case) as well as helps us learn how we got to be where we are today, upon this planet called Earth, that we all share.

[Upxl]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Even though I consider myself far from a historian I would like to add something to this discussion here.

Games are just games, they are made for a wide variety of public and can and will never be 100% historically correct.
I don’t like it but sadly there’s not much we can do about it (modders not included)
Still I believe that the makers of TW however do their very best to come as close as possible.
Very challenging when taking game play / loading times and user friendliness into account i'm sure.
We don’t know what goes on in those meeting rooms when all this is being discussed but I’m pretty sure these errors aren’t because of stupidity or incompetents.



Not only I disagree I also believe CA does much more then just educating people.
I’ll bet that a lot of young and older gamers have little to no knowledge about the world some hundred or more years ago.
How many people I remember in school where totally uninterested in history just because it was a boring teacher or just couldn’t grasp the importance of it.
I remember one of my finest teachers opened his first class with and I quote; “I know a lot of you don’t understand why you should learn history or why it is any matter of importance…” Shame on me I cant remember the rest of the lecture
Ofcours then again I was never among those people but I tried numerous times to persuade them in the point of learning it.

My point here simply is.
I’m sure many kids here got the taste of it and this game will motivate them to just look stuff up, believe me, I’ve seen it happen.
As for the teachings of CA I’ll bet you that allot of them go: what the heck? There was an ottoman empire?
At this point those “details” (I apologize if I offend you here, this not my intention) don’t matter much. They won’t remember them anyway and if they do they’ll figure it out.
In this case they just had to click on this thread.
Besides my school experience on history was in a lot of cases full of errors due to the misinterpretations of the teachers and the books that where at hand.
Even worse when I chose to switch my course and thus from school, because of the different year schedules I never got learn anything about the Middle Ages.
A dying shame but because I cared I read up on my own time.

I don’t think we shouldn’t attack CA in anyway but we should never stop informing people.
If you had started this thread not by insulting but just by informing you would’ve achieved the same and more.
People wont waste time arguing about what CA should have done or not, making this one of the many endless discussions on the net but instead join in and tell what they know about the subject.

Same goal, different approach.
It’ll do wonders!
Even for this fine forum. (talking about attitude here)

Really should stop posting after a drinking night.
Allways become so mushy and tender.

[anweRU]

Well, there also aren't thirteen colonies in the thirteen colonies. I'm sure this isn't due to ignorance; I find it hard to believe that CA didn't know the thirteen colonies were made up of... well... thirteen colonies. It's not because CA is stupid and doesn't know history, it was a design decision. I really don't think it's a huge deal, and it likely streamlines the game. I'm sure some mods will be out soon that will have a more historically accurate map. For now, just use your imagination and try to enjoy the game. It is a game, after all.

Edit: yes, I know all thirteen colonies hadn't been founded by 1700, but I think you see my point notwithstanding.

The weird thing is, Maine is presented as a colony, though historically it was part of Massachusetts until well into the 1800s. Colonies that did exist at the time are missing altogether. Delaware, New Jersey, Connecticut?

[A Very Super Market]

AGH!

ITS FOR GAMEPLAY REASONS!!!

CA isn't going to make a separate region for Delaware, or New Jersey, or Connecticut, because there would be no point in it! The islands, naturally, are small, but they are spread out over such a large area that gameplay is improved by making them separate regions. Gibraltar, though smaller than what you mentioned is historically and strategically important, and the only way into the Med, unlike some of the colonies.

Are you asking for the "New England" region to extend all the way up to Acadia? Now there are too little regions for gameplay reasons.

[KarlXII]

AGH!

ITS FOR GAMEPLAY REASONS!!!

CA isn't going to make a separate region for Delaware, or New Jersey, or Connecticut, because there would be no point in it! The islands, naturally, are small, but they are spread out over such a large area that gameplay is improved by making them separate regions. Gibraltar, though smaller than what you mentioned is historically and strategically important, and the only way into the Med, unlike some of the colonies.

Are you asking for the "New England" region to extend all the way up to Acadia? Now there are too little regions for gameplay reasons.

No, you don't understand! This game is broken if I don't see Trenton!

/wrists

[anweRU]

AGH!
Are you asking for the "New England" region to extend all the way up to Acadia? Now there are too little regions for gameplay reasons.

Actually, I was just pointing out that CA has made more than one unusual choice in selecting regions, among several already pointed out above. And I don't see the logic of your final statement, considering the unnecessarily large Spain and France regions already in the game, which are far worse game balance errors IMHO. As UP, I can just waltz in and destroy France by 1703 if I wanted to!

[A Very Super Market]

From what I see, Western Europe is meant to be cramped. Its more of the fault of the AI, and the player being too good, that the single-territory France is unbalanced. The Americas, on the other hand, are meant to open, to encourage landgrabbing.

[71-hour Ahmed]

My question in regards to this would be: would the re-division of the Balkan map section as described in the OP interfere with the game development? I think yes, so while I can understand the annoyance the existing map is probably better.

It would result in different locations for capital cities of provinces and different province locations and shapes. Currently I find that the existing layout creates a narrow neck for Russia/ Ottoman to engage on and probably limits their opportunities when played by the AI, but the re-design proposed here could open that right up (as well as rebalance the relative wealth of those areas quite a bit).

[Tantalaul]

Hello this is my opinion regarding this game Empire Total War.
I have all the games from this saga Total War except this one Empire TW.
I was waiting like all the fans the previews for game, movies and other materials from CA regarding this game.
Wow a new improved and interesting game I can’t wait to see and play this game.
But when I find out that they don’t include Wallachia province in their map of Europe I decided that I will not buy this game until someone succeed to add a new region on this map.
This is all that I want to say.
End of story from my point of view

[nafod]

AGH!

ITS FOR GAMEPLAY REASONS!!!

CA isn't going to make a separate region for Delaware, or New Jersey, or Connecticut, because there would be no point in it! The islands, naturally, are small, but they are spread out over such a large area that gameplay is improved by making them separate regions. Gibraltar, though smaller than what you mentioned is historically and strategically important, and the only way into the Med, unlike some of the colonies.

Are you asking for the "New England" region to extend all the way up to Acadia? Now there are too little regions for gameplay reasons.

Agreed. Gibralter is necessary so Spain can have more territory to have stacks stand around aimlessly.

[KarlXII]

Hello this is my opinion regarding this game Empire Total War.
I have all the games from this saga Total War except this one Empire TW.
I was waiting like all the fans the previews for game, movies and other materials from CA regarding this game.
Wow a new improved and interesting game I can’t wait to see and play this game.
But when I find out that they don’t include Wallachia province in their map of Europe I decided that I will not buy this game until someone succeed to add a new region on this map.
This is all that I want to say.
End of story from my point of view

/wrists

[Romano-Dacis]

The problem is not that "omg they combined two provinces I want my province >_<" it's that they had the opportunity to combine it the right way and the blew it on a monumental scale. I mean, there are two provinces in the region no? You have Bulgaria and Moldavia currently, why not:

-Unify Moldavia and Wallachia as one region, called the "Danubian Principalities" (which is a historical term for the two! People actually started putting them under "one package" by the early 19th century) with the city as Bucharest, and make Bulgaria a separate province with the Capital at Sofia? I mean, you still have two provinces, and you could even make the Romanian principalities rebels or vassals or something as they were historically. But currently it's like ass. It's like if you were given the choice "Sugar, frosting, and tabasco sauce... which two do I put together?" Honestly, maybe to people not into the region it's no big deal but given that they chose to make two provinces anyway they could at least have done it right.

That's what pisses me off most. If they didn't have Moldavia s a province as well then I could have said "well they ran out of provinces" but this is like "wtf!?"

[Tantalaul]

So I said again I will NOT buy this game until someone succeed to repair the damage that CA did in this game!
Do not understand me wrong I am a big fan of this games I have a site dedicated to this games paid from my pocket, for god …..

[A Very Super Market]

So wait, why aren't misrepresented Natives (Huron were wiped out by this time, Innu replaced by Inuit), the thousands of German states, the Welsh, and the Swiss crying out in outrage that the game left them out? Hell, what about people from areas that weren't even programmed to exist, like the Japanese?

[Tully Bascombe]

I think one reason they reduced the number of provinces was to make their economic model work - the feature of the game in which "towns" outside of the regional capital appear and offer a specific type of economic or cultural development. OTOH they deliberately included certain smaller provinces - such as Gibralter, Lorraine, and Malta because historically those regions were treasures fought over by the various powers. Taking the later into consideration they probably should have left Moldavia - Walachia and Temesvar as seperate provinces. IIRC during this area those later provinces changed hands back and forth between the Ottomans, the Austro-Hungarians and the Russians.

[Darth Venom]

So wait, why aren't misrepresented Natives (Huron were wiped out by this time, Innu replaced by Inuit), the thousands of German states, the Welsh, and the Swiss crying out in outrage that the game left them out? Hell, what about people from areas that weren't even programmed to exist, like the Japanese?

Probably because we (or I) can acknowledge a good game for what it is (a game!!!) without having my local patriotism influence my decision.
I still think CA could have done things much better in some parts with ease (name of the Italian states, HRE faction names, ...) but Empire imho is still a bloody good game!

Taking the later into consideration they probably should have left Moldavia - Walachia and Temesvar as seperate provinces. IIRC during this area those later provinces changed hands back and forth between the Ottomans, the Austro-Hungarians and the Russians.

Did they change hands en bloc or as seperate entities?