The art of fueling conflicts

[Liberator]

It seems to work quite well - I realized that Persia is very much underdeveloped, so they simply could not contest the Ottomans as I liked them to do.
So I gave them all tech I could. (they had to upgrade their buildings)
The following rounds I continued feeding them with tech - and suddenly they owned Baghdad

I also started to support Prussia and Poland, because I want to slow Austria down. It seems to work so far as well.

[Fisherking]

Which faction are you playing?

This can be a little dangerous if you need to fight them later.

I would surely not do it if I were Russia.

I supported Sweden in my Austrian campaign with tech and money. Some how they never managed to do anything. They even lost to Coreland. I had to wipe out Denmark to keep them in the game. I stopped supporting them and just gave them state gifts to keep them happy and defeated the enemies my self.

Any way I didn’t find it worth while to support nations that are too weak or those who may become too strong.

I don’t know if it is the game AI or just the faction AI but I have not found it beneficial for one reason or another.

[Khorak]

A nation still needs the right conditions to prevail even if you just dump technology and cash on them. If their provinces aren't capable of producing enough money of their own, or they don't have an effective route of attack (clear land), then nothing will happen.

The Ottoman Empire always has much larger concerns to the north and west, so Persia are well placed to take advantage of what is probably an almost entirely undefended frontier if you help them.

[Monsieur Alphonse]

It seems to work quite well - I realized that Persia is very much underdeveloped, so they simply could not contest the Ottomans as I liked them to do.
So I gave them all tech I could. (they had to upgrade their buildings)
The following rounds I continued feeding them with tech - and suddenly they owned Baghdad

I also started to support Prussia and Poland, because I want to slow Austria down. It seems to work so far as well.

Persia in my campaigns very often captures Armenia and Mesopotamia. I don't think that your tech aid have helped the AI very much.

[DisruptorX]

The main problem is that some factions will never, ever expand and go on the offensive. If you can find one that will, sending them gold and techs will help. I do it occasionally.

[Eusebius86]

Tech won't cause a country to expand, but it will help countries defend themselves that you don't want to fall. As Prussia, I didn't want Sweden to fall to expanding Poland. They held their own much better after bayonets, the first firing drill, and the first canon tech...

[Liberator]

Persia in my campaigns very often captures Armenia and Mesopotamia. I don't think that your tech aid have helped the AI very much.

I'm in the 80's and Persia has been in war with the Ottomans since ... around 1720?! and so far they didn't manage to conquer anything.

On the one hand, you may be right that it does not helped very much, but on the other hand, it can still make the difference.
And I am sure it did - Persia was very underdeveloped, they did not even had "basic procurement" or how it is called in 1775
And as an AI faction, they get their bonuses, and so what seems a lite bit to tech to us has a much bigger impact on the AI

Which faction are you playing?

This can be a little dangerous if you need to fight them later.

I'm Genoa, the superpower in the western mediterranean and the new Rome if you want so

[Relic]

Tech is useful. But a garrison and invasion force is the most useful thing you can have. The Ottomans are too busy with Europe to handle Africas defence. Strike them and the Barbary States if you can!

[Liberator]

I'm not interested in war with the Ottomans, and I own the Barbary State territory already.
I want Persia to do the dirty work for me
The Ottomans just bore me as they don't stop spamming ships.

[Fisherking]

I'm not interested in war with the Ottomans, and I own the Barbary State territory already.
I want Persia to do the dirty work for me
The Ottomans just bore me as they don't stop spamming ships.

Mostly insignificant ships! Three or four third rates and about the same number of frigates will take out a whole fleet or maybe two.

When I helped the Swedes, all they did was spam troops and put them on the Border of Norway. Now I held Norway and was at one point going to gift it to them. But they were at war with Russia. I took St Petersburg and gave that to them but they never did anything with it. It was taken back by the Russians, just ahead of Coreland I might add, and I had to retake it in a new war with Russia, where I gutted them, sounded Sweden on all sides and decided it was fruitless to try to assist an AI that was so inept that it couldn’t function in its own interest.

[knoddy]

the biggest problem as others have stated isnt necessarily techs, its aggression. in my current vh/vh camp everyone is ahead of me in techs

so far in my experience only a few factions ever grow, which is silly considering the hot bed that is central europe. in my few campaigns, sweeden usually takes out denmark. and spain takes out portugal. but thats bout it. russia barely moves, despite having full stacks sittin on the borders of Dagestan and Georgia. usually someone wipes out austria, wether its a joint effort between some of the other powers or 1 single faction i dont know, there usually at war with everyone.

the biggest suprise to me came when frace was annihilated by savoy. who now own like all of western europe. (granted its only like 3/4 provinces lol)

as i said b4 tech isnt necessarily the problem. despite being in a constant state of war, russia almost never expands, same with many of the european factions. its almost like they got the diplomacy system working well, but forgot to make the AI actually act against each other. they stay at war for whole games without ever attacking or making peace lol.

Cheers Knoddy

[SpiritFox]

One thing I *never* figured was why Galactic Civilizations was the only game *ever* to allow me to sell actual arms to minor nations I wanted to use as proxies in conflicts. Ok, so I could do the same in HoI2, but... still...

I mean, it's one thing to sell tech to factions I want to survive, it's another if I can actually provide them with equipment to raise a large standing army. It would also help me keep my own expenses in trim - let me disband excess units I no longer need and "cascade" their equipment to... say... the Maharatas. Or one of the native American factions. Like the most ridiculous twink in the history of mankind.

[Ishmael]

I found that as the Marathas gifting tech and money caused the Austrians to go on a conquering spree.
They had 2 provinces when I started, and now they have over 10 (they took out Poland-Lithuania, a central german state or two and part of Russia), and dominate the Mediterranean.
Mind you, I did go a little over the top-I gave them all tech (id researched it all, and this was 1750), 4 million as a down payment, and 80 000 gold per turn for the next 20 turns or so. Hey, I was bored
It did have the unexpected side effect of weakening the navies of the colonial powers (Austria was at war with practically everybody), and therefore presumably their coffers, which then allowed me easy expansion into America.

[Darth Venom]

Gifting Tech and money is one way to influence far away conflicts, blockading landbridges with ships there is another, quite effective one imo.
It obviously works best when you're at peace with the factions in the area, so a single sloop can do the job without being attacked. As Britain or Prussia you can bring the ineviatable Sweden-Denmark-Russia-Poland war to a standstill if you block the landbridges from south from Finland and east of Copenhagen. Sure, Sweden will lose its Baltic provinces and Denmark Norway, but that's pretty much it then. I found this quite an effective way to keep all of them from becoming too powerful.
Other places where this works are Gibraltar, the Bosporus and between Quebec and the 13 Colonies.

Buying provinces and gifting them to someone else is an obvious one. As Prussia I recently bought Georgia from the Russians and gave it to neutral Dagestan while making them my protectorate, thus locking the Russo-Ottoman conflict in the Caucasus indefinitely.

A strategy that has worked in past TW titles and seems still ok (though it might be random) ist to place armies on near borders. The neighbouring faction will produce troops in the next city and leave them there instead of using its resources elsewhere.

[Daveybaby]

Does anyone else find it ridiculous that navies block access for factions they are at peace with?

[Darth Venom]

Does anyone else find it ridiculous that navies block access for factions they are at peace with?

Come to think of it.... Yes, I guess you could consider it a minor expliot of a poorly modelled system.

[Didz]

I gave the Barbary States all the Tech's I acquired as the Ottoman's, in anticipation of it making them even more of a pain for the European Powers to deal with.

The one concern I have about given aware technical knowledge is that the people you give it too mmake not protect it very well. The Crimean Khanate for example allowed an Austrian scholar to study at one of their universities for years, and in the end I had to send an assassin to deal with him.

Another weird thing I noticed is that the native american tribes all seem to have fully developed tech tree's. They even have the full set of naval ones, even though most have never even seen the sea. The annoying thing is that they never share their knowledge.

[Frankenbeasley]

Playing as GB, I made sure that the 13 Colonies got every tech I researched, acting on the principle that this would make it easier for me when they eventually joined my cause. It did: the colonies were much better developed by the time I finished the mission. As an additional bonus, they had actually expanded and taken an extra couple of regions by that point. I apply the same methods to the mission factions if I play as France or Spain. I will also share tech with any of my early targets (Morocco is a favourite).

As for the rest, I also try and sell (or give away) plug bayonets to any factions I have upcoming conflicts with. I work on the principle that it helps me if my opponents bugger up their muskets half way through a scrap....

[anweRU]

Money is more important than tech, though giving the industrial & enlightenment techs to nations you plan to conquer will help your own budget later on...

Giving money is the best. Giving money outright offends my sensibilities, but buying regions for outrageous sums does not. After buying Ceylon from UP for 60K, UP captured first French Guyana and then Flanders a couple of decades later. It has too many stacks sitting in both European provinces now.

Alas, buying Florida (~300K) and Cuba (~600K) from Spain did not help it so far. It's armies reached the France-Flanders border too late. And France actually lost all of its Canadian possesions two decades after I purchased New Foundland for ~ 100K. But at least it conquered Boston and Maine first. I suppose my purchase of Jamaica from the British for ~ 300K might have had something to do with the massive British armies that steam-rollered through North America...

[Didz]

Goodness, where do you get the money from?

I thought I was doing well in my current American campaign, but I'm still only making about 25-30k per turn gross, and about 18k net. In my Ottoman Campaign I completely missed the whole Trade Port rush and ended up only making about 17k GNP per turn. It would take me all game to save up enough to buy one province at your prices.

[Liberator]

Alas, buying Florida (~300K) and Cuba (~600K) from Spain did not help it so far. It's armies reached the France-Flanders border too late. And France actually lost all of its Canadian possesions two decades after I purchased New Foundland for ~ 100K. But at least it conquered Boston and Maine first. I suppose my purchase of Jamaica from the British for ~ 300K might have had something to do with the massive British armies that steam-rollered through North America...

Whoa, you make going to war look cheap

[anweRU]

I'm playing as Sweden on VH.

@ 1746 I am making a net profit of $150K+. All of my European & most of my colonial provinces have maximum industry + ports + mines + farms. I've conquered Denmark, Prussia, Saxony, Courland, Poland, & Russia (i.e. all their regions), as well as Moldovia from the Ottomans (during a short trade war where I took three trade slots they were occupying). I have two slots in Brazil, and three slots each in the rest of the trade theaters. All with 5 ships. My total military upkeep is a minor 44K. I have only four full army stacks and two naval stacks. The rest of my military are dragoons on garrison duty.

I conquered only two colonial provinces, the two pirate islands in 1741-1742. The rest were all bought, including Georgia from the Cherokees (400K).

[HahnHolio]

rediculous little bug i had in my reecent france campaign:

alsac-lorraine revolted and a 7 unit stack of rebels spawned ... nozhin new about that, the year was 1708 ...
so i thought, i´d move my smaller army from france to face them - 2 Horse 4 line 2 12lber ... should be enuff i thought.

so i attacked them and w00t, 7 units of RocketLaunchers ^^ in 1708 ... well i attacked with only my cav and took them out pretty quick, but how could that happen?

[Liberator]

so i attacked them and w00t, 7 units of RocketLaunchers ^^ in 1708 ... well i attacked with only my cav and took them out pretty quick, but how could that happen?

Rockets are the artillery of the countryfolk - see recent wars in Afghanistan

Seriously, rebels are no ordinary faction (at least I think so), so they can not develop any tech. Someone may have thought that it would be best to let them "start" with every tech, otherwise rebels would look very underdeveloped in the later game

[nafod]

The main problem is that some factions will never, ever expand and go on the offensive. If you can find one that will, sending them gold and techs will help. I do it occasionally.

In fact if you look at MikeV's data extract some factions are literally listed as "non-expansionist"

[Liberator]

In fact if you look at MikeV's data extract some factions are literally listed as "non-expansionist"

Where can I find this?!

[Khorak]

Another fun little plan; if the enemy are having a lot of trouble keeping all their provinces under control.....dump all the enlightenment techs on them. Enjoy your rebellion ****hole, I'll send a couple armies to clean it up for you.

[Mr Frost]

Where can I find this?!

Here .







I just realised I should probably show you the specific data He was refering too Main Pack/Factions , and point out that Non Expansionist doesn't determine [i]absoulute behaviour as I've seen Wurtenburg {non expansionist} tear Prussia and Austria appart and dominate central Europe without and help or interfereance on my part {in a Great Britain game} , so it clearly is a description of behaviour tendancy and not certainty .

[Darth Venom]

I just realised I should probably show you the specific data He was refering too Main Pack/Factions , and point out that Non Expansionist doesn't determine [i]absoulute behaviour as I've seen Wurtenburg {non expansionist} tear Prussia and Austria appart and dominate central Europe without and help or interfereance on my part {in a Great Britain game} , so it clearly is a description of behaviour tendancy and not certainty .

Iirc, in the past games, the overall behaviour of a faction can change during a game when conditions (e.g. "attacked by France") are met. This could have happened to Wurtemberg in your game. This is pure specultaion on my part though...