Neda...

[CountArach]

She's a symbol

I don't see why you should get all worked up about the fact that a specific person X has the questionable honor of serving as a symbol.

QFT.

[Louis VI the Fat]

I suppose the premise of this thread is: 'Why is one death person remembered over so many unremembered others?
Or even: why Neda, and not a thousand others, Palestinian, Iraqi, Iranian or others? Or possibly: why not those deaths who could, depending one one's political point of view, be ascribed to the aggression of American and like-minded states?'

Which I am not going to argue here, apart from admitting that the questions can not simply be dismissed as rhetoric.


Why Neda?

Because of what Pape, said, because of what Xiahou said, because of what Andres said.


Because she symbolises innocence struck down by beastliness - an analogy to tyranny oppressing freedom.
Because she is easy to identify with for many people. A homeless man beaten to death, an African starving to death, they are more difficult to identify with than Neda.
Because of many things, not least of which because Neda is, simply, stunningly attractive. Her striking physical appearance combines with the circumstances of her death, with the serene brutality, into a haunting image. I have not been able to watch more than two seconds of the video of her death, nor do I know if I'll ever will or would want to.
A simple foto-collage that I watched earlier brought me to tears already. I couldn't bear watching the video.

She haunts me, she really does.

[Moros]

Also it's not that all those famous pictures that became symbols for causes contained actractive women. It's about time that an atractive woman got in one of them, it's almost as if they were discriminated by the men taking such photographs!
Think about it.
Remember that guy lying in front of a chinese tank? He wasn't an attractive woman.
Remember the little girl from vietnam running as she was getting burned by Napalm? She wasn't attractive woman
Remeber the guy getting shot by a vietnamese officer and his hadngun? Not a pretty gal either.
Remember the jew sitting in front of massgrave getting shot by a german officer in Vinnitsa? Not a pretty girl.

You see it became bloody hell time one of them was pretty girl! No more pictoral descrimination to beautifull women getting killed by governments!

[Beskar]

Always said that and I am always right, and hardly ever wrong. Can't win this beards nobody ever did.

I would be surprised if you turned around and said you was always left.

[Fragony]

I would be surprised if you turned around and said you was always left.

Did you just admit left is backward

[CountArach]

Did you just admit left is backward

Or right is backwards and you were facing the wrong way from the start.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

...Remeber the guy getting shot by a vietnamese officer and his hadngun? Not a pretty gal either....

The person whom you label as "the guy" was a Viet Cong spy/infiltrator and had been involved in assassination efforts sans uniform and not during military operations. Like Hale, the deceased too may have regretted only having one life to give for his cause, but that's the breaks for spys during war. No, he certainly was not a pretty gal.

[Devastatin Dave]

Simply put, its hard to watch a chick you wouldn't mind playing hide the sausage die on camera.

[rotorgun]

Simply put, its hard to watch a chick you wouldn't mind playing hide the sausage die on camera.

As always Dave, so delicately said.

In all seriousness though, I think that the sight of brutality towards women tends to arouse the protective emotions of most males, and the sympathy of most other women. I remember how the deaths of four students at Kent State university in Ohio at the height of the Vietnam War protests moved much of our country. There were also several females killed there as well-young and pretty too. The images are still shocking to look at even now.

[Fragony]

you wouldn't mind playing hide the sausage

omfg

Nedaaaaaaaa Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaave

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

hide the sausage

You sure that's halal?

[Louis VI the Fat]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009...ily-forced-out

The Iranian authorities have ordered the family of Neda Agha Soltan out of their Tehran home after shocking images of her death were circulated around the world.

Neighbours said that her family no longer lives in the four-floor apartment building on Meshkini Street, in eastern Tehran, having been forced to move since she was killed. The police did not hand the body back to her family, her funeral was cancelled, she was buried without letting her family know and the government banned mourning ceremonies at mosques, the neighbours said.
"We just know that they [the family] were forced to leave their flat," a neighbour said. The Guardian was unable to contact the family directly to confirm if they had been forced to leave.

The government is also accusing protesters of killing Soltan, describing her as a martyr of the Basij militia. Javan, a pro-government newspaper, has gone so far as to blame the recently expelled BBC correspondent, Jon Leyne, of hiring "thugs" to shoot her so he could make a documentary film.

Bastards.

[Husar]

Yeah, sure, that almost makes me want to go there and hire thugs to shoot the government so I can make a documentary.

As I said in the other thread, the government clearly show now what a bunch of loons they are, as far as I'm concerned there is no benefit of the doubt left, I really hope Iran has a relatively unbloody revolution and gets rid of those ayatollahs or whatever they're called.

Blaming the BBC, the only good thing to come out of Britain, pfff!

[InsaneApache]

I suppose the premise of this thread is: 'Why is one death person remembered over so many unremembered others?
Or even: why Neda, and not a thousand others, Palestinian, Iraqi, Iranian or others? Or possibly: why not those deaths who could, depending one one's political point of view, be ascribed to the aggression of American and like-minded states?'

Which I am not going to argue here, apart from admitting that the questions can not simply be dismissed as rhetoric.


Why Neda?

Because of what Pape, said, because of what Xiahou said, because of what Andres said.


Because she symbolises innocence struck down by beastliness - an analogy to tyranny oppressing freedom.
Because she is easy to identify with for many people. A homeless man beaten to death, an African starving to death, they are more difficult to identify with than Neda.
Because of many things, not least of which because Neda is, simply, stunningly attractive. Her striking physical appearance combines with the circumstances of her death, with the serene brutality, into a haunting image. I have not been able to watch more than two seconds of the video of her death, nor do I know if I'll ever will or would want to.
A simple foto-collage that I watched earlier brought me to tears already. I couldn't bear watching the video.

She haunts me, she really does.

I've just steeled myself to watch it. Harrowing. The look in her eyes made me feel very un-nerved. I wish I hadn't but I have so I'll have to live with it. I'm with Pape and the rest about why we feel empathy for one or two people but not tens of thousands. It's more than the brain can handle.

In the immortal words of Ian Dury, what a waste.

[Fragony]

I'm with Pape and the rest about why we feel empathy for one or two people but not tens of thousands. It's more than the brain can handle.

Must be it, I don't remember me becomming cold

[rory_20_uk]

As dear Stalin put it: "One death is a tragedy; one million is a statistic". Humans like a narrative. We respond better to images and video than lines of numbers. The young always are more "interesting" that the old. How often does a bomb kill people - including 3 children or women and children were killed - as though these deaths are somehow more noteworthy that the men who were maimed and killed.

Anything can be normalised by repetition. The first person I saw die was harrowing. When I was doing Care of the Elderly I sat down for lunch, got up half way through to certify someone and then went back and finished my sandwich.

[InsaneApache]

Aye but you'd go mad without that professional detachment.

[Louis VI the Fat]

I've just steeled myself to watch it. Harrowing. The look in her eyes made me feel very un-nerved. I wish I hadn't but I have so I'll have to live with it.

I am still wavering about watching.

As somebody once said (a poet? A priest?): of all the days, the day of your death is the most sacred.

There is a certain sacred intimacy to somebody's dying moments. I am not sure I want to intrude upon it.

There are many reasons to do watch it. Amongst others, Iranians risk everything to make and distribute these videos. Am I disrespectful by knowing but not watching?


This was one of the longest posts I've ever written, in a stream of consciousness to dwarf Joyce, until my computer ate it. The above two sentences will have to make do.

[InsaneApache]

It's when these 'far off' struggles hit a presonal level that we take notice. After all, we have better other things to do...

[Louis VI the Fat]

It's when these 'far off' struggles hit a presonal level that we take notice. After all, we have better other things to do...

No one can carry the weight of the world on his shoulders. Taking some interest in others, some empathy, a bit more respect, learning to be a bit kinder in our own little world - this is all we can do.

I would give up all in a struggle for global revolution, after which we all live in paradise forever. But people who've attempted that have done more harm than good - the road to hell is paved with good intentions. And as it is, trying to make some sort of sense of this world is the best I can do.

[Fragony]

Over 500 reported dead, and looks like the regime has hired some thugs. When will we be comming to their aid? Greatest oppertunity ever we can spare some tanks, I say let's kick that butt and win some hearts and minds. Wish there was a hawk in DC right now instead of a voteboy.

[Lemur]

When will we be comming to their aid? Greatest oppertunity ever we can spare some tanks, I say let's kick that butt and win some hearts and minds.

When in doubt, invade! Frag, if there's one thing that would unite the reformists with the mullahs, it would be an American invasion. Now put down that copy of Soldier of Fortune and walk away slowly.

[Fragony]

When in doubt, invade! Frag, if there's one thing that would unite the reformists with the mullahs, it would be an American invasion.

nah. Doubt they would even fight, way too much uncertainty of the future. They already have to hire thugs, means army is devided.

[Lemur]

Frag, you wound like a young Dutch Donald Rumsfeld. These same Iranians fought like hell when Saddam Hussein reached the same conclusions you are achieving now. Even with us selling him weapons, he was unable to beat them.

I don't doubt we could beat their army, but the occupation would be less than fun. Read up on American/Iranian history, starting in 1953. We have a lot of back-and-forth.

Now, if you're volunteering a Dutch invasion, by all means, get to it!

[Fragony]

Now, if you're volunteering a Dutch invasion, by all means, get to it!

Pfffft, why not. Sure Israel would like the idea and can lend a hand. Kick it when it's down.

[Ser Clegane]

means army is devided.

Even if it was - any threat from the outside would probably be the best way to unite it against the outsider.

I cannot believe somebody is seriously suggesting a military intervention from a foreign force to "solve" the whole situation

[Fragony]

Why not. It's a pretty big thing that is happening, we should use the momentum. All this talk makes me sick bunch of cowards that we are, these protesters have balls&boobs of steel they deserve our support, military if necesary but we shouldn't let this slip from our hands. With support from Israel we should be able to do some serious damage, together we have 4 times their budget and much better gear. If these beards remain Israel will eventually attack anyway, why not do it now for all the right reasons.

[KukriKhan]

Airfare Amsterdam to Tehran: less than 1,000 Euros.

[Fragony]

rather pointless

[Husar]

Nono, Fragony, I would do that if the opposition outright demanded it, but otherwise it is their revolution and as has been said, it could easily be taken the wrong way.
It might work for a faction that isn't seen as a selfish interventionist power by the iranians, like, I don't know, China perhaps?