Re: The U.S. Health Care Debate
I'm a firm believer that Medical Care is one of the "big three" along with Law Enforcement, and Fire & Rescue. It should be free at the point of use. That could either mean that A: it comes direct from your taxes, or B: everybody pays for state health insurrance that does not go up if you use it and is affordably low to begin with.
After all, you wouldn't expect to have to pay the fireman to put our house out or save your child, you shouldn't have to pay a state Doctor for his services, either.
"If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."
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Re: The U.S. Health Care Debate
If you're storing petrol in open containers and go around the house smoking I do think you should pay for cleaning up the resulting explosion.Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla
Similarly with healthcare. There are some risks we can't alter in our lives for certain diseases be it gender, ethnicity or other underlying genetic problem, but the vast majority we can, be it the drunk morons that come in on Friday night to the 45 year old drinker / smoker / no exercise / high fat diet for the last 30 years who'se finally had his overdue heart attack.
There are several ways of doing this. A tax on alcohol / tobacco that is ring-fenced for the healthcare, these people should pay more insurance - in the same way that if I drive a Ford Fiesta I'll pay significantly less insurance than if I choose to drive a Nissan GTR - and / or a charge for attending A&E. £5 or £10 still means about a 90% subsidy by the state assuming no treatment is required, but at least this discourages the true timewasters. If you've had an MI then £10 for over £1,000 treatment is still the bargain of the century.
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Re: The U.S. Health Care Debate
There are several ways of doing this.
I don't completely disagree with your first suggestion, I don't think we should charge at the medical end of the scale but when they actually buy the product. So alcohol and cigerettes for example should have tax on them at the point of purchase. I don't think alcohol does but considering ive heard figures of around 75% of the price of a pack of cigerettes is tax i think cigerettes more than make up for thier bruden on the health service (the fact that that money doesn't go to the health service is the goverments fault) Alcohol in comparison seems quite cheap, junk food also, is dirt cheap for the harm it causes long term.
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Re: The U.S. Health Care Debate
You may not have to pay the fireman to put out the fire in your house, but you or your insurance company will have to pay for the damages to the house.
Re: The U.S. Health Care Debate
Safeway, the US company, has had success in keeping insurance payments for their employees steady - as in not increasing while the rest of the nation does. They've done that by providing incentives, ie lower insurance prices, for healthier employees. The result is healthier employees and non-increasing costs. But they are still limited in the size of incentives they can provide to healthy employees.
In Texas they had success in putting a lid on malpractice payoffs.
Of course, Obama wants to go with neither of these two proven methods.
We should allow insurance companies/employers to charge unhealthy employees the full amount more that it costs to insure them (ie charge a smoker $1400 more per year instead of being limited to charging only $300 more per year compared to a non-smoker [approximated costs, of course]), and pass a federal law putting a lid on malpractice payoffs.
CR
Ja Mata, Tosa.
The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter – all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement! - William Pitt the Elder
Re: The U.S. Health Care Debate
I'm on-board too. I'm convinced that my vices (cigarettes, beer) will probably statistically not only shorten my life, but also make end-of-life measures more expensive. I'll pay for that, for the privilege of indulging my bad habits.
But again, we're not talking about health care here, we're talking about insurance, and betting with or against "the odds", and putting down the appropriate ante into the insurance "pot".
-edit-
I have a (:crosses fingers:) stellar driving record: no accidents or citations in 44 years and 2.5 million miles driven. Yet I know that I will pay more to GEICO to insure a fire engine red convertible Corvette, than I will for a beige tudor ford escort. The Corvette will cost more to replace, and it's a both citation- and accident-magnet.
Last edited by KukriKhan; 06-27-2009 at 01:52.
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Re: The U.S. Health Care Debate
They don't, tho. The 'smokers should pay' garbage is just a guilt trip. If you get lung cancer and die of it, you'll spend 6 months in a hospital dieing on pain meds around age 70. If you live to 98 with full blown Alzheimer's you'll need round the clock care, often costing as much as 7-8k a month until you finally pass. Plus, you paid more into the healthcare kitty with all your sin tax contributions from buying your cigarettes (I know you get your's from the Ukraine, but you get the idea).
Whether it's more expensive or not, it shouldn't matter. Should homosexual men pay more for insurance since their lifestyle puts them at higher risk for disease? Should blacks pay more for their higher incident rates for heart conditions? How about the obese? You eat more than two cheeseburgers a week and you better pay, fatty. What about scuba divers and their burden on emergency care?
Make it honestly universal or don't bother at all, sez I.
Last edited by Proletariat; 06-27-2009 at 02:15.
Re: The U.S. Health Care Debate
I like how Gelantinous Cube pretty much has the free universal healthcare option because he is in the army, but is against it. In America, isn't it 60% cannot afford Health Insurance? I remember seeing Americans get chemo-treatment then stay in tents outside the hospital as they couldn't afford to have a bed on the inside due to the costs.
Basic and Essential Healthcare should be free as a human right. However, if you want cosmetics or anything like that, you pay for it. (outside grievous injury and other things)
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Re: The U.S. Health Care Debate
The opinion essay about the Safeway insurance said that it cost the company $1400 more per year to insure a smoker. I can't speak for whatever method they used to come up with that number. They also did do health check-ups on employees, so obese people did pay more.They don't, tho. The 'smokers should pay' garbage is just a guilt trip. If you get lung cancer and die of it, you'll spend 6 months in a hospital dieing on pain meds around age 70. If you live to 98 with full blown Alzheimer's you'll need round the clock care, often costing as much as 7-8k a month until you finally pass. Plus, you paid more into the healthcare kitty with all your sin tax contributions from buying your cigarettes (I know you get your's from the Ukraine, but you get the idea).
Whether it's more expensive or not, it shouldn't matter. Should homosexual men pay more for insurance since their lifestyle puts them at higher risk for disease? Should blacks pay more for their higher incident rates for heart conditions? How about the obese? You eat more than two cheeseburgers a week and you better pay, fatty. What about scuba divers and their burden on emergency care?
Make it honestly universal or don't bother at all, sez I.
In America, isn't it 60% cannot afford Health Insurance?
No. Much, much less.
No, he doesn't. He earned that healthcare and it was not free.I like how Gelantinous Cube pretty much has the free universal healthcare option because he is in the army
Why should it be a right for a sick person to take money from others to get care for themselves?Basic and Essential Healthcare should be free as a human right.
CR
Ja Mata, Tosa.
The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter – all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement! - William Pitt the Elder
Re: The U.S. Health Care Debate
Why should it be a right for a sick person to take money from others to get care for themselves?
Because whereas some animals leave thier sick to look after themselves we like to think we are above that.
In remembrance of our great Admin Tosa Inu, A tireless worker with the patience of a saint. As long as I live I will not forget you. Thank you for everything!
Re: The U.S. Health Care Debate
Commie!
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Last edited by Husar; 06-27-2009 at 13:39.
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Re: The U.S. Health Care Debate
AS far as I am aware, soldiers get free healthcare, and support after discharge. So it's a non-issue with the employer picking up the tab.
Massive detail into lifestyle would be difficult, but considering here in the UK most of the needed data is held by GPs it would be very simple to develop quite complex pictures about health. Would some lie? Probably. But as with all insurance it is invalidated if falsification is found.
An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
Science flies you to the moon, religion flies you into buildings.
"If you can't trust the local kleptocrat whom you installed by force and prop up with billions of annual dollars, who can you trust?" Lemur
If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain.
The best argument against democracy is a five minute talk with the average voter. Winston Churchill
Re: The U.S. Health Care Debate
There is a bit of a difference between smoking and joining the military, and American soldiers certainly should enjoy subsidized health insurance because:
1) They are working for their country in one of the most difficult jobs it offers.
2) There is a large difference between working in a necessary job and killing yourself with junk food.
3) For all the things that they sacrifice it is the least that we can do in return.
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