Xanthippos?

[Julius Augustus]

Sheesh, people, I just called the Greeks barbarians as a joke. I know the word originates from Greek. I didn't mean to start a flamewar. Just making a joke.
And also, Greeks are the best. My favorite faction is Makedonia. Within 15 years in my Makedonia campaign, I had conquered all of Italy, and burned Rome to the ground. Memories, the memories.

[Watchman]

Makedonians mostly counted as "Greeks" on a technicality though...

[Reality=Chaos]

In fact the Chinese term may have been less deragotory.

From Wiki, which has an ok article on "Barbarian" as I already mentioned.

The Chinese (Han Chinese) of the Chinese Empire sometimes (depends on the dynasty, geographic location, and timeline) regarded the Xiongnu, Tatars, Turks, Mongols, Jurchens, Manchus, Japanese, Koreans, Vietnamese and Europeans as "barbaric". The Chinese used different terms for "barbarians" from different directions of the compass. Those in the east were called Dongyi (東夷), those in the west were called Xirong (西戎), those in the south were called Nanman (南蠻), and those in the north were called Beidi (北狄). However, despite the conventional translation of such terms (especially 夷) as "barbarian", in fact it is possible to translate them simply as 'outsider' or 'stranger', with far less offensive cultural connotations.

I'm not too sure about that.... The ancient chinese had a severe superiority complex (like many old cultures btw) Chinese is what is good and civilized anything outside of that sphere is a stranger, outsider which makes him barbarian. Anyway I do not have any evidence for this so I'll go along with you.... I DO know that the japanese term Gaijin IS very derogatory... with a similar reasoning behind it.... The chinese and japanese generally seemed to look benignly on "barbarians" but also something as less then Chinese/Japanese, which led in several instances to rather violent and nasty episodes....

@ Maion. I can se your point.... The point that Knight of Heaven (and I in turn) were trying to make is that the term civilized is rather relative. And that definitions of what is civilized are wildly different across the world. therefore saying that one group is more civilized than another is rather strange... After all by whom's definition were they more civilized. i am not saying that the celts were more civilized than the greeks... Not at all... I am simply saying that both were sophisticated civilizations. What we know of Celtic law is intruiging indeed for example. Also women had a much less subservient role in society (mind you they were still subservient) I am not saying that this makes them better than the greeks, but on a social level they had huge sophistication. The greeks on the other hand were culturally much stronger in other areas, which they excelled at. Squaring the two off against one another is nothing more then a personal choice of cultural preference I think, not a case of one being more civilized than the other....

[Maion Maroneios]

Yeah, I should probably burn my keyboard or something. I get way too serious on these subjects. In RL I tend to point my finger towards anyone who speaks inaccurately about Ancient History (even to the point of becoming unberable sometimes), and debates make me passionate. Anyway, I guess I take stuff that people say waay too serious. Neglecting that some people actually joke sometimes.

Maion

[Reality=Chaos]

Yeah, I should probably burn my keyboard or something. I get way too serious on these subjects. In RL I tend to point my finger towards anyone who speaks inaccurately about Ancient History (even to the point of becoming unberable sometimes), and debates make me passionate. Anyway, I guess I take stuff that people say waay too serious. Neglecting that some people actually joke sometimes.

Maion

I personally Do not find your fanatical loyalty to Arche Makedonia irritating... Though I do not share your preference for makedonia, I do like the way it spices things up a bit

[Mikhail Mengsk]

It's a bit hard for the first time, but after that it's only some kind of "forum game": romaioktonoi vs rest-of-the-ANCIENT-world XD

[Maion Maroneios]

I'm not fanatical about Makedonia. I'm fanatical about historical accuracy. The whole Romaioi-hating thing is a joke, people. Plus, I'm also a KH fan you know. I actually have much more common with them, seeing my father hails from the shores of Mikra Asia and migrated to Paros in the Cyclades after the disaster of 1922. I started this thing because of the fact that I'm getting infuriated with people saying Celts were advanced because they used some primitive form of soap. I mean, come one give me a break!

Maion

[Watchman]

They were also well on their way to doing the Middle Ages over a millenia early when Caesar came and canceled any further "homegrown" developement, you know...

[Reality=Chaos]

I'm not fanatical about Makedonia. I'm fanatical about historical accuracy. The whole Romaioi-hating thing is a joke, people. Plus, I'm also a KH fan you know. I actually have much more common with them, seeing my father hails from the shores of Mikra Asia and migrated to Paros in the Cyclades after the disaster of 1922. I started this thing because of the fact that I'm getting infuriated with people saying Celts were advanced because they used some primitive form of soap. I mean, come one give me a break!

Maion

I can sympathyze with the soap thing

[Xurr]

I actually already killed him, He faced off with my Golden Chevroned Trirarii and got owned hehehe Lol

Nice, but just remember Pedites Extraordinarii tear apart Hoplites even if they are Spartiatai.

[Mikhail Mengsk]

I'm not fanatical about Makedonia. I'm fanatical about historical accuracy. The whole Romaioi-hating thing is a joke, people. Plus, I'm also a KH fan you know. I actually have much more common with them, seeing my father hails from the shores of Mikra Asia and migrated to Paros in the Cyclades after the disaster of 1922. I started this thing because of the fact that I'm getting infuriated with people saying Celts were advanced because they used some primitive form of soap. I mean, come one give me a break!

Maion

And my roots also obviously make me a Roman supporter ;-) no problems in that

YOU LOSE! MUAHAHAHAHHAHA ROMA VICTRIX! MUAHAHAHAHA

[Rabhadh]

Fighting naked, sleeping with my fellow soldiers, and living in shacks and cottages isn't what I would call "civilized" my friend.

You know, I just couldn't resist quoting this, we're talking about Greeks here, and we all know how much Greeks love "sleeping" with other men

[Maion Maroneios]

Well, Greek scholars wrote that and considered it weird since they had the most beautiful women. And if this seems weird to you, it's from the times of the Celtic invasion of Greece. Wow, "homosexuals" find sleeping with men strange? Wow, Aristophanes called the Eromenoi "euryproktoi" (wide-arses)? How could that be? Ohhh yes, because they were all homosexuals and thought of homosexualism as weird, of course.

Also, welcome to the fora

Maion

[Watchman]

Dude. Everyone knows Ancient Greeks were all about teh ghey and pederasty.

[ARCHIPPOS]

elaborate on the text below... it's quoted by gen Patton...
The difficulty in understanding the Russian is that we do not take cognizance of the fact that he is not a European, but an Asiatic, and therefore thinks deviously(wtf???). We can no more understand a Russian than a Chinese or a Japanese, and from what I have seen of them, I have no particular desire to understand them except to ascertain how much lead or iron it takes to kill them. In addition to his other amiable characteristics, the Russian has no regard for human life and they are all out sons-of-bitches, barbarians, and chronic drunks.

we all carry a fair amount of prejudice ,stereotypes , judgemental bullshit and generalities... even smart people like Patton...

[Reality=Chaos]

elaborate on the text below... it's quoted by gen Patton...
The difficulty in understanding the Russian is that we do not take cognizance of the fact that he is not a European, but an Asiatic, and therefore thinks deviously(wtf???). We can no more understand a Russian than a Chinese or a Japanese, and from what I have seen of them, I have no particular desire to understand them except to ascertain how much lead or iron it takes to kill them. In addition to his other amiable characteristics, the Russian has no regard for human life and they are all out sons-of-bitches, barbarians, and chronic drunks.

we all carry a fair amount of prejudice ,stereotypes , judgemental bullshit and generalities... even smart people like Patton...

Hear Hear

[Knight of Heaven]

Well, Greek scholars wrote that and considered it weird since they had the most beautiful women. And if this seems weird to you, it's from the times of the Celtic invasion of Greece. Wow, "homosexuals" find sleeping with men strange? Wow, Aristophanes called the Eromenoi "euryproktoi" (wide-arses)? How could that be? Ohhh yes, because they were all homosexuals and thought of homosexualism as weird, of course.

Also, welcome to the fora

Maion

Look all good maion, i dont mean to be rude, just to defend myself, my point was the defenition of civilized is a very delicate matter, also i belive generaly speaking, people dont give the right credit to celtic factions and their contributes in humanty history, In social matters mainly they were very progressive, for that era.
All i heard is All greeks this, all romans this, etc off course there is reasons to do that. And they were amazing civilizations, with their own time.
But there is alot of aspects, that dont have a good foundation. For instance they say the gauls were devided, and fight each other... of course thats true, manny tribes, with manny rivals, and alot of wars among each other. But greeks dont? the romans dont? lol just and example.

About homosexuals, well this was a transversal reality in all human societies, what changed was the way one can look at that.
The greeks were famous to be more tolerants, and valorize, passion,love,afection,lust etc.
The relations among persons, should be man or women,speacialy in higher classes, were more open minded, for that time. Do not mistake this with marriage, marriage values werent the same as today of course.
And off course not every greek thinked and lived all the sameway.

[Maion Maroneios]

About homosexuals, well this was a transversal reality in all human societies, what changed was the way one can look at that.
The greeks were famous to be more tolerants, and valorize, passion,love,afection,lust etc.
The relations among persons, should be man or women,speacialy in higher classes, were more open minded, for that time. Do not mistake this with marriage, marriage values werent the same as today of course.
And off course not every greek thinked and lived all the sameway.

We agree on this completely.

Maion

[bovi]