The History Channel: From Hitler to Freemasons

[Sheogorath]

Am I the only one who misses it when the History Channel had a WWII fetish? It seems now that every single program MUST mention, somewhere, Freemasonry, and its massive and ill-defined conspiracy. In fact, the only definite information they seem to give on the Freemasons is that all major US leaders are Freemasons, and that they're engaged in some kind of implied sinister conspiracy.

Exactly what this conspiracy is to accomplish, nobody seems to know. Even the 'Freemason Experts' they bring on. They just say "THERE IS A CONSPIRACY." They don't even bother to add "THEY WILL EAT OUR SOULS." It's just a CONSPIRACY for the sake of being a conspiracy. Religion figures into it somewhere too, although whether they're pagans, Protestant zealots or agnostics doesn't seem important. There's also some stuff about the constitution, but frankly I can't see how evil encouraging free thought is unless you're Louis XVI.

As far as I can figure out, it's something like this:

Knights Templar = Freemasons = US leadership

Therefore,

Jews and Catholics = Illuminati = Everybody else

So the secret alliance of Catholics and Jews known as the Illuminati battle the protestant (possibly) Freemasons. The History Channel unaccountably fails to mention this.


At least when they had a Hitler fetish we got to see cool videos of tanks shooting things. Now all we get is people in wigs sitting around tables in smokey rooms and OHMIGODWASHINGTONDCISAGIANTPENTAGRAM.

I wish I got History International. It seems they've moved all their good programming over there.

[Adrian II]

I wish I got History International. It seems they've moved all their good programming over there.

I rarely watch tv anymore and never enjoy it. I didn't know the History Channel broadcast such crap..

I remember at least some decent HC programs back in my tv days - that's ten years ago though.

*limps off*

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

Yep, I too remember it. Around 2002 when I first watched it, it was good - now it has gone down a lot.

[Beskar]

I was looking at application forms for positions related to the British Justice system, on the applications, they had this one question which just made me go "What the hell?".

"Are you a Freemason? Yes/No"

[Monk]

You forgot their doomsday programing, and their UFO conspiracies, and things that have nothing to do with history like their reality shows.

[Hosakawa Tito]

Don't forget the Skull & Bones Society at Yale. Even though the conspiracy theory is pretty far out there on the believability scale it is based on some historical facts, then mixed with large doses of fantasy. Besides it's good to know who your wackos are and what's on their mind. Not all the commentators in the program agree with the conspiracy theory, some refute it.

[Sheogorath]

You forgot their doomsday programing, and their UFO conspiracies, and things that have nothing to do with history like their reality shows.

Ugh. Ice Road Truckers makes me want to punch something. Especially when they run an ALL DAY MARATHON. I won't even get into Ax Men and the horror's its spawned on Discovery Channel.
SWAMP LOGGERS! ICE LOGGERS! ITS AX MEN, BUT IN A SWAMP!

[Beskar]

Oh yeah, the "Conspiracy" is the New World Order and the construction of the Temple of Solomon.

In the Mason constitution, they are all members who believe in a supreme being and are tasked with rebuilding the Temple of Solomon, which Muslims for example, accuse Freemasonry as a Zionist conspiracy (as a certain religious building of theirs has to be destroyed first for this to happen). The fact for example after invasion of Iraq, America forced the law banning Freemasonry to be repealed and thus opened the Land, Sea and Sky freemasonry temple in Iraq.

Freemasons have been a very powerful organistation, politically, across Europe and in America with many of its symbolism carved out.

Denying these facts is simply like peeing into the wind, it is denying one of the most powerful forces at work which has carved out Europe, America and vast majority of the modern world.

[Beskar]

The whole conspiracy angle is this. There is a big cabal involving many societies such as freemasonry in others which would focus its power on creating a New World, usually dictated under totalaritarian principles and even then, these forces fight amongst themselves in trying to produce this aim. Basically, it is like the "Hidden War" as on the surface, the ignorance of many is that it simply does not exist while to others, it is the whole of their existence, on many levels.

These forces apparently work in many ways with many people being faces of this and that governments are puppets of this whole agenda as these are the people behind the strings, pulling things. With their aims of making money, social engineering and others in hopes of producing the effects they want.

With Skulls and Bones for example, in the previous election with Bush and Kerry, they were both Skull and Bones members. This is a secret yale society which they all have top jobs in private and public sectors and areas of control, in a sense, it is a group of croynism where they all play favourites so people in their inner circle get the jobs. As you can guess, this isn't the only society out there too, there are others like the Freemasons, etc.

That is all of it, in a pure nutshell.

[Husar]

I'm afraid we've lost sheogorath to the freemasons...

[Hooahguy]

i dont even own a tv.... (the shows i want to watch, like family guy, are on Hulu)
i have my grandfather record shows on history channel (like Patton 360) and military channel (like best ranger competition) and ship them down to me, which he loves doing because it gives him an excuse to watch tv as well.

[Meneldil]

The whole conspiracy angle is this. There is a big cabal involving many societies such as freemasonry in others which would focus its power on creating a New World, usually dictated under totalaritarian principles and even then, these forces fight amongst themselves in trying to produce this aim. Basically, it is like the "Hidden War" as on the surface, the ignorance of many is that it simply does not exist while to others, it is the whole of their existence, on many levels.

What the hell? Are you being serious?

I won't comment on the Illuminati, as they just don't exist anymore, and on the Bones and Skulls, as those exist (though nothing point to a 'zomg conspiracy') but if you think freemasonery is a force at work to create a New World Order (tm), then I want what you're smoking.

[Beskar]

That is what the conspiracy is. In senses, it is completely believable in some areas. Think about it this way, says you are a bank manager and out of the people who applied, your brother was one of them. Would you show favour to your brother and employ him? Typically, even though we might not admit it, the general answer is yes.

Now widen this, to family and friends. Would you do the same? Typical answer is yes.

What about your community, let's say you are a strong church goer and some one you knew there which you got along well with, you generally show favouritism and they get that job.

With secret societies such as Freemasons, Skull and Bones, etc, this is what happens, they are members of these communities and these people look after eachother. You rub some one elses back, they rub yours. This way, let's say members got into big serious positions, they get other members in other ones and soon enough, a society could gain a foothold in that area and could be argued as such, this happens with politicians. If we were a true meritocracy, what are the chances of a grandfather, father and son getting into positions of power like they did, even with the latter two being US presidents? Or the case of even two seemingly random people (Bush and Kerry), even in different parties end up belonging to the same secret society. The so-called Old Boys clique which is present in Westiminister in British Politics (The Eden boys).

It is these processes how things like this happen, if you say it small time, such as a butcher showing favour to a friends son, you wouldn't bat an eyelid, but what about a US president appointing some one as head of the federal reserve (or a powerful position similar to that).

The whole idea is that a cabal, full of these different groups are seeking World Domination, in a sense, a league of evil villains and instead of superman versus them one by one, unable to sololy do it themselves, the super villains work together and therefore defeat superman and actually win. It is this self-interest which sprout all sorts of secret societies, meetings and other things, such as Bohemian Grove and Bildenburg.

The whole idea of secret meetings bring panic and disturb people. Imagine world leaders in various areas all having a party together, rubbing eachother backs, doing seedy deals, wanting to further agendas which to men and women on the street are strict no's. lack of transparency and accountability.

It is this primal fear which gives wake to the terrible idea of the grand conspiracy, the conspiracy of the New World Order of total domination over the planet. Secret Organistations dating through hundreds of years, considerably changing our very history through their political manoeuvring. From the fall of governments, to the rise of new ones, the self-interest, creating divides, trying to conquer us all.

The question really is - Are these groups really working together as a cabal for the grand conspiracy or not? The question of existence is a non-issue, they really do exist, it is whether or not, as a matter of faith, they are the embodiment of our worse fears.

[Meneldil]

People helping eachothers because they belong to a same group doesn't mean they're part of a conspiracy.
Otherwise we could claim there's a worldwide chinese, mexican or algerian conspiracy because chineses, mexicans or algerians tend to help eachother when they live in a foreign country.

The only conspiracies in which freemasonry took part lately here in France (where Freemasonery had always been a strong force) were a few financial or political scandals. Some dude helped a 'brother' to get a public job. Some other dude stole a few thousands €. That's about it.

Now I get your point. People are generally afraid of secret/secretive organizations, such as freemasonry. They also for some reason crave for conspiracy theories (as described in Eco's Foucault's Pendulum). Yet, these fears lack any real basis and are completely irrational.

To use for a 'personal experience' argument, I know my grand father was member of the back then most prestigious lodge, and was quite high-ranked (can't remember the exact name of it, Something something of Sion), as well as a member of the (back then) extremely powerful radical party. I pretty much doubt he was part of a judeo bolchevick satanic plot to take over the world and destroy religion. And it does not look like he appointed his children to prestigious offices either ;).

[Sarmatian]

The question really is - Are these groups really working together as a cabal for the grand conspiracy or not? The question of existence is a non-issue, they really do exist, it is whether or not, as a matter of faith, they are the embodiment of our worse fears.

If those groups do exist and have been trying to take over the world for the last two thousand years, they aren't doing a really good job since political power has been gradually shifting all that time from a small elite to the general population.

One of my friends used to be a member of Freemasons in New Zealand. He was pretty junior, but from what he told me, it's really nothing more than a club for some influential people to meet other influential people so that they could do business together. Taking over the world wasn't on the agenda, at least when he was a member....

On the issue, I find History Channel rather pathetic. They generally distort events to make them more interesting in order get better ratings. Sometimes there's something good, but that's rare...

[Louis VI the Fat]

I know my grand father was member of the back then most prestigious lodge, and was quite high-ranked (can't remember the exact name of it, Something something of Sion), as well as a member of the (back then) extremely powerful radical party. I pretty much doubt he was part of a judeo bolchevick satanic plot to take over the world and destroy religion.

Le Prieuré de Sion peurhaps? But that's an ultra-Catholic lodge, plotting against the Judeo-Bolchevik plot#to destroy religion.

However that may be, to quote Napoleon: c'est un tas d'imbéciles qui s'assemblent pour faire bonne chère et exécuter quelques folies ridicules.
('They are persons of limited intellect who gather for laffs and the execution of silly follies.')

[Veho Nex]

I miss the WW2 fetishes... *cry*

[Devastatin Dave]

Expedition Africa.... uhg. Althoug the chick in it has some nice taters.
The History Channel sucks. I stopped watching it when they cancelled Decisive Battles.

[Kurando]

Well, I don't make it any secret that I myself am a Freemason. For about 15 years or so I have belonged to Britannia Lodge #73, part of the Grand Lodge of British Columbia and Yukon.

I am not particularly well traveled in Masonry, but I am aquainted with many who are, (some of whom were WW2 vets), and I can honestly say that I have never heard anything that would point towards conspiracies involving Freemasons in WW2 or elsewhere. Moreover, an epic battle between Catholic/Jewish interests and Protestant Freemasons in Europe seems far-fetched to say the least.

Besides, I am a Buddhist, and I know quit a few Sikh's and even a few Muslims who are Freemasons, so who's side would we fight on if there ever was such a battle??

I am very proud to be a Mason, especially since we raise over one million dollars each day for our Shriners Children's Hospital and affiliated charities. But even so, if I ever caught wind of actual conspiracies, or of Freemasonry being used en mass to control things in a way that wasn't obviously benefiting of the entire world, I would resign from the Lodge.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Besides, I am a Buddhist, and I know quit a few Sikh's and even a few Muslims who are Freemasons, so who's side would we fight on if there ever was such a battle??

Easy.

I saw on the television that the Buddist lodge fights the ultra-Catholic Sions over control of Central Asian oil and pipelines. It says so in the Chartres Cathedral labyrinth. The Sion lodge got you real good when they blew up those Buddha's in Afghanistan together with the Kabul Muslim Cabal.

The Sikhs! Sikhs! Sikhs! lodge is a satanist cult.

[CountArach]

The best History Channel programs are the ones with the biblical doomsday prophecies. Usually around Easter.

[Csargo]

You forgot their doomsday programing, and their UFO conspiracies, and things that have nothing to do with history like their reality shows.

I stopped watching because of all that. The History Channel used to be pretty much the only channel I'd watch. Now I hardly watch any tv besides a few shows.

[Hooahguy]

The best History Channel programs are the ones with the biblical doomsday prophecies. Usually around Easter.

did you catch the commercials for the "when humans are gone" show? reminds me of the Rainbow Six book, where

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

basically a bunch of lunatic scientists want to wipe out humanity (expect for themselves) so nature could regrow in places where humans had once been, with the images in my head of the possible outcome of the story if Rainbow failed looking a lot like the shots on that tv show.

i remember when the Battle BC series premiered a bunch of the historians at the EB forums were dissecting it and some of the errors it contained.
i also found it funny how the history channel can go so in depth of a battle in the bible (specifically when the Levites were commanded to kill the people who worshiped the golden calf) when only a few verses are ever attributed to that "battle" and then the historians started saying things like "the Levites were Moses's praetorian guard.

[Sheogorath]

did you catch the commercials for the "when humans are gone" show? reminds me of the Rainbow Six book, where

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

basically a bunch of lunatic scientists want to wipe out humanity (expect for themselves) so nature could regrow in places where humans had once been, with the images in my head of the possible outcome of the story if Rainbow failed looking a lot like the shots on that tv show.

i remember when the Battle BC series premiered a bunch of the historians at the EB forums were dissecting it and some of the errors it contained.
i also found it funny how the history channel can go so in depth of a battle in the bible (specifically when the Levites were commanded to kill the people who worshiped the golden calf) when only a few verses are ever attributed to that "battle" and then the historians started saying things like "the Levites were Moses's praetorian guard.

The History Channel, when it does actual historical programming, seems to have a strong bias towards whatever the 'main character' of the show is. For example, the 'Chinas First Emperor' show makes a big deal about how Shi Huangdi's army was half a million strong, larger than Napoleons, apparently.
Besides not being able to find any information on the size of Shi Huangdi's army, it seems the Grand Armee's size is estimated to be between 550,000 and 600,000. Napoleons force used in the invasion of Russia totaled some 700,000. The Russian army at the same time had almost a million men, at its peak.
The History Channel is entertainment, not education. Sadly, they seem to have dropped all presence at 'education' recently and shifted that over to History International, which you have to pay for :\

[Banquo's Ghost]

The Sikhs! Sikhs! Sikhs! lodge is a satanist cult.

Now that's worthy of maestro Gregoshi.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Oh, I agree... as soon as they started doing religion program after religion program about the end of days.... That's not history. That's not even reality. It's fiction about the future, and poorly written at that. It belongs on the religion channels.

If they were doing a historical look at religion, that would be one thing. If they were talking about which movements shaped history, that's another. Religion is a major part of history and it should be studied and preserved as history. When religious belief about the future is marketed as history, or all these shows about Noah's Ark and other myths (involving zero science either for or against it) are being presented as history, I know they have sold out and simply become trash TV.

Even if they wanted to (taking the Noah story as an example) put forward a totally Biblical story and put a sympathetic slant on it, they could at least put up timelines and theories about when and where it happened. There's almost no educational value whatsoever. You might as well just have a dude reading from the Bible and call it religion, and not camouflage it as history.

[Meneldil]

Le Prieuré de Sion peurhaps? But that's an ultra-Catholic lodge, plotting against the Judeo-Bolchevik plot#to destroy religion.

However that may be, to quote Napoleon: c'est un tas d'imbéciles qui s'assemblent pour faire bonne chère et exécuter quelques folies ridicules.
('They are persons of limited intellect who gather for laffs and the execution of silly follies.')

The Prieuré de Sion has never existed except in the imagination of the madman who wrote about it and claimed to be a member. Dan Brown can keep on writing amateurish books about it, it won't make it a historical truth.

I'm talking about his ranks. I'm not an expert on Freemasonry, but among the many ranks of the French freemasonry (based on the Accepted Scottish Rite), I think a few use the word Sion. He was a member of the Grand Orient de France, which would hardly be an ultra-catholic lodge: it has been fighting the french Church more or less since the Revolution and had been labelled as the work of Satan by some Pope in the late 19th.

I also disagree with Napoleon's statement. Of course, french freemasonry became a joke between 1799 and 1870, mostly because the Emperors and Kings who ruled during this era did their best to infiltrate freemasonry with their own men. Cambacérès and Louis Murat became unofficial leaders of the french freemasonry respectively during the 1st and 2nd Empire.
Then, after 1870, freemasonry became a major political force in France (much more than it was in 1789, despite all the religious nutjobs claiming 1789 was the first step of a freemason plot). Most french public characters from the left and centre-left were member of one of the various lodges. The Radical Party and the Grand Orient de France were more or less the same thing. The socialist party was also strongly tied to freemasonry.
Though I don't agree at all with any conspiracy theory, it's pretty much a given that most of the laws on which the french republic is based (laïcité, separation of the church and state, the universal aim to improve Man and Society through education) are the work of 3 or 4 important french lodges.


Overall, claiming there's a vast freemason conspiracy is foolish. Each country has its own freemasonry (french freemasonry is deeply anti-religious, unlike British or American freemasonry). Some freemasons are catholics, some are protestants, some - as pointed out earlier - are jews, muslims, hindus or sikhs. Freemasonry is nowadays in Europe a lobby group with little power and a prestige that is slowly fading after each new scandal. Most of the freemasons I know (which is quite telling of the supposed secretive aspect of the group: many people keep bragging about their membership) are simply too stupid to be plotting to establish a New World Order tm.

[Rhyfelwyr]

There's not even any sort of consensus on the rapture idea in Christianity anyway, its just a US thing mostly. Anyway, we all know Jesus said the world would end on 21st December 2012...

The Independent Orange Order is the one I would be most likely to be involved with, they are stricter with the religious side and less on the fanciful ceremonies than the original Orange Lodge.

[Hooahguy]

as i was watching Patton 360, i realized that i knew all this stuff already.
so it seems like the history channel is only good for people who dont know much about history?
this is why i watch the military channel the most.

[Beskar]

I am not particularly well traveled in Masonry, but I am aquainted with many who are, (some of whom were WW2 vets), and I can honestly say that I have never heard anything that would point towards conspiracies involving Freemasons in WW2 or elsewhere. Moreover, an epic battle between Catholic/Jewish interests and Protestant Freemasons in Europe seems far-fetched to say the least.

Many of the important people were Freemasons, such as Hitler himself, and there are links between Freemasons in Germany and that of America, where is where Bush Jr's grandfather comes into place as his masonic lodge assisting Hitler.

This goes into other areas such as members of the Russian Communist party and others were Freemasons and received funding and finincal support for various things.

Also, why would those at the bottom know about the things at the top? The whole charity work can be seen as a front, while those at the top know what is really going on.