Thank You America

[Vladimir]

http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblog...mer_1.asp#more

America chose to save us from the most evil party, and the most despicable President in the universe [Saddam]. Meanwhile, the Arab powers stood firmly against the American project. They used all means to thwart them, but Allah’s will had another say in this matter. America turned the Ba’athists into the world’s laughing stock by showing them fleeing in their underwear on live television. Meanwhile, the Arab powers turned those cowards into national heroes on their satellite channels.

While our soldiers fight in their pink underwear, others run away wearing a discolored version of theirs.

So. Is the thanks of this and many other Iraqis enough to justify the sacrifices we made?

I like how the author implies that the US was an agent of Allah's will.

[CountArach]

I have a feeling the Iraqis would've risen up against Saddam anyway. Or at least they would have without the trade sanctions making them dependent on him.

Or am I misinterpreting your question...?

[Vladimir]

I have a feeling the Iraqis would've risen up against Saddam anyway. Or at least they would have without the trade sanctions making them dependent on him.

Or am I misinterpreting your question...?

Well they did after the first Gulf War, and they were slaughtered. "The People" also arose against the Chinese government and recently in Iran. Don't rely on some idealistic people's revolution.

This is mostly an interesting article to share. A lot of Americans want people to love us; this is a case it appears there is someone who does.

[CountArach]

Well they did after the first Gulf War, and they were slaughtered. "The People" also arose against the Chinese government and recently in Iran. Don't rely on some idealistic people's revolution.

It has worked in the past. It will work again. Iran is not an open/shut case, there is still potential and unrest there.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

It has worked in the past. It will work again. Iran is not an open/shut case, there is still potential and unrest there.

The state has many more ways to keep track of you and then kill you than it did 20, even 10, years ago. The Marxist ideal of the "People's Revolution" is well and truly dead, and was never a reality anyway. Every revolution has support either from within the local elite or from an outside power.

Case in Point: In 1991 George Bush Snr told the Iraqis that if they rose up against Saddam the US and Nato would support them. They didn't and the Iraqis were slaughtered, the Marsh Arabs had their homeland drained and hence their culture castrated.

Yippy for the People's Revolution.

[CountArach]

The state has many more ways to keep track of you and then kill you than it did 20, even 10, years ago. The Marxist ideal of the "People's Revolution" is well and truly dead, and was never a reality anyway. Every revolution has support either from within the local elite or from an outside power.

The People's Revolution is not a working-class one... I mean it in the sense of the cross-class Democratic movements that can be seen across the world. Like the one in Iran.

And whilst the government has more ways to control us, we have more ways to organise and get information around.

[Strike For The South]

Who's Allah?

[Vladimir]

He's the guy who runs the kebab shop down the street. His food is really good because so many people keep saying Allah [is a] great [place to eat].

[HoreTore]

Well they did after the first Gulf War, and they were slaughtered. "The People" also arose against the Chinese government and recently in Iran. Don't rely on some idealistic people's revolution.

This is mostly an interesting article to share. A lot of Americans want people to love us; this is a case it appears there is someone who does.

Yes... People rising up in Iran....

I sorta remember something like that back in '79, now how did that one turn out again...?

[Vladimir]

Yes... People rising up in Iran....

I sorta remember something like that back in '79, now how did that one turn out again...?

You mean you read something about something like that happening in '79, and it was more complex then you're portraying. Perhaps being located between two western-friendly governments will encourage a more peaceful change.

[HoreTore]

You mean you read something about something like that happening in '79, and it was more complex then you're portraying. Perhaps being located between two western-friendly governments will encourage a more peaceful change.

Uhm....

Where did I "portray" anything....?

[Fragony]

Leftie: Iraq's a faillure!

No leftie, Iraq is a succes

leftie: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO it isn't possible

In your heart you know it to be true

leftie: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO


needs Starwars music for effect

[Tristuskhan]

Leftie: Iraq's a faillure!

No leftie, Iraq is a succes

leftie: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO it isn't possible

In your heart you know it to be true

leftie: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO


needs Starwars music for effect

Got some extra drinks tonight Frag?

[Fragony]

Got some extra drinks tonight Frag?

must be. How could I get it wrong.

No -it isn't true- it isn't possible.

geez.

[||Lz3||]

you also missed the "search your feelings, son, you know that it's true..."

[Fragony]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[HoreTore]

What's the body count in Iraq at now? 300k? Yeah, sounds like a real success.... I kinda remember some words like "we will be welcomed as liberators", "it'll be cheap" and "we won't stay long, it'll be in and out".... Oh, and "Mission accomplished!", of course.

And just when did we start taking columnists opinions as the truth...?

[Husar]

Well they did after the first Gulf War, and they were slaughtered.

Wasn't that this episode where the USA told them to do it and promised to come and help them and then they were slaughtered because the USA didn't come?
I remember it was brought up again in the second gulf war when you guys wondered why some parts of the population weren't as helpful and happy as you had expected.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

What's the body count in Iraq at now? 300k?

Depends who you believe, doesn't it? How high was Mr. Hussein's, again?

[HoreTore]

Depends who you believe, doesn't it? How high was Mr. Hussein's, again?

I really don't think it's a good sign when we, as free democratic nations, start comparing ourselves with despotic and murderous dictators....

[Samurai Waki]

actually our body count is fairly low... Arabs/Iraqis killing Iraqis... not so much... but, I'm not so sure anybody could have lessened the blow, except perhaps themselves.

I think the idea that any nation can save people from themselves is a rather foolhardy notion, it may have happened just as easily without the prospect of American intervention.

EDIT: and in fact it did... several times.

[rotorgun]

An interesting article, but one man's opinion does not an argument make. I appreciate his rhetorical examples, and they do make one pause and reflect...do other Iraqis feel this way as well? We shall see.

Here is a link which may shed some light on the effectiveness of the Iraqi security forces we are about to turn over the country to:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

http://www.mywarvideo.com/play.php?vid=132

I sure hope that this isn't a widespread example.

PS: The language is a bit strong, so take care that the kiddies aren't around.

[KukriKhan]

Thank You America

Ya welcome.


No charge.

This time.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

I really don't think it's a good sign when we, as free democratic nations, start comparing ourselves with despotic and murderous dictators....

Yes, because we democratic nations are really responsible for the majority of those deaths.

Did you think desposing Hussein could have, practically, been bloodless?

[HoreTore]

Yes, because we democratic nations are really responsible for the majority of those deaths.

Did you think desposing Hussein could have, practically, been bloodless?

Bloodless, no, but there are plenty of revolutions/liberations in the world with relatively few casualties. Saddam was weak, he was in no position to cause a bloodbath, the concern is how the different factions in Iraq would behave towards each other without a foreign occupier.

[Centurion1]

Originally Posted by HoreTore View Post
What's the body count in Iraq at now? 300k?

I think its more around 3k my friend you added some extra zeros. Even with iraqi "casualties" the death toll is nowhere near 300k.

The question isnt WHAT they would do without a foreign oppressor, it is what they WILL do now that Obama is running away with his tail between his legs. Sighs why does america have no more persevering spirit...... (vietnam, korea.)

[miotas]

Well there's always the option of just keeping your nose out of other people's buisness in the first place...

[Centurion1]

However, sometimes intervention is a necessary evil. i may think we shouldn't have gone into Iraq, but i think once you start a job you shouldn't leave it half finished.

[Lemur]

I think its more around 3k my friend you added some extra zeros. Even with iraqi "casualties" the death toll is nowhere near 300k.

If you do any reading on the subject of casualties and Iraq, you'll find that the numbers are very hard to pin down (of Iraqi casualties, not Coalition).

Here's a site that tries to pull the Coalition numbers together. Their latest tally:

U.S.: 4,327
U.K.: 179
Other coalition: 139

U.S. wounded: 31,156

Estimate of Iraqi civilians: 45,611
Estimate of Iraqi Security Forces: 9,142

Note that these numbers do not take into account the ethnic cleansing that was occurring neighborhood-to-neighborhood for the last three years.

[Centurion1]

i understand the difficulty that is required in pinning down the casualties. However i believe that making a claim of 300k is rather absurd to claim.