Sasaki, why did you ignore my pm's? :(
Re: Capo di Tutti Capi III (IN PLAY)
Sasaki, why did you ignore my pm's? :(
Days since the Apocalypse began
"We are living in space-age times but there's too many of us thinking with stone-age minds" | How to spot a Humanist
"Men of Quality do not fear Equality." | "Belief doesn't change facts. Facts, if you are reasonable, should change your beliefs."
Re: Capo di Tutti Capi III (IN PLAY)
I got the worst combination. A wise-guy who shows up as criminal and questionable. I am surprised I lasted as long as I did, though funnily, it was the mafia that killed me, not the town.
Days since the Apocalypse began
"We are living in space-age times but there's too many of us thinking with stone-age minds" | How to spot a Humanist
"Men of Quality do not fear Equality." | "Belief doesn't change facts. Facts, if you are reasonable, should change your beliefs."
Re: Capo di Tutti Capi III (IN PLAY)
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy
Your Real Role is:
CIA Operative
Victory Conditions
You were in the CIA long before it was the CIA. Like most of the former OSS, you’re convinced that Hoover is a pompouswho will – despite all his bluster – not get the job done when it comes to stopping the commies. You’ve seen what they were doing in Greece and helped to fight them to a stop. You were part of the group saying the Chicomms WOULD intervene in Korea. Now some of the folks who’ve been interrogated have mentioned another name – Fatlington. Irregardless of the law prohibiting domestic activity by the CIA, you will NOT let the communists create a foothold in the USA. You’ve heard the mafia is making a play for Fatlington too, and you couldn’t care less. In fact, you cut a few deals with them in Greece to remove certain members of the opposition and you know they worked well with the OSS in Sicily. They may be criminals, but they’re not commies. Your victory hinges on your ability to defeat the communist 5th column – and to beat Hoover to the punch. See below:
Decisive Victory = The Communist cell is wiped out without participation by the FBI.
Clear Victory = The Communist cell is wiped out with FBI participation, but with strong participation by you and any “hirelings” you’ve acquired as well.
Close Victory = A majority of the Communist cell is destroyed.
Draw = A majority of the communist cell, or the entire cell, is destroyed by the FBI.
Close Defeat = Some of the Communist cell survives, but is not in control of anything.
Clear Defeat = The Communists take over Fatlington.
Crushing Defeat = The Communists take over Fatlington and you are killed.
Powers & Responsibilities
A. General:
2. You have heard that one of your old pals from Greece is in town working for the Mafiosi (you never met personally, but exchanged messages). He may be a valuable resource to you. Your old codeword for exchanging messages was “vendetta.”
OH WHY, OH WHY, ATPG, Did you not join the dark side? We could have ruled this town for old times sake.
We could have put someone, anybody really, on the throne.
A town win is not really a win in this game. I could claim a 1 - 0 in Capo I, but I won't because winning Capo de Tutti Capi is to help someone become the Capo de Tutti Capi, not claim win as a dead townie or any townie.
It is the duty of a townie to at least TRY to grab the big price. As a townie with a minor win, you will not be remembered. But as the Capo de Tutti Capi, your name will be written on the stars. Everyone remembers scottishranger, but forgets the names of those who "won" Capo I. In fact, I don't even remember how it ended.
Status Emeritus
Re: Capo di Tutti Capi III (IN PLAY)
Everyone will also remember the Serial Killer who killed a Director
Re: Capo di Tutti Capi III (IN PLAY)
If there weren't a significant number of people trying for a town victory, winning as a mafioso wouldn't be very special. IMO, all victories are equally worthy.
Re: Capo di Tutti Capi III (IN PLAY)
Who? I must have forgotten already ...Everyone will also remember the Serial Killer who killed a Director
Status Emeritus
Re: Capo di Tutti Capi III (IN PLAY)
A townie victory is as worthy a victory as any other victory
OH WHY, OH WHY, ATPG, Did you not join the dark side? We could have ruled this town for old times sake.
We could have put someone, anybody really, on the throne.
A town win is not really a win in this game. I could claim a 1 - 0 in Capo I, but I won't because winning Capo de Tutti Capi is to help someone become the Capo de Tutti Capi, not claim win as a dead townie or any townie.
It is the duty of a townie to at least TRY to grab the big price. As a townie with a minor win, you will not be remembered. But as the Capo de Tutti Capi, your name will be written on the stars. Everyone remembers scottishranger, but forgets the names of those who "won" Capo I. In fact, I don't even remember how it ended.
Back to the burning flames of the inferno with you, you dead scumbag
Andres is our Lord and Master and could strike us down with thunderbolts or beer cans at any time. ~Askthepizzaguy
Ja mata, TosaInu
Re: Capo di Tutti Capi III (IN PLAY)
You have the pro-town roles like Detectives and FBI who will go for the townie win. Then you have the townie incorruptibles, which apparently can't change.
The rest are potential Dons and henchmen. The name of the game is Capo de Tutti Capi - which should indicate that to become one is really winning the jackpot.
In other Mafia games - townie is a townie and wants a townie win.
Capo de tutti Capi indicates that it is a war amongst Mafia - townies are only side kicks. Townies are really mafia in the rough - they just haven't realised it yet.
Status Emeritus
Re: Capo di Tutti Capi III (IN PLAY)
The dark side is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural. Besides, we did rule this town. Or don't you remember?
And that's what really happened, your honor.... to the best of my recollection.Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
I wasn't a townie, though.We could have put someone, anybody really, on the throne.
A town win is not really a win in this game. I could claim a 1 - 0 in Capo I, but I won't because winning Capo de Tutti Capi is to help someone become the Capo de Tutti Capi, not claim win as a dead townie or any townie.You mustn't forget that my mission was NEVER to become the Capo de Tutti Capi.
With the total annihilation of the communist cell, I did grab the big prize...It is the duty of a townie to at least TRY to grab the big price.That was my sole motivation, remember? I wasn't a townie. Perhaps that is why I was among the least corruptible. I couldn't become mafia, so there was never any incentive for me to help a mafia family. I couldn't become a Made, and advance to being Don Pizzaguy. Being the Director of the committee of vigilance, or being protected at all times by my own personal bodyguards, or having a "Death Squad" orchestrating hits on the town's enemies, having goons in uniforms spying on the mafia and investigating their actions, forming what was basically the ruling political party in town with a platform of total annihilation of all mafia... why on earth would I want to give up on all that just to become a lowly Capo? The town made me Caesar.
I helped the townies because I knew... they would help destroy the communist cell, or at least keep me protected both from the lynch and from murder. That was something that no mafia could ever offer me... being caught associating with scum is the quickest path to a lynching. Helping one family over another simply makes them your enemy. The mafia are weak, they eat each other like a pack of cannibals.
Basically, Sigurd, you made me an offer I had to refuse.
I had to make the mafia my enemy to be protected from the lynch, and complete my mission. And in order to ensure our security and continuing stability, the town would also have to be reorganized into the First Galactic Empire, for a safe... and secure... society!
I beg to differ... we saw the total annihilation of what, 8 Mades, 5 dons, 5 lucas, 3 affiliated wiseguys, 2 serial killers, and a mafia commission representative in a pear tree, with a few of the doctors, vigilantes, and investigators still alive to talk about it.As a townie with a minor win, you will not be remembered.
I want to share something with you...
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
It seems to me that our performance this game will be fondly remembered by all who enjoyed the ride. Because the town won, they all got to share in this great victory, and they all contributed to the final conclusion. I'd say this game is easily a shoe-in for the Best Game of 2009, based on excellent hosting, storytelling, and an epic amount of action, controversy, betrayal, and drama.
Personally, I found yours and my sub-plot to be among the most fascinating of all... a Mafia representative capable of working with all the 5 families, with a power I desperately needed, 4 investigations per night. I was your partner, with only one selfish mission on his mind... and from our initial connection by the codeword "vendetta", things started to snowball, and power was concentrated around us. And at the same time, we had different objectives... and though you wanted me to go mafia, I refused to help them, because I considered them dangerous and untrustworthy. While I believed we were together on that, you kept trying to get me killed, and in the end, you had to betray me. If not for the grace of.... well, a psychopath devoted to God... you may have succeeded. We ended up using one another for our respective aims. You and Split were among my closest and most trusted allies... I really did feel like Julius Caesar on the ides of March. I couldn't think of a more fascinating side story than how untrustworthy my closest allies were, and yet how valuable they still were as allies. We seriously could not have come this far without your abilities, or Split covering my back and voting with me most of the game.
I understand the idea of keeping your friends close and your enemies closer, but... wow.
It is... too late for me, my friend. Once you walk the path of the town side, forever will it dominate your destiny.But as the Capo de Tutti Capi, your name will be written on the stars. Everyone remembers scottishranger, but forgets the names of those who "won" Capo I. In fact, I don't even remember how it ended.
#Winstontoostrong
#Montytoostronger
Re: Capo di Tutti Capi III (Concluded)
YLC well have his name go down in glory.....for killing a Director
Personally, I think ATPG would have been the only one in reach for a Mafia victory of what you seem to have wanted...but he was under close observation by almost everyone. If you hadn't died, maybe he would have joined you....but the Mafia were pretty hurt by that point..
Re: Capo di Tutti Capi III (Concluded)
No... there was no real reason to do so. Once the communists were gone, I had nothing more to worry about. And once I got to that point, why would I betray the very people that helped lynch three of them? Backstabbing my friends would have been utterly pointless. The town stuck by me, and I owed them the same. The only time I ever considered betraying the town was after I lost the Directorship and I felt vulnerable again... if I had died with the mission incomplete, my own personal victory would have been in jeopardy. If the mafia had approached me with an offer to annihilate the communists and keep me as director forever... I don't know. I would have felt really bad. I might have thought about that but actually doing it would have been tough. I also have to think of future games... should I ever wish to forge a pro-town network again, could I really afford to be known as the guy who betrayed about 50 townies?
#Winstontoostrong
#Montytoostronger
Re: Capo di Tutti Capi III (IN PLAY)
Bah, this just sounds like remorse by a mafioso after a total pwnage of the mafia in this game. Sigurd, you personally made an incredible performance as far as I can tell, but you've got to admit that the mafia as a whole played pretty poorly in Capo III. Point fingers all you want at ATPG, but the fact remains that him allying with the mafia was pretty much your only hope of success because the families otherwise did not make a good showing. If your victory hangs on the allegiance of a neutral role, then your strategy is flawed.
Re: Capo di Tutti Capi III (IN PLAY)
ATPG and the town's victory hung on my neutral side - was it flawed? Or just blind luck? We put Sigurd in a position where he was night kill immune, and where thanks to his abilities, he had put him above everyone else. The town would have jumped on each other like rapid wolves - you already had several people in line.
I did one good thing this entire game, give me some credit
Re: Capo di Tutti Capi III (IN PLAY)
Many people contributed to the town's victory in this game. Remove any one of them, and things might have turned out very differently. Some major contributors, such as Kommodus and johnhughthom, died very early on and were largely forgotten by the end, but the town could never have won without them. It was a team effort, and all who contributed can rightly be proud of their achievement.ATPG and the town's victory hung on my neutral side - was it flawed? Or just blind luck? We put Sigurd in a position where he was night kill immune, and where thanks to his abilities, he had put him above everyone else. The town would have jumped on each other like rapid wolves - you already had several people in line.
I did one good thing this entire game, give me some credit
Re: Capo di Tutti Capi III (IN PLAY)
I know, and I acknowledge that - I just felt left out. No one needed me, and I was simply neutralized instead of utilized.
Re: Capo di Tutti Capi III (IN PLAY)
That is not wholly true. :D
BLARGH!
Re: Capo di Tutti Capi III (IN PLAY)
I totally agree with TinCow....The Mafia had the townies in the palm of there hands, if only they branched out and toke more risks....it seems like they just sat there and gathered dust and hardly recuited anyone...
The Pro-town group I was in, was full of paranoia....I even didn't trust my partner Travoix for a whileThat night, we were having this unspoken air of "kill ATPG" but thankfully none of us sent in orders to "kill ATPG"
)
There was also the CIA vs. FBI thing, the communists and SK's.....I can't find any real reason; why the Mafia was at a disadvantage...
Re: Capo di Tutti Capi III (IN PLAY)
Taking out a Don is amazing, but taking out the Wolf who had SO successfully fooled people into believing he was pro-town... YLC, I can't congratulate you enough. You certainly got credit from me.I did one good thing this entire game, give me some credit
I wholeheartedly agree. Several names were credited more than necessary and some were not credited enough. I had to personally congratulate and thank many of the star players and give them the headlines they deserved. I tried to make sure I personally didn't forget that it was a team effort. A lot of people congratulated me, but what about the doctors? They kicked butt. How about the vigilantes? They did too. The investigators? Awesome. What about the people that simply showed up to vote and discuss, and offer their analysis? All deserving of kudos.
As a whole, perhaps they were lacking in unity. As far as they were concerned, as long as it was someone else dying, it wasn't a big deal. That's kind of how I think when I am mafia... just stay alive, just stay alive. And some families got hit with unnecessary leaks of information. I think that most of them played a very good game. There was a very concerted effort to take down the protection rings around the key roles, a lot of attempts to discredit our work, a lot of rumors spread to divide us, and they managed to get infiltrators very deeply into all levels of the organization. In spite of some early setbacks, they managed to recruit a fair number of people, and even got assistance from townies such as Sasaki. Some of them managed to dodge their fate for quite a while... Crazed Rabbit, Lord Winter, Haudegen... they kept refusing to go down quietly.
I believe that one main flaw is simply that there was a lack of trust between the families and the commissioner, between the families themselves, and a willingness to let the town come for their rivals; a rival Don, a rival Luca, a rival Made. That is perhaps the flaw of their role itself, not of their abilities as players. If their objective is to become the last family standing, it would seem to be easier to accomplish this by allowing the town to destroy their rivals. And the soldiers of the mafia weren't exactly aware of who else was mafia... the second main flaw was their lack of information.
Remember back to just before I accused CountArach; I spoke to you White_Eyes about the allure of being mafia. There is strength in unity; in knowing who your partners are, who your friends are. Usually, and in most games, the town is divided, and lacking in information.
If the various detectives, doctors, and vigilantes had no means of uniting and sharing information, coordinating, and keeping one another from harm during the lynch phase, then the town would have gotten owned by all the families. The only way to win is if the mafia ended up killing off rival Lucas and Dons during the night phase purely by luck. And even then, with no clear direction, townies would have become mades and joined families to increase their odds of winning. Unity is the main reason why the town survived. We rarely lynched one another, we mostly vigilante killed the mafia, and we protected each other. That unity is why the mafia had trouble. If you consider that, and you consider how few of us survived, and how close Sigurd and the others came to being the endgame majority... you realize that this was not a landslide, the fate of the town was always in question, and it was really by luck (YLC) and by the skin of our teeth that we made it.
Considering what the mafia were up against, I consider their performance extraordinary, in fact. The FactionHeir and Discovery1 and DJGingivitis events were all "gimmies" for the town that shouldn't have happened. And if they didn't, we might not be standing here.
#Winstontoostrong
#Montytoostronger
Re: Capo di Tutti Capi III (IN PLAY)
The problem with recruiting people was that ATPG has in contact with EVERYBODY. There was significant risk in approaching anyone. Additionally, most of the families were gutted early on making activities difficult. For example, I lost my Luca practically at the start of the game thanks to ATPG. How ATPG survived the "two man kill" thing and GH didn't still has my mind blown. That was a mighty good evasive maneuver from ATPG.
Re: Capo di Tutti Capi III (Concluded)
Yes... all well and good. But I proposed the idea of putting Diana on the Capo de Tutti seat at a time where you had no obligations to the town.
I said I would gladly help you remove all the commies for your personal victory. AND it read in your PM that I was working with the MAFIA.
You knew all along (should have) that I was the spec.rep of the Mafia Commission. I realized that you would never turn at a later time in the game and made you "forget", I thought (apparently wrongly), Jedi style that I had anything to do with the mafia.
Don't get me wrong - Capo de Tutti Capi is a balanced game - where everyone should have equal oportunity to reach their win condition. But it is the toughest game to be Mafia in. Maybe it is equally tough to be FBI or a Detective too.
The ideal for a Mafia is to be the informed minority - but in this game everyone is an informed party or maybe equally uninformed. The only chance the Mafia has is either - to join ranks with the other families and coordinate their efforts. - or to go pro-town until a late stage.
Maybe there are other ways to win this game?
Status Emeritus
Re: Capo di Tutti Capi III (IN PLAY)
Given the setup of the game, if the townies are actually townies they should win every time, with ease. It's 60vs3vs3vs3vs3vs3. The weird sort of moralizing by pizza and his group was effective at keeping most townies in line. As far as I can remember, I was the only townie to go mafia, and there weren't more than a couple wise guys. In comparison I think at least 8 mafia got straight up ratted out. I agree with sigurd; voting for who you are told and doing what you are told to at night is never going to be remotely as impressive as becoming capo.
If there were one rule to change, I think that the dons should have the ability to protect. The town should have to find the dons by virtue of the acting suspicious, right now it is very easy imo...if I was going to go townie this game I would have setup attack/defend groups instead of protecting a bunch of power roles like pizza did. Have 5 people attack and 4 people defend, have one of the fbi agents or detectives investigate the people who aren't in the groups. Next night swap them around. When you have the don list narrowed down, vig and lynch everyone on it.
This is why I didn't understand everyone trying to get pizza lynched, it could have been way worse.
This game was close, but shouldn't have been. I suggest that next game, the dons are indistinguishable from townies when it comes to abilities/investigation results. Can gain doctor abilities, can gain wise guy abilities, show up guilty in following rounds after one kill etc. In capo I, I don't think the town knew the ins and outs of how the mafia roles differed, now that they do it is easy to exploit. I might even go townie if it was actually a challenge ;)
But yeah, I think if that rule is changed, and the townies realize that cooperating too much screws them over for next game, then there will be less cohesion in the town, more arguing in the thread instead of detective results being posted, and the mafia will actually try and take out the other mafia families.
-edit-
I don't mean to diminish your guys sense of accomplishment, just explaining why I wouldn't find it appealing, and suggesting a rule change.
Last edited by Sasaki Kojiro; 09-28-2009 at 15:58.
Re: Capo di Tutti Capi III (IN PLAY)
From my perspective, the poor performance by the mafia is what kept a lot of townies in-line. By the time I got promoted to wiseguy, so many mafioso had gone down and the town group looked so strong, that it was a large disincentive to switch sides. Better early-game performances by the mafia families likely would have netted more recruits later in the game.
IMO, Capo might actually benefit from having fewer families. Instead of 5 families with 3 members each, why not 3 families with 5 members each? I think that would help with their staying power, strategy, and ability to recruit.
Re: Capo di Tutti Capi III (Concluded)
As a homage to Seamus - the Capo games have been a thriller. It is a very tough game to play, and that is what makes it so exiting. And when it is finished, you are winded as if you have been on a long run.
I have had to catch up at work during nights and weekends. And this is one of those few games that really gets your emotions going - from high to low and back up again.
It was worst when YLC whacked me - I felt like screaming at the top of my voice. I think I managed to keep calm though. The banter afterwards was just fun ... and I was a bit relieved of the pressure to survive another day... I doubt I could have scrapped together a new mafia team with the remainder of the players - all though TinCow seemed promising. I don't know - but If ATPG had died would the town have looked to me for guidance?
Status Emeritus
Re: Capo di Tutti Capi III (Concluded)
Wasn't possible, I was a doctor at that point. I was presented with that option on N13, by which time there were very few mafioso left. Combined with my desire to help Andres share in the victory, my decision was easy. I became a wiseguy after N9, but by about N11 things were looking so bad for the mafia, that I doubt I would have flipped even if someone had approached me with a good plan.
Re: Capo di Tutti Capi III (Concluded)
Just an interesting trivia :
I received 294 PMs which is directly linked to the Capo III play and I sent 212 PMs directly linked to the Capo III play.
If you count the meager 75 or so in game posts I came close to 287 messages, which is surely a new personal record.
Ok... Let the more verbose players now start their pawnage with their stats.
Status Emeritus
Re: Capo di Tutti Capi III (Concluded)
You know, the odd thing is, because I was "protecting your identity" and keeping you away from the spotlight most of the game, the townies didn't seem to have the same sort of trust and rapport with you as they did with me. In fact, I had to keep re-assuring people that I was "following up" on you. I had to keep telling people that "Sigurd's time will come..." or "after we take care of so-and-so, we get Sigurd." Early FBI results on you were questionable, and early detective results on you were criminal. I had to basically keep vouching for you. There were a few townies who called you out for being lurky, such as Andres. I kept stepping in to defend your name.
By the very end, even after what we had done together, even my close allies like Tratorix and company were still not sure about me. After recommending you to the Director's spot and protecting you all game, I am not sure that blind trust would have been forthcoming. But, I leave that up to the townies themselves to decide.
I emptied my inbox 6 times and filled it a 7th for Capo, and my mailbox is size 400. Now, I save a copy of all the PMs I sent, and I sent about as many as I received, or more. I estimate I sent about 200 messages per emptying, so about 1,200 private messages to 1,400 private messages, plus the approximately 500 posts during the game itself. 95% of my inbox traffic was Capo related.I received 294 PMs which is directly linked to the Capo III play and I sent 212 PMs directly linked to the Capo III play.
If you count the meager 75 or so in game posts I came close to 287 messages, which is surely a new personal record.
Ok... Let the more verbose players now start their pawnage with their stats.
Last edited by Askthepizzaguy; 09-28-2009 at 16:44.
#Winstontoostrong
#Montytoostronger
Re: Capo di Tutti Capi III (IN PLAY)
So who did you leak your info to, and why? It seems obvious most people knew about your triggers and steered clear.ATPG and the town's victory hung on my neutral side - was it flawed? Or just blind luck? We put Sigurd in a position where he was night kill immune, and where thanks to his abilities, he had put him above everyone else. The town would have jumped on each other like rapid wolves - you already had several people in line.
I did one good thing this entire game, give me some credit
This is true. All victories are not equal. Count this as a victory if you wish, townies, but don't think of it as the same sort of victory scottishranger enjoyed last game. To win as a townie in Capo means winning against five outnumbered groups of three people each who don't start out in contact with each other. It means utilizing with modest competence the game mechanics. It means winning while vastly outnumbering your enemy and taking their traditional advantage away; information.You have the pro-town roles like Detectives and FBI who will go for the townie win. Then you have the townie incorruptibles, which apparently can't change.
The rest are potential Dons and henchmen. The name of the game is Capo de Tutti Capi - which should indicate that to become one is really winning the jackpot.
In other Mafia games - townie is a townie and wants a townie win.
Capo de tutti Capi indicates that it is a war amongst Mafia - townies are only side kicks. Townies are really mafia in the rough - they just haven't realised it yet.
To win as mafia means to kill the majority of people in the game, to trick and deceive your way to victory. It is much more glorious.
Every neutral role went out of their ways to kill mafia this game. Did the CIA and FBI concentrate on commies? Noooooooooo, they went for the mafia. ATPG says the town kept him safe to hunt commies, but he knew who the last one was for a long time and could have killed him.
In addition, the number five serial killer offed a don, but no important townie roles. The religious serial killer was neutralized early (And helped by GH's editing
I would second this. I've been planning on doing this in my upcoming game.This game was close, but shouldn't have been. I suggest that next game, the dons are indistinguishable from townies when it comes to abilities/investigation results. Can gain doctor abilities, can gain wise guy abilities, show up guilty in following rounds after one kill etc. In capo I, I don't think the town knew the ins and outs of how the mafia roles differed, now that they do it is easy to exploit. I might even go townie if it was actually a challenge ;)
I sent PMs to over 450 people during the game, and received as many. Plus I came out third in the list of posts in the thread. That beats my record by a big margin.I received 294 PMs which is directly linked to the Capo III play and I sent 212 PMs directly linked to the Capo III play.
If you count the meager 75 or so in game posts I came close to 287 messages, which is surely a new personal record.
Ok... Let the more verbose players now start their pawnage with their stats.
CR
Ja Mata, Tosa.
The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter – all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement! - William Pitt the Elder
Re: Capo di Tutti Capi III (IN PLAY)
Yeah, this is very true and certainly put the mafia at a disadvantage. However, there were a few people who seized control of town groups very early on and put themselves into a position as the town spokesman/organizer. Most significantly, this included Reenk and ATPG, both of whom turned out to be town-oriented. I think one of the mafia flaws was in failing to eliminate these people. If you take out the organizers, information will be lost, organization will deteriorate, otherwise loyal members will turn on each other, and wavering wiseguys can go mafioso far more easily. We saw that happen in Capo II when JimBob disappeared.Every neutral role went out of their ways to kill mafia this game. Did the CIA and FBI concentrate on commies? Noooooooooo, they went for the mafia. ATPG says the town kept him safe to hunt commies, but he knew who the last one was for a long time and could have killed him.
In addition, the number five serial killer offed a don, but no important townie roles. The religious serial killer was neutralized early (And helped by GH's editing
If the families felt like they couldn't kill Reenk and ATPG at night, they should have worked harder to get them lynched. Both were vulnerable to being discredited and lynched in the first half of the game, especially ATPG. A strong push by a few of the families could have removed him as a threat, likely changing the momentum of the game. I was honestly astonished at how little efforts the mafia made to get rid of ATPG. It should have been clear after a while that he was not helping you guys, but he was only attacked once the entire game and there was no serious attempts to lynch him after the first few days had passed.
Re: Capo di Tutti Capi III (IN PLAY)
The dead are allowed to pm in capo.
Re: Capo di Tutti Capi III (IN PLAY)
Which makes discrediting them via the lynch much more important. The time delay on autopsy results is long enough that the damage on the organization will already be done by the time they regain their credibility several turns later.
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