1.5 Diplomacy: even more broken than in 1.3...

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I miss RTW and M2TW diplomacy.

Why? Diplomacy there is useless unless you play Europa Barbarorum with Force Diplomacy.

[A1_Unit]

At least I could get the AI to come down a few gold pieces!

[Fisherking]

HUH!

So you get a new car, your not quite satisfied with and you are thinking you want the ox cart back?

[A1_Unit]

Why do you like ETW diplomacy so much? It needs to be fixed - there are countless problems that need solving: Minors don't accept anything unless they get 75000+ with it, Majors think you want the deal that's crazy (say no to region swapping!), and the eatern diplomats talk about haggling - like you can do any of that!

[peacemaker]

I haggle all the time to get trade agreements. You just can't haggle much. You ask for 500, they ask for a thousand, you ask for 800, and it's a deal. That's how it usually goes for me.


M2 and RTW diplomacy was next to impossible-You had to make a diplomat walk halfway around the world to even talk to most people. Now it's just a click of a button

I get minors to do anything for 10,000 and a few techs usually. Majors are stubborn, but if they want something they'll usually offer something that I'm willing to take.

[A1_Unit]

You are getting me wrong: I don't want diplomats, I want the flexible dealings of RTW and M2TW.

[NimitsTexan]

Dealings between player and computer seem allright; a human player can get in and out of wars with relative ease.

It's the dealings between CPU controlled powers that still bug me. Namely, the fact that Allies will not follow your lead, and the AI nations still mostly do not offer/accept peace among themselves. So, for example, if I as Great Britain join Austria or Portugal in a war against a continental power, then proceed to throughouly defeat said continental power and secure an advantagesou peace, those two original powers will keep on fighting ad infintium, till one is desroyed. It seems no matter what, Prussia, Austria, and France-Spain end up in a 50 year three way fight till one or more of them is destroyed. The AI seems to insist on fighting its wars to anihiliation, rather than for specific conquest objectives, and does not seem to recognize the value of peace for building up.

[Fisherking]

For me all those things were fixed in the last two patches.

Maybe a little too well in some cases. I mean the protectorates thing. Some of the Minors will have three or four protectorates. But that is not a killer.

They do make peace among them selves and even alliances. The Barbary States start making peace offers on turn one and usually get down to just a few enemies.

I have not watched it every turn but I do see it happening. In my 1.5 campaign Spain and the UP even made peace at some point.

Each campaign is different and difficulty settings effect more than just you but that part is working now from what I have seen.

I usually don’t try to pull in too many allies in to my wars though. When I do they usually join but it can be more problems than having them in the war is worth. Sometimes they fight and sometimes they don’t do much.

Austria keeps following me around with an army like a puppy dog and you never no if it is to help or find a weak spot. They did invade the region next to mine (by sea) and take out Morocco who I brought them into war against.

[A1_Unit]

So you mean if I put my difficulty off H/H I'll have better diplomacy?

[Fisherking]

So you mean if I put my difficulty off H/H I'll have better diplomacy?

Some what better diplomacy...

The difficulty settings only seem to make the AI more aggressive and more stubborn. They may also increase the amount of money the AI gets but I am not sure about that.

Battle difficulties give combat bonuses.

[Seyavash]

Money is great for getting trade agreements but for alliances I have found that offering techs sometimes works better. I tend to stay away from giving military/naval ones except to small nations I am trying to build up. Industrial ones are preferable to me since their lands will hopefully be richer when I take them.

I play on normal so I don't how diplomacy works on the harder difficulties but on normal I can usually come up with an agreement of some sort. It just takes some haggling and patience. If you can't get anywhere now, try a couple of turns later. I found this much much harder to do in 1.3. It takes work sometimes but that seems right to me.

[Slaists]

Some what better diplomacy...

The difficulty settings only seem to make the AI more aggressive and more stubborn. They may also increase the amount of money the AI gets but I am not sure about that.

Battle difficulties give combat bonuses.

There used to be a list of difficulty level modifiers compiled by Alpaca on twcenter.net, but I have not seen an updated version lately.

The AI definitely gets cash bonuses on harder difficulties; their building costs are lower + they get considerable 'discount' on research costs; also, AI's move points get beefed up quite a bit on higher difficulties.

[A1_Unit]

And the ability to sometimes walk through my army's interception zone. :P

[Fisherking]

There used to be a list of difficulty level modifiers compiled by Alpaca on twcenter.net, but I have not seen an updated version lately.

The AI definitely gets cash bonuses on harder difficulties; their building costs are lower + they get considerable 'discount' on research costs; also, AI's move points get beefed up quite a bit on higher difficulties.

Humm....

Alpaca is both here and at TWC but maybe it is only posted there.

As to the values, as you point out they have not been updated recently.

I know that all research has been slowed. The AI’s may be quicker than the players still I would guess.

If you know where to find that post of the differences I would like to read it.

[Slaists]

Humm....

Alpaca is both here and at TWC but maybe it is only posted there.

As to the values, as you point out they have not been updated recently.

I know that all research has been slowed. The AI’s may be quicker than the players still I would guess.

If you know where to find that post of the differences I would like to read it.

Here you go: Alpaca's original post on campaign difficulty modifiers in 1.2.

[Fisherking]

Thanks Slaists!

I see you already asked the obvious question!

Thanks again.

[DisruptorX]

You are getting me worng: I don't want diplomats, I want the flexible dealings of RTW and M2TW.

Did you play the same games I did? Flexible as in factions that border you declare war no matter what in MTW2? Flexible as in worthless outside of trade agreements as in RTW?

Diplomacy was pretty darn good in release in ETW. I don't know what the devs are thinking, but I sure wish there was some way to reset the game back to the original version. You know, when trading back a capitol was a surefire way to get peace, kind of like in a real war.

[A1_Unit]

Did you play the same games I did? Flexible as in factions that border you declare war no matter what in MTW2? Flexible as in worthless outside of trade agreements as in RTW?

Diplomacy was pretty darn good in release in ETW. I don't know what the devs are thinking, but I sure wish there was some way to reset the game back to the original version. You know, when trading back a capitol was a surefire way to get peace, kind of like in a real war.

No we didn't play the same games because I never had any problem with M2TW diplomacy or RTW diplomacy.

I didn't buy ETW at its initial release but I'll take your word for it that the diplomacy was working.

Also, I've been modding my startpos.esf for a mod and I've found that removing regions from a faction's victory conditions will stop suicidal assaults against that region.

[DisruptorX]

No we didn't play the same games because I never had any problem with M2TW diplomacy or RTW diplomacy.

I didn't buy ETW at its initial release but I'll take your word for it that the diplomacy was working.

Also, I've been modding my startpos.esf for a mod and I've found that removing regions from a faction's victory conditions will stop suicidal assaults against that region.

I wouldn't say I had any problem with them per se. Because there really wasn't anything to them. You could count on fighting everyone in a big brawl. Sometimes alliances worked, but it was very rare.

Diplomacy was working in the original release of ETW, but as many on this site have commented elsewhere, it was very powerful. You could get what you wanted without much trouble. Obviously, if you wanted a challenge, the diplomacy system was somewhat lacking, and I sympathize with that opinion. I still preferred the easy and working diplomacy system to the broken patched one, though.

[NimitsTexan]

I wouldn't say I had any problem with them per se. Because there really wasn't anything to them. You could count on fighting everyone in a big brawl. Sometimes alliances worked, but it was very rare.

Diplomacy was working in the original release of ETW, but as many on this site have commented elsewhere, it was very powerful. You could get what you wanted without much trouble. Obviously, if you wanted a challenge, the diplomacy system was somewhat lacking, and I sympathize with that opinion. I still preferred the easy and working diplomacy system to the broken patched one, though.

There were some problems with original diplomacy . . . for one, the Trading Card attitude of the AI toward provinces . . . Thirteen Colonies, for example, continually trading Boston to France for Martinique.

[Fisherking]

What the AI seems to know is that making some of those silly trades will prevent a war down the line.

But the AI has all the attitudes of a chiseling skinflint and a shyster.

I won’t cover some of the silly land deals offered but Prussia kept asking for 20 years military access and 1300 cash for 10 year military access. They thought up the offer by the way. I had no need of military access to their regions.

And yes they finally went to war over it...

[NimitsTexan]

Sometimes the AI seems smart enough to know when it needs military access to get to an enemy. As Britain had to go reconquer Hannover from Sweden. Austria was at war with UP, and the only way to them was through Hannover, so they kept demanding military access from me until finally DoWing over it.

[Fisherking]

granting access is not near as dangerous as in previous TWs.

It may even give you more safety as I have never been betrayed by someone having access past 1.1.