Shooting At Ft.Hood

[Fragony]

@Hussy

Things aren't always what they seem, we had a Canadian expat here, nice guy everybody liked him. But he completely lost it one day, thinking we were all out for him. It's a Dutch national sport to be as obnoxious as you can possibly get we don't see anything behind it but he did. Left, never saw him again.

[Kadagar_AV]

Nevermind that this terrorist was some psychological nutcase... Cause we all know that only US terrorists are psychological nutcases, foreign terrorists are part of a world-wide network of agents much resembling the COBRA from the G.I. Joe cartoon...

[Husar]

Nevermind that this terrorist was some psychological nutcase... Cause we all know that only US terrorists are psychological nutcases, foreign terrorists are part of a world-wide network of agents much resembling the COBRA from the G.I. Joe cartoon...

That's a good point actually but you have to see that both are effects of their religion of evility.

[Ser Clegane]

I would highly appreciate if this thread would not turn into a troll-fest.

To that end the last couple of posts have not been very helpful.

No general religion/race bashing

No flame-baiting

Thanks

[Husar]

Sorry if you mean me, I wrote "evility", which AFAIK, does not exist, to indicate that I wasn't very serious, I think my real point, that a lot of people blame Islam everytime an individual or a group associated with Islam kills someone is quite obvious though.
My argument here was/is that Islam is probably not the only "thing" to blame in this case.

I should remember to mark my sarcasm better, so your words are noted.

[Aemilius Paulus]

Bleah, after reading entire ten pages of the debate, I have nothing to add, and nor does anyone else for that matter, IMHO. However, as usual, The Onion comes out on the top with its succinct yet down-to-the-point article: American Muslims To Fort Hood Shooter: 'Thanks A Lot, *******'(WARNING: since it is the Onion, you can expect some profanity) (I hope that passes your laws for profanity, Banquo, I already had to edit the title)

[Sasaki Kojiro]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/10/op...ooks.html?_r=1

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

November 10, 2009
Op-Ed Columnist
The Rush to Therapy
By DAVID BROOKS

We’re all born late. We’re born into history that is well under way. We’re born into cultures, nations and languages that we didn’t choose. On top of that, we’re born with certain brain chemicals and genetic predispositions that we can’t control. We’re thrust into social conditions that we detest. Often, we react in ways we regret even while we’re doing them.

But unlike the other animals, people do have a drive to seek coherence and meaning. We have a need to tell ourselves stories that explain it all. We use these stories to supply the metaphysics, without which life seems pointless and empty.

Among all the things we don’t control, we do have some control over our stories. We do have a conscious say in selecting the narrative we will use to make sense of the world. Individual responsibility is contained in the act of selecting and constantly revising the master narrative we tell about ourselves.

The stories we select help us, in turn, to interpret the world. They guide us to pay attention to certain things and ignore other things. They lead us to see certain things as sacred and other things as disgusting. They are the frameworks that shape our desires and goals. So while story selection may seem vague and intellectual, it’s actually very powerful. The most important power we have is the power to help select the lens through which we see reality.

Most people select stories that lead toward cooperation and goodness. But over the past few decades a malevolent narrative has emerged.

That narrative has emerged on the fringes of the Muslim world. It is a narrative that sees human history as a war between Islam on the one side and Christianity and Judaism on the other. This narrative causes its adherents to shrink their circle of concern. They don’t see others as fully human. They come to believe others can be blamelessly murdered and that, in fact, it is admirable to do so.

This narrative is embraced by a small minority. But it has caused incredible amounts of suffering within the Muslim world, in Israel, in the U.S. and elsewhere. With their suicide bombings and terrorist acts, adherents to this narrative have made themselves central to global politics. They are the ones who go into crowded rooms, shout “Allahu akbar,” or “God is great,” and then start murdering.

When Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan did that in Fort Hood, Tex., last week, many Americans had an understandable and, in some ways, admirable reaction. They didn’t want the horror to become a pretext for anti-Muslim bigotry.

So immediately the coverage took on a certain cast. The possibility of Islamic extremism was immediately played down. This was an isolated personal breakdown, not an ideological assault, many people emphasized.

Major Hasan was portrayed as a disturbed individual who was under a lot of stress. We learned about pre-traumatic stress syndrome, and secondary stress disorder, which one gets from hearing about other people’s stress. We heard the theory (unlikely in retrospect) that Hasan was so traumatized by the thought of going into a combat zone that he decided to take a gun and create one of his own.

A shroud of political correctness settled over the conversation. Hasan was portrayed as a victim of society, a poor soul who was pushed over the edge by prejudice and unhappiness.

There was a national rush to therapy. Hasan was a loner who had trouble finding a wife and socializing with his neighbors.

This response was understandable. It’s important to tamp down vengeful hatreds in moments of passion. But it was also patronizing. Public commentators assumed the air of kindergarten teachers who had to protect their children from thinking certain impermissible and intolerant thoughts. If public commentary wasn’t carefully policed, the assumption seemed to be, then the great mass of unwashed yahoos in Middle America would go off on a racist rampage.

Worse, it absolved Hasan — before the real evidence was in — of his responsibility. He didn’t have the choice to be lonely or unhappy. But he did have a choice over what story to build out of those circumstances. And evidence is now mounting to suggest he chose the extremist War on Islam narrative that so often leads to murderous results.

The conversation in the first few days after the massacre was well intentioned, but it suggested a willful flight from reality. It ignored the fact that the war narrative of the struggle against Islam is the central feature of American foreign policy. It ignored the fact that this narrative can be embraced by a self-radicalizing individual in the U.S. as much as by groups in Tehran, Gaza or Kandahar.

It denied, before the evidence was in, the possibility of evil. It sought to reduce a heinous act to social maladjustment. It wasn’t the reaction of a morally or politically serious nation.

A good article I think.

[Husar]

But he did have a choice over what story to build out of those circumstances. And evidence is now mounting to suggest he chose the extremist War on Islam narrative that so often leads to murderous results.

Yeah, tough luck, let's just hope all the other people we harass make the good choice and either accept their inferiority or just kill themselves.

[Vuk]

Yeah, tough luck, let's just hope all the other people we harass make the good choice and either accept their inferiority or just kill themselves.

lmao, most kids take more heat in Highschool! You know, he could have just done what normal people do when they get harrassed, and said "Yeah, they are *******, but I am not gonna sink to their level. I will just ignore them". You know, I have recieved a LOT of harrasment myself for the type of person I am (esp in college), as did my family. You know what you do? You ignore them. Supposing that Hassan really got harrasment, that is what he should have done. He was not a dumby. He knows enough to know that murder and terrorism is not right. He knows enough to ignore idiots. He was a murderer and a terrorist.

[Strike For The South]

lmao, most kids take more heat in Highschool! You know, he could have just done what normal people do when they get harrassed, and said "Yeah, they are *******, but I am not gonna sink to their level. I will just ignore them". You know, I have recieved a LOT of harrasment myself for the type of person I am (esp in college), as did my family. You know what you do? You ignore them. Supposing that Hassan really got harrasment, that is what he should have done. He was not a dumby. He knows enough to know that murder and terrorism is not right. He knows enough to ignore idiots. He was a murderer and a terrorist.

And high school children have some of the highest rates of sucide, drug abuse, and depression. I'm glad your family is thicker than armadillo hide but most people are not. Simply ignoring them sometimes isn't an option.

Simply telling someone well you know that's not right so don't do it, without giving a helping hand is a recipe for disaster.

Is this man a monster? of course but to sit here and say that he should've just sacked up with no help reeks of a faux macho attitude.

I will say fear of breaching this touchy subject is one of the reasons he got no help and that's just asinine

[Fragony]

he said faux

[Vuk]

And high school children have some of the highest rates of sucide, drug abuse, and depression. I'm glad your family is thicker than armadillo hide but most people are not. Simply ignoring them sometimes isn't an option.

Simply telling someone well you know that's not right so don't do it, without giving a helping hand is a recipe for disaster.

Is this man a monster? of course but to sit here and say that he should've just sacked up with no help reeks of a faux macho attitude.

I will say fear of breaching this touchy subject is one of the reasons he got no help and that's just asinine

Life happens, not ones life is easy. That is not an excuse...not at all...not for anything. Yeah, IF he really did get harrassed, then that was bad, and they should not have done it, but that is not why he did what he did, that is not a valid excuse. He did it because of the type of person he is, and because of his extremist beliefs. Thing is that he is NOT a highschool student, he is a fully developed adult capable of making mature decisions. Not shooting your fellow soldiers because you were insulted is not 'macho', it is sane and mature. If he really was harrassed (so far it is only his family saying so), he should have reported it.
And yes, I agree, he should have been taken care of a long time ago. It is leftist BS groups like the ACLU you have to thank for it as well, because they had the Army soo afraid of touching the guy because he was a muslim of Middle Eastern ancestory. He is fully responsible for his own actions, and the people who did not report him are fully responsible for theirs. Don't try to shift the blame.

[drone]

It is leftist BS groups like the ACLU

[Vuk]

What I mean is, if the Army had kicked Hassan out or tried to prosecute him, you could be that the ACLU and other leftist groups would jump all over them and claim that they were discriminating against him because he was a muslim arab.

[Husar]

Life happens, not ones life is easy. That is not an excuse...not at all...not for anything.

And that you're apparently antisocial enough to just look over having no friends, only enemies, is not going to stop others from going insane and shooting everybody. So what?
You're saying people should just adapt to the harassment, which effectively makes you an apologizer for those who harass others, how exactly is that better than being an apologizer for Hassan?
Do you really think driving people into suicide, mass murder, depression and other things is just fine and the weaklings should just grow a brain? If I told you to grow a brain now, could you do it? If I told you to stop harassing other people, would that be easier or harder?

[Vuk]

And that you're apparently antisocial enough to just look over having no friends, only enemies, is not going to stop others from going insane and shooting everybody. So what?
You're saying people should just adapt to the harassment, which effectively makes you an apologizer for those who harass others, how exactly is that better than being an apologizer for Hassan?
Do you really think driving people into suicide, mass murder, depression and other things is just fine and the weaklings should just grow a brain? If I told you to grow a brain now, could you do it? If I told you to stop harassing other people, would that be easier or harder?

Antisocial? lmao. First of all, he did have friends. The reason he did not have more was his fault, not someone else's.

driving people into suicide, mass murder, depression and other things

lmaoX2 Are you kidding me? You are just throwing the blame off of him and onto others. Many, many others underwent the same and worse than what he did and did not do that. The difference is that THEY were not murderers and terrorists. I never said that harrassing some was a good thing (and I love how you keep taking his family's word on that over all the words of the soldiers who denied it), but it does not even compare to being a murderer or terrorist. Why do you try so desperately to defend a murderous terrorist BTW? After a while doesn't PC get a little low?

[Strike For The South]

Life happens, not ones life is easy. That is not an excuse...not at all...not for anything. Yeah, IF he really did get harrassed, then that was bad, and they should not have done it, but that is not why he did what he did, that is not a valid excuse. He did it because of the type of person he is, and because of his extremist beliefs. Thing is that he is NOT a highschool student, he is a fully developed adult capable of making mature decisions. Not shooting your fellow soldiers because you were insulted is not 'macho', it is sane and mature. If he really was harrassed (so far it is only his family saying so), he should have reported it.
And yes, I agree, he should have been taken care of a long time ago. It is leftist BS groups like the ACLU you have to thank for it as well, because they had the Army soo afraid of touching the guy because he was a muslim of Middle Eastern ancestory. He is fully responsible for his own actions, and the people who did not report him are fully responsible for theirs. Don't try to shift the blame.

Never said he was excused nor that he is an any way right.

However to sit here and say he just needs to suck it up is the worst kind of outsider perspective. I'll agree the army was afraid to touch him because he was muslim and that's a tragedy that what were obvious cries for help went unheeded simply because the military wasn't sure how they should handle the suituation.

No man is an island and everyone needs a helping hand once in a while, even the vile and evil people. The army should use this as a learning expereince.

He should rot in prison for the rest of his life and you need to stop watching Roadhouse.

[Vuk]

Never said he was excused nor that he is an any way right.

However to sit here and say he just needs to suck it up is the worst kind of outsider perspective. I'll agree the army was afraid to touch him because he was muslim and that's a tragedy that what were obvious cries for help went unheeded simply because the military wasn't sure how they should handle the suituation.

No man is an island and everyone needs a helping hand once in a while, even the vile and evil people. The army should use this as a learning expereince.

He should rot in prison for the rest of his life and you need to stop watching Roadhouse.

Never seen it in my life. (roadhouse that is)
I never said that people harrassing him were excused (IF people harrassed him; I am still waiting to find out more about that). All I am saying is that it is excusing Hassan and his personal choice to say that his fellow soldiers "drove him to it". Such a statement lays at least as much blame on them and considerable lessens/removes the blame from Hassan. And I never said he should suck it up, I said he should have done some more rational and less evil than be a terrorist and murder people.

[Strike For The South]

Never seen it in my life. (roadhouse that is)
I never said that people harrassing him were excused (IF people harrassed him; I am still waiting to find out more about that). All I am saying is that it is excusing Hassan and his personal choice to say that his fellow soldiers "drove him to it". Such a statement lays at least as much blame on them and considerable lessens/removes the blame from Hassan. And I never said he should suck it up, I said he should have done some more rational and less evil than be a terrorist and murder people.

lmao, most kids take more heat in Highschool! You know, he could have just done what normal people do when they get harrassed, and said "Yeah, they are *******, but I am not gonna sink to their level. I will just ignore them". You know, I have recieved a LOT of harrasment myself for the type of person I am (esp in college), as did my family. You know what you do? You ignore them. Supposing that Hassan really got harrasment, that is what he should have done. He was not a dumby. He knows enough to know that murder and terrorism is not right. He knows enough to ignore idiots. He was a murderer and a terrorist.

To endure a period of mental, physical, or emotional hardship with no complaining.

Sounds like sucking it up to me. I'm not laying the blame on anyone but him. But simply because it's his fault does not mean there aern't other factors at work and if he just gloss over those and look at his religion we are missing very large points that need to be addressed

This man clearly had mental issues but he was not part of any world wide terror organasation nor did he have any stated goals other than to kill. Those are some very important distinctions.

[Vuk]

To endure a period of mental, physical, or emotional hardship with no complaining.

Sounds like sucking it up to me. I'm not laying the blame on anyone but him. But simply because it's his fault does not mean there aern't other factors at work and if he just gloss over those and look at his religion we are missing very large points that need to be addressed

This man clearly had mental issues but he was not part of any world wide terror organasation nor did he have any stated goals other than to kill. Those are some very important distinctions.

First of all, you took what I said out of context. Yes, I said he should have ignored them, but what I meant was let what they did get to him. If he was really harrassed, he should have reported it or spoke to the people.
Second of all, you are taking the word of a terrorist's family that a terrorist told them something. So you are taking the word of a terrorists family so you can take the word of a terrorist. I don't know about you, but I am more inclined to believe the words of the soldiers (some of whom risked their lives to save others) over that of a terrorist's family and a terrorist. Right now he may or may not have been harrassed as they say, but until more information about this comes out, I don't think it is fair to just assume that he really was harrassed.
Third of all, it does not matter if he was not part of an international organization, he believed in an international ideology and religion of violence. The same one that motivated the 911 hijackers: radical islam. That says, he did seem to have at least some contact with mainstream radicals, so he was connected to terror organisations.

[Strike For The South]

First of all, you took what I said out of context. Yes, I said he should have ignored them, but what I meant was let what they did get to him. If he was really harrassed, he should have reported it or spoke to the people.

You didn't say that amigo.

lmao, most kids take more heat in Highschool! You know, he could have just done what normal people do when they get harrassed, and said "Yeah, they are *******, but I am not gonna sink to their level. I will just ignore them". You know, I have recieved a LOT of harrasment myself for the type of person I am (esp in college), as did my family. You know what you do? You ignore them. Supposing that Hassan really got harrasment, that is what he should have done. He was not a dumby. He knows enough to know that murder and terrorism is not right. He knows enough to ignore idiots. He was a murderer and a terrorist.

Where does it say he should report it to the authorties in this post? I'll tell you. Nowhere. Multiple refrences to ignoring. So either defend it or admit you were wrong but don't revise what you said to make a better arguement.

Second of all, you are taking the word of a terrorist's family that a terrorist told them something. So you are taking the word of a terrorists family so you can take the word of a terrorist. I don't know about you, but I am more inclined to believe the words of the soldiers (some of whom risked their lives to save others) over that of a terrorist's family and a terrorist. Right now he may or may not have been harrassed as they say, but until more information about this comes out, I don't think it is fair to just assume that he really was harrassed.

You seemed pretty ready to make that assumption. Soldiers are simply people. I know many guys who joined all branches and I know some who probably would give this guy crap. These guys are mostly young christian kids, you really think there isn't going to be some teasing of such an openly devout socially akward muslim?

Third of all, it does not matter if he was not part of an international organization, he believed in an international ideology and religion of violence. The same one that motivated the 911 hijackers: radical islam. That says, he did seem to have at least some contact with mainstream radicals, so he was connected to terror organisations.

Well I guess people whom bomb abortion clincis are part of some giant christian conspiracy.

I know he tried reaching out to legitamize himself but did anythign ever matrialize? Hell I want to be French but that doesn't mean it's happening. Wish in one hand, **** in the other and see which onefills up first.

[Vuk]

You didn't say that amigo.

I know I didn't, I didn't think I had to. I was not commenting on his inactivity, simply on him not letting the attacks get to him. (and therefore drive him to terrorism, blah, blah, blah.


Where does it say he should report it to the authorties in this post? I'll tell you. Nowhere. Multiple refrences to ignoring. So either defend it or admit you were wrong but don't revise what you said to make a better arguement.

I did not revise it, I explained it. My comments were about him not letting himself get upset. What I said above was simply that that of course does not rule out action such as reporting it. (which I still wonder why he didn't...surely he noticed how people walked on eggshells around him.)

You seemed pretty ready to make that assumption. Soldiers are simply people. I know many guys who joined all branches and I know some who probably would give this guy crap. These guys are mostly young christian kids, you really think there isn't going to be some teasing of such an openly devout socially akward muslim?

Socially awkward? You mean like saying that they are infidels and should have their throats cut open and boiling oil poured down them? Yeah, I dare say that that could be awkward. I don't know, I think most people would have been afraid of him. Regardless though, I am not assuming that. I simply said that there is no reason to assume the opposite on much less evidence and start talking as if it were true. Think of it, who do you think is more likely to be honest?

Well I guess people whom bomb abortion clincis are part of some giant christian conspiracy.

I never said it was part of a conspiracy, but of an ideology and religiously motivated. And an ideology TAUGHT by mainstream radicals (who he contacted and even worshipped with. I highly doubt anyone but him new about it, but his motivation still came from a mainstream radical ideology. There really is no such broad, widely held and supported belief among Christians about the morality of murdering people in abortion clinics. Those lone bombers did not get their ideology from larger terrorist groups and even countries.

I know he tried reaching out to legitamize himself but did anythign ever matrialize? Hell I want to be French but that doesn't mean it's happening. Wish in one hand, **** in the other and see which onefills up first.

I never said he joined any of those groups, but it does not mean that they did not influence his beliefs, or that he did not learn from them.

Anyway, it is late, so I gotta tuck in and go nighty-night.

[Strike For The South]

I know I didn't, I didn't think I had to. I was not commenting on his inactivity, simply on him not letting the attacks get to him. (and therefore drive him to terrorism, blah, blah, blah.

No you were telling him to suck it up and basically saying he should've ignored them.

I did not revise it, I explained it. My comments were about him not letting himself get upset. What I said above was simply that that of course does not rule out action such as reporting it. (which I still wonder why he didn't...surely he noticed how people walked on eggshells around him.)

No you told him to suck it up and then you said he should report it and now you are wondering why people were walking on eggshels around him. Even though you said eralier he wasn't being harrassed. So this begs the question. Should've he gone to the authorties to ask why people don't like him?

Socially awkward? You mean like saying that they are infidels and should have their throats cut open and boiling oil poured down them? Yeah, I dare say that that could be awkward. I don't know, I think most people would have been afraid of him. Regardless though, I am not assuming that. I simply said that there is no reason to assume the opposite on much less evidence and start talking as if it were true. Think of it, who do you think is more likely to be honest?

Do you have a link for that quote? At this point both sides have motive for lying. No one wants our troops saying dirty nasty things out of xenophobia but it may have happend and I assume it did based on my exp. with these guys.

I never said it was part of a conspiracy, but of an ideology and religiously motivated. And an ideology TAUGHT by mainstream radicals (who he contacted and even worshipped with. I highly doubt anyone but him new about it, but his motivation still came from a mainstream radical ideology. There really is no such broad, widely held and supported belief among Christians about the morality of murdering people in abortion clinics. Those lone bombers did not get their ideology from larger terrorist groups and even countries.

And all indictations say this man acted alone to. He wanted to be a martyr. Nothing more, nothing less and not allot different than many other religons. Nothing as of right now points to him being part of a larger group or him having anyother goals other than just to kill. You know, like pshycopaths.

I never said he joined any of those groups, but it does not mean that they did not influence his beliefs, or that he did not learn from them.

Same could be said for people who bomb clinics.

[drone]

that the ACLU and other leftist groups

[Major Robert Dump]

I don't think the ACLU has ever been in a VS. with the US military.

But thanks you Vuk, I could finally contribute to this thread again and not have the post deleted. Now if the NRA and AARP would just leave the Coast Guard alone!!!

[Hax]

What motivated the 9/11 hijackers was simply one thing: hatred towards the United States. Islam is/was a tool they could use to gain support.

[HoreTore]

Why has this devolved into a discussion on terrorism?

The man attacked a military installation and killed soldiers. That's an act of war, not terrorism.

Thus, the man is an enemy soldier, not a terrorist.

[Husar]

Antisocial? lmao. First of all, he did have friends. The reason he did not have more was his fault, not someone else's.

Sure, it's always the fault of the guy who is being harassed, that's exactly why the guy who was murdered also only has himself to blame for his behaviour, same thing really.

lmaoX2 Are you kidding me? You are just throwing the blame off of him and onto others. Many, many others underwent the same and worse than what he did and did not do that. The difference is that THEY were not murderers and terrorists.

Well, you're also throwing all the blame off the harassers, many, many others have been killed for their harassment, yet these people didn't learn a thing, it's survival of the fittest out there and Hasan survived, go figure... The point about terrorism has been addressed by HoreTore already.

I never said that harrassing some was a good thing (and I love how you keep taking his family's word on that over all the words of the soldiers who denied it)

Yeeees, I'm sure those noble soldiers would be the first to admit that they harassed him...

but it does not even compare to being a murderer or terrorist. Why do you try so desperately to defend a murderous terrorist BTW? After a while doesn't PC get a little low?

Yes, it does not compare, destroying a soul is obviously far worse, so bad that the destroyed soul might go on a rampage. At least, being the good soldiers they were, they'll all go to heaven or whatever nice place you believe in. You know, not everybody is like you and disregards what others say, for some people words can hit really deep and hard, be very hurtful, like a bullet. He just gave some of it back with real physical bullets because he couldn't win the mental shootout. Cause and consequence, you can stand under a waterfall and whine that it makes you wet and that it is a murderous terrorist waterfall but that won't stop it from making you wet until you leave it alone and go away. Or to paraphrase Einstein, everything is relative. Walk into a lion's den and you suffer the consequences, expecting it to behave like a rabbit won't help, you end up dead anyway. Those people harassed the wrong guy and paid dearly for it, that's life, deal with it.

[Fragony]

You know, not everybody is like you and disregards what others say, for some people words can hit really deep and hard, be very hurtful, like a bullet.

I really have no patience for this. You see a bullet also hits the people surrounding the victim, his friends, his family, I have a little bit more sympathy for their distress. It's a very ego-centrist approach you are taking, you feel helpless so it's right everybody must suffer? Maybe you just can't take a joke. I know you mean well and that it isn't really your point, but that's a lot of understanding wasted on what is a cold blooded murderer.

[Husar]

You know, not everybody is like you and disregards what others say, for some people words can hit really deep and hard, be very hurtful, like a bullet.

I really have no patience for this. You see a bullet also hits the people surrounding the victim, his friends, his family, I have a little bit more sympathy for their distress. It's a very ego-centrist approach you are taking, you feel helpless so it's right everybody must suffer? Maybe you just can't take a joke. I know you mean well and that it isn't really your point, but that's a lot of understanding wasted on what is a cold blooded murderer.

I was completely overreacting, on purpose. I can tell you that when you want to kill someone you do not take the hurting of their family etc. into account because you are so concentrated on the hate etc. By your example every kill a soldier makes would hit the civilians as well though, so he would essentially just have killed people who are like him?!
It's not about being unable to take a joke, it's about not being able to take hundreds or thousands of "jokes", if anyone snaps from just one misunderstanding, then yes, they're nuts.
Having fun on the expense of other people over a long time is also rather self-centered, don't you think? and one of the consequences of this might just be that the other person goes on a rampage. What I'm saying is you should grab the issue at the root, not just pick the obvious guy to blame for everything and explain the rest away by calling him sick or a weakling, mental abuse is very often completely underestimated. And I do recognize that it may never have happened but then as I said, the perpetrators would hardly admit to it anyway, much easier to blame everything on the guy noone likes anyway.