How do you think CA is doing, right now?

**Krusader** · 11-25-2009, 15:48

As one within EB said some days ago:
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I'm not sure if everyone has read this blog entry by Mike Simpson from CA, but it seems like they're in big trouble. After reading his previous blog entries (specially the first one) and being a RL project manager myself, I would say that CA is probably in great danger.

The combination of low rates from gamers for ETW, high costs on trying to solve the BAI and CAI (now completely lost since the main AI programmer left them), the high pressure from SEGA, and probably a few more internal problems have forced this project responsible to come out publicly and make a big "mea culpa".

Personally, I think he's doing a lousy job because he's being very lame:

- he says the US public prefers a non-aggressive AI because they want to set the pace of the game... I'm not sure if he's calling them stupid or hinting that the hardcore fans are asking too much from the AI

- he says SEGA pushed them to release the game by Feb09, hinting that it was their fault for a rushed product

- he calls deserter to the main AI programmer who left them recently... ouch!

- he admits that the BAI in ETW is very bad but now they are moving on with new code to NTW and cannot reuse it for fixing ETW... he even asks for a C++ coder to join CA because he will find a place for him...

As a RL project manager myself, I can almost recognize the pattern here:

- this guy's job is on the line - his desperate tone and he can't hide that he was forced to create that blog against his will, to make "damage control" on the irate fans - his job only, or the entire ETW team?

- possibly CA is also in danger of closing if NTW doesn't become a success - it's not very clear, but I have that feeling

- they are under stress from SEGA and probably won't have money and/or people good enough to make a new RTW. - he praises them so much that it almost sounds like "don't fire them because they are awesomely good, although they made a bad job in ETW"...

I don't know guys, but I'm starting to doubt if we'll ever see an RTWII someday...
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Fisherking asked how we thought CA was doing and I thought this post was nice. And just to be on the absolute clear, this is an opinion/impression and not facts.

**Durallan** · 11-25-2009, 17:29

I don't want CA to go bankrupt or anything because I like these totalwar games, but its a caseof, had they listened to us about the AI in M2TW, would we be at this stage today? IDK but it will be a shame if they go. I don't know how CA are going TBH, I haven't played ETW or looked at these boards since I got Dragon Age Origins, been playing that all along instead

**Alexander the Pretty Good** · 11-25-2009, 17:56

Why would we want to see a Rome 2 anyway? You're kidding yourself if you think it's any different from M2 or Empire.

**gollum** · 11-25-2009, 18:02

Bingo, but try to explain this to EB enthusiasts and RTW fanboys. In any case CA may make better games if it has more moderate resources. Or far worse ones of course. In either case a dramatic change will happen if they get into difficulties which considering how bad TW has become can be nothing else than good imo.

**Fisherking** · 11-25-2009, 18:28

If we look at the bog, then they did listen about the AI. It just turned on them when they lost the programmer.

Yes, they are under pressure form SEGA. SEGA is not doing all that well and CA is carrying a big burden because they made the money for them in sales. Now they have to do it again.

They are under a lot of pressure from the fan base too because of the problems with ETW and a loss of confidence which will likely impact sales.

I am not forecasting the end of CA or the Total War franchise but things could be a lot better.

They are sort of between a rock and a hard place.

**Durallan** · 11-26-2009, 03:59

Originally Posted by Fisherking

If we look at the blog, then they did listen about the AI. It just turned on them when they lost the programmer.

Yes, they are under pressure form SEGA. SEGA is not doing all that well and CA is carrying a big burden because they made the money for them in sales. Now they have to do it again.

They are under a lot of pressure from the fan base too because of the problems with ETW and a loss of confidence which will likely impact sales.

I am not forecasting the end of CA or the Total War franchise but things could be a lot better.

They are sort of between a rock and a hard place.

Why didn't they tell us this in the first place instead of giving us excuse after excuse after excuse?
it feels more boy crying Wolf! than something genuine. It comes once again to telling us the truth, we are grown ups, most of us we can take it!

**antisocialmunky** · 11-26-2009, 06:08

Originally Posted by Durallan

Why didn't they tell us this in the first place instead of giving us excuse after excuse after excuse?
it feels more boy crying Wolf! than something genuine. It comes once again to telling us the truth, we are grown ups, most of us we can take it!

Because it is a rather pathetic answer if you think about it.

**nameless** · 11-26-2009, 05:12

Originally Posted by Fisherking

If we look at the bog, then they did listen about the AI. It just turned on them when they lost the programmer.

Yes, they are under pressure form SEGA. SEGA is not doing all that well and CA is carrying a big burden because they made the money for them in sales. Now they have to do it again.

They are under a lot of pressure from the fan base too because of the problems with ETW and a loss of confidence which will likely impact sales.

I am not forecasting the end of CA or the Total War franchise but things could be a lot better.

They are sort of between a rock and a hard place.

Meh, they're a business not a charity group so they have to make a living, why that's so hard for some people to understand is beyond me.

They want to make a good game and they got the drive. From what I read on his blog they are looking to do better and make amends on NTW. With 1.5 they've fixed most of the major issues. Now it's the Battle AI and the sieges (at least form what I see anyways)

If NTW works out then that'll be good.

But not me...I'm expecting Gettysburg: Total War for the console in 2012.

Let's hope it never goes to console, that would be a bad decision.

**antisocialmunky** · 11-25-2009, 18:29

Well, the pattern isn't really downsizing. Its shutting down the studio, retaining IP rights, and figuring out what to do with the IPs you got from the studio. That's the EA model anyways.

**Zild** · 11-25-2009, 21:47

Originally Posted by Krusader

- he calls deserter to the main AI programmer who left them recently... ouch!

I really think everybody is reading way too much into this particular comment. It sounds like no more than typical British banter to me. Hell, I'd take it as a far worse sign if CA felt they couldn't say this about the guy!

I think CA are desperately looking for additional revenue streams and it's hurting them badly with the fans, if not financially. Wargaming (even in software form) is very much a niche hobby, and anything they do to try to expand the audience is seen as a bad thing by the original audience - too easy, too shallow, even too pretty.

As for ETW, I was put off that entirely by the concept of having to pay more real money for access to all the units. I appreciate this is almost certainly a blinkered, ill-informed and most likely incorrect view as I haven't really looked into it, and so I could not justify attacking CA over this. But how many other people would have been put off by the same concern?

**Alexander the Pretty Good** · 11-25-2009, 22:10

They should seriously sign with a better publisher, or self-publish. See if one of the online distribution guys like Stardock or even Paradox want to work something out, or just go solo and sell through primarily through Steam. (I'm probably one of the few curmudgeons who's actually ok with Steam, mind you).

**Krusader** · 11-25-2009, 22:24

Originally Posted by Zild

I really think everybody is reading way too much into this particular comment. It sounds like no more than typical British banter to me. Hell, I'd take it as a far worse sign if CA felt they couldn't say this about the guy!

I think CA are desperately looking for additional revenue streams and it's hurting them badly with the fans, if not financially. Wargaming (even in software form) is very much a niche hobby, and anything they do to try to expand the audience is seen as a bad thing by the original audience - too easy, too shallow, even too pretty.

As for ETW, I was put off that entirely by the concept of having to pay more real money for access to all the units. I appreciate this is almost certainly a blinkered, ill-informed and most likely incorrect view as I haven't really looked into it, and so I could not justify attacking CA over this. But how many other people would have been put off by the same concern?

I think if Mike Simpson had written "deserter" no one would have cared as much, if at all.
But people are frustrated with CA & ETW and the reactions to the TW blog seems to be mostly negative, then yeah I will agree to a point they might be reading too much into the comment...but then again I personally have gotten the feeling that Mr.Simpson isn't that happy about writing that blog either, so that is why I went like this

, when I read the deserter comment.

And on another note, as we've said other places there won't be any EB3 for ETW or NTW if some here thought we were CA-fanbois. If you had read the EB team's thread you'd see that most of us will probably buy NTW when it hits the bargain bin.
Although a few on the team do have a dream that there will be a RTW2 with ETW engine or better made by a Creative Assembly who listens to fans and actually follows through on mod tools.
But not me...I'm expecting Gettysburg: Total War for the console in 2012.

My own Total War dream is to see Shogun and Medieval 1 on gog.com!

Originally Posted by Alexander the Pretty Good

They should seriously sign with a better publisher, or self-publish. See if one of the online distribution guys like Stardock or even Paradox want to work something out, or just go solo and sell through primarily through Steam. (I'm probably one of the few curmudgeons who's actually ok with Steam, mind you).

But isn't that a bit hard when SEGA actually owns CA and decides what they do?

**Alexander the Pretty Good** · 11-25-2009, 22:35

Originally Posted by Krusader

My own Total War dream is to see Shogun and Medieval 1 on gog.com!

Word, I've never played Shoggy and that would be a surefire way to rectify that situation.

But isn't that a bit hard when SEGA actually owns CA and decides what they do?

Probably, though I don't know the full situation. But after two bad experiences with publishers (there was some sort of reason they wanted out from Activision, right?) you'd think CA would be looking into something new.