MoH winner to be sued for Flagpole

[Major Robert Dump]

This is why I bought a house in the country. I'm going to paint it with zebra stripes and put up signs that label it as a Zombie Safe Zone. And no one can do anything about it.

[Lemur]

Just be on your guard when they start subdividing that farmer's field near you, MRD.

I guess my predilection for buying very old houses has kept me safe all of these years. I wasn't even conscious of it.

IMHO, individual conscience is superior to social pressure, social pressure is superior to binding contracts, and binding contracts are superior to law. The least amount of outside interference and/or force should be used to arrive at a safe minimum of conduct. But that's just my perspective.

[KukriKhan]

Just be on your guard when they start subdividing that farmer's field near you, MRD.

I guess my predilection for buying very old houses has kept me safe all of these years. I wasn't even conscious of it.

IMHO, individual conscience is superior to social pressure, social pressure is superior to binding contracts, and binding contracts are superior to law. The least amount of outside interference and/or force should be used to arrive at a safe minimum of conduct. But that's just my perspective.

Up the individual, down the collective!

[drone]

This is why I bought a house in the country. I'm going to paint it with zebra stripes and put up signs that label it as a Zombie Safe Zone. And no one can do anything about it.

My dream has always been to get a house on lots of land, that way if anybody complains about the way my house looks, I could shoot them for trespassing.

[Lemur]

They've already got a sign ready for you, drone:

[Prussian to the Iron]

Did they try and put up minnarets?

Minarets and Flag-Poles. And Medals of Honor.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

When your neighbors end up doing crap that can and does affect your property value, you will not be pleased over it. All the same reasons I care about dings in my truck. I like it, and want to keep it looking nice as long as I can. Eventually when I get tired of it, the better shape it's in translates directly into trade-in value. If you don't, then I guess I can somewhat admire your "screw it" attitude, but I would turn that right around and tell you that indifference is ridiculous.

I think everyone from buddha to modern psychologists would say that being invested in your belongings is not a good route to happiness. Indifference is ridiculous from a financial perspective, I agree.

If the HOA was going to ban leaf blowers and edge trimmers I'd be right with you.

Property value = selling the house = moving my family into a bigger house eventually = more space for us, the eventual kids, dogs, and friends + family visiting. Rinse and repeat.

I hate dogs, and big houses are overrated

The last piece is going to be social norms. Let's face it. If you keep your house looking nasty, or paint it horrible colors, or generally have it in a state that's not aesthetically pleasing BUT still within legal limits, you are generally going to become "that neighbor" and your social situation will suffer accordingly.

The couple on our street who are "that neighbor" are the ones who keep their house and yard very tidy and send out concerned emails. Possibly one of the funniest things ever was when they sent out an email about the "black man walking by who peered into their windows", giving his description and warning us all to be on the lookout. Of course everyone else recognized the description, it was the judge who lives down the street

[Centurion1]

sasaki id be worried if MY neighbors started looking in my windows.......

[Prussian to the Iron]

i think they over-reacted, and he was just looking at the house.

[A Very Super Market]

No, I think that judge was going to rob them. All

[Whacker]

I think everyone from buddha to modern psychologists would say that being invested in your belongings is not a good route to happiness. Indifference is ridiculous from a financial perspective, I agree.

If the HOA was going to ban leaf blowers and edge trimmers I'd be right with you.

I hate dogs, and big houses are overrated

I'll just say this much. If one's happiness is based only on his or her toys, then I'd agree that's a fragile and sad situation. Life is much more than that.

However, the guy who coined the phrase "Money can't buy happiness" clearly didn't have much money or toys.

Also you are a wretched, horrible person for not liking dogs!!!111oneoneone

The couple on our street who are "that neighbor" are the ones who keep their house and yard very tidy and send out concerned emails. Possibly one of the funniest things ever was when they sent out an email about the "black man walking by who peered into their windows", giving his description and warning us all to be on the lookout. Of course everyone else recognized the description, it was the judge who lives down the street

That's just terrible. Obviously there's more than one way to become "that neighbor", your example is perfect. More often than naught the situations I've run in to growing up and now, "that neighbor" is the jacknuts who doesn't keep his property up. I'd say on my cul de sac, the worst ones (who are actually nice people) are the obnoxious Steelers fans (I'm looking at you, Ice). Steelers flags, stuff under the mailbox, wheel covers on their jeeps, etc etc. In the neighborhood, it's the junkies the next street over that are on the cop's watch list, have strange people coming and going at all hours, and don't take good care of their house to boot.

[miotas]

The "that neighbour" I can remember best growing up was a man who was obsessed with his property value and he would lose his nut when the kids would hit a cricket ball into his bushes and go rummaging though his garden looking for it. One day he told us to get off his lawn and threw our ball down the drain, then my mate's dad went to his house and asked quite loudly and rather impolitely, what the was his problem, we were just a few kids wanting our ball back after all. When "that neighbour" responded he didn't want a few kids destroying his property value, he was told in no short order just where to stick his "property value", at which point everyone in the street cheered. He moved out not long after.

[Husar]

Well, here in europe people don't buy sellaway houses to live in for two years and then move on like nomads, they usually build a house to live in and call their home for the rest of their lives, so property value is secondary at best. Or that's how I perceive it anyway.

[KukriKhan]

Well, here in europe people don't buy sellaway houses to live in for two years and then move on like nomads, they usually build a house to live in and call their home for the rest of their lives, so property value is secondary at best. Or that's how I perceive it anyway.

It helps that your houses, and even apartments, are built to last for 300+ years. Where I live now, the oldest house in town has a brass plaque on it, celebrating that it was built in 1894. In the 21 years I've been here, it has changed owners 3 times, so I take your point.

[Prussian to the Iron]

well, admittedly, even if you intend on living somewhere your entire life, it may not always end up working out. your kids may want to sell it after your death, you might have problems with property taxes, you could be forced to move due to any number of things (jobs, neighbors, and amount of activity in your area are notable).


so, in short, it's nice to not worry about property value, but you do need to upkeep your house just in case. however, that DOES NOT mean being an insensitive dick about it and trying to force an old man to take out hsi flagpole.



honestly....think about it. if he removed the flag pole there is a large hole in the ground with nothing on it. sod helps i suppose, but thats not a good solution.

[Fisherking]

With regard to home owners associations, most American real-estate transactions have a clause in them stating that the home owner will abide by the regulations, even though there is no association at the time of purchase.

From what is said, flag poles are not expressly forbidden, but it is likely that all improvements be submitted to the board for approval.

The Board is likely four people sitting around a kitchen table once a month.

These people must have known who they were dealing with before they denied the request. Hence, some or all of the board have some agenda in the requests denial.

This type of controversy does not increase property values. It gives people pause before buying a home under their jurisdiction.

Their next meeting is likely to be more like a lynching with everyone calling for them to resign.

These people are usually about petty power. They will be losing it, I would imagine.

They should just quietly change their minds because even if they win in court, they only get more trouble.

I would worry that someone gives their names...

[Prussian to the Iron]

This type of controversy does not increase property values. It gives people pause before buying a home under their jurisdiction.

exactly. if I had wanted a house there, after this incident, I would be worried about what kind of rights I have, and whether or not I'd be allowed to even make any improvements at all. I think people will be more weary about HOA's now.

[Papewaio]

http://www.senate.gov/reference/reso...df/RL30243.pdf

Restrictions on Display of the Flag by
Real Estate Associations
The Freedom to Display the American Flag Act of 200556 prohibits a
condominium, cooperative, or real estate management association from adopting or
enforcing any policy or agreement that would restrict or prevent a member of the
association from displaying the flag in accordance with the Federal Flag Code on
residential property to which the member has a separate ownership interest.

So is the HOA breaking the law?

If this is the case he should use the 24hr illuminated rule too:

It is the universal custom to display the flag only from sunrise to sunset on
buildings and on stationary flagstaffs in the open. However, when a patriotic
effect is desired, the flag may be displayed 24 hours a day if properly illuminated
during hours of darkness.23

I wonder what would happen if he sub-leased his flagpole to the DoD what would then happen?

In general in Aus we don't have many flagpoles or flags flying. I would be amazed to see a VC winner being banned from flying the Australia flag in Australia. I find it abhorrent that people are so fixated on money that they would tell a 90 year old war hero that he cannot continue doing something that is representative of what he believes in.

Given the list of courtesies given to Medal of Honor recipients I think the HOA is out of line with what they are asking. It would be interesting if another benefit added would be for MoH to have a flagpole any place they please.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

http://www.senate.gov/reference/reso...df/RL30243.pdf



So is the HOA breaking the law?

They can't stop you from flying a flag, but they can stop you from having a flagpole.

[Prussian to the Iron]

in the second quote it says "flagstaffs", so i assume that at least that one applies o flag poles as well, so if he keeps it illuminated (which, honestly, i think would lower property value more than just a sun-up to sun-down thing) he should be good.

[KukriKhan]

I wonder what would happen if he sub-leased his flagpole to the DoD what would then happen?

Fort Lee, Virginia (home of the Quartermaster Corps) is the nearest military installation to our hero's neighborhood. If you were the Command Sergeant Major of Fort Lee, wouldn't you be tempted to send an Honor Guard detail, with bugler, to his house at sunrise and sunset to formally observe Reveille and Retreat?

I would.

Some good lawyers could have big fun with the issues raised. Do HOA CCR's trump local zoning laws? Contract Law? Federal Flag Codes? Freedom of Speech rights?

Send it to the Supremes, sez I.

[drone]

Fort Lee, Virginia (home of the Quartermaster Corps) is the nearest military installation to our hero's neighborhood. If you were the Command Sergeant Major of Fort Lee, wouldn't you be tempted to send an Honor Guard detail, with bugler, to his house at sunrise and sunset to formally observe Reveille and Retreat?

That would show 'em!

[Beskar]

Only time you see flags in the United Kingdom are generally on Saint Days (Irish flag on St Patricks day, etc) or National Football games (Go England! Go Scotland! etc) or it's a member of the BNP. (self explanatory)

[Louis VI the Fat]

Fort Lee, Virginia (home of the Quartermaster Corps) is the nearest military installation to our hero's neighborhood. If you were the Command Sergeant Major of Fort Lee, wouldn't you be tempted to send an Honor Guard detail, with bugler, to his house at sunrise and sunset to formally observe Reveille and Retreat?

I would.

Some good lawyers could have big fun with the issues raised. Do HOA CCR's trump local zoning laws? Contract Law? Federal Flag Codes? Freedom of Speech rights?

Send it to the Supremes, sez I.

Do you approve of a ninety year old woman who's worked in a kindergarten for fifty years to daily hang out diapers outside?

[Beskar]

Do you approve of a ninety year old woman who's worked in a kindergarten for fifty years to daily hang out diapers outside?

Only if they are clean.

[Prussian to the Iron]

Do you approve of a ninety year old woman who's worked in a kindergarten for fifty years to daily hang out diapers outside?

since that is not a real comparison at all, since diapers are not patriotic nor are they appropriate for hanging outside(like christmas lights in november or january), no, i do not.

[Meneldil]

since that is not a real comparison at all, since diapers are not patriotic nor are they appropriate for hanging outside(like christmas lights in november or january), no, i do not.

Star-spangled diapers then?

[Louis VI the Fat]

[Strike For The South]

Do you approve of a ninety year old woman who's worked in a kindergarten for fifty years to daily hang out diapers outside?

You still craped yourself at 5?

Well....That explains allot....

[Louis VI the Fat]

At the age of one-and-a-half, I could already read and write so they took me out of childcare centre and into the kindergarten.


The point is, should veterans receive a free pass? What of somebody who has worked as a nurse all his life? Does he get to fly a flag at ninety?

For me, it's more his age, not his having fought in the Civil War that irks me a bit about this.