Calling out the mods.

[Fixiwee]

Sounds like rules #1 and #2 were ignored, and the discussion leaked into the main forum and attracted mod attention.
Your crew are pretty active members, and do contribute to the community in the normal forums. Just learn to compartmentalize...

No. Rule#1 and #2 were obeyed. There was no piracy or wares in the tavern. Just occasional bad language.

And see that's the problem. If some members of the tavern would have waved the attention flag, noone would have noticed or cared. Mods might have actually said: "they behave normal in the forum, let's let them have their place where they can blow off steam."

There is a bottom-line and that is that there are some things that cannot do and majority of these can be enforced by the server host, so it is not even up to Tosa to decide it should be allowed or not, as it is the server policy not to have those things,

Should the forum face consequences and possibly shut down because some members couldn't behave themselves? The answer is obviously no.

You are completley exaggerating. I don't believe that you have any idea why the place was deleted.

TosaInu as far as I am aware, just deleted it and went "Right, just create a new one and don't let it get like that again." after there have been warning and comments all done before. One of the worse things as a staff-member is when the forum starts becoming a job rather than something you enjoy. I remember when I was a moderator, that it can easily get into the case where some things really do become a hassle and it is like some members just do it to purposely just to cause trouble.

I'm not causing trouble, yet I am affected. That's hardly fair.

What TosaInu might have been seen as harsh at first, but he has warned and commented on this area before and it was the members of the group that caused all the trouble who are at fault, not TosaInu and the staff-members.

Contacting Appo, the group owner, upfront might have been a good idea. The whole thing was presented with a fait accompli, and we were not even allowed to complain at first. Hardly a diplomatical action, you have to anticipate negative reaction for that.

Of course you can, within the forum rules.

At first I couldn't. Tosa deleted and said there was no discussion. Topic locked after creation. Fait accompli.

There's a lesson in there somewhere, and you people are certainly intelligent enough to figure out what it is. So, think way back when all y'all were removed from TWC. I have no real idea why, but I imagine I wouldn't be far off the mark if it happened to be under similar circumstances, right ? Don't tell me, I really don't care. That was way in the past, and we are concerned with the immediate present.

I have no idea what you are talking about. The EB tavern was formed here in the org as a thread. It was closed due reasons I have no clue, because I wasn't there back then.
If you are concerened with the immediate present, why do you bring the past up. I'm not able to understand the point you are trying to make.

You know, it's funny. This is the only social group at the org that I am aware of that has ever been deleted. In fact, this is the only social group that I can recall with multiple reported posts for unacceptable content. Everyone else seems to be able to handle it, and I don't believe for a minute that all the other groups are 100% choir boys. However, despite that and the lack of moderator super-nannies looking over their shoulders they manage to get along here without any undue trouble.

Yeah. Because Aza and Sub posted links outside the tavern that drew attention. AP basicly asked to be banned aswell.
I am dead sure if those posters wouldn't have messed it up in such a short timespan, no mod would have cared for the minor slips in language there.

This forum is very tolerant when it comes to allowing serious rule breakers back, more so than any other place I've ever been. However, it would be a mistake to take that as a weakness to be exploited.
I'm not speaking for Tosa or anyone else, but as far as I know and am concerned all are welcome to stay including those that are currently temporarily banned. This has always been the policy since I've been here. However, that is up to each of you. All y'all are in total control of your individual circumstances here.

I don't see the connection here. If we all seriously broke the rules, we should get infraction points or bans. Because of language. Deleting the whole group was collective punishment that affected people who posted there and did not break any rules.

[miotas]

Fixi, I too am very dissapointed that one of my favourite places on the internet has been deleted, but it's tosa's forum, he can do whatever he feels is right. I'm more annoyed that Subo and Az went crazy and drew attention to us.

[Fixiwee]

Fixi, I too am very dissapointed that one of my favourite places on the internet has been deleted, but it's tosa's forum, he can do whatever he feels is right. I'm more annoyed that Subo and Az went crazy and drew attention to us.

As I pointed out. I am not defending their actions. That was really stupid and I don't want anything to do with it. As you know well enough that many of our members didn't agree with the concept of trolling the org.
Of course Tosa can delete anything and everything. But there is also something called empathy...

[pevergreen]

miotas you know better than that.

Its fine to do x as long as nobody finds out?

The group broke rules. The EB tavern thread in the frontroom was opened and closed a few times IIRC because of the same thing.

And see that's the problem. If some members of the tavern would have waved the attention flag, noone would have noticed or cared. Mods might have actually said: "they behave normal in the forum, let's let them have their place where they can blow off steam."

Right, so when you went to the social group, did it or did it not have forums.totalwar.org in the URL? Yes? Part of the forums. Why should the rules be different just for you in a slightly removed spot? You have the entire internet to blow off steam.

There are free to host forums! Quicktopics! Email! Maybe it didnt have the feel of the org, but the org has the feel because that stuff is not tolerated.

If a social group on a game forum was the only way you had in keeping in contact with your internet friends...you should at least had emails.

The group of you seem to be acting way under your age and normal maturity levels, however low they sometimes go for a few of you.

[Hosakawa Tito]

Obviously, no answer is going to satisfy you. I empathize with your predicament, but it is what it is.

[Fixiwee]

miotas you know better than that.

You meant me. Not Miotas.

Its fine to do x as long as nobody finds out?

Empathy.
Not everything in this world has to completly defined by rules.
So yes, if people wouldn't have acted crazy and the EB tavern would not have stirred controversity, yes, I think the mods might have not cared.
They knew what language we had for over a year now. They only warrned us when serious rules were broke like linking to warez-sites. Other then that we were fine.

I know this is a lot to take for you, but the mods did not care for months. Just until recently when some taverners started to act strange and in a nutshell asked to be banned.
Do you really think there is no connection to the missbehavior of certain members recently and the deletion of the group? It's basicly a slap in the face.

Right, so when you went to the social group, did it or did it not have forums.totalwar.org in the URL? Yes? Part of the forums. Why should the rules be different just for you in a slightly removed spot? You have the entire internet to blow off steam.

Don't sass me. You are not helping.

There are free to host forums! Quicktopics! Email! Maybe it didnt have the feel of the org, but the org has the feel because that stuff is not tolerated.

What? You think this is the only place I visit?

If a social group on a game forum was the only way you had in keeping in contact with your internet friends...you should at least had emails.

Great comment. That's helping a lot. Jesus...

The group of you seem to be acting way under your age and normal maturity levels, however low they sometimes go for a few of you.

I will not speak for the actions of others.

Obviously, no answer is going to satisfy you. I empathize with your predicament, but it is what it is.

I'm not looking for answers. I really do understand your point of view. I am just stating my resentment towards the sitatuion, which is collective punishment.
Also I felt the urge to clerify what happened, because as this thread shows some members think we are baby eating pseudo-revolutioneries that post links to sites with illegal content just to bring down the org.
We are not like that, we are mostly a cozy community who love group hugging and little bunnies.

[CountArach]

If you are annoyed that people drew attention to you, then clearly you understand that whatever they drew attention to was over the line... otherwise you would have no issue with it. I'm just saying - seems a bit illogical to be using that as an argument.

[Fixiwee]

If you are annoyed that people drew attention to you, then clearly you understand that whatever they drew attention to was over the line... otherwise you would have no issue with it. I'm just saying - seems a bit illogical to be using that as an argument.

I'm not sure if you are refering to miotas or me, but I have already written in this thread:
I am not defending their actions. That was really stupid and I don't want anything to do with it. As you know well enough that many of our members didn't agree with the concept of trolling the org.

So yes. It was over the line. And I didn't agree with them in the first place.

[Csargo]

The Internet, serious business.

Honestly, I have no idea what happened, nor do I really care what you guys did to get your group deleted. What I do know is that most of you guys have provided me with much amusement over time. So I hope that all of you that have been banned get unbanned. Though I doubt my opinions matter much.

[Lemur]

I know this is a lot to take for you, but the mods did not care for months.

Actually, the EB Tavern and some of its crew have been the subject of a great deal of discussion amongst the staff over a period of months. Just because you aren't aware of it doesn't mean it isn't happening.

The way I see it, some of the EB Taverners will stay and contribute to the Org, which is great. A few may decide that if they can't have their private place to post pictures of kittens being burned to death, they need to move on. That's fine too. The internet is big, and nobody needs to feel locked down.

Fixiwee, I'd be curious to hear what you think the Org's management should have done.

[Beskar]

The way I see it, some of the EB Taverners will stay and contribute to the Org, which is great. A few may decide that if they can't have their private place to post pictures of kittens being burned to death, they need to move on. That's fine too. The internet is big, and nobody needs to feel locked down.

I don't think I seen a lolcat picture like that before.

[pevergreen]

you knew I just re-read what i posted and am not really impressed with myself.

I have no reason to disbelieve Lemur, or Ser (below)

[Megas Methuselah]

A cat being burned to death? You've got a wild imagination, old man.

[Fixiwee]

Actually, the EB Tavern and some of its crew have been the subject of a great deal of discussion amongst the staff over a period of months. Just because you aren't aware of it doesn't mean it isn't happening.

Yeah understandable. But that is because some members drew attention. The "staff" wouldn't have cared if every member would have acted normal outside the social group.
Actually when I think of the members that constantly bragged how many infractions they have your statement here is perfectly coherent.

But the fact remains that there was not enough discussion amongst the staff to do act until some members recently were asking for the banhammer to be set in motion.

The way I see it, some of the EB Taverners will stay and contribute to the Org, which is great. A few may decide that if they can't have their private place to post pictures of kittens being burned to death, they need to move on. That's fine too. The internet is big, and nobody needs to feel locked down.

I am sorry, but that is slander. I have not seen a picture of kittens being burned in the tavern or anything like it. Such behavior is not what the EB tavern is about, nor are such people welcome there.
Like AVSM pointed out, profanity was the only rule we broke. And you know what? I can live with that and I still think it's okay within a social group if we play nice.

Fixiwee, I'd be curious to hear what you think the Org's management should have done.

No. That's not my job.
The deletion of the tavern was done.
I don't agree, though I understand the motivation to do so.
Despite it, I think this was not done in a subtle manner, but rather a show of power.
This is why I post here
I know I wont change anything.

But I can at least make you rethink what your position and that's all I ask for.
And I think to a certain agree I succeeded with that.

[miotas]

miotas you know better than that.

Its fine to do x as long as nobody finds out?

The group broke rules. The EB tavern thread in the frontroom was opened and closed a few times IIRC because of the same thing.

I realise this, that is why I'm not crying out in rage like some others, but it was pretty much fine, so long as we kept to ourselves, tucked away in our strange little corner. The real reason I'm annoyed is that some went crazy and took it too far, out in the main forums. All of a sudden we couldn't be ignored any more and Tosa did what he did.

[pevergreen]

C'est la vie.

[drone]

No. Rule#1 and #2 were obeyed. There was no piracy or wares in the tavern. Just occasional bad language.

And see that's the problem. If some members of the tavern would have waved the attention flag, noone would have noticed or cared. Mods might have actually said: "they behave normal in the forum, let's let them have their place where they can blow off steam."

I meant rules #1 and #2 of Fight Club, not the Org.

[Furunculus]

you kids................... *tuts*

[Fixiwee]

I meant rules #1 and #2 of Fight Club, not the Org.

I don't talk about this! ;)

(Sorry for going OT, but this had to be said)