Video games 'worse' than porn

[Meneldil]

Ok, I understand what you are saying. The woman you're talking about is roleplaying; this is something she wants. Maybe the thread got confused. But, real rape is a very serious thing to people who know people who have been raped, or have been raped themselves. Call it playrape, BDSM, roleplaying, what have you, but, just calling it a rape fantasy without being more specific with your words is triggering and inflammatory to some people. Hopefully this will sort it all out.

Maybe I'm weird, or maybe you all are puritan tightass, but I understood what HoreTore meant without the need for more explanation. Rape fantasy = roleplaying a rape, not wishing to be raped.

[Viking]

What the hell is wrong with you people, didn't we make clear, well at least a number of times, that it is just a fantasy? Yes because the word ' rape' means so much it's that much hotter when being dominated if that is your thing no? Makes no sense to you? Let them be, or feel dirty at your next performance of whatever shakespeare

Well, hello.

I think comments like

Rape is actually a very common female fantasy.

no matter how thoroughly explained in detail, fully makes sense. "Rape fantasy", OK, but "fantasising about getting raped"? No way. Time for a reminder that you are always responsible for your own wording. If it is a relatively "common" way to talk about a certain domination fantasy like this, time for a reminder that someone do not know what they are talking about.

And just how did people reproduce before that then? Heck, how do the Amish make babies without porn to tell them how to do it?

It is not necessary to have a "good sex life" in order to get offspring, as far as I know.

[Skullheadhq]

Oh damn, are we advocating rape now...

[HoreTore]

And just how did people reproduce before that then? Heck, how do the Amish make babies without porn to tell them how to do it?

I can't really imagine amish women screaming in ecstasy, so.... I believe they could use some porn guidance to tell them where the various buttons are.

[Ser Clegane]

Oh damn, are we advocating rape now...

No

Ambiguous wording is not equivalent to condoning rape

[Beskar]

And just how did people reproduce before that then? Heck, how do the Amish make babies without porn to tell them how to do it?

I think that porn will make people less likely to have babies as they will be doing it all wrong. We are ending up with a generation which believes doing facials is the norm and have no sense of commitment to a relationship.

[Viking]

Maybe I'm weird, or maybe you all are puritan tightass, but I understood what HoreTore meant without the need for more explanation. Rape fantasy = roleplaying a rape, not wishing to be raped.

Yes, me too knew from post #1 what was meant. Thank you for your snide remark.

People might fantasise about war; but never the negative sides of it. People may not fantasise about rape, because it is sex lacking consent. It would be like fantasising about getting your family blown to pieces in the mentioned war fantasy [when you had no hard feelings towards them]. It is something out of a nightmare, not a fantasy.

EDIT: That some women actually *would* have fantasies about getting raped, implies that it is OK for some women to get raped; which is not what reality is like. They might think that they are getting raped in their fantasies, but they most certainly are not.

[Beskar]

Andres:

Here's a piece on research regarding the prevalence of the "rape fantasy" among women. It seems that figures vary between 19 and 57% depending on age and study. Suggests that it is a fantasy experience during masturbation for a significant minority of women.

That is a pretty poor study then, the obvious big criticism is that a fantasy to get ravished by Brad Pitt =/= Rape.

The study is fundamentally incorrect.

To quote:

For example, Strassberg and Lockerd (1998) found the following themes to be similar in prevalence to rape fantasies: "I imagine myself delighting many men," and "I pretend that I am another irresistibly sexy female."

That is not rape.

[drone]

Some people object to the industry itself, as Seamus stated. Similar to saying that eating meat is OK but factory farming is wrong. I think the trucking industry is also rife with drug use, and exploitative type of job, and certainly most of the profits go to the business owners. But one can't help but feel that someone working in porn because of a lack of options is a worse thing than someone being a trucker for lack of options.

What's worse, being a pr0n actress or an EA game developer?

[Ser Clegane]

Here is the full study by Bivona.

An important point from the introduction chapter:

Since individuals exert considerable control over the contents of their own fantasies, many rape fantasies involve sexual activities that take place consistent with the will and desire of the fantasizer, even though these activities are against the will of her self character. Thus, from the point of view of the self character, there is non-consent and these are rape fantasies. From the viewpoint of the fantasizer, a type of implicit consent has been given.

[Ser Clegane]

That is not rape.

They do not claim that this is rape. If you look at the full quote it is very obvious that they clearly distinguish between these "desirability fantasies" and "rape fantasies". The key point of the quote with regard to "rape fantasies" is the part I bolded.

It seems likely that desirability contributes to the occurrence of rape fantasies, but there are other fantasy themes that also, and perhaps more directly, focus on the woman's desirability. For example, Strassberg and Lockerd (1998) found the following themes to be similar in prevalence to rape fantasies: "I imagine myself delighting many men," and "I pretend that I am another irresistibly sexy female." Desirability theory could be tested by determining whether women who have rape fantasies are also more likely than other women to have other desirability fantasies.

[Beskar]

oops, that was a hiccup on my part then for skim reading.

But as you stated in your other post:

From the viewpoint of the fantasizer, a type of implicit consent has been given.

Therefore, it is not rape.

[HoreTore]

Therefore, it is not rape.

Only those who have been decrying rape fantasies here have been talking about rape, Beskar....

We others have been talking about something quite different.

[Jolt]

Here is my very own test about whether you think rape is a taboo that shouldn't be discussed, made fun of or portrayed in any other way than what you consider is real rape.

***DISCLAIMERS***
This video is (obviously) a comical sketch, however taking into account the opinions I've read here, this video might be somewhat shocking to the said people, even if it doesn't show any rape. As such, if you think you will be shocked by the mocking of raping, then do NOT see this video.

I have become curious to see to what length do people think it is innappropriate to make fun of, or even speak or use the word of "rape" for any other thing except real rape.

I find the video humourous, and do not see anything wrong with it. In lieu of what I read here, I would like to hear the opinions of other orgahs if this sketch is offensive in any way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Fcb-3xmYIA

[Viking]

Only those who have been decrying rape fantasies here have been talking about rape, Beskar....

We others have been talking about something quite different.

That's why they are not "rape fantasies", it is in fact fantasies of being owerpowered according to own desire; which is something completely different.

[Husar]

Uhm, is this perhaps comparable to how we all play wargames and (maybe) dream of being super soldiers but wouldn't really want to be in a real war and actually do it, some people dream about getting raped(in a simulated way, like war is simulated in games) because it turns them on, yet don't really, seriously want to get raped by some stranger?

Just saying there might be a connection, we fantasize about all sorts of things that we'd rather keep simulated instead of getting the "real deal".

[Gregoshi]

<7 hours later...>

I can't believe this rape "discussion" is still going on...on something that is, but isn't. A severe case of thread diarrhea...

Well, I'm flushing this one. (twice )

[KukriKhan]

Only those who have been decrying rape fantasies here have been talking about rape, Beskar....

We others have been talking about something quite different.

And to be clear, I did not decry so-called rape fantasies; rather, I pleaded for some sympathy for those members of the org who have either been raped, or had someone they care about raped. There are at least 3 such people I am aware of, who read this forum. It's a horrible experience for both the victim and those who care about him or her. I speak from experience there.

All I wanted was for posters to pause 2 seconds before submitting their contribution, and "read fantasize", imagine being the rape victim reading what I just wrote - do I still want to write it in just that way?

Were I decrying rape fantasies, this thread would have closed at page 1.

-------------------------
Please carry on.

[A Very Super Market]

We are biologically inclined to have sex. Thus, we can argue that exposing children to porn (Or maybe, those extremely shady subgenres) would have a negative affect on their growth, as their first experience with the concept might involve a man in a monkey suit attempting to procreate with a shrill creature with breasts bounding across the room. This, or course, would be in contrast to a more natural introduction to the wonders of our biology, such as a ravishing and highly embarassing day at the pool.....

*ahem

Sexual development is probably one of the most important parts of our lives. Consider, how serial killers are more often than not killing simply to satisfy their perverse lust. Or just rapists in general. Nothing in our society is more polarising than sex. It can be the pinnacle of a relationship (I am not going to use "climax" anywhere in this post), just another day at the bar, or the ultimate demonstration of spite and malice. It's.... important. Seriously, the entire point of our existence is (Or was) to have sex.

Meanwhile, while we are entirely capable of violence, it isn't something we have an innate need for. The ones who do have one are dangerously insane, unlike the lovable lechers, simply acting out on some evolutionary necessity. Violence also tends to be spur of the moment, done with whatever implements we happen to find. Rocks, sticks, mounted singing Bass™, an unplanned murder doesn't follow a plan, and certainly leaves us with an incredible burden afterwards. We panic and freak out, rather than raise our wanted level and wait for some officers to bash our novelty fish item on.

A planned murder is something difference. Broken down, they fall mostly into Gangs, insane killers, and somewhat planned ones. We can do nothing about homicidal psychopaths but stop them. Gangs aren't motivated by, and certainly didn't start, because of video games. But killers who sort of plan their murders run the gamut. But while their actions can be influenced by games, as in, expecting to be able to run someone over and not damage their car, can we really determine if they are motivated by games? And if they are, are they simply pre-dispositioned to be vulnerable? I suppose you could say the same for rapists....

My mind fails me now, I can't articulate anymore. What is plainly in sight, however, the fact that there has already been a few generations of video gamers with no spike in massacres (Take into account the population growth here), as well as countless generations of erotic entertainment aficionados.

[HoreTore]

That's why they are not "rape fantasies", it is in fact fantasies of being owerpowered according to own desire; which is something completely different.

Yes, and Sylfest Lomheim wants us to say "totusenogti".

Not going to happen, Viking. Ever.

[Fragony]

All I wanted was for posters to pause 2 seconds before submitting their contribution, and "read fantasize", imagine being the rape victim reading what I just wrote - do I still want to write it in just that way?

Were I decrying rape fantasies, this thread would have closed at page 1.

-------------------------
Please carry on.

How do you want me to call exactly the same thing, if someone knows someone who was tortured to death then doesn't SM exist anymore? I think we explained it well enough and made an obvious destinction.

[KukriKhan]

...there has already been a few generations of video gamers with no spike in massacres (Take into account the population growth here), as well as countless generations of erotic entertainment aficionados.

A very good point. If we take away 1970's Pong, and start with the 1980's Mario Brothers, then by now we should expect to see hundreds of thousands of drooling, thumb-twitching, head-bashing age 40-something (and below) murderers, IF vid games had the deleterious effects predicted.

I'm old enough to remember the same predictions being made about: television, rock 'n roll, and comic books. And marijuana. And girlie magazines.

[Scienter]

I'm old enough to remember the same predictions being made about: television, rock 'n roll, and comic books. And marijuana. And girlie magazines.

Video games are the current Great Satan that corrupts our youth and turns them into mindless killers. When the next new media comes along, people will back off games and panic about it, instead.

[Viking]

I wonder if the poor video game graphics of the late 70's inspired this shooting.

So, wich negative influence does porn exert - does it create rapists, or what? [to whoever]

[KukriKhan]

I wonder if the poor video game graphics of the late 70's inspired this shooting.

So, wich negative influence does porn exert - does it create rapists, or what? [to whoever]

I guess it's the same negative influence cited by elders since at least Socrates: corruption of youth and subversion of culture.

[Andres]

I wonder if the poor video game graphics of the late 70's inspired this shooting.

I blame property taxes.

[Brenus]

“I'm old enough to remember the same predictions being made about: television, rock 'n roll, and comic books. And marijuana. And girlie magazines.”
And before, Tango…
Not suggesting that you are old enough to remember…

[A Very Super Market]

I wonder if the poor video game graphics of the late 70's inspired this shooting.

So, wich negative influence does porn exert - does it create rapists, or what? [to whoever]

A sociopath with a penchant for violence being given a rifle for her birthday?

[Subotan]

I blame property taxes.

Damn, beat me to it.

[Scienter]

A friend of mine posted about the game Bonetown on his Facebook page. It's a game that features tons of sex and drugs, but no violence other than being able to knock someone out during combat. I didn't click on the NSFW links, but it's an amusing idea from a guy who thinks it's hypocritical that games contain lots of violence but avoid graphic sex and drug use.