Dragon Age: Origins gameplay and discussion thread.

[johnhughthom]

After playing Mass Effect 2 the control scheme in DAO feels awkward and unwieldy. I played it previously on PS3 and enjoyed it, but it almost seems unplayable now on PC after being used to ME2 controls. Using a rogue getting into position with mouse clicks involves constantly having to move the camera around and the less said about trying to control it with WASD the better. Perhaps it will get easier when I'm used to it, but I don't really feel like getting used to it will be any fun...

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

That's how I felt on trying the demo - it didn't feel right at all for me, so I passed on the game.

[Meneldil]

After playing Mass Effect 2 the control scheme in DAO feels awkward and unwieldy. I played it previously on PS3 and enjoyed it, but it almost seems unplayable now on PC after being used to ME2 controls. Using a rogue getting into position with mouse clicks involves constantly having to move the camera around and the less said about trying to control it with WASD the better. Perhaps it will get easier when I'm used to it, but I don't really feel like getting used to it will be any fun...

I have no issue with the controls whatsoever *shrugs*
If you zoom out, it plays like a RTS, if you zoom in, it plays like a MMO.

[rajpoot]

Why don't they make all the games with simple controls like M&B or some TES game I'll never know.....why have the mouse movement thing at all! That's supposed to be for RTS games.

[Meneldil]

You don't have to use the mouse to play DA:O. WASD is more than enough, unlike MMO's where players who only use WASD will look like morons. I never use the mouse to move my characters in DAO, so *shrugs* again I guess :-P

I seriously don't see what's complicated or tedious or annoying with DA:O controls. Maybe that's because I'm an experienced MMO and RTS player, but I never had any problem at all. To go even further, I think the controls are about as good as you can expect for a party-based RPG. I am no fanboy of the game (I think the gameplay is lacking, and consider there are quite a lot of holes in the story), but DA:O is certainly not shamed by TES games.

[rajpoot]

Not shamed by any TES game. I agree to that....But I guess since the TES games were one of the first RPGs I ever played, I sort of got stuck to the idea of good RPGs using a mouse to look around and arrow keys to move around, with the LMB used to slash and attack.
No issue with controls, easy enough sure.....just would've liked them better had they been different.

BTW does Return to Ostagar change anything in the main storyline/dialogue or is it just a new area with side story like Warden's Keep?

[Ferret]

I never use the mouse to move either, just to loot and change view sometimes....

and yeah return to ostagar is just like warden's keep, a short side quest that gets some powerful items.

[Meneldil]

Not shamed by any TES game. I agree to that....But I guess since the TES games were one of the first RPGs I ever played, I sort of got stuck to the idea of good RPGs using a mouse to look around and arrow keys to move around, with the LMB used to slash and attack.
No issue with controls, easy enough sure.....just would've liked them better had they been different.

BTW does Return to Ostagar change anything in the main storyline/dialogue or is it just a new area with side story like Warden's Keep?

Well, it's more closely tied to the main plot than Warden's Keep, obviously. You learn a few nice things (if you're really interested in the plot).
- First, it seems that the defeat at Ostagar wasn't really Loghain's fault. Apparently, Cailan wasn't as confident as he seems when the player meets him, and actually thought a victory was really unlikely. Knowing that, Loghain's betrayal actually looks like a rational move (as opposed to a lame excuse to create an "evil betrayer" kind of enemy).
- Secondly, it also seems that Cailan was thinking about kicking Anora out to marry Celene I, the Empress of Orlais. Arl Eamon was at least supporting the idea.

The first point is kind of silly to be honest. I mean, we meet a King who seems eager to fight the darkspawn, and who is disappointed cause he thinks it's not a true Blight, but according to RtO, he was actually pretty much convinced victory was impossible. Err, yeah?
Even Duncan seemed somewhate confident that the Blight could be stopped at Ostagar, and now we're being told that it was clear from the very beginning that Ostagar was likely going to be a failure.

There again, I blame poor writting on Bioware's part. I think they didn't have a grand picture of the plot when they started to work on the game, and are changing it as they see fit as time goes. That makes for several contradictions and incoherences throughout the game.

[Centurion1]

I sorta liked Cailan to be honest, didnt see him as being a bumbling fool just young. I very much disliked Anora though, that woman was a total pain in the arse.

[frogbeastegg]

Return to Ostogar

So it's one big retcon with an hour's play time and some mediocre loot. How very exciting.

Poor Cailen never stood a chance; considering his genetics and mentor it's a wonder he turned out as well as he did. The prequel book showed that his father was a complete inept bumbling idiot, his mother was a robot without an emotional emulation subroutine, and Loghain was a complete and utter prat. Speaking of which, I retract my earlier comments about Loghain's actions not making sense based on his background. They carry on perfectly from the book because he never makes a jot of sense. If anything he's better in the game.

Tip: don't read the books. Unlike the Mass Effect ones, they're awful and add nothing at all except facepalm material.

[gaelic cowboy]

So it's one big retcon with an hour's play time and some mediocre loot. How very exciting.

Poor Cailen never stood a chance; considering his genetics and mentor it's a wonder he turned out as well as he did. The prequel book showed that his father was a complete inept bumbling idiot, his mother was a robot without an emotional emulation subroutine, and Loghain was a complete and utter prat. Speaking of which, I retract my earlier comments about Loghain's actions not making sense based on his background. They carry on perfectly from the book because he never makes a jot of sense. If anything he's better in the game.

Tip: don't read the books. Unlike the Mass Effect ones, they're awful and add nothing at all except facepalm material.

I was half thinking of getting this but reading the comments here I think I will pass I was gonna get summit for the 360 an I fancied an RPG looks like I gotta wait till ME3 or that Alan Wake

[Meneldil]

Tip: don't read the books. Unlike the Mass Effect ones, they're awful and add nothing at all except facepalm material.

Too late, I already read the Stolen Throne and still plan on reading the second one.

Fanboys kill me honestly. If you go by the comments of people on bioware social website, you get the impression that DAO books are the new parangons of fantasy, better than Tolkien, Salvador, Hobb, Martin and Eddings altogether. Then you read the book and you're like

[Centurion1]

I nominate Halo books as being the best ever books based off a video game, with splinter cell a close second. (though im not sure of that order)

[rajpoot]

The second book is better than the first one. In fact I'd read the second one first.
Nowhere near brilliant or anything, but it's OK stuff if you liked the story of the games.
Furthermore, reading the second one will tell a bit about the Architect....which is something to do while one waits for DA:Awakening.

One of the few gripes I had with the first book was that they never clearly mentioned the numbers of the armies save for once.....I mean what is the count of a 'legion' in the Dragon Age world?

[Centurion1]

hard question because it often depended on the ruler. at the time of constantine he shrunk legions sizes considerably so no one general got too much power.

[frogbeastegg]

I was half thinking of getting this but reading the comments here I think I will pass I was gonna get summit for the 360 an I fancied an RPG looks like I gotta wait till ME3 or that Alan Wake

For all its flaws and disappointments, Dragon Age is still very much worth playing if you like the older school of Bioware RPGs. Just don't expect much from the plot; it's the combat and the party members' dialogue which carry the game.

Fanboys kill me honestly. If you go by the comments of people on bioware social website, you get the impression that DAO books are the new parangons of fantasy, better than Tolkien, Salvador, Hobb, Martin and Eddings altogether. Then you read the book and you're like

Oh, I don't know. Eddings and Salvador are awful; I thought they were childish, simplistic nonsense when I was 14. Stolen Throne can happily sit beside them. The other three get frog ratings of good but flawed and on a 6 book long downward spiral (Hobb), very good if infuriatingly slow at writing (Martin), and good but better on a re-read and when read more widely than LotR (Tolkien), so yes, the comparisons that way make my mind boggle.

One of the few gripes I had with the first book was that they never clearly mentioned the numbers of the armies save for once.....I mean what is the count of a 'legion' in the Dragon Age world?

In generic fantasy land legion often means 1,000 soldiers. I took it to be around that number, firstly as DA is generic fantasy, secondly as its world and infrastructure can't cope with massive armies, and thirdly it fits in with the kinds of numbers we saw in the game's major battles.

[rajpoot]

So, why does the new Dragon Age comic here (called Revelation), have Morrigan and Alistair referring to the Warden as her? That's so biased! I mean one place in the games peripheral stuff where the Warden is actually referenced to and he's a her......

[frogbeastegg]

So, why does the new Dragon Age comic here (called Revelation), have Morrigan and Alistair referring to the Warden as her? That's so biased! I mean one place in the games peripheral stuff where the Warden is actually referenced to and he's a her......

Why does the Mass Effect out-of-game material always refer to Shepard as a him? That's so biased!

Why does the KOTOR out-of-game material always refer to you-know-who as a him? That's so biased!

Why does the Jade Empire out-of-game material always refer to the player character as a him? That's so biased!

Why does the Neverwinter Nights out-of-game material always refer to the hero as a him? That's so biased!

Why does the Baldur's Gate series out-of-game material always refer to the Bhaalspawn as a him? That's so biased!

And so on.

Maybe Bioware decided that the sizeable portion of their audience who play as female characters deserved a nod instead of the usual hand wave and 'oops your characters are not real' treatment?

If you don't like it, imagine the word is spelled differently. It's what some of us have had to do for years.

[Beskar]

Froggy has caught you now and she is not going to let you go.

I personally dislike actually calling people "him or her" for pretty much that reason, unfortunately, we don't really have the word in the English language which is gender neutral, hence I always say "They".


*Some one is talking about Froggy*
Me: "I think they are a very good moderator." or "I think their posts are a excellent contribution." etc

Unfortunately, when it comes to people with English as a second language and some native English speakers, they are completely confused and think 'frogbeastegg' represents a collective of people who moderate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they

[rajpoot]

Wow.....

I'm not a chauvinist all right.......it's just that like you said, most games do have male characters as canon....so guess it felt odd to see a 'her'.

So did not mean to offend the ladies on the Org.

[frogbeastegg]

think 'frogbeastegg' represents a collective of people who moderate.

Uh oh, the secret's out! :runs to the frog cave to begin emergency measures!:

With Bioware's earlier games I tended to play a male character because female ones had reduced or inferior content, or were just faintly embarrassing. Around KOTOR they started to improve, and finally with ME, ME2 and DA:O they have drawn even with their male counterparts in terms of content. Now we have - after 12 years - a real official female lead.

Can I swap Miss Official Warden for an official female Shepard? The Warden's such a bland character and the female version of Shepard is widely acknowledged to be miles better than the male thanks to the voice acting. Jennifer Hale is one of the best in the business.

Actually, thinking about the subject, Shepard is flat out the best female character in any game. She's a person first and always; the fact she's female is incidental instead of the defining factor. She does the same things as the male Shepard in much the same way but with a certain touch that's different, she doesn't pose or walk like a model, she doesn't have inflated proportions or a sex appeal outfit, and she doesn't even wear make up unless you choose to! That last is a minor miracle in and of itself; I can only think of a single other major female character (where graphical capability permits) who is not plastered with make up and that's the original Joanna Dark, before the hideous makeover. The Joanna who appeared in the original publicity and N64 game was very different to the one used for the launch publicity, 360 game and forthcoming remake.

[Scienter]

Actually, thinking about the subject, Shepard is flat out the best female character in any game. She's a person first and always; the fact she's female is incidental instead of the defining factor. She does the same things as the male Shepard in much the same way but with a certain touch that's different, she doesn't pose or walk like a model, she doesn't have inflated proportions or a sex appeal outfit, and she doesn't even wear make up unless you choose to!

Agreed! I was so happy to find out that Jennifer Hale was voicing Shepard for ME2, I was really impressed with her in ME1.

[Crandaeolon]

Actually, thinking about the subject, Shepard is flat out the best female character in any game. She's a person first and always...

What a profoundly amazing coincidence, just half an hour ago I was discussing Shepard vs. Warden with my betrothed. She's played DA:O, ME and ME2 and thinks that the Warden is a much more interesting character because of the room she is allowed to grow into, whereas Shepard is "emotionless, bland and rigid, always the same tough gal regardless of choices made in the game." My position is that Shepard is a soldier first and foremost, a more defined character, yes, but one that the story can delve into in a more profound manner. The Warden is more of a template, not really a "character" as far as traditional methods of storytelling would imply.

[Meneldil]

Well, it's hard for the warden to compete, in all honestly, simply for the fact he or she doesn't talk, whereas Shepard does. That gives quite some weight to the character.

I went back to ME after unlocking all DA:O achievements, and boy how I was surprised to hear the main character talking. A joke is much more effective if it said by someone rather than read on a screen. Plus the voice acting is actually pretty good, even in french.

[rajpoot]

It's been officially announced that Oghren is the returning companion in Awakening and not Alistair (who'd most likely be returning but not as a companion).

[Mailman653]

Dragon Age 2?

[rajpoot]

To hell with the graphics! And who knows they might've been working on Dragon Age 2 parallel with DA:O, kind of like CA people do with Total War titles....great great news

[Secura]

Around KOTOR they started to improve, and finally with ME, ME2 and DA:O they have drawn even with their male counterparts in terms of content. Now we have - after 12 years - a real official female lead.

Can I swap Miss Official Warden for an official female Shepard? The Warden's such a bland character and the female version of Shepard is widely acknowledged to be miles better than the male thanks to the voice acting. Jennifer Hale is one of the best in the business.

Actually, thinking about the subject, Shepard is flat out the best female character in any game. She's a person first and always; the fact she's female is incidental instead of the defining factor. She does the same things as the male Shepard in much the same way but with a certain touch that's different, she doesn't pose or walk like a model, she doesn't have inflated proportions or a sex appeal outfit, and she doesn't even wear make up unless you choose to! That last is a minor miracle in and of itself; I can only think of a single other major female character (where graphical capability permits) who is not plastered with make up and that's the original Joanna Dark, before the hideous makeover. The Joanna who appeared in the original publicity and N64 game was very different to the one used for the launch publicity, 360 game and forthcoming remake.

I'm Commander Shepard, and this is my favourite post in the thread.

Seriously though, Shepard as a female lead is fantastic, and it's great that Dragon Age: Origins material is suggesting that a female Warden is canon. When was the last time an RPG did this, though? Knights of the Old Republic II has a canon female lead in The Exile, but when you consider the flaws of the game and storyline against the original (such is the bane of a rushed release), it doesn't really hold as much weight for me as Commander Shepard.

I'm a fan of just about any game that Jennifer Hale puts her vocal talents to, and still think a canon female Shepard would've been a better choice than the sometimes bland delivery of Mark Meer. Cam Clarke is one of my favourite male vocalists for games; gotta love the hammyness. :P

Any representation for women that isn't portrayed by unrealistic body proportions (like Lara could perform all those athletic somersaults without a damn good sports bra) or a stripperific outfit (Bayonetta for example) is great; it shows that developers are finally considering the female gamer. Since the release of the Wii (ugh) and games becoming available to a wider market, I get a lot less "oh, you play video games" than I did back in college when Beskie and I cut class to play Battlefront II. xD

[Centurion1]

You know secura i completely agree with you. i hate scantily clad video game characters. i dont find it "hot" and i would much rather prefer a women who actually wears armor instead of defying the laws of nature and blocking a sword stroke with her near naked breasts. I couldnt stand playing morrigan and always made her a arcane warrior so she could wear armor.

[Secura]

I couldnt stand playing morrigan and always made her a arcane warrior so she could wear armor.

I actually liked Morrigan's outfit, because it suited her life in the Korcari Wilds and her overall character as a shapeshifter. She doesn't need to be encumbered by robes or chainmail if she's going to transform into a spider or fling spells around, after all, and where would she even procure such clothing from anyway? That and I loved the reaction that her outfit garnered from Leiliana and Oghren; the indignant tone in Claudia Black's retorts regarding the perverts is fantastic.

On the other hand, I dislike the outfit of... say Ivy in Soul Calibur. Her outfit may be as stripperific as Morrigan's, but Ivy's supposed to be an up-close-and-personal kinda gal, stabbing/whipping the living daylights out of her opponents, but her scantily-clad form (and ridiculous proportions) would realistically have no real protective qualities at all.

They may both be fanservice outfits, but at least Morrigan's makes some sense.