Low Gaul morale

[Power2the1]

The cavalry issue will also remedied (forgot to mention that!). The Celts were a culture with a big focus on horses. When I was redoin the units, I could not understand why they had just 2 horse types (under different names) to be found. Maybe its a RTW limitation on the EDU slots, not sure. However in EB2 you'll have a larger selection of horses and these will do the Celts proud for sure.

On a historical cavalry related note that some of y'all might be interested in, I was reading the archeological discoveries at Alesia, in French, but enough was apparent. There are some interesting horses found there, skeletons of course. Apparently the Gaul had some of the larger breeds that were found outside of the Celtic regions, like found in Italy, Scythia, etc...but bones to those horses were few and far between which denote these were valuable perhaps, and not readily offered up. Next came the Gallic ponies, the small Iron Age breeds that are common and much smaller than modern breeds (yet maintain the stamina and energy of the larger ones, and incredibly disease resistant in comparison to them). Also found were even smaller horses that are found east of the Rhine only, which denote trade with the Germanic, or Celto-Germanics living there. I hope the similar sizes can be used in game. We'll have to see...

I think that some of the stats for EB1 might have been focused on the Gallic War, perhaps. In EB2 Arverni and Aedui will not/shouldnot be at war in the beginning of EB2. That would not have happened until sometime after 121 B.C. I was entertaining an idea that perhaps a script can be written for the Gallic Civil Wars or, well, Inter Tribal warfare (for the politically correct out there) to occur under certain situations, say both of them have 'x' number of provinces or something...

[athanaric]

The cavalry issue will also remedied (forgot to mention that!). The Celts were a culture with a big focus on horses. When I was redoin the units, I could not understand why they had just 2 horse types (under different names) to be found. Maybe its a RTW limitation on the EDU slots, not sure. However in EB2 you'll have a larger selection of horses and these will do the Celts proud for sure.

Sounds like the Gauls will change a lot.

On a historical cavalry related note that some of y'all might be interested in, I was reading the archeological discoveries at Alesia, in French, but enough was apparent. There are some interesting horses found there, skeletons of course. Apparently the Gaul had some of the larger breeds that were found outside of the Celtic regions, like found in Italy, Scythia, etc...but bones to those horses were few and far between which denote these were valuable perhaps, and not readily offered up. Next came the Gallic ponies, the small Iron Age breeds that are common and much smaller than modern breeds (yet maintain the stamina and energy of the larger ones, and incredibly disease resistant in comparison to them). Also found were even smaller horses that are found east of the Rhine only, which denote trade with the Germanic, or Celto-Germanics living there. I hope the similar sizes can be used in game. We'll have to see...

All Under Heaven features Steppe "Ponies", maybe you guys can share them?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

On the cavalry comparison - time for some facts. With all reforms having kicked in, Gauls and Germans in EB I are about equal when it comes to cavalry.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

;69
type             germanic cavalry ridoharjoz
dictionary       germanic_cavalry_ridoharjoz      ; Ridanz
category         cavalry
class            light
voice_type       General_1
soldier          germanic_cavalry_ridoharjoz_komataihippeis, 25, 0, 1
officer          ebofficer_germanic_standardbearer
mount            light horse
mount_effect     elephant -2, chariot +2
attributes       sea_faring, hide_improved_forest, hardy, cantabrian_circle
formation        1.8, 4, 3, 6, 4, square
stat_health      1, 1
stat_pri         8, 27, javelin, 31.5, 4, thrown, simple, piercing, spear, 10 ,1
stat_pri_attr    thrown
stat_sec         9, 27, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear, 0 ,0.15
stat_sec_attr    no
stat_pri_armour  4, 12, 3, flesh
stat_sec_armour  0, 0, flesh
stat_heat        3
stat_ground      0, 0, -2, 0
stat_mental      13, impetuous, trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay  0
stat_food        60, 300
stat_cost        1, 2745, 686, 60, 80, 2745
ownership        germans, slave, romans_julii, saba, romans_brutii, numidia, macedon, thrace, greek_cities, egypt, carthage, romans_scipii

;496
type             germanic cavalry marhathegnoz
dictionary       germanic_cavalry_marhathegnoz      ; Marhathegnoz
category         cavalry
class            heavy
voice_type       General_1
soldier          celtic_cavalry_brihentin_remimairepos_lavotuxri_marhathegnoz, 25, 0, 1
mount            medium horse
mount_effect     elephant -4, chariot +2
attributes       sea_faring, hide_forest, hardy
formation        1.5, 4, 3, 6, 4, square
stat_health      1, 1
stat_pri         6, 30, no, 0, 0, melee, siege, piercing, spear, 160 ,0.33
stat_pri_attr    ap
stat_sec         12, 15, no, 0, 0, melee, blade, slashing, sword, 0 ,0.225
stat_sec_attr    no
stat_pri_armour  11, 11, 2, metal
stat_sec_armour  0, 0, flesh
stat_heat        4
stat_ground      0, 0, -2, 0
stat_mental      16, disciplined, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay  0
stat_food        60, 300
stat_cost        1, 4034, 1009, 95, 444, 4034
ownership        germans

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

;58
type             celtic skirmisher cavalry leuce epos
dictionary       celtic_skirmisher_cavalry_leuce_epos      ; Leuce Epos
category         cavalry
class            missile
voice_type       General_1
soldier          celtic_cavalry_leuceepos_equitesgallovrum, 25, 0, 1
mount            medium horse
mount_effect     elephant -2, chariot +2
attributes       sea_faring, hide_improved_forest, very_hardy
formation        2, 4, 4, 6, 5, square
stat_health      1, 1
stat_pri         4, 30, javelin, 55, 8, thrown, simple, piercing, spear, 10 ,1
stat_pri_attr    thrown
stat_sec         3, 30, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear, 160 ,0.33
stat_sec_attr    ap
stat_pri_armour  5, 11, 2, flesh
stat_sec_armour  0, 0, flesh
stat_heat        2
stat_ground      0, 0, -3, -1
stat_mental      11, impetuous, trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay  0
stat_food        60, 300
stat_cost        1, 1983, 496, 40, 60, 1983
ownership        gauls, scythia, slave, britons, germans, romans_julii, romans_brutii, romans_scipii, numidia, macedon, thrace, greek_cities, egypt, carthage, spain, dacia, pontus, parthia, armenia, saba

;17
type             celtic cavalry brihentin
dictionary       celtic_cavalry_brihentin      ; Brihentin
category         cavalry
class            heavy
voice_type       General_1
soldier          celtic_cavalry_brihentin_remimairepos_lavotuxri_marhathegnoz, 25, 0, 1
officer          ebofficer_celtic_standardbearer
mount            heavy horse
mount_effect     elephant -4, chariot +2
attributes       sea_faring, hide_forest, hardy
formation        1.5, 4, 3, 6, 4, square
stat_health      1, 1
stat_pri         4, 30, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear, 160 ,0.33
stat_pri_attr    ap
stat_sec         9, 15, no, 0, 0, melee, blade, slashing, sword, 0 ,0.225
stat_sec_attr    no
stat_pri_armour  11, 9, 2, metal
stat_sec_armour  0, 0, flesh
stat_heat        4
stat_ground      0, 0, -3, -1
stat_mental      13, disciplined, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay  0
stat_food        60, 300
stat_cost        1, 3100, 775, 95, 444, 3100
ownership        gauls, scythia, britons, slave, thrace, greek_cities, egypt, spain, seleucid, saba, pontus, armenia

Suebi cavalry units are a little stronger in melee than the standard Gallic ones, but Gauls have acccess to Belgae cavalry.

[Cute Wolf]

Hey, you forgot about swordsmen! Gauls get swords earlier than germans, and they come in greater numbers.

Too bad AI doesn't use those swordsmen enough, but focus on Lugoae. I mean, Bataroas are one of the few gaul units that are actually match for Swebos infantry, but now they just rout with the rest of the army. Stupid AI!

Um.... maybe I forgot about it.... BTW, Germanic heavy infantry also available as mercs, so talking about wider and easier to get....
BTW, Sweboz got bigger swords (marshikoi Lugii), the only celts that outshine them are Kluddargos, and they are only in Brits.... BTW, talking about the hyper insanity Gaesatae.... I think I really forgot to mention it... sorry.... (because most of the time, my Medikikas allready take care the most of them)

German and Celto-German cavalry are also more of a skirmisher and "anti-cavalry" unit than the more general-use Leuce Epos (Celto-German cavalry can wipe out Roman bodyguards for example) however, they don't do as well charging against infantry
They're also a bit more expensive

Talking about cost-effectiveness, not per unit power, Gallic cavalry wins..... Reidonez is good at melee too, but they can't really hurt in a single charge (where the leuce epos can), and don't forget, the Brihentin are quite cheaper than their germanic counterparts... not talking about Remi Mairepos and their Gallic cavalry general...

I disagree completely. The Sweboz outshine the Gauls in regular line troops to a certain extent, but not by very much. The Northern Gallic swordsmen can stand up to any line unit the Sweboz produce, while the top-tier armored units like the Carnutes, the Solduri, and the Arverni Arjos are clearly superior to the Sweboz top-tier and line units, not to mention the Gaestae. Cavalry-wise, the sweboz are at a dsiadvantage to the Gauls obviously. Why the Sweboz are so dominant over the Gauls is that they can produce better-quality cheaper troops, and also obviously produce better spearmen and lower-end units. The Gauls have the ability to produce better troops, but economic restraints and AI stupidity tend to hold them back. The Sweboz have the same AI stupidity and economic restraints, but the cheap units that they produce are superior to the cheap Gallic units.

Yeah.... Sweboz units are really bang for the bucks... if you try to use the Gallic Swordsmen everywhere in early-mid campaign, your economy will simply broke up....

[athanaric]

I disagree completely. The Sweboz outshine the Gauls in regular line troops to a certain extent, but not by very much. The Northern Gallic swordsmen can stand up to any line unit the Sweboz produce,

The standard Germanic swordsmen are significantly better in terms of quality, they just suffer from smaller unit size and poor javelin range.
Compare:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

;66
type             celtic infantry bataroas
dictionary       celtic_infantry_bataroas      ; Bataroas
category         infantry
class            heavy
voice_type       General_1
soldier          celtic_infantry_bataroas_northerncuroas, 50, 0, 1.1
officer          ebofficer_celtic_officer
officer          ebofficer_celtic_standardbearer
mount_effect     elephant -2, chariot +2
attributes       sea_faring, hide_improved_forest, very_hardy
formation        1.2, 1.6, 2.4, 3.2, 4, square
stat_health      1, 1
stat_pri         6, 8, javelin, 35, 2, thrown, simple, piercing, spear, 10 ,1
stat_pri_attr    prec, thrown
stat_sec         10, 8, no, 0, 0, melee, blade, slashing, sword, 0 ,0.225
stat_sec_attr    no
stat_pri_armour  5, 12, 3, flesh
stat_sec_armour  0, 0, flesh
stat_heat        2
stat_ground      0, 0, 1, -1
stat_mental      11, impetuous, trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay  0
stat_food        60, 300
stat_cost        1, 1503, 376, 196, 374, 1503
ownership        gauls, scythia, slave

;73
type             germanic infantry sahsnotoz
dictionary       germanic_infantry_sahsnotoz      ; Herunautoz 
category         infantry
class            heavy
voice_type       General_1
soldier          germanic_infantry_sahsnotoz_pictones_cherusciiswordsmen, 40, 0, 1.15
officer          ebofficer_germanic_standardbearer
mount_effect     elephant -4
attributes       sea_faring, hide_improved_forest, very_hardy
formation        0.85, 1.2, 1.4, 2, 4, square
stat_health      1, 1
stat_pri         7, 8, javelin, 30, 2, thrown, simple, piercing, spear, 10 ,1
stat_pri_attr    prec, thrown
stat_sec         11, 8, no, 0, 0, melee, blade, slashing, sword, 0 ,0.225
stat_sec_attr    no
stat_pri_armour  5, 13, 3, flesh
stat_sec_armour  0, 0, flesh
stat_heat        2
stat_ground      0, 0, 1, 0
stat_mental      13, impetuous, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 40
stat_fire_delay  0
stat_food        60, 300
stat_cost        1, 1646, 412, 50, 70, 1646
ownership        germans, slave, romans_julii, romans_brutii, numidia, macedon, thrace, greek_cities, egypt, carthage, spain, dacia, parthia, armenia, pontus, seleucid, saba

The Gauls have the ability to produce better troops, but economic restraints and AI stupidity tend to hold them back. The Sweboz have the same AI stupidity and economic restraints,

Gallic economy/infrastructure is way better than Swêboz economy. Paved roads, univerities, better farms, hero tombs, for starters (Gallic economy is almost equal to that of Hayasdan).

but the cheap units that they produce are superior to the cheap Gallic units.

That's true.

Cavalry-wise, the sweboz are at a disadvantage to the Gauls obviously.

No.
See my post above.

and don't forget, the Brihentin are quite cheaper than their germanic counterparts

And weaker, accordingly.

not talking about Remi Mairepos

As expensive and strong as the Germanic guys.

if you try to use the Gallic Swordsmen everywhere in early-mid campaign, your economy will simply broke up....

Besides, it wouldn't be very realistic.