LEN Teh Footy God's Footballodium

[Secura]

Tomorrow's games should be great! Man Utd - Bayern I think will be very tense. Bordeaux still has a shot, but we blew it last week.

Honestly, whichever team wins and progresses from the semi-final, be it Bayern/United or Lyon/Bordeaux, I don't envy them at all; Barcelona are on fantastic form and Inter Milan, while they've got everything stacked against them, seem pretty solid at the back. I think Mourinho might simply shut up shop and try and catch them on the counter.

[naut]

Being in NZ I haven't seen it yet. Disappointing to go out, but if you are going to out against anyone you don't mind if it is the best team in the world. Saw the line-up, and instantly saw why Messi must have been allowed so much space. Silvestre was playing (rubbish player) and Song injured. Messi was silent in the 1st Leg, so did he find his skill or did he just get the space and time up against Silvestre/Denilson? Or a bit of both?

I would agree though that this is all about 'who can stop Barcelona'.

If anyone can it's a Mourinho side. He's got the defensive nous to stop them.

[Sarmatian]

Barca shouldn't have too much trouble with Arsenal

Man, it's getting embarrassing being always right. It's like they can put any 11 players on the pitch and still kick the poop out of anyone. Watch out fellows, in Messi we might just be watching the best football player of all time.

I got Barca and Inter and wouldn't mind if ze Germans prove me wrong on the second one and knock Man Utd out.

[Secura]

in Messi we might just be watching the best football player of all time.

Maradona, Best, Pele, Zidane, Ronaldo (Brazilian one)... all better than Messi in their day, in my opinion.

He's a massive attacking threat, but he's not a complete all-round player in the mould of Xavi, Fabregas or Rooney.

[Sarmatian]

Maradona, Best, Pele, Zidane, Ronaldo (Brazilian one)... all better than Messi in their day, in my opinion.

He's a massive attacking threat, but he's not a complete all-round player in the mould of Xavi, Fabregas or Rooney.

Well, he's not there yet, but if continues to perform like this, anything's possible. He's still very young.

It's hard to define what an "all-round" player is. He might not have have the passing ability of Xavi or Fabregas but they don't have his technical ability, his speed and agility or his composure in front of the goal. In that aspect, they're not "all-round" players. It's complicated further since we're comparing midfielders in this case with a winger/striker.

On the other hand, if you're trying to tell me that Rooney is better than Messi, I just might have a heart attack laughing and you might be responsible for my untimely departure from this world at this tender age when I still have so much to offer to my fellow humans.

[Secura]

On the other hand, if you're trying to tell me that Rooney is better than Messi, I just might have a heart attack laughing and you might be responsible for my untimely departure from this world at this tender age when I still have so much to offer to my fellow humans.

I suppose that I just don't rate Messi as highly as other people; from what I'm told, he doesn't really "turn up" for Argentina, and as far as playing for Barcelona goes... Rooney, Drogba or Torres could have scored four playing with Xavi et al against that Arsenal defence, don't you think?

As is goes, a player like Rooney or Drogba would flourish in the Spanish league (especially Didier Diver), whereas Messi wouldn't last a month playing against Premier League sides week-in, week-out.

[johnhughthom]

Messi wouldn't last a month playing against Premier League sides week-in, week-out.

You know I totally disagree with that, I think Messi would thrive in English football. Pity he'll never leave Barca.

[Secura]

I think Messi would thrive in English football.

Seriously? He goes to ground if someone even breathes on him, how would he cope playing the Boltons, Blackburns and Stokes of English football, getting six shades kicked out of him every week? Factor in the English lifestyle (he seems religious and chided Ronaldinho's lifestyle when he was at Barca) and weather... I disagree.

[johnhughthom]

He goes down because that's the culture he's been brought up in, to us Brits it's blatant cheating to most of the rest of Europe it's part of the game. Look at how Ronaldo thrived in his last few years at United when he cut down on the theatrics and concentrated on football, I think a couple of years in the Premier League would make Messi an even better player. He has strength and balance, he just doesn't always choose to use it, I have seen many occasions where he has been under pressure from a bigger guy but hasn't gone down as he thinks he can do more damage staying on his feet.


edit: oooh, drama at the Theatre of Prawns. I knew that fool of a commentator on ITV spoke too soon at 3-0. It's his fault if Utd go out.

edit 2: Oh my Jeebus, what a goal.

[gaelic cowboy]

UEFA wont be pleased no English team in last four big money loss there for the tv lark

[Secura]

UEFA wont be pleased no English team in last four big money loss there for the tv lark

UEFA might not be pleased, but Platini will; he hates English clubs. Same with the fat German guy in charge of FIFA.

[johnhughthom]

UEFA might not be pleased, but Platini will; he hates English clubs. Same with the fat German guy in charge of FIFA.

Sepp Blatter is Swiss.

[Secura]

Sepp Blatter is Swiss.

Fat Swiss guy then! :P

[johnhughthom]

The Germans are responsible for many of the worlds evils, but even they should not be falsely held accountable for Sepp Blatter...

[Secura]

The Germans are responsible for many of the worlds evils, but even they should not be falsely held accountable for Sepp Blatter...

I never really understood just why Blatter and Platini dislike English football so much.

Anyone care to enlighten me?

[Louis VI the Fat]

I never really understood just why Blatter and Platini dislike English football so much.

Anyone care to enlighten me?

The answer would be a counter-question: Why are the British tabloids xenophobe, and assume the rest of the world is out to take something away from the UK?

I never get the impression Platini doesn't dislike English clubs. He is simply worried about Big Money ruining the game. Is it fun to have the same eight clubs play the CL quarter finals each and every year? Or for that matter, is the PL all the better for the dominance of the Big Four?


Not that I remotely care about football. Evil forces conspired to grant Lyon an undeserved penalty last game, and withheld Bordeaux a clear penalty this game. Then we ended up one goal short. *nag nag nag*

Go Bayern!

[Secura]

Why are the British tabloids xenophobe, and assume the rest of the world is out to take something away from the UK?

That's probably a question for the Backroom, but in all honesty, it's tabloids, what do you expect? :P

I never get the impression Platini doesn't dislike English clubs.

Double negative, treacle, but I understand what you mean... but ultimately, is the worst monetary offender not Real Madrid? The team that purchased Kaká for a world record fee of £56,000,000, only to break it within a week or so by purchasing Cristiano for £80,000,000?

Compare that to Manchester United (£30.75m for Berbatov), Chelsea (£30.8m for Shevchenko), Liverpool (~£25m for Torres) and Manchester City (£32.5m for Robinho)... so why hasn't Madrid drawn the ire that the British clubs have?

Or for that matter, is the PL all the better for the dominance of the Big Four?

Like Ligue 1, where Lyon dominated for years and snapped up all the best players? The Scottish Premier League which looks to be staying with Rangers for a while now? Serie A where Inter Milan are without peer following the match fixing scandal in 2006? LIGA BBVA where it's always a two-horse race between Barcelona and Real Madrid?

I think the Premier League is a much more open affair, this season proves that considering the amount of games that the 'Big Four' have all lost compared to previous seasons. It's going to be closer still over the next few seasons; I don't think you can say that for La Liga.

[naut]

True Secura. The Liga BBVA is not without its monetary problems. The other thing to remember is that it has the same system as Scotland. There are only 2 clubs who will ever win the League, or cups. And as a result all the money will perpetually end up in their hands. France has always been volatile. But, Italy and Germany historically were always dominated by a few clubs, it's a little more variable these days. Untold Arsenal ran a good piece the other day:

Reporting on football off the field from foreign parts can be difficult because although people say things one never quite knows if the person is a serious commentator of a Harry Redknapp. So, I might well be shot down on some of this, but here’s a couple of quotes that the Guardian ran recently.

José María Gay, apparently a leading expert on football finance in Spain and an adviser to Uefa said, “La Liga is dying.”

The Osasuna president, Patxi Izco, said: “I fear a financial meltdown.”

The point is that Spain, like England, spends loads of dosh that the clubs don’t have on transfers, and then defends what is going on by saying “we’re a big organisation, so we spend big money.” Which is a bit like saying, “I have a big house, so of course I have a big mortgage.”

The one has nothing to do with the other. The issue in both cases is, “when are you going to pay off your debts?”

The answer is, silence.

Last year, as you may recall, Barcelona won all the big trophies they went in for. Barca have debts of €350m. So you might think a year of utter triumph might result in paying off some of the debt. I mean, if you can’t pay the debts down when you have won everything, when do you?

Unfortunately despite winning everything they only made a profit last year of €8m. Which is good but not that good when you have done everything right, and can’t do any more. If it is 8 million in your best possible year, what do you do when the other guys win?

And Barca, remember, are the good guys. Real Mad, are, well, Real Mad. They signed players to the value of over €250m last year and justified some of it with the most insane comment in the history of football finance. They would, their president said, pay for it in shirt sales.

What President Pérez didn’t add was that what he actually did was to take out another €150m worth of debt. And they are running at a loss. And (according to the Guardian) they are selling fewer shirts than Liverpool and Chelsea. The crowds are down 7%, and the debt although not on the Man U scale, is up there with the loonies. It is €683m.

In the 1990s, Spain passed a law making clubs become plcs, except Real Mad, Barcelona, Athletic Bilbao and Osasuna. The idea was to wipe out the insane debts that were destroying football in Spain because the top men in each club would now be risking the company’s money, and mismanagement could bring the company down. It seems to have had little effect.




Just as with Arsenal, as everywhere else, many fans are not patient, and do not value profit. All they want, is to win stuff, no matter what the cost.

Valencia’s debt is over €600m and an unfinished new stadium where building work has stopped, and have just set up a new share issue of 95m to try and help themselves through.

Real Mad sold their training ground for €450m to wipe out their debts. Now they have more debts. Atlético Madrid have debts of over €300m. Deportivo La Coruña have debts of over €120m. Mallorca are on the edge of administration. Villareal have not paid their players. Celta Vigo and Real Sociedad have gone into administration – but there’s no 9 point penalty for this in Spain. Instead they have had the Beckham Law which means foreigners pay less tax than locals. (Although there are plans to cut that law).

Overall Spanish football’s debt is reported by the Guardian to be €3.5bn. The Spanish federation owe the players’ union €6.8m and the union says that clubs owe €100m in unpaid wages. Atlético owe Revenue and Customs in Spain €15m.

Platini says there are five or six top-flight Spanish clubs in danger, but they are finding interesting ways of hanging on. In England we are used to local councils treating their football clubs with contempt – none of us can forget what the local council did to Wimbledon when they were in the first division, and although Everton have been singularly inept in their dealings with the local authority (questioning the right of democratically elected councillors to make decisions about planning applications is not a clever way to curry favour) they still hope and wait and wait and hope to get planning permission. Getting the council to pay for the stadium is well, not on. (Unless you are Man City).

In Spain it is not like that. When Sporting Gijón went into administration, the local council bought their “brand image” to enable to club to keep going.

But ultimately the problem in Spain is that they have seen Scottish football, and instead of seeing it as a warning, they have seen it as a blueprint. “Let’s have two big clubs that always win all the time,” they said, “and let everyone else sink into the quicksand. That’s a great idea.”

Yes, well…

Just as in Scotland the system is there, and you are stuck with it. Short of a multi-billionaire investing in a small club (and why on earth should they?) the system goes on. The same two clubs make the news, get the coverage, earn the cash, build up the debts.

The big two do their own TV deals and keep the money and… get into more debt. Everyone else gets only a fraction of the big two’s money (10% at most) and…. get into more debt.

There is talk of wage limits just as there is in England. But the chance of implementing it, and then being able to police it, is zero. The chance of reform is zero. And the two giants (which utterly dominate every aspect of football in Spain) are as insanely in debt as every other club.

Welcome to the madhouse.

Tony Attwood

----------

Man, it's getting embarrassing being always right. It's like they can put any 11 players on the pitch and still kick the poop out of anyone. Watch out fellows, in Messi we might just be watching the best football player of all time.

I let your little jibe go when I first saw it. But, no enough is enough. Five key players injured, Fabregas, Gallas, Arshavin, R.vP and Song. That the entire heart of Arsenal. The best five players Arsenal have, all out through injury. And despite that being able to play their game, not resort to physical tactics. Score three past the best team in the world. To go ahead at the Nou Camp. To battle back from two down at Emirates. No. You haven't given Arsenal any credit. And in my 5 years on this board this is the first time I've had to put anyone on ignore.

[Sarmatian]

I let your little jibe go when I first saw it. But, no enough is enough. Five key players injured, Fabregas, Gallas, Arshavin, R.vP and Song. That the entire heart of Arsenal. The best five players Arsenal have, all out through injury. And despite that being able to play their game, not resort to physical tactics. Score three past the best team in the world. To go ahead at the Nou Camp. To battle back from two down at Emirates. No. You haven't given Arsenal any credit. And in my 5 years on this board this is the first time I've had to put anyone on ignore.

This is a joke, right? You're upset because someone likes another team more than your favourite? Because Barcelona didn't have too much trouble with Arsenal as I said???

Will someone send this guy a PM in my name telling him I'm sorry Arsenal lost and that I will write a strong letter to UEFA to demand a rematch.

And since oh, terrible injuries were brought up, it's like people's forgetting that Puyol, Pique and Ibrahimovic didn't play either and that statistics of the first match in England (when Fabregas played) looked like this:

Arsenal Barcelona
2 Goals scored 2
3 Shots on target 11
3 Shots wide 6
5 Yellow cards 1
0 Red cards 1
18 Fouls committed 11
0 Corners 4
2 Ruled offside 4
26' 9'' Possession (time) 42' 12''
38 Possession (%) 62

11 shots on target against 3, 62% possession versus 38%, 4 corners versus none. Cry me a river but Arsenal were outplayed in both matches. So, go ahead and sulk in your own world where no one is allowed to like another team more than Arsenal and where one must mention injuries as the sole reason Arsenal lost.

[Secura]

Will someone send this guy a PM in my name telling him I'm sorry Arsenal lost and that I will write a strong letter to UEFA to demand a rematch.

He can actually still read your posts; when someone is 'ignored', their posts are hidden as though they're in spoiler tags, and they're viewed in the same manner.

And since oh, terrible injuries were brought up, it's like people's forgetting that Puyol, Pique and Ibrahimovic didn't play either and that statistics of the first match in England (when Fabregas played) looked like this:

Puyol and Pique were booked though, correct? They were prevented from playing the return leg, by all accounts, of their own volition; they committed to those tackles, the referee booked them justly and they recieved match bans. Overatedmovic is a different story, I'll agree, but hardly instrumental in the manner of Xavi, Puyol or Messi.

Cry me a river but Arsenal were outplayed in both matches. So, go ahead and sulk in your own world where no one is allowed to like another team more than Arsenal and where one must mention injuries as the sole reason Arsenal lost.

Yes, they were outplayed, but honestly... who can outplay Barcelona? Sure, you can give their defenders a torrid time or lock their strikers down, but the team unit as a whole seems unstoppable, no?

Arsenal's injuries are not the sole reason that they lost, but the principal one, certainly. Arsenal were never going to win with Silvestre in their back four and Bentner up-front, who both wouldn't have played if the first-team choices like Gallas and Arshavin were fit to play. It's a bitter pill to swallow.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Guys, it's just football.

Which, as they say, is not a matter of life and death, but far more important than that. But still just football.

[Secura]

Guys, it's just football.

Which, as they say, is not a matter of life and death, but far more important than that. But still just football.

I've never understood why people can be so derogatory of one another based on the football team they follow.

Anyways, I realise that my dislike of Sepp Blatter is well-founded:

Blatter incurred the ire of women footballers in 2004 when he suggested that women should "wear tighter shorts and low cut shirts... to create a more female aesthetic" and attract more male fans.

That's really something to bring more women into sport, right? ¬_¬

[drone]

I didn't think moderators were allowed by the board software to put anyone on ignore, as it would interfere with their duties. Interesting.

Sepp might be crude and sexist, but he's probably correct. Look at women's beach volleyball, it's one of the most viewed Olympic sports...

[Craterus]

Let's face it. Nobody's watching for the quality of the football.

[Louis VI the Fat]

The whole of Madrid is already looking forward to this year's CL's final, played at Real Mad's Bernabeu stadium.

Real Madrid hardly need reminding that the Champions League final they will host at the Estadio Bernabéu on 22 May is an experience for which gritted teeth and false grins are required. Whichever way they look at it, two teams are going to turn up and make them cringe inside. With Barcelona the reasons are crushingly obvious. But the other contenders are also troubling. Real went on football's most garish shopping project ever with the intention of making the final themselves, but just to twist the knife they must accept that last summer's transfer shenanigans have contributed directly to the success of all the non-Spanish semi-finalists.


Internazionale's shining light has been Wesley Sneijder, a midfield schemer who has brought a new creative dimension to his team from the moment he touched down in Italy. The Dutchman was not considered worthy of Florentino Pérez's new galáctico movement, and Inter bought him from Real for €15m, just over half the sum that the Spaniards had originally paid. Neat work, Inter.


Bayern Munich are similarly grateful for their own Real cast-off, Arjen Robben, who has had the happy knack of delivering moments of audacious technique to propel his new team onwards and upwards in the Champions League, and has become an integral part of a rejuvenated Bundesliga force.
Pérez sold him for €25m, €10m less than Real paid for him. Nice job, Bayern.


Olympique Lyonnais did enough in their home leg against Bordeaux to see them through to an historic place in the last four, and the goals came from their wholehearted Argentinian frontman Lisandro López and Brazilian left footer Michel Bastos. The French club were able to renew their attacking options thanks to the €30m they picked up from Real for Karim Benzema. Smart trading, Lyon.


Lyon also, in case it has slipped anyone's mind, dumped Cristiano Ronaldo, Kaká, Xabi Alonso and company out of this season's competition over two tactially agile matches in the last 16. Now Sneijder and Robben have scored the decisive goals to confirm their club's safe passage to the semi-finals after both these celebrated names had spent several years short of such European prominence. Let's not hold our breath to see if Pérez makes the connection and revises his approach to the next transfer window.

Who needs Platini to clamp down on the madness when the clubs will do it for him?


I've also placed fifty euros, plus my sanity, on Munich beating Lyon in the semis. Gah! To think Bordeaux destroyed the Bayern Lederhosen in October!

[Rhyfelwyr]

Celtic got put out of the cup by Ross County.

It wasn't even a fluke, they were completely outplayed.

For those wondering, Ross County however around the lower divisions, and come from probably the remotest location of any pro/semi-pro team, up in Dingwall with a population of 7,000.

[Secura]

What the Dickens just happened at the DW Stadium? o_o

[johnhughthom]

Poor Pyscho, Arsenal are out of the title race, then they're back in, then they're out, then they're back in, then they're out, then they're back in. Now they're out.

It's nice and simple supporting Sunderland, not being relegated is usually enough for me.

[Secura]

This week's football has been baffling, to say the very least.

[Louis VI the Fat]

What the Dickens just happened at the DW Stadium? o_o

That does it!!

Vermaelen was injured, Lord knows what Fabianski was thinking, and the reserves are consistently found out when put under pressure. This means I am going to have to put you on ignore.