The Revenge of Inishmore! [Concluded]

[Winston Hughes]

Unvote:, Vote: Winston

Pretending you didn't notice my horrific death, eh?

[ULC]

Pretending you didn't notice my horrific death, eh?

Oh *facepalm* I even read the danged write up.

Unvote:, Vote: Subotan.

[Csargo]

Vote:DE

[Niklas]

I don't like the way YLC defended himself yesterday, nor how he got off the hook. Mason eh? vote: YLC

[Winston Hughes]

Oh *facepalm* I even read the danged write up.

I'm sure you did...

[Sasaki Kojiro]

unvote, vote:YLC

Said masons haven't come forward it seems.

[Secura]

vote: Subotan

I see no reason to change my vote from the previous round.

[ULC]

unvote, vote:YLC

Said masons haven't come forward it seems.

That would be because that's X innocents to now target? Why would my partners come forward to kill themselves?

You know what, if the town is insistent on simply suiciding by killing it's power roles, then have at it. if you don't want our help, then so be it.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

The "power" of the mason role comes from the fact that if one of them is up for lynch, the others can vouch for him.

[Secura]

The "power" of the mason role comes from the fact that if one of them is up for lynch, the others can vouch for him.

Does that not then paint them as a target for the mafia?

[ULC]

The "power" of the mason role comes from the fact that if one of them is up for lynch, the others can vouch for him.

No, the power of the mason role is to know that others are innocent. I am not, nor would I ask, my fellow masons to vouch for me publicly. I'm not going to offer the mafia targets Sasaki, and if I go down then that's fine with me, there are others you can't just wontonly accuse of because you don't know them. I mean at what point does it make sense for them to come forward? You want randies to come forward and say that yes I am mason and they are too? How can anyone validate that claim?

Accept that I am a mason, or not, I can't fight it because I'm not putting other innocents in danger just for me.

[Chaotix]

Vote: Subotan

I investigated him and he is mafia.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

No, that's incorrect. The power of the mason role is that it prevents a mislynch.

They didn't kill you even though you claimed mason.

If we just let people off the hook for claiming mason, it would be a great mafia claim.

Having a couple masons killed is no big loss compared to a mislynch. There are roles that it hurts the town much more to have nightkilled, and mislynches are very bad for the town.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Case in point...

unvote, vote:Subotan

[Csargo]

Unvote:DE, Vote:Subotan

[ULC]

Vote: Subotan

I investigated him and he is mafia.

Rather abrupt there.

No, that's incorrect. The power of the mason role is that it prevents a mislynch.

They didn't kill you even though you claimed mason.

If we just let people off the hook for claiming mason, it would be a great mafia claim.

Having a couple masons killed is no big loss compared to a mislynch. There are roles that it hurts the town much more to have nightkilled, and mislynches are very bad for the town.

No, again, it's to have an informed minority on the side of the town, not to prevent a mislynch.

And of course they wouldn't kill me - why bother when they have a town that's downright self-destructive to do it for you? As you said, claiming mason would be a good cover for a mafioso, if it weren't downright stupid to claim it. Are you insulting my intelligence Sasaki?

Case in point...

unvote, vote:Subotan

Oh, so now we vote with the tide :P.

[Secura]

Vote: Subotan

I investigated him and he is mafia.

Really... my gut feeling was right? o_O

[Chaotix]

Really... my gut feeling was right? o_O

No, not really. I was joking.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

No, again, it's to have an informed minority on the side of the town, not to prevent a mislynch.

This is false. Anyone can talk privately in this game, and you always have a few people you think are innocent. The ability to prevent a mislynch is absolutely huge.

And of course they wouldn't kill me - why bother when they have a town that's downright self-destructive to do it for you?

But we aren't going to kill you, because one of your mason partners will claim before you are lynched, right?

As you said, claiming mason would be a good cover for a mafioso, if it weren't downright stupid to claim it. Are you insulting my intelligence Sasaki?

No it isn't a bad claim for mafia.

unvote, vote:YLC

[Niklas]

There are only two alternatives. Either you are truly a mason, and there's no way for us to find out the truth of it since your buddy won't reveal. Or you're a mafia claiming mason, to get off the hook. If you are the former, no great loss for, but you're fighting awfully hard to make it seem that way. Which is more indicative of the latter, I'd say. I'll keep my vote on YLC.

[Renata]

Three dead and one missing might make me less inclined to call YLC on his lack of confirmation than I would otherwise be -- except that it makes his overnight survival even less explicable. Am I really supposed to believe the mafia bypassed killing a claimed mason in favor of several seemingly random targets just so we'd lynch him today? Why? So they gain one mislynch? By the odds we are probably going to mislynch in any case. I don't buy that.

The other option is that they decided to avoid the only obvious target for a doctor role. This I can buy. I think it would be more appropriate to lynch YLC if other power roles are claiming (but no masons) and he keeps living.

Chaotix, you're a lunatic.

[ULC]

No, not really. I was joking.

Not nice.

This is false. Anyone can talk privately in this game, and you always have a few people you think are innocent. The ability to prevent a mislynch is absolutely huge.

But we aren't going to kill you, because one of your mason partners will claim before you are lynched, right?

No it isn't a bad claim for mafia.

unvote, vote:YLC

Sasaki, your specifically targeting me, using some of the weirdest logic yet. First of all, the ability to prevent a mislynch is NOT huge, it's a stupid maneuver that nets the mafia two clean targets. Your point that anyone can talk privately is bogus, you know it - Mason's know for sure they are innocent, while simply chatting with another person or thinking that they are innocent is not the same thing, far from it.

And it is a bad claim for a mafioso, and you know it, especially based upon your logic. No one is going to save me from the lynch, especially not my mason partners, whom I will tell specifically not to say anything, because they are not going to risk their lives. As long as they are alive, they can work together, and act as a block.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Three dead and one missing might make me less inclined to call YLC on his lack of confirmation than I would otherwise be -- except that it makes his overnight survival even less explicable. Am I really supposed to believe the mafia bypassed killing a claimed mason in favor of several seemingly random targets just so we'd lynch him today? Why? So they gain one mislynch? By the odds we are probably going to mislynch in any case. I don't buy that.

Right--and why would they think they could get us to mislynch him when his mason partners could just claim?

Sasaki, your specifically targeting me, using some of the weirdest logic yet. First of all, the ability to prevent a mislynch is NOT huge, it's a stupid maneuver that nets the mafia two clean targets.

At three kills a night, a mislynch means 4 dead townies.

Your point that anyone can talk privately is bogus, you know it - Mason's know for sure they are innocent, while simply chatting with another person or thinking that they are innocent is not the same thing, far from it.

It's a minor difference at best. How do you think pro town networks get started?

And it is a bad claim for a mafioso, and you know it, especially based upon your logic. No one is going to save me from the lynch, especially not my mason partners, whom I will tell specifically not to say anything, because they are not going to risk their lives. As long as they are alive, they can work together, and act as a block.

My logic, which, if it wasn't being argued by me wouldn't have been strongly argued. I don't think it's come up before in a .org game.

You would let yourself be mislynched so that one of your partners isn't killed? This sounds more like an excuse for no one claiming to be your partner, sorry.

[Csargo]

Unvote:Subotan, Vote:Chaotix

[TinCow]

That would be because that's X innocents to now target? Why would my partners come forward to kill themselves?

You know what, if the town is insistent on simply suiciding by killing it's power roles, then have at it. if you don't want our help, then so be it.

I don't care how much spin you put on it, a mason is not a power role.

[Secura]

unvote, vote: Sasaki

[Secura]

Bah, posted prematurely.

Sasaki, why are you pressing for masons to reveal themselves in-thread?

[TinCow]

Bah, posted prematurely.

Sasaki, why are you pressing for masons to reveal themselves in-thread?

The entire point of the mason role is that if one of them is at risk of a lynch, the other can reveal to prevent it. In a game like this where townies cannot do night actions, that's their ONLY purpose.

[Renata]

Why'd you omit the other part of my post, Sasaki?

Secura, I assume it's because reveals out of thread are not permitted.

It's just semantics, really, but in my book masons are among the strongest of power roles; however, I do agree with Sasaki that the ability to avoid a mislynch (otherwise known as cross-confirmation) is a major part of what makes them so powerful. Were this a game with only one kill per night I certainly would be demanding that YLC cough up a partner or two. But it's not.

[Secura]

The entire point of the mason role is that if one of them is at risk of a lynch, the other can reveal to prevent it. In a game like this where townies cannot do night actions, that's their ONLY purpose.

I was just informed that masons are townies who start the game knowing one another are innocent, correct? Either way, I can see the point now and I'm comfortable with that explanation, thank you.

unvote, vote: Chaotix

Why joke lie about being an investigator or having a result on Subotan, treacle?