What are the main things you want to see fixed from EB1 in EB2???

[Lucius Verus]

They already are...

Numidians, Spaniards, Illurians, Tracians, Gaul/Belgians weren't rubbish either in that department, but the Eastern cavalry beats them all...

in EB Pontics didnt have their own cavalry, I mean, Pontus must have their own cavalry and this cavalry unit must available only Pontus

[Mediolanicus]

"Missions" are a part of history. It's tricky to balance gameplay and historical detail. Of course it can't be too historical because it wouldn't allow any interaction. Then it would only be a story.

What do you mean by a story?

The game is all about creating your own history starting from 272BC, not recreating history as it really happened (which would be impossible with the engine and kinda hit the replay value rather hard).

in EB Pontics didnt have their own cavalry, I mean, Pontus must have their own cavalry and this cavalry unit must available only Pontus

In EB Pontos could recruit lots of cavalry units in its provinces. You can be sure those recruited in Pontus consisted out of locally breed horses and Pontic riders.


Of course, other faction that may conquer Pontos can also recruit those same horses and riders...

Excuse me, I also think Micko is overreacting, BUT
people, who are treating every kind of critisism and complaining as childish, always go with the majority, idolise the EB Teams as gods and critisize people only based on their writing skills are also kind of douchebags themselves.

Agreed. As long as the critism is based on something and one doesn't automatically conclude it must have been an oversight, an inconsistence or just plain stupidity to come to another conclusion.

[scutum]

What do you mean by a story?

Story is a common term for a description of a sequence of events.

Game is all about creating your own history starting from 272BC, not recreating history as it really happened (which would be impossible with the engine and kinda hit the replay value rather hard).

Which makes me wonder what it means when a game is called historical.

[abou]

The hope of EB is that you are given an historical jumping-off point of 272 BC. Everything that happens after that is up to you. We do not, and never have, stated that EB is a history-on-rails game.

[scutum]

The hope of EB is that you are given an historical jumping-off point of 272 BC. Everything that happens after that is up to you. We do not, and never have, stated that EB is a history-on-rails game.

Exactly. However, the reforms do intervene with this policy. When events change for example Marian may never exist and thus eliminating Marian reforms. Even if reforms ever take place the uniforms, weaponry, banners, symbols etc most likely would be different.

[abou]

We believe that there are certain factors driving events. We call the Marian reforms that name because it is a convention everyone understands, but something similar would have likely happened regardless as long as Rome continued to expand. The adoption of the thureos was pretty much a foregone conclusion by our game start. There are certain caveats, of course, but as far as we are concerned, the game is quite historical.

[XSamatan]

This is not correct IMHO. The reforms as they are represented in EB are 'pictures' of what would happen if an empire would expand in a certain way. If you expand in other ways, build i.e. not the required buildings then the reform won't take place or takes place a later time, when you got too much provinces to get all your army from Italy itself for the Romans as example. So the reforms are a optional feature and not a must. However this is EB1 thema and should be discussed there, the reforms in EB2 are depicted in the previews.

XSamatan

[scutum]

Does this mean that EBII has different options/versions of reformed units?

[Apázlinemjó]

in EB Pontics didnt have their own cavalry, I mean, Pontus must have their own cavalry and this cavalry unit must available only Pontus

My guess would be that at the beginning of the third century BC, Pontos didn't really have an "own" cavalry force, but the same as in the last days of the Achaemenid Empire. Which means the exra-heavies were Persians, as they were the ruling nobility, while the mediums and lights were Galatians, Anatolians, Pontic Greeks and later Scythians too. Though I have to admit this setup probably changed in the later periods (adopting the Successors-like cavalry), and that is missing from EB I in my opinion too.

On topic, I would like to see "fixed" morale stats at the Pontic elites (Chalkaspides, Pontikoi Thorakitai), because the 13 is just too low compared to the other units in the same class. When I wrote my paper about the Mithridatic Wars I focused on the politics more than on the actual battles, but I think the defeats against the SPQR don't prove that these guys were more likely to rout and were bad quality soldiers than the "others". Also the Pontic numbers were obviously exaggerated by the Romans and I'm sure none believes that at Chaeronea Sulla lost only 13 men, while Archelaus lost over 100 000. But If I'm wrong, then I would like to ask an EB member to explain me the reason behind the low morale. Thanks.

[Ludens]

I don't know about morale, but Watchman mentioned that the Pontic Thorakitai had been given lower stats than intended, and the Chalkaspides are in for an overhaul in EB2.

[Apázlinemjó]

I don't know about morale, but Watchman mentioned that the Pontic Thorakitai had been given lower stats than intended, and the Chalkaspides are in for an overhaul in EB2.

Yes, Watchman had a fix for Pontikoi Thorakitai (though, with that they were still inferior to anything which was heavier than a Thuerophoroi), and maybe I'm wrong, but I thought they were intended to be a near-elite/elite unit, which means the 13 morale is low. I'm glad the Chalkaspides is getting an overhaul in EB2.

Edit: And the cost between a Thureophoroi and a fixed Pontikoi Thorakitai is over 500 mnai.

[vartan]

Yes, Watchman had a fix for Pontikoi Thorakitai (though, with that they were still inferior to anything which was heavier than a Thuerophoroi), and maybe I'm wrong, but I thought they were intended to be a near-elite/elite unit, which means the 13 morale is low. I'm glad the Chalkaspides is getting an overhaul in EB2.

Edit: And the cost between a Thureophoroi and a fixed Pontikoi Thorakitai is over 500 mnai.

They used to be known as Pontic Elite Inf (who knows?) but now Heavy Inf. So 13 is pretty great morale stat. Any more and you'd be all day long. For the tournament you play in (and you play as Pontos), the Pontikoi Thorakitai have 0.13 lethality swords as opposed to the former 0.1. And they have some other changes to their javelin attack and range.

[Apázlinemjó]

They used to be known as Pontic Elite Inf (who knows?) but now Heavy Inf. So 13 is pretty great morale stat. Any more and you'd be all day long. For the tournament you play in (and you play as Pontos), the Pontikoi Thorakitai have 0.13 lethality swords as opposed to the former 0.1. And they have some other changes to their javelin attack and range.

What we should know here is their role. Are they a near-elite/elite unit or just a "regular" one? And the fixed stats made them a bit better, but as I commented in the previous post, they are still useless. Paying almost 2k mnai for a unit which can barely handle regular light infantry (without AP) and light spearmen is just a waste of mnai, in my opinion.

Edit: So we need an EB team member who can help and enlighten us in the matter. *Tries to summon one of them with conjuration magic.*

Edit2: Ahh, edited the first sentence, I missunderstood your sentences. :D

[Ludens]

What we should know here is their role. Are they a near-elite/elite unit or just a "regular" one?

Why would they be elite? They don't look like elite units to me, and AFAIK they were intended to replace the old-fashioned phalangite armies, suggesting they made up the rank-and-file.

[vartan]

What we should know here is their role. Are they a near-elite/elite unit or just a "regular" one? And the fixed stats made them a bit better, but as I commented in the previous post, they are still useless. Paying almost 2k mnai for a unit which can barely handle regular light infantry (without AP) and light spearmen is just a waste of mnai, in my opinion.

Edit: So we need an EB team member who can help and enlighten us in the matter. *Tries to summon one of them with conjuration magic.*

Edit2: Ahh, edited the first sentence, I missunderstood your sentences. :D

Those units are far from elite. Just because there were few of them on the field doesn't make them elite.

[Rahl]

Wow. I didn't want my innocent post at the top of the page 4 to create random arguments and silly accusations. I just wanted to note that fast units, if the EB team thinks so, should be made sure to be given the fast_moving attribute when the time comes....so that there is more variety of uses for units, or more differences in how they're used. I meant only the best intentions to note something and try to improve upon something that was perhaps missing in EB1.

Fast moving isn't a attribute like hardy or good vs. cavalry. IIRC it depends on the movement-animation the unit uses. In EB I there already were several different unit speeds. The faster ones are characterised by the fast moving "attribute" ingame. Though there are different speeds in this two groups of units e.g. the fast moving Thessalian cavalry is not as fast as the horse archers of the nomads.

[Megas Pyrrhos]

Fast moving isn't a attribute like hardy or good vs. cavalry. IIRC it depends on the movement-animation the unit uses. In EB I there already were several different unit speeds. The faster ones are characterised by the fast moving "attribute" ingame. Though there are different speeds in this two groups of units e.g. the fast moving Thessalian cavalry is not as fast as the horse archers of the nomads.

Yes indeed, but if you had read my first post earlier, then you would know I've already said that it is unit-model related. Otherwise, I'd just mosey on into the EDU and wrangle me up some fast movin' thureo-fast-oi.

But its all good.

[athanaric]

in EB Pontics didnt have their own cavalry, I mean, Pontus must have their own cavalry and this cavalry unit must available only Pontus

It would be good if you argued why you think that is, instead of just saying "it must".
That said, Pontos has Cappadoccian Cavalry in EBI that I haven't seen with any other faction. Maybe we'll see more in EBII...

[Noble Wrath]

in EB Pontics didnt have their own cavalry, I mean, Pontus must have their own cavalry and this cavalry unit must available only Pontus

If I am not mistaken, I remember an EB member's post stating that the team had found new evidence for a faction-specific heavy cavalry unit for Pontos. It was a while ago though and I can't find the exact post.