The Mongols invade SamWars mod...

[TechnoMage of Shadows]

we found the problem with beta8 that desynced MP,
and we fixed it.

in doing so puzz added the original medieval unit mix back into the unit prod files

and that got me thinking...

most of the mongols were ported to medieval by creative assembly,
they renamed some, and only really "lost" a couple, javelins and guardsmen,

but they used a javelin unit elsewhere, and the guardsmen could be any "eastern" elite infantry

so i took some liberties, and now we have the mongol faction with unique units in the MP side of the Samwars mod,

they simply need play balancing...

I.N.T.R.O.D.U.C.I.N.G. YOUR M.O.N.G.O.L H.O.R.D.E.
Golden Horde Heavy Cavalry
Golden Horde Horse Archers
Steppe Cavalry (always needed in Shogun, and now they're here!!)

Golden Horde Warriors (again, much needed and freshly minted)
Janisary Heavy Infantry (playing the role of Guardsmen)
Murabittin Infantry (playing the role of Javelins)
Muwahid Foot (playing the role of Spearmen)
Naptha Throwers (playing the role of Thunder Bombers)

did i miss anything?

install beta 8, unzip this little file, drop the contents into the main game folder,
in custom battle or mp select 2008 Samurai Warlords
enjoy
2008_SAMWARS_MONGOLS.zip

[Puzz3D]

Orda suggested the following unit set for the Mongol faction:

Korean Spearmen
Korean Guards
Korean Skirmishers
Thunder Bombers
Imperial Archers ( Golden Horde Warriors )

Imperial Heavy Cav ( G/H )...armed with sword or polearm
Mongol Heavy Cav ( STW/MI )...armed with a lance
Imperial Horse Archers ( G/H ) armed with a bow
Mongol Horse Archers ( STW/MI ) armed with a bow

As the Mongol Cav were highly trained I would expect them to be reliable, disciplined units. As for the two Horse Archer units ( I just had variety in mind really ) but perhaps their stats could be adjusted, possibly making, say, Imperial Horse Archers better in defense and Mongol Horse Archers better in attack.

With the Heavies, Imperials and Mongols could be a bit like the Japanese Heavy / Naginata, with Mongols being faster, lighter armoured swift, shock Cav. Imperials could take the role of breaking weakened units and holding, similar to the Japanese Heavy Cav

[TechnoMage of Shadows]

Is the idea to leave the Mongols weak on anti-cav?
for guardsmen are really halberd units, and not so good anti-cav as yari,
(my thought with steppe was a role similar to yari cav,)

perhaps the lack of good spear units could be the Mongols weakness?
and their proficiency with missiles their strength?

what to do about the Mongols lack of guns?
a second weakness perhaps?
forcing players who take Mongol to avoid a prolonged missile duel?

If such is the case then a Mongol player will have to avoid rushing, for the spears will get him,
yet cannot sit still – or the guns will get him,
so must exercise guile, speed and maneuver.


So we lose the steppe cav from MP?
and import both types of Mongol Cav from Shogun?

[Puzz3D]

Yes the idea is to have the Mongol's strength be in their cav with the Korean infantry weak relative to the Japanese infantry. If the Mongol heavy cav have a lance they will have anti-cav bonus and be unbeatable by any Japanese cav unit. This will put the Japanese on the tactical defensive. It could be difficult to playbalance.

The other option would be to not give Mongol heavy cav the anti-cav bonus and keep the steppe cav for that purpose. The problem there is that you are drifting into duplicating the tactical capability of the Japanese cav rather than offering something tactically different, and you will have to improve the Korean infantry, if the Japanese cav can counter the Mongol cav, making the Mongols even more Japanese like tactically.

The Japanese won't have guns in the Mongol era because they weren't invented yet.

[TechnoMage of Shadows]

well in the incarnation i uploaded the japanese do have guns,
that can be played for fun until the next incarnation of the mod.


keeping the mongols tactically different would be a priority,
giving them a heavy unit with anti-cav would defeat that goal.

i envisage stepp cav would have even less armour than yari cav, cloaks and padding and No yoroi,
making them even more vulnerable to missiles - (i would Not make them faster than yari cav),
- where one can use yari cav to scatter archers, one could not use steppe cav to the same effect
(perhaps make the steppe cav fear sam archers?)

[Puzz3D]

keeping the mongols tactically different would be a priority,
giving them a heavy unit with anti-cav would defeat that goal.

I'd rather not give MHC the anti-cav bonus because it was a problem in STW/MI and would mean their cost would have to be increased over JHC, but we'll have to eventually remove the lance and give them a different weapon.

i envisage stepp cav would have even less armour than yari cav, cloaks and padding and No yoroi,
making them even more vulnerable to missiles - (i would Not make them faster than yari cav),
- where one can use yari cav to scatter archers, one could not use steppe cav to the same effect
(perhaps make the steppe cav fear sam archers?)

They could be a slightly less expensive version of YC. Less armor would reduce their defensive melee capability as well, and their cost would therefore be lower than YC. I don't want to rely on fear factor as a balancing mechanism in Samurai Wars because it's not intuitive. We can adjust the morale level of a unit to make it more likely or less likely to rout.

So, we could go ahead and playbalance with the MHC, MLC and Steppe cav as the Mongol cav units, and add the Imperial cav later. I think the Imperial cav will come in as less expensive versions of MHC and MLC just as NC is a less expensive version of JHC.