View Full Version : Mafia VIII: Return of the Recommencement of the Revenge of the Mafia [Concluded]
GeneralHankerchief
06-25-2008, 17:12
It's definitely going to be interesting.
That does not instill me with confidence.
GeneralHankerchief
06-25-2008, 19:07
I wonder if I should just post the write-up now...
Nah. :evilgrin:
Craterus
06-25-2008, 19:07
Vote: Yes
Privateerkev
06-25-2008, 19:42
well, since we know it's over...
might as well post the write up.
:shrug:
Seamus Fermanagh
06-25-2008, 23:51
GH:
Congrats on yet another "millenial" installment of this wonderful series!! :yes:
GeneralHankerchief
06-26-2008, 00:02
GH:
Congrats on yet another "millenial" installment of this wonderful series!! :yes:
Thank you very much, but I think the total post count of your two Capo games still eclipse my eight. :laugh4:
KukriKhan
06-26-2008, 02:50
1830, my time, and still no write-up. Humpf. :)
I am the detective. Sasaki was a mafioso. I never found the second.
Or, I'm not the detective. I'm town, and have no idea who the bad guys were, as does not every other townie.
Or, I'm neither town nor detective, but mafia, cleverly keeping my head down, whilst seeming to participate.
I appreciate the complimentary thoughts about my cleverness. It's quite flattering. But sadly, undeserved.
I am town. I'm always town. Even when I could have picked "the dark side", I stayed town (in Capo2). But: g'head, wrap up the maf-win by lynching an innocent.
Hehe. Reading over ^^that^^, I realize how scummy it smells. Ah well, GH will decide what he decides, whenever he decides to decide. Good luck town!!
GeneralHankerchief
06-26-2008, 03:17
Day breaks in the Frontroom. All is quiet. With six townies left (six little townies) to inhabit a rather large stretch of land, silence ruled the day. At least, it did for a little while.
KukriKhan was driving around - not to deliver mail as usual for there was both no mail to be delivered and no one to deliver it to - but to relieve his spirits after the previous night's execution. It was his vote that had doomed Curio and ever since the lynch (before it, really) he had been questioning the move. The disease of doubt was gnawing at him.
"Indecision really can kill," he thought to himself. "We all just have to hope that I was right," he continued thinking as he turned onto a long stretch of what was formerly a bustling avenue.
Almost on cue, a figure rushed out into the road ahead, brandishing a shotgun. At that point, two things started happening in slow motion.
The first was that Kukri, out of blind reflex and panic of potentially harming another innocent individual, yanked his foot off the gas and slammed on the brakes as hard as he could. The sound of half of his tires being left on the road behind him was interminable, and Kukri just hoped he would be able to stop in time, not at all noticing the second thing that was happening...
...which was the figure on the road pumping and leveling his shotgun directly at Kukri's mail truck. Time slowed down even further. The figure's finger moved towards the trigger... it made contact... it was pulling the trigger back...
*BOOM!*
The truck's windshield shattered, making it the second vehicle in the Frontroom to do so that past week. Unfortunately for Kukri, his fate was much worse than a broken nose, however, as he immediately felt impacts in his right leg and shoulder. Losing control, the mail truck swerved wildly, finally coming to rest only after it had ruined several parked (and abandoned) cars.
"Oog..." Well past thinking about past mistakes, Kukri could only mumble incoherently in pain as he struggled to undo his seat belt and miraculously step onto the tarmac. Of course, his right leg, shredded by the blast, collapsed, and Kukri moaned as he hit the ground, twisting to get a view of the man marching toward him, shotgun still leveled.
The moans turned into screams as he realized that, in fact, he was going to die. That he was in intense pain. That there were a thousand dreams that would never be fulfilled. Punctuated by the sounds of various car alarms going off, it made for a ghastly, and yet appropriate, sound. Nevertheless, the mafioso, who by now had approached Kukri (who was trying to crawl away, to no avail) spoke, and his voice resonated above the din, albeit somewhat difficult to understand.
"You chode wrog. You pay the pride. You lode."
The shotgun fired once again. Five little townies.
On the other hand, Ichigo had taken the completely opposite mindset of Kukri. Despite the murders, lynchings, and general aura of terror afflicting the Frontroom, was in high spirits. Not quite realizing the danger, he still regarded the whole situation as a joke. But, like Kukri, he was just as wrong.
Taking a walk to enjoy the air, he failed to notice the significance of the black Mercedes swinging around the corner behind him. Spotting the car but still not comprehending, he paused to wave at the driver, a man dressed in a trenchcoat and whose face was strangely hidden by a fedora. He saw the driver wave back.
"What a nice car," Ichigo said to himself. "What a nice day. What a nice man."
Once again he failed to notice the entire picture. Mainly, in the wave, the hand was not open in greeting, but closed; wrapped around an SMG that was pointed right at him.
Ichigo fell to the ground, riddled with bullets, with a smile on his face. The car's speed didn't alter one bit as it drove away.
Later that day, Chief of Police Beirut gathered the four remaining villagers into the town square in order to make announcement.
"Gentlemen," he began, "There are four of you left. At least one of you is in the mafia, judging by today's kills. If it's more than one, we're all doomed, and the mafia is just playing with us. If it's one, however... there is hope. Get the lynch right today, and we are saved. Decimated, perhaps, but saved nonetheless. Lynch the wrong person, though... and it's the last vote you'll ever be part of, either way."
Six little townies whose luck had been so poor,
Their fears were realized and they were now four;
Four little townies who weren't meant to be,
Hoping it would stop after they were three.
~~~~~~~~~~
Still alive: (4)
makaikhaan
Sarathos
Kagemusha
discovery1
Suicide/Wrath of God:
|Sith|R|AntiWarmanCake88
Mithrandir
Fenring
Lord Winter
georgeman51
Caius
Tiberius of the Drake
Kommodus
Killed:
Tratorix
Omanes Alexandrapolites
Andres
Craterus
LittleGrizzly
TevashSzat
Crazed Rabbit
woad&fangs
Rythmic
Quintus.J.Cicero
shlin28
RoadKill
CountArach
Joe Monks
Beefy187
Sigurd Fafnesbane
KukriKhan
Ichigo
Executed:
Privateerkev
Elite Ferret
peverpink
TinCow
Sasaki Kojiro
Seamus Fermanagh
FactionHeir
Gaius Scribonius Curio
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Final round. As such, it will last 48 hours instead of the usual 24. Best of luck, and make it good. :bow:
GH
GeneralHankerchief
06-26-2008, 03:20
Oh, you all thought it was over? Apologies, my friends, but we're not done with you yet. :evilgrin:
Privateerkev
06-26-2008, 03:23
Wow...
It's Kag and 3 people who don't vote.
I wonder who the mafia is... *sarcasm*
seireikhaan
06-26-2008, 03:30
:sweatdrop:
I'm terribly, terribly sorry folks. A little over a week ago, I got an offer at the last second from a good friend to go on a vacation with him to the northeast, and right before college, it was an offer I frankly couldn't refuse. I expected to have internet access and was left out in the dry when I found out that there was none to be found where we were.
I'm frantically trying to gather myself here, but for the time being, I'll Vote: Kagemusha based on what I've been picking up from the last few pages.
KukriKhan
06-26-2008, 03:43
What a beautiful/horrifying death scene. Thank you GeneralHankerchief. :bow: I'll treasure it. I only wish I'd thrown a letter at the killer, in a last act of futile defiance. :)
It's Kag and 3 people who don't vote.
Or talk. I know, I know: "Let the Host WoG the lurkers, worrying about them is fruitless".
Beaten again by guys who know how to lay low and laugh up their sleeves quietly. Nice job fellas! :2thumbsup:
Privateerkev
06-26-2008, 03:53
Well, we know it isn't Khaan. Khaan couldn't have been gone for over a week without a scum-buddy to submit orders. And if he has a scum-buddy, then the game is actually over since it's 2 on 2.
So I doubt it's him.
As for Sarathos and Disco, I also doubt it. These two have made zero attempts to take the game even half-way seriously.
Go for Kag. :yes:
Gaius Scribonius Curio
06-26-2008, 04:00
So now we have to hope that Sarathos or Disco poke their heads in here within the next 48 hours. If not Kage wins...
discovery1
06-26-2008, 04:07
So now we have to hope that Sarathos or Disco poke their heads in here within the next 48 hours. If not Kage wins...
Kage? I was thinking it wasn't him since he was busy partying in the middle of the week. I was suspecting you, but its obviously not you, at least not now.
So has Sarathos done anything in the game or is he just as bad as myself if not worse? Edit: so lately he's been doing nothing.
LittleGrizzly
06-26-2008, 04:11
I am the detective. Sasaki was a mafioso. I never found the second.
God damn it! who voted for PK instead ! i bet it was sasaki that killed me! damn scum...!
Im still half expecting it to be someone other than kage, though i wouldn't vote anyone else (if i wasn't dead)
Go town!
Privateerkev
06-26-2008, 07:11
That might have been helpful if you let that information be known earlier...
If it's even true...
I'd look out for Disco he's showing too much interest in this game.
It seems I was wrong about Kukri :embarassed:
My apologies Kukrikhan :bow:
Beefy187
06-26-2008, 08:34
and i was wrong about Ichigo
my apologies
Sarathos said his going to be away for couple days. I doubt that its him since the mafias are getting their orders in
Interesting, so 2 of the last 4 people are absent, but we're pretty sure Kage is mafia and khaan has gotten his vote in on Kage properly. So, if either of them show up the town can win. If they don't, then it will be a tie that cannot be broken because no one else is around. :sweatdrop:
FactionHeir
06-26-2008, 12:03
My earlier suspicion (before Kukri+Kage) was Kage+disco.
I say we lynch Kage.
Though it is indeed odd that the two outside of Kage which were highest on our suspect list got killed, as if someone wanted to frame Kage. But I trust he's smart enough to make us think just that.
Kukri... :disappointed:
I guess all your investigatees (if you were the detective) have been killed?
Even so, you should have listed all your results to narrow down the remaining suspects. If there are one or two of those still living with a innocent result, we could have really pressured the others.
Did you not investigate Kage? I guess you can't answer.
Just tell us which of the remaining 4 you find suspicious. :smartass2:
Kagemusha
06-26-2008, 13:17
So it was not Kukri?Kukri, why didnt you reveal yourself last round?Im sure you have investigated some of the remaining players.Makaikhaan, you just decided to pop out of nowhere? Damn. Either we have lurker mafioso, Khaan or it is disco or Sarathos. Now i dont think Sarathos has been around in quite few rounds, so that leaves us with either lurker mafioso Khaan or active player, disco. If its disco, i must grant you, game very well played, i had no suspicion towards you at any point.
It's definitely Kage. I recommend that khaan send PMs to disco and Sarathos to encourage them to get their votes in. Us deaders aren't allowed to do that.
Kagemusha
06-26-2008, 13:47
I am not the mafia. I am the perfect lynch bait. I think we need some more discussion in this round. Vote: Makaikhaan. What makes you think that i am mafia and why you are now appearing after few rounds of lurking?
Sarathos
06-26-2008, 14:04
I am here!
I so sorry I couldn't be more active guys, but my holidays are getting pretty busy and its hard to find some spare time.
Well from what I have read what I could so far and with the suggestions from numerous outside sources, I am going to have to Vote:Kagemusha.
KukriKhan
06-26-2008, 14:07
Sorry to disappoint, guys. :bow: I was not the detective. I believe that role died early.
If you remember, I begged the detective a couple days ago, if he were still alive, to reveal any results he'd got, innocent or guilty. He never replied or revealed.
I was just exploring my possible roles from the point-of-view of the other then-living/voting townies. Then I told the truth: I am town. I'm always town.
My money was on Ichigo as mafia, but that proved incorrect. Of the remaining living players Makaikhaan the lurker seems the most likely candidate to me. But then, I've guessed wrong what, 9 times so far?
Kagemusha
06-26-2008, 14:07
And another lurker pops in. Now the question really is which one of you is trying to use me as lynch bait? Pretty low tactics gentlemen, if i may say so.
Privateerkev
06-26-2008, 14:13
So it was not Kukri?Kukri, why didnt you reveal yourself last round?Im sure you have investigated some of the remaining players.Makaikhaan, you just decided to pop out of nowhere? Damn. Either we have lurker mafioso, Khaan or it is disco or Sarathos. Now i dont think Sarathos has been around in quite few rounds, so that leaves us with either lurker mafioso Khaan or active player, disco. If its disco, i must grant you, game very well played, i had no suspicion towards you at any point.
Active player Disco!?!
The guy missed 4 voting sessions!
I am not the mafia. I am the perfect lynch bait. I think we need some more discussion in this round. Vote: Makaikhaan. What makes you think that i am mafia and why you are now appearing after few rounds of lurking?
A few rounds? The guy hadn't posted anywhere on the board for 8 or 9 days!
And another lurker pops in. Now the question really is which one of you is trying to use me as lynch bait? Pretty low tactics gentlemen, if i may say so.
The other 3 people have been absent for large parts of the game. And 2 of them have made zero attempt to take the game seriously until the end. I highly doubt any of the 3 of them are mafia.
"I choose you Kagamashu!"
(sorry, I mangled your name on purpose so it would fit better with the Pokemon quote.)
*I would have added a clown smiley here but I am afraid GH would have violated my corpse*
Kagemusha
06-26-2008, 14:16
Kev.And it isnt even slightly suspicious that these two gentlemen now appear out from thin air. My scale is turning towards Makaikhaan though. If i remember right, last time i won a mafia game, it was Khaan whom i got lynched on last round and he might be now returning the favor.
Kage, the jig is up. Since we know for sure now that we lynched one of the mafioso earlier, that guarantees that the remaining mafioso had to be an active player. If they weren't around, there wouldn't have been kills one night. That pretty much clears everyone but you. We have all noticed changes in the write-ups that have suggested a single killer since about the time Sasaki and Seamus got lynched. Given this time frame for a solo mafioso, the only person left alive who was active constantly during that period is you. Combined with your earlier suspicious posting style, you are really the only lynch option.
I am actually very optimistic for a town victory now, which is about a 180 degree turn from 24 hours ago.
GeneralHankerchief
06-26-2008, 14:23
Anybody know how long the .Org was down last night/this morning? If it was a while I may extend things.
Kagemusha
06-26-2008, 14:25
Kage, the jig is up. Since we know for sure now that we lynched one of the mafioso earlier, that guarantees that the remaining mafioso had to be an active player. If they weren't around, there wouldn't have been kills one night. That pretty much clears everyone but you. We have all noticed changes in the write-ups that have suggested a single killer since about the time Sasaki and Seamus got lynched. Given this time frame for a solo mafioso, the only person left alive who was active constantly during that period is you. Combined with your earlier suspicious posting style, you are really the only lynch option.
I am actually very optimistic for a town victory now, which is about a 180 degree turn from 24 hours ago.
Tincow, i dont know how low or high you see my capabilities playing as mafia, but have i been a mafioso, do you think i would have killed of Kukri, who seemed like an obvious lynch for this round. I would have voted for Kukri had he been alive this round. You are wrong and the game is about to be won by a lurker mafioso.
Oh, imagine disco winning a GH game...
He even posted whithout the bandwagon smiley being posted previously. Add to that the mere fact that he's still alive... :inquisitive:
It hás to be disco.
Anybody know how long the .Org was down last night/this morning? If it was a while I may extend things.
If you discretely pm me the name of the remaining mafioso, I might be willing to share that information with you.
I don't have a clue :shrug:
seireikhaan
06-26-2008, 14:29
I am not the mafia. I am the perfect lynch bait. I think we need some more discussion in this round. Vote: Makaikhaan. What makes you think that i am mafia and why you are now appearing after few rounds of lurking?
I was gone on vacation. Not lurking. I had NO internet. Period. Again, sorry about being gone without warning, but I thought I would be able to get some internet.
What makes me think you're mafia? :shrug: Sarathos has been doing nothing for most of the game, and based on how he's acted in past games, this doesn't seem out of character for him at all. I've been picking up nothing from Disco that would send warning flares; he's been classic Disco from what I've seen, and there's nothing to indicate he's guilty either.
You on the other hand, have a record of being very good at mafia, and what with order of elimination, you seem to be the one who's guilty. Plus, there seems to be a consensus among people I respect quite a bit regarding mafia that you're scummy. That's all I got; I've been gone for over a week. Sorry.:shrug:
Privateerkev
06-26-2008, 14:40
Kage, the jig is up. Since we know for sure now that we lynched one of the mafioso earlier, that guarantees that the remaining mafioso had to be an active player. If they weren't around, there wouldn't have been kills one night. That pretty much clears everyone but you. We have all noticed changes in the write-ups that have suggested a single killer since about the time Sasaki and Seamus got lynched. Given this time frame for a solo mafioso, the only person left alive who was active constantly during that period is you. Combined with your earlier suspicious posting style, you are really the only lynch option.
I am actually very optimistic for a town victory now, which is about a 180 degree turn from 24 hours ago.
I think we can pretty much eliminate Sasaki as a suspect at this point. He was pushing very hard for the town to lynch Kag earlier. My guess would be Seamus.
Anybody know how long the .Org was down last night/this morning? If it was a while I may extend things.
A few hours. Say from 10ish CT to 1ish CT.
Tincow, i dont know how low or high you see my capabilities playing as mafia, but have i been a mafioso, do you think i would have killed of Kukri, who seemed like an obvious lynch for this round. I would have voted for Kukri had he been alive this round. You are wrong and the game is about to be won by a lurker mafioso.
No, I think you killed Kukri and surrounded yourself with 3 lurkers. You probably hoped that they wouldn't vote. And if they did, you probably hoped they would be easy to heap suspicion onto.
woad&fangs
06-26-2008, 14:51
Privateerkev, Elite Ferret, peverpink, Sasaki, tincow, Seamus, factionheir, gaius scribonius curio
ONE of them is mafia. Our best bet of finding the living mafioso is to look for connections between our lynchees and and the remaining four.
Also, is anyone still trying to figure out the riddle?
Privateerkev
06-26-2008, 15:01
If anyone is claiming that I am mafia, they are basically claiming that I trusted Sarathos or Disco or Khaan enough to make it through the entire game.
Just something to keep in mind...
Kagemusha
06-26-2008, 15:12
I think we can pretty much eliminate Sasaki as a suspect at this point. He was pushing very hard for the town to lynch Kag earlier. My guess would be Seamus.
A few hours. Say from 10ish CT to 1ish CT.
No, I think you killed Kukri and surrounded yourself with 3 lurkers. You probably hoped that they wouldn't vote. And if they did, you probably hoped they would be easy to heap suspicion onto.
So you are basically accusing me now of incompetence. Why in the world would i put myself in this kind of situation, when if i would have been mafia, i would have had easy path to victory? Im sure someone is laughing right now from the bottom of his heart.:smash:
Privateerkev
06-26-2008, 15:21
So you are basically accusing me now of incompetence. Why in the world would i put myself in this kind of situation, when if i would have been mafia, i would have had easy path to victory? Im sure someone is laughing right now from the bottom of his heart.:smash:
:shrug:
You simply seem like the best suspect out of the 4.
I do the best I can with the information I have before me. :bow:
GeneralHankerchief
06-26-2008, 15:23
Figured that I might as well say that if a mafioso is inactive, I'll allow his partner to send in kills for him regardless of state, but that mafioso is still under threat of being Wogged.
Kagemusha
06-26-2008, 15:24
:shrug:
You simply seem like the best suspect out of the 4.
I do the best I can with the information I have before me. :bow:
Well that just means that you are being played by the mafia. Kudos to him, who ever he is.
Privateerkev
06-26-2008, 15:27
Well that just means that you are being played by the mafia. Kudos to him, who ever he is.
Someone sounds defensive...
If I'm being played, then I'm being played. After the game I'll give the player a "kudos", who ever it is.
But you could very well be attempting to play us as well. All of a sudden your fighting this awful hard.
You didn't have this dedication to the town's survival earlier in the game...
Kagemusha
06-26-2008, 15:30
Someone sounds defensive...
If I'm being played, then I'm being played. After the game I'll give the player a "kudos", who ever it is.
But you could very well be attempting to play us as well. All of a sudden your fighting this awful hard.
You didn't have this dedication to the town's survival earlier in the game...
Maybe it has something to do with the fact that if im lynched we will loose this game?:laugh4:Those who know my play style can tell you that when playing mafia, i mostly observe rather then talk all the time. But now in this situation it is very much up to me, whether we loose or win.
woad&fangs
06-26-2008, 15:38
Kage, where were you on the 14th?
Kagemusha
06-26-2008, 15:41
I was at Provinssirock rock festival in Seinäjoki Finland during 12th,13rd,14th and 15th.
KukriKhan
06-26-2008, 15:51
Figured that I might as well say that if a mafioso is inactive, I'll allow his partner to send in kills for him regardless of state, but that mafioso is still under threat of being Wogged.
Yet another tantalizing clue. Why would he even say such a thing, if it hadn't occured?
Figured that I might as well say that if a mafioso is inactive, I'll allow his partner to send in kills for him regardless of state, but that mafioso is still under threat of being Wogged.
Hmm. This post is worthy of some consideration.
GeneralHankerchief
06-26-2008, 15:55
Yet another tantalizing clue. Why would he even say such a thing, if it hadn't occured?
Because I want the game to be decided by thread behavior, not mechanics discussions.
KukriKhan
06-26-2008, 15:57
Because I want the game to be decided by thread behavior, not mechanics discussions.
For the record: I wasn't complaining; I see and agree with your point.
woad&fangs
06-26-2008, 16:07
ummm, guys, I'm not so convinced that it is Kagemusha anymore.
Kagemusha voted to lynch Gaius the day he was lynched.
He voted to lynch Seamus the day he was lynched.
He voted to lynch FactionHeir the day he was lynched.
He didn't attempt to save Sasaki during the tiebreaker round.
He abstained on the day Tincow and FactionHeir were tied.(was only on at the very beginning so this might not be conclusive)
He made no attempt to save EliteFerret
And He voted for Privateerkev.(although he was very late on the bandwagon)
So possible partners for Kagemusha are
Peverpink
And a slight possibility that it was Tincow or Privateerkev. However since both of them are calling for his lynch I very much doubt that.
So fellow townies, do you really believe we had a peverpink-Kagemusha mafia?
Privateerkev
06-26-2008, 16:10
Name|D1|D2|D3|D4|D4TB|D5|D5TB|D6|D7|D8
makaikhaan|voted EF|voted EF|voted TD|voted FH|voted FH|voted sasaki|no vote|no vote|no vote|no vote
Sarathos|voted PK|voted shlin|voted pever|meant to vote MK|voted FH|voted FH|no vote|abstained|no vote|no vote
Kagemusha|voted PK|voted CR|voted pever|abstained|no vote|no vote|no vote|voted seamus|voted FH|voted Curio
discovery1|voted sasaki|no vote|voted sasaki|no vote|voted TC|no vote|voted Komm|voted seamus|no vote|no vote
tally:
Kag: 2 (khaan, sarathos)
Khaan: 1 (Kag)
And I highly doubt pever was Kag's scum-buddy. Pever "revealed" as the detective and called for us to lynch Kag. Ironic given the current situation...
*edit*
Also, Kag did vote for pever. You have to go through the posts and find it since GH never posted the tally for D3.
Well, when it comes down to it we've got two options. First we can believe that GH's first statement was meant to be a hint, then we're looking at disco, Sarathos, and khaan as possible mafiosos with no effective clue as to which is the bad guy. So, there's no ideal choice and we might as well just draw straws to figure out the victim. The other option is to believe that GH really was just trying to take game mechanics out of the decision, stick with our current assumptions about Kage, and just lynch him.
Given the choice between strong evidence against one person and a random choice between three others, I'll go with the strong evidence every time. If we're wrong, then we're wrong, but that doesn't change the fact that it's insanity to do anything else.
He didn't attempt to save Sasaki during the tiebreaker round.
...
So fellow townies, do you really believe we had a peverpink-Kagemusha mafia?
No, it's likely Sasaki. No speaking up on his behalf is a very long way away from voting for him. It's actually a good tactic when one mafioso is likely to be lynched. Kage is the best option and that's the end result. Second guessing ourselves at this point is more likely to result in an error than continuing with the current trend.
Privateerkev
06-26-2008, 16:41
No, it's likely Sasaki. No speaking up on his behalf is a very long way away from voting for him. It's actually a good tactic when one mafioso is likely to be lynched. Kage is the best option and that's the end result. Second guessing ourselves at this point is more likely to result in an error than continuing with the current trend.
Again, how do you explain the fact that Sasaki has been pushing us to lynch Kag for awhile?
I do agree we're better off sticking with Kag than reading too much into GH's post.
woad&fangs
06-26-2008, 16:44
The write up clearly implies that there are 2 mafia alive (this is our last chance etc).
Kagemusha MUST be lynched. He is definitely mafia.
That doesn't sound very scumbuddyy to me:no:
Again, how do you explain the fact that Sasaki has been pushing us to lynch Kag for awhile?
Not well, but I wouldn't put it past Sasaki to intentionally try to distance himself from his partner. Perhaps that is why Sasaki's analysis has been so poor throughout the game. He wanted to be seen as anti-Kage, but didn't want to actually sway anyone's opinion.
Privateerkev
06-26-2008, 16:50
Not well, but I wouldn't put it past Sasaki to intentionally try to distance himself from his partner. Perhaps that is why Sasaki's analysis has been so poor throughout the game. He wanted to be seen as anti-Kage, but didn't want to actually sway anyone's opinion.
Sasaki has seemed very much "off his game" this time around. Not at all like the Sasaki I came to fear and respect in Taormina.
But he was throwing suspicion onto Kag at a point when no one else was really looking at Kag. It seems unlikely for mafia to intentionally draw attention to their scum-buddy. Plus, when Sasaki and I were mafia together in Taormina, he went out of his way to protect me.
I would be willing to entertain a thought of someone other than Kage if we could actually find some evidence that singles out one of the others. If we just have to pick randomly, it's best just to go with Kage. If we can find something solid that points toward a specific one of the other three, then it's worth considering.
Privateerkev
06-26-2008, 17:34
I have found all 4 of them suspicious at some point in time during the game.
Khaan was playing it cool in the beginning, got a little defensive against me when pressed, and then went AFK for over a week.
Sarathos was goofing off, threw a vote solely because of my opinion, and then got defensive against me when I called him on it. And he's been absent a lot.
Disco has been goofing off and absent a lot.
But it's Kag who is setting my radar off the most now. He lays low during the early game, is absent during the middle game, and then all of a sudden comes out of no where and picks a fight with Curio using weak evidence. Then the game ends up with an active Kag and 3 lurkers.
Sarathos and Kag have each missed 3 votes. Khaan has missed 4. And Disco has missed 5. And when I say "missed", I mean they hadn't even posted for that day phase.
The relative lack of activity in this game has gotten me down... -_-
Kagemusha
06-26-2008, 17:37
I would be willing to entertain a thought of someone other than Kage if we could actually find some evidence that singles out one of the others. If we just have to pick randomly, it's best just to go with Kage. If we can find something solid that points toward a specific one of the other three, then it's worth considering.
Tincow. Could you please elaborate what is this "strong case" against me? The fact that you cant seem to find a mafia buddy to me? That last nights kills were different of how i would have played as mafia? Why would i put myself in situation where im supposedly the only suspicious person alive and make myself a automatic voting target by that? Is this attack of yours against me a smoke screen to cover your own mafia buddy? I think i will have a look at your voting patterns and see if anything interesting will surface from there and i suggest others to do so also.
The relative lack of activity in this game has gotten me down... -_-
Yep. The way I feel at the moment, I wouldn't mind losing to khaan, Sarathos, or disco, simply because they would have won by doing essentially nothing at all. That doesn't seem like too bad a failing on the town's part when we had to rely completely on in-thread posts because there was only one pro-town role and that person died before accomplishing anything. When you've got 50% of the players lurking, is it really our fault for not lynching the right lurker? In contrast, if Kage is the mafioso and we don't lynch him, I'll feel like a nitwit for not going after the completely obvious choice at the very end of the game.:shrug:
Kagemusha
06-26-2008, 17:47
Tincow.Oh it seems that in the round when you and Factionheir were tied, Makaikhaan voted Factionheir. Also the next round when you were executed Makaikhaan voted Factionheir, also Sarathos voted Factionheir, but Makaikhaan voted to save you during both rounds. Do you two by accident have a some kind of connection?
Tincow.Oh it seems that in the round when you and Factionheir were tied, Makaikhaan voted Factionheir. Also the next round when you were executed Makaikhaan voted Factionheir, also Sarathos voted Factionheir, but Makaikhaan voted to save you during both rounds. Do you two by accident have a some kind of connection?
Yes, we're both mafioso. Sorry, was that a rhetorical question? Your evidence against khaan is that he voted to save me twice in the same day phase? Well, hell. We better establish a connection between khaan and everyone else he didn't vote for as well. :inquisitive:
Privateerkev
06-26-2008, 18:29
Interesting point Kag...
Look at D2:
Elite Ferret: 5 (TinCow, makaikhaan, LittleGrizzly, Beefy187, Seamus Fermanagh)
FactionHeir: 2 (woad&fangs, Gaius Scribonius Curio)
now D4:
FactionHeir: 3 (TinCow, makaikhaan, Gaius Scribonius Curio)
TinCow: 3 (Sasaki Kojiro, Beefy187, FactionHeir)
then D4A:
TinCow: 8 (FactionHeir, Sigurd Fafnesbane, CountArach, discovery1, Sasaki Kojiro, shlin28, Kommodus, Joe Monks)
FactionHeir: 5 (Gaius Scribonius Curio, Sarathos, makaikhaan, Quintus.J.Cicero, TinCow)
So, on D2, when TC was not up for the lynch, Khaan and TC both voted to lynch EF instead of FH. But once FH was lynch competition with TC, Khaan and TC both voted to lynch FH.
TC of course is expected to try to save himself. (Though I still argue that he tried a little too hard to save himself.)
But I would like an explanation from Khaan about this...
Kagemusha
06-26-2008, 18:43
Yes, we're both mafioso. Sorry, was that a rhetorical question? Your evidence against khaan is that he voted to save me twice in the same day phase? Well, hell. We better establish a connection between khaan and everyone else he didn't vote for as well. :inquisitive:
It seems you two have acted in coordination on other occasions as well, like Kev just kindly showed.~:)
Privateerkev
06-26-2008, 18:57
Oh Kag is far from off the hook in my mind.
Everyone seems suspicious to me. The question is a matter of degrees...
FactionHeir
06-26-2008, 19:04
PK, I think given GH's statement, we should really consider that the mafia may have had only one person sending in all the kills when they could and their buddy sending it in the other times. Basically unless both were absent during the same time period (and that should encompass 2 day phases), there is a possibility of a link.
Also, that a dead mafia can still send in orders when his living buddy doesn't causes a great problem: Lynchees don't tend to post a lot with some exceptions.
I think now, at this very end of the game, we should maybe give the word riddle another try. The extended day phase gives us time.
Privateerkev
06-26-2008, 19:22
PK, I think given GH's statement, we should really consider that the mafia may have had only one person sending in all the kills when they could and their buddy sending it in the other times. Basically unless both were absent during the same time period (and that should encompass 2 day phases), there is a possibility of a link.
Also, that a dead mafia can still send in orders when his living buddy doesn't causes a great problem: Lynchees don't tend to post a lot with some exceptions.
I think now, at this very end of the game, we should maybe give the word riddle another try. The extended day phase gives us time.
All of those points are good ones.
As for the letters, someone else can gather the info. I don't mean to come off as a grump but I have been doing the bulk of the data gathering this game. I've spent whole evenings after work combing through posts, summaries, and voting records. Only to see my data largely ignored and to watch person after person come in and say things like, "oh sorry I've been really busy" or "oh I must be mafia, hur hur hur" or "whoo-hoo! bandwagon!"
The town's overall performance has been abysmal in my humble opion. Too many people sign up only to dissapear. Many just want to joke around. Most dissapear after they die as if the game is over or something.
I admit doing well in this game is hard work but to me the fun is in figuring out that which is unknown. As a townie, I want to be a detective and try to glean a vital clue from all the mud in here. I don't mind that the mafia make things difficult. That is their job. But I get tired of townies making the game harder because they are busy, lazy, bored, or whatever. And I don't mean new players. They are excused. But many people here have a pattern of signing up and then not committing to the game, or even worse, trying to mess with the game just for fun.
:brood:
Now that's a rant I can get behind. I had a conversation with Sasaki once where he explained to me that the reason he always goes mafia if he can is because people tend to put in a poor effort as townies on this forum. I think that's a pretty good summary of this game. Unless people get a nice shiny role, most don't care at all. I would personally be up for assembling a hand-picked list of dedicated players and running a few games with only those people. They might be smaller, but they would probably be far more interesting for those of us who like to commit a bit of thought to them.
Privateerkev
06-26-2008, 19:36
I do not understand the people that sign up in hope of getting a role, and then go absent when they find out they're a townie.
I have had more fun as a dead townie in this game and drunk-lawyer than I had as power-town in star wars mafia or as mafia in Taormina. (though I certainly had fun in those games).
To me, being a dead townie is fun. (I've never been a live townie.)
As a townie, the game is a big mystery to unravel. With a little help with data gathering and analysis, and some coordination, the town can really give the mafia a run for their money. You don't need a role.
GeneralHankerchief
06-26-2008, 19:44
Now that's a rant I can get behind. I had a conversation with Sasaki once where he explained to me that the reason he always goes mafia if he can is because people tend to put in a poor effort as townies on this forum. I think that's a pretty good summary of this game. Unless people get a nice shiny role, most don't care at all. I would personally be up for assembling a hand-picked list of dedicated players and running a few games with only those people. They might be smaller, but they would probably be far more interesting for those of us who like to commit a bit of thought to them.
I'm against this idea. This system would forever divide the Gameroom into tiers of players, and since the "good" players are only going to play games with fellow "good" players, there'd be no chance for new players to break in and many games would die violent deaths.
I don't think the key here is isolation so much as it is leading by example.
But I digress... back to the game! :yes:
Privateerkev
06-26-2008, 20:20
I'm against this idea. This system would forever divide the Gameroom into tiers of players, and since the "good" players are only going to play games with fellow "good" players, there'd be no chance for new players to break in and many games would die violent deaths.
What about the opposite instead?
Have a game called "random mafia" where all votes can only be decided using random.org.
Or "lurker mafia" where you can only join if you promise not to post. First guy WoG'd wins.
Or "meatball mafia" where any serious vote is forbidden. You can only vote if you have no good reason.
Or a game that combines all three themes.
That would keep the "regular" games open for everyone who wants to actually play without it becoming elitist.
(I'm not being sarcastic either. I'm seriously proposing this.) :beam:
*edit*
And I'm not talking about excluding anyone from the "regular" games. But it is obvious that some people have different conceptions of mafia games. My hope is, if those people get an outlet to play mafia a certain way, they'll either avoid the "regular" game or tone down the meatballing/lurking/randomness when they do join a regular game.
KukriKhan
06-26-2008, 22:05
Yeah, the silence of the lurkers is annoying. But it happens in every mafia game I've signed up for, and very often one or more of them are mafia. So I've come to accept it as the way the game is played. Maybe now you understand why I try to mount a "kill the lurkers" campaign early-on. Sure, true non-participants will be WoG'd, and we want all our lynch votes to count, and be intelligent choices.
But that tried-and-true strategy of "lay-low, play slow" until the endgame seems to work, so players are gonna use it. Just like "camping" and "red zoning" in the MP totalwar games.
I've had a family emergency pop up that's gonna make me afk from tomorrow through Sunday, so I'll miss the end of the game. Good luck town. Hang in there. :2thumbsup:
If I were still alive, I'd vote Kagemusha. He doth protest too much.
GeneralHankerchief
06-26-2008, 22:09
Take care, man. Family emergencies are never fun.
Kagemusha
06-26-2008, 22:12
Take care Kukri. O fcourse you would protest also if you knew the town was about to loose the game.~;)
Privateerkev
06-26-2008, 22:13
Maybe now you understand why I try to mount a "kill the lurkers" campaign early-on.
No, you seem to go after the lurkers while ignoring what has actually been said or analyzed in the thread. There needs to be a balance. A semi-active or active mafia would love for there to be a massive "kill the lurkers" campaign. When I was mafia in Taormina, I was overjoyed to watch you campaign against lurkers even when you were dead. It helped take heat off of me. :D
BTW, I hope the family thing turns out ok. :yes:
Privateerkev
06-26-2008, 22:20
*sigh*
woad&fangs
06-26-2008, 22:22
Do you guys think a Disco-Sasaki pairing is possible?
Kagemusha
06-26-2008, 22:24
Ok i will have to soon go to sleep,have to work tomorrow. So disco! Here is what you need:
https://img528.imageshack.us/img528/9687/emotbandwagonqr2uh4.gif
You need to save the town from these lurking mafia bastards vote Makaikhaan, once we have a tie we can crack this mafia down, otherwise we will loose.:shame:
Do you guys think a Disco-Sasaki pairing is possible?
I don't think they'd have a choice.
Privateerkev
06-26-2008, 22:28
Do you guys think a Disco-Sasaki pairing is possible?
Doubtful.
Disco piled onto Sasaki during the pointless bandwagon on him on D1. And Disco was absent when Sasaki was tied for the lynch on D5.
woad&fangs
06-26-2008, 22:34
Yes, but he had already declared he would follow the bandwagon smiley. If it was offered on day 1 and he didn't follow it then him and Sasaki would have been lynched immediatly. In that situation, trusting Sasaki's to get himself out of the bandwagon would be the obvious choice.
As it stands I can see the following situations
Disco-Sasaki
Makaikhaan-Tincow
Kage-?(seriously, who could it be?)
I can't find any real link between Sarathos and the lynchees plus I simply don't think he is good enough to fool us as completely as this mafia has.
btw, Dear Mafioso, whoever you may be. You have played an excellant game and probably deserve to win regardless of whether we lynch you or not. :bow:
Privateerkev
06-26-2008, 22:42
Yes, but he had already declared he would follow the bandwagon smiley. If it was offered on day 1 and he didn't follow it then him and Sasaki would have been lynched immediatly. In that situation, trusting Sasaki's to get himself out of the bandwagon would be the obvious choice.
But he was still missing when Sasaki was tied for the lynch on D5:
Sasaki Kojiro: 2 (makaikhaan, Seamus Fermanagh)
Kommodus: 2 (Gaius Scribonius Curio, Sigurd Fafnesbane)
Here is D5A:
Sasaki Kojiro: 5 (Ichigo, Seamus Fermanagh, Gaius Scribonius Curio, KukriKhan, CountArach)
Kommodus: 3 (Sasaki Kojiro, discovery1, Sigurd Fafnesbane)
The only person who really tried to save Sasaki was Sigurd who was later murdered.
Also keep in mind that Sasaki abstained in D5 when he was tied for the lynch. My guess is that he was innocent.
Well, there isn't any reason why Kage-pever isn't possible. It was scoffed at before, and it is unlikely, but not impossible.
I would also look for links between any of the surviving 4 and Seamus. I just can't shake the notion that he was our lynched mafioso.
Seamus Fermanagh
06-26-2008, 23:39
The case against 'khaan:
He's a lurker, using a convenient absence just like Andres used a move -- to lay low with a verifiable excuse. In his favor, going that close to WOG status is not a good protection tool -- and a little risky for any mafios.
The case against Sara':
He's a lurker, using absence to lay low. Again, the risk of WOG is a mitigating here as GH WOULD WOG a mafiaoso just as readily as anyone else.
The case against Kage':
Sharp player, always around and pushing but never really taking a coordinated analytical effort. A classic mafia ploy -- being helpful but never quite enough. In his favor, his posting frew and style are fairly close to the baseline.
The case against Disco':
He's managed to vote every other session (more or less) save for these last two. In the past, he's tended to vote more regularly (if just as flippantly) or missed several votes in a row (and has been wogged for same).
Also, if you believe 'Kev is mafia, then Disco' is his partner. Disco is the only one I can think of, aside from Sasaki, who'd consider a "offer up your partner round one so that he's a mostly credible foil" gambit (and Sasaki's not suited to the passive partner role by inclination).
And no, I am not saying this to protect my mafia partner, because I am not/was not a mafioso in this game.
Beefy187
06-27-2008, 00:11
Sarathos posted on BR but not on here :wall:
GeneralHankerchief
06-27-2008, 00:12
Disco is the only one I can think of, aside from Sasaki, who'd consider a "offer up your partner round one so that he's a mostly credible foil" gambit (and Sasaki's not suited to the passive partner role by inclination).
Seamus, I'm mortified! :shocked: I must be slipping.
Privateerkev
06-27-2008, 01:24
Also, if you believe 'Kev is mafia, then Disco' is his partner. Disco is the only one I can think of, aside from Sasaki, who'd consider a "offer up your partner round one so that he's a mostly credible foil" gambit (and Sasaki's not suited to the passive partner role by inclination).
I quite simply do not trust Disco enough to have faith that he could last a whole game without getting himself lynched.
I would trust Sasaki or TC enough to pull that off. But there is no one left alive that I would try that gambit with.
If I was mafia in this game, with Disco as my partner, I would try to stay alive because I would fear that his goofing-off-meatball-votes would get him lynched. :yes:
Gaius Scribonius Curio
06-27-2008, 01:30
IMO, it has to still be Kage or Disco.
I'm still convinced that it is Kage!
So with this in mind... Disco you need to vote Kage to save the town!
(And to make sure... ... ...Gah I can't find it! (The bandwagon smiley that is) This will have to do: :end:)
Seamus Fermanagh
06-27-2008, 01:55
Seamus, I'm mortified! :shocked: I must be slipping.
Apologies mine host!
You have the nerve and the verve to try virtually anything -- and have bested me in single combat when I held all the cards! -- but I failed to list you as you are always the host in these games where the classic 1/2 mafia = 2 kills apply and hence when such a gambit might be valid.
No offense intended.
I quite simply do not trust Disco enough to have faith that he could last a whole game without getting himself lynched.
I would trust Sasaki or TC enough to pull that off. But there is no one left alive that I would try that gambit with.
I appreciate the compliment, but I certainly was trying to not be lynched in this game and that didn't work out so well. While getting yourself intentionally lynched first round is an interesting and absurdly bold strategy for a mafioso duo, it relies so heavily on luck that I would (probably) never try it.
Privateerkev
06-27-2008, 04:07
I appreciate the compliment, but I certainly was trying to not be lynched in this game and that didn't work out so well. While getting yourself intentionally lynched first round is an interesting and absurdly bold strategy for a mafioso duo, it relies so heavily on luck that I would (probably) never try it.
No, I meant I would trust you or Sasaki to stay alive by yourselves as mafia while I go and suicide the first turn.
I certainly wouldn't trust many others enough to live through the whole game alone as mafia.
discovery1
06-27-2008, 04:33
IMO, it has to still be Kage or Disco.
I'm still convinced that it is Kage!
So with this in mind... Disco you need to vote Kage to save the town!
(And to make sure... ... ...Gah I can't find it! (The bandwagon smiley that is) This will have to do: :end:)
Eh, bandwagon only works with it comes the players official vote. That and I think you were mafia. Course I am also starting to suspect Kage.
Also im starting to think that maybe this last round I shouldn't goof off. But if I do that I'm probably dead.
Finally I'm thinking what I will do is just pick a player at random at the last second, or maybe pick on ichi for his bad connection.
Sarathos
06-27-2008, 04:46
So that I have seemingly appeared from nowhere but I have a similar story to Makaikhaan, this is the first time I have been in a computer in about a week. My family insist on travelling a lot on the holidays.....
Another reason why I appeared is that GH pmed me saying that I was one of the last four and needed to vote. It is a critical time and I don't want to dissapoint you guys anymore than I have.
Ichigo
Bid on Ichigo now! Find Animation Art, Characters.
On the ad at the top of the page...
Kommodus
06-27-2008, 06:25
I admit doing well in this game is hard work but to me the fun is in figuring out that which is unknown. As a townie, I want to be a detective and try to glean a vital clue from all the mud in here. I don't mind that the mafia make things difficult. That is their job. But I get tired of townies making the game harder because they are busy, lazy, bored, or whatever. And I don't mean new players. They are excused. But many people here have a pattern of signing up and then not committing to the game, or even worse, trying to mess with the game just for fun.
I would just like to take this opportunity to apologize to GH and all the players for not taking part in this game after signing up. I'm Sorry. :shame:
I want you guys to know, especially those who haven't played with me before, that this is not my normal pattern at all. What can I say? Life is changing, priorities are changing. If I sign up for mafia games in the future, I'll make sure I am able to participate. My ignoble exit from this game was well-deserved.
I've spent some time this evening looking over the missing/added letters in GH's posts. I haven't found a solid clue in them yet, but I would like to point out one thing. In certain cases, a word that is missing letters in one place appears elsewhere with the missing letters added back in. For example, the word "sufficiency" is incorrectly spelled in two places as follows:
suffiency
sufficiciency
So the "ci" is missing in the first case and added in the second.
I've found a total of only four places where this is the case:
suffiency/sufficiciency (missing letters = CI)
comission/commmission (missing letters = M)
extraordinare/extraordinaiire (missing letters = I)
occured/occurrred (missing letters = R)
Add all these together and you get CIMIR. Which means, well, nothing at all to me. :dizzy2:
After reviewing the remaining four suspects, it is my opinion that Kagemusha is mafia. Though it could also be discovery1, given this obviously incorrect reasoning:
Hell our complete and utter lack of participation is a sign of not being mafia. After all, mafia would probably care enough to participate, don't you agree Gaius Scribonius Curio?
Disco has been posting very sparsely all game long, but there haven't been many rounds in which he hasn't posted at all (just one by my count), and he's never been under any sort of pressure. To me, it looks very much like he could be employing a particular strategy.
So either Kagemusha or discovery1. It would probably be better if those who, unlike me, have been paying attention all along to make the choice.
Privateerkev
06-27-2008, 07:15
Disco has been posting very sparsely all game long, but there haven't been many rounds in which he hasn't posted at all (just one by my count), and he's never been under any sort of pressure. To me, it looks very much like he could be employing a particular strategy.
Name|D1|D2|D3|D4|D4TB|D5|D5TB|D6|D7|D8
makaikhaan|voted EF|voted EF|voted TD|voted FH|voted FH|voted sasaki|no vote|no vote|no vote|no vote
Sarathos|voted PK|voted shlin|voted pever|meant to vote MK|voted FH|voted FH|no vote|abstained|no vote|no vote
Kagemusha|voted PK|voted CR|voted pever|abstained|no vote|no vote|no vote|voted seamus|voted FH|voted Curio
discovery1|voted sasaki|no vote|voted sasaki|no vote|voted TC|no vote|voted Komm|voted seamus|no vote|no vote
Disco has missed 5 rounds, not 1. I go by GH's terms for voting. If you post during the day phase at all, but do not vote, he puts you down as "abstain". If you do not post at all during that day phase, then you "didn't vote". So, any "no votes" in my table mean that player was missing for that entire day period.
Sadly Disco's absences aren't the worst. There were WoG's where people had missed at least 6 day phases before being WoG'd. And strangely, there was one WoG (Fenring) that only missed 3. So, I guess GH is not using a set specific criteria for WoGging.
edit: [snip] (table can't be quoted)
There was one WoG (Fenring) that only missed 3.
Really? ...
This paints an interesting picture. My guess is that Fenrig was WoG'ed for 3 consecutive no votes and not 3 in total.
But using that criteria both khaan and Kage should be in trouble.
If you take away the extra votes (tie votes) only khaan is in trouble. To be fair he should meet the same fate that met Fenrig, yet he is still alive.
More lenient towards Mafiosi GH?
Heh, this should be the norm in future games. WoG townies early and mafiosi late. That way the lurking mafiosi will stand out like a sore thumb.
FactionHeir
06-27-2008, 12:12
Hmmm CIMIR.
Up to D5a: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1949210&postcount=804
N6: E
D6: assumed to be complete
N7:
consiidering (added i)
Unfortnately (missing u)
suffciciency (added c)
commmissions (added m)
Extraordinaiire (aaded i)
stuffd (missing e)
occurrred (aaded r)
Can someone find the letters of the rest writeups? Or did Kommodus have a list of all somewhere?
Have we tried to do the letter puzzle, but remove the 'added' letters? For instance, if an I is missing at one point, but then is added later on, have we tried removing the I from the sequence altogether? (I seriously can't remember.)
FactionHeir
06-27-2008, 12:18
In my first linked post I have.
Kagemusha
06-27-2008, 13:55
I still believe that the mafia is Makaikhaan and Tincow. Khaan might have been actually absent while Tincow have orchestrated the mafia actions. It seems more clear more i think about it. Tincow could easily come up with the smokescreen like the word puzzle. Also he seems determined to get me lynched, while he couldnt answer what he is basing his statements like "there is strong evidence against Kagemusha. The thread also gives away that Khaan and Tincow have acted in unison, seemingly protecting one another and voting different persons on different rounds to keep each other alive.
For my part. The strongest defense i can make is that those who know how i play these games, should understand that as mafia i would not put myself in this kind of situation, where im the obvious lynch bait, for example Sarathos, you should know as we have been in the same mafia team. Has it been me the mafia, i would have used Kukri as lynch bait.
To the people who criticise me of not being helpful or not being enough helpful. If being helpful means that i should post voting patterns through out the game or how many posts people make and judge them based on that who is the mafia, i have one word for you, Holmes.
Kommodus can vouch me on this because last time when we were mafia partners, Kommodus run Holmes on me through out the game in testing purposes. His judgement was that i didnt look guilty at all based on that method. So i apologize for not conducting such observation on players via method i think one can fool.
So to Sarathos and disco. Think these things. The main issue being, if i would be mafia, would i have played the end game like this. Also look carefully those who are most eager to get me lynched and try to find a motivation for their behavior. My vote is placed and it will not move, unless something rather amazing happens, think about how well you have thought who you have voted or are going to vote.:bow:
Sarathos
06-27-2008, 14:07
I can't find any real link between Sarathos and the lynchees plus I simply don't think he is good enough to fool us as completely as this mafia has.
:shame:
You have a very good point there Kage, but I am still unsure whether to believe it or not.
I am going to take a risk and Unvote:Kagemusha and Vote:Makaikhaan. I have had time to think this over, Maka using his usual tactics the link between TinCow and Makaikhaan does sound very believable.
While the reasoning may be faulty behind the vote change, I do think that khaan is the best choice between the three lurkers. If we absolutely have to lynch one of those three, he would be my preference as well. I still think Kage is the best choice, but there is still some hope of a victory if khaan is stretched.
Kommodus
06-27-2008, 14:26
Disco has missed 5 rounds, not 1. I go by GH's terms for voting. If you post during the day phase at all, but do not vote, he puts you down as "abstain". If you do not post at all during that day phase, then you "didn't vote". So, any "no votes" in my table mean that player was missing for that entire day period.
I was going by posts during the entire round, including night phases. By that method, disco has missed only one round entirely (I think round 2). I don't recall GH's exact criteria for WoGing, but from memory I think disco's minimalist level of participation would be enough to spare him from the axe.
Tincow could easily come up with the smokescreen like the word puzzle.
See, this is what I don't get about you, Kage. GH promised some sort of "twist" at the start of this game. This is the final round, and the word puzzle is the only candidate we have so far for being that twist. The statements in French are always part of Beirut's pronouncements, not part of the mafia's kills, and in GH's games the mafia have never had the sort of total control over the writeups that would be required to create a word puzzle like this.
So what makes you so convinced that the puzzle is the invention of the mafia?
I tried taking the list of removed letters, then subtracting from that list the letters that were added back into the four words I mentioned in my earlier post (CIMIR). The resulting jumbled list of letters appeared to almost contain the word INVESTIGATE (except that it was short one T; maybe I'd missed something?). After subtracting the letters of the word INVESTIGATE, I was left with the following letters:
SANSUE
Which, again, means nothing to me. :shrug:
EDIT: Also, what do people think of makaikhaan's very long absence? Usually in GH games, both mafiosi have to send in kills in order to get two kills (unless one of them is dead and the survivor is doing everything). Khaan just vanished for an extended period of time. I would like to know why he's under suspicion.
FactionHeir
06-27-2008, 14:29
GH did say in the second french note how not all letters are relevant and some need to be added.
EDIT: Also, what do people think of makaikhaan's very long absence? Usually in GH games, both mafiosi have to send in kills in order to get two kills (unless one of them is dead and the survivor is doing everything). Khaan just vanished for an extended period of time. I would like to know why he's under suspicion.
GH said that if a mafioso was absent, his dead partner could send in orders. That fragged our innocence via absence assumptions:
Figured that I might as well say that if a mafioso is inactive, I'll allow his partner to send in kills for him regardless of state, but that mafioso is still under threat of being Wogged.
Kagemusha
06-27-2008, 14:36
I was going by posts during the entire round, including night phases. By that method, disco has missed only one round entirely (I think round 2). I don't recall GH's exact criteria for WoGing, but from memory I think disco's minimalist level of participation would be enough to spare him from the axe.
See, this is what I don't get about you, Kage. GH promised some sort of "twist" at the start of this game. This is the final round, and the word puzzle is the only candidate we have so far for being that twist. The statements in French are always part of Beirut's pronouncements, not part of the mafia's kills, and in GH's games the mafia have never had the sort of total control over the writeups that would be required to create a word puzzle like this.
So what makes you so convinced that the puzzle is the invention of the mafia?
I tried taking the list of removed letters, then subtracting from that list the letters that were added back into the four words I mentioned in my earlier post (CIMIR). The resulting jumbled list of letters appeared to almost contain the word INVESTIGATE (except that it was short one T; maybe I'd missed something?). After subtracting the letters of the word INVESTIGATE, I was left with the following letters:
SANSUE
Which, again, means nothing to me. :shrug:
EDIT: Also, what do people think of makaikhaan's very long absence? Usually in GH games, both mafiosi have to send in kills in order to get two kills (unless one of them is dead and the survivor is doing everything). Khaan just vanished for an extended period of time. I would like to know why he's under suspicion.
The sole reason being that i dont think GH would mess up mafias game, since this format is hard enough as it is. The word game takes the attention of the smart uns. They focus on it, because they like to solve puzzles and itsd just normal to have a hope off some help even if it wouldnt be there. In my mind it looks like a perfect distraction.
GeneralHankerchief
06-27-2008, 15:20
12 hours left.
Crazed Rabbit
06-27-2008, 17:08
I think it's Kage. Disco is also suspicious, but not as much.
Sarathos - If Makai is mafia that mean's there's two mafiosos left, making this phase meaningless, as someone would've had to send the kill orders to GH. So we can ignore him. (I think, anyway.)
To me, being gone for a week or more is not his usual tactics.
CR
woad&fangs
06-27-2008, 17:18
I am honestly shocked and apalled that it is the end phase and we aren't even using correct information to form our opinions.
The word game is GH's doing. He promised a twist, that is it. It is constantly being referenced in the lynch writeups which the mafia have no control over.
Makaikhaan can be mafia because his dead partner can send kills in his absence.
Makaikhaan going MIA for a week was because of an unexpected event coming up. He thought he would have internet connection and he did not. His absence means nothing towards his innocence or guilt.
okay, ranting over.
Kommodus, could you run a Holmes scan on the remaining 4 players?
Our theory of makaikhaan being mafia revolves around his partner being TinCow. TinCow just said he was okay with makaikhaan being lynched. Is this a clever case of reverse psychology or are they not really partners?
On an individual basis I think Kagemusha is acting the most scummy out of the remaining players but I still can't rap my head around who his partner might be so I've got to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Privateerkev
06-27-2008, 17:31
I agree with CR and W&F.
It's probably Kag.
Lynch him and get this over with.
woad&fangs
06-27-2008, 17:39
But who is his partner?
Privateerkev
06-27-2008, 17:41
But who is his partner?
Don't know. But since his partner is dead, that is less important at the moment.
woad&fangs
06-27-2008, 17:56
Does anyone have a tally from the day Seamus was lynched?
GeneralHankerchief
06-27-2008, 18:04
According to my records, I have it:
Seamus: 5 (Seamus, Kage, Beefy*, discovery1, Sigurd)
KukriKhan: 1 (Curio)
Sigurd: 1 (Kukri)
Abstained: 3 (FH, Ichigo, Sarathos)
Beefy's name is asterisked but I can't remember why. I think it had something to do with him forgetting to unvote.
Keep in mind that the dead mafioso could have been WoGed instead of lynched. This is less likely for the trio of lurkers, due to the (theoretical) need for a dead mafioso to submit kill orders, but it would fit in just fine with Kage.
discovery1
06-27-2008, 20:15
Vote: Makaikhaan
FactionHeir
06-27-2008, 20:40
A vote without any comments? Very scummy.
I'm starting to think we should lynch discovery1 today.
discovery1
06-27-2008, 20:56
as expected heir. Kage talked me into voting for for khaan.
FactionHeir
06-27-2008, 21:09
And you are not going to question his words nor the statement of defense TC made or any of the other comments in this thread such ass those by PK and Kommodus?
Privateerkev
06-27-2008, 21:10
*sigh*
I weep for the town's future...
Eh, at this rate it's probably Sarathos. :laugh4:
Crazed Rabbit
06-27-2008, 23:21
as expected heir. Kage talked me into voting for for khaan.
In the chat? You should now that's a powerful tool for the mafia to convince people.
CR
Crazed Rabbit
06-28-2008, 01:06
Also, Kage's defense has rested heavily on his WIFOM assertion that he would not kill townies so as to leave three lurkers left.
After Mafia I, he told me he killed townies working from a random list. Now, if he followed that strategy, which lead to victory before, again he could easily end up with having three lurkers and himself left.
CR
Gaius Scribonius Curio
06-28-2008, 02:39
*sigh*
You're making a big mistake. Echoing what CR, PK and Tincow have said above, it has to Kage. Its my personal opinion that he left himself with three lurkers hoping that they wouldn't show up and that if they did he could talk them round.
Congratulations remaining townies... you're being strung along.
What a dismal ending.
GeneralHankerchief
06-28-2008, 03:20
Voting over.
Stand by for the execution.
Kommodus
06-28-2008, 03:31
Should've lynched Kage. :no:
Beefy187
06-28-2008, 03:49
Should've lynched Kage. :no:
seconded
GeneralHankerchief
06-28-2008, 03:54
Sunset.
Mist swirled around the town square as the lonely four little townies were casting their votes, adding to the gloomy atmosphere present. Even though the mafia had only been present for a little over a week, their effectiveness was excellent. Nature was already beginning to reclaim the Frontroom. Gardens were overgrown. Weeds were beginning to pop up between the various cracks in the concrete. Strands of ivy spread, unchecked.
None of this was of any concern to Chief of Police Beirut, however, or his four remaining charges. Again, the swirling mist seemed to have more of a voice than the four lonely townies, but this was because there were only four of them left. Four of them. A seemingly weak bulwark against the mist that threatened to engulf and swallow them all up, but all they had was each other.
And not even that. For out of those four, one, possibly even two of them, was the one who had brought the pestilence in the first place. They were all leaning on each other, but if the one stepped away, they would all collapse. That was the town's goal on this misty evening, to find the saboteur. The killer. Find the killer, and pray that it was the right one, that it was the right one and that they had already gotten his partner.
Discussion was mostly quiet. The two opposing sides, Kagemusha and makaikhaan, had cast their votes against each other early. Their arguments had been made to discovery1 and Sarathos; khaan in his voice of reason and Kage in his desperate pleas, trying to do some last-minute detective work. Too little, too late, perhaps, unless it was one last deception before his final blow. Disco and Sarathos listened silently, deliberated, and one after another, shuffled to the voting booth and dropped the little papers in. After this task had been completed, Beirut walked over, equally silently. No formal proclamation was needed. They were all past that.
He read the votes after taking them out of the box.
"makaikhaan."
It was all that was said. It was all that needed to be said.
khaan's reaction was understated, as was appropriate. He simply buried his face in his hands and paused, not walking up to the execution platform. Not yet. Beirut took him by the arm and together they walked to the execution platform, with Beirut not so much dragging him as he had done so many people in the past, but rather helping him.
No speeches. No formal announcement of the votes. The two men stood up there on the platform, with three more watching below. The dozens of souls that had been there before, stood there in the past, were also present, also silently watching. It was over quickly. Beirut flashed his knife, slit khaan's throat, and watched as he dropped and his life slowly ended.
All of them watched as khaan's blood seeped off the platform and onto the town square proper. Would it be the last blood spilled?
Without official dismissal, the last three townies went their separate ways and walked home through the mist, hoping it wouldn't swallow them up whole.
Four little townies ready to be free,
But they still had work to do and thus they were three;
Three little townies, all just about done,
All of them hoping there wouldn't be one.
Day 9 tally:
makaikhaan: 3 (Kagemusha, Sarathos, discovery1) :skull:
Kagemusha: 1 (makaikhaan)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Still alive: (3)
Sarathos
Kagemusha
discovery1
Suicide/Wrath of God:
|Sith|R|AntiWarmanCake88
Mithrandir
Fenring
Lord Winter
georgeman51
Caius
Tiberius of the Drake
Kommodus
Killed:
Tratorix
Omanes Alexandrapolites
Andres
Craterus
LittleGrizzly
TevashSzat
Crazed Rabbit
woad&fangs
Rythmic
Quintus.J.Cicero
shlin28
RoadKill
CountArach
Joe Monks
Beefy187
Sigurd Fafnesbane
KukriKhan
Ichigo
Executed:
Privateerkev
Elite Ferret
peverpink
TinCow
Sasaki Kojiro
Seamus Fermanagh
FactionHeir
Gaius Scribonius Curio
makaikhaan
~~~~~~~~~
If you have a role, please don't spoil the surprise until the final scene is posted until tomorrow. You're in my game a little while longer, I may as well keep you in suspense until then. :evilgrin:
Gaius Scribonius Curio
06-28-2008, 03:58
I agree with CR and W&F.
It's probably Kag.
Lynch him and get this over with.
On an individual basis I think Kagemusha is acting the most scummy out of the remaining players but I still can't rap my head around who his partner might be so I've got to give him the benefit of the doubt.
I think it's Kage...
CR
Should've lynched Kage. :no:
seconded
In agreement with all of the above. Since we all know it's him, why the suspense GH???
GeneralHankerchief
06-28-2008, 04:01
All right, we'll compromise. I won't wait the full 24 hours before posting the final scene.
Crazed Rabbit
06-28-2008, 06:42
Blast.
CR
*waits for the katana killings*
seireikhaan
06-28-2008, 11:01
:rant:
I was lynched for what exactly? Congrats, Kage, you pulled it again. :bow:
GeneralHankerchief
06-28-2008, 16:02
While we're waiting, allow me to plug Omanes's new game The Brothel (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=105042). It's a little bit of a change of pace, being themed and having a few more roles for the players that like that.
It needs players, so head on over and sign up!
FactionHeir
06-28-2008, 16:09
Killfr3nzy also needs more players and I think w&f's game needs one more too.
GeneralHankerchief
06-28-2008, 21:57
All right, here we go.
Final scene is incoming.
GeneralHankerchief
06-28-2008, 23:03
Day breaks in the Frontroom. All is quiet.
They were three: Sarathos, the innocent. discovery1, the goof. Kagemusha, the target.
Sarathos, the innocent, had spent the night in a 24-hour diner, ordering coffee every now and then from a counter waiter that didn't exist. Exhaustion and fear had propelled him to this state. He would order to thin air, wait five minutes, remember that he was due a coffee, and then realize that the place was deserted. Sighing, he would pour himself a coffee and munch on whatever was easiest to prepare. Once the effects of the caffeine wore off, he would repeat the process.
He was unarmed. His back was to the door, unless he had turned around on his stool and was staring out the windows. He was unprepared for a mafia assault, but was all too ready for death. If it came, it came. Maybe then he would see his dead friends.
"Coffee," he said to no one in particular. "Fill 'er up."
A pause.
"Oh yeah."
He forced himself off his stool and trudged parallel to the counter, heading to the point where he could turn and get to the coffee machine. He was pouring himself another cup when the little bells above the diner's door jingled.
In entered discovery1, the goof, looking wild-eyed and very much awake.
"Ah," he said in a jittery voice, "You've got coffee, eh? Good idea. This'll keep us awake and make for a good weapon." He pushed Sarathos out of the way and headed straight for the coffee maker, making some funny motions with his hands as he poured himself a cup. He took a huge swig, shook his head, and then refilled his cup.
"A good weapon against who?" Sarathos asked.
"Against Kage, of course!" Disco said. "Didn't you hear them last night?"
"Hear who?"
"The spirits, of course! Weren't they keeping you up?! They were whispering to me, saying that we had chosen wrong. That Kage was coming to kill us. That we had failed them and that we were all dead!"
"I think you're nuts. You're just trying to lull me into a false sense of security," Sarathos said.
"Maybe I am," Disco said, a crazy grin lighting up on his face. "But then again, I could just kill you now. Look at you, you're a mess. And you're unarmed. Not the best use in a fight." And before Sarathos could say anything, Disco suddenly changed course. "I'm going to the bathroom," he said, taking his coffee with him.
Sarathos was unamused. "Hide the shotgun behind the toilet, did you? How unoriginal of you." Disco merely laughed as he walked through the men's room door.
Sarathos calmly sipped his coffee when the bells jingled once again. Kagemusha entered, carrying a massive katana and searching for signs of life.
"BYAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!"
Out of nowhere, the bathroom door flung open and discovery1 flew out, running as fast as he could. Once in range, he flung his coffee at Kage's face. It made contact, of course, spilling the hot drink all over. Disco wasn't finished, however, not stopping his charge until he had sent both himself and Kage flying.
"OW!" Kage screamed, trying to get the coffee off his face. "What on earth are you doing, you crazy idiot? You could have gotten me killed!!!"
"That's the idea," Disco said calmly, or as calmly as one could be after running out of a bathroom, screaming a battle cry, and tackling somebody. "Better you than me!"
"It's not either of us!" Kage protested.
"Well then, who is it? Sarathos?"
"No. If you shut up and listen, I'll tell you. Sarathos, you two. Come on over." Deliberately as ever, Sarathos made his way from his stool to near the door of the diner. Together the three sat, Kage with his katana, Sarathos with his coffee, and Disco with... well, his wits.
"All right," Kage continued, "So I've been doing some thinking. One of the killers has a broken nose, right?"
"Right," the other two said in unison.
"And none of us do, right?"
"Right."
"BUT. The broken nose killer was definitely active yesterday, right?"
"Yeah, he nailed Kukri."
"Exactly," said Kage. "And possibly Ichigo too, but we don't know for sure on that one since it was a drive-by. But we definitely got at least one."
"Okay, so what about the other?"
"Well," said Kage, "Think about it. With Ichigo's kill yesterday, it was a drive-by. The killer had his face masked by the fedora. This is the first time it happened, since before the killer was always smiling and engaging his victims in conversation. It's how we could distinguish between the two killers. But that didn't happen last time."
"So what does it mean?"
"Thinking logically, there were six of us before Kukri and Ichigo died. One of us was definitely mafia. But, if two of us were... why didn't they go for it all? If there was a ratio of two mafiosi to four townies, what would have happened yesterday is they could have killed Kukri and Ichigo as normal. It would have then been 2:2, and nothing could have stopped the mafia from simply shooting us at the execution, and Beirut too, for good measure. So the other mafioso had to have died before yesterday."
"This is all very good," said discovery1, "But you're leaving a possibility out."
"What's that?"
"Suppose the broken nose mafioso died first. That just left the well-dressed mafioso, who could have faked the broken nose to fool the town. Nobody would know since his nose would look fine up close, right?"
Everybody froze. Could this mean - could this mean they had failed?
"Just fooling. C'mon, let's call up Beirut and tell him what's up." Together they walked to the diner's phone and watched as Kage dialed the numbers to Beirut's office.
"Frontroom police department," Chief of Police Beirut answered. "What's up?"
"Beirut, it's Kage. The three of us are at the diner. I think we're safe."
"Well, Kage, that's an interesting thought. My buddy Officer Clegane with the OBI called me last night after the execution and said the wiretappers had given him some interesting evidence. According to him, two people stood out and they had been making incriminating calls."
There was a pause. Everyone in the diner looked at each other, instinctively. "Well?" Kage demanded. "Who were they?!"
"They were...
...
...
...
...
...
...
...Gaius Scribonius Curio and makaikhaan."
"So we're saved then."
"Yeah, guess so," Beirut said nonchalantly over the phone. "Congrats, boys. You survived."
The diner erupted with whooping. Three men, three little townies who had been through hell, made enough noise for the entire town. Here they were, in a diner, ready for death, and they had lived through it. They had made it. But... there was still one thing nagging at them.
"Beirut," Sarathos said through the phone, "How come the OBI involved themselves in this? They've never done this sort of thing before."
"Ah," the Chief of Police said, "I contacted them when I realized that we had no resident Detective."
"What?" There was no Detective? Impossible!
"Yeah, how about that? I tried to tell you guys that we were 'sans investigateur' but nobody picked up on my hint! Oh, well, guess it doesn't matter to you boys now."
Beirut hung up, leaving the three of them to celebrate. Both this day and many others, they had survived.
Three little townies who were finally free,
After many tough nights, they were still three.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Here is the final status list. Congrats to those who survived.
Survived: (3)
Sarathos
Kagemusha
discovery1
Suicide/Wrath of God:
|Sith|R|AntiWarmanCake88
Mithrandir
Fenring
Lord Winter
georgeman51
Caius
Tiberius of the Drake
Kommodus
Killed:
Tratorix
Omanes Alexandrapolites
Andres
Craterus
LittleGrizzly
TevashSzat
Crazed Rabbit
woad&fangs
Rythmic
Quintus.J.Cicero
shlin28
RoadKill
CountArach
Joe Monks
Beefy187
Sigurd Fafnesbane
KukriKhan
Ichigo
Executed:
Privateerkev
Elite Ferret
peverpink
TinCow
Sasaki Kojiro
Seamus Fermanagh
FactionHeir
Gaius Scribonius Curio
makaikhaan
Result:
TOWNSPEOPLE VICTORY! :medievalcheers:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Congrats on another great game, everybody!!! :yes: Are you surprised? I must admit, I thought the mafia had it in the bag, but once again, the town came through. Let's have a big round of applause to khaan and Curio for giving it their all! :cheerleader:
Commentary plus a special guide on the lost letters is coming up.
GeneralHankerchief
06-28-2008, 23:03
And now, that the game is over, it's time for the traditional "console the gallant losers" commercial, a la the Super Bowl.
khaan and Curio are walking a lonely path, muttering. They are so deep in misery that they miss the sign that says "Land of former Frontroom Mafiosi."
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/avatars/mtw/Pag/Misc/misc01.gif
I can't believe we lost.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/avatars/rtw/Rom_gen/Roman_general_140.gif
I know. It's going to take a while to heal from this one.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/avatars/mtw/Pag/Misc/misc01.gif
What gets me is how close we came to victory.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/avatars/rtw/Rom_gen/Roman_general_140.gif
We were going great! Right up until -
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/avatars/rtw/m/RTW_100.gif
The eighth and ninth rounds?
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/avatars/mtw/Pag/Misc/misc01.gif https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/avatars/rtw/Rom_gen/Roman_general_140.gif
Huh? Who said that?!
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/avatars/rtw/m/RTW_100.gif
I did. Been there, done that.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/avatars/rtw/Bar_gen/Barbarian_general_145.gif
We all have.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/avatars/custom/avatar4.gif
Welcome to infamy, friends. We share your pain.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/avatars/rtw/Rom_gen/Roman_general_140.gif
So you all lost too, huh?
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/avatars/rtw/Bar_gen/Barbarian_general_145.gif
Yes.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/avatars/rtw/m/RTW_100.gif
Spectacularly.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/avatars/custom/avatar4.gif
And the thing we all have in common is -
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/avatars/rtw/m/RTW_100.gif
We all had it.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/avatars/custom/avatar4.gif
Had it.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/avatars/rtw/Bar_gen/Barbarian_general_145.gif
In the palm of our hands.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/avatars/rtw/m/RTW_100.gif
Had it in the palm of our hands.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/avatars/rtw/Bar_gen/Barbarian_general_145.gif
Until it all...
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/avatars/custom/avatar4.gif
...went wrong.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/avatars/rtw/m/RTW_100.gif https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/avatars/rtw/Bar_gen/Barbarian_general_145.gif https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/avatars/custom/avatar4.gif
Until it all went wrong.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/avatars/mtw/Pag/Misc/misc01.gif
And you just wish you could go back and do it over?
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/avatars/mtw/cat/Assassin/assassin03.gif
More than anything. Even me, though they forget...
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/avatars/rtw/Rom_gen/Roman_general_140.gif
What happened with you?
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/avatars/mtw/cat/Assassin/assassin03.gif
My team got nailed by a Detective reveal after someone had already confessed. We thought we were safe.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/avatars/rtw/m/RTW_100.gif
After seven rounds of smooth sailing, my team just stopped functioning. I can't explain how, but we just... lost it.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/avatars/rtw/Bar_gen/Barbarian_general_145.gif
My team did a fake Detective reveal and lynched my partner for it. Then they turned around, believed him, and lynched me next.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/avatars/rtw/m/RTW_100.gif
After you put the deciding vote on your buddy.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/avatars/rtw/Bar_gen/Barbarian_general_145.gif
After I put the deciding vote on my buddy.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/avatars/custom/avatar4.gif
After slipping under the radar for the entire game, my buddy got nailed by a profiling system the second-to-last round. I was next, of course.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/avatars/mtw/cat/Assassin/assassin03.gif
But the thing we all had in common was...
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/avatars/custom/avatar4.gif
We were so close.
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So close.
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We were so close.
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Until it got taken away from us.
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So we've all been in your position.
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And we welcome you among our company.
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Thanks, we feel a lot better!
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Ha ha! More fresh meat!
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What's the matter, boys? Couldn't go the distance?
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*sigh* The drinks are over this way.
woad&fangs
06-28-2008, 23:07
So Kukri saved us with his last second vote switch to Curio:medievalcheers:
That explains why Kukri got offed at the end.:laugh4:
Curio and Makaikhaan, you guys were very good mafioso. :bow:
FactionHeir
06-28-2008, 23:35
Hmmm looks like Kage was innocent afterall. :shame:
Craterus
06-28-2008, 23:35
Wow, good game all.
Beefy187
06-29-2008, 00:13
Ok ill bang my head on the wall for unintentionally helping the mafia... :wall:
Well played mafia. Very well played last 3 survivors! :2thumbsup:
Thanks for hosting GH
That's a pleasant surprise. Well done to both, with an extra bravo to Kage who did a good job fending off us incorrect deaders.
Crazed Rabbit
06-29-2008, 00:31
Well done town!
Good of you to ignore me!
And a rightly earned defeat for a lurking mafia! :inquisitive:
Funny how the mafia so often goes down in flames in the last two rounds in GH's games.
CR
GeneralHankerchief
06-29-2008, 00:38
Funny how the mafia so often goes down in flames in the last two rounds in GH's games.
I'm starting to think that this isn't a coincidence but rather an effect of the way my games are set up.
In strictly mafia vs. town games, the beginning game is strictly for knocking the numbers down. Bandwagons and uncertainty rules, and the lynches are solely to move the game on. This stage usually ends with the first round of WoGs.
The midgame is where the data begins to be collected. Here people start to vote for real and have productive discussions. It's here where they begin to get an idea of who the mafia might or might not be.
This trend continues until the endgame, where the data is analyzed. Naturally, with lack of distractions, connections are made and oddities in behavior are pointed out. The endgame usually happens with about 2 or 3 rounds to go, so the town had better be good at analyzing that data. Usually, however, it isn't wrong, and I think that's why every mafia team seems to stumble around this time.
discovery1
06-29-2008, 00:44
discovery1, the goof.
Aw hell yeah.
Curio was mafia. Suspected it as soon as he pounced on me, and then for some odd reason sent me a pm apologizing. Hmmm, wonder if I can generalize that....
seireikhaan
06-29-2008, 00:46
Gar... Well done writeup GH!! It is rather painful, though, so close....
My absence from the .org was completely unplanned. I'd had no intention of trying to win the game by going ultra close(and perhaps deserving) of WoG. However, I could not refuse an offer of vacation up to the northeast one last time with my buddy before college, and, being left out to dry regarding internet, was just glad that I was still alive when I was able to pick up internet at one of my buddy's relative's houses in Pennsylvania. We were still getting back yesterday and very early today, which is why I didn't try to defend myself.
Anyways, here's our horribly missnamed (http://www.quicktopic.com/42/H/pBQNwDAfnta8v) quicktopic thread, due to me being a complete numnutz when I was making it.
I'm still wondering what would've happened if I'd been able to stay active though...I just wish I has survived one more eeny teeny little round. I had a suitable death in store for Disco for the next night.
Thanks GH for the incredible game! It was a blast to play(well, at least so long as I was playing), and was truly an honor to be mafioso.
Edit: FWIW, I'm also wondering about Curio's last kills; I'd sent in orders for Sarathos and Disco ASAP once I'd gotten back online and given the end of the thread a quick once-over, but was literally about 2 minutes late. Curio played a wonderful game overall, but I feel made a fatal mistake in killing Kukri...
Kommodus
06-29-2008, 01:52
Wow, nice work town! You guys finished well - especially Kagemusha, who despite being a high-profile target managed to avoid the noose and convince the remaining townies to listen to him! Thanks for not listening to my stupid, off-the-mark suggestions! :laugh4:
And excellent work by the mafia; surviving that long into the game is no trifling accomplishment!
A big thanks to our host, GH, for another game brilliantly hosted. Truly sorry I couldn't participate more. Doesn't look like I'll be able to play mafia in the forseeable future. Maybe I'll be back someday.
Hm, looks like I was kinda-sorta close on the word puzzle thing. I kept looking for a clue to the identity of the mafia in the remaining letters after INVESTIGATE was taken out. No such luck though! :laugh4:
BTW, Monsieur GeneralH: That "console the gallant losers" commercial was truly hilarious! Brilliant! :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
Privateerkev
06-29-2008, 02:25
Good work Curio and Khaan! :bow:
I wasn't sniffing around Curio until the very end. And Khaan, while had my radar going off at first, put me at ease with his real life absence.
And a big congrats to Kag for surviving despite all of us piling onto him. :2thumbsup:
My "suicide on turn 1" trick turned out to be so-so. It was an interesting experiment but it had mixed results. While it allowed me the freedom to tackle who ever I wanted, without fear of being lynched/killed, it also kept the town from fully trusting me. It would have been better if I was killed on night 1, but after what happened in Drunken-lawyer, I think people have learned that murdering me on N1 is one of the worst things you can do. Because I don't go away and I am proven innocent. :beam:
Gaius Scribonius Curio
06-29-2008, 02:42
Well played townies, particularly Kagemusha. :bow:
Yes my fatal mistake was to kill Kukri, rather than thinking it through. Having said that I wasn't expecting Khann to come back from the grave so wanted to get my vengeance before the end-game. The horrifying death scene was mostly mine, although GH polished it up (massively I'm not very good at write-ups).
Was surprised at the lack of suspicion of me, particularly since my post count was completely different to my other games (ironically really down to RL), and even after my death by lynching only Kage and Disco seemed to genuinely think I was mafia... I'm confused. :dizzy2:
Disappointed to come so close, but again well-played town!
(Will have more comments later just today is kind of busy so, laters!)
LittleGrizzly
06-29-2008, 02:53
Good work town, well played Gauis and Khaan.
Don't now how everyone managed to not listen and didn't vote for Kagemusha but thank god they did, i would have voted for kagemusha... i wasn't sure though...
Good Game GH!
GeneralHankerchief
06-29-2008, 03:44
FWIW, I'm also wondering about Curio's last kills; I'd sent in orders for Sarathos and Disco ASAP once I'd gotten back online and given the end of the thread a quick once-over, but was literally about 2 minutes late. Curio played a wonderful game overall, but I feel made a fatal mistake in killing Kukri...
I think Curio got a bit cocky, to tell you the truth. Prior to his killing Kukri, I had sent him a PM basically laughing at what a farce the round was going to be, since (we were assuming Kage was the sure lynch at this point) it would be decided by whether you showed up or not. He agreed, and privately told me he wasn't banking on you coming back. Hence the kill.
A big thanks to our host, GH, for another game brilliantly hosted. Truly sorry I couldn't participate more. Doesn't look like I'll be able to play mafia in the forseeable future. Maybe I'll be back someday.
Aww... that's a bummer. We'll miss you, man. :thumbsdown: Need someone to take care of Holmes while you're away?
BTW, Monsieur GeneralH: That "console the gallant losers" commercial was truly hilarious! Brilliant!
Thanks. :laugh4: I learned while doing that that you're only allowed 50 images per post. :dizzy2:
My "suicide on turn 1" trick turned out to be so-so. It was an interesting experiment but it had mixed results. While it allowed me the freedom to tackle who ever I wanted, without fear of being lynched/killed, it also kept the town from fully trusting me. It would have been better if I was killed on night 1, but after what happened in Drunken-lawyer, I think people have learned that murdering me on N1 is one of the worst things you can do. Because I don't go away and I am proven innocent.
Yeah, that move was definitely a head-scratcher for me. I'll have more about it in the commentary.
Kagemusha
06-29-2008, 10:38
Great game GH.:bow:Thanks to mafia and town for making it a a blast, worthy game to come back from my mafia retirement. Also thanks disco and Sarathos for listening to me, while it seemed everything was stacked against town victory in the end.~:cheers:
Seamus Fermanagh
06-29-2008, 15:13
Well done!
As always, the mafia series NEVER fails to provide wonderful twists and turns without any of the fripperies the rest of us resort to. The best of the best.
I've always regretted the "deciding" vote on my partner thing. At the time, I thought it necessary as my vote switch would (I thought) have marked me and killed us both. Instead, I killed my partner and got little credit as a good guy for it. I had :wall: found another way to lose....
KukriKhan
06-29-2008, 15:58
I've returned home after some sad family business. What a wonderful end-game.
My last-minute vote-switch from Kage to Curio was based 50% on p-Kev's vote table and analysis (he suggested, incredulously, that Curio could be mafia; the table's numbers bore that out), and 50% intuition from reading Kage's defense of himself.
In sum: a "happy accident".
So, we were without a detective the entire game (that being the 'twist')? Or lost the detective early to a lucky mafia kill (making the word-puzzle the 'twist')?
Bravo to Curio and M-khaan mafia players; through luck and pluck, you made this a very interesting game.
And major 'props to GH for an extremely well-run, brilliantly-written, screenplay. :bow:
GeneralHankerchief
06-29-2008, 16:07
There was never a Detective to begin with. The word puzzle was a way of letting you guys know gradually. Unfortunately, it never really played out. Not like it mattered! :laugh4:
Privateerkev
06-29-2008, 16:28
My last-minute vote-switch from Kage to Curio was based 50% on p-Kev's vote table and analysis (he suggested, incredulously, that Curio could be mafia; the table's numbers bore that out), and 50% intuition from reading Kage's defense of himself.
I'm glad you listened to the data in the table, rather than to me. I'm happy that all the work I put into that table bore some fruit. The same kind of thing happened in drunk-lawyer. In that game, analyzing the votes found the last mafia.
Voting is one of those ways people truly interact with the game. And it is a way to get beyond the "fluff" and "smoke" of a person's posts. It is by no means perfect, but analyzing the voting has proven far more fruitful than any other form of analysis, other than a detective reveal of course.
Crazed Rabbit
06-29-2008, 18:16
There was never a Detective to begin with. The word puzzle was a way of letting you guys know gradually. Unfortunately, it never really played out. Not like it mattered! :laugh4:
Extra kudos to the town then.
Also, to help slightly redeem myself, in this post (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1953648&postcount=946) I listed Makai as most suspicious. But then his long absence threw me.
Again, well done to Kage.
CR
KukriKhan
06-29-2008, 18:59
The horrifying death scene was mostly mine, although GH polished it up (massively I'm not very good at write-ups).
So, it was true that mafia could/did contribute to the death-scene write-ups. I recall asking that question (because then they could fake/twist the calling cards: broken nose, fedora, etc.), but no one gave an opinion on the matter - so I assumed it was just a dumb question on my part. And I assumed GH couldn't or wouldn't respond, because it could give too much away.
From now on, I'll assume the kill-scenes have ghost-writer help.
Pannonian
06-29-2008, 19:05
So, it was true that mafia could/did contribute to the death-scene write-ups. I recall asking that question (because then they could fake/twist the calling cards: broken nose, fedora, etc.), but no one gave an opinion on the matter - so I assumed it was just a dumb question on my part. And I assumed GH couldn't or wouldn't respond, because it could give too much away.
From now on, I'll assume the kill-scenes have ghost-writer help.
IIRC the murder scenes for Mafia III were pretty much written word for word by Kommodus. Back then, the mafia could fake calling cards, as they faked a missing mafioso after The Spartan was lynched. Nowadays, I think GH enforces calling cards.
seireikhaan
06-29-2008, 19:11
So, it was true that mafia could/did contribute to the death-scene write-ups. I recall asking that question (because then they could fake/twist the calling cards: broken nose, fedora, etc.), but no one gave an opinion on the matter - so I assumed it was just a dumb question on my part. And I assumed GH couldn't or wouldn't respond, because it could give too much away.
From now on, I'll assume the kill-scenes have ghost-writer help.
Not necessarily. I did absolutely nothing in regards to my kills; I left it entirely to GH, as I wanted to make sure that I didn't accidentally leave something in the writeup that would indicate my guilt. I figured enough people have seen my writeups in the past, as both a host and mafioso, that I would risk being identified if I did them myself. All I did was send in a target.
We won :jumping:
But not thanks to me... :shame: Kukri was my prime suspect throughout the game and after he got killed, I thought disco was the last mafioso :sweatdrop:
Kudos to makaikhaan and Curio :bow: Well played ~:cheers:
HAHAHA...
Good game. I can't say I contributed to our victory.
I was convinced that it was either Kage or Khaan, but I couldn't have made the choice.
Hehe, you should have left me instead of Kage... I think Sarathos and Disco would have lynched me instead of Khaan. :smartass2:
We want the game commentary :stare:
GeneralHankerchief
06-30-2008, 20:41
We want the game commentary :stare:
khaan celebrates by going on a vacation with his friend; I'm celebrating by watching all 6 Star Wars movies with a few buddies tomorrow. :laugh4: So I'm trying to get it all done by the end of today.
Privateerkev
06-30-2008, 20:44
Episodes 1-3 really suck...
And I say this as a HUGE fan of the original 3...
GeneralHankerchief
06-30-2008, 20:59
They do, but if we don't include them then it's not really much of an endurance test. Plus, there's the added motivation to stick with watching. "Hey, yeah, it's boring now, but we have Empire Strikes Back to look forward to later!"
...yeah, back to work, GH. :whip:
Quintus.JC
06-30-2008, 22:14
My first Mafia game ended in victory, not that I contributed to any of that.
Where are my manners, thanks for hosting GeneralHankerchief :bow:
Privateerkev
06-30-2008, 22:22
They do, but if we don't include them then it's not really much of an endurance test.
Watching Jar Jar tests my endurance... and my patience... :brood:
GeneralHankerchief
07-01-2008, 01:19
To make up for my lack of commentary for Mafia VII (I still have part of it done, somewhere...), I’ve written two for this round. One of them pertains to the “twist,” which as you know by now pertains to the “lost letters” and what they stood for. The first part of that is pretty much an essay on why I did it, the second, how to go by solving it. The other is in the usual mold.
On the Detective, why I removed it from the game, and the letters:
I’ve been noticing a trend in games recently. Usually, they start with the Detective investigating a high-profile target, generally Sasaki, in Round 1. The Detective reveals privately to Sasaki if he’s innocent and a pro-town group begins to form. If Sasaki’s guilty, the Detective reports his findings to the town and Sasaki does everything he can to discredit him. Hilarity ensues, but it usually ends up with two power roles gone.
Taking Sasaki out of the equation for the moment, I’ve seen more and more games where the Detective’s “investigate” list has been a who’s-who of Mafia vets and people that are generally considered “good” players. What these Detectives are doing is going off and doing work based on reputation, not thread behavior. Bad game tactics, IMHO.
Another thing that bothers me is the aspect of revealing privately. My games are well-known for barring any sort of private rule, but many do not have that in place. What usually happens is that all the power roles plus investigated innocents get together, become the “in crowd” for that game, and make a forum on Quicktopic to discuss things without fear of mafia corruption. In essence, they generally become a second mafia faction, an organized group that knows more than the rest of the people. This means there are three factions in any game where the host had designed there to only be two: The mafia, the elite town, and the normal townies who are doomed to die between the mafia’s killing spree and the elite town’s lynching efforts. Occasionally, when there’s ambiguity in Detective results (Stig’s Beer Salesman game) or out-and-out trickery (TinCow’s brilliant play in Netherworld) these groups can be infiltrated, but this is the exception rather than the norm. One might argue that it’s the next step for the good players, to be able to take out these groups from the inside, but a game of Mafia boiled down to its simplest definition is an informed minority trying to defeat an uninformed majority. Private reveals and what follows throw this out of whack.
This made me start thinking about the history of the Detective in my own game as well as its necessity. Take a ride, children, back to the prehistoric days of .Org Mafia, back before the Gameroom existed, to Mafia I.
The posts were few, and most of them were joking around, with absolutely no real detective (lowercase “d”) work being done. I think the players, to a man, had never played a game of internet mafia before. Kagemusha gets a lot of credit for being able to survive and deliver the game for the mafia, but really, it was only me throwing the odds significantly in the town’s favor for the final round (cryptic PMs to the innocents, a double execution, and letting the dead vote) that gave the town any resemblance of a chance in that game. I knew for Mafia II that something needed to be done, fairly, that helped the town a bit. Thus, the Detective was born.
In Mafia II, it did exactly what it was supposed to do. Tiberius, the first ever .Org Detective, fingered a mafioso, Lemur, mid-game and revealed a few rounds later, providing a catastrophic blow to the mafia’s chances. The first signs of decent townie play emerged late in that game, with Sasaki’s false claim (his first of many :laugh4:) giving Tiberius room to operate, and Kommodus’s primitive vote-indexing system Watson fingering Lemur shortly before Tib revealed, but ultimately it was the Detective that doomed the mafia in that game. Mission accomplished.
The town started taking over as the main threat beginning in Mafia III, and consequently, the Detective’s importance and ineffectiveness dropped off. Crazed Rabbit lasted nine rounds and helped push town opinion towards lynching Kommodus in III, but in truth he was extremely unlucky and not the deciding factor (although to be fair, it wasn’t the town either, but more of a massive mafia choke – sorry to bring back bad memories, K). In IV, the game was over before Reenk Roink got a chance to do anything. Banquo’s Ghost was quickly lynched in V, Orb was killed something like Round 2 in VI, and sapi was killed mid-game in VII without any significant information to his name. Really, after Mafia II, the Detective was little more than a nominal threat to the mafia, just another townie with a little more at stake.
I think, looking back, I had meant to put the Detective in only temporarily as the town got stronger and more experience. Think of it as a crutch – when your leg is broken, you lean on it. But all the while, that leg is gaining strength and eventually, it heals. You don’t need to crutch anymore; as a matter of fact, continued reliance on it is bad for you. I think I lost that mentality somewhere in the tumult of Tiberius’s reveal and my “will it be this round?” speculation of Crazed Rabbit in Mafia III. I think it’s time, unless it’s a complicated game with a lot of ambiguity involved – say, Midgard II for example - that the Detective role be dropped. The town’s smart enough now, the only problem is that they can be lazy. Realizing that they need to take the initiative might remedy that. Looking back, I think the town would have been more active had I told them there wouldn’t be a Detective from the beginning.
So why didn’t I? Shock value, for one. Ideally, I would have liked the mystery to have been solved mid-to-end game, have the town realizing that they weren’t getting any deus ex machina help, and have them buckle down and do some serious work to make for another spectacular GH endgame. Secondly, I wasn’t sure how many players I was getting. If we didn’t get very many, I would have probably left the Detective in there. If we got some, I might have taken him out but told everyone. We got 38 players, however, a very good amount, so I decided to go forward with the clues.
I was thinking of a good way to do this when khaan and Curio sent me their N1 kill descriptions. Curio didn’t ask for much – just generally the running theme of a man wearing a trenchcoat and fedora and being cheerful (and later on, Cuban cigars). Khaan gave me total freedom. This was all I needed. Starting N2 I believe, I began subtly removing letters from kill and lynch descriptions, letters that would spell out “Sans investigateur,” or, roughly translated from French, “Without Detective.” This went unnoticed until the N3 writeup with TevashSzat’s epic death and my note telling everyone to find the lost letters.
(Random tangent: I originally translated “investigator” to “investigateur” due to dictionary.com’s online translator. About a round or two later, after I had already placed I, N, and V down, I translated it via the site’s French-English dictionary and got enquêteur, which was less obvious and would have worked better. Oh, well, at least I got the grammar of the initial note right.)
The general plan for this mystery was to lay down the initial clue in N3, have the town get on the track with the letters about a round later, and then have them figure out the message about midway through the overall game. They were quicker than I expected, so I had a lot of fun screwing around with their heads by alternating the amount of letters missing in the descriptions and having khaan’s mafioso continue to talk through his broken nose, lending some credibility to that argument, initially made by Ichigo. The way to figure out the true missing letters from the red herrings was spelled out in the two French notes provided to the town.
As noted over the course of the game, there were three different types of “errors” made in the writeups:
Words with missing letters in them
Words with extra letters
Words with letters switched around
Early on, people only concentrated on the missing letters, but later, the distinction between the three was blurred and people didn’t really work to separate the three. Unfortunately, they were right earlier on. The note said to specifically find the lost letters – i.e. those that were missing.
A second layer of complexity was added when I removed too many letters – more than necessary to spell out “Sans investigateur”. Examples of these were the IC in “sufficiency”, an I in “extraordinaire”, etc. The goal of this strategy was to keep the phrase a useless jumble of letters until I provided them the ideal decoder later in the game: the second French note.
This second note, supplied N7 after the death of Joe Monks, reads in English:
“Some letters will be found, but not all pieces fit into the puzzle.”
The translation may not have been perfect, as emphasized with Sasaki’s only somewhat successful Babelfish attempt. For this, I can only say that I’m not a native French speaker, haven’t formally studied it in over a year, and that I did the best I could. Sorry for the potential mess-ups.
The first part, “Some letters will be found” was the decoder. In that writeup I had made an effort to use every “lost letters” word in the past whose letters didn’t go into “Sans investigateur.” The letters were added back in and doubled (“sufficiciency”, extraordinaiire”, etc.), thus removing them from the phrase. The second part, “not all pieces fit into the puzzle”, was a reinforcement of the fact that the townies were only supposed to concentrate on the missing words. Finally in that writeup, I added the final letters to complete the phrase: U and R.
For some reason the .Org’s spell checker only caught one of them, and this wasn’t the first time, either. In the N3 writeup, I believe, an I was missing in the word “in”, leaving only the word “n”, which nobody caught over the course of the game. Don’t rely on one tool, people! So really, when the infamous S A N S N I V I C was being thrown around, it read S A N S I N V, with an I and an IC being removed and another I being placed earlier on in the phrase. And so on.
To my disappointment, nobody really made any progress at getting the riddle until Kommodus extremely late in the game. There were some efforts, but they kind of stalled while the would-be solvers waited until I provided them with the codebreaker. By that point, the endgame was in full swing and everybody was concentrated on getting the mafia via more conventional means. Probably beneficial from the town’s point of view, considering what the payout would have been had they solved it (“hey, it’s telling us there’s no Detective! Great, we were operating on the assumption he was dead anyway. What a waste.”) but it was kind of disappointing to me because I had wanted to see it solved. Oh well.
I think the reason that the riddle went unsolved was an issue of timing, really. It might have been better if there were even more players, say around fifty. Capo II had, IIRC, 15 or so night phases and around 80 players. Had I done the riddle in an environment like that, it would have run its course by the midgame, or in other words, the part of the game where the townies still had time before they had to buckle down and kill the mafia.
All in all, I’m glad I did it, because I think it adds a new dimension to these games. However, future hosts who may want to follow my lead are warned. Be careful, because it could distract the townies too much. Make sure it stays the sideshow, the support effort, and never the main focus. After all, I’m pretty sure khaan and Curio were appreciative of all the effort that was (ultimately) wasted on it – while they weren’t sweating it out that the message might name them, of course!
On the game:
Pre-game
Mafia: makaikhaan and Gaius Scribonius Curio
Mafia VIII took place in a period of relatively low activity in the Gameroom. It was immediately preceded by Myrddraal’s “The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly,” a very good game but with very few players, and Caius’s “Everything Happens in the Wild West”, a game which never really got off the ground. At the time of this writing, the game after Mafia VIII, Omanes’s “The Brothel”, is hovering around 20 players after several days of being open. So I was grateful that I was still able to pull in 38 players. :yes:
This was also my first post-Capo II game, bringing in several starring players from that game and beyond, most notably TinCow, Curio, and Privateerkev. Naturally, the Gameroom mainstays like Sasaki Kojiro, Ichigo, and Andres showed up. I was disappointed to know that a lot of the chatters like Prole, Xiahou, and Husar, didn’t play, but on the other hand the people whom I consider to be the Big Three of the Mafia series – Crazed Rabbit, Kagemusha, and Kommodus – did. These three have been playing since the beginning (M2 for Kommodus) and always seem to a) stick around until the end, and b) have a major impact. In this game, only one of them really followed this criteria, but oh, what in impact it was in the endgame. I was grateful for their continued interest.
And then, of course, we come to the mafia. Random.org gave me khaan, an established player who has been an extremely tricky mafioso in the past with the multi-role environment. We would see how he would fare when the game was stripped down. Its second pick was Curio, a new player who was leading the townie effort in Taormina but got badly fooled by PK. Would he get his revenge? Time would tell.
Finally, as discussed above, there was no Detective, for the first time since Mafia I.
Round 1
Curio kills Tratorix
Khaan kills Omanes Alexandrapolites
Good first kills by the mafia. The only contribution either of the two made in the game was Tratorix being the first one to translate the French “lost letters” message after N3. I felt really sorry for Omanes though, as he has the worst luck in my games. He’s played in two of them, VI and VIII, and both times he hasn’t even made it through the first round. Ouch!
(of course, there might be a pattern to this, as both times he didn’t really do anything after his death. A word to the wise: Mafia, take note, and Omanes, you might want to take action and start becoming more of a threat if you want to live longer. Easier said than done, of course, so I’ll shut up and get back to the game.)
Anyway, the round started off with an extremely questionable move by Privateerkev, in that he voted for himself using the following reasoning:
No mafia member would be so crazy as to vote for himself.
Therefore I must either be innocent or doing the biggest WIFOM in history.
My thoughts, both then and now:
:inquisitive:
I’m still not quite sure what PK was trying to achieve by this. My guess is that he wanted to gain the town’s trust and contribute while not waiting for the mafia to off him, thinking that a self-organized lynching in Round 1 would do the trick. However, the problem is (which I think he’s learned) is that it’s simply not enough. The only way you are exonerated in this game is if the mafia kill you. That’s it. Yes, PK organized and pushed for his own lynching, but the doubt was still there, the lack of a 100% certainty.
Other highlights of this round include the voting being extended due to Tosa’s massive upgrade of the .Org, Sarathos voting eight times in a row, and Sasaki voting repeatedly (and purposely) for the dead Tratorix and later Omanes. As custom in the first round, the mafia sat silently back and laughed as PK directed his own death and Sasaki walked perilously close to the line of lynching. All in all, it was an active, if unproductive, round.
Executed: Privateerkev
Round 2
Curio kills Andres
Khaan kills Craterus
Both targets were chosen, IIRC, because of Detective speculation/odd behavior. For most of the game (at least, the portion where khaan was active) Curio would send in his kill first. He provided me with kills of various degrees of completeness. Some days were outlines that I worked with (e.g. “Andres is jogging by a lake, he sees a well-dressed man wearing a trenchcoat and fedora sitting on a park bench. The man is smiling and makes a comment about the beautiful weather. Andres joins in, and then the man says “Unfortunately, this is the last day you’ll enjoy it”) and shoots him. Some days were nothing, and some days were pretty full descriptions that only needed a bit of polishing up (near the endgame, usually). Khaan, afraid that somebody would catch his writing style, gave me total discretion.
This was the part of the game where I had a strange obsession with birds/ducks being a linking theme. Some speculation was made from it, but to tell you the truth I just wanted a recurring bit of comedy with Beirut being more worked up over birds causing him property damage than the mafia killing the villagers. After a few more rounds, I got tired of using birds to link the two kills and dropped it entirely.
Finally, there was a small reference to “trace amounts of osmium” in the duck pond, a little homage to Mafia IV. Honestly, I was surprised that more wasn’t made of it. :laugh4: Guess the old games are fading into obscurity.
Elite Ferret quickly got into trouble this round due to most of his posts being simply joking around. Khaan happily joined the easy bandwagon, but Curio stayed away and voted for a future lynch-bait in FactionHeir. With low activity this round, EF was easily lynched.
Executed: Elite Ferret
Round 3
Curio kills LittleGrizzly
Khaan kills TevashSzat
Ah, the third round night kills. :laugh4: So much was made of Tevash’s epic death, the “find the lost letters” note, and the broken nose. Now you guys know the truth. Tevash wasn’t Detective, but I just felt like writing a good car chase scene. Plus, it was a good way of introducing the word puzzle, which had begun to be implemented the previous round.
A few calling cards were introduced this round. Curio’s dress, manner of speaking, and khaan’s shotgun were already in place, but I added a Cuban cigar for Curio and the Mercedes/broken nose for khaan this round. I wanted to do more with the cigars for Curio’s character, but kept forgetting to put them in. :laugh4:
I will say in future games not to make too much of calling cards, as they can be easily manipulated by the mafia and myself to screw with the town. Clothes and weapons can be leant. Even names can be manipulated, like in Mafia VII (I finally get to talk about that! Woo!). In that game woad&fangs’s character was named Mr. Arlen Frederick Ivanovich Ace, or Mr. A.F.I.A. for short. Later on, Crazed Rabbit named his character Mr. A.F.I.A. as well. In the kills, however, I always put at least one reference to Arlen Frederick Ivanovich Ace in woad’s kill scenes, and never put it in CR’s. After woad’s lynchings, Arlen Frederick Ivanovich Ace was dropped and both kills were made by the ambiguous Mr. A.F.I.A. Things like that can be tricky, which is why calling cards can be so hard to decipher.
The rest of the round was pretty strange. There were the usual junk votes being thrown around, but then peverpink started claiming left and right, first mafia and then Detective, and then renouncing it. He named Kagemusha as a mafioso, putting pressure, temporarily, on the old survivor. It would not be the last time.
Another reason why I got rid of the Detective is for rules purposes. There is always the opportunity to break rules and reveal privately, something which I almost had to deal with in Mafia VII and had no desire of doing so again.
Anyway, people were fed up with pever’s goofing around and gave him the chop. End round 3, with the mafia sitting pretty.
Executed: peverpink
Round 4
Curio kills Crazed Rabbit
Khaan kills woad&fangs
Both mafiosi from Mafia VII bought it the same night. I liked it. :laugh4:
There’s been a lot said about how my games are an absolute grind for the mafia (and they are) and that Curio and khaan are to be congratulated for getting as far as they did, especially with khaan unable to provide support for a week (and they are) but I still think there was a handicap in this game, more than in the others. For starters, obviously, there was no Detective. More subtly, though, the letters. This was the point where people really started focusing on them as opposed to getting a lot of data. That was a distraction and helped the mafiosi out. Finally, the players. Kommodus was inactive this game, popping in this round to avoid the WoG and then dropping off the face of the earth (and eventually getting mod-killed) until the final round. Sasaki never really made an impact. And Kage first went on a cruise and then went to his annual rock festival. So the town was definitely at a greater disadvantage in this game.
Their mindset didn’t help things either. In the transition from the goofy beginning game to the serious midgame, the town pretty much decided on a pecking order and stuck with it until the desperate endgame. #s 1 and 2 on this list were TinCow and FactionHeir, with Seamus Fermanagh, Sasaki, and even khaan farther down.
Honestly, I don’t know why TC was suspicious. References to posts were made, but really, I think it was the power of the bandwagon more than anything that doomed him. He went down, but only after a tie vote (after 2/3 of FactionHeir’s votes came from our mafiosi) extended his life a little bit. I hope I gave the .Org’s resident lawyer (quiet, Andres, I knew TC first :tongue:) a fitting send-off.
Executed: TinCow
Round 5
Curio kills Rythmic
Khaan kills Quintus.J.Cicero
For this round, I had total freedom on both kills. That hasn’t happened since, like, Mafia I. Cicero bought it via red imported fire ants (inspired by the recent Indiana Jones movie) right after he had narrowly escaped the WoG last round by voting.
Khaan started the round off by going after Sasaki with the most links I’ve ever seen in one post, including OverKnight’s “History of KotR” thread:
Vote: Sasaki
There is little good reason for your decrease in posting. You're count is way down, and many of your votes have been unhelpful, often unhelpful with either little or no reasoning.
Examples like this (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1937615&postcount=116), this (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1937767&postcount=134), this (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1937874&postcount=153), this (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1937903&postcount=159), this (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1941642&postcount=362). Of note for this one is that he doesn't ever actually do as he said and clarify or discuss the vote or issues.
Here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1942298&postcount=461), Sasaki repeats his FoS of TinCow, but again does not offer any reasoning or clarification for it.Here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1943372&postcount=519) he once again does a FoS of TinCow but doesn't offer reasoning. Here he states he even can't recall any actual specific post that actually struck him as suspicious. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1944298&postcount=572)Also this (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1944514&postcount=587)
Non-contributory posts like this (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1937908&postcount=161), this (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1937920&postcount=164), this (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1937945&postcount=172), this (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1937962&postcount=174), this (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1937983&postcount=178), this (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1942513&postcount=497), this (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1944534&postcount=591), this (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1945033&postcount=637), this (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1946481&postcount=709), this (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1946494&postcount=711)
Serious posts:
This (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1937994&postcount=180), this (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1938008&postcount=183), this (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1938328&postcount=209), this (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1942077&postcount=419), this (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1942509&postcount=494), this (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1944098&postcount=566), where he finally offers the faintest of a glimpse of his reasoning and his activity, but frankly, to me, this isn't all that acceptable. Hell, my state's flooded and I can find time to do this post.
This (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1945297&postcount=648), and this (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1945391&postcount=650), where he only finally offers some kind of serious reason for all of his previous votes and "FoS'".Here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1946021&postcount=683) he offers a further vote for TinCow for the tie.This (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1946507&postcount=714) and this (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1946788&postcount=718) regarding letters.
Basically, Sasaki's been active enough to avoid major suspicion, but has most often been unhelpful in his votes and commentary. His activity isn't particularly explainable, and his behavior, for someone who is so experienced at mafia, is unacceptable, and has done almost no good for the town thus far; there were still two different killers for the night phase; the drummer and the man with the broken nose. This would rather indicate to me that TinCow was innocent. Sasaki's efforts to help the town have thus far been mostly subpar; I think its attributable to being guilty.
At the time I was concerned for khaan’s real-life welfare because this was when Iowa (his home state) was flooded, but apparently he was fine and smelling blood. The mafia were obviously gunning for Sasaki this round, his reputation obviously being scarier than his actual contributions to the game. Sasaki responded with a pretty decent, although short, defense:
There are far too many links in that post.
Some games I lead the charge some I don't. Think I got lynched as a townie in mafia VI (?) for posting less. It happens.
By the way makaikhaan, you should know that the "different killers" in the writeup doesn't indicate squat. Any one of the lynchees could have been mafia, the writeups wouldn't have been changed.
However, the attack was on. Curio, secondarily, led an effort to take down Kommodus, who was well on his way to the Land of WoG by that point. Clearly, the mafia wanted to take down a high-profile target this round. It worked, with Sasaki and Kommodus tying for the most votes in an inactive round.
One interesting note was what came out of the inactivity: Suspicion fell on the active people, with the logic being that the people who voted would also get their kills in on time. While incorrect (see what happened when khaan went AWOL), this logic would name khaan and Curio, among others, as major suspects. Later, when khaan dropped off the radar, Curio kept his activity up, which among other things might have ruined him.
For now, however, Sasaki was lynched, allowing the mafia to breathe easier. 5 rounds down, no problem. Of course, it was like that for many other ill-fated mafia teams...
Executed: Sasaki Kojiro
Round 6
Khaan kills shlin28
Curio kills RoadKill
Khaan sent in his kill early (around the start of the tiebreak vote), said he’d be having internet problems that night, and then dropped off the face of the earth for a week, leaving Curio with all the work. Curio, meanwhile, wanted to not kill anybody to throw the whole “if you vote a lot, you send in your kills on time” logic out of whack. After some deliberation, I decided not to allow it, and thus RoadKill went down. I think this ruling combined with what I allowed Curio to do in khaan’s absence pretty much cements the infallibility of the “there will always be two kills” rule.
The next couple of rounds that followed saw witness to probably the most herculean feat ever accomplished in one of my games: Curio’s solo effort (just beating out Crazed Rabbit’s prolonged survival in Mafia VII after he did an amazing manipulation of The Truth). He had no backup, no wingman, nobody to help advise him.
His first day alone went well, with Seamus Fermanagh getting most of the town’s attention. Seamus had spent most of his time trying to refine his play style in order to defeat Holmes for future games and, in his well-known analyses, several times forgot to include every person. Naturally, this got the town’s suspicion up, and Seamus was left scrambling.
IIRC, I think there were also some similarities to a kill in Mafia V (when Seamus was a mafioso), which further injured Seamus’s cause. Let me just say that, when you’ve done eight of these things, you have a tendency to repeat some kills! :laugh4: I remember looking back and rereading Mafia VII, I had made references to the “Ten Little Indians” poem as I had done this time, but not as blatant. There are probably more, too, and will be as this series continues. By then, it will be up to the town to determine whether these similarities are intentional or just coincidence (more likely :tongue:).
Beefy187 had a very nice analysis going in this round and ended up voting for khaan, but a quick post by PK made him change and he ended up voting for Seamus. Come on, Beefy, trust that initial instinct! :yes:
The bandwagon was initially on when discovery1 showed up, and, following the smiley, voted for Seamus. Interestingly enough, Curio started another side-bandwagon on Sarathos, which didn’t gain enough steam. This failed effort would have repercussions in the endgame, but for now, another “heavy hitter” was gone.
Executed: Seamus Fermanagh
Round 7
Curio kills CountArach
Khaan “kills” Joe Monks
I think this was the first time where the calling cards got tangled up, intentionally by Curio to throw the town out of whack. I exercised discipline and allowed a Marxist discussion to take place without any disparaging remarks (Capitalism FTW!!! :2thumbsup:) between the two Backroom Aussie lefties. Interestingly enough, Curio PM’d me later to compliment me on CA’s death saying it’s what he would have done. I wondered if, because of it, suspicion would have fallen on Curio, but none ever did.
Funnily enough, it was this round where I purposely imitated another Mafia V kill (it was where Reenk Roink killed Kommodus, I think, and twisted a famous quote to serve his needs), but nobody said anything. This was also the kill description with the second French note, signifying the end of the letters.
Due to the change in kills, some people believed that it signified Seamus’s guilt. Curio asserted himself and, interestingly, provided the correct explanation for the kills (I think if people like Sasaki had been paying more attention, they would have blasted him for this. I was certainly chuckling at the monitor when I saw his posts like that. :laugh4:). Taking initiative, he cast the first vote for a longtime target in FactionHeir. FH, for the most part, had spent his time abstaining and overanalyzing the letters. The bandwagon, however, was on, with the only real distraction this round being my banning Elite Ferret from Mafia IX out of sheer annoyance. You guys don’t know how much I hate that clown smiley. :smg:
Executed: FactionHeir
Round 8
Curio kills Beefy187
Khaan “kills” Sigurd Fafnesbane
Round 8. The endgame was upon us. The traditional round where the mafia, cruising along, hit the speed bump (with Round 9 being when they lose control of the car and slam into an oak tree at 60 mph). Would Curio, essentially operating alone, follow Crazed Rabbit’s pattern and make it? Or, like so many others, would he falter and ultimately be overcome by the awesome power that is the town?
Early in the night phase, Curio made his preparations and strongly went after Kagemusha and discovery1, both of whom took offense and started looking at Curio more closely. Curio, meanwhile, backed his accusation up in the kills when he made it absolutely clear (by now, he was beginning to write more) that there were two mafiosi left. Knowing my history, I personally thought Curio was a liiiiittle bit overconfident/cocky, but watched to see it play out.
Curio, of course, explained the kills perfectly and once again nobody really got on him for it. Interesting, really, that the one person who takes anything from the kill posts that doesn’t get suspected is the real mafioso! :laugh4: He and Kage started going after each other like two boxers, with most of the dead (barring TinCow, who suspected Curio for activity) backing Curio.
At the close of the phase, Kage got a temporary respite and voting shifted from him to KukriKhan, who for most of the game had been a helpful, if off-target townie. With four minutes to go in voting, Kukri, partially in an effort to save himself and partially convinced by reasoning, switched his vote from Kage to Curio, sealing the death of one mafioso. Once again, lightning had struck. The mafia had been dealt a blow and now the game, with khaan still absent, seemed to be in fate’s hands.
Executed: Gaius Scribonius Curio
Round 9
Khaan “kills” KukriKhan and Ichigo
My PM to Curio at the start of the night phase:
This next day phase is going to be an absolute farce. What it's going to come down to is whether or not khaan shows up and votes. I don't think a game has even ended by WoG before. :laugh4:
The bad news: Unfortunately, you are lynched and now pretty much have to rely on fate that khaan will show up to save the day. You also have to send in both of his kills and they will both be made by a man with a broken nose. I suggest that you mask that somehow.
The good news: Finally, precedence falls in your favor! As I have done in the past, I will extend the next day phase to 48 hours, so khaan will have more time to show up.
No matter how things turn out, you've essentially operated without a wingman for the second half of the game and survived this long, an enormous feat you should be proud of. Congratulations on that... and cross your fingers.
GH
Yes, khaan would have been Wogged had he not shown up. Sarathos too, leaving the possibility that the game might have ended with Disco as the only survivor! :laugh4: I can’t imagine how I would have written that one.
Curio chose Kukri and Ichigo partially because he wanted a bunch of lurkers left in the game and because he didn’t think khaan would be back (at the time, I didn’t know he had been on vacation and that his absence had something to do with the flooding) in time, so he wanted to get his revenge on Kukri. In retrospect, this was a big mistake. At the time, however, there was no way of knowing. I’ll discuss this more in my “game end” section.
Anyway, I posted the kills in the summary thread at 22:16, my time. At 22:19, I received the following PM:
GH, I'm terribly sorry about my disappearance. I was offered a last second opportunity to go on vacation with a buddy of mine in the northeast. I expected to have internet available, but to my surprise, I had none. I have had no access for the last week or so. I'll get back in the thread soon.j
Tonight, I'll kill Disco and Sarathos.
Khaan was back, he was ready, and most notably, he gave me radically different kills. He missed the deadline by three minutes! Had he PM’d me before I put the kills up, I would have given his kills priority.
I’ll always wonder how much difference those three minutes made. Had he killed Disco and Sarathos, it would have left khaan, Ichigo, Kage (target #1), and Kukri (also pretty suspicious). Instead, he was stuck with Kage, Disco, and Sarathos, with him as one of the two major suspects. He was coming home from a vacation. Three minutes... that’s one rest stop. One bathroom break. A couple of traffic lights. One “Wait, don’t start the car yet, I forgot to pack this!” It made all the difference in the world.
At least khaan had avoided the WoG, however. Now all he needed to worry about was keeping Disco and Sarathos focused on Kage, who by this point was defending himself like crazy.
Over the past two rounds, I was imagining potential crazy endgame scenarios, grinning wildly at the thought of them and the fact that they were, in fact, plausible. Kage could be lynched but khaan fails to show up, getting Wogged. Khaan shows up in the 11th hour and puts the clinching vote on Kage, thus getting his revenge and forever destroying the Curse. Kage gets lynched Round 8, with Curio getting the lynch Round 9 and khaan getting the WoG, thus marking the first time two mafiosi ever died in one day phase and pretty much affirming the Curse for all eternity (how else do you explain two mafiosi dying right after the guy gets lynched?). But I was never imagining what really happened.
As expected, khaan reacquainted himself with the game and went after Kagemusha, who proceeded to give himself probably the greatest defense in the history of mafia games. With khaan gunning for him and just about every single dead person screaming for his blood, Kage hammered three points over and over:
As a mafioso, he would have a partner, and there was absolutely no clear-cut partner.
khaan, on the other hand, had a clear connection to the lynched TinCow (wrong partner, right idea).
If he were a mafioso, why would he make himself the only clear-cut lynch choice?
The third point was probably the most effective, WIFOM or not, which is why my confidence in WIFOM has all but evaporated. Some things are just common sense. It’s the final round, there are a bunch of lurkers alive... and you kill off the second-most suspicious guy (Kukri) and isolate yourself? When you can just tell everybody else to vote for the other suspicious guy instead? Please. There definitely needs to be a line drawn between WIFOM and common sense.
Amazingly, Kage convinced the two people that mattered. First Sarathos, then Disco, believed him and cast their votes for khaan. I closed the final phase, shaking my head in amazement. I’m sure the mafia were doing the same. Khaan was lynched with a ton of the dead screaming that Kage had played them all.
Executed: makaikhaan
Game end
Earlier on, khaan PM’d me saying, assuming Kage was the lynch, that Sarathos was to be killed in a 24-hour diner and Disco was to be run over by a bandwagon. A little hasty there, khaan? :laugh4: Lacking inspiration for the final scene, I decided to go with the diner approach but (obviously) change the result.
Curio definitely established himself as a very good player in this game with his commendable effort. He had to carry the weight for part of the midgame and most of the endgame and almost made it. There were a lot of moments he shined, in messing with the calling cards and his lynch choices, but there's a bit that needs to be polished up, especially in reaction to the kill posts. From my (obviously biased and informed) standpoint, those were the obvious parts that screamed "MAFIOSO!!!" to me. Look for him to become a very formidable player in the future. khaan, of course, turned in another exemplary effort and it was only due to Kage's amazing defense that he failed.
With yet another mafia collapse in the final two rounds, it’s time to reflect on what caused it this time. As my “console the losers” commercial noted, previous defeats have been caused by surprise reveals, chokes, turnarounds in town strategy, and Holmes. However, none of these really applied here. For a little while it seemed like process of elimination would destroy khaan and Curio, with both of them on the “watch” list, but both, khaan especially, fell off for a while. Curio got lynched, yes, but that was more due to luck than anything. I think the game was really lost when Curio made the decision to kill KukriKhan and Ichigo, most notably Kukri.
Things brings me to the lesson learned from Mafia VIII: Play to win, not to cover your butt. Both sides were guilty of this, I think. In Curio’s final kills, he had pretty much given up hope that khaan was coming back and acted as such, getting revenge on Kukri and putting khaan in a very bad position when he eventually did reappear. Had he operated under the hope that Kage was coming back, I think he would have killed Disco and Sarathos, leaving khaan in a better position. Heck, there might have even been a tie between Kage and Kukri in the final round, forcing me to further extend the round, giving khaan even more time to get back. The town, for too much of the game, was simply lynching people because they were on the “next to go” list – the sign of a lazy town. Case in point TinCow and FactionHeir, who really didn’t do anything to warrant suspicion in the later rounds and were lynched just because. This is the same reason why many of the dead people were gunning for Kage in the final round. They wanted him gone just because if he had stayed alive, it would have been a travesty and he would have skunked them all. They were so focused on making sure they didn’t badly lose (if they had lost to khaan, I don’t think it would have been a bad loss for them so much as a “good win” for him) that they didn’t analyze everything. In the endgame, you can’t afford to have narrow vision.
Now that Mafia VIII is over, it makes me wonder where it will rank among my other games. III, V, and VI, are the giants, of course, and VIII is most similar to them. VII had the most posts, but I didn’t like hosting that as much. I had to do too much enforcement/peacekeeper work in that one and the final rounds were pretty much a farce after Crazed Rabbit pulled “The Truth.” IV was promising, but far too short. I was special, but that’s all it’ll be, really. And II was a pretty mediocre game until Tiberius’s reveal saved that one. So where to put VIII, I don’t know. I’d like to lump it in with the great ones, but there’s still a lot of inactivity. I think we’ll have to reserve judgment until some time has passed and how fondly I look back on this game.
That said, I’d like to congratulate everyone that participated, with special kudos to our gallant mafiosi Gaius Scribonius Curio and makaikhaan, and of course Kagemusha, the man that credit for this town victory goes to! :cheerleader: Congrats guys, and see you in Mafia IX! :rifle:
seireikhaan
07-01-2008, 02:15
*sighs* Dang, that is one REALLY depressing summary.:shame:
Khaan started the round off by going after Sasaki with the most links I’ve ever seen in one post, including OverKnight’s “History of KotR” thread:
Oh well, at least I set one record. :laugh4:
GeneralHankerchief
07-01-2008, 02:17
*sighs* Dang, that is one REALLY depressing summary.:shame:
I feel tempted to make a "Three Minutes" commercial now.
seireikhaan
07-01-2008, 02:30
I feel tempted to make a "Three Minutes" commercial now.
Oh go ahead, I'm sure it'll make everyone else here laugh...
GeneralHankerchief
07-01-2008, 02:37
Oh go ahead, I'm sure it'll make everyone else here laugh...
Hey, don't be depressed, man. You guys did an awesome job. Think of it as being on par with Kommodus, Seamus, and Andres. That's pretty good company. :yes:
seireikhaan
07-01-2008, 02:39
Hey, don't be depressed, man. You guys did an awesome job. Think of it as being on par with Kommodus, Seamus, and Andres. That's pretty good company. :yes:
Even still, so close... so freakin' close... 3 minutes...
EDIT: plus, we didn't end up having to deal with a detective.:shame:
Gaius Scribonius Curio
07-01-2008, 02:50
Great and (as Khann mentioned) depressing write-up GH!
I'd just mention a few things as clarification of my actions. Most importantly:
Curio kept his activity up, which among other things might have ruined him.
It may be pretty anal, but if I sign-up for something then I'm going to contribute. It's just my nature to post at least once per phase unless RL gets in the way (like it did this weekend, some muppet headbutted me on the nose, I think it's broken... ironic much?). Plus by my logic to change my style and frequency because I'm coming under suspicion would exacerbate the situation. Then again that's probably down to my inexperiance.
Interestingly enough, Curio PM’d me later to compliment me on CA’s death saying it’s what he would have done. I wondered if, because of it, suspicion would have fallen on Curio, but none ever did.
I wouldn't have had the imagination to come up with something like that but I enjoyed reading it and thought it a fitting way to end CA's life. I also wondered if anybody would pick up on it, but apparently not...
Knowing my history, I personally thought Curio was a liiiiittle bit overconfident/cocky, but watched to see it play out.
I now agree, just a touch overconfident. The irony is that the 'research' I did into Kage and Disco was similar in nature to that which I did in Taormina. In other words, were I a townie I still probably would have accused them in a similar way (just because I've spent time researching and analysing doesn't mean that I'm necessarily right does it PK?). I'd finished my exams and had the time and the inclination to up my contribution. It wasn't down to me sensing blood as it were...
Curio chose Kukri and Ichigo partially because he wanted a bunch of lurkers left in the game and because he didn’t think khaan would be back.
I chose Ichigo because he always seems to vote for Khann regardless of whether he is seemingly innocent or not. I chose Kukri because of my idea for the write-up and I didn't expect Khann to be back. In retrospect this was a horrible idea. I did consider knocking off Disco instead (honestly I'd actually typed out a PM to GH saying that I wanted to change my kill from Kukri!), but didn't go through with it... I'm an idiot with delusions of grandeur.
Khaan was lynched with a ton of the dead screaming that Kage had played them all.
And I laughed... It was heartbreaking to come so close, but at the same time it was absolutely hilarious that almost everybody who couldn't vote and was active would have voted for Kage (according to their posts anyway).
Curio definitely established himself as a very good player in this game with his commendable effort.
:bow: Thank you but I still have a lot to learn.
Once again I'd like to congratulate the town, particularly:
Kagemusha: who won it for them.
PK: for providing the analysis that led to my downfall.
And..
Kukrikhan: for casting the deciding vote and lynching me, even though you immediately regretted it.
And thanks to GH for a great and very enjoyable game.
seireikhaan
07-01-2008, 02:58
Oh, and one thing I should mention to be fair: this game has gotten me absolutely psyched to host my next mafia game. I think I'm off to work more on it.:beam:
woad&fangs
07-01-2008, 03:12
The writeup was very enlightening. I feel rather embarrased knowing that GSC was frequently referring to the writeups considering that was one of my main reasons for going after FH and Seamus.
I once more must congratulate makaikhaan and Gaius Scribonius Curio on a game well played.
I personally agree with your descision to remove the detective in your games for exactly the reasons you mentioned. I'm very curious to see how that will shake things up in Mafia IX.
Thank you for hosting GH :bow:
I'd like to announce that I'm taking a short break from large mafia games. I still might play a few small games which are less intense and have lower stakes. I plan to return for Midgard Saga II.
Even still, so close... so freakin' close... 3 minutes...
Don't be too hard on yourself.
In the last round of Mafia VI, Stig and I were the two main suspects and I got lynched with 3 votes from Kommodus, CR and Stig against 2 from Kage and me for Stig.
After the game, Stig said that if I would have voted for Kommodus, he would also have changed his vote to Kommo. Kage was suspicious about Kommo in that game as well, so a vote change to Kommo and some arguments (I had been constantly questioning 'holmes' throughout the whole game) probably would have resulted in the lynch of Kommo or a tie between Kommo and me...
Alas, I was at my parents that day and didn't manage to return in time to change my vote to Kommo...
All of this happened in the old days, when the reputation of CR and "The Truth" was still intact...
Thnx for hosting GeneralHankerchief :bow: And sorry for my (post-mortem) inactiveness.
The third point was probably the most effective, WIFOM or not, which is why my confidence in WIFOM has all but evaporated. Some things are just common sense. It’s the final round, there are a bunch of lurkers alive... and you kill off the second-most suspicious guy (Kukri) and isolate yourself? When you can just tell everybody else to vote for the other suspicious guy instead? Please. There definitely needs to be a line drawn between WIFOM and common sense.
I agree, but common sense is a matter of perspective. In Taormina I killed off peverpink at a time when he was on a very short list of potential serial killer victims, along with myself. That made it far more likely that I would be killed by the serial killer. However, from my perspective it made sense because peverpink was the only person I knew for certain was an innocent townie and I needed to kill a townie to 'upgrade' my abilities. At the same time, the serial killer seemed to be pro-town, and people thought I had been cleared of suspicion at that point, so I gambled that he would let me live a while longer. From an outside view, my move was just as insane as khaan's (well, Curio's), but from my perspective it was the most logical next step from my situation.
I do agree about the uselessness of WIFOM, though. I've said that before and it seems to just get stronger each game. Occam's razor generally (though not always) defeats WIFOM.
FactionHeir
07-01-2008, 12:18
Let's see who is the next mafia to each time kill those other main suspects and leave him instead.
"Hey, they are just trying to frame me every turn, not my fault!" :grin2:
KukriKhan
07-01-2008, 14:01
On dropping the Detective role: I agree it's an unnecessary crutch in 'classic' Mafia games. The town will do all the investigating necessary in the public thread, making it more interesting and engaging for the town.
O'course, in the more elaborate role-heavy games, town will need a detective to counter the strength of multiple mafia families, serial killers, and any other ne'er-do-wells.
I was fascinated by the 'game within a game' puzzle concept. But “Sans investigateur” was too long a phrase to stretch out over several day/night cycles for me, and I lost interest after SANSNIV was revealed, deciding (er, gambling) that the clue - whatever it was - would not be a make-or-break factor in the game. Afterall, our job was to find and kill mafia, period. Being "without NIV" seemed increasingly irrelevant to that task. That said, if I ever host a game, I think I'll use some similar device, to keep the townies entertained during the long night phases, when they have basically nothing to do but wait to be killed/see who gets killed.
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