OOC Thread and Chatroom

[/Bean\]

I am only interested in protecting our holdings easier. If we take Epirus, not only do we stop their elitist training, but we can cut off their routes into Roman lands. It's only logical.

[mini]

TCV, if u dont want a two front war: capture ambrakia, force rest of Epirus to accept peace. An alliance with makedon to keep an eye on epirus, and full focus to carthage.



everbody wins.

[/Bean\]

:2thumbsup:

[mini]

how's that for support from ur son Bean ;p

[/Bean\]

I am not giving you Kudos everytime to support me...its not even IC :laugh4:

[mini]

pff, so much for fatherly love.


When I grow up, i'll be dressed in black, stabbing senators in a session and plea bad childhood in court.

[SwissBarbar]

Actually to me it also is only logical to take the capital city of the enemy, be their king dead or not. Especially after they gave Rome such a hard time like Pyrrhos did. Besides, as I said before in the Curia, and as it was said here, we would avert them from being able to recover and start a war again - f.e. by navigating over the Adriatic.

[The Celtic Viking]

You can argue all you want, but - and I know this will kill you, Swiss :laugh4: - it doesn't really matter what you say here because it's OOC. Even if you get me to agree with you, you won't get Pvblivs to do it without IC talk.

Of course, since Pvblivs is only the Consul of Finance, there isn't much he could do if you did take it without a vote. Moreover, I don't plan on re-entering politics (beyond voting) until the Congressional Session starts, and even what little I could possibly do wouldn't be done even if Pvblivs wanted to. Everyone would have to decide for himself to do that, since he's acting CoF while Pvblivs is out.

This is not just because I'm way too tired to talk politics, by the way.

[/Bean\]

Yay, a victory! He's too tired :beam:

[SwissBarbar]

You can argue all you want, but - and I know this will kill you, Swiss :laugh4: 1 - it doesn't really matter what you say here because it's OOC. Even if you get me to agree with you, you won't get Pvblivs to do it without IC talk.

Of course, since Pvblivs is only the Consul of Finance, there isn't much he could do if you did take it without a vote. Moreover, I don't plan on re-entering politics (beyond voting) until the Congressional Session starts, and even what little I could possibly do wouldn't be done even if Pvblivs wanted to. Everyone would have to decide for himself to do that, since he's acting CoF while Pvblivs is out.

This is not just because I'm way too tired to talk politics, by the way. 2

1 Indeed, I'm shocked ~:shock: ~:shock: ~:shock: ~:shock:

2 But also....?

[The Celtic Viking]

... but also because it's pretty much what I had decided to do when my computer broke and I made my "wounded in battle" excuse for not being able to lead the Legio IV. I figured if I was well enough to get actively involved in Roman politics, I was well enough to go to battle. :sweatdrop:

[Iskander 3.1]

Good luck in your conquoring Bean...and keep in mind that Scapula and I don't always see eye to eye on every issue :slomo:

[mini]

navarro, check your pm

everyone else: good night! vale

[/Bean\]

Same here, I'm off. Laterz all. Twas a good session tonight

[Tiberius Claudius Marcellus]

I've PMed Navarro to request that I implement an event, which is legal as I have not been requested to implement one in the past 10 turns and there are no rules stating we cannot have more than one event in effect at the same time.

As I understand the rule:


1.5 Events

Whenever they desire, but no more often than once every 10 turns, navarro951, or anyone he choose's may create an in-game Event.
Events are not limited in scope, subject matter, or method of implementation.
All game rules, including * marked rules, can be violated to implement an Event.
The players can prevent the implementation of any single Event through a simple majority of unweighted votes.

It is worded so that each player could be chosen at the same time to implement an event, however, not more than once per player per 10 turns.

[SwissBarbar]

It says "navarro, or anyone he chooses" which means that only he, or one instead of him, can implemet an event every 10 turns. This again means, that only one event (the one of navarro or the one of the person he chooses)can be created per 10 turns.

At least that's how I understand it.

[SwissBarbar]

Sorry for the double post:

After having read your argument in the curia, I now know why you want to implemet an event.

And:


"I am not making the decision to spawn an army, I suggested it as Role Play. As such, I think we should vote on it in the senate. I may request to make an event out of it and force you to fight them though, if you really insist on being a bugger about it."

1. Don't you please call me a bugger in OOC.
2. Then we should make a law, which tells navarro to spawn a 3/4 stack every single time a legion enters a foreign region, just to RP the rebelling peasants. This would be the only logical consequence, since we cannot just put stacks in the way of your political enemies and not in yours.

[navarro951]

It says "navarro, or anyone he chooses" which means that only he, or one instead of him, can implemet an event every 10 turns. This again means, that only one event (the one of navarro or the one of the person he chooses)can be created per 10 turns.

At least that's how I understand it.

you understand correctly. Besides an event is on going (the punic war) that still has a second phase to be implemented. That would be the part where Rome gains sicilia as it should at the end of the first punic.

[/Bean\]

I do have to agree here, TCM. The event your planning is due to an increase in resistance that Tiberivs Marcellvs wants Caivs Avrelivs to face. That is not grounds for initiating an event that requires complete enemy involvment, if you get me. Sorry, keep trying :beam:

[Tiberius Claudius Marcellus]

- Bugger was directed at Bean, not you since he said "you can't decide that" in his post.
I'm taking that bugger must mean something different in Europe than it does in America. Here it means "an annoying little sh..".




- Ok, Navarro, the rules weren't as clear as they're being re-worded now; but you're the boss and if you now decide that only one event can go at a time, even though it isn't written that way, then that's the way it goes.

The correct way to read the rule in American English, as it is written at this time, is that either Navarro or someone he chooses can make an event not more than once per 10 turns.

That is to say that the only people who can make events are Navarro or whomever he chooses

and

both he and whomever he chooses can make said events only once each per 10 turns.

Therefore

the number of active events per every 10 turns can be "Number of players + 1 for navarro"




- Planning an event to impede a character is just as fair as planning an event to benefit yourselves. This whole event with the Punic War is all an attempt to advance Legios I and II at the expense of Legio III and all the new players. Bean has advanced far beyond all the other players and in talking with them, I know that several players think that the game is getting unbalanced and he needs to be nerfed until more can catch up and even the playing field. We don't take issue with him or anyone else being ahead; but with how far he is ahead.

He's the only character that can create a house, so he alone can start a civil war. And while any victim's of his may defend themselves, they can't initiate the attacks when he's leaving himself all alone fighting enemy kings and vulnerable. There needs to be some serious game reform to re-balance it or else it isn't fun and there's no sense in playing.

[SwissBarbar]

I translate it as "as***le" , but since I'm not a native speaker .... :laugh4:

[everyone]

darn I just sleep for 6 hours and go to school for 9 hours and a load of stuff happens again.

I think navarro's CA during the previous congressional session needs to be clarified; I originally interpreted it as "A quaestor my create a house via an edict during a congressional session; without the sponsoring of a praetor"; such as "edict 100.56473: The House of Juggling Mans That Look Like This: :juggle2: shall be created". and so it is created normally like how a house would be if a praetor sponsors it.


advance Legios I and II at the expense of Legio III
actually, the Sicily part was to help whichever legion which does not have any duties; which happen to be Legio III and IV. because when I asked navarro to implement the second phase, Legio II was already preoccupied in Illyria.

[mini]

He's the only character that can create a house, so he alone can start a civil war. And while any victim's of his may defend themselves, they can't initiate the attacks when he's leaving himself all alone fighting enemy kings and vulnerable. There needs to be some serious game reform to re-balance it or else it isn't fun and there's no sense in playing.

Well, if my ranking reforms go through, he'll be less ahead than he is now :)

[Tiberius Claudius Marcellus]

Mini, those are the things that we need. I hope you can get enough Duxi or higher to bring them about as charter ammendments. You'll have me to second each and every one of them.

[everyone]

I suppose right now there is nobody who could propose unlimited number of CA's/edicts.
I think if we propose and implement the rule change thing like LotR, anyone can propose unlimited number of CA's.
and this post is to remind everyone else that we really need a 'rule changing' system.

[mini]

Yes, it would make sense that a proposal like mine, encompassing such a big change to the game mechanic, should be able to be suggested by anyone. Since these kinds of things benefit all participants, it shouldn't be limited by rank or number.


Of course, CA which are only for the benefit of the group which supports it, which do not deal with the game mechanics, these should be limited of course by rank and number.


You can be sure that I will revise my earlier rank reforms once more in the beginning of next week (I got 3 days off so I have the time) and I will further fine tune them.
Then I will present the final design and will request authorization of navarro to propose the mechanic change, as this is his game.

For example we also need a system of quick-votes. There are certain IC things that we should be able to vote upon WITHIN the same turn. Of course this will be about smallish things (like cotta's triumph) only. And Voting will last 48hrs maxium for such issues.

Stuff like this are needed to keep the game dynamic.
The same thing about 'loopholes' in the rules. I think that if someone finds a LEGAL way to bend a rule, he should be let! This is the spirit of the historical roman ways, and creativity should be rewarded! This does NOT mean that rules are to be broken.

I'm just saying that if anyone finds a loophole, and can present his case with perfect legal logic, it should be allowed.


The problem is that the current rules are largely copied from LOTR, and are simply not translated to a roman republic government.

[Mooks]

Not everyone comes in here everyday though, just how long are these sudden voting sessions last?

O ya, and im back from my 1 day boycott of btsh. Next time you make me mad navarro, ill go on a hunger strike. Can your conscience handle that navarro? I didnt think so. :dizzy2:

[mini]

These sudden votes will last 36-48 hrs.
As these votes need to be concluded before the next turn, we can't let them take any longer or the game becomes too slow.

But rest assured this will only concern small issues. Anything serious will still have to be voted in edicts during sessions.
But some things must be allowed to be decided in the spurr of the moment :)

[Mooks]

These sudden votes will last 36-48 hrs.
As these votes need to be concluded before the next turn, we can't let them take any longer or the game becomes too slow.

But rest assured this will only concern small issues. Anything serious will still have to be voted in edicts during sessions.
But some things must be allowed to be decided in the spurr of the moment :)

If you propose it ill vote for it.

[SwissBarbar]

check the curia mooks and go on a hunger strike :laugh4: :laugh4:

[Mooks]

check the curia mooks and go on a hunger strike :laugh4: :laugh4:

Ya....I forgot completely about that rule.

[mini]

TO NAVARRO:

I'll be off this weekend, so I'll have no acces to internet.

Should the congressional session start this weekend, could you be so kind as to extend it?
I've got 3 days off next week (monday-tuesday-wednesday) so I have the time to fully detail all my reforms and put them in this next session.


Seeing as many are pro my reforms, I do not want them being only half-work.
But I do not want to miss the session if it already starts this weekend.


I hope nobody disagrees on an extension :)

[everyone]

don't worry, congressional session starts around 24 hours from now, and probably lasts 3 days; you'll have the last day-and-a-half to propose your laws.

[everyone]

type toggle_fow in console, should to the trick

if nothign changes, type it again.

If that doesnt do the trick, i dont klnow

vista can't open console (yes the one with the ~ key), and I don't know how (I tried turning off the radio thing-whatever that is- as mentioned in one thread, and it doesn't work). and it would be much more convenient if somebody who takes the save turns it off rather than wait for me to look for a solution to my console-opening problem and turn it off.

[mini]

i got vista and i can open the console :)

for me it's the ² key (left above tab) or ù (which is for me on the second letter-line, second button from the right)

[everyone]

the what?
sorry, I think our keyboard layouts are different, mine follows qwerty layout, and tab is at the most left, so there's nothing topleft of tab and I don't have the ù key.

[mini]

haha

i got azerty ;P

my ² key = your ~ key (right under escape, right?)

my ù key = your ; key

[/Bean\]

TCM, its hardly my fault that I'm a higher rank than everyone else. You can't say the games going to get boring because I'm the highest ranking player. I have played entirely by the rules. I have over 20 battle points, which, with the game rules we started with, allows me to become a Praetor. I have not broken any rules to get thus far.

I am also really starting to get tired of people saying this Carthaginian event was set up to benefit me. How the hell has it done that? It was designed for Legio I to go to Gaul, and at the time TCV was in charge of that. He was not involved in the event planning at all. And the other part was Legio III or IV go to Sicily. Thats the more inactive players' legions who havent seen much action. The fact that you haven't gone to Sicily and you chose to stay in Epidamnos for ages is none of my fault is it? I was always in Greece, so how was it ever benefitting me?

I wasnt even involved in the planning. All I said was, I want an event. Everyone said he had an idea for one. Then he sent the idea to Navarro for implementation, and me because I asked what it would be. I took no part in its design whatsoever.

For your information, I want Mini's rank rules to pass. I like the idea of voted offices much more than rank rises. The highest any non-office Senator can be should be Dux, and then Consul or Praetor are elects. That balances things and makes it more interesting. But I am not going to simply say I am not going to fight any battles just because no one else is my rank. Thats stupid. I am sure you would have a similar argument in my position.

[everyone]

As far as I know, bean has played by the rules; and if Asina didn't die in battle, by now I would probably be the highest ranking near-emperor character. so it's all a matter of the time you've played and the opportunities that arises. such as in WotB, earlier on my character Hermokrates Parthikos didn't do a lot of things, he just went around with Sarpedon's Royal Army. because no opportunities appeared then.

and the only thing which bean is related to the event is by endorsing (e.g. saying "I support it") it before I sent it to navarro. so he wasn't part of the planning or whatnot.

so there, we shouldn't have OOC arguments about IC stuff like character ranks/events.
~:grouphug:

[navarro951]

Not everyone comes in here everyday though, just how long are these sudden voting sessions last?

O ya, and im back from my 1 day boycott of btsh. Next time you make me mad navarro, ill go on a hunger strike. Can your conscience handle that navarro? I didnt think so. :dizzy2:

haha very well, just read the rules better.


TO NAVARRO:

I'll be off this weekend, so I'll have no acces to internet.

Should the congressional session start this weekend, could you be so kind as to extend it?
I've got 3 days off next week (monday-tuesday-wednesday) so I have the time to fully detail all my reforms and put them in this next session.


Seeing as many are pro my reforms, I do not want them being only half-work.
But I do not want to miss the session if it already starts this weekend.


I hope nobody disagrees on an extension :)

i plan on extending it anyway, i know there IS MUCH to talk about.

[mini]

Thanks

Now I can enjoy my weekend in peace :p

[everyone]

whoa. I didn't notice the quaestor's rank requirements were changed......which makes it more confusing. I think I'll just wait for mini's rank change proposals.

[Tiberius Claudius Marcellus]

Bean, it absolutely is NOT your fault for being either a higher rank nor for being so much higher than anyone else. The game system is unbalanced, and like any good video game it requires a patch to nerf certain aspects or make other things stronger/better.

Why can't I say the game is boring because either you or anyone else is a higher ranking player? I can say whatever I want; but what I said was that the game was becoming less fun because only one person was so much higher than all the others. Again, it is an balancing issue.

It is very true that you have broken no rules whatsoever, and I'm not angry with you for your success in the game. My issue is with the balancing of the game. You are the only Praetor, even your closest IC allies are only Duxi or Legati. Your opposition is the same and it makes for lopsided gameplay since you can form a house and start a civil war and attack your IC enemies, whereas they can only respond to your attacks - you get the unfair advantage of a "pre-emptive" first strike; which I believe goes against the spirit of the game. Now, that's not to say that you would necessarily take such action; but it is a realistic threat.

Regarding the Punic War Event, it is circumstantial evidence at best; but when you look at it from the outside, it was proposed by a group of IC friends, voted in-favor by IC friends, and it is currently benefiting only those IC friends - Legio I is getting experience fighting in Gaul, Legio II is getting experience fighting in Illyria, and the Legio III was actually only assigned - by edict - the role to go guard the northern passes to the Alps. We were voted to do absolutely nothing except guard against an AI incursion while all the other armies were assigned active fighting. We took it upon ourselves to fight the rebels in Italy when TCV's computer went down. In Game, Legio I and II are best of buds and so the events, while they may truly not be a 'plot' are skewed to benefit a limited number of people. Your character has benefited from it personally by having been assinged the role of the only fighting force near a hostile enemy (either by the 'event' itself or by an edict). You have gained rank, personal body guards, the role of provincial governor, and now a Triumphus *(which you do deserve).

I wasn't in charge of moving the Third Legion anywhere until just this week when Potocello couldn't take the save because of RL goings on. And again, our assigned mission per the Edict was to go north and sit - NOT to go to Sicily or Rhegion. We defied that senate order purposely in order to bring some balance and hopefully get in a fight with some Carthaginians. The Legio IV Roma was supposed to fight the rebels in Italy and guard the southern tip of the penninsula. In the end, we didn't miss out on any action because - by the design of others - we weren't supposed to get any.

And everyone, Asina - may he rest in peace - would most definitely be Praetor by now, which would be absolutely peachy keen if there were others to be even close to balancing the power he would have. Again, I do not seek to punish success or impede just and fair progression. I only want to balance the game mechanics to keep it fun and near-neck and neck between rivals.

[navarro951]

Bean, it absolutely is NOT your fault for being either a higher rank nor for being so much higher than anyone else. The game system is unbalanced, and like any good video game requires a patch to nerf certain aspects or make other things stronger/better.

Why can't I say the game is boring because either you or anyone else is a higher ranking player? I can say whatever I want; but what I said was that the game was becoming less fun because only one person was so much higher than all the others. Again, it is an balancing issue.

It is very true that you have broken no rules whatsoever, and I'm not angry with you for your success in the game. My issue is with the balancing of the game. You are the only Quaestor, even your closest IC allies are only Duxi or Legati. Your opposition is the same and it makes for lopsided gameplay since you can form a house and start a civil war and attack your IC enemies, whereas they can only respond to your attacks - you get the unfair advantage of a "pre-emptive" first strike; which I believe goes against the spirit of the game. Now, that's not to say that you would necessarily take such action; but it is a realistic threat.

Regarding the Punic War Event, it is circumstantial evidence at best; but when you look at it from the outside, it was proposed by a group of IC friends, voted in-favor by IC friends, and it is currently benefiting only those IC friends - Legio I is getting experience fighting in Gaul, Legio II is getting experience fighting in Illyria, and the Legio III was actually only assigned - by edict - the role to go guard the northern passes to the Alps. We were voted to do absolutely nothing except guard against an AI incursion while all the other armies were assigned active fighting. We took it upon ourselves to fight the rebels in Italy when TCV's computer went down. In Game, Legio I and II are best of buds and so the events, while they may truly not be a 'plot' are skewed to benefit a limited number of people. Your character has benefited from it personally by having been assinged the role of the only fighting force near a hostile enemy (either by the 'event' itself or by an edict). You have gained rank, personal body guards, the role of provincial governor, and now a Triumphus *(which you do deserve).

I wasn't in charge of moving the Third Legion anywhere until just this week when Potocello couldn't take the save because of RL goings on. And again, our assigned mission per the Edict was to go north and sit - NOT to go to Sicily or Rhegion. We defied that senate order purposely in order to bring some balance and hopefully get in a fight with some Carthaginians. The Legio IV Roma was supposed to fight the rebels in Italy and guard the southern tip of the penninsula. In the end, we didn't miss out on any action because - by the design of others - we weren't supposed to get any.

And everyone, Asina - may he rest in peace - would most definitely be Praetor by now, which would be absolutely peachy keen if there were others to be even close to balancing the power he would have. Again, I do not seek to punish success or impede just and fair progression. I only want to balance the game mechanics to keep it fun and near-neck and neck between rivals.

Actually, if i could get at least YOUR support Legio IV under my temporary command and you with Legio III could take sicilia and you would no doubt be near quaestor by then. You have to remember the event was in no way made to better our position. Bean has been in command of Legio II since its formation so he has been around longer. In WotB, like everyone said, I was nothing until I finally got a shot at commanding my own army. Everyone was moving up and I finally made the second rank. So i see your point, but its simply who came first. Bean has been here, along with everyone, since day 1 of BtSH so regardless of how we reform ranks he still would of been somewhere.

Indeed, had asina not died, he would be even MORE powerful than cotta.


whoa. I didn't notice the quaestor's rank requirements were changed......which makes it more confusing. I think I'll just wait for mini's rank change proposals.

personally i recommend against this but its entirely up to you.

[mini]

Does that mean you are against my rank reforms navarro?

[navarro951]

Does that mean you are against my rank reforms navarro?

o Im sorry absolutely not. I find you knowledge of Roman rank and military structure fantastic and look forward to how you present them. If you have a few in a "finalized" stage Id love to see them in a PM so we can come to a gamemaster/player conclusion and I will even help you propose a few of them as CA's or Edicts.

I am simply saying that you cant argue with a hefty amount of time put into a game you know? Experience and time is bound to get its rewards. I suppose the best example would be to jump into LotR...they have many houses with many high ups and it would take time for you to get your own land and things you see? (if you dont know what i mean you can read their rules. It is much more of a challenge to get promoted)

[mini]

I am already involved in LOTR, so I know what you mean.
And it's true that ppl that play more, should GET more :)


That's why in my system, you have to get somewhere first, before you can get elected to the nifty offices.



You can expect a PM on Monday from me :)

[navarro951]

I am already involved in LOTR, so I know what you mean.
And it's true that ppl that play more, should GET more :)


That's why in my system, you have to get somewhere first, before you can get elected to the nifty offices.



You can expect a PM on Monday from me :)

Indeed, I look forward to seeing them and appreciate your time and effort into bettering my game :2thumbsup:

[navarro951]

okay i have reinstalled everything, not sure why it happened anyway, but I am able to take the save now. During the coming council phase 2 will be implemented. Still waiting for those event stories everyone :yes:

[everyone]

okay i have reinstalled everything, not sure why it happened anyway, but I am able to take the save now. During the coming council phase 2 will be implemented. Still waiting for those event stories everyone :yes:

ehwhat? oh here:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2167117

@ TCM:
and I almost forgot about that weird edict saying legio III should stay and guard somewhere, so I didn't really consider that as your argument. the 12 turns which it applies is almost over, therefore another decision needs to be made about legio III.
but since Cicero decided to retrain legio III first, it seems III is the one which is going to see action sooner.


personally i recommend against this but its entirely up to you.
well I don't see the difference....basing on what mini posted earlier, and the clarifications I made, Quaestors would be provincial governors without provincial legions. never mind.

[navarro951]

yes, I will be spawning war ships for us at no cost.

[navarro951]

new map in the library, hope you all like. I will use a different color each time, sorta like a history book. I probably wont update it again till say 245 er so.

edit: ill also update it with other factions expansions soon. For now it just shows us, il re upload when im done.

[/Bean\]

Please find below, for your convenience, maps of various areas of the Romani extension by year.

Yearly extension of the Romani

https://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z132/mstgnymike/ebmap.jpg


Surely if your doing that, Navarro, you need to show the other factions' progressions as well? Otherwise, very cool idea.:beam:

[Iskander 3.1]

This is not Calvin Ball.

Can we still make them sing the "I'm so Sorry Song"?

:)

[navarro951]

you gonna end the turn soon everyone? so we can get this council goin.

[everyone]

it's not 24 hours yet, so I can't end it now, but it's less than 12 hours left. and there may still be people who are going to take the save (e.g. bean, TCM).
speaking of taking saves, next person to do so, please turn on fog of war.

[navarro951]

well this game is supposed to be played without FOW you know :yes:

[everyone]

turn on fow = unlift fog of war, which means the fog of war is there, so we can't see everything in the map.
and we may have different interpretation of what 'turn on fow' means

[navarro951]

wow, surprised to see LotR discussing its possible end. Makes me fear civil wars in this game even more, and im also glad i made the personal legions rule. :idea2:

[Tiberius Claudius Marcellus]

Mooks, you going to take the save tonight? The consular legion killed the last rebel army in Italia, so there's nothing for you to fight, unfortunately; but if you want to move us somewhere, go for it. Tomorrow the council begins and there's nothing anyone will be able to do.

[everyone]

I shall be taking the save in around 5 hours....and if you don't have enough time to take the save, place whatever you want your character to do in your SOT.
@ bean: you need not move legio II away from Illyria, just move those garrison units back.

[/Bean\]

No, I'm taking the whole legion back before half the Senate kill themselves...and then me. :beam:

And then I'll 'travel' to Roma for the Congressional Session, my Triumph and some telling off's.

@Mini, have you decided what CA's your going to propose? Cos I would suggest you use one of them to see if we can propose CA's outside of the Congressionals.

[Tiberius Claudius Marcellus]

@ Mini:

I believe you can condense your Charter Ammendments (since we have a limited number of Duxasaureses) into their scope.

That is to say, put all rank changes into one Charter Ammendment, all governing changes into another, all electable offices into a separate one, etc so that way we can get them all in this session.

Good luck, I'm looking forward to seconding them

[/Bean\]

Yeah thats a good point. I also have 2 CA proposal using things. Too bad I'm not Provincial Governer anymore. They have unlimited CA proposal things.

Are we voting for Consuls and TotP's this session as well?

Oh, and if Mini's not here for the weekend, how is he going to propose his laws? Did he PM anyone?

[Tiberius Claudius Marcellus]

Bean, you entered the Curia like some evil wizard come to steal the village maidens and demand subservience from the town folk!

[/Bean\]

I thought thats how everybody saw me nowadays. :laugh4:

I hate not being able to use the word 'everyone' without worrying Everyone will think I'm talking about him...:clown:

[desert]

So guys, how does my character sound in the Curia? Is he boring, rude, and arrogant enough? Does he hate plebeians enough? If you need a reference, check his traits in the penultimate page of the Sign-up thread.

[navarro951]

^^haha hes okay in my book. I do think all this nonsense about taking cotta away from his command is a bit dumb. Its like taking the 13th from Caesar. You cant blame him for following orders and winning battles. This isnt preschool where we all share a chance to pet the bunny

[/Bean\]

This is starting to get too harsh now. An edict against me? What the hell? I hate Pleblian-hating Senators...:smash:

[desert]

I'm actually against TCM in RL, but I need to roleplay him according to his traits.

So, really, do his traits match his character in the Curia? Should he be more boring? Dumber?

I need to know!

[navarro951]

Ya that is a bit farout.

[desert]

Oh crap, I just realized that Appius is a tribunus and cant make any edicts!

[navarro951]

^^^wrong check the library he is a legate.

[desert]

Really? He fought in battles? Maybe I should do some investigating...

[/Bean\]

If thats Il_Duces old character, yes he is a legate. He was my first Tribune.


A report is brought to Dux Cornelius Blasio...

"I have sent for this report here, and it says here Appivs Clavdivs Nero and Avlvs Aemilivs Mamercvs are the most senior in promotion. If none of them two are to be accepted by this senate then it falls to Tiberivs Clavdivs Marcellvs and Decimvs Cornelivs Scipio. I say we simply vote on all candidates during legislation voting."



OOC: Caivs Aemilivs Mamercvs would be on that list by Mjolnir is about to be placed inactive.


Wouldnt Scipio (Tolg) also qualify?

[desert]

You don't mind if I RP him as never having served in the military, right?

And that he never personally met Caius, do you Baen?

[navarro951]

You don't mind if I RP him as never having served in the military, right?

And that he never personally met Caius, do you Baen?

Sort of impossible now. He served in battles and thats that.

[desert]

Ach! I already made a completely new personality for him though!

I would need to remove the whole post I made in the Curia and start RPing him as Cotta's supporter!

Please please please please! ~:mecry::date:

[/Bean\]

He never was my supporter, just because he served under me. And that was about 15 years ago...

[desert]

Ok, when did he stop serving under you?

Maybe I could say that once his tribunus days were over (a decade ago), he became very antisocial and meanspirited.

[/Bean\]

After Asina died I think...somewhere around that time

[desert]

Ok. So that was in '66. I'll just round it out to 10 years.

[everyone]

I got a question, isn't Blasio a dux? couldn't Duxes (don't know the plural here) only propose 1 edict/charter amendment?
anyway, I'm going to use my charter amending abilities which I have not used for a long time

[navarro951]

3.41
Rule Changes: Rule Changes require a two-thirds majority of unweighted votes (1 vote per player) to pass. Rule Changes can permanently change the Game Rules. Any player can propose Rule Changes, regardless of IC rank at any given time. The gamemaster can veto any proposed Rule Change, but does not vote.

Mm not sure i like this. There are certain rules I simply do not want to change. And I dont want to have to veto new ideas every council that i dont like and then have people be pissed at me for it.

[everyone]

hmm, maybe I'll edit that a little on my post in the Curia; I'm sure you won't place two asterisks at the end of every rule

[navarro951]

Indeed its better now.

[/Bean\]

I might kill my character off soon. I'm bored of everyone hating him now

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

But Bean, what would we do without you! if you were gone we would have to find someone else to sucker punch in the groin about being to powerfull. :clown:

[/Bean\]

That would be nice...I've reserved Titvs Avrelivs Cotta anyway. It just feels too much like Stalinist Russia at the moment. Anyone who gets a bit of power is eradicated, kinda puts me off wanting promotion anymore.

[navarro951]

But Bean, what would we do without you! if you were gone we would have to find someone else to sucker punch in the groin about being to powerfull. :clown:

so, sadly, true. jealousy is an a-hole!

[desert]

Well, it does make sense. :sweatdrop:

If a guy was running for consul every year in Rome, he would seem like a power-hungry madman.

Would this game be any fun if everyone were just basically going out, conquering the crap out of the enemy, and then coming home for iced tea and backslapping congratulations?

It helps if you see the eventual goal of this game as allowing us to RP and act out civil wars.

[/Bean\]

Oh I'm sorry, I only thought that was the whole point of the game...I didn't know promotion was not a good thing.

And I really do have to stop running for Consul every year...

[navarro951]

Oh I'm sorry, I only thought that was the whole point of the game...I didn't know promotion was not a good thing.

And I really do have to stop running for Consul every year...

lol easy now boys. I dont want another Mod in here on me. I do have a "Gamemasters CA" as i would call it to propose that may calm some of u.

GCA: That all armies after a period of 10 years must return to a city in Italia to "disband". They will not actually disband it will be more like leave. And then a new general will be chosen for the next 10 years.

What u guys think?

[desert]

If the whole point of the game is to get lots of promotions, I don't want to play.

What makes it fun is the RP, not that we all get to be Praetors and Quaestors and Duxes and Consuls.

All of these promotions and fighting (against Roma's enemies) is incidental. It just aids the RP.

We aren't trying to be mean, Baen, come on.

[/Bean\]

I bet the next person to reach Praetor will be free of any ridicule. I've hardly done it to make it less fun for everyone else. I haven't not been roleplaying. If its incidential that I've been getting promotions, why is everyone getting so worked up about it?

[desert]

Well, I actually agree with you. But for many senators in Rome, you would be seen as getting too powerful too quickly. You are the ONLY praetor, so when the balance of power evens out, less people will complain.

[/Bean\]

Someone has to be praetor first. I am the longest playing character. Asina died, Dentatvs died, Scipio went ill. So its only natural I become the quickest riser.

[desert]

So?

[Tiberius Claudius Marcellus]

lol easy now boys. I dont want another Mod in here on me. I do have a "Gamemasters CA" as i would call it to propose that may calm some of u.

GCA: That all armies after a period of 10 years must return to a city in Italia to "disband". They will not actually disband it will be more like leave. And then a new general will be chosen for the next 10 years.

What u guys think?


I like that as an option. It definitely balances the power of people and rotates the new guys into the military. I've yet to read Mini's proposals yet, so maybe that drastic a change won't be needed.


Someone has to be praetor first. I am the longest playing character. Asina died, Dentatvs died, Scipio went ill. So its only natural I become the quickest riser.

You're right - someone has to be first; but when you just get so far ahead of everyone, it loses its fun. By the nature of the rules as they stand, the only way to gain rank, and therefore power, is to fight battles. Unless you command a legion, you can't get battle points and therefore you can't be promoted. Once you started fighting everyone in Illyria you just left everyone in the dust - friends and enemies. It's not your fault, and no one is really mad at you IRL - we just want the mechanics changed to let more people be closer together so that adversaries are strong enough to compete.

[navarro951]

OKAY I MUST ASK THE QUESTION: I WILL BE PROPOSING "GAMEMASTER" CHARTER AMENDMENTS IN THIS COUNCIL DOES ANYONE HAVE A PROBLEM? THEY WILL ALL BE STRICTLY TO BETTER YOUR GUYS FUN. I FEEL, WHILE IT IS COMPLETELY JUSTIFIED, THAT BEAN'S PLAYER DID RISE QUICKLY. SO IF YOU WILL ALL ALLOW ME I WILL BE PROPOSING CA'S TO BETTER MY GAME, THEY WONT REQUIRE SECONDS JUST YOUR VOTE. AT THE MOMENT ALL I HAVE TO PROPOSE IS THE ONE ABOUT 10 YEAR LEGION SERVICE. IS THIS ALRIGHT WITH YOU GUYS AS MY PLAYERS?

[navarro951]

"I also re-second the newest version of Edict 6.1, however, Cnaeus Cornelius, you must place a limit on the length of the term of such governance. I believe it has been customary to last a length of two years. I trust that such an ammendment will be made to the final draft before it is submitted for voting."


It is not rule to have a two year term. Provincial Governings are actually life long things unless the senate strips it or an edict says otherwise. Blasio is asking for full Provincial Governing of Taras, not a termed version. He wishes to settle down as a governor and a consul as well.

[Tiberius Claudius Marcellus]

I know its not a rule, when I said "you must...." I assumed that you had just forgotten to write that in there because I believed you'd be taking the same type of governorship as both Bean and everyone have had/are proposing.

If this is the case, my character won't want you to be governor of anywhere for the rest of your life except in your own home. I'm going to have to have him withdraw his support for your Provincial Governorship if it is indeed intended to be a life-term.

Regarding your GM-CA's I'm torn on the issue. Since this is your game, you need to be able to control it. I understand and respect that. However, it is also a 'living' changing thing that is enjoyable in part because it allows players to have a say as to how the game operates as a whole and not just their particular character.

I suppose the best path is the one you've decided to take: You can make unlimited numbers of proposals and they don't need to be seconded - which satisfies your need and your right to be able to control the game. By still allowing players to vote on the matters, you give us a sense of freedom and responsibility for our own fun. My largest issue is what will be the difference between the limited number of CA's that your avatar can make and the unlimited numbers that you as GM can make? Will they be different in what they cover or will you just be able to propose anything at all?

Unless we pass a CA here that allows us to vote inbetween congressional sessions, I feel that you should still only propose your GM-CA's during the normal voting session. This will give all the players enough time to experience the rule changes and make an informed decision when it comes time to changing them. As we all know, the time between sessions isn't that long anyway.

As far as your current GM-CA to limit the number of years a player can command a legion to 10, I agree with that - it will allow more players to get into the legions and therefore earn battle points and gain ranks.

[navarro951]

Well yes I would only use things when they concern things like the Legion command term issue. And they still get voted on as well.

also: if you never allow someone to have a prov.governing for life, we will never have families/houses then. They require land to call their "own".

[everyone]

Since mini's reforms mention that once the player's terms as consuls/praetors are up, they may chose a province as their provincial governorship. perhaps a rule should mention that "if a praetor/consuls retains his office after the congressional session which he selects a province to govern, his provincial governorship would be permanent unless the player choses so." which means if they are elected to be praetor twice in a row; after the first time he may chose his province, and when he choses his province he has been elected to praetor again, the province he choses shall be permanent, unless he choses so.

and the edict I made Cicero proposed was because Legio I is expected to see action again, and the Massalian spy revealed a halfstack Carthaginian army moving north over a few turns; so I assume it's another of AI carthage's attempt to recreate Hannibal

[navarro951]

ya the only thing i dont like is electing Praetors. Only because we already have three elections as it is.

[everyone]

well, it would be different from consul's elections if you follow my definition:
there are unlimited number of praetor positions, it's a matter of whether that guy is voted into the position. so the voters just vote "yes" or "no" for the single guy so it would be like:

Praetor Voting:
* Caius Claudius (yes)
* Caius Claudius (no)
* Cnaeus Aurelius (yes)
* Cnaeus Aurelius (no)
* Aulus Cornelius (yes)
* Aulus Cornelius (no)
* Tiberius Curius (yes)
* Tiberius Curius (no)
...etc

so anyone who gets more nos than yeses would not get the position

[Tiberius Claudius Marcellus]

Everyone, you should edit the names in that post, I have the feeling that they will be deemed to be of a sexual, and thereofre, inappropriate nature :-/

[everyone]

right, I replaced the monty python roman names with the praenomens and gens of our characters scrambled up.

[/Bean\]

Please tell me you have seen Monty Python TCM :laugh4:

[Tiberius Claudius Marcellus]

wink wink, nudge nuge, say no more sir, say no more! a wink's as good as a nudge to a blind bat. Eh? Eh? Eh? He asked him knowingly.

and now for something completely different

Of course, how can one not have seen the Pythons? They're hillarious.

[everyone]

huzzah! TCV is here! together with his frequent rate of posting a TCM's amazing method of convincing people that his sometimes absurd ideas are right; the Curia is now a very dangerous place.

[Iskander 3.1]

How about 9 or 12 years? That way we could correspond legion rotation with council sessions.

[Tiberius Claudius Marcellus]

That really sounds like the best to me, that way everything can be done at the same time. I'll put my vote on 9 years

[navarro951]

I second Edict 6.8 on the condition that it is a simple majority sentate vote, not a 3/4 vote.

Im no math wizz but 3/4s is a majority vote. 2/4s would be no majority at all.

[everyone]

I suppose majority vote refers to as long as there are more "yes" than "no", like for our current edicts; not a 3/4 votes for stuff like CAs. but I'm not sure whether does Iskander refer to the votes as weighted

[navarro951]

I suppose majority vote refers to as long as there are more "yes" than "no", like for our current edicts; not a 3/4 votes for stuff like CAs. but I'm not sure whether does Iskander refer to the votes as weighted

well thats not a matter to be debated. votes are always weighted upon influence except in elections.

[Mooks]

I went out for 1 day, and come back and have 5000+ words to read. Some of the posts in the curia are essays, its insane. Is noone else getting this but me?

[navarro951]

When I left that one weekend with my aunt, I know how you feel its hell.

[Mooks]

When I left that one weekend with my aunt, I know how you feel its hell.

Wouldnt be so bad if it wasnt a congressional session. Then I could be lazy and just say its all arguing of no importance.

[navarro951]

Wouldnt be so bad if it wasnt a congressional session. Then I could be lazy and just say its all arguing of no importance.

ya true, only two pages to catch up to.

[mini]

I'm preparing my reforms as we speak.

Due to the nature of my reforms (basically the whole mechanic gets a turnaround), it will be 1 charter amendement, but it will include several adjustments to various rules.
This is necessary to balance the game. If i'd propose my rank reforms alone, without the rest of the changes, it would lead to misfits andholes in the system.


I hope I am forgiven for making it 1 big change, but i want it to go through as I intended, not chopped into pieces :)


Rest assured that I will consult with navarro first to receive his approval and any suggestion he might have as a GM.

[/Bean\]

Yay he's back!

[SwissBarbar]

looking forward to seeing it

[everyone]

huzzah!!!!!
:applause::applause::applause::applause::applause:
:smash::smash::smash::smash::smash:

let's see how it's implemented, personally I never got around to figure out how to patch up the holes caused by those rank reforms.
Anyway, I'm going back to conquering India. I finally got ETW to work in my laptop with a new graphics card.

[The Celtic Viking]

Are you actually planning on reinstating the Princeps rank, or is that just a left over? Because I like all the others, but that one's a deal breaker for me.

[mini]

the princeps will be included, but his power is knotted in several ways.
It will be represented in a historical way, yet will not gain ascendancy in power over the elected offices.


I have finished the bulk of the reforms, ranks included.
If navarro could give me a pm or anything, wem ight meet on IRC/MSN where I will present them and discuss.

[SwissBarbar]

in your historical knowledge we trust :book:

[Iskander 3.1]

Yeah, I meant weighted simple majority.

[Iskander 3.1]

Welcome back Mini, can't wait to see what you're proposing!

[mini]

Well

I will givve you a teaser :)

in order to comprehend my reforms, i've made a list of concepts for navarro, which will need introduction to the game to enjoy the reforms in full :)


I'll give the concepts already, so you might understand the reforms a little better when i do present them :)



1. Office Terms
Every rank is valid for 12 turns. After each 12 turns there will be a congressional session and new elections for offices.
Only exception is the tribunus Plebis, who will be active for 24 turns.

2. Character Points

To get to the next rank, every player must get a certain amount of 'CP's'.
Character points are gained from participating in IC events and having your character do something in-game

Battle
"Crushing Defeat" -3 points
"Clear Defeat" -2 point
"Average Defeat" -1 point
"Close Defeat" -1/2 point
"Close Victory" 1 point
"Average Victory" 2 point
"Clear Victory" 3 points
"Heroic Victory" 4 points

Governing
1CP for villages, towns, large towns
2CP for Cities, Large Cities
3CP for Huge Cities

A character which is NOT the main commander of the legion, but does participate in the battle will receive the following points:
1/2 of the normal points if this character is a Legatus. (rounded up)
1/3 if he is a quaestor (rounded down)

To the GM: please note that points will be rounded to 0.25
example:
a quaestor who participated in a close victory: 1 * 1/3 =0.33 (rounds down) == 0.25 CP's
a legatus who participated in the same battle: 1 * 1/2 = 0.50CP


3. Pomerium

This included all cities of italy below the padus river.
(Ingame this means: Arretium/ariminum are the northern border of the pomerium. Then it goes al lthe way south to taras/Rhegion.)

This will be the area regarded as homeland. Keep it in mind for it will be mentioned @ ranks.


4.Provinces

A province will be an area in-game, determined by a Charter Amendement, that will or may included several cities in a region and will be governed by a PG (provincial governor)
As the Empire grows bigger, provinces may change in shape/size. ALL NON-POMERIUM CITIES WILL HAVE TO HAVE TYPEII.
Client-ruled cities do not count as a province.

For example: Sicily is a province. It will have 1 governor who will chose his 'capital'. This chosen capital will nto be able to be governed by a quaestor during the term of the governor.
Publius cornelius is now an ex-consul, and choses as his province Sicily. He then declares Lilybaem his capital, so from there he governs.
His nephew is new in the senate, and Publius Cornelius asks the CoF if his nephew can serve him as a quaestor.
Publius Cornelius can now ask his nephew to govern either one of sicily's other cities.


5. Theatre of War
A theatre of war is a province which is adjacent to a nation of which we are at war with.
For instance: Illyria when we are at war with epeirus.
When a CoL is elected, he may declare his Theatre of War, providing the neighbouring faction is at war with us.
This allows the consul to take control of the province and wager war on the neighbouring faction.
The CoL is the ONLY person who may ventured into enemy territory without approval of the senate. (as longs as the enemy is in a state of war)

6. CASUS BELLI
This concept means the Republic only goes to war with a VALID REASON.
We only attack when we are attacked, or our allies have been attacked, or a nations threatens the status quo in our region.
Provincial Governors are therefore not allowed to take their legion into foreign territory.
Unless the foreigners have intruded our land or attacked us.

This also means that as long as a faction does not attack us/allies placed close to us, governors cannot conquer any new cities.
Only the CoL can venture out to gain new cities.

In case we are attacked, a provincial governor may send word to the senate, who may vote an edict for revenge.

7. Voting system
The congressional system as it is remains, with a few additions:

The Tribunus Plebeis may enfore 2 edicts per term without vote.

A provincial Governor may call of Vote on War: this means that a PG may request the senate to allow him to conquer a foreign settlement of a faction currently not at war with the SPQR.
This includes rebel cities. This may happen when the foreign faction has had troops on our territory or the faction is showing 'bad intentions' to us or our allies.
The governor must provide evidence for a casus belli, after which he may create a poll. No seconding required.

IC voting: several small IC-related things may also require a voting outside the session. This will regard things that do not affect in-game issues (for example giving bean a triumph)
IC voting can be started by anyone. It requires 3 'secondings' after which a voting poll will be isued.


Voting for any of the above will last for 24hrs after creation of the poll. No turn may be ended during this period.



8. Law system

Whenever an edicts contradicts a rule, the edicts will have to be judged by the current elected praetor.
He will have final word on the validness of the edict.

Of course, this means that praetors should take their responsability as not letting things get out of hand against the spirit of the game.

This is to represent the fickleness of ancient roman law.
THIS RULE IS DEBATABLE/OPTIONAL

[mini]

I'd like to add that, if my reforms go through, we will probably have to revise everyone's rank :)
After we have done that, we will have to hold new elections for offices and to draw the borders of the current provinces.

In the light of these, i noticed a lot of edicts going on in the curia.. most of these will have to be revised as wel.
Since my reforms will create an entire new balance and situation, most edicts will not even be applicable anymore unfortunately :)

[Tolg]

I like your ideas (8. as well), but perhaps we should vote on them during this congressional season and them implemented the changes only after this season/when the next congressional. seasons starts? (So that the current Edicts are still valid)

[Iskander 3.1]

Happy belated Ides of March everyone.

[SwissBarbar]

thank you friend. Sextus smiles at his friend from Legio II, a fake smile which didnt reach to his eyes.

What'cha lookin' at :whip:

:laugh4: :laugh4:

[everyone]

I think the implementations of mini's new ranks thing should include the line "the ranks revised and the characters who have their ranks changed shall be implemented by the next congressional session".
which means after this session, the next 12 turns will proceed as normal, until before the next session, ranks are updated so that the new ranks take effect then; and not this one since this session has already seen many proposals.

[/Bean\]

Yeah, otherwise we'd have to start the 3 days Congressional session time again, to give everyonebody time to begin again.

[mini]

Well i'll leave this up to navarro :)

[navarro951]

I think the implementations of mini's new ranks thing should include the line "the ranks revised and the characters who have their ranks changed shall be implemented by the next congressional session".
which means after this session, the next 12 turns will proceed as normal, until before the next session, ranks are updated so that the new ranks take effect then; and not this one since this session has already seen many proposals.

yes of course. it will be implemented as of NEXT congressional council. but placed in game THIS congressional council.

[Iskander 3.1]

Just out of curiosity, when will debate be closed and voting begin?

[mini]

as soon as navarro has chewed his way though my reforms i guess ^^

[navarro951]

just finished reading them ill be proposing it later today.

also: there is still 3 hours to go...

Have finished my few changes, which were minor, for the most part the reforms were great. Will be proposed in a few.

[Potocello]

Hey guys! Just posting to let you know i'm still doing this. Looks like i will be able to post more since my week of work, research projects, and SAT testing is over. Thank god, it was a tough tough week. Anyway, looks like i missed a lot in my week absence. Just want to thank TCM and Mooks and anyone else who helped out with the Legio III in my absence, i am ready to resume command.

I'll check the Curia etc. to get myself up to date and hopefully start posting again. :2thumbsup:

[Potocello]

Oh goodness Cotta is now a Praetor?! ugh =(

EDIT: BTW those reforms look great. :balloon2: to anyone who helped

[Tiberius Claudius Marcellus]

Sorry for being absent since Friday night/Saturday morning. Looks like I've missed quite a bit.

Potocello: glad to have you back, I won us a victory in Italia; but the IVth Legion came back in action and killed the last rebel army before Mooks could fight it.

Mini: Wow.....awesome. Freaking A. Wow. I love the whole aspect of having the governorship positions giving good experience to levelling up. This will really balance the game, I believe. Can't wait to vote.

[everyone]

I like the legions and new concepts stuff. I don't really like the rank reform though, 15 CPs to escape Tribunus-ship, 40 CPs for Consulship (Assuming that the guy just goes straight for consulship, but 25 if he doesn't)? that's a bit much don't you think? it's like needing him to either serve as a ToP (which takes 2 sessions) or participate in 10 battles, and so far all of our legions have yet to face 10 battles under the same commander.
and with the Privatuus rank, how do you go to TM from there?

I don't think it's a case on whether the game's ranks are historically accurate, but whether if it's fun playing.
I'll send some suggestions to navarro.

[mini]

well.. the POINT is that it is 'illegal' to run straight for consulship :) You have to get elected praetor first.
Of course I understand that people may want to bypass this in-game despite the historical accuracy of it. Which is why I implemented the way I did. Now you can run straight to consul IF you prove yourself over a length of time to the people of Rome that you are worthy of the office. Becoming consul without being a praetor was unheard of until the civil war with Sulla. The son of Gauius Marius was the first one ever to have been elected consul without having had another office previously. That was alrdy like what, 80-70BC? :)
Atleast I made it possible, but you can't expect me to give a free pass to people wishing to take this route.
Besides, what's 40CP?
If you idle in city for 4 sessions, you can do it already

And Everyone: you can request as a privatuus to be designated to a legion. When the consul then says: you can go to legio xx, you gain the TM rank.
Same thing for become a quaestor: you don't have to DO anything :) just wait until (or nag against him until he does) the CoF designates you to govern a city OR until you can get a provincial governor to request you :)

Granted: at the moment it takes a long time from quaestor to gain enough CP for praetorship.
But this is sort of the point. You can't expect to play roman offices and then that you can dash through the ranks on speedboat speed. If you have 'connections' enough (read: connected to powerful house), you can get yourself quaestored to a decent size city. This will give you 12 CP per session for governign that city.
If you do 1 battle and govern for 2 session, you are praetor-eligible.
I really do not think that that is slow.


Navarro: I forgot to include a few things:
if your city 'grows' in size under your management, you get 1 CP bonus at the end of your term.
If you are candidate for an office, you must announce this in the congressional session. ( "I hebery declare myself a candidate for the election of <office x>" in the curia should do it)

[everyone]

Besides, what's 40CP?
If you idle in city for 4 sessions, you can do it already
4 sessions is rather long, no we're only at our 5th session, and already around 3 months have passed; I wouldn't want to wait 2 months just to become someone important, save a month if I want to command a legion and get in action.
honestly, I don't think historical accuracy should be placed as a priority here. which is more important? being able to play the game with as many opportunities as possible by relaxing historical accuracy or needing to register for the game, wait 1 month, get into some action for 1 week, and by the time 4 sessions passed; things changed, etc.

and it also poses the problem of needing to wait a long time before anything could happen from now. for you see, I doubt Cotta could even run for Consulship by the next session regardless if this session's edicts against him passes. even so, there would only be 1 consul, and it wouldn't be good RP-wise, since guys from Legio III, Regulus and a few others don't like him.

This may be true real life; you start out in politics at say 25, then you stay as a minor position for a decade or so, then rise to a position of some importance and after another 10 years you go to a really high position. or not at all.

but apply that in a game where there is constant RP-ing and things are changing; wouldn't that be boring?

a person joins this game; he pesters the CoL to make him a Tribunus Militum. after a week, he gets the position. then 3 weeks later, his commander fights enough battles to get him the 15CPs, then he becomes a Legatus. so far a month has passed, and in that month, some important guy probably died, another important but unpopular guy gets voted in; half of the senators are attempting to impeach him and the ToPs have just been voted in, and the new player during his time as a Privatuus or a TM couldn't even do anything but say a few lines in the Curia about what his character thinks.

I'm not trying to say that your rule changes are nonsense or anything, but the rank reqs are unreasonable. you may say it's not about ranks and it's about the RPing, but how do you RP stuff you have little or no influence and when you're stuck at a low rank for a month; other than posting stories like "Gaius Julius Nero, a young intelligent man, wanders in the forum, blah blah blah, elderly senators in the Curia arguing over nothing, they need change, blah blah blah, I shall become consul one day and lead them to do some really amazing stuff like transforming into howitzers"

to show that my levels of yellow bile is not increased by such a discussion, I shall post a few emoticons
:elephant: :belly: :smg: :duel:

[mini]

4 sessions is rather long, no we're only at our 5th session, and already around 3 months have passed; I wouldn't want to wait 2 months just to become someone important, save a month if I want to command a legion and get in action.
honestly, I don't think historical accuracy should be placed as a priority here. which is more important? being able to play the game with as many opportunities as possible by relaxing historical accuracy or needing to register for the game, wait 1 month, get into some action for 1 week, and by the time 4 sessions passed; things changed, etc.

It's 4 sessions for the TOP position. If you do things the PROPER way, you get to be praetor in 2 sessions, after which you can become consul anyway

and it also poses the problem of needing to wait a long time before anything could happen from now. for you see, I doubt Cotta could even run for Consulship by the next session regardless if this session's edicts against him passes. even so, there would only be 1 consul, and it wouldn't be good RP-wise, since guys from Legio III, Regulus and a few others don't like him.

Navarry will translate the current battle points and ranks into the new system according to his vision.



a person joins this game; he pesters the CoL to make him a Tribunus Militum. after a week, he gets the position. then 3 weeks later, his commander fights enough battles to get him the 15CPs, then he becomes a Legatus. so far a month has passed, and in that month, some important guy probably died, another important but unpopular guy gets voted in; half of the senators are attempting to impeach him and the ToPs have just been voted in, and the new player during his time as a Privatuus or a TM couldn't even do anything but say a few lines in the Curia about what his character thinks.

He can also govern a city for 1 session, earning him 6 or 12 CP's + eventual CP if he is in a province and called upon to fight by the governor. Which means that he can reach praetor in 2 sessions. The military way is indeed the hardest way. But we need more men governing cities than we do need commanders at this point.

I'm not trying to say that your rule changes are nonsense or anything, but the rank reqs are unreasonable. you may say it's not about ranks and it's about the RPing, but how do you RP stuff you have little or no influence and when you're stuck at a low rank for a month;

Again: you're too focused on the level of ranks. It doesnt matter a fig if you're low ranked? You can govern your own city, can you not? You can participate in battles, can you not?
You gave an example of a new guy that joins, i'll give u one too:
Nero joins. He requests the CoF to give him a city. The newly elected COF is handing out jobs and gives nero Arretium in return for his loyalty. Nero governs that city for 2 sessions, building up connections.
He now has enough CP so he goes for praetor. the former CoF who gave him his job 2 sessions ago, uses his connections to get Nero elected.
After his term, Nero choses a province near gaul. He takes some screenshots from an army near the border, or it happens that the AI is havign a war the the averni-adui. So nero says: hey, the averni are our friends. Senate, I need to step in here.
Again connection are used and a casus belli is voted. Nero marches in with his legions and captures a region or 2 for the house he's connected to.

Now that sounds good to me. Granted, you have to play a while before you get to the fun part.
But if you want fast access to ALL the goodies.. why don't we dispense with ranks entirely then, and just have 2 consuls elected who get to decide who does what for their term?
This would fit what you're asking, but i'd bail out because it's unroman :)

[everyone]

fair enough; I did not think that one could go straight to Quaestorship from Privatuus. I assumed he had to complete the TM training stage beforehand (because I probably misread, or I had estimated the time needed wrongly and such. I apologise). so that completely obstructed me from thinking of a "governor's path" straight from the start.
I still have another question though; how many positions of Praetors and ToPs (or any other office ranks, besides Consul) are there supposed to be? I doubt it's only 1 position.

:balloon2: for your changes to the game

[SwissBarbar]

Actually I'm involved in the game for 5 seasons now and didn't fight one single battle yet. Therefore our fellow newcomers should not be too sad about not being allowed to fight for 2 seasons or so. Thus the Law-Reforms are ok to me.

[navarro951]

Actually I'm involved in the game for 5 seasons now and didn't fight one single battle yet. Therefore our fellow newcomers should not be too sad about not being allowed to fight for 2 seasons or so. Thus the Law-Reforms are ok to me.

an attitude i wish all players had...:balloon2: for u.

[SwissBarbar]

Thanks :2thumbsup:

[mini]

fair enough; I did not think that one could go straight to Quaestorship from Privatuus. I assumed he had to complete the TM training stage beforehand (because I probably misread, or I had estimated the time needed wrongly and such. I apologise). so that completely obstructed me from thinking of a "governor's path" straight from the start.
I still have another question though; how many positions of Praetors and ToPs (or any other office ranks, besides Consul) are there supposed to be? I doubt it's only 1 position.

:balloon2: for your changes to the game

Considering we have a small empire yet (thus no many prinvices beside the pomerium)

1 praetor
1 or 2 ToP


The beauty of these ranks, is that we can increase or decrease the number of praetors/ToP according to the amount of provinces and playerbase :)

[Iskander 3.1]

I'm with Swiss Barber here. (even if we don't agree IC!)

[/Bean\]

You just want a balloon Iskander :laugh4:.

We can always do a trial session, and if the CP's are taking too long to get we can re-reform, since any ToP can propose them out of session now.

May I ask what ranks are going to who, as in converting from old ranks to new ranks?

[SwissBarbar]

You know, just because you are not in my Legion , you don't implicitly have to disagree with me in the curia :laugh4: :laugh4:

But IC and OOC are completly separated from each other, at least to me.



1 tiny point. I'm SwissBarbAr , not a Barber. But almost everyone here made this mistake at least once. :whip:

[Iskander 3.1]

Hey, who doesn't want a balloon? :beam:

Sorry SwissBarbar. Every time I see your name I think of someone yodelling while giving a haircut. And don't worry, I never confuse IC with OOC. We're all friends in this sub-forum. ~:grouphug:

(And who knows, S.C. Scapulla may have need of new friends IC since things are going to get interesting with his comrades in Legio I...we'll see who he decides to turn to)

[SwissBarbar]

Every time I see your name I think of someone yodelling while giving a haircut.

:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: I can't get that picture out of my head, heeelp :laugh4: :laugh4:

[everyone]

1 tiny point. I'm SwissBarbAr , not a Barber. But almost everyone here made this mistake at least once. :whip:

nope, I have yet to make that mistake. :juggle2:

[Tiberius Claudius Marcellus]

As am I yet to make that mistake, though the mistake I make constantly is in calling you SwissBabar - like the French Elephant.

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

I swear, it seems like every time I leave all the important stuff happens, I am on almost constantly and its only after I leave that the reforms get posted....

and by the way how long do you have to govern a city to get the CP's?

[/Bean\]

Added every turn I guess

[Tiberius Claudius Marcellus]

As I read it, those are the CP's you get per Congressional session (12 turns)

And, seeing as how you can't govern two turns in a row, it will be a while for you to get enough.

[/Bean\]

Every 12 turns? No way, Mini. That's gotta change.

[The Celtic Viking]

It's per every 2 turns.


Governing
1CP per 2 turns for villages, towns, large towns
2CP per 2 turns for Cities, Large Cities
3CP per 2 turns for Huge Cities

[Tiberius Claudius Marcellus]

That sounds much better to me, I'm going to re-read it to see where I missed the "2" turns part

[/Bean\]

Phew...panic attack over.

[Tiberius Claudius Marcellus]

I read the Tribune of the Plebs part that states they only get their 18 CP's after their full term is over. I must have transposed that in my mind to be the way it was for all the ranks and governorships.

[navarro951]

You just want a balloon Iskander :laugh4:.

We can always do a trial session, and if the CP's are taking too long to get we can re-reform, since any ToP can propose them out of session now.

May I ask what ranks are going to who, as in converting from old ranks to new ranks?

I have my own way of dealing with this. Ill have to go through the whole games history and when I update the library you guys can see all your new promotions and what not...in the event a person would have to be demoted (i hope not) I will simply round a couple extra CPs up to put them where they should rightfully be. Anyway, in about two days you will see.

[/Bean\]

Time for legislation proposal has now ended. Voting will begin shortly in which there will be 48 hours time allotted to vote.

You always do that when I'm about to go to bed :laugh4:

[Potocello]

You always do that when I'm about to go to bed :laugh4:

Bed shmed who needs sleep anyway the CC is more important!! :whip:

[Tiberius Claudius Marcellus]

I'm quite serious with the need for a new vote thread - this is scandalous!

[Tolg]

What's wrong? Why do we need a new thread just to comply with all formalities? I can understand why it's bothering you IC, but why should it matter from a OOC point of view?

[Mooks]

I demand Licentia Proletair get voted on this congressional voting session.

[Tiberius Claudius Marcellus]

OOC, it's a problem for me because it's unsightly, it's nasty, it's lazy. There are so many missed votes that could occur - just look at how many edicts were missed being put into the poll! By re-doing it we will have a clear and concise record of everyone's votes as well as what each proposition stands for.

[SwissBarbar]

I demand Licentia Proletair get voted on this congressional voting session.

Formally your edict did not get enough seconds, but since you already have 4 members I propose we count them as "seconded" so you can have your house.

and...*humhum*.... in OOC we don't demand, we request ;-)

[/Bean\]

He can't have his house just because he has seconds. Thats what the vote is for.

I think we need to wait until the rank reforms are in place before we create houses.

[Tiberius Claudius Marcellus]

I agree with Bean on that one - there are so many changes coming into effect that none of us or many of us may be eligible to create houses.

Also, I demand satisfaction! *ducks* (Just for Swiss I'll request satisfaction re: my vote initiative; but it better be good satisfaction)

[The Celtic Viking]

Formally your edict did not get enough seconds, but since you already have 4 members I propose we count them as "seconded" so you can have your house.

and...*humhum*.... in OOC we don't demand, we request ;-)

I disagree. Having 4 (or any number) who would be members of a house != having an edict seconded. Since they didn't do it, we can't just pretend they did, so the edict shouldn't even go to voting.

Edit: by the way, on the subject of creating a new voting thread I kind of agree.

[Tiberius Claudius Marcellus]

:balloon2: for TCV for common sense re: voting thread

[Iskander 3.1]

With all due respect to Navarro, I agree about a new voting thread too.

(I'm always late for things that would get me balloons!)

[navarro951]

OOC, it's a problem for me because it's unsightly, it's nasty, it's lazy. There are so many missed votes that could occur - just look at how many edicts were missed being put into the poll! By re-doing it we will have a clear and concise record of everyone's votes as well as what each proposition stands for.

That is not something you will have to deal with. Thats my job to count the votes, not as a any character I will not miss one. And I am not going to let other edicts be allowed without seconds. 6.4 was allowed simply because I missed a seconding. That is all. I will count the votes same as always. And it does not matter, 6.4 appears unanimous anyway.


Formally your edict did not get enough seconds, but since you already have 4 members I propose we count them as "seconded" so you can have your house.

and...*humhum*.... in OOC we don't demand, we request ;-)


If it was not during the time of legislation proposal...its a no go. Rules are rules.

[The Celtic Viking]

With all due respect to Navarro, I agree about a new voting thread too.

(I'm always late for things that would get me balloons!)

Aww, you can have a cake for second place.

:cake:


That is not something you will have to deal with. Thats my job to count the votes, not as a any character I will not miss one. And I am not going to let other edicts be allowed without seconds. 6.4 was allowed simply because I missed a seconding. That is all. I will count the votes same as always. And it does not matter, 6.4 appears unanimous anyway.

But edict 6.5 got two seconds (me and TCM), so it should've been up for voting, and the whole thing was just a mess. We mean no disrespect towards you when we say this, of course (hey, everyone makes mistakes... and the rest of us aren't innocent either :grin:), it's just more proper that way. That's my 2 small ones.

[navarro951]

But edict 6.5 got two seconds (me and TCM), so it should've been up for voting, and the whole thing was just a mess. We mean no disrespect towards you when we say this, of course (hey, everyone makes mistakes... and the rest of us aren't innocent either :grin:), it's just more proper that way. That's my 2 small ones.

Okay well i hope you understand if we revote today, It means another 2 days delaying. Not to mention edict 6.5 i sorta useless. Cotta is a praetor, and therefore, probably wont be running for anything anyway. I dont understand the point.

[desert]

What about 6.5?

Both TCV and TCM seconded it!

[The Celtic Viking]

If that's true even if we only vote on edict 6.5 (which logically should be the case - it doesn't take that much more time to check 7 squares to warrant such a change), and there's no way to just make it "2 days or until everyone have voted", then it's unavoidable IMO. A valid edict that has received enough seconds must be put up for voting, regardless of how useless it may be. :shame:

[navarro951]

If that's true even if we only vote on edict 6.5 (which logically should be the case - it doesn't take that much more time to check 7 squares to warrant such a change), and there's no way to just make it "2 days or until everyone have voted", then it's unavoidable IMO. A valid edict that has received enough seconds must be put up for voting. :shame:

I suppose indeed I cant argue with that...Voting Closed till i get the new one up.

[The Celtic Viking]

Thank you. :bow:

[navarro951]

New poll up friends, my apologies.

[Tiberius Claudius Marcellus]

But edict 6.5 got two seconds (me and TCM), so it should've been up for voting, and the whole thing was just a mess. We mean no disrespect towards you when we say this, of course (hey, everyone makes mistakes... and the rest of us aren't innocent either :grin:), it's just more proper that way. That's my 2 small ones.

Thank you very much to all who supported the new voting referendum, and to navarro951 for all the hard work involved. Despite my having said that it is 'unsightly, nasty, and lazy', please know that that was not a direct statement of what I think of you. It was my personal opinion as to how I would want others to view anything that I had done and why I wanted the new vote thread.

TCV: everyone does indeed make mistakes, in fact, in recalling certain events in my life I stopped and thought about an occasion where I believed I had made one. However, upon closer introspection, I realized that I had not made a mistake at that time, thereby making my very first mistake by assuming I had ever actually made one in the first place. :laugh4:

[SwissBarbar]

Also, I demand satisfaction! *ducks* (Just for Swiss I'll request satisfaction re: my vote initiative; but it better be good satisfaction)

:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

EDIT: Uuuuh, I just saw that you did not support my Edict :whip: :whip: :whip: Imagine the laughter on my face melting down to a violent shock, a scarred-for-life-like expression of infuriation and revenge-seeking insanity



I disagree. Having 4 (or any number) who would be members of a house != having an edict seconded. Since they didn't do it, we can't just pretend they did, so the edict shouldn't even go to voting.

Edit: by the way, on the subject of creating a new voting thread I kind of agree.


That is not something you will have to deal with. Thats my job to count the votes, not as a any character I will not miss one. And I am not going to let other edicts be allowed without seconds. 6.4 was allowed simply because I missed a seconding. That is all. I will count the votes same as always. And it does not matter, 6.4 appears unanimous anyway.


If it was not during the time of legislation proposal...its a no go. Rules are rules.

okayokay, just was beeing friendly. I can't help it, I'm just such an amiable fellow. *sigh*

[The Celtic Viking]

TCV: everyone does indeed make mistakes, in fact, in recalling certain events in my life I stopped and thought about an occasion where I believed I had made one. However, upon closer introspection, I realized that I had not made a mistake at that time, thereby making my very first mistake by assuming I had ever actually made one in the first place. :laugh4:

Oh, how I know the feeling. I do that pretty much every single time I take a test in school. :embarassed:

[everyone]

I suppose the save is open now, now that the voting is over.

[The Celtic Viking]

Edict 6.2- Passes Unanimously


Edict 6.3- Passes Unanimously

Hey! I voted against those!


GM CA 6.2- Passes Unanimously

And tolg voted against that!

I demand a recount! :laugh4:

[/Bean\]

Oh for crying out quietly. I demand no more recounts!! :2thumbsup:

[/Bean\]

OOC: Since you left the Curia before saying it, I can't very well tell you this IC, but you can't do that. If you step down from commanding Legio II, everyone who wish to command it must have the chance to apply for it, since it's the senate who chooses the commander, not the previous one.

I step down, therefore the position automatically goes to the next highest ranking officer until a decision is made.

[everyone]

gah! I just realised the save is not open! the thread is still locked!
navarro, don't take the save until 24 hours from when you open it please. (just a reminder because you tend to forget that)

[The Celtic Viking]

I step down, therefore the position automatically goes to the next highest ranking officer until a decision is made.

That's not how you did it. You didn't put him under temporary command until someone is appointed, you simply tried to pass the command over to him.

Although Navarro may have to decide this, I disagree with what you say here anyway. The position remains vacant until someone is appointed. Avlvs Aemilivs hasn't been appointed as the commander, ergo he isn't the commander, ergo he can't move it around or order it to attack. If it is attacked where it is he can still fight the battle of course, but that's it.

[/Bean\]

I can't remain commander, I can't leave command...

[SwissBarbar]

Now it's getting ridiculous. We could say that Cotta became sick and rests in bed, as it's been done in Legio III.

Legio II is commanded to attack Ambrakia, so it cannot wait until it is attacked. The only Legatvs besides Cotta, who actually is Praetor, in the legion is Avlvs. Therefore it would be up to him anyway to lead the men, since it would be only logical that not some random dude took over the legion but the one that serverd 10 years in that army and knows it better than anyone else

[Tiberius Claudius Marcellus]

While the mechanics of a command change may officially be under scrutiny, all Bean has to do is say that he's unable to take the save and therefore his 2nd will automatically be allowed to do whatever it is that the legion is supposed to do.

Indeed, I did it when Potocello was gone for a week with the Third Legion.

[SwissBarbar]

Which is completely OK

[/Bean\]

Oh damn, what a patch of bad luck. My computer has been stolen!!! Those horrible computer-stealing-fiends!

I guess I am unable to take the save for a few days until I buy a new computer. I guess I will have to trust SwissBarbar to take the save for me and capture Ambrakia. Cotta can either observe the battle from afar, or stay in Epidmanos until Ambrakia is taken.

I feel so gutted.

[The Celtic Viking]

Now it's getting ridiculous. We could say that Cotta became sick and rests in bed, as it's been done in Legio III.

Legio II is commanded to attack Ambrakia, so it cannot wait until it is attacked. The only Legatvs besides Cotta, who actually is Praetor, in the legion is Avlvs. Therefore it would be up to him anyway to lead the men, since it would be only logical that not some random dude took over the legion but the one that serverd 10 years in that army and knows it better than anyone else

I have no problem with doing it that way or TCM's way for that matter(as long as it's a temporary thing ~;)), as Cotta remains the commander (at least on paper) of Legio II that way. I'm not opposing you commanding Legio II, I only want it to be done in a fair and correct way.


Oh damn, what a patch of bad luck. My computer has been stolen!!! Those horrible computer-stealing-fiends!

I guess I am unable to take the save for a few days until I buy a new computer. I guess I will have to trust SwissBarbar to take the save for me and capture Ambrakia. Cotta can either observe the battle from afar, or stay in Epidmanos until Ambrakia is taken.

I feel so gutted.

:laugh4:

[SwissBarbar]

I appreciate your attitude ;-)

[navarro951]

This really needs to be done IC. New rule states that once a legion has served 10 years it must return to a Italia settlement, receive a new commander, and then be set off on a different campaign if one is open.

Also, due to reforms, I will be rewriting most of the game rules, so in 2 days time or so Id appreciate it if everyone would reread the rules to be up to speed, thank you.

[Tiberius Claudius Marcellus]

Bean, when you *recover* your *stolen* *computer* - wait, computer is an actual thing, strike that last bit - empty your message box!

EDIT: Also, please update your SOT posts with new ranks and legion assignments (a PM to me would be really nice!) because I would like to edit the Phalerium to show these new changes.

[everyone]

Legio I Apulia: Orders are to establish a defensive position in Tolosa, retrain, and commision a new commander.

Legio II Latium: Orders are to capture the city of Ambrakia, wait to establish a garrison there, and return home (OOC: Any Italia province.) for an order of leave. After which, a change of command will be proclaimed.

Legio III Campania: Orders are to retrain, and await Consul Manivs Cicero's orders to invade Sicilia.

Consular Legio I Roma: Orders are to change command to Consul Manivs Cicero, retrain, and lead the fight into Sicilia.

Legio V Italia: Orders are to be trained, commissioned, be given a commander, and await further orders from the senate.

gah! I thought this would only apply after the next session?
anyway, this moving guys around and change of command seems to require a lot of time to march around. I'm thinking of something I should have proposed previously.

EDIT (because I just remembered something):
if navarro could confirm that "Any player can propose Rule Changes, regardless of IC rank at any given time"; I would like to propose this whenever possible (in spoilers first):
added to wherever the new ranks rule would be added to.
RC 1:
in the case of distances that would prevent the player from reaching their destination within 4 turns in-game, the "move_character" console command may be used to transport only the bodyguard (not army) of that player to his new appointment.

I wouldn't want something like LotR where you need to march around a lot just to get to your destination, for example the CoF need to be in Roma, after the session he choses a governorship in Asia Minor, or egypt, or Hispania ulterior

[navarro951]

One incredible battle report Swiss, reminds me of some of Beans older ones, good stuff :balloon2:.

[SwissBarbar]

thank you :2thumbsup:

[everyone]

hmmm...how am I supposed to go around recruiting Pedites extraordinarii?

I may wish to call an emergency session to tie up some loose ends in the recent session's CA's, unless navarro confirms that it wouldn't be too much of a trouble if we vote on RCs out of session.

here are the proposed RCs for all to see whether is the change/emergency session/voting needed:
RC1:
in the case of distances that would prevent the player from reaching their destination within 4 turns in-game after a congressional session, the "move_character" console command may be used to transport only the bodyguard (not army) of that player to his new appointment.

RC2:
in the case that specific units may not be recruited for a specific army due to distance or the lack of MICs, a substitute may be made (e.g. pedites replaced by triarii, or 2 hastati, etc); only upon confirmation with <somebody that requires confirmation with>

RC3:
the CoL may add units to whichever legions he please upon request of the legion's commander, but up to no more than 4 units. the units added shall remain with the legion until it is decommissioned on destroyed.

the 1st is to prevent something like LotR where you might spend the entire game (as one character did) marching around the campaign map to your destination.
the 2nd is because we can't recruit pedites extraordinarii as of now, and we can only recruit .
the 3rd is for Civil wars, like a house gets a member into the CoL position (similarly for the CoF which may build wherever and decide whether to build whatever he wishes). and don't worry about me being CoL, I'm not going to run for it for a long time. in fact, I wouldn't have ran for the position if I knew that Cicero would be sent to Sicily; because I already had plans in Tolosa; and having my name in all but one in the list of CoLs in the senate library is getting boring.

@ navarro: please reply to the most recent PM I sent you, thanks

[SwissBarbar]

According to the Recruitment viewer you should be able to recruit them in the 4 regions in central italy with a native MIC level 4

[everyone]

we don't have the MIC, neither do we have the money to upgrade it to that level
edit: what do you think of the other two? are they reasonable?

[Tolg]

RC 1 is unavoidable if we want to keep the game playable, I think it should apply to armies that have to return to Italy (after 9 years) as well, walking Legion 254 back from Bactria to Rome might be somewhat troublesome. ;) - Then again the 9 years rule shouldn't apply for legions in Bactria anyway.

The same goes for RC 2, though I think it should only be allowed to replace units with cheaper/weaker units of the same origin.

RC 3 is fine with me as well, but I'm somewhat worried that it might beat the purpose of the legion reforms...

[/Bean\]

You know the Romani problems with the move_character? Few characters who weren't there from the beginning will be able to move.

[/Bean\]

Oh, and can i start my PG in Ambrakia now?

[Tolg]

You know the Romani problems with the move_character?

Never heard of it. :huh2:

[everyone]

RC 1 is unavoidable if we want to keep the game playable, I think it should apply to armies that have to return to Italy (after 9 years) as well, walking Legion 254 back from Bactria to Rome might be somewhat troublesome. ;) - Then again the 9 years rule shouldn't apply for legions in Bactria anyway.

The same goes for RC 2, though I think it should only be allowed to replace units with cheaper/weaker units of the same origin.

RC 3 is fine with me as well, but I'm somewhat worried that it might beat the purpose of the legion reforms...
well the legion reforms means there would be a minimum of 10 units in a legion, so there would still be space; and now that I think of it, it may also mean that some legions may get unbalanced and stuff.


You know the Romani problems with the move_character? Few characters who weren't there from the beginning will be able to move.
I don't know whether would this idea work, because I've never tried it:
you know how when you merge one force into another force, the one that is stationary (not the one which is merged) remains the dominant one;
which is shown in this example:
you have part of Legio III led by Decimus Curius, its composition is: decimus Curius' bodyguard, 1 rorarii, 1 hastati, 1 principes; and another part led by Sextus Julius and its composition is (in order): Sextus Julius' bodyguard, 1 triarii, 1 equites. you move Decimus Curius' force into Sextus's.
the new force's composition would be in this order:
Sextus Julius, Decimus Curius, triarii, equites, rorarii, hastati, principes.
so in this case you could move_character sextus around without moving another guy also named sextus; and therefore you could also move Decimus Curius around.

so we could use a character as a 'host' (e.g. mine, since bean had no problem moving him when instructed by edict 5.something); then have the target character join his force, move_character the host to the destination, move the target character to the city; then move_character the host back to his original position, character_reset him if necessary.

[Tolg]

Isn't the general of an army always the most capable FM in the army? (Though I don't know by which means the RTW engine decides which one's more capable if they've got the same number of command stars)

Perhaps we could reserve one general for moving the other and make sure that he is better than all other generals by using the console to add traits? (Of course this general wouldn't be available as avatar)

[Mooks]

I got to hand it to everyone, your house standard (The front page picture) is pretty sexy.

[SwissBarbar]

move_character with romani FM really is a problem.

if you have a character named "Lvcivs Cornelivs Scipio Asina" you may move him with "Lvcivs Romanvs" ... but if there are more than 1 Fm called Lvcivs, only one can be moved. But actually we need only 1 FM to move the armies. We move the movabla Char to the army, transfer the units to his command and then move him back to italy with the cheat. I could do that, meanwhile I'm quite a master of changing the game (moving armies, giving cities (even capitals), creating untis etc.) for Roleplay-reasons with cheats and stuff :2thumbsup:

[everyone]

@ tolg:
probably, or one could temporarily give the host general a trait to boost their command and remove that trait once the move is done. the new general thing might not work because the general's name would probably be already used by another existing player-controlled character; so it needs a few tries.

@ mooks:
lol it's navarro's, there was initially a picture of a villa, but there was a car in the background so I removed the picture. then navarro placed the picture in his post. so I presumed he wanted it to be the house's picture, so I placed it there.

@ swissbarbar:
that's sort of what I meant.

[navarro951]

hmmm...how am I supposed to go around recruiting Pedites extraordinarii?

I may wish to call an emergency session to tie up some loose ends in the recent session's CA's, unless navarro confirms that it wouldn't be too much of a trouble if we vote on RCs out of session.

here are the proposed RCs for all to see whether is the change/emergency session/voting needed:
RC1:
in the case of distances that would prevent the player from reaching their destination within 4 turns in-game after a congressional session, the "move_character" console command may be used to transport only the bodyguard (not army) of that player to his new appointment.

RC2:
in the case that specific units may not be recruited for a specific army due to distance or the lack of MICs, a substitute may be made (e.g. pedites replaced by triarii, or 2 hastati, etc); only upon confirmation with <somebody that requires confirmation with>

RC3:
the CoL may add units to whichever legions he please upon request of the legion's commander, but up to no more than 4 units. the units added shall remain with the legion until it is decommissioned on destroyed.

the 1st is to prevent something like LotR where you might spend the entire game (as one character did) marching around the campaign map to your destination.
the 2nd is because we can't recruit pedites extraordinarii as of now, and we can only recruit .
the 3rd is for Civil wars, like a house gets a member into the CoL position (similarly for the CoF which may build wherever and decide whether to build whatever he wishes). and don't worry about me being CoL, I'm not going to run for it for a long time. in fact, I wouldn't have ran for the position if I knew that Cicero would be sent to Sicily; because I already had plans in Tolosa; and having my name in all but one in the list of CoLs in the senate library is getting boring.

@ navarro: please reply to the most recent PM I sent you, thanks

ON RC 1 I suppose im okay voting with it simply in a poll.

RC 2 is I feel the same.

RC 3 is not neccesary. Civil wars will be fought by families and houses personal legions, thats already in the rules and is handled only by the GM. As i say in the rules, I will NEVER say no to helping an opposing family get ready for their war as long as their funds provide it.

[SwissBarbar]

due to those funds, can families recruit units as they want, in addition to their house legion? can they create more than one house legion?

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

isnt it one legion per city? if a house has more than one city it can have more than one legion.

[navarro951]

due to those funds, can families recruit units as they want, in addition to their house legion? can they create more than one house legion?

It depends on the funds you have.


isnt it one legion per city? if a house has more than one city it can have more than one legion.

this also matters as well. its in the rules is you want to read a more exact sample.

[SwissBarbar]

4.6 House’ Legion/Families Legion

Civil war in Rome may be inevitable as senators are all vying for power here. So in order to not waste away the senate’s legions which the Republic needs to defend itself from foreign enemies, each house/family will be given a legion to call its own. <-- 1 Provincial Legions will be used strictly for defense while these personal legions can be used to defeat your political foes. <-- 2 All personal legions must be kept in a house/families provincial reign until they are involved in a civil war. No offensives on foreign enemies will be made unless it is requested, do not ask to have it put into combat.

In order to gain access to a legion such as this, you must gain cities. All Provincial Governings are granted to you by the Princeps/Senate. Once you have been granted one, you can use your house/families settlement to fund you personal legions. It works like so:

Each city grants a house/family an “invisible” amount of denarii’s. 1 city will give the house/family 1000 denarii’s a season. That’s 4000 denarii’s a year. During times of civil war, each city brings in 1500 a season. That’s 6000 a year. The amount of money a house/family has will be kept track of in a new thread called the Forum Trapezai. (The console cheat, add_money, will be used whenever the purchasing of units is done. So as far as the actual Republic goes, we will not gain nor lose any money as exact amounts per unit will be used. Ex: (Unit Costs: 1000, so only 1000 per one of those units will be added then immediately used.)

Each personal legion can be named however the house/family chooses. All units requested for recruitment will be dealt with by navarro951 through an IC pm so that no one has the power to say “no I won’t recruit them”. Navarro951 will not respond to the message, the recruitment will simply be carried out unless other business needs tending to.

Personal legions have a max of ten units. Each house/family may have 1 legion per city they own. The ten units can consist of any ten units they want.


1. Meaning 1 house = 1 legion
2. Meaning 1 house = more than 1 legion

Question: Am I right in assuming that the provincial legions of a houses provinces can be used in civil war, while the standard legions (like Legio II Latium) cannot be used, even if commanded by a member of a house? So there is ONE house-legion and SEVERAL personal legions of the several members of the house?

[navarro951]

1. Meaning 1 house = 1 legion
2. Meaning 1 house = more than 1 legion

Question: Am I right in assuming that the provincial legions of a houses provinces can be used in civil war, while the standard legions (like Legio II Latium) cannot be used, even if commanded by a member of a house? So there is ONE house-legion and SEVERAL personal legions of the several members of the house?

No their are several personal legions. Those are house legions/personal whatever you want to call them. The house decides which one of their members will command them. Provincial legions can be used in a civil war at your house/families own will. Standard legions are to be relinquished for the time being that its commander is involved in a civil war. The only time standard legions are used, is if one man gains the support of ALL, or the majority of, the legion commanders and takes over Rome to become dictator.

also: ill be taking the save at 1600 pacific due to work.

[/Bean\]

@ mooks:
lol it's navarro's, there was initially a picture of a villa, but there was a car in the background so I removed the picture. then navarro placed the picture in his post. so I presumed he wanted it to be the house's picture, so I placed it there.


Ehem, Mr Everyone? I think you will find that is my picture?

And move_character will work if we just stick Cicero or Blasio or Cotta in the army with move_character, move it, then detatch that character again and remove him back, just to clear things up.

[desert]

Can I make an anti-house house? And we'll be like, "All power to the Senate, not the houses!"

[navarro951]

Can I make an anti-house house? And we'll be like, "All power to the Senate, not the houses!"

wouldnt that entirely defeat the purpose..

[desert]

Fine, it wouldn't be a house but just an organization of like-minded senators. It wouldn't have any of the special priveleges or powers granted to houses.

Also, members of this group would want to enrich themselves through Rome's conquests.


Although on second thought...if a house rebels against the Senate, then its members are free to declare allegiance to either side, right?

[SwissBarbar]

Well, a house is not a contrary to the senate. It's just an organisation like a political party, which is a part of the governement.

That's like in America the Republicans would say "Hang the party, rule to the governement".


Makes no sense

[Iskander 3.1]

So I'm in charge of Legio I Apulia for the time being?

[navarro951]

So I'm in charge of Legio I Apulia for the time being?

Under whose orders?

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

if by in charge you mean you have to keep the soldiers in line while we wait for an untold amount of time in Tolosa. then yes you are in charge.:laugh4:

[navarro951]

I would like to let you all know i need a bit to take the save as ill be taking all the new pics and updating the library. I dont want any drastic changes b4 i end the save.

[Iskander 3.1]

I just noticed it on Everyone's SOT post. Right now it's just a provincial legion, so I'd only be fighting if a rebel army appeared.

@Drizzt: It's a dirty job keeping them in line, but somebody's gotta do it!

[Potocello]

who's getting control of the Legio V?

STUPID HISTORY PAPER!!! I may shoot myself if this work keeps up :wall: Although my paper is on the Roman Republic so i guess it's not all bad

[navarro951]

I just noticed it on Everyone's SOT post. Right now it's just a provincial legion, so I'd only be fighting if a rebel army appeared.

@Drizzt: It's a dirty job keeping them in line, but somebody's gotta do it!

Ah i see, well it is not really his call to make it a "prov.legion", he needs to recruit his own. Meaning he needs to decide if he will go infantry, cavalry, ranged, or mixed. I need to decide as well. It remains a Standard legion and yes you are in charge for now, as Legio I Roma is now his command.

ALSO, LET IT BE KNOWN AFTER I END THIS TURN, THE NEXT TURN WILL BE A 48 HOUR TURN, I WILL BE GOING THROUGH THE ENTIRE GAME HISTORY TO REWRITE RULES AS WELL AS DECIDE WHAT EACH PLAYERS CP POINTS WILL NOW BE AT. MY APOLOGIES BUT I THINK IN THE END IT WILL MAKE FOR A BETTER GAME!:smash:

[Potocello]

it will navarro, it will

[navarro951]

who's getting control of the Legio V?

STUPID HISTORY PAPER!!! I may shoot myself if this work keeps up :wall: Although my paper is on the Roman Republic so i guess it's not all bad

That is to be decided by seniority, as GM, it is my job to find that out, ill get back to you guys; most likely there will be a vote on it. I know Legio II should definitely got to Avlvs Mamercvs, Legio I and Legio V im not sure though.

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

I for one can assure you Sextvs will fight tooth and nail for command of Legio I if it comes down between Iskander and I, as we both joined about the same time there is no real seniority. plus he is stilled pissed at the whole wife thing.
so that fight or you can bring in another Legatvs from a diffrent legion, Sextvs will roll with that.

[Potocello]

okay well based on seniority, Drizzt and Sextvs shouldn't get it seeing as we still have Mooks and TCM who have been here for a looong time and have been Legatii for quite some time too. I think it would be only fair if we put the most senior players in command before we let the newer ones command.

sorry Drzzt and Iskander(???) :smash:

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

thats cool, I was leaning towards that anyway, seemed like the only way to avoid conflict.

[Iskander 3.1]

That's ok Potocello, I don't mind. I figured it would just be a temporary command. Sextus and Sextus are still acting like friends for now but sooner or later thing'll heat up.

@Drizzt: what's your character's wife's name?

[Potocello]

@Drizzt: what's your character's wife's name?

Ha ha ha, oh no

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

her name is Dionysia (even looks like a cheater, I mean so close to Dionysus, god of drunken revelry)

[Potocello]

Nice battle story Swiss. Those screenshots are rather reminiscent of your superb AAR.

[navarro951]

I will be totally inactive 2morrow as I will be swearing into the military.