The Godfather, Part 3 [Concluded] [Archive] - Page 4

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Sasaki Kojiro

02-13-2009, 06:20

Nice of you to join us, SEAMUS.

Really now? Because you voted for Ichigo when the lynch was down to Seamus and him.

Maybe the twist is that the detective is evil. lol.

GeneralHankerchief

02-13-2009, 06:22

This is awesome. Thanks for the burst of activity, guys, I really enjoy it. :yes:

LittleGrizzly

02-13-2009, 06:22

Did I ever mention im extremely dense when it comes to hints... if someone can figure it out and spell it out to me it would be much appreciated...

GH: No, no. Thank you for the game!

(this is the part were you are over awed by my politeness and drop me a few hints via pm ~;))

seireikhaan

02-13-2009, 06:23

Really now? Because you voted for Ichigo when the lynch was down to Seamus and him.

Maybe the twist is that the detective is evil. lol.
Here and there.

LittleGrizzly

02-13-2009, 06:25

Seamus is scum and you didn't vote him because your an evil detective...

GeneralHankerchief

02-13-2009, 06:25

(this is the part were you are over awed by my politeness and drop me a few hints via pm ~;))

As much as I enjoy monologuing, I'd prefer it if you guys stayed tortured until the very end.

Sasaki Kojiro

02-13-2009, 06:29

Seamus is scum and you didn't vote him because your an evil detective...

:laugh4: :laugh4:

This is fun.

khaan capitalized Evil unnecessarily in one of his posts, in reference to sharks with lasers which is a reference to Dr. Evil. This clearly indicates who is guilty.

seireikhaan

02-13-2009, 06:32

1- I never stated I had a role, and I'm unsure of why you would be trying to mislead others into thinking I actually had one, SASAKI.

2- Take from my posts what you will. However, anything I post is with full intent.

LittleGrizzly

02-13-2009, 06:52

Im going to stick with the bolded names... Sasaki and Seamus... the rest of the sentences are just confusing as hell...

ahh what the hell

Vote Sasaki

I don't even now what khaan's trying to tell me about him, but i have disliked the way he has lead the town to several lynches... and partially because im off soon and im not sure when the voting closes... if i have time ill come back to look again at the situation...

Beefy187

02-13-2009, 07:01

So far what I figured is Seireikhaan, Sasaki and Seamus has something in common..

Smack me in the head now... :smash:

naut

02-13-2009, 07:02

Vote: Seamus

Alright seirei, let's see if you're telling the truth.

Sasaki Kojiro

02-13-2009, 07:03

So far what I figured is Seireikhaan, Sasaki and Seamus has something in common..

We're all awesome?

White_eyes:D

02-13-2009, 07:04

I am lost:dizzy2:.....so what?....the detective(Khaan) was evil?:juggle2: anyway....I feel like Khaan is just screwing with us.....or is a scumbag trying to throw us off....(he is too good at his job:furious3:)

Beefy187

02-13-2009, 07:05

We're all awesome?

No... all of you has a s in your names..

White_eyes:D

02-13-2009, 07:09

No... all of you has a s in your names..

DON'T LISTEN TO KHAAN.......he is always Anti-town....even when he is town....:whip:
I never would trust him.....on "family guy mafia" his mind games alone helped Mafia win.....he even got an award for it....:furious3:

Beefy187

02-13-2009, 07:15

Sasaki is right on that part.. A is for awesome :clown:

I'm willing to listen to Khaan a little more.. I'm interested

Sasaki Kojiro

02-13-2009, 07:21

Gaius Scribonius Curio

02-13-2009, 07:58

Since none of the posts 'Khaan made on the days we're supposed to be looking at refernce Seamus or Sasaki, then I freely admit that I don't get the bolding. I'm also somewhat in agreement with Sasaki, if, with hints, noone can figure out what 'Khaan is trying to say, then how would a mafioso pick up on it and then eliminate him as a threat.

With the lyrics would the 'nothing ever changes' bit make sense to anyone with reference to the game (in particular previous iterations of 'The Godfather' series)?

glyphz

02-13-2009, 08:28

Tally:

Askthepizzaguy: 5 - TSzat, SK, Andres, RR, SF

TevashSzat: 2 - QJC, YLC

YLC: 1 - 777Ares777
Quintus.JC: 1 - Gaius Scribonius Curio
Reenk Roink: 1 - Chaotix27
Sasaki Kojiro: 1 - LittleGrizzly
Seamus Fermanagh: 1 - Psychonaut
For reference

A tough (mountain of posts to) 'climb' ahead...

Andres

02-13-2009, 09:36

I don't know what SEIREIKHAAN is up to :shrug:

Is he claiming detective who had a guilty result on Sasaki and Seamus ?

Or maybe the twist is that we had a serial killer and that it was 'khaan? He's acting weird enough to be roleplaying some sort of crazy psychopath :inquisitive:

Beefy187

02-13-2009, 09:57

Vote: Tevash

I think theres enough reasons to get Tevash lynched. While his not acting suspicious, I think he still falls in the category of lurking.

If Ignomorus does not come on by the next round, he will be getting my vote..

VOILA I GOT MY NAME BACK!! WOOT!

Askthepizzaguy

02-13-2009, 12:35

Askthepizzaguy: 5 - TSzat, SK, Andres, RR, SF

TevashSzat: 4 - QJC, YLC, Beefy, ATPG

YLC: 1 - 777Ares777
Quintus.JC: 1 - Gaius Scribonius Curio
Reenk Roink: 1 - Chaotix27
Sasaki Kojiro: 1 - LittleGrizzly
Seamus Fermanagh: 1 - Psychonaut

I would be derelict in my duties if I didn't offer you guys a choice. You can resolve the matter against me this round, or lynch one of my suspects.

I won't plead for my life. But don't let Tevash or Reenk off the hook if I am to be lynched this round.

Vote: TevashSzat

Because Reenk escaped this round, and Tevash is on my priority list.

Askthepizzaguy

02-13-2009, 12:38

Individual responses:

look posts 291# - 303 for ATPG worringly similiar behavior as to this game by the way, if you want to look.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=217758&page=16

oh and orgahs join some games at the twc, it be fun! :clown:

Oh absolutely I have done this before as mafia to intentionally mislead town. And by the way, it didn't fool anyone in that game, in fact DisgruntledGoat was going to have me killed but they decided to flip a coin.

I could say it's not worth it to try, but it is. However, Ares is right, he knows I did this as mafia before. I've also done it as a townie. My argument is no longer aimed at proving my innocence, and I will submit to being investigated or lynched, or if you're feeling bold, murder bait.

I have a bunch of people to respond to, and I don't want to have separate posts for each.

Askthepizzaguy, I admire the effort you put in these games, I really do. And don't let some mutterings otherwise stop you. Enjoy these games in your own way. :bow:

However, any systematic method of analysis in these games is self defeating and doomed to fail. If they sometimes produce right results, it is due to coincidence purely.
If you truly believe this, then never analyze anyone again. There is a huge streak of hypocrisy and illogic in that statement.

That said, I don't claim infallibility, and I could be wrong about you and Tevash.

TinCow, your criticism and then tacit support of some of Askthepizzaguy conclusions confuses me (and probably yourself too), as well as your odd insistence that you have been proven innocent as if innocence implies any sort of ability to analyze better... :rolleyes:

Silence: TinCow
Vote: Askthepizzaguy

I didn't see TinCow do anything of the sort. You're inventing reasons to criticize people. At least my criticisms are based on your actual behavior thusfar. Nice OMGUS vote, by the way. Nice try. We're both going down... shall we die together, Reenk?

LG willingly withdrawing his vote on me, due to town pressure plus the fact that everyone has seen that I'm town seems wierd. I wish someone investigate him. I find his behaviour increasingly strange and counter-productive.

I'm speculating, but I think he realizes the futility of continuing to go after you. And you're dead and thus proven innocent, as I predicted. And Lord Winter does seem like mafia now... otherwise mafia is taking a huge gamble. I am delighted by the idea of either scenario being the case.

:yes:

Really...wow......I can't say your mafia now....unless you really want to get carpel tunnel syndrome...

I did this before as mafia, and it is by no means proof. It's not meant to be. It's meant to give reasons to look at Reenk and Tevash, and possibly prompt our lurkers into more activity.

No and no. I don't see how you've proven yourself in any way. High activity levels don't mean you're innocent, nor do massive analysis posts. If you were mafia, your WALL OF TEXT is a great way to bludgeon people until they do what you want, because most people won't read it and you know it. It's easy to hide logical fallacies and errors when you post so much text that no one can even remember what you wrote.

You are absolutely correct. I merely meant that the odds are pretty high this strategy will result in my death. In fact, by my consent and yours, I'm due to die three lynches from now or sooner, due to the possibility of me being wrong. And I am totally fine with that. As such, perhaps investigations are wasted on me, as I will be dead anyway. Use them to find the other suspects.

You also have not been playing strange. You post an absurd amount, both in frequency and in quantity, in every single game I've been in with you. You also act like you are the ultimate town protector in the games I've played with you. This is the exact same thing you're doing here. So, no, you have not been acting strangely.

Perhaps my 'strangeness' is in relation to games I've been mafia in. I've never posted this much or aroused so much suspicion intentionally. That said, I am done defending myself, I am scheduled to die and I am fine with it.

Thank you for considering my opinions with an open mind. Sorry Andres for putting you through that.

Despite any criticism above, ATPG has made a very good analysis of in-game behavior. There is a lot of common sense in what he finds innocent and what he finds scummy. I'm personally not convinced at all on Ignoramus, who I personally find to be generally lazy at times and I think that's what's going on here. However, his points on Reenk Roink and TevashSzat are well-analyzed, well-argued, and consistent. TevashSzat also fits my mental profile for the person who wrote the N1 kill write-up and has since switched to plagiarism to cover their writing style.

I believe Ignoramus may in fact be totally himself, too. I was hoping the pressure would make him crack. He hasn't, and in fact he spoke to me in private briefly about his upcoming game and when I mentioned I was putting him "on trial" so to speak, he seemed very calm and indifferent. That proves nothing, but I believe he could be on our side. As long as he is lynched or investigated eventually, I don't care.

So, my advice to the town is to follow ATPG's lead for a little while. Lynch Reenk Roink and TevashSzat, probably in that order (as TevashSzat would likely be the grunt, not the Godfather, and thus he would be the lesser target). If the game is not over after both of those two are lynched, then lynch ATPG.

Good advice.

harsh? ...but fair I think. The beautiful thing about TinCow's proposal there is that ATPG can keep reparing holes in his SkyNet whether alive or lynched

Indeed. This is my preliminary analysis. As the game goes on and what errors I have made have been revealed, I will rethink the situation and re-analyze the remaining players.

This war is not over by any means.

Pizza:

You realize that, vis-a-vis this game, your discussion of your tool also provides clear evidence that you have been poring over the specific posts of previous games....which we know figures prominently in the writeups of each night phase. This too is food for thought.

Thank you for continuing to be critical of me and paying attention. However, when the game is over, we will know who stands where. And I would not rip off someone else's murders. i've never gotten a chance to write my own murders. Only as a host have I done so.

Frankly, it's too tempting a proposition to be able to write my own murders. When I am given that chance by a host, I will take it. And I would delight in leaving self-incriminating but inscrutable clues for town in my own posts if I did so. But the "if I were mafia" discussion here is distracting and unnecessary. I'm scheduled for death, so let's just proceed and focus on the other suspects. I don't mind talking about me, but I think we have done that plenty.

:bow:

I like the analysis although I think you mark off too many people as townie for convenience sake. There are several who I think are capable--even if they showed scummy behavior in the other games you analyzed--of appearing townie up to this point. I'm also very familiar with the "I have it all figured out" epiphany (and have a tradition of pm'ing GH my later-revealed-to-be-ridiculous suspicions :laugh4:), and it can often blind you to the truth.

Very, very true. My instinct against TinCow, and consequently, Andres, in Chicago, plus a prejudiced analysis of their behavior (which was defensive, to be sure... just for innocent reasons) led to a very very bad epiphany.

I would like to say however, I do not believe I have this all figured out. This analysis, exhaustive though it may be, is incomplete for one, and preliminary for another.

I am not through harassing the mafia yet. As the game goes on, they will have much difficulty hiding. I particularly like how they have only one kill so early. More time for us to find them.

:smash:

I wouldn't put reenk in the guilty pile. He could be mafia for sure, but he always plays the game his own way as town or as mafia. Setting himself up as "defender of beefy" fits right in. I don't object to his lynch but it's something to keep in mind.

I want to say that his style of play in this game seems different from his established townie style. From where I sit, he has far more absurd jokes, smiley face spam, self-incriminating behavior for no apparent reason, and just plain clownishness in other games. And he's been decisively ignoring me this entire game. I am a difficult man to ignore, and given how talkative he usually is, I wonder why we haven't chatted at all, nor has he commented on me, nor has he escaped from the clutches of the middle of the post count list, or as I call it, the non-lurking mafia's lair.

That said, he's too unpredictable for me to be sure I've nailed him, and I am not resting on my laurels.

Tevash was someone I was going to take a look at come daytime.

Ignoramus always lurks and has been WoG'd countless times.

Agreed, and agreed.

Oh, and shlin is someone I used to keep around to get lynched in the endgame when I was mafia :laugh4:

I'm pretty optimistic for this game, we have a huge number of lynch rounds if the mafia are indeed at one kill. Although something tells me none of the "suspects" will be killed anytime soon.

We shall see. I think I have some supporters, and if I am wrong, my death will be most justified for wasting your time. Thank you for giving me the benefit of the doubt.

Edit: I see I'm scheduled to be lynched sooner than expected. Fair enough. No benefit of doubt for the pizza man... ever!

LOL

I didn't get to Reenk's rebuttal nor Tevash's. I would like to hear what their alternative suspects are, perhaps I missed them. And frankly, since I don't KNOW you're guilty, it does me no good to bother debating with you. I made my case, you responded. Let's lynch and move on.

Askthepizzaguy

02-13-2009, 12:43

It's between myself and Tevash. Please do not stand on the sidelines.

Unless you were considering voting me, of course. :laugh4:

EDIT:
I wish to be clear about something.

Our work is by no means finished, and although I believe there is a strong chance at least one of my suspects are guilty, I also recognize that townies leave false signals.

We should not be complacent. I find it important to recognize that it is relatively easy to fool my detection net by keeping mistakes to a minimum. As such, many of those players with a relatively small post count and low-key strategy can easily slip through undetected. Investigation on such characters would seem to be in order.

Although I think I we a few good moves, the game is not over. And until it does, vigilance should be our watchword. Stay observant.

Andres

02-13-2009, 12:47

Hey ATPG. It's not necessary to post three times in a row; there's an "edit" button below each of your posts ~;)

:bow:

naut

02-13-2009, 12:54

Unvote: Seamus

Vote: TevashSzat

Sorry TevashSzat, but you are more worthy a lynch than ATPG. Plus, there's a chance that seirei is just confussing us/me.

Askthepizzaguy

02-13-2009, 12:58

I believe with a high degree of certainty that seireikhaan's innocence is proven completely due to the two mafia murders at the time.

I can recheck, but if I am wrong on that someone will tell me of course.

EDIT: Yes, here is the proof. There were two murders at the time.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2130087&postcount=351

Unless the mafia killed one of their own. Play the odds. It's a terrible move for the mafia to do, and Seireikhaan is NOT trying to influence the game to any great extent. Use Occam's razor.

Tally-

Askthepizzaguy: 5 - TSzat, SK, Andres, RR, SF
TevashSzat: 5 - QJC, YLC, Beefy, ATPG, Psychonaut

YLC: 1 - 777Ares777
Quintus.JC: 1 - Gaius Scribonius Curio
Reenk Roink: 1 - Chaotix27
Sasaki Kojiro: 1 - LittleGrizzly

I used glyphz' tally as a base, so I am going to double check this.

Double checked, it's accurate.

Tevash: 5 (QJC, post 702. YLC, post 713. Beefy, post 771, ATPG post 772, Psychonaut post 776)
ATPG: 5 (Tevash, 712. Sasaki Kojiro, post 714. Andres, post 719, Reenk Roink post 721, Seamus post 748)
YLC: 1 (Ares, post 715)
QJC: 1 (GSC post 724)
Reenk Roink: 1 (Chaotix, post 727)
Sasaki Kojiro: 1 (LittleGrizzly, post 759)

Askthepizzaguy

02-13-2009, 13:44

You made a fatal error, Reenk.

I don't care who dies this round, me or Tevash (though obviously I prefer Tevash) but I have proof that Reenk is just making stuff up as he goes. Read his words.

OK, so I'm going to be nice and somewhat validate all the work Askthepizzaguy did. :laugh4:

This will be very amusing.

I went back and actually looked at your long post instead of just going on skimming what other people said you said about me.

OK first of all I didn't make any grabs for Chief of Police at all, it was thrown on me.

You could have had your partners suggest you as a candidate to make it less suspicious. But this is unimportant.

I thought it would be funny if I could do the writeups but shlin wanted to be CoP badly and he actually had enough support behind it so I gave it to him. This is absolutely untrue.

There is no way to know for sure. But it does not matter. Read on.

The reason I defended Beefy is because I've always noticed he goes too early every single game and I know it gets frustrating. One guy I'm pulling for this game is Beefy to be sure. I'm pretty sure he's townie, but if he's Mafia, well, I'd still pull for him. :2thumbsup: :bow:

Beefy is a townie (I suspect) but the point is he only had a little heat on him and he's still alive. It's totally unnecessary for you to defend him, and as a townie, you would have no way of knowing if he's guilty or not. Even if you were an investigator, because it's NOT 100% in this game.

Point is, your defense of beefy is unwarranted, and scummy. But that's even less of a clue. Read on.

As for the rest, you either get suspicious of me because I made a joke or I didn't make a joke. :rolleyes4:

I am not suspicious of you when you joke, as it is par for the course. I suggest you are being more serious than usual for you. However, we can quibble over that all day. I have something much better on you, my little Reenky friend.

Do you want me to open my paraconsistent toolbox to deal with your reasoning now.

By all means. But be prepared for me to do the same, scumbag. :clown:

Vote: Askthepizzaguy

I'm just going to get rid of you because I don't want to be questioned or examined anymore. I don't think you're guilty (you may be) but I like to remove threats against me and keep people who aren't so opposed to what I do.

I also think that TinCow is absolutely some kind of non town thing, the way he said your case against me was good and such.

Bolded part one: Absolutely atrocious townie behavior. You should be ASHAMED of yourself for admitting this. You don't think I am guilty and you're voting for me?

part two: TinCow is absolutely innocent as has been proven by the fact that he was killed by the mafia.

This was the start of the "one murder" era of this game, but Lord Winter was the scumbag. Look how he's not participating anymore. You're a total scumbag for accusing TinCow. You are literally suggesting that the mafia murdered one of their own just so that TinCow could take control of the game.

You see conspiracies against you Reenk. Utterly absurd. Yes, me and TinCow are mafia and we are conspiring to destroy YOU personally. Paranoia does not become you.

I'll be dead this round or in the next. Seriously, though, you need to die.

Then he made some case about how he was a proven innocent and how that implied he didn't intend to mislead the town. Great kill Mafia, great kill.

Utter nonsense.

Town, when I am dead, lynch this guy. End him, and I will thank you. By the way, if I am mafia, I have an absurd number of partners both dead and alive, apparently.

Here's another "likely scumbag", because he has the courage to listen to me.

Sorry, Reenk, but this is possibly the worst reasoning I've ever seen you give for a serious vote. First: If you don't think ATPG is mafia, then who do you suspect? Surely you must have some opinion about who may be guilty, or who's acting scummy? You're a smart one, Reenk. You will have noticed if someone's acting differently. And if by chance you haven't, whatever happened to "Reenk Roink abstains courteously" when there is no clear suspect?

And yet, you choose not to voice any opinion, and instead vote for somebody who you don't believe is guilty, but just want to stop from helping the town by questioning and examining. Tell me, are we supposed to just stop examining you and look for other suspects, because you said you didn't like people opposing you? Do you think ATPG will stop using SkyNet on you just because he's been lynched?

And then there's the reasoning that TinCow must be scum, even though he was killed when both mafia were still alive, just because he decided to agree with the logical parts of ATPG's post.

Vote: Reenk Roink

I'm getting the same vibe from you that I had in The Prometheus, now. Give it a couple rounds, we'll have a detective reveal from you.DEFEND YOURSELF, REENK. For now you must certainly die. And by the way, here's another brilliancy:
Ok...

The only great thing is that the Mafia will probably kill Atpg (and maybe you) to make me look guilty, but it's good because they are actually doing me a favor (I can dodge the suspicion and ensure a victory for Beefy and I )

Right. So, let's count it up. Tincow was killed by the mafia, and he's mafia. I'm mafia, and the Godfather will somehow kill me even though he cannot kill anyone yet. Will the Godfather kill himself? You just hung yourself, Reenk.

Lynch him. For the love of God, lynch him. Tevash first, then Reenk. Then kill me all you like. I will revel in your death, Reenkmeister.

Apologies Andres, this is the last time I double post. I will be better about it but no one is here talking at the moment and I needed a fresh post to keep thoughts separate.

Edit:
I hereby request an extension. I think Reenk deserves to go this round, actually. But I will vote myself this round if you promise to lynch him tomorrow, or I will vote for myself tomorrow if you will lynch him today. Or lynch Tevash as I requested. I just want more time for everyone to decide.

CountArach

02-13-2009, 14:09

I can't help but feel ATPG is the wrong target here - his capping vote on LW is pretty much all the evidence that should be need for that. I would also disagree with going after Reenk - the posts that ATPG quoted on his guilt are an example of poor townie behaviour, but not out-and-out scumminess.

Csargo

02-13-2009, 14:19

Why Ignoramus still alive?

Askthepizzaguy

02-13-2009, 14:19

Grr... I actually have to go. I can't make good on the promise that I will vote myself today.

New offer:
Lynch Reenk today, and I will be here to vote myself tomorrow, and openly encourage everyone to lynch me. Or lynch Tevash, and I'll shut up for a whole day. How's that sound? You have AMPLE proof I am innocent, and you have my head as an offer of sacrifice, WHENEVER you wish to have it. Give me benefit of doubt for ONE ROUND. It WILL NOT AFFECT THE GAME except in a positive way. You've got me, I am dead at your discretion. Please listen to me.

That's all from the peanut gallery for today. I am spending V-day with my girlfriend, but I will be back. And if you do decide to lynch me, I will continue my efforts, and you can ignore me or not. As I said, it is OK to lynch me. But it's better to lynch mafia, and I will be dead whenever you wish it. You have nothing to lose.

Edit: @Ichigo
Ignoramus is lurking and will be lynched or investigated shortly, I am sure. For now, we do have bigger fish. You are proven innocent, if you're caught up on everything that's transpired, please do comment. And I know you don't trust me, but please read what I have to say with an open mind, and I know you will understand my point of view.

Csargo

02-13-2009, 14:24

Edit: @Ichigo
Ignoramus is lurking and will be lynched or investigated shortly, I am sure. For now, we do have bigger fish. You are proven innocent, if you're caught up on everything that's transpired, please do comment. And I know you don't trust me, but please read what I have to say with an open mind, and I know you will understand my point of view.

He should have already been lynched imo. I'm not sure why you guys haven't yet.

Askthepizzaguy

02-13-2009, 14:32

He lurks in most every game, and he has a 25/28 chance of being innocent.

Plus, as I mentioned, he can be lynched or investigated easily at any time. And since there's one kill, there are a LOT of game rounds left.

And apparently, even though I personally put the nail in Lord Winter's coffin, which has bought us a ONE MURDER PER ROUND either due to the fact that LW is mafia, or mafia are playing a gambit, and despite my exhaustive analysis:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2135068&postcount=675

I am still the biggest suspect in the minds of Andres, Sasaki, and Seamus, even though I cleared all 3 of them, indeed most of town, of suspicion, and even though Reenk's total scumminess or total lack of paying attention-ness has been proven by me. Between the two of us, which townie should objectively survive this round? Not Reenk. Tevash can die too as far as I am concerned, but I am even more sure of Reenk.

I'm letting my emotions show here. But Reenk's proposed defense is riddled with poor logic, paranoia, and blatant ignorance of the facts or intentional avoidance of them.

I don't have to do this, you know. It does not matter, I am going to die, guys. Whether it's this round or not makes no difference if I am scum. But if Reenk is scum, and we lynch him this round, that's a much better move. Do as you will... if you don't make the correct choice, I will be disappointed, but it still doesn't matter. Just promise me he's dead.

https://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q82/boomn4x4/Gifs/beating-a-dead-horse.gif

@everyone besides Ichigo
If I need to repeat myself, I will, but it shouldn't be necessary.

Hypothetical argument against me:
"He's defending himself, he must be scum! Total scum maneuver!"

No, it's not. If you read the content of what I have said, I've offered you my life and will not resist if you choose to lynch me. And if you blatantly ignore WHAT I am saying and only focusing on the fact that I am saying it, you're doing town a disservice and you're being lazy and irresponsible. Sorry, needed to be said. This isn't going to make me popular either, but I refuse to sacrifice logic to suck up to you.

:clown:

No hard feelings, and by the way, I am having delightful fun here. Don't mistake passion for anger.

Final thoughts:

If you do lynch me, could you make my death method "Beaten to death with Rubber Chickens"? Consider it my last living request. It will help soften the blow. Then we can continue.

Csargo

02-13-2009, 15:20

seireikhaan

02-13-2009, 16:06

I'm thinking it was a prank...if none of us can figure out what khaan was supposed to be hinting at in those posts even when we look over them carefully, how is the mafia supposed to have seen it? Consider also that the mafia killed tincow who isn't a trusted person either.
Ah, but I know for a fact that someone else already has figured it out. However, they seem hesitant to reveal this fact.

Also, in regards to the Pizzaman:
No offense, guys. But why are you being dumb? Just because Pizzaman can be exhaustive and horribly incorrect does not mean he is guilty. HE PUT THE LYNCHING VOTE ON LORD WINTER. Why would a mafioso willingly cut their number of kills down so early in the game, especially when Lord Winter still had a decent chance of survival. Pizzaguy could have easily voted Sasaki instead, but did not. Please, folks, USE YOUR HEADS.

GeneralHankerchief

02-13-2009, 16:43

Extension denied. :smash:

-edit- Okay, that was harsh. But I'm just following precedent. Consider Silver Rusher's reason to deny an extension in a certain round of Godfather 2 (I was lynched right after I claimed Detective):

Sorry, I'm not going to change the 24 hour voting time just because something has happened. Nobody who didn't vote will be killed, don't worry.

To be totally honest, I always wanted to pull that reasoning out. :laugh4:

naut

02-13-2009, 16:44

I'm rubbing my two brain-cells together seireikhaan:

Not this (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2127219&postcount=218), it's a joke and nothing more. I hope.

This (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2127396&postcount=235), well you make reference to write-up analysis. TinCow has been performing this analysis and ended up dead. Probably coincidence. I think here though your simply pointing out that write-up analysis isn't that useful.

This (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2127408&postcount=238) shows you have a good knowledge of previous games' write-ups. But, that would make you suspicious, thus it would be better for the mafia to keep you alive.

Maybe this is it. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2128433&postcount=302) Mayhap you regret voting Ichi, when the other target was better!?

Hmmm (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2128511&postcount=311). A veiled reference to lurkers. Seamus perhaps?

If it turns out to be really obvious I'm going to feel as thick as a ruddy brick.

TinCow

02-13-2009, 16:48

Andres

02-13-2009, 16:52

Ah, but I know for a fact that someone else already has figured it out. However, they seem hesitant to reveal this fact.

'khaan, please, just say what you have to say.

Yes, we don't have enough brain cells to see the mysterious wisdoms in your cryptic words.

Get over it and just say what you have to say in humanish :whip:

seireikhaan

02-13-2009, 17:22

'khaan, please, just say what you have to say.

Yes, we don't have enough brain cells to see the mysterious wisdoms in your cryptic words.

Get over it and just say what you have to say in humanish :whip:
Let me put this hypothetically, Andres(and I'm not meaning this in accusatory tone): What would it take for you to order my death on the second night if you were a mafioso?

shlin28

02-13-2009, 17:31

Because you are a detective and got a guilty result? and then told the MAFIA about it???

Edit: Or maybe the twist in this game is mafia recruitment.... you refused to join their side?

Apart from that, I got nothing for now.

White_eyes:D

02-13-2009, 17:31

Reenk Roink

02-13-2009, 17:41

Is it just me, or is Reenk Roink being unusually defensive about the pressure being put on him? I've only been in a couple games with him now, but in both of those he retained a relatively care-free and jovial attitude even when he was under the gun. This is the first time I've seen him launch into serious evidentiary counter-arguments to the accusations being placed against him. I would be grateful if some of those who know his play style better could comment on whether this is out of the ordinary.

Yeah I am, so? :inquisitive: Are you going to note this behavior change and then formulate a case that I am Mafia because of it... :rolleyes:

The accusations by Atpg are so bad and inconsistent (note how he didn't bother to reply to them though he loves to parse every post he can) that it is kinda fun to respond.

Again, you did say before that Atpg's case was well argued. well analyzed, and consistent, and those claims have been, well, savaged, so that is why I will get defensive against your posts. Not to mention that weird statement about innocence and not misleading

Anyway...

Atpg, you posted, but nothing of value. This is the only thing that new that I need to respond to (everything else is up there):

If you truly believe this, then never analyze anyone again. There is a huge streak of hypocrisy and illogic in that statement.

First there is nothing "illogic" about that statement at all. Again, please don't make accusations without actually supporting them (a pretty common occurrence in your recent posts).

Logic really has very little to do with this game. Many poor arguments are constructed on syntactical valid forms and many good arguments are invalid. The reasoning in these games is largely irrelevant anyway, the premises are the key.

As for hypocrisy, hey, I love to do it, you got a problem with it? :inquisitive:

But yes, there are huge problems with trying to analyze behavior and find Mafia. And even if you try to get away from an epistemic defense of this method (because that would be nearly impossible), it has very little pragmatic merit anyway. I've seen your Skynet (built on people following behavior types that are Mafia cliches: "changing behavior" and "lurking" and "3rd on bandwagon") fail miserably before, and it's failing horribly now.

Also, in many cases it is not hypocrisy. Sometimes I put on some facade of analysis so I can just vote for someone - annoying, but you have to please the mob to lay low and avoid their wrath.

Anyway Atpg, I win you lose, you're all but lynched, and I'm still alive! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCgFYz7VX74) :2thumbsup:

Chaotix

02-13-2009, 18:51

TinCow

02-13-2009, 18:52

Anyway Atpg, I win you lose, you're all but lynched, and I'm still alive! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCgFYz7VX74) :2thumbsup:

Exactly the point. Most people ignored ATPG's advice right off the bat and voted to lynch him. Despite his WALL OF TEXT, he hasn't accomplished much, and the accusations have never really stuck on you. I don't see why you keep acting so defensive when not only have you won the contest, you won it a long, long time ago.

Reenk Roink

02-13-2009, 19:00

Reenk: Just what exactly is so great about you staying alive, anyway?

You act as if ATPG is personally out to get you here, when really he's just following through with what SkyNet tells him. And then, it's not just ATPG either. Your last couple of posts have been absolutely full of scummy-sounding sentences that anyone would call you out on.

You also act as if your death will cause the loss of the game. The only thing you lose by being dead, if you do not have a role, is your vote. There is nothing saying you cannot post your wild sense of humor, or your suspicions against others (of which you have done remarkably little this game except against TinCow the very nearly proven innocent). You can even defend Beefy, still, if you truly believe he must be defended at this point in the game. Why, then, do you suggest it is so important to you that you remain alive?

I will not remove my vote from you. I see nothing significantly incriminating in either Tevash or ATPG, and I will remain uninvolved in deciding a lynch between them.

I don't think it's important for me to stay alive. Again Chaotix with the false attributions. :no: :shame: You may vote for me all you want. You have no case to do so however.

I really think that people who are criticizing me are probably Mafia using me as a scapegoat. We can indulge them for awhile though, we have the upper hand. :2thumbsup:

I find it funny how despite all of the energy Atpg has focused against me, his case has failed to persuade most, except you and TinCow and drawn suspicion on himself. I like Atpg, I encourage him to have fun in these games and do his thing, but I should also have my fun and criticize his system also, no? ~:grouphug:

And if you don't think it's not out to get me I advise you to re read his case, it is filled it caustic comments (unlike say Kommodus with a similar system who gave a fairly "objective" if you can call it that summary of my posting changes,) very unobjective - for Godsake SkyNet is HIS SYSTEM with HIS OPINIONS - of course he's doing what it tells him to do).

Sasaki Kojiro

02-13-2009, 19:48

ATPG, despite massive posting this round, did not respond to my lengthy attack on him and YLC, and did not respond to tevash's defense of himself.

Most of the people voting tevash have not given a detailed explanation and show no evidence of having read the accusation and defense in depth.

Apparently several people didn't read my post, because they keep mentioning that ATPG put the 4th vote on Lord Winter. Go read it, and look at the quotes from atpg where after failing to get votes on curio he waffles around considering going for sigurd. Lord winter was toast at the point ATPG put the vote on, he was already tied so it would have going to a run off, and I don't let up on suspects easy.

GeneralHankerchief

02-13-2009, 20:00

Voting closed.

GeneralHankerchief

02-13-2009, 20:25

Tie vote between Askthepizzaguy and Tevash. We're having a re-vote.

I'm probably not going to be around for the voting deadline tomorrow. As such, the re-vote could either be around 22 hours or it could be around 26. I won't be sure until tomorrow, so get those votes in sooner rather than later! :yes:

Day 5 tally:

Askthepizzaguy: 5 (TevashSzat, Sasaki Kojiro, Andres, Reenk Roink, Seamus Fermanagh)
TevashSzat: 5 (Quintus.JC, YLC, Beefy187, Askthepizzaguy, Psychonaut)
YLC: 1 (777Ares777)
Quintus.JC: 1 (Gaius Scribonius Curio)
Reenk Roink: 1 (Chaotix27)
Sasaki Kojiro: 1 (LittleGrizzly)

Abstained: 3 (shlin28, White_eyes:D, glyphz)
Didn't vote: 2 (taka, Ignoramus)

Sasaki Kojiro

02-13-2009, 20:36

TevashSzat

02-13-2009, 20:49

Okay, this is getting really really stupid here

FOS: Quintus.JC, YLC, Beefy187, Askthepizzaguy, Psychonaut

ATPG I love how you haven't answered my rebuttal AT ALL

I spent the time to go through your comments so shouldn't you?

Seriously, I REQUEST THAT EVERYONE WHO VOTES FOR ME ACTUALLY READS MY DEFENCE FIRST BEFORE JUMPING ONTO THE BANDWAGON

@Sasaki,

Thank you for actually reading over things

Jolt

02-13-2009, 20:50

LG willingly withdrawing his vote on me,

Vote ? I haven't withdrawn a vote...

due to town pressure

I can't see anything wrong with conforming to what the town wants to a certain degree...

this is what i said

My 'attack' on Jolt seems to have brought a little suspicion or just criticism for bad townie behaviour, if you really believe im being counter productive to the town with my focus on Jolt i am willing to step back from it,

Which seems fair enough to me, i had a bad feeling about a certain player but everyone else didn't see it as paticularly helpful so i was willing to step back from it... which certainly seems ok to me, or would it be better for the town not to work together...

plus the fact that everyone has seen that I'm town seems wierd.

There are no confirmed innocents in this game... due to the rules even the dead aren't 100% confirmed (though likely)

I wish someone investigate him.

I actively encourage it!

I find his behaviour increasingly strange and counter-productive.

I already covered the strange part... the counter productive part could be wrong though... many times the town will lynch the wrong player so not sticking to the one or two suspects available could actually be more productive...

which i basically said with my line about no viable suspects...

the other reason which i may not have mentioned was in my last game i had a bad feeling about boudica and made a vote to that effect as well.. but i just assumed my instincts were clicking at nothing... and when i found out my instincts had been right (for once!) i was annoyed at myself... think i mentioned that at the end of th game...

So because of this i decided to pay a bit more attention to my instincts... unfortunatly due to your death it seems my instinct was well off... and i guess i probably owe you an apology... sorry

You mentioned being offended earlier in the game when i mentioned your english... i apologise for this also!

I may be wrong but mafia i am not..!

Vote:Askthepizzaguy

This post (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2135592&postcount=714) explains my suspicions.

And, sorry to be harsh, but if you want to vote for tevash you really have to read his defense. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2135545&postcount=712)of himself first.

A summary: ATPG's accusations are bogus and filled with poor reasoning. If you read his megapost you'll see most of his arguments are things like "he is also DEAD CENTER in the posting frequency, a PERFECT place for mafia to hide". If you read my post you'll see why his vote for Lord Winter looks more scummy than towny.

Note that despite posting several times in succession before the deadline and pm'ing people pleading his innocent, ATPG completely ignored my accusation and tevash's defense. He doesn't have answers.

Apologies accepted. :P
I stretched out my arguments against you, thus making sure we both got cleared from any suspicion (Since I basically lost all suspicion, I was logically town and a target to be killed by the Mafia).

When I entered this thread, I had a feeling that I was gonna get killed. My applause to whoever wrote the kill post, it was a fun way to die. :P

Anyways, I think that the next Mafia hit will be LG. As far as a vote for lynch would go, I'd advise lynching ATPG. I think he is hiding behind his UBER WALL OF ADVICE to town, and he could very well be one of the Mafia (I wouldn't be surprised if he was the Godfather himself.)

seireikhaan

02-13-2009, 20:51

GeneralHankerchief

02-13-2009, 20:56

Just to clarify, this means that the slate is wiped clean and you can only vote for ATPG or Tevash.

Thermal

02-13-2009, 21:05

This vote is not good, i believe both are innocent :no:

From where im standing im not believing a word of the write ups, its so twisted with fact and fiction its hard to extract the truth and the nonsense, unless its the consistant parts, i.e : the nude uni cyclist and the constant baby eating theme :inquisitive:

Sasaki Kojiro

02-13-2009, 21:05

And to clarify: when Pizzaguy put his vote on Lord Winter, it was a tie between Lord Winter and Sasaki. Lord Winter was not even close to "as good as dead".

Yes he was. What were the votes on me? None of them were from people who were seriously suspicious. They were placeholder votes and votes to save beefy. One person had already switched from me to Lord Winter. Read my post. I had a good case on Lord Winter and he didn't have a good response. I don't let go of people. In any revote, Lord Winter would have been lynched. I'm telling you, ask yourself what the mafia partner of Lord Winter would do in that situation and you'll see that ATPG's fits it to a T. Try to make a case on someone else and when that fails, knowing that LW will be revealed as mafia, you have to get on board. And afterwards, when another candidate looks possible, waffle enough to give yourself an excuse for switching if you can.

Quintus.JC

02-13-2009, 21:05

Sorry but I've been busy and haven't red all the details of the posts...

All I'm saying is to give ATPG some chance and a little more time. His vote on Lord Winter is not a gurantee of his innocence, but it does place him on the innocent piles at least for now.

I am willing to give APTG 2 more days, if after these 2 days no clear result has been shown then we'll lynch him straight.

White_eyes:D

02-13-2009, 21:06

Vote:Askthepizzaguy

This post (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2135592&postcount=714) explains my suspicions.

And, sorry to be harsh, but if you want to vote for tevash you really have to read his defense. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2135545&postcount=712)of himself first.

A summary: ATPG's accusations are bogus and filled with poor reasoning. If you read his megapost you'll see most of his arguments are things like "he is also DEAD CENTER in the posting frequency, a PERFECT place for mafia to hide". If you read my post you'll see why his vote for Lord Winter looks more scummy than towny.

Note that despite posting several times in succession before the deadline and pm'ing people pleading his innocent, ATPG completely ignored my accusation and tevash's defense. He doesn't have answers.

he makes a good point anyone who played "The Promutheus" knows ATPG COULD and would throw people under the bus in order to win (as I have seen).....but anyone who trusts Sasaki....has had a quick funeral...:smash: but I also agree...SkyNet is flawed.....it targets, only posting patterns and ATPG's analysis of people (which is biased, everyone has a biased view) but I feel ATPG could be right...but if I had to vote....I really don't know which way to go.....trust Sasaki or trust ATPG?....that is the question:wall:....both give some pretty convincing arguments....:sweatdrop:

Reenk Roink

02-13-2009, 21:15

I REPEAT: ATPG PUT THE LYNCHING VOTE ON LORD WINTER. AFTER LORD WINTER'S LYNCHING, THERE HAS BEEN ONE LESS KILL PER NIGHT. PLEASE USE YOUR :daisy: BRAINS PEOPLE.

EDIT: Please don't take this the wrong way, Tevash. But Pizzaguy is as innocent as can be.

And to clarify: when Pizzaguy put his vote on Lord Winter, it was a tie between Lord Winter and Sasaki. Lord Winter was not even close to "as good as dead".

We are using our brains khaan. In fact, we are using them more than just going on the simple theory that since Atpg cast the deciding vote for a guy who is most likely Mafia he is innocent. Just an example I remember when Mafia cast deciding vote for Mafia: Seamus on me in Mafia V. Then there have been other games where the Mafia has voted against their own, so...

Now, I agree that Atpg is probably not Mafia, but then he very well may be an evil role. Especially with his insistence on trying to confound things with verbosity (much more than usual).

Even if he is not an evil role, he is being detrimental to the town in my opinion and must go.

Vote: Askthepizzaguy

seireikhaan

02-13-2009, 21:18

:no:

Unbelievable... How is it that these two excellent players cannot either understand basic math, or the distinct difference between maf voting maf in mid-to late game and mav voting maf on the third day...

seireikhaan

02-13-2009, 21:29

*sighs*

What a wasted round. Oh well, at least the town will hopefully start actual discussions in the coming rounds and focus on facts instead of pointless blibbering.

Sasaki Kojiro

02-13-2009, 21:34

seireikhaan

02-13-2009, 21:39

I've lynched my mafia buddies on day one and two khaan. Not on the org mind you, but I've certainly attacked them day 1 and 2 on the org and would have followed through if forced to.

Seriously khaan. Seamus put the deciding vote on reenk (and I believe it was the 2nd vote) when people trusted reenk's detective reveal. That was as crippling a blow as losing lord winter. And remember, losing a mafia buddy isn't a harsh blow if everyone believes you are innocent because you voted him! And I said yet again, lord winter was dead. Everytime I respond to you I prove my point--I'm tenacious and wouldn't have given up on him. Any mafia buddy of Lord Winters would have thought he was a goner. I've thought all was lost when my mafia team had the upper hand by a large margin.
Please correct me if I'm wrong- Seamus did so very, very late in the game. Am I wrong?

As for Lord Winter- HE WASN'T DEAD. IT WAS TIED. Math is math, and you can't argue that. He was on the block, no doubt. He very likely would have lasted a max of two more rounds. But guess what- that's two more kills for the mafia. Methinks you guys are lynching pizzaguy for being pizzaguy. No more, no less. And that is frankly ridiculous. To cast the lynching vote on Lord Winter is pointless for a mafioso- PARTICULARLY pizzaguy, who always seems to rankle the town regardless of what his role is. FURTHER- let's say that Pizzaguy IS a mafioso. Do you think he's the godfather?

Thermal

02-13-2009, 21:42

White_eyes:D

02-13-2009, 21:56

vote: Tevashszat

I'm willing to give ATPG the extra day he requested, and i'm not too keen on tevash demanding us to not vote for him :shrug: Also to even out a situation whether i wouldn't personally want either dead.

Well....after much thought, I am going with the "evil I don't know" over the "evil I do.." I am sorry ATPG but I know you will still post even after death....:shame: Vote:ATPG I also am a little pissed at Khaan for being so cryptic....:inquisitive:it got me and ATPG owned by Mafia the last time he listened to him....:whip:

Quintus.JC

02-13-2009, 22:04

Forgot to Vote: Tevash

I'm willing to give more time to ATPG.

Sasaki Kojiro

02-13-2009, 22:05

Please correct me if I'm wrong- Seamus did so very, very late in the game. Am I wrong?

Well, now we're at the point where your just skipping parts of my post. Seamus did so late in the game. I'm saying atpg did early in the game. It's been done 100's of times khaan. It's a common sense play. If mafia never lynched their buddy, then any mafia who did so would be proven innocent to the town. This is basic mafia logic. Sorry to be condescending but you've been *sighing* at the town all day so tough.

As for Lord Winter- HE WASN'T DEAD. IT WAS TIED. Math is math, and you can't argue that. He was on the block, no doubt. He very likely would have lasted a max of two more rounds.

He was gonna die. People thought he was guilty. People didn't think I was guilty. Mafia are paranoid. Add that up.

To cast the lynching vote on Lord Winter is pointless for a mafioso- PARTICULARLY pizzaguy, who always seems to rankle the town regardless of what his role is. FURTHER- let's say that Pizzaguy IS a mafioso. Do you think he's the godfather?

You've spent the last page arguing that he must be innocent, and now you say it was pointless for him to vote that way? He could be the godfather.

Ignoramus

02-13-2009, 22:25

Vote: Tevashszat.

ATPG is not mafia.

White_eyes:D

02-13-2009, 22:31

Vote: Tevashszat.

ATPG is not mafia.

funny you pop up now......:inquisitive:

seireikhaan

02-13-2009, 23:02

Well, now we're at the point where your just skipping parts of my post. Seamus did so late in the game. I'm saying atpg did early in the game. It's been done 100's of times khaan. It's a common sense play. If mafia never lynched their buddy, then any mafia who did so would be proven innocent to the town. This is basic mafia logic. Sorry to be condescending but you've been *sighing* at the town all day so tough.
100's? ORLY? This is NOT basic mafia logic so early, especially when so many kills hinge upon it. The mafia knows that their 2 kills will be halved. You don't put the sentencing on your own teammate so early. Too many missed kills.

He was gonna die. People thought he was guilty. People didn't think I was guilty. Mafia are paranoid. Add that up.
Now how can you say this? What makes you innocent and him guilty? How can you reasonably say, when you both had the same number of votes, that people only thought he was guilty and not you? Further, both you and Pizzaguy contributed to the demise of Lord Winter. By your own logic, what makes you not a scum trying to guide the town?

You've spent the last page arguing that he must be innocent, and now you say it was pointless for him to vote that way? He could be the godfather.
ATPG is not the Godfather. He's smarter than to put himself out as far as he has in this game if he was. Godfather lynched Insta-lose. Hence, Pizzaguy's behavior, although annoying at times, is distinctly non-godfather-ish.

I've lynched my mafia buddies on day one and two khaan. Not on the org mind you, but I've certainly attacked them day 1 and 2 on the org and would have followed through if forced to.
Well, gee, that's good, reliable information. You made a vote against a mafia-mate who wasn't in danger, but you would have kept it if they'd been in danger. Right. And its not even from a single .org game.

Seamus Fermanagh

02-13-2009, 23:06

Hmmmmm..

Seirei' makes a good point about the vote on Winter; a simpler and better defense in many ways than the lengthy discussions by Pizza himself. However, it should be cautionary that single kills only do NOT provide absolute confirmation that Winter was a mafioso. All it PROVES is that the mafia have only killed one person on each successive night.

Therefore, the implied premise of khaan's defense of Pizza -- We're down to one kill, so Winter was mafia, so Pizza would never cast the deciding vote against a mafioso so early in the game -- cannot be relied upon absolutely.

I believe that assuming the mafia would never vote for their own early is a bit chancy.

I believe that assuming the mafia won't shift to one kill for a long time is also chancy.

I believe that Ignoramus has a role of some sort -- his lurking is painfully minimalist.

I will not, at present, vote for either choice. So far, I am leaning to have Pizza lynched, but I am not fully decided.

TevashSzat

02-13-2009, 23:26

Vote: Tevashszat.

ATPG is not mafia.

Okay, seriously.

How the heck is this not just screaming scumminess here. He lurks all game and then pops up to vote only without any discussion. Because he does vote, GH won't WOG him and people never focuses on him.

Anyways, I just realized I needed to vote again so Vote:ATPG

Again, Double FOS: Quintus, Ares, Ignoramus Can any of you guys honestly say that ATPG has built a strong case against me? Seriously guys, I know I wrote alot but it doesn't take too long to read my defence.

People are voting for me simply because they think ATPG may not be scummy. Okay, then how the heck does his unscummy nature makes me instantly guilty? Free balloon to anyone who gives me a good answer on this.

Tally:

ATPG: 4 (Sasaki, Tevash, White_eyes, Reenk)

Tevash: 3 (Quintus, Ignoramus, Ares)

seireikhaan

02-13-2009, 23:28

People are voting for me simply because they think ATPG may not be scummy. Okay, then how the heck does his unscummy nature makes me instantly guilty? Free balloon to anyone who gives me a good answer on this.
Its the fact that he's almost certainly not the Godfather. I am unsure about you. Certainty over uncertainty.

TevashSzat

02-13-2009, 23:32

Its the fact that he's almost certainly not the Godfather. I am unsure about you. Certainty over uncertainty.

How can you say for certain that Lord Winter was scummy? If indeed the mafia started only doing 1 kills, wouldn't this have thrown everyone else off?

In fact, you are basically making the lynch of Lord Winter the basis upon which you are determining who is innocent. Are you that positive that LW is scummy and ATPG is innocent that you refuse to look at any other evidence that has been put out here?

That is exactly the mentality that any mafia would relish the town to have. In fact, this whole ATPG debacle probably has them squealing in glee at how he is probably going to use up at least 2 day lynches and give them that many more kills to reduce us townie numbers.

seireikhaan

02-13-2009, 23:33

How can you say for certain that Lord Winter was scummy? If indeed the mafia started only doing 1 kills, wouldn't this have thrown everyone else off?

In fact, you are basically making the lynch of Lord Winter the basis upon which you are determining who is innocent. Are you that positive that LW is scummy and ATPG is innocent that you refuse to look at any other evidence that has been put out here?

That is exactly the mentality that any mafia would relish the town to have. In fact, this whole ATPG debacle probably has them squealing in glee at how he is probably going to use up at least 2 day lynches and give them that many more kills to reduce us townie numbers.
Occam's Razor.

Edit: To clarify: IF the mafia had decided to stop killing 2 per night with LW, they are halving their kills from now on. The gesture if fruitless if they do not sustain it. Further, LW's highly agitated response is further indication he was mafia. Lastly, IF the mafia decided to cut their kills, they would only do so if they thought it would make someone look highly innocent. IF ANYONE, this would implicate Sasaki as, he was the one who pushed the hardest for LW's lynch. However, I find this implausible.

Reenk Roink

02-13-2009, 23:52

Look khaan, you are just ignoring the fact that even if Atpg isn't Mafia (which I agree is unlikely) he very well may be some other bad guy role. If he is not even that, he is still being a hindrance to the towns cause by making bad theories and posting a ton of material clouding the real Mafia.

Given that I am fairly confident that one of Seamus or YLC is Mafia, and that their numbers are most likely lowered anyway, I think we have to upper hand and should weed out those who will go on incorrect routes later on and just cause confusion (like Atpg).

Thermal

02-13-2009, 23:57

Anyways, I just realized I needed to vote again so Vote:ATPG

Again, Double FOS: Quintus, Ares, Ignoramus Can any of you guys honestly say that ATPG has built a strong case against me? Seriously guys, I know I wrote alot but it doesn't take too long to read my defence.

I don't have a case against you, i said i thought neither were guilt and im balancing the vote, being aggressive and defensive is only improving the chance your scum IMO, throwing around worthless FoS' won't do you any favors, as one of the two lynch targets your in no position to cast suspicion on us, it was you after all that was suspicious enough to get 5 votes in the first place.

Sasaki Kojiro

02-14-2009, 00:25

As for Lord Winter- HE WASN'T DEAD. IT WAS TIED. Math is math, and you can't argue that.

You know what? I reread, and lord winter wasn't tied. He was ahead. :smash:

Lord Winter: 3 - (Sasaki, White_eyes:D, YLC)
Sasaki Kojiro: 2 - ( Reenk Roink, TevashSzat)

I guess I got involved too much in the strategy talk. I'm still 100% correct on that but it's moot now.

Sorry. But your "Math is math" quote is cracking me up now :laugh4:

Beefy187

02-14-2009, 00:29

To be honest, I don't think either of you are acting any different to what you usually play like.

ATPG : Lots of talking

Tevash: Not so much

Give me a few minutes to decide my vote please

seireikhaan

02-14-2009, 00:36

1) I was using the tallies at the time- perhaps someone should have corrected them. :stare:

2) Fine, clearly nobody wants my help. :daisy: it. The town can figure it out on without me. Bye bye.

Sasaki Kojiro

02-14-2009, 00:37

Beefy187

02-14-2009, 00:45

Prevote: Ignomorus

Ok clearly you are avoiding WoG.. At least give a reason. Now im starting to feel sympathy to Tevash.

taka

02-14-2009, 02:06

vote: Tevashszat

i worked with ATPG before i think he's trustworthy for now

Beefy187

02-14-2009, 02:11

Vote: ATPG

I want to let ATPG and Tevash fight it out first. We don't need to rush this lynch

Thermal

02-14-2009, 02:23

There really is no solid evidence in fairness

vote: abstain

Unless GH disallows it, in which i will no vote so y'know....

GeneralHankerchief

02-14-2009, 02:29

Abstain is fine.

"No lynch" isn't though, but only for this round, since it wasn't one of the top vote-getters.

TevashSzat

02-14-2009, 02:50

vote: Tevashszat

i worked with ATPG before i think he's trustworthy for now

And.......out comes the second must lurkiest player in the game. Lets look at this: Both ignoramus and taka, the 2 guys lurking the most and contributing the least have all rallied to their buddy, ATPG....

FOS: taka My list of scummy people just grows longer and longer now.....

@Ares

I got 5 votes simply because everyone who voted for me really had no case against me at all. They simply bandwagoned on ATPG because he made a really long post.

@khaan

Well, Sasaki has figured it out now. Now, ATPG definately is not guilt free..... So people don't start claiming that ATPG has been cleared b/c he voted for Lord Winter the "oh definate scummy one now"

As for those who say I'm being scummy by being aggressive/defensive. I usually would care less if I get lynched if there is actually decent evidence against me and I don't have too much to say, but this time:

The analysis is shoddy. I have a pretty good rebuttal that the people who have voted against me still haven't commented on ONCE yet and I am pretty irked.

I really hope this doesn't ending up like Scourge of Espheseus (which, if people remember, I was unjustly accused and then promptly lynched thereafter. Meanwhile, the real mafia (Sigurd, boudica) went unnoticed for relatively the whole game)

Beefy187

02-14-2009, 03:33

I really hope this doesn't ending up like Scourge of Espheseus (which, if people remember, I was unjustly accused and then promptly lynched thereafter. Meanwhile, the real mafia (Sigurd, boudica) went unnoticed for relatively the whole game)

And Chicago :bow:

Eagerly waiting for your rebuttal. Now we have to wait for ATPG to get on..

naut

02-14-2009, 04:10

Vote: TevashSzat For the same reason as before.

Edit: I read your defence and it actually weakened any thoughts I had of not voting for you. You sound too desperate.

I got 5 votes simply because everyone who voted for me really had no case against me at all. They simply bandwagoned on ATPG because he made a really long post.
Wrong here. I did read ATPG's analysis. It has some holes in parts and regarding some of the more eccentric players yes. But, the simple players I'd say it was quite reasonable. But, you'd expect that. I voted you on the simple grounds that you are acting odd when there wasn't much pressure on you. ATPG was in the lead by a few votes, then you started acting incredibly defensive. A couple more votes, plus me to tie and you start acting desperate. Why?

Chaotix

02-14-2009, 04:36

Vote: Abstain

I don't think either of them are guilty, and I'm not going to choose between them right now. If possible, we should tie it up again and make it a no lynch.

I will, however, argue for ATPG's innocence. I will leave this comment here and see if people pick up on it.

ATPG must have known that making a post accusing a bunch of people and claiming others as innocent would get him a lot of attention, and quite possibly votes as well. That post of his was so huge, it probably took him a few hours to write it. Now, I'm not saying his post is logical or illogical; it has both mixed in there. But do you seriously think that ATPG would spend two or three hours crafting this huge post full of his own plausible-if-not-necessarily-correct theories, that he knew would probably get him lynched within a few days anyway, if he was mafia? That would be one :daisy: of a useless post there if he went and faked it all up.

Askthepizzaguy

02-14-2009, 04:37

Vote:Askthepizzaguy

This post (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2135592&postcount=714) explains my suspicions.

And, sorry to be harsh, but if you want to vote for tevash you really have to read his defense. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2135545&postcount=712)of himself first.

A summary: ATPG's accusations are bogus and filled with poor reasoning. If you read his megapost you'll see most of his arguments are things like "he is also DEAD CENTER in the posting frequency, a PERFECT place for mafia to hide". If you read my post you'll see why his vote for Lord Winter looks more scummy than towny.

Note that despite posting several times in succession before the deadline and pm'ing people pleading his innocent, ATPG completely ignored my accusation and tevash's defense. He doesn't have answers.

WILL YOU GIVE ME A MINUTE? I even said I hadn't gotten a chance to respond and I needed to leave, and I have precisely the response you're looking for. I was writing it when I was away.

Jeez. :whip: Sasaki... I mean dang fella.

Thank mother logic you guys are finally listening to me. I'd even abstain from voting here, but I need no further stunts to prove myself to you.

Put the nail in that coffin, die Tevash.

Vote: TevashSzat

And look at Reenk's scumminess. So patently obvious. He dies, then I will vote myself every round if you want.

Askthepizzaguy

02-14-2009, 04:49

Don't want to edit my vote post to add this. Double post again. :whip:

Here is further response to various individuals, hidden in spoilers as it's an EVIL WALL-O-TEXT!!! SPOOOOOOOOKY!!! SPOOOOOOOKY!!!! FEAR MY TEXT WALLZ!!!

@GSC, post 724-

"Since I don't trust ATPG's judgement fully, and don't believe him guilty at this stage, I'm going to Vote: Quintus Julius Cicero. You seem to easily accept everything ATPG claims as gospel. Not just this round but almost since the beginning of the game. Due to ATPG's verboseness it would seem to be a particularly easy way for a mafioso to stay beneath the notice of most of the town. Many of your posts tend to be fairly short votes in line with the latest ATPG theory. You have a number of games under your belt and are quite capable of deciding things for yourself and of making capable analysis without relying on another townie (or even mafioso) to do it for you. As such you have raised my suspicions. Its hardly damning I know but...."

:applause:

Hey, you don't have to blindly follow me. But I applaud your reasoning for voting QJC, it shows that you ARE looking for likely suspects and thinking about reasons why they might be guilty. That, coupled with your rock-solid, silky smooth defense of yourself earlier has totally convinced me of your innocence. Town, this man is not guilty. I am glad I gave up the case against you... it was a shot in the dark against you, based on instinct, but Lord Winter was rightly a suspect too, and there were objectively more reasons to vote him. Not to mention there was a tie that needed breaking.

I like how you're attacking people for what you characterize as blindly following. Very good. Very good. Followers and blind bandwagonners deserve to die eventually. I want independent minds in this kind of game, ones that will be persuaded more by evidence and logic than popularity contests. And I like to reward bold mafia behavior, so that they take more risks. Better for town that the mafia play risky, because whenever you gamble, you eventually lose.

As a townie, though, you have nothing to lose, so the risk is always worth it. That's the main psychological difference between a townie and a mafia.

@Beefy, 725:

"I find the fact that Ignomorus still lives on highly suspicious. Will he be WoGged soon GH?"

Leave him be for a few rounds. He does need to die, but not yet. Benefit of doubt on Ignoramus, 3 rounds.

@Chaotix, 727

"Geez, ATPG, talk about an insane wall of text! How long did it take you to write that, three hours or so? It took me an hour to read it and all the posts following it. I applaud you for your effort, and it looks like this analysis will be a lot of help to us for this game. For this game, at least, your usefulness and helpfulness have far outweighed the sometimes-annoying quantity of your posts."

It took me around two or three hours to do the skynet analysis and post comments while doing so. Then, it was actually a relatively simple matter to merge the 4 or so notepad documents I had been keeping open. Organizing that mess into something marginally ok to read was a nightmare and took me an hour I think when I got here.

It's worth it. Because I am not here for long stretches of time, I save the thread and review it while I am offline. Since I have no one to talk to, the only thing I can do is pore over the data and make observations. And, since I have plenty of time with no distractions, I don't need to rush anything, which helps if you're looking for actual strange behavior.

I don't mind the effort. That's half of the fun of mafia games, to me... solving the case on my own as best I can, then comparing notes with town, and being part of the social network is the other half. It's also exciting to see how it turns out.

I also want to see if I can up SkyNet's accuracy percentage. 1 out of 5 wins for town under my watch isn't good enough, I don't care if I correctly guessed more than half of the scumbags, usually a round too late; and then second-guessing myself didn't help either.

I am scared to see the results of the game. I don't want to look like a fool again, but dare I even hope I personally nailed two or three scumbags out of three in one game? I may joke about having an ego, and maybe I have a little bit of one, but even I do not think so highly of myself that I am confident about anything, especially after being humiliated by lurkers of all people and totally thwarted by false scumtells from fellow townies in chicago, and my own bad reactionary/retaliatory play.

@Psychonaut, post 728:

"I'd have to agree. Despite ATPG's analysis being helpful now everyone is focused on it and the maf can hide while we bicker among our selves."

Should they do this, I will know. :mellow:
Town, make sure you don't lurk or hide. SkyNet cannot analyze nonexistent posts. Mafia will have to post more if you do, too.

"Three important things from the write-ups. The kill mentions grizzly bears, so the mafia have been paying attention to the banter between Jolt and LG. Second, the nude unicyclist "observes everything", perhaps a reference to a detective. Third, the boombox guy has no care in the world, maybe immune to something?"

I think the writeups have been falsely mentioning townies for a while now, but it is easy as heck for the mafia to slip themselves in to that list now that we aren't really paying close attention to it as a potential clue.

They mentioned pizza delivery in a recent one. I didn't even bother with the WIFOM implications, because I'm roast pizzaguy at this point anyway, and it's absurd, just like the one against Grizzly.

Of more interest is the nude unicyclist and the boombox guy, but to be honest, there is one kill per night, indicating to me that there's no serial killer, 3 mafia, one might be dead, a detective, and that's everyone who is important. GH himself said the game ends when the Godfather dies, so to me it's that not important who these people are.

However, if anyone has plausible theories, I am listening.

@Psychonaut post 731:

"Tevash. I'm unsure. I don't feel he's overly scummy. He is being a bit defensive, but he's not doing any of the other key mafia tells."

Precisely. You know, he's been in enough games and he's not a dumb person, in my view... he could, with careful play, avoid acting scummy altogether. From my analysis, that's his entire strategy for this game. I think he's scum, but maybe he has a role, it's also possible.

I'd be willing to let him live another couple rounds if he claimed to have a valuable role, as long as we lynched him then. Besides, if he did so, he'd make perfect murderbait.

@Seireikhaan, 733

"Does the town really need me to SPELL OUT EVERYTHING for it? I can't believe nobody has noticed it..."

We are all stumped. Either give us more clues or discuss something else in a more... comprehensible manner. Please. I believe you're proven innocent, and I highly value your opinion, but frankly I am baffled as to what it even is.

@Psychonaut, 735

""held up by a pizza delivery car" a veiled reference perhaps? Or deliberately misleading?"

:brood:

I've done plenty of WIFOM already in this game, I don't need to do more. And since I will die soon it's a moot point. Let's focus on clues that didn't come directly from the mouth of the lying scumbags as intentional WIFOM or attempts at framing me.

Humble suggestion is all. :bow:

@TinCow, post 745

I don't even listen to music on a regular basis. I would never have been able to do an analysis such as this. I am glad I'm not alone, because there are some types of clues I cannot decypher. Thank you for the attempt at decyphering the song clues.

@Sasaki, post 757

"khaan capitalized Evil unnecessarily in one of his posts, in reference to sharks with lasers which is a reference to Dr. Evil. This clearly indicates who is guilty."

Who?

And I'm glad you're paying attention, because I didn't see that one as a valuable clue... thanks for catching what falls through the cracks of my ability to analyze.

@Sasaki, post 762-

"We're all awesome?"

Indeed you are. I bow to the three of you. You're nearly as good as me.

:clown:

@glyphz, 769-

"For reference. A tough (mountain of posts to) 'climb' ahead..."

I still think you're innocent, but can I nudge you to contribute a little bit more? You're making me nervous.

And I missed a huge post by Sasaki. I am doing him a dishonor by ignoring it. Here we go:

@Sasaki, post 714:

"Ok, there's some points I think I could explain more fully: First: Why would ATPG and/or YLC vote to lynch there own partner? Well, I have a reputation for being tenacious and good at convincing people, and I was going after Lord Winter pretty hard. Lord Winter was not successfully defending himself. When you're mafia, the fact that you know your partners are guilty always colors your perception of the game. There are many times I've been very anxious over a post one of my partners made that I thought would give them away only to have it ignored. So by that view, it's quite possible that LW's partners pessimistically considered him as good as dead. "

That's very provocative and insightful. Thank you for sharing your mafia theory with me. I have much to learn from master Sasaki... maybe I can teach you of my ways as well, if you're willing.

"Second: YLC's behavior yesterday. I described this poorly in my last post. I meant to get at the disconnect between his first post after the accusation, and the rest of his posts."

Yeah... I get it. YLC's behavior when looked at on the surface seems to be misleading, scummy, confusing, irrational, illogical, and bad townie behavior. Absolutely. Absolutely.

And YLC has been mafia how many times? We have no read on his behavior as a mafioso, because he's never been one. And in this game, where people pick their partners, YLC would not be chosen in my estimation, because he's on everyone's scumdar all the time. And you have to admit, if he's a mafia after all this, he's got some cojones on him.

I am thinking about grapefruits for some unexplained reason. Must be a totally random thought. Must be.

Give YLC the benefit of the doubt for a couple rounds, then go hog wild on him for all I care. Occam's razor suggests he's a townie or a ballsy, ballsy mafia who WILL die soon for his trouble.

Dare I question the mighty Sasaki Kojiro? I dare.

"Third: ATPG's case on Curio. 8 posts, several of them very long. He persistently questions Curio and accuses him of hiding. I don't think I'll get into the meat of ATPG's accusation but it is poor logic--thought not as bad as his case on shlin. After all that, he switches to Lord Winter with this post:"

Yeah, forgive me Sasaki, but you're dropping the ball here. Why is it scummy for me to question Curio? And because the case was bad, and Curio answered my questions, I dropped it. That said, I am not going to punish you for questioning me, even if I disagree with your assumptions here. Just please consider my opinions with an equally open mind. Thanks!

In short, your case against me is poor. But a worthy try, so... put that stuff to good use on someone else. You know I'm a dead man walking, so... who else?

"Fourth: ATPG current suspects."

3 people who had no heat on them. That's better than say, Tevash, who has no new suspects, lurks, and bandwagons. But thanks for suspecting me so much and him so little.

:smartass: :grin:

I am truly having fun now. For me to nail Sasaki on poor reasoning, that's an utter joy.

"Ignoramus always lurks and is usually WoG. Not a "soon" lynch in my book."

Agreed. But you know, it was worth a try to put pressure on him. And like you, I've determined he deserves more time.

"(about Reenk) This is his summary, and it has problems of its own--no one cares about being CoP and there are plenty of veteran players to recruit--but look at the full case for more fun, here's some snippets:"

Perhaps you don't care about being CoP, but I would personally campaign for it as a scumbag. Definitley. Shlin hasn't been really considered as a suspect and he's contributing not much to our efforts. He's being overlooked precisely because he's the CoP. I'd jump on that in a heartbeat, because I play ballsy gambits, and it usually gets me dead, but mafia games are about having fun as much as winning. So there. And if the detective dies... how could you clear the CoP as a suspect? Only through lynching.

There are plenty of Vets to recruit, but which ones are choice candidates?

1. Players who win games
2. Players who haven't recently won a game, like yesterday
3. Players who survive a long time no matter their role
4. Brilliant players
5. Inscrutable players

Reenk meets all 5 categories to an insane extent. As such, he is a worthy candidate. Resist it all you want, but it's a fact.

"My reaction to this is: what?? Seriously. I wouldn't say reenk is innocent but this is what he plays like, and these reasons of atpg's are nonsense. On Tevash, this seems to be the meat of atpg's accusation:"

You're being too dismissive of me. Disagree if you wish, but I don't think you're giving me a fair shake. I ask you to reconsider, just for a moment, your judgment on me. Humor me.

This is what Reenk plays like as scum or town, and those reasons against him aren't to be just dismissed as nonsense. You didn't even explain why, or cite reasons why it's a bad case. Just writing me off like that actually triggers my scum indicator, but I refuse to threaten you for being hostile to my point of view.

Should you survive to the end and we haven't won, I'll reconsider you as a suspect. (Hopefully mafia will pick up on this and leave you alive. In spite of your bad analysis of me, you are a legend and I want you alive to vote. I think I can persuade you, especially past my own death.

"In the middle of the list--null tell. And how is tevash's perfectly legitimate point about the writeup analysis scummy? He's right if you ask me, the writeup analysis is just wifom. You can hardly attack tevash for not going after mafia hard and fast when hardly anyone in the game has."

I disagree about the middle of the list thing. Mafia do not often end up at the very top or very bottom. Guess what? In Blackadder, I ended up near the middle of the activity chart, and I'm always at the top. I was mafia. I can't be sure, but I think I wasn't the top poster in Prometheus either, especially post-mortem. I always am as a townie.

..Wow, I just totally destroyed my ability to ever escape from the top of the list ever again. :shame:

I am willing to destroy my chances as a scumbag in future games. I need more townie wins, and I have a 3 game streak (going on 4, with Jubal's mafia) as mafia, so I can handle a little more of a challenge.

"Reposting my original case on YLC:

If we do make the assumption that Lord Winter was mafia (which I would be inclined to believe), then a couple people start to look scummy. First is YLC."

Ok. well, you voted for Lord Winter, the scumbag. So did I. so did YLC. so did White Eyes.
Now put on your thinking cap again; (humor me)

If
Lord Winter = Mafia
Askthepizzaguy = Mafia
YLC = Mafia
Then
Askthepizzaguy + YLC kill mafia buddy Lord Winter
Then
Askthepizzaguy + YLC both annoy, distract, and otherwise pester town until we are both prime suspects.
Then
I offer you my head, and say go ahead and lynch YLC.

You must think "mine" and "his" are the size of Mercury. So I thank you for the compliment, but I'm more subtle and clever when I am mafia, not incredibly dumb and suicidal. So, dead wrong on me. Can't say about YLC, lynch him if you wish, I won't stop you. I just think he's proven himself as a townie by sacrificing himself in an unpopular way. You seriously underestimate YLC. Someday, it will bite you guys in the butt.

Admit it. He's either helping, or he's a very worthy mafioso. Either way, you admit he is talented. So, small victory for you YLC in this game. You get a medal or something when this is over, from me.

"In summary I don't think either of these two can be considered trustworthy--they both need to be lynched imo.

Vote:Askthepizzaguy"

I hold no grudges. Sasaki, I still think you're townie, just misguided.

Sasaki and misguided in the same sentence... my world no longer makes sense.
:clown:
Just playing with you Sasaki.

@Shlin-

"Hmm... ATPG and YLC are totally scum in my august opinion (note: I accused them yesterday, but ATPG's response just made my suspicion a lot lot worse)
His case against me is just ludicrous, and from his reasonings ANYONE who tried to become the CoP would be scummy as only Godfathers would do that... yeah right...
I also think his "SkyNet", although a worthy piece of work, is not a standard piece of post analysis machine that Holmes was (post count/post length is a lot better than opinions on their posts, more mechanical that way and less tinged by personal opinions.) so I would not trust it as much as Holmes. Lynch ATPG and YLC my fellow citizens!"

If that's the best you have to offer, Shlin, and you don't give better suspects soon, my opinion of your skills as town or mafia will have diminished. And you're registering higher on the scumdar with each post. Fair warning, my friend.

To be fair, my specific criticism of you is that you're defensive, quick to judge me, you're dismissive and sarcastic. What are you hiding? You have every right to criticize me, and disagree. I just think you made a poor case against me, gave a scummy defense, and have been disastrously wrong so far. Plus you got support from people I consider scum. No proof, just interesting.

You're not doing a good job as Police Chief. I recommend you be lynched before the game is over. You're mostly just joking around, and your analysis is lacking, and your suspects are easy marks. You're not putting forth effort, and that galls me to no end, buddy.

@LittleGrizzly, post 718

Jolt is confirmed innocent now, so leave him be, and kudos for actively encouraging an investigation on yourself. You once again haven't mislead the town down the garden path, and your hands are clean.

@Andres, post 719

"I for one don't believe the mafia will voluntarily drop back to one kill a night for two subsequent nights in a row this early in the game.

Yes, it can be a trick, but making your kills count, narrows down the odds of getting lynched by the townies who, in most games, act unpredicatable. Many mafiosi felt comfortable in the past, thinking they did very well getting no attention and eventually got lynched in the last rounds.

Following that, Lord Winter was very likely scum.

Sasaki is spot on about it being suspicious how ATPG all of the sudden changed his mind and voted Lord Winter.

Even if Lord Winter wasn't scum, it is still rather suspicious.

Also note that in the post in which he voted Lord Winter, he also said he would go after GSC the next round. Instead of doing that, he suggests that we lynch Reenk Roink, Tevashzat and shlin28 in the next three rounds.

In a way, assuming ATPG is scum, this puts GSC in a bad daylight as well. Was he just ATPG's scapegoat or was it a tactic to create distance between him and his mafia buddy?

Vote : Askthepizzaguy

Fos : GSC"

You consider Lord Winter scum, and readily acknowledge I am most responsible for his death. Then you consider I am scum, after my totally suicidal behavior. Right. I'd just hand the game to you guys as a mafia. Uh huh. Sorry Andres, rethink your case. After I am dead, and the game is over, I think you owe ME an apology, as I once owed you.

Gentlemen do that for one another, so I'm looking forward to it. That said, you meet all my criteria for town and I will willingly hand you the game for a while if you're mafia, out of respect for your skill in avoiding SkyNet detection.

I will only consider you as a suspect for the final lynch, and even then, I'd be hard pressed to do so.

@LittleGrizzly, post 720

"ATPG.. my main reason to suspect him is because he try's so damn hard to look innocent, again its a risky strategy but he has shown a few times he is willing to die trying to prove his innocence as a townie... though he could have been building up to this mafia game and over the last few games gave himself the perfect cover"

Stop thinking like this. I try to win every game. I have given you my EVERYTHING as a townie in every game I've been in. This is no gambit. Stop it guys. Use Occam's razor BEFORE you leap to this unlikely and very, very erroneous conclusion. That's poor townie reasoning.

Sorry, I need to :whip: my troops when they misbehave. Tis my prerogative as the self-appointed "Ultimate Town Protector", to quote a Cow made from some kind of shiny metal. (post 690)

@Chaotix, 727-

"Do you think ATPG will stop using SkyNet on you just because he's been lynched?"

I think I am going to sig this line for a while. You have so deliciously and potently worded how futile it is to lynch me as mafia for any reason besides removing my voting ability.

Gaius, Beefy, Chaotix, Rythmic, Seireikhaan, Glyphz, Sasaki, LittleGrizzly, Andres, TinCow, Shlin, "you've got mail", in this post. I find this method much less cluttery and definitley adding to the discussion in a less-annoying-to-everyone-besides-the-moderators way. But Andres needs to read this one anyway, so I feel not ashamed.

More, I have other stuff I forgot to add:

@Seamus

Vote: Pizza. You twigged my radar at first because of the historic kills -- and I know you've back researched threads. By itself, not enough.

Incorrect analysis. It's well known I did a lot of research, but it takes no research to pull random deaths from old games.

The stunt with YLC was annoying, but not enough.

:shrug:
The fact that we both made ourselves top suspects doesn't strike you as odd if we're working together to make town suffer and die? Very well. I'm bold and creative, but I'll be damned if people think I am stupid. That's a stupid move. But, I can't prove my innocence, nor will I try any longer.

Seeing my commentary on post counts and then going berzerk with posts was almost too calculating. Sasaki's points contribute. None enough in themselves, but taken together it has my vote.

Incorrect analysis. I go "berserk" with posts in every game. I just happened to log in after that post, something which would have happened eventually. You're reading too much into nothing.

That said, I still believe you're a townie and that you're trying to help. I really wish you'd consider the obvious townie tells I keep indicating, lord winter's death and the consistent one-murders, the fact I've offered to die in subsequent rounds with my blessing, my ridiculously long winded analysis and my intentional attempts to bait people into talking, at the risk of my own life.

Ignore those at your peril, but when I die and the game continues, please listen to me.
Response/Rebuttal to TevashSzat post 712. You deserve a response, given the time you took to respond to me.

"Okay......it was pretty obvious that the CoP round was more or less not that serious with the Tincow eating babies and things like that. If you remember, I voted for shlin when he was the underdog and honestly had no idea everyone would all then suddenly bandwagon on shlin..... From your perception, the CoP would almost definately be scummy since people had to vote for him right? Of course, the other guy who would've possibly been CoP was Reenk so your "scummy" people would be fufilled after all......"

Very well. It's entirely possible I am mistaken about that. But I was commenting on how your behavior may not have been random. That's something you feel you need to defend against, by all means do so.

"Well, just pointing things out there since mafia usually rarely writes the writeups and noone had mentioned it before. It didn't lead us down any particularly useful avenues as usual but at least someone should've looked at them"

Why didn't you? Why sit back and send other townies on a wild goose chase when you yourself are not prepared to bother?

"Okay....let me get this straight. I'm scummy because I am actually trying to contribute? With that reasoning, you must the mafia given the huge wall of text you have provided for us. As for destroying arguments, again How is it bad to destroy BAD arguments before they're put into discussion and waste townie time? You can't say that my comments were true. Also, aren't your analysis of the "innocent" just destroying potential discussion. Your townie people must be innocent so you're making sure that people are only focusing on who you deem to be scummy."

No, you aren't scummy for trying to contribute. You're questionable for contributing in a milquetoast fashion; simply arguing that WIFOM is a dead end, which you repeat, over and over again. You're not adding something new to the game when you state that.

How is it bad to destroy bad arguments? It isn't. But it's been characterized rightly as defensive behavior to argue against an argument that no one has made yet. Pre-empting arguments or inventing discussions is the stuff of people who are thinking about their own survival. Seireikhaan did this in Prometheus and most everyone jumped on it. Except me of course. And he was a scum and so was I.

:clown:

My analysis of the supposed innocent did not destroy discussion. What did GH say? "WOW activity just exploded?" Or words to that effect?

I accept your apology. :smartass:

"It was the first round. Ichigo barely posted. Seamus didn't post much at all. There was little to no evidence against both. Am I to say that oh Ichigo's lurkiness makes him a definate scum? Heck, you didn't have a strong conviction against either too....... Also regarding the ellipsis that I use: I use them because I like using them.......I use them in alot of my posts and this isn't really a major development of my supposedly mafia psyche."

You didn't offer us any other suspects, and you didn't want to make yourself a suspect by potentially killing an innocent. As for the ellipsis, forget about it. It does not matter, and I said I couldn't use that as evidence. Though I notice you made a point about using long ellipsis in this post as evidence that you do it all the time. That in itself is a whiff of something askew. But I said I'd drop it, so why don't you before you incriminate yourself.

:laugh4:

"And you can find alot more posts from most people, including those in your townie list, that do the same thing. I never am too active in games so I try to "just stay active" alot."

We're talking about you right now, don't change the subject. "You are never too active so you try to just stay active alot"? Fine, but I'm pointing out it's the perfect idle behavior to disguise your allegiance, without generating controversy. You've done that all game... you're just kind of there. You and controversy are on opposing ends of the earth, and I suspect you're doing it on purpose to avoid being lynched, instead of looking for suspects on your own. You have taken no risks and contributed close to nothing, yet posted an average amount of times.

That doesn't mean you are mafia, but it does mean you could easily be a mafia that survives to the end of the game doing what you're doing, and since your townie-ness is really sub-par in this game in my estimation, I suggest you be lynched. No biggie. If I deserve to die for my supposed scumminess, then you deserve to die for being far too cautious a player. Take a risk, man! Townies fear nothing. Why do you fear?

"You here are misunderstanding what I am trying to say: I obviously have read the first writeup since how can I not recollect something if I haven't read it? I mean that this first writeup doesn't seem to be copied from any other writeup in other mafia games. I obviously haven't played every mafia game in the Org or even a large portion of it so there is a pretty good chance that if the writeup was copied, some veteran players who have had more games under their belt would have remembered them."

Fair enough. You respond adequately here. A rebuttal does not immediately come to mind.

"Let me say this: I don't have lots of ideas and don't post much like others (you, Tincow, etc...) so if I want to be on the top of postcounts, I'd have to SPAM the thread which would do no good. Lurking excessively can only caused WOG for me, which is bad for the town since I'm a townie so I don't do that.In short, I'm scummy now because I don't spam and I don't want to get WOGed. Seamus and White_eyes were only a few posts more and less than me, respectively. They, however, can't be sucmmy at all since they don't fall within the arbitrary middle do they?"

Now it's your turn to miss MY point: All the things you're doing, collectively, seem to be a deliberate attempt to avoid suspicion well into the endgame, rather than find actual suspects. I am not asking you to be on top of post counts, I am asking that your posts, when you make them, have content besides "I'm here. I think WIFOM is bad. I see no suspects." Generating no controversy and being as ordinary as possible is a legitimate and very effective mafia strategy, and a very ineffective townie strategy unless you were a detective. And forgive me, but IMO you're no detective, so don't bother "revealing".

"Umm......I'm actually a bit of a slouch in most mafia games. I know I was fairly active in yours, but that was because your game had that twist. I would say most people would agree that I tend to be semi-active in most games or basically drop out. I have been WoGed quite a few times and quite often get behind in reading. I am seriously now doubting your analysis skills if all you've deduced from my games is that I always contribute alot because frankly (and kinda sadly) I rarely am that useful of a townie."

I never deduced that you always contribute a lot. You're putting words in my mouth. My accusation was that you have demonstrated in this game "the futility, the lack of energy, the lack of controversy, the lack of suspects, the lack of will, the lack of decisiveness" of a mafia scumbag, and I'll thank you to respond to that, not things that I didn't accuse you of.

"Yea.....I think our number of posts per page is different so can't really rebute here."

Sorry, bad move. The number of posts per page has no bearing on how active you are. If anything, you're inactive for MORE pages than what my system indicates, because I have it at 80 posts per page. You avoid my accusation with a defense that only makes you look worse. And you know exactly what I was talking about, don't pretend it's posts per page I was discussing, it was the LONG stretches of inactivity followed by a brief post, and more long stretches of inactivity.

THAT is evident no matter how many "posts per page" you view the thread with. I do not accept your defense, or lack thereof.

"Again, different # of posts per page"

Nonsense, it has no bearing on the matter. You've avoiding the difference in activity that I accused you of.

"Okay, how the heck is that a bandwagon? Sasaki made a good argument against YLC and want him to respond. Sigurd votes YLC as a pressure vote. Now instead of YLC responding to an attack on him like myself, he votes for himself, which IMO, is incredibly scummy. Quick question: Had I not responded like so and simply voted myself saying that oh there is no point in staying alive at all? Does that make me more or less scummy?"

How was it a bandwagon?

You lurked and lurked and lurked. You were reading the thread, and not commenting. Then, YLC looks scummy to everyone, and already has been voted, and you decide it would be safe to vote for him. Then you disappear again completely, lurking again. Instead of looking for your own suspects, you're clearly just trying to find the least suspicious action that you can possibly do, the safest move to prevent yours or your fellow mafia's lynch.

And yes, YLC's vote on himself is scummy. But it's also bait that you fell for. It's sad when townies react so predictably and don't even try a little bit to figure out why YLC does these things.

As for your quick question, it's an absurd hypothetical, and it was posed in sarcasm from what I can tell. Are you annoyed that someone finally accused you of something? I have to deal with it, so you can too. At least my accusations make sense, as opposed to the absurd notion from parties that shall remain nameless that I killed my own partner and then played in a suicidal fashion... dumb, dumb, dumb.

"ATPG I must applaud you for your effort, but I seriously doubt your reasoning behind my supposed scumminess."

That's fine. But your defense was full of huge gaping holes. I seriously doubt the reasoning behind your defense. Shall we die together?

You claim that I voted for the CoP, tried to stop bad arguments and point out WIFOM beforehand, don't post a great deal, which is my normal behavior, and vote on a clearly scummy or at least, not very helpful townie."

Yes. But that's not the entirety of my argument. You avoided dealing with much of what I accused you of. Also a scummy thing to do. You pretend to not know what I was talking about, and now you know, so respond. Otherwise I find your "defense" entirely disingenuous, and if you won't respond honestly, you look like scum to me.

I am ambivalent as to whether you are a mafioso with WAYYYYYY too much time on your hands or just a misguided townie. Your rather poor analysis and almost capricious choosing of scummy people, however, make me think that you will do little but distract the town's discussion.

My "rather poor analysis" has been lauded by many others, and not just in this game, barring my admittedly bad play in Chicago, I've nailed MANY a scumbag in my time. That said, I never said I was perfect either... lurkers tend to avoid detection. That's why they must die.

And your prediction was dead wrong. But that's beside the point, I have been wrong before and I could easily be wrong here. But you could just as easily be a mafioso.

"Vote: ATPG"

OMGUS vote, kind of predictable. :smartass:

"Edit: I strongly encourage people to actually read ATPG's analysis before just capriciously bandwagoning for whomever he deemed to be scummy.
Edit 2: FOS: Quintus No comment regarding ATPG's analysis at all. Did you even read his analysis of me?"

I love your FOS of Quintus. You seem to be lashing out at the randomest people, like Reenk lashing out at TinCow and Chaotix. Sense a pattern?

And several people did read my analysis, fully, and responded to points I made. But nice try. Bottom line, your defense was poor at best, and your FOS on Quintus was nothing more than grasping at straws. You offer no real suspects, and you're entirely too cautious and defensive to be a viable townie in my opinion. That said, I am not the almighty. My opinion is one in 28. The rest will decide your fate.

Thanks for responding to my post. My case against you is nothing personal, you're still my friend. No hard feelings buddy. Shake hands after the game? It's been delightful to spar with you, I do mean that sincerely. May the better player win, and may all have fun.

EDIT: By the way, "ATPG MUST BE SCUM" People:

If so, my mafia partners tried to save my butt last round. Nice try. Guess who your suspects are.

"TevashSzat: 5 (Quintus.JC, YLC, Beefy187, Askthepizzaguy, Psychonaut)"

Seamus Fermanagh

02-14-2009, 05:05

Some points of interest from the polls (in reverse alpha order):

White_Eyes: D1 = Elect Reenk, D2 = Abstain, D2 Runoff = Seamus, D3 Abstains then changes to Winter, D4 = no vote, D5 = no vote, D5 runoff = Pizza.

Not lurking per se, but avoiding most of the tough votes. Only the vote on Winter would have been made under any presssure. Interestng choice to NOT vote, then vote in the runoffs....

taka: D1 = no vote, D2 = Ichigo, D2 runoff = no vote, D3 = abstain, d4 = Sigurd, d5 = no vote, d5 runoff = tev.

Major lurking, with only 8 posts (1 of which occurred before play began) out of more than 840 total. In those 7 posts he has lodged 4 votes. We need to get him in play...soon.

Seamus: D1 = elect Reenk, D2 = ylc, d2 runoff = no vote, d3 = abstain changed to beefy, d4 = sigurd, changed to rythmic (psycho), d5 = pizza, d5 runoff = chose not to vote.

Does not seem to join in any majority vote thus far. Votes have all been pressure efforts placed on people to, at least ostensibly, solicit information. Frequent poster, but not dominating thread. Has, however, had a few stretches with almost a day of no posting.

Ignoramus: D1 & D2 = no vote, D2 runoff = seamus, d3 = no vote, d4 = ylc, d5 = tev.

Major league lurking, with 4 posts: 1 to sign up and 3 others to vote just frequently enough to completely avoid a wogging. We need him dead or involved, he will not be wogged out.

Askthepizzaguy

02-14-2009, 05:08

After all that hubub about me not rebuttal-ing TevashSzat, you're now online and I have your rebuttal.

Read it and weep, you scummy, scummy scum. :grin:

Edit: I'd love a response from you, Seamus my friend, when you catch my message.

Tally: (From Tevash's tally onward, rechecking)

Tevash: 6 (Quintus, Ignoramus, Ares, Taka, Psychonaut, ATPG)
ATPG: 5 (Sasak Kojiroi, TevashSzat, White_eyes, Reenk Roink, Beefy)

Lord Winter

02-14-2009, 06:04

:wall: This is getting painful to watch. I'm innocent. The mafia has done this before in the Godfather series, GH and Saski won the first game using it. The lack of kills proves nothing. :wall:

Askthepizzaguy

02-14-2009, 06:06

Sasaki Kojiro

02-14-2009, 06:15

"Ok, there's some points I think I could explain more fully: First: Why would ATPG and/or YLC vote to lynch there own partner? Well, I have a reputation for being tenacious and good at convincing people, and I was going after Lord Winter pretty hard. Lord Winter was not successfully defending himself. When you're mafia, the fact that you know your partners are guilty always colors your perception of the game. There are many times I've been very anxious over a post one of my partners made that I thought would give them away only to have it ignored. So by that view, it's quite possible that LW's partners pessimistically considered him as good as dead. "

That's very provocative and insightful. Thank you for sharing your mafia theory with me. I have much to learn from master Sasaki... maybe I can teach you of my ways as well, if you're willing.

"Insightful and provocative" but I guess it went over your head:

Ok. well, you voted for Lord Winter, the scumbag. So did I. so did YLC. so did White Eyes.
Now put on your thinking cap again; (humor me)

If
Lord Winter = Mafia
Askthepizzaguy = Mafia
YLC = Mafia
Then
Askthepizzaguy + YLC kill mafia buddy Lord Winter
Then
Askthepizzaguy + YLC both annoy, distract, and otherwise pester town until we are both prime suspects.
Then
I offer you my head, and say go ahead and lynch YLC.

You must think "mine" and "his" are the size of Mercury. So I thank you for the compliment, but I'm more subtle and clever when I am mafia, not incredibly dumb and suicidal.

YLC has acted suspicious, but the connection between you two is not terribly important. I always try to note connections between people.

Now, I just got done explaining this in great detail to khaan which you missed but I don't mind again. There were two votes on me from people who aren't sold on me being guilty. There were three votes on Lord Winter from people who thought he was guilty. Lord Winter's defense was inadequate. I'm very tenacious. You: brought a failed case on curio with poor logic, which became a vote on lord winter with poor reasoning once he was already going to be lynched, you waffle in another post where you try to leave your options open to unvote lord winter if you can. This has all the signs of a mafioso voting their buddy. I've played extensively on another site where the role of the person lynched is always revealed immediately. Voting to lynch your mafia partner is common, it's almost a guarantee that one mafioso will be voting for their partner if he is lynched. You'd have been lynched in about 5 minutes the following day for the set of posts I'm referencing.

Yeah, forgive me Sasaki, but you're dropping the ball here. Why is it scummy for me to question Curio? And because the case was bad, and Curio answered my questions, I dropped it. That said, I am not going to punish you for questioning me, even if I disagree with your assumptions here. Just please consider my opinions with an equally open mind. Thanks!

In short, your case against me is poor. But a worthy try, so... put that stuff to good use on someone else. You know I'm a dead man walking, so... who else?

Why is it scummy to make bad cases? Seriously? Because mafia have to fake it, which tends to make cases bad. And when they have to fake it quickly it makes the cases worse. If you have records of the past games, tell me what percentage of the votes came accompanied by "His case on so and so uses poor reasoning". It is one of the most common mafia tells. With you I don't think it's that scummy since even mafia can usually do better. It's less scummy for you than it would be for sigurd etc who I would hold to a much higher standard.

3 people who had no heat on them. That's better than say, Tevash, who has no new suspects, lurks, and bandwagons. But thanks for suspecting me so much and him so little.

As I'm sure you noticed, this section was about how terrible your arguments are. Tevash could be mafia but is unremarkable.

And if the detective dies... how could you clear the CoP as a suspect? Only through lynching.

How the bleep do you clear anyone as a suspect if the detective dies? Do you not read over any of the words you type? I'll spell it out for you: you can't pick who the mafia kill so the only way to clear anyone without a detective is by lynching him. Being CoP is not a significant advantage.

Shlin hasn't been really considered as a suspect and he's contributing not much to our efforts. He's being overlooked precisely because he's the CoP.

Shlin is being himself. He isn't being voted because he hasn't done much that's suspicious not because he's chief of police.

You're being too dismissive of me. Disagree if you wish, but I don't think you're giving me a fair shake. I ask you to reconsider, just for a moment, your judgment on me. Humor me.

This is what Reenk plays like as scum or town, and those reasons against him aren't to be just dismissed as nonsense. You didn't even explain why, or cite reasons why it's a bad case. Just writing me off like that actually triggers my scum indicator, but I refuse to threaten you for being hostile to my point of view.

I'm not being too dismissive. I can't accurately describe the quality of your arguments without breaking rule number three, which I've already infringed several times in this post. Let's just say that putting "THIRD ON A BANDWAGON" and "DEAD CENTER" in all caps does not make your arguments more meaningful. Holmes analyzed players numerically based on a complicated system of post count, post frequency, and many other factors and compared players differences between when they were town and when they were scum. Even that system, infinitely more complex than your "dead center= scummy" system, wasn't 100%. I'm always near the top, whether scum or town. Lurkers are near the bottom, and often scum. Third on a bandwagon became a joke a couple games after it was first mentioned. It is not "the safest and most scummy move in the universe". What caught my attention with Lord Winter was describing something as "incredibly suspicious" that wasn't. So you know my opinion of "safest and most scummy move in the universe".

This is what Reenk plays like as scum or town,

You say that this is what reenk plays like when he's town. So reenk could be town, your saying.

I disagree about the middle of the list thing. Mafia do not often end up at the very top or very bottom. Guess what? In Blackadder, I ended up near the middle of the activity chart, and I'm always at the top. I was mafia. I can't be sure, but I think I wasn't the top poster in Prometheus either, especially post-mortem. I always am as a townie.

I already dealt with this, but I'll give it a go again, just to show how ridiculous it is:

Capo II:

Sasaki Kojiro 284 Scum
Andres 218 Scum
TinCow 200
Glenn 163
Caius 160
TruePraetorian 152 Scum
CountArach 146 Scum

Kung Fu:

Orb 134 Scum
Andres 131
The Stranger 109

Godfather 2:

Sasaki Kojiro 171
Don Corleone 81
Husar 78
Ichigo 78 Scum
Silver Rusher 69
GeneralHankerchief 68 Scum
Seamus Fermanagh 64
Myrddraal 58 Scum

Trapped in Taormina:

Privateerkev 219 Scum
Sasaki Kojiro 99 Scum
TinCow 97 Scum
Makanyane 51
Ichigo 50

With lurkers, the post game count doesn't mean much because townies who are killed early and WoG's are there.

Here's some more from your arguments earlier which I didn't bother responding to:

Post 50: Self-incriminating joke. "I am the Godfather." He does stuff like this when he's guilty, too.

Game has not started yet. Roles have not been sent.

Post 115: "Why is the town getting rid of my vote? Ah hell, voting is useless anyway, and I can be courteous without it. Elect: Reenk Roink"
Eager to survive to the endgame and he does usually abstain anyway.

He must be mafia, because he's worried about being night killed? Perhaps your trying to say that he's "eager to have an excuse to survive to endgame" despite the fact that you didn't say that at all, but you can't mean that because you claimed that reenk was insanely good at surviving to endgame normally.

An awful lot of thought on this topic, eh, Reenk? And who would you suggest you'd pick "if you were mafia", if you WERE mafia?

A recall about a dozen people answering the question of who they would pick. This is not a scum tell.

That's enough, I'm tired of this round, and of hashing it out at length when most of the people are voting in one liners. Even if you don't think atpg is particularly scummy (he could be town if you accept that he's terrible at mafia the timing of the vote on lord winter was mere unfortunate coincidence), please accept that he has no idea what he's talking about don't lynch tevash based an his word. Sorry ATPG you put a lot of effort into it but I don't like brown nosing so I'll speak my mind here.

For those who want a summary, I spend about 20% arguing that atpg is scummier than tevash, and 80% going through why his arguments are terrible because there are several people who don't seem to see that. Although I guess they won't read this either.

In the end I go back to my original sentiment regarding atpg. If all of someones arguments are bad, how do you tell if they are mafia? In the endgame if he votes for someone for a reason that is obviously nonsensical (say that they capitalize weird letters in their posts like "CoP", see atpg on shlin) do you just let that slide? No.

Lord Winter

02-14-2009, 06:21

ORLY, Lord Winter?

Then you clearly must be following the thread, and surely you have come up with other suspects (besides me of course... don't be lazy) If I don't get a logical response from you in short order, you've incriminated yourself to show up here to protest your innocence, offering nothing substantive against anyone.

Who are your suspects, and why. Clock is ticking. Cue the Jeopardy theme.

Seamus seems to be less active then usual. His post also seem to be a l light on the anyalsis that normaly see from him. This should be followed up next round.

I don't think your guilty, but I'm buying your case for Tevesh. Its the exact case you were making in Chigago and we all know how that turned out. Your case with Reenk however, has more merit. Not because of the methods you used, but the general vibe he been sending off. He hasn't seemed like his usual sporadic self. This could be because of RL or it could be because he's scum, no way to know with the info we have now, he would be a better lynch if he's still alive in the latter game.

Taka also needs to be watched, he just pulled off a lurker victory in Beefy's miny game.

Now to read to your latest wall of text :study:

Askthepizzaguy

02-14-2009, 06:22

Very well, Sasaki. Thank you for responding. You don't have to agree with me, but I suspect one of us will have egg on his face when the game is over.

:bow:

After I'm dead, we can move on from the whole "ATPG is scum" theory, because that just leaves the Godfather, and you will have plenty of time to catch him. But I still say you're blatantly ignoring the fact that I'm sticking my neck out there to be chopped, and if I am scum, lynching my own partner EARLY when I could have voted for someone else, and you're refusing to use occam's razor.

And Tevash has offered nothing to this game besides bland posts and a vehement defense of himself, which (occam's razor) is scummier than me.

I agree this needs to end so we can move on. Lynch one of us, let's get it moving. Hey, Lord Winter, are you having trouble with the suspect list?

EDIT: It took you 15 minutes to come up with "Seamus is posting less" and "Reenk could be scum"?
Thanks. You've proven my point. That's only one two new suspects, and a bland reasoning behind it. Oh and Taka for lurking... same reason you got lynched.

Sasaki Kojiro

02-14-2009, 06:25

I don't have the inclination right now to go through atpg's arguments on tevash, which is a pity since he's the one up for lynch. Reenks were the ones we discussed before so they got responded to.

But I have time for this one:

How is it bad to destroy bad arguments? It isn't. But it's been characterized rightly as defensive behavior to argue against an argument that no one has made yet. Pre-empting arguments or inventing discussions is the stuff of people who are thinking about their own survival. Seireikhaan did this in Prometheus and most everyone jumped on it. Except me of course. And he was a scum and so was I.

Hypothetical argument against me:
"He's defending himself, he must be scum! Total scum maneuver!"

No, it's not. If you read the content of what I have said, I've offered you my life and will not resist if you choose to lynch me. And if you blatantly ignore WHAT I am saying and only focusing on the fact that I am saying it, you're doing town a disservice and you're being lazy and irresponsible. Sorry, needed to be said. This isn't going to make me popular either, but I refuse to sacrifice logic to suck up to you.

Lord Winter

02-14-2009, 06:27

I stepted away from the computer Pizza, not everyone spends as much time on the .Org as you do. I admit, I didn't dig through the thread to find info but you wanted who I felt was suspicious, not a five page essay on each.

Askthepizzaguy

02-14-2009, 06:27

Yes, Sasaki, I am thinking of my survival.

So much, I offered to die after Reenk, shut up after Tevash, and vote myself every round from now on.

@Lord Winter: Nervous much?

Lord Winter

02-14-2009, 06:29

Yes, Sasaki, I am thinking of my survival.

So much, I offered to die after Reenk, shut up after Tevash, and vote myself every round from now on.

@Lord Winter: Nervous much?

Not really, just worried that the town is basing there whole case off of false data.

Askthepizzaguy

02-14-2009, 06:31

Sasaki Kojiro

02-14-2009, 06:32

Very well, Sasaki. Thank you for responding. You don't have to agree with me, but I suspect one of us will have egg on his face when the game is over.

Not really. All your arguments are poor and I've said we don't want someone in the endgame who has that as an excuse. This is true no matter your alignment. Many things in mafia come down to opinion but an astonishing number of the things you say are proven completely wrong by 10 seconds of research or an understanding of the rules of the game. Or basic math as khaan would say. Anyway, I'm tired and frustrated by lazy people. In the next game I host I'm have a role or two whose win condition is that they kill at least 3 people who are lazy or use arguments that defy the rules of logic. I've probably ended up typing more this round than I usually do in the endgame when the game is on the line, and all because I just think atpg is a better lynch than tevash. I'd like to move on...

best way:

Askthepizzaguy
This message is hidden because Askthepizzaguy is on your ignore list.

Askthepizzaguy

02-14-2009, 06:34

:shakehands: Sasaki, and let's do move on. Please. I am anxious for the rest of the game to begin.

Edit: Suit yourself. I've done my level best to be courteous to you, and I've gotten a lot of condescension and snarkiness in return, and so therefore we will just not post towards one another for the remainder. This is about having fun, and I refuse to make things personal or start a silly feud with a player I respect.

White_eyes:D

02-14-2009, 06:49

Some points of interest from the polls (in reverse alpha order):

White_Eyes: D1 = Elect Reenk, D2 = Abstain, D2 Runoff = Seamus, D3 Abstains then changes to Winter, D4 = no vote, D5 = no vote, D5 runoff = Pizza.

Not lurking per se, but avoiding most of the tough votes. Only the vote on Winter would have been made under any presssure. Interestng choice to NOT vote, then vote in the runoffs....
I was the MAJOR reason why there was a lurker victory in "Chicago Soiree" the only reason why I voted now, was because Khaan and his cryptic defense of ATPG....I have seen it before....:whip: never listen to Khaan....ATPG did and over-analyzed until my name came up twice in a previous game......and we lost because of it...he trusted Khaan and figured he gave up his scum-buddy.....I repeatedly told him....NEVER over-analyze and SkyNet 2.0 is the King of all over-analysises...and I voted Lord Winter at the time because I thought "maybe there both innocent..." If I recall Sasaki was the first one to change his vote....and I was the second or third too.....I well not let another "Chicago Soiree" victory happen....and I sure as hell won't be the guy who helps that happen, so if you expect me to vote like crazy....then you are in for some disappointment..:whip:

Lord Winter

02-14-2009, 06:54

No wait White Eyes, what? Just a little over protective there. Not to mention your logic.

Askthepizzaguy

02-14-2009, 06:54

I could point out mistakes other people made in previous games and never let them live it down, but if I did that, even you veterans could be told to keep quiet and never analyze anyone.

It's the height of hypocrisy to hold someone to the standard of never making a mistake.

This is becoming less fun now. Let's not make things personal. Just enjoy the game and vote who you like.

Askthepizzaguy

02-14-2009, 06:59

In fact, let's end this now.

If Askthepizzaguy overtakes TevashSzat in the tally, thus making me the top vote getter for the lynch, at this point I say stop the vote right there and lynch me. Enough time has been spent.

If Tevash beats me in the vote, just end the round. His scum buddies already voted me.

ULC

02-14-2009, 07:02

Oi - some please post a tally :brood:

White_eyes:D

02-14-2009, 07:02

No wait White Eyes, what? Just a little over protective there. Not to mention your logic.

I won't heed the words of a lurker Mafia..:tongue:

and ATPG, no offense..your analysis is good.....but your bias "clouds your judgment"....and it leaves the door wide open for the Mafia......I would be the first to look at the facts....rather then just posting behavior.....:juggle2:

Beefy187

02-14-2009, 07:03

Yeah, where have I heard that before... from Reenk and Tevash. Hmm...

@Sasaki:

Quintus.JC, White_Eyes, YLC, Beefy187, Psychonaut, Seireikhaan, Chaotix27, Ares, and myself. These are the people who will chuckle when you turn out to be dead wrong about me.

I am having the time of my life here. I will remember this game forever. :laugh4:

I won't chuckle.. I will laugh

Chuckle is smiley I don't have. I only have beam and laugh

And its not that I think your guilty. Infact other then Ignomorus, I don't see anyone standing out. I just want to see a full on argument with Tevash so everything is fair.

Askthepizzaguy

02-14-2009, 07:03

Can I get an "amen" on ending the round if I become the lead vote again?

Please? Let's end this.

Same tally as before, feel free to recheck it.

Tevash: 6 (Quintus, Ignoramus, Ares, Taka, Psychonaut, ATPG)
ATPG: 5 (Sasak Kojiro, TevashSzat, White_eyes, Reenk Roink, Beefy

ULC

02-14-2009, 07:07

Thank you :bow:

Vote:Tevash

Beefy187

02-14-2009, 07:08

Rechecked. Ares abstained so heres the latest tally

(including YLCs vote)

Tevash: 6 (Quintus, Ignoramus, Taka, Psychonaut, ATPG, YLC)
ATPG: 5 (Sasak Kojiro, TevashSzat, White_eyes, Reenk Roink, Beefy

Askthepizzaguy

02-14-2009, 07:11

Oh, didn't see Ares' abstain. My sincerest apologies. :shame:

Offer still stands. Please lynch me if I hit magic number 7 and Tevash is still at 6. Two more votes.

Sasaki Kojiro

02-14-2009, 07:15

I've decided to vote for psychonaut until he gets lynched, starting next round. No reason necessary. We have about 8 lynches so why not?

White_eyes:D

02-14-2009, 07:17

ATPG...don't take this personally.....you did a real good analysis.....and have at some points inspired me Like this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuPpCSmT4dE&feature=related) it's like even if you get off this.....you are going to be lynched in the future.....yet, are fighting Claw, Tooth and Nail to make sure we all know that you are town and used many hours of your life on this to make sure Mafia didn't win.....I give you my thanks on this....:smash:

Askthepizzaguy

02-14-2009, 07:21

No, White_Eyes, it's OK. Seriously.

I just have grown weary of people who don't know for a fact that Reenk and Tevash aren't scum posting in a condescending fashion about how wrong I am, and about how horrible my analyses are, when I have a track record that, while imperfect, actually says otherwise.

I've been discussed to death, and it's OVER. I'm done! I had fun, but now we are beating a dead horse. Either lynch Tevash, or lynch me. I'm beyond caring at this point. I will come back later and continue doing my work for town if I die, and I'll shut up if I am a dead mafia, so you will know. No apologies necessary, let's turn the game forward. Tevash is afraid to die, I'm not.

Vote.

naut

02-14-2009, 07:25

I've decided to vote for psychonaut until he gets lynched, starting next round. No reason necessary. We have about 8 lynches so why not?
Lol. Alright then. ~:flirt:

Askthepizzaguy

02-14-2009, 07:45

My track record, in case anyone cares.

Lunar Whale: Town

Nailed all the mafia, but made a last second vote change which lynched FactionHeir instead, due to El Diablo pleading with me for his life. Town didn't follow my advice, and the game ended with a loss.

Mafia nailed: 2/2 remaining.

Fillet Royale: Town

Dropped out after I got murdered early, didn't come back until there was the final moments. QJC and the other suspect were tied. I grilled QJC and was sure he was mafia. Reenk Roink showed up and confirmed it, and I confirmed he was innocent. I was right. Town victory.

Mafia nailed: Partial credit- 1/1 remaining

Resident Evil: Zombie

I killed the mafia and town won. I was neutral and didn't care either way. Though this doesn't count, I knew he was a scumbag all along, but he wanted to bait me into attacking him, and I obliged.

Mafia killed: 1/1 remaining.
Prometheus: Mafia

I behaved much differently here than any other game. Mafia won. And I left clues incriminating my mafia partner.

Mafia hinted at being scum: 1/1 remaining

Family Guy: Town

I nailed Seireikhaan and QJC, and even Rythmic early. I eventually second guessed myself and voted White Eyes instead of Rythmic. I personally cost town the game, but I was correct on all 3 mafia.

Mafia nailed: 3/3

Chicago Soiree: Town

Didn't use my analysis system on everyone in the game. Consequently, I focused on the wrong people and we lost. My biggest mistake.

Mafia nailed: 0, my fault.

Sourge of Ephesus: Town

Got partial scum readings on two of the scum while they were still alive, cleared two townies, falsely accused two. I claim no credit points.

Mafia nailed: 0, but most other townies were dead wrong too.

You Can't Win: Neutral

Nailed Andres and revealed my accusation against him privately. Even got him to basically admit to me his guilt. Then I joined his team because he was bold enough to admit it.

Mafia nailed: 1 out of 1 remaining.

Whispers in the Night: Town

Nailed Glyphz and I believe I was responsible for his death. Accidentally and erroneously nailed Sigurd who was pro-town at the time, later was SK, so no credit. Detected Shlin as having a role but thought he was mafia. Many of the people were dead and that was a complex game, so I am only claiming my one prize.

Mafia nailed: 1 out of several.

The Godfather: Town

Deciding vote on a mafioso (so far as we can tell, at least give me a 75% chance or better on that), and Reenk and Tevash, between them, there's at least one scumbag there. That would make 2. But since the game is not over, I claim no credit.

Mafia nailed: We will see.

Blackadder Mafia: Mafia

Nailed Thermal Mercury AKA Ares as being the scummiest besides myself, he was the Serial Killer. Nailed the vigilante role in second place in my system.

Both are considered the "enemy" from my point of view, and I cleared the other two. So I'm claiming credit.

Targets nailed by SkyNet: 2/2 remaining

Jubal's Mafia: Mafia

I was mafia, but I helped nail someone who came up as evil in the investigation. So even when I am mafia, I still help town.

Evil character nailed: 1/1 besides us mafia.So, thats 12 or more mafia (or hostile-to-me targets) destroyed/detected out of 12 games I've been in, and hints at who the real scum are in at least one game when I was scum. My analysis is worthless. Thank you.

Edit: GH tells me he won't end the round even if I get 7 votes, because he's supposed to be impartial. I understand, and withdraw my offer. Doesn't matter anyway.

Gaius Scribonius Curio

02-14-2009, 11:07

All I'm going to add to my last post is that Tevash's defense seems fairly solid to me. Based on that, and the fact that my attitude hasn't really changed since yesterday...

Vote: Abstain

Thermal

02-14-2009, 13:17

just to clarify, sasaki told me i forgot to unvote

so unvote, vote: abstain

sorry for any confusion

Reenk Roink

02-14-2009, 13:37

I can't believe your guys are putting faith in a system that has been frankly, ripped to shreds in almost every way.

You say Atpg is probably not Mafia?

Fine. I say that doesn't make him innocent at all and he is being an awful townie.

Atpg doesn't even bother addressing me calling out his inconsistencies and my charge of him construing every one of my posts and actions in an ad hoc manner and then using buzzwords such as "logic" when he either misunderstands the term or uses it so loosely to refer to a way of reasoning (not to mention that the contradictions in his post make it look worse) and now his favorite word "scummy" because he has no substance to refute my points.

TevashSzat is probably an innocent man, I already owe him for my work in Scourge of Ephesus, and everything he has done so far makes him look even more innocent. I will defend him like I defend Beefy.

Atpg got himself into this situation, but he unfortunately dragged Tevash into it too. Please redress this wrong and lynch the one detrimental to our cause. Lynch Atpg. :bow:

I just have grown weary of people who don't know for a fact that Reenk and Tevash aren't scum posting in a condescending fashion about how wrong I am, and about how horrible my analyses are, when I have a track record that, while imperfect, actually says otherwise.

Your "track record" is horribly misguided. For one, you claim "victories" when you really didn't do anything. Case in point with QJC in Fillet Royale. Do you realize how tenuous your claim of "grilling QJC" was? It did nothing to add to my suspicion of him to be quite honest. I already knew that the Mafia must be either QJC or YLC beforehand, and had decided that QJC was the better choice beforehand as well.

Add to that you "confirming" I was innocent. :laugh4: Sorry Atpg, but nearly everyone at that point realized I was The Watcher, as the gradual letters were designed to do that. You take far too much credit here.

In Family Guy you say you nailed Rythmic and then second guessed yourself and voted otherwise, but claim Rythmic as a "victory" anyway? :rolleyes4: Come on Atpg, anyone can say at the end "I had suspicions of such and such" it's so weak.

In Whispers of the Night, the town didn't follow your lead to lynch glyphz much at all. The reason that glyphz and shlin were on the cutting block is because everyone else had revealed. And then shlin revealed. So it went down to glyphz. Recall that glyphz got very little voting support when you made your case against him, and only after shlin was eliminated as a suspect.

The Prometheus case is just sad if true? You actually intended to put clues and did put clues against your own partner?!? :shocked: Remind me of that fact when I get the chance to pick partners... :shame:

I'm sorry, but I will say it's a bit self centered to associate such importance of your system in those games. Your track record is no better or no worse than random guessing, which is what I would expect from any method of analysis. Add to this that your method is essentially using Mafia cliches like lurking, 3rd on the bandwagon, and the good old misguided behavior changes to draw conclusions. It's epistemic value is not high.

I'm sorry if my criticisms of your system seem harsh Atpg (recall that I encouraged you to play in your way and still do), but you must be ready to accept it, especially when your system criticizes others wrongly and promotes itself as the best method. Don't act like the victim Atpg, you have brought this on yourself.

I've been discussed to death, and it's OVER. I'm done! I had fun, but now we are beating a dead horse. Either lynch Tevash, or lynch me. I'm beyond caring at this point. I will come back later and continue doing my work for town if I die, and I'll shut up if I am a dead mafia, so you will know. No apologies necessary, let's turn the game forward. Tevash is afraid to die, I'm not.

If you weren't afraid to die, unvote Tevash. In fact, vote yourself right now. You say you are more than willing to do it later anyway, so why not now? :no:

shlin28

02-14-2009, 14:20

I got an idea... why don't we lynch ATPG this round, then lynch Tevash next round? Its not like delaying a lynch is gonna make the town lose... this is just like the plan ATPG proposed, but the other way round. (ATPG is trying to force my side (Sasaki, Tevash etc) to compromise, but why don't you compromise first?

As for my "worthless" analysises (according to ATPG...), I've never been good at those things, I just get along trying to be as least suspcious as possible in the thread, not doing much. Only when I get a role do I get relatively active and gets paranoid -(See my constant reassurances to the town that I will be back in X hours in Whispers in the Night). I just play mafia for the heck of it and for fun :yes:

and a Rebuttal to his evil Wallz of Textz:

If that's the best you have to offer, Shlin, and you don't give better suspects soon, my opinion of your skills as town or mafia will have diminished. And you're registering higher on the scumdar with each post. Fair warning, my friend.
I'm just wondering why you think trying to become CoP is suspicious. CoPs have pratically NO powers whatsoever - especially as they will be scrutinesed extenisvely due to their status. Sure the candidates/winner needs to be thoroughly vetted, but get lynched just because of what they did during the elections? As for suspects, I'm just doing what I normally do.

To be fair, my specific criticism of you is that you're defensive, quick to judge me, you're dismissive and sarcastic. What are you hiding? You have every right to criticize me, and disagree. I just think you made a poor case against me, gave a scummy defense, and have been disastrously wrong so far. Plus you got support from people I consider scum. No proof, just interesting.So if I protect someone you suspect, I muse be scum...? Does that mean I can accuse you of being scummy because you helped YLC/others?

You're not doing a good job as Police Chief. I recommend you be lynched before the game is over. You're mostly just joking around, and your analysis is lacking, and your suspects are easy marks. You're not putting forth effort, and that galls me to no end, buddy.The CoP has no powers apart from deciding lynch method (useless strategically wise) and be immune from kills - what the hell I'm I supposed to do with that? :dizzy2: The only good job I can do is do good lynch write-ups, and I think I'm doing very well at that. Even if I was not CoP, I would still behave the same way (minus the pompous entrances and equally pompous exits...).

Anyway, I don't have to make this post, I could just ignore this and keep playing the normaly way, especially as I am in no way threatened to be lynched. BUT, I choose to make this post because I feel that Tevash' treatment is unjustified and your suspicions on me are groundless.

:bow:

PS: If it doesn't make any sense, I wrote in a hurry, so sorry in advance.

PS 2: I'm just basing this on the top of my head, I didn't actually look back in the thread, so any inconsitencies that are found are my mistakes :embarassed:

Andres

02-14-2009, 14:22

I've read about 100 posts (yes, I wasn't online yesterday evening) on frickin' Valentine's Day (in the meanwhile letting my lovely wife wait for me) because the host was concerned about things getting too heated.

It was not a fun read. In fact, I'm considering to commit suicide in this game (apologies to GH, this has nothing to do with the quality of the host, you know I hold you in very high regard, good sir :bow:) based on what I've seen.

My track record, in case anyone cares.

Lunar Whale: Town

Nailed all the mafia, but made a last second vote change which lynched FactionHeir instead, due to El Diablo pleading with me for his life. Town didn't follow my advice, and the game ended with a loss.

Mafia nailed: 2/2 remaining.

Fillet Royale: Town

Dropped out after I got murdered early, didn't come back until there was the final moments. QJC and the other suspect were tied. I grilled QJC and was sure he was mafia. Reenk Roink showed up and confirmed it, and I confirmed he was innocent. I was right. Town victory.

Mafia nailed: Partial credit- 1/1 remaining

Resident Evil: Zombie

I killed the mafia and town won. I was neutral and didn't care either way. Though this doesn't count, I knew he was a scumbag all along, but he wanted to bait me into attacking him, and I obliged.

Mafia killed: 1/1 remaining.
Prometheus: Mafia

I behaved much differently here than any other game. Mafia won. And I left clues incriminating my mafia partner.

Mafia hinted at being scum: 1/1 remaining

Family Guy: Town

I nailed Seireikhaan and QJC, and even Rythmic early. I eventually second guessed myself and voted White Eyes instead of Rythmic. I personally cost town the game, but I was correct on all 3 mafia.

Mafia nailed: 3/3

Chicago Soiree: Town

Didn't use my analysis system on everyone in the game. Consequently, I focused on the wrong people and we lost. My biggest mistake.

Mafia nailed: 0, my fault.

Sourge of Ephesus: Town

Got partial scum readings on two of the scum while they were still alive, cleared two townies, falsely accused two. I claim no credit points.

Mafia nailed: 0, but most other townies were dead wrong too.

You Can't Win: Neutral

Nailed Andres and revealed my accusation against him privately. Even got him to basically admit to me his guilt. Then I joined his team because he was bold enough to admit it.

Mafia nailed: 1 out of 1 remaining.

Whispers in the Night: Town

Nailed Glyphz and I believe I was responsible for his death. Accidentally and erroneously nailed Sigurd who was pro-town at the time, later was SK, so no credit. Detected Shlin as having a role but thought he was mafia. Many of the people were dead and that was a complex game, so I am only claiming my one prize.

Mafia nailed: 1 out of several.

The Godfather: Town

Deciding vote on a mafioso (so far as we can tell, at least give me a 75% chance or better on that), and Reenk and Tevash, between them, there's at least one scumbag there. That would make 2. But since the game is not over, I claim no credit.

Mafia nailed: We will see.

Blackadder Mafia: Mafia

Nailed Thermal Mercury AKA Ares as being the scummiest besides myself, he was the Serial Killer. Nailed the vigilante role in second place in my system.

Both are considered the "enemy" from my point of view, and I cleared the other two. So I'm claiming credit.

Targets nailed by SkyNet: 2/2 remaining

Jubal's Mafia: Mafia

I was mafia, but I helped nail someone who came up as evil in the investigation. So even when I am mafia, I still help town.

Evil character nailed: 1/1 besides us mafia.So, thats 12 or more mafia (or hostile-to-me targets) destroyed/detected out of 12 games I've been in, and hints at who the real scum are in at least one game when I was scum. My analysis is worthless. Thank you.

Edit: GH tells me he won't end the round even if I get 7 votes, because he's supposed to be impartial. I understand, and withdraw my offer. Doesn't matter anyway.

There is a reason why there will never be a 'ranking system' as long as I have something to say about Gameroom policy. Competition brings out the worst in people. The Gameroom is NOT a place where we compete and I find it bad taste to sum up ones' merits like that.

We are here to have fun, not to compare penis length.

I will now log out (yes, that's what I do when I get angry, to avoid typing things I shouldn't type, maybe it's a tactic some of you should consider as well) and will think before I decide whether or not to suicide from this game.

Thank you for paying attention to your boring moderator.

:bow:

EDIT: a while ago, Sigurd spent a whole lot of time making this thread (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=110578). I suggest you honor his efforts by reading it, especially numbers 2, 3 and 6 under the section "General Rules and Advice". Thanks in advance.

shlin28

02-14-2009, 14:37

Understand Andres :yes:

Please don't leave this game! It won't be the same without you! As the local CoP, I can make it worth your while to stay! Pretty please?

White_eyes:D

02-14-2009, 15:06

I AM SORRY I messed up:shame:.....but I well be more sportsman-like....rather then...:smartass:....(I feel like I did something really wrong so I am saying I'm sorry...:bow:)

seireikhaan

02-14-2009, 16:45

Sorry Andres, I was totally out of line. It won't happen again. :shame:

Seamus Fermanagh

02-14-2009, 16:50

I have no qualms about removing BOTH Tev and Pizza. Seems practical enough. Of the two, I find Pizza's case more choppy -- Sasaki makes good points. Moreover, Pizza's offer to put his head on a chopping block is not indicative of innocence. As he and Reenk taught us in Prometheus, such a "gambit" is part of the repetoire.

Vote: Pizza

Others in serious need of swimming with our Laserine Sharks include:

Psyhco, Iggy, and Taka. WAY too much lurk and vote lurk and vote from that trio. They need to be weeded out even if NOT mafia, just because a lack of commentary and discussion always plays into the mafia's hands.

TevashSzat

02-14-2009, 17:01

Okay, I can't believe this has gone this far already, but as per the rules of GH, the Detective cannot reveal privately to anyone.

Thats right, guys, I am the Detective. That is partially the reason why I actually made a long rebuttal to ATPG's analysis of me. I wanted to head off any votes on me so I won't actually have to do a reveal, but here we are.

If people don't trust me, fine, and go lynch me, but know that you will be killing your only detective and drastically reducing your chances of winning the game.

This is what I have gotten from my investigations:

Night 1: I investigated shlin, of course. If the mafia had somehow gotten the CoP, they would have a tremendous advantage.

Result: Innocent. That means that shlin is definately not a Grunt, but he may still be the Godfather.

Night 2: I investigated Sasaki this time. The Day lynching was somewhat of a choice between the lesser of two evils ie Seamus and Ichigo and I had no one jump out as being really scummy. Thus, I chose an old veteran that would definately be contributing to the town

Result: Innocent.

Night 3: Alas, did not manage to get in my results in time. I don't know what I was thinking, but I didn't send it in early.

By the time I got back from school the next day, I had missed the night deadline by like an hour or so.....

Night 4: Investigated YLC due to the whole thing with him there

Results: Innocent. Meh, I still didn't know from then since he screamed scummy to me, but with ATPG's whole YLC thing I guess that explains it

As for people who ask me why I didn't reveal earlier: When I had last saw the thread, ATPG was ahead of me in votes and I didn't think I was in that much of risk of getting lynched.

Unfortunately, we tied. I still didn't reveal because I have had no results so far and it would be a shame to reveal so early.

But now, here we are and I hope you guys like what you've forced me to do.

BTW, I love how ATPG thinks taka is scummy for lurking when Ignoramus, who is on his "trusted people list" is lurking even more. Rythmic has basically done the same

seireikhaan

02-14-2009, 17:03

seireikhaan

02-14-2009, 17:32

Quintus.JC

02-14-2009, 17:33

Thats right, guys, I am the Detective. That is partially the reason why I actually made a long rebuttal to ATPG's analysis of me. I wanted to head off any votes on me so I won't actually have to do a reveal, but here we are.

So you do have a role (detective or not)...

Unvote: Tevash

Revealing to be the detective will be your last ditch defense, even if ATPG gets lynched this round I doubt you'll survive for long.

A fair compromise.

TinCow

02-14-2009, 17:47

Tevash, please post your complete role PM.

Chaotix

02-14-2009, 18:11

I said I would keep this game tied, and I will do everything in my power to keep it that way. We do not have to lynch either of them.

Vote: TevashSzat

Tally:

Tevash: 6 (Chaotix27, Ignoramus, Taka, Psychonaut, ATPG, YLC)
ATPG: 6 (Sasaki Kojiro, TevashSzat, White_eyes, Reenk Roink, Beefy, Seamus)

Abstaining: Ares, Gaius (possibly others, I didn't check previous pages)

shlin28

02-14-2009, 18:16

How would you know they would both survive? As far as I recall GH has said nothing cocerning what happens after the tie vote.

In light of Tevash's reveal, I suggest we lynch ATPG and then see if Tevash gets killed. If we let them get into the murky terriotaries of what happens when they are still tied after this extended round of voting... maybe BOTH may be lynched. Who knows?

Edit: Didn't Khaan kinda claimed detective already? :S

Andres

02-14-2009, 18:19

Chaotix27, did you see Tevashzats' role reveal?

Vote : Askthepizzaguy

1) I don't want to lynch a possible detective;
2) ATPG still looks scummy to me;
3) Tevashzat never struck me as guilty. The somewhat aggressive tone he used to defend himself is not out of the ordinary. In fact, I've seen him posting like that before when under pressure as a townie.

GeneralHankerchief

02-14-2009, 18:27

Reenk Roink

02-14-2009, 18:40

I believe Tevash (sorry on behalf of the town it came to this).

Please please please try to investigate Seamus as soon as night comes. I don't know if GH is still doing the realism thing but if your order goes in before the Mafia you will get your result sooner. I think Seamus is a bad guy, let's see if he's a grunt or not. :bow:

Sasaki Kojiro

02-14-2009, 19:31

Dear Seamus, I hope you can get back into the thread before this round ends. It would be a terrible pity if you were to have lodged a vote against Pizzaguy just before this new information becomes available and not be able to get back and evaluate this reveal now.

Now khaan. Revealing after death is usually prohibited in GH games, but you've been hinting at being detective for ages despite that. Surely, given what your implying here, you're at liberty to explain exactly what you claim you were hinting at in your posts before you were killed. Your behavior has been somewhat fishy.

********

Standard procedure for detective claims is to leave them alive until a later point in the game and then lynch them. We can probably give tevash 5 rounds--killing the other grunt is not key really, finding him would be more useful in terms of finding the connection between the grunt and the godfather.

Nothing about tevash's claim screams innocence or guilt to me.

glyphz

02-14-2009, 19:58

For the record, if the game stays tied after the deadline passes, then the round stays extended until the tie gets broken.

Since I won't have enough time to write anything before I leave, the round will conclude in a few hours.

There's no point keeping things tied. TevashSzat's reveal (true or not) makes the decision a bit easier.
Vote: Askthepizzaguy
Atpg, I hope you'll still attempt to give us a hand, post-mortem

Askthepizzaguy

02-14-2009, 20:19

Very well. You have basically decided to lynch me, but I will still help out.

Oh, I have something regarding shlin based on Seireikhaan's cryptic clues.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2130087&postcount=351

Night 2

Seireikhaan was driving down the street when he noticed a damsel in distress frantically waving her arms. He pulled up to her and offered his help. She explained that she needed to change a flat tire. As Seireikhaan checked the busted tire, a dark figure came into view and smashed his head with the tire iron, knocking him out cold.

Seireikhaan woke up many hours later in a dark cavern.

"What? Where am I?"

A deep voice replied "You are in a cave many miles from town. No one but me knows you are here. You are finished."

Seireikhaan looked around and discovered that he was strapped down to a metal chair. As he struggled to free himself, a large screen rolls down in front of him. Suddenly the screen goes bright and a video of a masked figure eating babies started rolling.

"I have your chair placed right above a giant tank of water. That button in your right hand will cause you to have a watery death," boomed the voice with laughter.

Seireikhaan did not last through the hour. His drowned remains were shipped to the front office of the Gameroom in the morning.

After the recent murders of Tratorix and CountArach, boudica had good reason not to go out at night for anything, other than for the lynching of Ichigo.

It didn't bother boudica enough to keep her from her evening jogging routine, however. After all, what was a potential mafia attack with the potential of destroying her entire peaceful little town when compared to the maintenance of her fitness regimen?

To be fair, it helped that she jogged on the other side of town from Tratorix's usual route. boudica went the scenic way, spending quite a bit of time in the Frontroom Park, far away from the alleyway, which, by this point, had been sealed off due to Tratorix's murder.

She jogged past the lake with its many mice and trace amounts of osmium, around the Frontroom cliffs with its extremely pointy rocks at the bottom, back to the lake where, sitting on a bench that looked like it had never been there before, was a man dressed in a business suit and hat waving at boudica.

boudica, out of breath, stopped automatically to wave back and chat with the man.

"Excellent evening for running, I do say," he said amiably.

"They all are," boudica replied.

"Indeed," said the man. "Allow me to recommend a beautiful route up in the hills if you're up for a change of scenery."

"The hills, eh?" boudica panted. "Maybe it is time to adjust my route. I'll have to try that sometime."

"I'm afraid you won't be able to," the man said, pushing boudica in the lake and holding her head under till she drowned, all with an apologetic smile on his face.

Eventually, Chief of Police shlin28 got wind of all these murders and grinned. The mafia hadn't been eliminated yet. That meant he got to supply another cool execution. After making a few phone calls to local farms, he gathered everybody in the town square, passing the nude unicyclist juggler and the guy with the boombox in the park. Stopping at this second guy, he asked a question.

"You," he said, "you're always at the park. Did you see anything strange?"

"No, man," the guy replied. "I was too busy chilling out to Perry Mason by Ozzy Osbourne."

"Well, all right," shlin said. "But I'm keeping my eye on you."

After some time, everyone had arrived, including the results of the few phone calls he had made. As a result, shlin was ready to begin the day's proceedings.

"All right, people," he said, getting everybody's attention. "Clearly, the mafia are still around, which means you losers didn't get it right last time. As such, we're going to try it again. And this time, the person with the most parts will literally be torn apart. I have acquired four majestic horses. They will each be attached to one of the unlucky person's limbs, and when I give the order they will race apart in different directions. Good luck!"

~~~~~~~~~~~~

Still alive: (23)
shlin28
YLC
777Ares777
Andres
TevashSzat
Quintus.JC
Lord Winter
Rythmic
White_eyes:D
Chaotix27
Sigurd
Reenk Roink
glyphz
187Beefyz
taka
Seamus Fermanagh
Jolt
LittleGrizzly
Gaius Scribonius Curio
Ignoramus
Askthepizzaguy
TinCow
Sasaki Kojiro

Killed:
Tratorix
CountArach
seireikhaan
boudica

Executed:
Ichigo

================================

Eventually, Chief of Police shlin28 got wind of all these murders and grinned. The mafia hadn't been eliminated yet. That meant he got to supply another cool execution. After making a few phone calls to local farms, he gathered everybody in the town square, passing the nude unicyclist juggler and the guy with the boombox in the park. Stopping at this second guy, he asked a question.

"You," he said, "you're always at the park. Did you see anything strange?" "No, man," the guy replied. "I was too busy chilling out to Perry Mason by Ozzy Osbourne."

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Seireikhaan voted Shlin for invoking the execution method of EVIL. Seireikhaan was killed the very next night, and thusly could no longer reveal his role, which I deduce was an investigator role.

Shlin I strongly suspect is a bad guy, but not the Godfather.

Oh, and GeneralHankerchief is the nude unicyclist dropping us hints, so far as I can tell. Unless someone here wants to claim the nude unicyclist. Or the Boombox guy. I haven't quite solved that part.

The hint, by the way, was obvious... a mason died that night. I think that is what it means.

----Or at least, I believe the first part is what Seireikhaan was implying. I think there's too much of a coincidence, and Seireikhaan is totally innocent, and I doubt he would try so hard to hint at something we'd need to figure out on our own if he wasn't absolutely sure about it.

Assuming GeneralHankerchief allowed such posts, he hasn't stepped over the hinting line, and I had been suspecting Shlin for some time now, and my suspects voted him, and as soon as the thing with Tevash and Reenk was over, Shlin was next on my chopping block, for being totally irrelevant and unhelpful in his role as police chief.

Good night, Shlin. I believe you're a henchman, not the Godfather, and so therefore if the game continues, Reenk should be next, then you. No hard feelings, but perhaps, just maybe, you shouldn't have gotten your mafia buddy to vote for you. It's a bit of a telling clue, and you should really have put on a better act instead of being a non-serious jokester with no clues and no reasons and no real suspects.

If you all don't want Reenk to die next, you can choose between me and Shlin28. I for one don't care, but I suspect Reenk of being the scumbag, followed closely by Sasaki Kojiro for his absolutely stubborn refusal to listen to me and his consistent backing of my opponents.

Seireikhaan, I totally understand your immense frustration now. From this perspective, you must have been grinding your teeth and shaking your head at our collective idiocy for quite a while. I sincerely apologize for not taking a closer look sooner.

If I am dead wrong about this, so be it, but I see no other solution which explains all of your behavior.

It saddens me you won't give me a benefit of the doubt for just one day. I am sorely disappointed in you.

And yeah, I spent my valentines' day solving Seireikhaan's clues. Thanks.

EDIT:

Okay, I can't believe this has gone this far already, but as per the rules of GH, the Detective cannot reveal privately to anyone.

Thats right, guys, I am the Detective. That is partially the reason why I actually made a long rebuttal to ATPG's analysis of me. I wanted to head off any votes on me so I won't actually have to do a reveal, but here we are.

If people don't trust me, fine, and go lynch me, but know that you will be killing your only detective and drastically reducing your chances of winning the game.

This is what I have gotten from my investigations:

Night 1: I investigated shlin, of course. If the mafia had somehow gotten the CoP, they would have a tremendous advantage.

Result: Innocent. That means that shlin is definately not a Grunt, but he may still be the Godfather.

Night 2: I investigated Sasaki this time. The Day lynching was somewhat of a choice between the lesser of two evils ie Seamus and Ichigo and I had no one jump out as being really scummy. Thus, I chose an old veteran that would definately be contributing to the town

Result: Innocent.

Night 3: Alas, did not manage to get in my results in time. I don't know what I was thinking, but I didn't send it in early.

By the time I got back from school the next day, I had missed the night deadline by like an hour or so.....

Night 4: Investigated YLC due to the whole thing with him there

Results: Innocent. Meh, I still didn't know from then since he screamed scummy to me, but with ATPG's whole YLC thing I guess that explains it

As for people who ask me why I didn't reveal earlier: When I had last saw the thread, ATPG was ahead of me in votes and I didn't think I was in that much of risk of getting lynched.

Unfortunately, we tied. I still didn't reveal because I have had no results so far and it would be a shame to reveal so early.

But now, here we are and I hope you guys like what you've forced me to do.

BTW, I love how ATPG thinks taka is scummy for lurking when Ignoramus, who is on his "trusted people list" is lurking even more. Rythmic has basically done the same

TevashSzat's role reveal is completely bogus.

EDIT: Andres, I am sorry if I crossed a line. When confronted with numerous "my analysis is worthless" accusations I did my best to prove otherwise. And I don't flaunt my record, because I've made big errors before.

I'm scheduled to die very shortly. Would anyone care to discuss anything with me?

White_eyes:D

02-14-2009, 20:40

TevashSzat's role reveal is completely bogus.
How?....unless you know something we don't....I don't think Khaan is the detective...:juggle2:

glyphz

02-14-2009, 20:41

I doubt much of town has time to consider/analyze the new evidence presented by both sides.

Unvote: Askthepizzaguy; Vote: TevashSzat to temporarily keep things tied. Although individuals can simply overturn this tie. (currently, tied at 7 a piece) And yes, thiss phase has lasted a bit too long too.

@ GeneralHankerchief: HOw many hours are left before this phase ends?

Askthepizzaguy

02-14-2009, 20:43

Yes, ask me anything you like and give me more time to present my case. You have nothing to lose in hearing me out.

Ask yourselves this:

Imagine if Seireikhaan is the investigator, and decided to check Shlin28. Lo and behold, it came back scum. Then, he mentioned it in the thread, in a subtle way, and voted Shlin. He wanted to survive as the detective so he didn't reveal.

Then, later, Tevash, under pressure, under threat of death, REVEALS he is the investigator, and clears Shlin28, his mafia buddy.

How convenient.

Will you do me the honor of trusting me, for JUST ONE ROUND.

Talk to me. Ask me to restate simply my case against anyone here.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2127219&postcount=218

Seireikhaan's final vote.

shlin28

02-14-2009, 20:48

glyphz

02-14-2009, 20:49

Yes, ask me anything you like and give me more time to present my case. You have nothing to lose in hearing me out.

Ask yourselves this:

Imagine if Seireikhaan is the investigator, and decided to check Shlin28. Lo and behold, it came back scum. Then, he mentioned it in the thread, in a subtle way, and voted Shlin. He wanted to survive as the detective so he didn't reveal.

Then, later, Tevash, under pressure, under threat of death, REVEALS he is the investigator, and clears Shlin28, his mafia buddy.

How convenient.

Will you do me the honor of trusting me, for JUST ONE ROUND.It won't be that easy, to put more weight on such (Imagine), compared to someone claiming to be the detective. It might be easier to prove TS' innocence, by lynching you and see if TS gets targeted by next night (at which town has nothing to prevent it, I believe).

Askthepizzaguy

02-14-2009, 20:50

:laugh4:

Note: I CAN ONLY BE A GODFATHER OR TOWNIE! If I was a grunt and tried to be the CoP, I would be found out and lynched so fast before I can think of a decent lynch method.

Why would, if I was a grunt, I take such a risk and try to become CoP?

Nailed you, Shlin. You gambled, took a risk. You lost. Stop squirming.

You haven't done anything to help us all game, you lying mafioso.

You were nailed by Seireikhaan right away and have been covering your tracks ever since. Nice of you to drop by at this critical time to give your scummy defense.

Exposed, your position is. Death will come to you, as it comes to us all.

Askthepizzaguy

02-14-2009, 20:51

It won't be that easy, to put more weight on such (Imagine), compared to someone claiming to be the detective. It might be easier to prove TS' innocence, by lynching you and see if TS gets targeted by next night (at which town has nothing to prevent it, I believe)

He will not be targeted! He is the Godfather. EVERY SCUMBAG SHOWED UP TO DEFEND HIM!

shlin28

02-14-2009, 20:52

Why did 'khaan say I was innocent then?

*Tries to find the exact post*

:inquisitive:

Edit: Got it

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=2136045#post2136045

Sasaki Kojiro

02-14-2009, 20:53

I shouldn't have clicked view post but my curiosity got the better of me. Here:

I am making NO suggestions that Shlin is guilty. Au contraire, methinks he's completely innocent.

Tevash will die sometime before the end of the game, there's no rush and no harm in taking the time to evaluate his claim. It looks pretty generic but we should give it time, that's the right play.

glyphz

02-14-2009, 20:54

He will not be targeted! He is the Godfather. EVERY SCUMBAG SHOWED UP TO DEFEND HIM!
If TS isn't dead by 2/3 nights, then undoubtedly there's a good reason to suspect him. Town should still have the #s to lynch him by then.
And if mafia deliberately does not target TS, then they are taking a very big risk.

edit: Also, in case TS is lying. The real detective (in case he's still alive) can still reveal himself later.
Am moving closer to place my vote against you again, Atpg.

shlin28

02-14-2009, 20:55

I find it mildly surprsing that Tevash's claim was dismissed so easily by ATPG, I mean, a detective is one of the few none thread based things we can do in this game to find the scum, yet he dismissed the potential help in a heartbeat? Anyone who have a semi-valid reveal should be kept alive, not be lynched immediately due to one persons's suspicons on him in the past.

Askthepizzaguy

02-14-2009, 20:57

I... but... what else could he have meant?

I am at a loss. Here, at the deciding moment of the game, I mess it all up.

I don't know what to say. I can't believe this.

shlin28

02-14-2009, 20:57

It could just be a joke vote? It was the first round...

Askthepizzaguy

02-14-2009, 20:59

Very well. I have an idea.

Why don't we all, collectively, try to solve this case together.

Look at the factions. Supporters of me, supporters of TevashSzat. Those supporting me are doing so because I agreed to die in short order, and I'm trying my best.

Those who support Tevash, most of them, have been accused by me, and are VERY afraid to die. Were it not for this stupid, stupid last minute error, I could have wrapped it all up. But I admit I can no longer solve this alone.

I need your help. Give me a moment of your time and think with me.

Askthepizzaguy

02-14-2009, 21:03

I tore TevashSzat's defense to utter shreds earlier. Reenk has been correctly identified as someone who is voting someone he considers innocent, merely for opposing him. Reenk gave a defense filled with gaping holes.

Who is on the attack? Who is on the defense? If I die, life goes on for the rest of you. I need not defend myself.

Look who is acting based on fear, on panic, on defense. Look who has not been actively searching for suspects. Look at who fits all my scum indicators, look who is desperate for me to die THIS ROUND not next. Look who did not offer to die. Look and see.

If I die soon, that should be enough. Detective reveals happen in more than 50% of the games I analyzed, and they were mafia.

shlin28

02-14-2009, 21:04

I concur. This factionalism is getting stupid (Although I do stand by my decision to stand in Tevash's side of the argument)

Right now, I think we should at least give Tevash a chance. I'm sorry ATPG, but a chance of him being detective is better than nothing at all :bow:

Edit: There is no reason for anyone to really want to lynch you, I mean, a dead townie only means one less vote, so there shouldn't be anyone specifically targetting you.

seireikhaan

02-14-2009, 21:08

I personally feel no reason to be suspicious of Shlin, to be clear.

However, I have some rather severe reservations about the legitimacy of Tevash's claims to be detective.

Askthepizzaguy

02-14-2009, 21:09

There is a reason.

If I am right about Tevash, then his mafia buddies would all come forward, as they have, to defend him and dismiss everything I've done as "nonsense" and bad analysis. Repeat it over and over and it will convince you.

I predicted he'd reveal as the detective, too. If I am correct about Tevash, they have every reason in the world to want me dead, but more than that, they have every reason to want Tevash alive.

The panicking and hole-filled defenses should tell you something. The universal argument against me has been the same. The votes have been the same. The fact that I offered to die, put myself out there on the chopping block, did all this work, and have multiple dead people vouching my innocence...

Tevash only has his panicking defense and absurdly obvious reveal.

@Seireikhaan-

You can't say one way or another, but Ok... I may have been wrong about Shlin. But I still think YOU are the detective. That's why there have been no counter-reveals.

Sasaki Kojiro

02-14-2009, 21:14

I personally feel no reason to be suspicious of Shlin, to be clear.

However, I have some rather severe reservations about the legitimacy of Tevash's claims to be detective.

Sure, that's understandable, I don't think anyone is convinced. But surely you can explain your hints from the previous day more clearly?

We also don't know what this games twist is, and it's rash to jump to conclusions before we do.

Askthepizzaguy

02-14-2009, 21:15

It doesn't matter, you know. Tevash is not the detective, and I doubt you will lynch him this round.

But this gambit will not work. Eventually, he will die, and the game will be over.

I am not sure why I should even bother taking this further. My concern is, after I am gone, and you believe what Tevash says is gospel, he will mislead you all directly into a ditch.

I said it before, and I will say it again. It's OK to lynch me. But I will be :daisy: if I won't state my case against him, because I know for a fact my allegiance and it is town, and I can get a lot of people to vouch for that.

Quintus.JC

02-14-2009, 21:16

Sorry ATPG, but I'm willing to let Tevash live beyond this round. Should his reveal be false; then he is only delaying his inevitable death, the town will lynch him very, very soon. And if he is indeed pro-town, at least we can make use of him, providing the mafia decides to let him live, which I sincerely doubt they would if Tevash was telling the truth about being detective.

Tevash can't help us after death (if he is indeed detective).
You (APTG) on the other hand, can continue to help us post-mortomly.

Askthepizzaguy

02-14-2009, 21:19

....

I have nothing on my side that can convince you I am town, and that tevash is guilty, beyond his amazingly bland townie play, and amazingly horrendous defense of himself.

That said, I have considered my options.

I could vote myself. But that won't convince you. And if I die, things will be all right. The mafia have rallied to Tevash's aid, and the only gambit they can play is to murder Tevash themselves. After that, you have one more mafia to find, at best.

Otherwise, lynch him, and you will prove me correct.

If you want, I will change my vote to myself. Do you want me to do so?

GeneralHankerchief

02-14-2009, 21:19

Voting closed.

Askthepizzaguy

02-14-2009, 21:21

This is a difficult admission.

I could be wrong. And you're correct, if you don't know I am a townie, the odds are better if Tevash lives.

Unvote: TevashSzat
Vote: Askthepizzaguy.

Please consider my lynch method request.

EDIT: :daisy: a moment too late. It didn't get in before the deadline. And it was tied, I believe, so toss my vote out please.

Sasaki Kojiro

02-14-2009, 21:24

Voting closed.

Can we not delay another day? Maybe extend for an hour?

Askthepizzaguy

02-14-2009, 21:26

Boy I should have been paying attention to the tally.

I can't believe I almost did that. I thought for sure someone had changed their vote to me.

Because I was unable to convince you, I resigned myself to defeat. I have to remember to stop doing that.

Extend the round! Extend it one hour!

shlin28

02-14-2009, 21:33

Huh, so Tevash got lynched eh? (I think, I based it on the last posted tally and then added the vote onto it mentally...)

GeneralHankerchief

02-14-2009, 21:34

7-7 tie.

Next one to break it ends the round.

Askthepizzaguy

02-14-2009, 21:34

Wasn't it tied? I lost track of it in all the confusion.

I thought I was ahead at the end.

Askthepizzaguy

02-14-2009, 21:35

Unvote: TevashSzat
Vote: Askthepizzaguy.

There.

shlin28

02-14-2009, 21:35

:dizzy2:

I guess someone needs to change their vote/vote...

*waits patiently for the result*

GeneralHankerchief

02-14-2009, 21:35

Actually, just for the heck of it, this includes shlin.

-edit- nvm, ATPG ended it.

Askthepizzaguy

02-14-2009, 21:36

No, no, I got this one.

If I am wrong about Tevash, I deserve to die. And even though he is my TOP suspect, I like you, doubt myself too.

I demand the death I requested.

Askthepizzaguy, at 15:21 today, nearly did the most bone-headed move in all of mafia. At 15:35, that same move was made on purpose.

shlin28

02-14-2009, 21:38

So be it.

GH, could you use ATPG's lynch method over mine? I feel that he deserves this :bow:

seireikhaan

02-14-2009, 21:38

shlin28

02-14-2009, 21:40

Not this again ~:mecry:

As I said before: Either you revealed yourself to the mafia, or you were recruited but refused.

Apart from that, I got nothing.

:sweatdrop:

Edit: Aimed at Khaan

Askthepizzaguy

02-14-2009, 21:41

Oh, the Wine in front of me.

I will slap myself for this. I have said, repeatedly, never to vote yourself when you are innocent unless you have a very good reason. And I'm almost certain TevashSzat is a scumbag.

However. I am certain I could be wrong. And I am certain I am a non-role townie. As such, my role is to be a selfless soldier, defending town from anyone, and anything.

Including myself.

Face facts: You would not have voted Tevash over me. And this is no gambit, I frankly don't expect you to believe that this proves me to be a townie. I don't care.

What I care about is that you win the game, whatever the cost. I offered you my head, and now you shall have it.

Sasaki Kojiro

02-14-2009, 21:41

Well, hypothetically, as mafia I could be dumb. Other than that, I'd kill you if you'd hidden a detective result in your posts that pointed to me or my buddies. But we can't find it...can you at least say if there IS something encoded in those 5 posts? Something to do with capital letters maybe?

seireikhaan

02-14-2009, 21:44

Nothing's hidden.

Reenk Roink

02-14-2009, 21:44

Please blast this at the execution (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89JDDxYVY2E). :laugh4:

Sorry Atpg, just trying to lighten the mood. :smiley:

Askthepizzaguy

02-14-2009, 21:45

Tevash and Reenk are most likely scum. I believe Shlin28 needs to be de-throned in a manner most unpleasant as well.

Remember this voting round, and who behaved in what manner. TevashSzat will begin convincing you my supporters, or those on the sidelines, are scumbags.

Tevash will clear everyone who supported him.

GeneralHankerchief

02-14-2009, 21:54

Okay, to be totally honest I have no idea what ATPG's desired lynch method is. If somebody could remind me within the next couple of minutes that'd be great. :yes:

Askthepizzaguy

02-14-2009, 21:56

Beaten to death with rubber chickens.

shlin28

02-14-2009, 21:59

:laugh4:

That is so much better than my planned execution!

Askthepizzaguy

02-14-2009, 22:08

So, tell me fellows, ye supporters of TevashSzat:

Explain what motives one might have for spending as much time on the game as I have so far, only to be the deciding vote on myself. The deciding vote on Lord Winter. The way I spared my top suspect for another round, as you refused to do. There are only two options: I was a henchman, or I was town the whole time.

So, that means I must have personally destroyed two mafia, as a mafia, leaving only the Godfather remaining. Brilliant move. On the other hand, since I am a townie and always was, what motives might I have had for allowing TevashSzat his time to investigate? On the off chance I am wrong, he needs to live, for one. Mafia will kill him if he's a townie, or if he's not the Godfather and there was another henchman still alive. Secondly, I seriously doubt he will survive the game, so my wish that he dies will be fulfilled.

I will be ever so pleased when you decide to join me in the afterlife. In the end, I made the selfless move that allowed for the possibility that I could be wrong. So any mistakes I have made, all game, have now been wiped clean, and you have mafia running scared.

Enjoy the rest of the game. By the way, just why were my suspects sweating so much?

FoS: Reenk Roink, TevashSzat, Shlin28, Sasaki Kojiro. Among these, you will find your mafia.

I am off to enjoy my date with my girlfriend now. Have fun!

GeneralHankerchief

02-14-2009, 22:16

Day 5

Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah "tie vote" blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah much finger-pointing, yelling, and screaming blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah TevashSzat stepped forward and declared he was the Detective blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah Chief of Police shlin28 called an end blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

Blah blah blah blah blah "Askthepizzaguy, you're guilty. Get up here." blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

Askthepizzaguy came up and gave his final execution speech, which was as follows:

"Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah."

*inhale*

*exhale*

*inhale*

"Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah."

By this point everyone had fallen asleep, and sadly not even ATPG's screams of terror as he was beaten to death by rubber chickens could rouse the crowd. shlin, disgusted, kicked everybody in the crowd and told everybody to go home.

Day 5a tally:

Askthepizzaguy: 8 (Sasaki Kojiro, Reenk Roink, White_eyes:D, TevashSzat, Beefy187, Seamus Fermanagh, Andres, Askthepizzaguy) :skull:
TevashSzat: 6 (Ignoramus, taka, Psychonaut, YLC, Chaotix27, glyphz)

Abstained: 4 (shlin28, Gaius Scribonius Curio, 777Ares777, Quintus.JC)
Didn't vote: 1 (LittleGrizzly)

~~~~~~~~~~~~

Still alive: (18)
shlin28
YLC
777Ares777
Andres
TevashSzat
Quintus.JC
Rythmic
White_eyes:D
Chaotix27
Reenk Roink
glyphz
187Beefyz
taka
Seamus Fermanagh
LittleGrizzly
Gaius Scribonius Curio
Ignoramus
Sasaki Kojiro

Killed:
Tratorix
CountArach
seireikhaan
boudica
TinCow
Jolt

Executed:
Ichigo
Lord Winter
Sigurd
Askthepizzaguy

~~~~~~~~~~~

A very long, entertaining, tense, and exhausting round folks. Let's all keep in mind that it's just a game and enjoy ourselves for the remainder of it. :yes:

Askthepizzaguy

02-14-2009, 22:18

:grin:

Happy Valentine's Day, everyone!

And remember, it is just a game. I am having delightful fun, and I encourage you all to do so. Just nail the scumbags and I can rest in peace.

Blah blah blah blah... *bludgeoned to death by rubber chickens*

Dead.

Sasaki Kojiro

02-14-2009, 22:23

By my count we have 7 lynches...good odds.

glyphz

02-14-2009, 22:24

A very long, entertaining, tense, and exhausting round folks. Let's all keep in mind that it's just a game and enjoy ourselves for the remainder of it. :yes::burnout:
Hear, hear...
:Zzzz:

:balloon::sweetheart::balloon:

TinCow

02-14-2009, 22:30

Never thought I'd say this, but I was glad to be dead for that round.

Askthepizzaguy

02-14-2009, 22:30

:mellow:

I shall enjoy watching this unfold. Don't blindly trust TevashSzat, fellows. So many mafia have revealed as detective, especially under such pressure, in so many games.

It's going to be an agonizingly long endgame for the mafia. :smash: I am curious to see how they pull this one off. Watching them squirm will be a delight.

:grin:

Sasaki Kojiro

02-14-2009, 22:41

Nothing's hidden.

Nothing is in the open either??

Vote: Shlin28

For invoking the execution method of Evil.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TevashSzat https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/sdojo/buttons/viewpost.gif (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=2127387#post2127387)
Your idea seems very promising. Does anyone here know who in the game speaks English as their first/primary language. I spose that may be useful later on

Well, I do... But the last time I tried (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=1546154#post1546154) to analyze writeups on this sort of thing, the mafia (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1574222&postcount=1470) won. https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/smilies/gc/gc-smash.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by CountArach https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/sdojo/buttons/viewpost.gif (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=2127400#post2127400)
I do believe I have died that way once. Certainly I have gone out while having sex with a prostitute.

Death by prostitute (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=1494040#post1494040)

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/smilies/gc/gc-wall.gif

I leave you folks alone for 8 hours and I come back to this? Dear lord...

Vote: Ichigo

Sorry, my man, but its not a choice I like making...

And never mind that a pair of lurkers achieved Total Victory in Chicago...

TinCow

02-14-2009, 22:48

Alright, Sasaki, let me show my point via a question: Hypothetically(and I'm not saying you are), if you were a mafioso, what would it take for you to kill me in the second round?

Please bare in mind, the vast majority of people playing in this game have, most recently, experienced me as a near psychopath bent upon town destruction 75% of the time in the last few months. I've not been killed early on in... well, honestly, I can't remember the last time. 'Cause I'm total lynch bait.

I think this is poor reasoning. You seem to be assuming that you were killed because you were on to something. Well, I'm lynch bait as well, and they also offed me. Does that mean I was on to something? Offing people like us makes a lot of sense in this game due to the hand-picked Grunts situation. In this game, the people who are usually lynch bait are the ones least likely to be picked as grunts. Thus, they're also less useful for the mafia to keep alive. At least that's how I see it.

shlin28

02-14-2009, 22:50

Okay, this is kinda a long winded way to solve Khaan's conundrum, but thats the only thing I can think of... so...

Well, I do... But the last time I tried (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=1546154#post1546154) to analyze writeups on this sort of thing, the mafia (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1574222&postcount=1470) won. :smash:

Khaan asked both Andres and Sasaki to "suppose" what they would do to kill Khaan if they are mafia... and in thse two links quoted here, the only two people mentioned there and is also in this game is... Andres and Sasaki.

Strange? Yes. Possible? Unlikely. Is it at least an attempt to solve this? HELL YEAH!

Sasaki Kojiro

02-14-2009, 22:52

I think this is poor reasoning. You seem to be assuming that you were killed because you were on to something. Well, I'm lynch bait as well, and they also offed me. Does that mean I was on to something? Offing people like us makes a lot of sense in this game due to the hand-picked Grunts situation. In this game, the people who are usually lynch bait are the ones least likely to be picked as grunts. Thus, they're also less useful for the mafia to keep alive. At least that's how I see it.

I agree--if he wasn't a detective or role of some kind then there's nothing much we can learn from his posts. I've been knocked off early before back when I got lynched all the time too.

Thermal

02-15-2009, 00:01

With ATPG's self vote i am more or less convinced he was innocent, when it could have gone either way otherwise, tevash is hard to work out, overall I would say that is the most times my vote has been poised to sway, I really was on tevash's side at one point, to ATPG's on another, with tevash's inevitable death (no matter what happens) hopefully that little box of mystery will close off soon, leaving IMO the other suspicious guys, other than those ATPG lists, Taka as he lurked on a game previous, just to be mafia, Ignoramus always lurks supposedly, but still someone to look out for....

Also with Tincow's attempt at song analysis i hope that doesn't put me next in line for death. :skull:

Beefy187

02-15-2009, 00:43

:laugh4:

Note: I CAN ONLY BE A GODFATHER OR TOWNIE! If I was a grunt and tried to be the CoP, I would be found out and lynched so fast before I can think of a decent lynch method.

Why would, if I was a grunt, I take such a risk and try to become CoP?

Godfather is still a mafia. If your a God Father, there is more then enough benefits for your self to become CoP.

Seeing as Tevash revealed, doesn't matter how scummy it is. He might be a detective and I think thats enough reason to keep him alive for now unless someone ales claims detective.

White_eyes:D

02-15-2009, 05:28

Seamus Fermanagh

02-15-2009, 06:52

I have been thinking....what do we do if the grunts are already dead??? (unlikely, but possible....)
then a detective would be worthless....unless, after all grunts are dead....we can get a "guilty result":yes:

Its a possibility, but ultimately doesn't change anything. The Godfather cannot be found out by investigation or what-not. Only through participation and interaction. That's why, in a Godfather game, I actually do get annoyed at lurking. In most games, they just get wogged out, but here, lurkers are great cover for a GF.

Pizza: I'd guess your probably innocent since you aced yourself without reason to do so. I too have my qualms about Tev's reveal. However, as is traditional, the revealed "detective" must provide results and get things correct or he ends up as laserine shark food.

seireikhaan

02-15-2009, 07:25

Oh...

What an absolute PITY you couldn't make it back in time to offer your thoughts before they lynch, eh Seamus?

Sasaki Kojiro

02-15-2009, 08:27

khaan you have a responsability here. If you aren't the detective, don't imply that you are. You being the detective doesn't jive with your comments about seamus--or at least not with you having a guilty result on him. You seem to be saying that something regarding the kills reminds you of seamus when he was your mafia buddy in cosa nuova II, and your mentioning that is why you were killed. That's not solid evidence though.

Askthepizzaguy

02-15-2009, 10:06

Right. Well, I have a little deduction for you.

Ready?

I believe Tevash (sorry on behalf of the town it came to this).

Please please please try to investigate Seamus as soon as night comes. I don't know if GH is still doing the realism thing but if your order goes in before the Mafia you will get your result sooner. I think Seamus is a bad guy, let's see if he's a grunt or not. :bow:
And then:

Askthepizzaguy: 8 (Sasaki Kojiro, Reenk Roink, White_eyes:D, TevashSzat, Beefy187, Seamus Fermanagh, Andres, Askthepizzaguy)
TevashSzat: 6 (Ignoramus, taka, Psychonaut, YLC, Chaotix27, glyphz)

Tell me, TevashSzat, Reenk Roink, Sasaki Kojiro, Shlin28... any of you who can answer this one. This one is most puzzling. So, you folks who voted me thought I was guilty, correct?

So, tell me... why would my mafia partner vote for me? Why would Seamus vote for me, on this close, deciding vote? Why didn't he switch to Tevash? Why didn't I keep my vote on Tevash?

Why would you, Reenk, suggest that Seamus is the most likely candidate to be my mafia partner?

You folks who voted me cannot be my mafia partner. I was never mafia. Seamus was just a little slow to realize my alignment, that's all... and he wanted to survive just a little bit longer. I deduce the mafia are still looking for the investigator, and they believe it's Seamus Fermanagh. That's why, for no reason at all, and with logic that would blind an eyeless fish, he decided Seamus was the guilty party.

Seamus will die tonight or tomorrow morning, if the mafia have their way. The only part that confuses me is why Seamus didn't counter-reveal... could he be looking for the other suspects? It's a shame he's not here to confirm my conclusion, and gosh I am sorry if I am wrong.

:wall:

Once you're dead, you cannot reveal yourself, Seamus. I obviously could not solve Seireikhaan's clues, or else I would have concluded my case against my opponent earlier when I was still alive. Pity I was slow on the uptake.

Seireikhaan is obviously forced into virtual silence on this matter. Why is that? Even though he cannot speak what's on his mind, his silence speaks volumes more than his actual clues did for me. I still cannot exhaustively conclude this scenario is the correct one based on his clues. There is still much speculation and room for error.

But I do know this: Reenk Roink knows darn well that my mafia partner would have saved my butt and lynched TevashSzat instead. So the fact that he'd announce his desire to see Seamus' life ended in any way, shape, or form can lead to only one conclusion that I can see.

Reenk Roink doesn't believe I was guilty. Reenk Roink doesn't believe Seamus is guilty. But he wanted both of us dead, to spare TevashSzat.

Either refute this logic, or I call game... set... match. Only this time, I don't think I messed it up.

CountArach

02-15-2009, 10:27

Not to everyone: I am re-reading this entire thread from beginning to end. Expect some analysis when I am done... probably in a number of hours.

Askthepizzaguy

02-15-2009, 10:29

Thank you, CountArach.

I encourage all the dead people to show up. There's going to be an army of torch-wielding, axe-carrying zombies on your doorstep very shortly, you mafia scum. Good luck killing all of us.

Its a possibility, but ultimately doesn't change anything. The Godfather cannot be found out by investigation or what-not. Only through participation and interaction. That's why, in a Godfather game, I actually do get annoyed at lurking. In most games, they just get wogged out, but here, lurkers are great cover for a GF.

Pizza: I'd guess your probably innocent since you aced yourself without reason to do so. I too have my qualms about Tev's reveal. However, as is traditional, the revealed "detective" must provide results and get things correct or he ends up as laserine shark food.

The jig is up, Seamus. Reenk already stated his desire to "investigate" you. Tevash will find you guilty or find you dead, maybe even both.

I believe, according to the rules, once you're dead you can't confirm or deny it. It's better to say so now, because I have reason to believe you are very, very dead, very, very soon.

Askthepizzaguy

02-15-2009, 10:32

Deleted, sorry double post.

Was trying to edit, not post again.

shlin28

02-15-2009, 10:48

Askthepizzaguy

02-15-2009, 10:55

Er... how is Seamus the detective? How would you know that? :embarassed:

I get the first part about RR's accusation of Seamus, I totally agree with you on that one (NOTE: I am not in communications with anybody on my "side" as it were, so I have no idea why he accused Seamus). But then you went on to say Seamus is a detective? isn't revealing it in the thread... if it was true, a teeny tiny dangerous?

:help:

I DONT KNOW THAT! I DONT KNOW ANYTHING!!! All I can be sure of is my own innocence, and my lack of a role. I also have deduction on my side. Seamus is partly responsible for my death. I am totally responsible for my death. I am responsible for Lord Winter's death, and we've had one murder every night since then. No mafioso would vote for his partner when he could KILL THE INVESTIGATOR!!!!

Reenk made a terrible mistake, and I deduced based on his horrible, absolutely horrendous townie logic, that he doesn't actually think either of us are guilty. I know that his defense was atrocious, as was TevashSzat's. I know all the mafia supported Tevash, because they EASILY could have killed me at any time via vote if there were more of them hiding in the wings! WHAT ARE THE OTHER POSSIBLE CONCLUSIONS??? Answer me that, and we can have a civilized discussion again. Prove me wrong, and I'll shut up for a good long time.

Let's say Seamus WAS my mafia partner. The jig is up! He's totally going to die! I could have kept my mouth shut! Now, Shlin, what do you have to say?

shlin28

02-15-2009, 11:03

Its kinda a valid strategy to NOT vote for the investigator in the day, but vote for the other guy, and then kill the detective in the night. That way = less suspicions.

Anyway, at that stage at the game I believe Tevash was winning the vote, so you could had your mafia partner to vote you as you were quite safely behind Tevash.

:bow:

Askthepizzaguy

02-15-2009, 11:05

Askthepizzaguy

02-15-2009, 11:13

You aren't listening to me. So what if Tevash or I were temporarily in the lead at any point? If I am the mafia, my partner voted for me, and I killed a fellow mafioso. Why do you keep insisting on concluding everything besides the most obvious answer?

Why do you conclude that if you flip a coin, it will fly off into space or turn into a brain-eating marshmallow, instead of landing heads or tails?

It didn't land on tails. What is the other most likely answer?

Cue the jeopardy music. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXGhvoekY44)

If you don't reach the correct conclusion soon, your alignment will be revealed.

_____________

Edit: While I am being talkative, here's an update on the post count:

Gray = Dead

Askthepizzaguy 148
Sasaki Kojiro 80
GeneralHankerchief 64
Beefy187 61
TinCow 51
777Ares777 47
Andres 47
shlin28 44
seireikhaan 41
YLC 37
White_eyes:D 34
LittleGrizzly 32
Reenk Roink 30 - Clearly wants townies dead.
Seamus Fermanagh 29 - Who Reenk wants dead, who voted for me.
Psychonaut 24
Quintus.JC 24
TevashSzat 18 - Suspect Detective reveal.
Gaius Scribonius Curio 17
Lord Winter 17
Chaotix27 16
glyphz 16
CountArach 15
Sigurd 14
boudica 13
Jolt 13
Tratorix 9
taka 8
Ichigo 8
Ignoramus 4

shlin28

02-15-2009, 11:23

Sorry, was having breakfast.

You were probably NOT guilty, but it was either you (Either guilty, or a townie) or Tevash (Either guilty, detective or a townie)

Now, who would you lynch? You of course. You were simply the guiltier of the two, plus Tevash may genuinely have a chance of actually being detective...

Also, as I said before, just because Seamus voted for you over a supposed detective is not a proof of not being mafia, as a mafia would will kill the detective in the night, not during the day.

PS: Did anyone actually read my post about my crazy answer to SK's clues?

Edit: Spellings

Askthepizzaguy

02-15-2009, 11:25

So, to be sure I understand you:

It's heads, I was mafia, tails, I was mafia.

:applause:

shlin28

02-15-2009, 11:28

You don't understand... we HAVE to lynch either you or Tevash. So we went with the slightly better option of lynching you (even if you are innocent) than getting rid of potentially one of our most powerful power rules.

:bow:

Askthepizzaguy

02-15-2009, 11:32

And the scummy detective reveal, which cleared Shlin28, Sasaki Kojiro, and YLC (even though he didn't stand up for YLC at all) didn't strike you as odd?

I love how he missed a day, too. Suuuuuure, he just forgot to send it in.

I predicted he'd reveal as detective. And he's no detective.

Those who supported me are innocent, but by all means TevashSzat, investigate them. If you were actually innocent, maybe you would investigate the people who supported you... oh wait, you already did and proved them innocent, how convenient. How serendipitous. How extraordinarily coincidental. How delightfully cosmic. How amusing. The stars must have aligned ever so delightfully for you to have "just happened" to investigate the very people I'm accusing. You must be psychic. You must be able to see into the future. You must have incredible telepathic powers which greatly overpower mine.

You must be desperate beyond imagination. :grin:

There will be egg on my face if I am wrong, but the evidence is so extraordinary that you're a scumbag, I won't believe you're innocent until the game is over and there was a townie victory.

shlin28

02-15-2009, 11:38

Any detective worth his salt would investigate the people anyway:

shlin28 - CoPs must be investigated
Sasaki - Too good at this game...must be investigated
YLC - well.. er... he's pretty good I guess, plus in the thread he was behaving really weirdly (even before his whole vote himself thing)

So yeah, those three investigations were quite valid (if they were true), people don't have to be psychic to choose to investigate those three.

:bow:

Askthepizzaguy

02-15-2009, 11:42

Now this is a bit strange......Before YLC's self vote, Sigurd had 3 votes on him while YLC only had 1 which was from Sigurd.

A productive and useful townie would actually make a case towards a defence. Trying to state that you're getting really busy so just lynch me is a bad idea since the town would be wasting a lynch and you could just go get WOGed later on if your activity stays truly low....

Also, just because you were lynched doesn't mean that you're innocent. Don't try to say the mafiosos won't do so because that just leads to WIFOM.

Anyways, I will Vote:YLC for now.

Edit: updating tally

Tally:

Sigurd: 3 (Sasaki, Andres, Seamus)
YLC: 3 (Tevash, Sigurd, YLC)

Glyphz: 1 (Chaotix)
Taka: 1 (Beefy)

_______Ready?________

Day 4 tally:

Sigurd: 6 (Andres, Sasaki Kojiro, Gaius Scribonius Curio, glyphz, taka, Reenk Roink) :skull:
YLC: 5 (Quintus.JC, Chaotix27, TevashSzat, YLC, Ignoramus)
Jolt: 1 (LittleGrizzly)
taka: 1 (Psychonaut)
Reenk Roink: 1 (Sigurd)
Psychonaut: 1 (Seamus Fermanagh)
LittleGrizzly: 1 (Jolt)
Ignoramus: 1 (Askthepizzaguy)

Abstained: 3 (shlin28, 187Beefyz, White_eyes:D)
Didn't vote: 1 (777Ares777)

So, Tevash voted for someone he cleared via investigation, over Sigurd, someone he had not? Or how about anyone else in the game?

That makes a whole bucket of sense.

shlin28

02-15-2009, 11:45

Tevash investigated YLC on night 4, so his vote on Day 3 means nothing.

Askthepizzaguy

02-15-2009, 11:46

Uh huh. That was after his convenient "absence".

Let's see if his activity matches his story. Uno momento!

02-12-2009, 15:30 TevashSzat shows up, was silent all night, which ended at 13:39 that day. Missed it by that much. So, he shows up right at the beginning of the following day.

shlin28

02-15-2009, 11:53

Night 3 lasted from the 9th to the 10th, during this time he made two posts relatively early in the night phase. This does not prove or disprove his claims.

Beefy187

02-15-2009, 11:58

Fact that no one counter claimed it shows that either the real detective is already dead or Tevash is for real.

Since there is no one counter claiming, only option we got is give Tevash a day or two before he gets up on the chopping board again.

ULC

02-15-2009, 12:05

Believe, not believe? Does it even matter? I am truly apathetic to the town's situation as of right now, and as far as I care, every last one of you can take a long walk on a short pier. Right now, I am getting really sick of mafia games, the main reason is being called a liar - I am one of those people who take it very personally when they are called a liar, and the last few days have done nothing to improve my ability to handle that.

I refuse to read through this thread, which is filled with slander, anger, downright depressing amounts of antagonism. I refuse to help the town anymore in anyway shape or form. I refuse to vote one way or the on any matter, and I honestly hope the mafia win at this point, it would serve every last one of you right.

In short, I ask that I suicide before I continue on and say something that will not only ban me from the gameroom, but the Org as a whole, if I have not already.

Askthepizzaguy

02-15-2009, 12:11

02-11-2009, 14:00

Voting closed.

I'll start taking PMs now.
GeneralHankerchief ends the round 2-11-2009 at 1400 hours.

02-11-2009, 14:48
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=2134376#post2134376

Well....I'm always quiet in mafia games.

I don't post unless I have something relatively meaningful to contribute or I don't want to get WOGed. I usually don't have that great of an insight so most games I'm not that active....

IIRC, it said in the rules that you can only interact with people in the same location you're at.TevashSzat is online at 14:48. And playing mafia games. And he forgot to send in his "investigation" that night and didn't participate in the discussion that night.

02-11-2009, 17:11
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=2134530#post2134530

Well I have to play Concertino de la Camera for a competition next Saturday and I am not prepared at all.

Even worse, I have an accompanist practice in about 2 hours and I am not really ready......Now I think of it, I better go practice.....TevashSzat is online at 17:11 that night, and still just hanging around, couple hours later. Probably watching the events unfold in the Godfather game, but not commenting. Plenty of time to send in that investigation.

02-12-2009, 15:30

ATPG I am sorry that you are indeed quite wrong.....I am just a townie as always and here is my rebuttal to your analysis.

____________later___________

Sasaki made a good argument against YLC and want him to respond. Sigurd votes YLC as a pressure vote.

Now instead of YLC responding to an attack on him like myself, he votes for himself, which IMO, is incredibly scummy.

Quick question: Had I not responded like so and simply voted myself saying that oh there is no point in staying alive at all? Does that make me more or less scummy?

ATPG I must applaud you for your effort, but I seriously doubt your reasoning behind my supposed scumminess.

You claim that I voted for the CoP, tried to stop bad arguments and point out WIFOM beforehand, don't post a great deal, which is my normal behavior, and vote on a clearly scummy or at least, not very helpful townie.

I am ambivalent as to whether you are a mafioso with WAYYYYYY too much time on your hands or just a misguided townie. Your rather poor analysis and almost capricious choosing of scummy people, however, make me think that you will do little but distract the town's discussion.

Vote: ATPG

Edit:

I strongly encourage people to actually read ATPG's analysis before just capriciously bandwagoning for whomever he deemed to be scummy.

Edit 2:

FOS: Quintus No comment regarding ATPG's analysis at all. Did you even read his analysis of me?And so he shows up the next day, just after the night phase ended, and says that YLC is still a suspect. Fine... but then what happens?

02-13-2009, 14:49

Okay, this is getting really really stupid here

FOS: Quintus.JC, YLC, Beefy187, Askthepizzaguy, Psychonaut

ATPG I love how you haven't answered my rebuttal AT ALL

I spent the time to go through your comments so shouldn't you?

Seriously, I REQUEST THAT EVERYONE WHO VOTES FOR ME ACTUALLY READS MY DEFENCE FIRST BEFORE JUMPING ONTO THE BANDWAGON

@Sasaki,

Thank you for actually reading over thingsAfter clearing YLC of suspicion via investigation, he points the FOS at YLC.

Yesterday, 11:01

Night 3: Alas, did not manage to get in my results in time. I don't know what I was thinking, but I didn't send it in early.

I disagree.

Askthepizzaguy

02-15-2009, 12:17

Post 801

Okay, I can't believe this has gone this far already, but as per the rules of GH, the Detective cannot reveal privately to anyone.

Thats right, guys, I am the Detective. Night 4: Investigated YLC due to the whole thing with him there

Results: Innocent. Meh, I still didn't know from then since he screamed scummy to me, but with ATPG's whole YLC thing I guess that explains it

Post 882

Okay, this is getting really really stupid here

FOS: Quintus.JC, YLC, Beefy187, Askthepizzaguy, Psychonaut

Your explanation for this apparent lack of rational thought processes? YLC, who basically committed suicide, is the GODFATHER???

:laugh4:

Tevash doesn't seem honest to me.

Askthepizzaguy

02-15-2009, 12:18

In short, I ask that I suicide before I continue on and say something that will not only ban me from the gameroom, but the Org as a whole, if I have no already.

Shhh... be nice, it is just a game. Please. You're my friend, don't do that.

Beefy187

02-15-2009, 12:20

I cannot quite say that I understand how you feel. But I used to get angry when I used to get lynched for what I do, especially when I did everything for the love of the town. I got in to few fights with my fellow players and I did concider punching the screen a couple times.. But mafia game is about lying. And I always found joy after confusion, some annoyence after the game.

As one of the player I feel responsible for making one of us feel like that. For that I want to apologize.

If you are truly leaving us then its your choice. But I will be miss you heaps.

Askthepizzaguy

02-15-2009, 12:22

Askthepizzaguy

02-15-2009, 12:27

Beefy187

02-15-2009, 12:28

Beefy, what do you think of Tevash pointing the FOS on YLC after he basically committed suicide and voted himself and nearly got lynched, and after Tevash already cleared him of suspicion with an "investigation", and after he had already revealed he was a "detective"?

Can anyone explain it? Tevash, do you have an explanation? Shlin? ANYONE?

By the way, Shlin, how was your breakfast? 20 minutes from sitting in front of the keyboard to sitting in front of the keyboard, you must have had reason to eat it up real fast!

My dinner was fantastic. Thanks for asking :no:

Voting for your self is considered suspecious. FoS is completely understandable.

As YLC didn't get lynched that night, I think it makes sense to investigate him as he did explain his motives. God Father is not likely to do a risky stunt that early in the game.

Askthepizzaguy

02-15-2009, 12:30

Why FOS someone you cleared via investigation, after revealing that you cleared them?

Only explanation is that Tevash thought YLC was the Godfather. YEAH. That's likely.

Beefy187

02-15-2009, 12:36

Im not Tevash so I cannot be sure what he meant by it.

But im guessing by not including YLC may have put Tevash in risk of night kill as it may somehow hint that he investigated YLC, there fore Tevash is innocent

Or for the safety of YLC as he is comfirmed innocent. Mafia should be killing those who are comfirmed innocent as it is impossible to get them lynched.

Or he just went copy paste everyone who voted for me (Tevash)..

And yes YLC has a possibility of being the God Father.

Askthepizzaguy

02-15-2009, 12:38

Beefy, he was here for several hours the night he supposedly forgot to investigate, playing mafia games. And he was here for a while between each post. And if he's the investigator, playing mafia games, active on this forum during the Godfather's NIGHT PHASE, not contributing to the DISCUSSION and not investigating ANYONE....

What is he?

Hey Shlin, I'm waiting to exhale. Any more scummy defenses of Tevash? Running out of excuses, eh?

Would anyone care to grab some torches and pitchforks? Oh, and go wake the other dead people. They deserve a share of the carcass.

Beefy187

02-15-2009, 12:46

shlin28

02-15-2009, 12:48

ATPG... Tevash investigated YLC on NIGHT 4, AFTER YLC got scummy, so what is this focus on Tevash's inactivity on the 3rd night? His vote for YLC on Day 3 were valid and quite sensible at the time, as he (claimed) he had no results at that moment. His actions afterwards... meh. It does seem odd, but it still does not detract from the fact that as he is a potential detective, he should not be lynched last day phase.

Why couldn't YLC be the Godfather anyway? Its a 1 in 28 chance, he is no more likely to not be a Godfather than me...

Anyhoo, got to go now, be back in 3-4 hours. I hope you'll still be online then ATPG! :smash:

Askthepizzaguy

02-15-2009, 12:54

Did he make any post in other section of the forum?

(Sorry if its in your wall of text. Like I told you on pm Im watching TV :laugh4:)

I personally am against posting during the night phases. As it gives out hint to the mafia who to kill.

Or he left the org on and was doing something ales.. Which is what I did yesterday..

Again. Its only theories

Yes, he made two. One 48 minutes after GH asked for NIGHT ACTIONS. Then, again, a few hours later. He's no detective.

I've proven that he lied about things.

He stood by and said nothing that night. He was here for hours and didn't send in his investigation. He was online when GeneralHankerchief asked for Pms. He could not have possibly missed it.

He FOS'ed someone he cleared as innocent, after revealing. His detective reveal was done under scummy circumstances. His defenses have been riddled with holes, his behavior prior to all that was entirely low-key and unhelpful.

There is no need to wait. TevashSzat is a liar, has poor reasoning, and could only have thought that YLC was the Godfather, which... duh... he cannot possibly be.

ATPG... Tevash investigated YLC on NIGHT 4, AFTER YLC got scummy, so what is this focus on Tevash's inactivity on the 3rd night? His vote for YLC on Day 3 were valid and quite sensible at the time, as he (claimed) he had no results at that moment. His actions afterwards... meh. It does seem odd, but it still does not detract from the fact that as he is a potential detective, he should not be lynched last day phase.

Why couldn't YLC be the Godfather anyway? Its a 1 in 28 chance, he is no more likely to not be a Godfather than me...

Anyhoo, got to go now, be back in 3-4 hours. I hope you'll still be online then ATPG! :smash:

Running away, eh? If I may quote Monty Python:

"You yellow :daisy:! Come back and take what's coming to you, I'll bite your legs off!"

:clown:

He wasn't INACTIVE night 3, he was LURKING and he claims he "forgot" to send in the investigation! His reveal came when he was about to die! He is FOS'ing people he declared innocent.

Beefy187

02-15-2009, 12:58

Askthepizzaguy

02-15-2009, 13:00

HAHAHAHA!!! Good one, Beefy.

YLC is totally, totally suicidal in this game. Seireikhaan has suggested we use our heads. Why don't we?

YLC is as much the Godfather as TevashSzat is the detective.

Beefy187

02-15-2009, 13:02

WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT FROM ME????

Warm hug for a poor fellow who had a lonely valentine :yes:

ULC

02-15-2009, 13:02

Sorry, I said I would not post again, so I am making a bit of a liar of myself for doing this but -

Suicide: YLC

So it's easy to find GH :bow:

Askthepizzaguy

02-15-2009, 13:04

Sorry, YLC... but isn't that illegal? You have to give a valid reason.

Please, buddy, I can do this myself. You HAVE performed magnificently this game. Allow me to finish off the scum, and you will be made a knight of the Pizza realm.

Askthepizzaguy

02-15-2009, 13:18

Warm hug for a poor fellow who had a lonely valentine :yes:

Sorry, but my body has been cold for several hours now. I can't give you warm hugs anymore. But, if you wish, you can kiss TevashSzat goodbye.

:laugh2:

Beefy187

02-15-2009, 13:39

Sorry, but my body has been cold for several hours now. I can't give you warm hugs anymore. But, if you wish, you can kiss TevashSzat goodbye.

:laugh2:

I might do that... We'll see how it goes tomorrow.. :beam:

Askthepizzaguy

02-15-2009, 13:42

Beefy187

02-15-2009, 13:50

Yesterday, 16:16
The round ended.

TevashSzat
Last Activity: Yesterday 22:34

No comment, Tevash? Nothing to add to the discussion at all? We already know you have a role. Why didn't you bother speaking to anyone about anything?

I sincerely hope the mafia decided to murder one of their own, if they still have the ability to do so.

Just before I go off. Your wasting your breath. Be patient and give them some time to show up. We got another 20 hour or so if my calculation is correct :smash:

White_eyes:D

02-15-2009, 13:51

Your getting carried away again.....:whip: ATPG you need to do this stuff during the day....I will not read THIS WALL OF TEXT during the night phase.....and I am sure the mods don't want to either.....man, your barking so much that I feel like we lynched a Mafia:whip:....at least wait till the day phase and then argue and convince...:smash:

Edit: and I have no idea why YLC just wants to kill himself:shrug:

Askthepizzaguy

02-15-2009, 13:53

:wall:

Fine. I'll be quiet.

I can't be here for the day phase, because that's later on tonight and I'm spending time with my girlfriend. Sorry I bothered.

I understand Seireikhaan's frustration like no other. :shame:

That said, I am still having fun, and if you ignore me, that's your business. Don't say I didn't warn you, or that I didn't try to help.

White_eyes:D

02-15-2009, 13:59