The Godfather, Part 3 [Concluded]

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Well, that means white_eyes was mafia if you believe the song title (no reason not too).

Beefy is the one to lynch.

[Reenk Roink]

Well at least they killed QJC, that being said, I suspect taka too now.

And how can I vote for Beefy seeing how I was sworn to protect him? :wall:

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Please see my earlier post. All 4 should provide a statement and then the dead -- not the lynched or vigilanted, should query. Mathematically, it is 3-1 in favor of the mafia, and only this last batch of responses may generate the right "1."

[Quintus.JC]

At least town got one more lynch, it was possible to end in a godfather win this very night if he had a grunt left.

If I were alive I'd vote for Beefy. Andres doesn't looks it, I don't think its Reenk as well. Taka has reasonable suspicion but I think Beefy is the best choice
right now.

Edit: my death scene appears to lack creativity... I wanted a glorious death :no:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Please see my earlier post. All 4 should provide a statement and then the dead -- not the lynched or vigilanted, should query. Mathematically, it is 3-1 in favor of the mafia, and only this last batch of responses may generate the right "1."

Generally what they have to say about the others is more interesting then what they have to say about themselves. Beefy was quite content to defend himself yesterday, but did you read his reason for voting quintus?

[taka]

hm...........

[Quintus.JC]

Been looking at Beefy's posts during the later stage.

Said he'd be inactive sometimes, reluctant to put the final vote, relatively cool under pressure. Plus other ordinary actions which could be easily turned into accusations...

How does ATPG do his wall of text analysis? :dizzy2:

[taka]

well its was very logical for mafia to kill quintus, since we all pretty much agree'd he was innocent, leaving the lynch baits alive.

i'm starting to get a feeling that andres might not be the GF after all, his attitude had been similar to that of chicago...

i'm still hoping that beefy isnt mafia, coz if he is then he's deffinately tricked me from start to finish. but im still gonna trust him

the only one left is reenk who i've always thought of as scummy, but not sure whether grunt or gf at the time

vote: reenk because he is the only one atm i'm thinking as scummy

[Quintus.JC]

the only one left is reenk who i've always thought of as scummy, but not sure whether grunt or gf at the time

vote: reenk because he is the only one atm i'm thinking as scummy

Well there is no grunt left alive, only the GF.

I don't think Reenk's the GF because of his gambling style of play that is extremely risky for the GF, more suited for a grunt. But it's Reenk, and I can only bow to his greatness if he was the GF all along.

The only person left alive that I'm convinced is town is Andres, Reenk is unlikely, Taka is a legitimate suspect while Beefy looks the most suspicious for me.

[Reenk Roink]

Vote: taka

Don't you dare sir... :brood:

So I've decided I will honor my pact with Beefy as I made it irrespective of his alignment. If you want him lynched then both Andres and taka will have to vote for him. I probably will not counter it however.

I am game for voting against Andres if it ever goes to that situation.

By voting for me, taka just made himself look a lot worse in my eyes, plus he opens himself to the retaliation! :charge:

[GeneralHankerchief]

In the event of a tie, something a little bit different will happen this time around.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

In the event of a tie, something a little bit different will happen this time around.

Tell us!

[GeneralHankerchief]

Something wonderful.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

"Wonderful," from the chap who started the murder sprees at this site, isn't necessarily a ringing endorsement......:laugh4:

Sasaki, I quite agree. My point was not that it would be the "key" component, but that it would start the ball rolling and, with prodding from the undisgraced dead, we'd see precisely the kind of interaction that you cited.

If we don't, this will be a sad finale for the town.

[Jolt]

Done. White_Eyes was mafia and everything is clear to me.

[Jolt]

I don't think its Andres:no:.....last time I lynched him in the end game=lurker victory:furious3:......Vote:taka.....because I am getting a feeling he is pulling the strings again...:inquisitive:


Unvote:taka Vote:Curio although curio has been around here....I don't think Andres is guilty...:shrug:


I think this was a wise choice. I watched with interest as Andres posted in multiple places on the Org after the sudden death period had expired, including this thread, without changing his own. He kept his vote on despite knowing that he could save himself instantly with a vote change and that by not changing his vote, he could be killed off immediately at the whims of one other player. If he is the Godfather, it would require absolutely immense levels of testicular fortitude to do this. I would have personally switched my own vote even if I was innocent. If there is more than one mafioso alive and Andres is just a grunt, then his bravery is far less worthy of praise, but if that's the case I think the game is pretty much lost anyway.

In any case, I think the above is a major point in Andres' favor.

Well, as it is basically confirmed that White_Eyes was indeed the Mafia, I shall only pick the small excerpt of the game to prove that Andres is the Godfather. As you can see, quite possibly, only White_eyes was the remaining grunt and he voted for taka in the pre-Sudden Death vote, and with the godfather being in terrible danger after sudden death began, Andres, being a person who until then had little reasons to be suspected about, couldn't suddenly unvote to save himself, as it would certainly raise some eyebrows. Instead, the deal was made for his grunt (Who had previously voiced his apparent suspicion and vote for taka) to unvote the man which previously he thought was Mafia for Curio, leaving one man out of his suspicions of being Mafia.
At that point in the game, I think it was rather suicidal for the grunt to be voting for the Godfather even in pre-Sudden Death, and he voted for the other to make sure Andres survived the Sudden Death. As such, with TinCow's post, one could see the greatness and innocence in Andres, since he quite altruisticly didn't save himself, rather letting his henchman do the work.
This was exactly my rationale behind my 100000 bet, and when I went to check who had unvoted to save Andres and found out that it was none other than White_Eyes himself, I have now 90% certainty that the Godfather is Andres. That being said, I'm not sure if TinCow is another Grunt, since he was killed by the Mafia, I doubt he is though.

Short and sweet: White_eyes (Grunt) voted for one candidate for lynching (Affirming Andres is townie), and since Andres (Godfather) was brought also forward to the sudden death with Curio, and with White_Eyes' vote already in one Sudden Death candidate, he decided to shift his vote to Curio so Andres would be saved (Continuing to affirm that Andres is innocent). The repeated sentences of White_Eyes, who was Mafia, trying to shift attention away from Andres is also a clear indicator that Andres is the Godfather. Lynch him and Town wins.

[Beefy187]

well its was very logical for mafia to kill quintus, since we all pretty much agree'd he was innocent, leaving the lynch baits alive.

i'm starting to get a feeling that andres might not be the GF after all, his attitude had been similar to that of chicago...

i'm still hoping that beefy isnt mafia, coz if he is then he's deffinately tricked me from start to finish. but im still gonna trust him

the only one left is reenk who i've always thought of as scummy, but not sure whether grunt or gf at the time

vote: reenk because he is the only one atm i'm thinking as scummy

Don't ever trust anyone in mafia. Thats one of the most important lessons I learned in mafia, and I learnt it hard way..

Evidence looks hard. Short write up suggests that someone without much confidence in grammer wrote it.

White_eyes seemed to have been a grunt. And we pretty much had the similer view on who is innocent and who is not.

That pretty much shouts out that I'm guilty. I don't deserve this. Your jobs as a townie should be to vote me right away and hang me.

Only plead I will make is that I know that I'm innocent. I screwed up.. I made my self look guilty on the last phase. For that I will apologize.

I'll vote Vote:Andres. And I don't expect anyone else to follow me but I think its Andres.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I suppose I should reread andres. His absence today is somewhat disturbing.

Haven't finished a read, but some points:

Jolt's theory has a problem, in that white_eyes breaking the tie doesn't necessarily implicate andres. White_eyes could simply have felt like making the decision himself. Would have to reread further to consider why. edit: curio was suspicious of andres. Jolt's point seems to make good sense, it's not conclusive though.

Second:


I believe Andres is one of the few townie like character left in my eyes, I have a terrible feeling about beefy

...

I'll pre-vote:beefy
if I don't get on in time, sorry

Why would andres have ares killed? This will require a much more detailed reread. Let's just say that wifom aside, in the endgame you want to have people alive who suspect other people and not you. Andres could have been trying to frame beefy, but is that really more useful than having someone alive who is going to vote for beefy because he thinks he's mafia? Edit: When you're going to have 6 alive the next day and you have 2 mafia left, one more vote on your side is a powerful thing. If we'd lynched a townie yesterday we'd have lost, if we lynch one today we lose. Now we had these 7 alive:

777Ares777
Andres
Quintus.JC
White_eyes:D
Reenk Roink
Beefy187
taka

If Andres is the GF, he would have killed someone who thought he was innocent, started the next round by voting for his partner, and the next night killed of quintus (who suspected beefy) instead of taka (who voted andres last round).

On the other hand, if beefy is the godfather, he killed off two people who were going to vote him.

Now you can say, "andres did that to frame beefy", but why bother? A frame is chancy and you already had a vote almost guaranteed.



That pretty much shouts out that I'm guilty. I don't deserve this. Your jobs as a townie should be to vote me right away and hang me.

Only plead I will make is that I know that I'm innocent. I screwed up.. I made my self look guilty on the last phase. For that I will apologize.

I'll vote Vote:Andres. And I don't expect anyone else to follow me but I think its Andres.

Just says "I'm guilty, but don't lynch me, lynch andres I'm not going to give a reason."


Hard not to second guess myself and I will do a deeper read, but for now I'd say definitely stick with beefy.

[Beefy187]

Just says "I'm guilty, but don't lynch me, lynch andres I'm not going to give a reason."




Pretty much:shame:

To be honest, I was going to vote for QJC again as he was the only shady player for me left.
I absolutely trust taka to be innocent, and I can't vote for Reenk who has been nice to me all game. Only option is Andres who I thought to be innocent, but his the only one I could think of.

[Thermal]

Players cannot avoid to do petty retaliation votes in the final round, vote for who you think is mafia, not they voted for me so I'm gonna OMGUS on them! because on the final round it can ruin everything!

[naut]

Hey Andres. ~:wave:

[taka]

i wish andres would come on and say something

[Beefy187]

I bet two green balloons that he'll show up and build a massive case against me.

Now back to watching Terminator..:beam:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I bet two green balloons that he'll show up and build a massive case against me.

Now back to watching Terminator..:beam:

If you think he's guilty, then why do you think he would vote you when taka and reenk already have votes on them?

[Jolt]

Now you can say, "andres did that to frame beefy", but why bother? A frame is chancy and you already had a vote almost guaranteed.

I return to the same point I used to build the case against Andres. I believe he's staking everything on how he is unsuspectable, thus he is making decisions that continually shift the blame from him. Just as he was not gonna vote to get rid of another player in Sudden Death (Decision that might draw attention), people might start to notice that those who said Andres was the godfather for whatever unfounded reason began dropping dead. As the reasons people gave for Andres being the godfather were rather badly based, Andres could claim the fact that he had said nothing to make people suspicious of him, which, taking into account that there were other flamboyant players in the game who unwillingly shifted attention to themselves, led to the majority of the town to leave him alone for the whole length of the game. Thus there was little to no reason for Andres to start killing those few people who said he was the godfather. They were a minority and relatively ignored.

EDIT: On the other hand, (presuming he is the godfather) beefy's tactic of wtfpwning everyone who was going to vote for him is extremely suspicious and rather suicidal for a final rounds Mafia behaviour with GF as single survivor. I'm not sure, but I think beefy is smarter than that.

[Beefy187]

Because if Andres votes for taka and Reenk, both of them are likely to go "wtf" and vote for Andres.

Its better for Andres to vote for me as he was suspecting me previous round and hope that taka and Reenk will change the vote on me after building up a convincing case.

taka and Reenk votes are dead lock. Its not going anywhere. Its going to be either me or Andres

[Askthepizzaguy]

Wow.
....Wow.


Me is very, very surprised. So, Reenk Roink's behavior, scummy as it was, is being largely ignored?

You're going to give him a pass on that last round's nonsense?

Living townies, discussion mode please. Talk to me. I am curious to hear your thoughts. Could we actually win this one?

[Beefy187]

I've decided to let Reenk go

Now you can go "beefy must be grunt and Reenk is god father" but mathematic shows that there is only a God Father left.

Reenk has been Reenk (suspicious) all game
taka has been lurking (suspicious) all game
Andres has been acting too town (suspicious) all game
Beefy has been... suspicious all game

Like the politicians there is no good ones out there.. We pick those who are better then others.

[Reenk Roink]

Atpg please do keep trying, you only serve to turn off attention and suspicion on me. :laugh4:

Give Andres some time guys, things do come up... :bow:

PS: All I know is that although I'm uncertain what the other three are, if you kill me the town loses the game, and that is certain.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Andres
Reenk Roink
Beefy187
taka

Should be simple, yes?


Andres-
If he's the Godfather, he pulled off the most brilliant performance EVER.
EVER!!! EVER IN THE HISTORY OF MAFIA GAMES!!! And therefore, I grant him the victory. He completely evaded my scum detectors all game, and he made a compelling case earlier. Listen, you deserve a pat on the back for fooling me all this time, if you were the Godfather. Well done, sir... you smelled like a townie to me most of the game. I just kind of questioned your Gaius Scribonius Curio move... and you seemed to be almost working together with Reenk, who I just cannot figure for a townie. So, it looked like he was protecting you.

Beefy187

As payment for all the times you have suffered a dumb, dumb, dumb lynching, I hereby grant YOU the victory, Beefy. Very coolly played, and you convinced ME you were a townie. You had all these people protecting you, which is an odd gambit to play if you were the Godfather. It made me wonder if we should lynch you anyway, just to tick them off. Whatever. Well done, sir... you smelled like a townie to me the whole time.

Taka

You lurky lurker, you... naughty naughty!
However. You know how suicidal it is to lurk in a game with me in it, especially after I showed you my files (before this game started). You risked DEATH all game long, with repeated accusations, threats, and whatnot. No one defended you all game, and that was brilliant. Look, if Taka is the Godfather, kudos, and have the victory, dangit! Well done, sir... you smelled like a townie to me the whole time, even though I said you should die for lurking. I figure that's the reason the mafia never killed you.

And as for Reenk Roink...

Your performance last round was bad, bad, bad townie behavior. If you were a townie, you should never do that. All that voting and unvoting, and you've been basically wrong all game as to who the scummy parties were. Your vehement defenses and your desire to eliminate your enemies is un-townie. SkyNet pointed all over you... and if there is no henchman, given your attitude, then you are objectively much, much scummier than Andres. And you should know better, you're a veteran, and you know how much this game means to all the townies. You can be the jokester and the prankster all you like, of course... just remember when it comes down to the wire, townies should work together with the other townies, not try to confuse them.

I refuse to let it drop on you. Everything you've done all game tells me that if town is going to die, you should go with them. But even more, everything I've seen in mafia games tells me that you are scum, and that you were a bit too obvious about it for comfort.

Sorry, pal... no hard feelings, it's just business. This zombie is very, very hungry for mafia blood, and you are the only living being left in town who can satisfy my craving for human flesh.

Shall we die together, Reenk?


FOS: REENK ROINK
Kill him! Kill him! Kill him! Good mafia or bad townie, he deserves death, and the other players deserve victory!!!

[Sasaki Kojiro]

EDIT: On the other hand, (presuming he is the godfather) beefy's tactic of wtfpwning everyone who was going to vote for him is extremely suspicious and rather suicidal for a final rounds Mafia behaviour with GF as single survivor. I'm not sure, but I think beefy is smarter than that.

But if he hadn't killed them they would be voting for him. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. If I was mafia, I would much rather eliminate those who are planning on voting me and then if questioned claim wifom. The death of ares and quintus certainly hasn't brought a lot of votes on beefy has it?

But my main case on beefy I laid out yesterday.

I just don't see Andres going for the "Kill my supporter, lynch my mafia partner" strategy when they probably could have won by both voting reenk.

Then we have last nights kill.


Andres doesn't strike as guilty to me, either does Taka. Reenk's behavouir deserves a lynch almost any round of the game, but at this stage it's getting too critical and you can't just lynch someone because they aren't helping, you have to lynch the mafia/GF.

Andres could have killed taka. This might have pointed to him, you say, and this is the same argument we've been having. A vote on your side is worth a theoritical two against you is what I say. But he also could have killed beefy. Beefy was voting qjc, and so would suspicion have fallen on qjc?

I guess what it comes down to is that to believe Andres is the GF you have to believe he made poor decisions with who to kill. Heck, Andres and WE could probably have gotten beefy or reenk lynched yesterday.

It's a choice between "Andres is an ultra tricky mafioso who put himself at risk multiple times and deliberately put himself in tough situations" and "Beefy is a mafioso who slipped under the radar most of the game and made night kills that would benefit him".

Beefy is the clear choice.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Atpg please do keep trying, you only serve to turn off attention and suspicion on me. :laugh4:

Give Andres some time guys, things do come up... :bow:

PS: All I know is that although I'm uncertain what the other three are, if you kill me the town loses the game, and that is certain.

I don't bother considering you a suspect just because it would be the best mafia victory ever if you pulled all these stunts as the godfather :laugh4:

[Reenk Roink]

I don't bother considering you a suspect just because it would be the best mafia victory ever if you pulled all these stunts as the godfather :laugh4:

We have to play games inside the game. :wink: I'll explain what I mean when this is done.



FOS: REENK ROINK
Kill him! Kill him! Kill him! Good mafia or bad townie, he deserves death, and the other players deserve victory!!!

Remember your little statement that you were happy I didn't have a vote Atpg? :laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:

Good thing you don't have a vote! :laugh4::laugh4: :beam: :smash:

[GeneralHankerchief]

:laugh4:

[Askthepizzaguy]

What will kill the town is if we have our votes divided. All the TOWNIES should agree on who to lynch, and all vote unanimously to kill the Godfather. Last round was a huge cluster of fudge, and we don't need a repeat of that.

OK? Andres, Taka, Beefy... uh... Reenk... I guess... IF YOU ARE GOING TO WIN, You must agree on who the Godfather is, because I can guarantee you one thing... whoever the Godfather is, will be part of the vote which lynches a townie. The Godfather will not have it tied at 1 vote per person, and if the townies leave it with their votes all over the place, guess what? One vote change, and the Godfather gets away. Just making sure it's clear. We failed to get the Godfather in all previous rounds, and this is the final round.

Everyone who is loyal to town needs to pick ONE candidate, and gamble on the other candidate's innocence. I say that you can cross off Taka just due to the sheer ballsiness of lurking so much and being near the chopping block and on the top of everyone's suspect list. So that leaves you with 3 remaining candidates. Reenk, out of those three, seems the scummiest, and on purpose too. So, if he wants to die so badly, let him. Andres did a good job, and Beefy is due. That's my assessment.

But townies... you have to do a unanimous vote. No ties. None of that nonsense...

UNITED WE STAND, DIVIDED WE FALL.

Reenk Roink's gotta go! Hey hey, ho ho! Reenk Roink has gotta go! Hey hey, ho ho! :smash: :smash:

:cheerleader: :cheerleader: :cheerleader: :cheerleader: :cheerleader: :cheerleader: :cheerleader: :cheerleader:


I'll even take all the blame if we lose.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I say we pick the top two suspects and tie the votes. Let's see what the "wonderful" thing GH has planned is. Possibly letting the dead vote? Or something newer, he's done that before.

[Reenk Roink]

I say we pick the top two suspects and tie the votes. Let's see what the "wonderful" thing GH has planned is. Possibly letting the dead vote? Or something newer, he's done that before.

I would agree and comply but I want to win now! :grin2:

[Askthepizzaguy]

No ties.

A vote change by the Godfather OBVIOUSLY ends the game in favor of the mafia in the event of a tie, and a last minute vote change.

Bad Sasaki.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

No ties.

A vote change by the Godfather OBVIOUSLY ends the game in favor of the mafia in the event of a tie.

Bad Sasaki.

Unless the godfather is one of those who has votes on him.

[Reenk Roink]

Ok Sasaki, I've reconsidered, tell me what to do! :smash: :laugh4: :beam:

[GeneralHankerchief]

I say we pick the top two suspects and tie the votes. Let's see what the "wonderful" thing GH has planned is. Possibly letting the dead vote? Or something newer, he's done that before.

Okay, yeah, it's letting the dead vote. I just wanted an excuse to throw in the "2010" quote.

[Reenk Roink]

Okay, yeah, it's letting the dead vote. I just wanted an excuse to throw in the "2010" quote.

Hmm, nevermind then! Not that I have anything against the dead in GENERAL voting, but I've had certain folks killed off for a reason, and I've finally found some joy in voting - when it is a select privilege. :2thumbsup::2thumbsup::2thumbsup:

[Askthepizzaguy]

Mmmkay....


Here it goes!


Candidate number 1: (voted by the Godfather, and Innocent townie number One)
Candidate number 2: (Voted by Innocent townie number Two, and Three)

In the last moments of the game:

The Godfather- Unvotes: Candidate number 1
Votes: Candidate number 2 (obviously it's not him)

And then:


Candidate number 2 dies with 3 votes, and the Godfather wins.


Town, listen to Sasaki and Reenk's good old plan to tie the votes, and you will... what's the word... can't remember. Oh yes... end up like ME.

DEAD.


NO TIES


Look at Sasaki and Reenk's plan to TIE THE VOTES.
Ahem. You know town loses when the Godfather changes his votes.
UNANIMOUS DECISION. ALL 3 TOWNIES MUST VOTE FOR ONE CANDIDATE.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

NO TIES[/SIZE]

Honestly I'd prefer it if we lynched beefy straight out but if that isn't an option we can do it democratically:

Andres 2 (Beefy, Reenk)
Beefy 2 (taka, Andres)

Tie. It fails if neither Andres or Beefy is the godfather (as you believe clearly). But putting three votes on someone fails if that one person isn't the godfather. Letting the dead vote would make for a dramatic ending and might even push this game over the 2k mark :2thumbsup:

It would also drastically improve the ratio of townies to mafia which should theoretically improve the towns odds.

[Beefy187]

If the God Father is indeed me, switching votes won't happen.

The deadline for the vote is 3 o clock in the morning for me. I got strict "Off the computer by 11" rule and I cannot be bothered to break it..

I think waiting for Andres sounds like a plan, although I got nothing planned so I'll stick around and talk to pizza guy

[Askthepizzaguy]

Sasaki...

You're a smart guy, and you know there is ZERO chance that the Godfather will allow the final vote here to end in a tie.

As such, I must ask the town to ignore you, as you once ignored me. :bow:

[Reenk Roink]

To have a tie, you will need all four remaining players to cooperate. This one will certainly not. :laugh4: :2thumbsup: :grin2: ~:grouphug: ~:flirt: :bow:

[Beefy187]

Would be funny if we end up on the 4 way tie on the final round

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'll never play this game again if you let the round end in a tie. :smash:

It is the equivalent of the entire town surrendering to the mafia, because the Godfather WILL change his vote, and you all will die.

[Reenk Roink]

I'll never play this game again if you let the round end in a tie. :smash:

It is the equivalent of the entire town surrendering to the mafia, because the Godfather WILL change his vote, and you all will die.

Oh come now Atpg, this is just being a bad sport with statements like these...

[Beefy187]

This is simply Mexican stand off. Who ever moves first will get bandwagon.

I don't think anyone will move until all four of us are here. At least I wont

[Askthepizzaguy]

Oh come now Atpg, this is just being a bad sport with statements like these...

No, no Reenk! :laugh4:

I am simply trying to highlight a very, very simple fact: It is IMPOSSIBLE to lynch the Godfather this round without at least 2 votes. And the Godfather can escape by tying the vote with the remaining voter.

If the town wants to WIN this round, ALL TOWNIES MUST VOTE THE SAME WAY. It's a mathematical fact.

I will say it over and over until GH tosses me out of the thread, or the discussion about a tie ends, as is my prerogative.

I refuse to let the town commit suicide. Choose the wrong person to lynch, now that's fine and dandy. But I will be darned to heck if I will allow my fellow townies to point the gun and their own head and pull the trigger ON PURPOSE.

[Reenk Roink]

Well not that but saying you'll never play again if the group takes a certain action? :inquisitive: The game would miss you...

[Beefy187]

I understand what you mean ATPG. But we can't vote for the same person until all of us are here, and understands exactly who to vote.

Andres isn't around, taka haven't seen what happened in the last few hours. We sit tight until we are confident that we catch the right man. Until then no one should move.

[Beefy187]

I refuse to let the town commit suicide. Choose the wrong person to lynch, now that's fine and dandy. But I will be darned to heck if I will allow my fellow townies to point the gun and their own head and pull the trigger ON PURPOSE.

Then they'll be replaced by GH. We aren't allowed to suicide remember? :clown:

[Askthepizzaguy]

Well not that but saying you'll never play again if the group takes a certain action? :inquisitive: The game would miss you...

Reenk Roink:

After all the work I put into this game, it is my final dying request, that if you are going to try to lynch the Godfather, you all agree beforehand, and put 3 votes on him. To do otherwise is to allow the Godfather to win, and I feel that slightly dishonors all the people who did their best to win.

If you prefer, I offer a third alternative:

Happily Ever After.

We all agree that there will be no lynching today, no murder tonight, and we all walk away with the victory, together.

You want sportsmanship, Reenk, I say you earned it, but darn it, town deserves a piece of the pie as well. This game was epic enough, that I would be happy with a draw.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Yeah, but I wouldn't be. And my opinion matters more than the collective weight of yours'. :tongue:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Hello.

Let's say player A is the godfather. We tie up the vote like so:

Player A: 2 (B, C)
Player B: 2 (A, D)

If the godfather switches his vote at the last minute he will be lynched.


*****


To have a tie, you will need all four remaining players to cooperate. This one will certainly not.

It'll be fun! Come on! :jumping:

Besides, all we have to do is put two on beefy and one on someone else, and in that case you have to either tie it or let beefy die.

[Reenk Roink]

The win and loss is honestly meaningless at this stage. Would anyone seriously consider the Godfather's play any less magnificent if he ended up losing in the final round? I at least wouldn't, not at all.

Nobody deserves anything but fun Atpg. The work done in this game shouldn't be for the purpose of winning alone, that should be less than 1% of the reason in my view. The over 99% I play these games and think on them and write up posts is to laugh and enjoy.

The ride is a lot more important than the destination.

Just my perspective on some things... :bow:

[Askthepizzaguy]

Hello.

Let's say player A is the godfather. We tie up the vote like so:

Player A: 2 (B, C)
Player B: 2 (A, D)

If the godfather switches his vote at the last minute he will be lynched.


*****



It'll be fun! Come on! :jumping:

Besides, all we have to do is put two on beefy and one on someone else, and in that case you have to either tie it or let beefy die.


No deal, Sasaki. (If my opinion matters)

Not only does it risk everything on the notion that we have to put two votes on the Godfather, but I believe you tagged the wrong person as the Godfather, maybe even on purpose.

If GH won't want a draw for a result of this game, then I say there shouldn't be a tie. It's too much of a gamble, and it's a bad one.


@Reenk Roink,

Oh I agree... but if we aren't at least putting in a little effort to win, there's no point in devising strategies and thinking about our votes.

If we are going to have a game, yes fun comes first, but we should still play to win as well. I already offered a draw as a possible outcome, which proves I don't care about winning, just about having a fun outcome, but GH won't allow it, so...

Town's best strategy is to avoid the tie. That's a bad idea, it's all I am saying. And like I said, if town isn't sure it's Reenk Roink, put 3 votes on anyone else, I don't really care. I know who I would pick, but I voted for myself in round 5, thereby taking away my ability to vote.

All I am asking is for town to follow a sane endgame strategy, nothing more. :bow:

[Beefy187]

You can't get a draw ATPG. You don't understand mafia. They are greedy creatures. They want the whole pie for them selves.

So the points that you are trying to make ATPG is basically that if its a 2-2 tie situation or 1-1-1-1 four way tie situation, mafia is able to switch their votes and get their victory yes?

What I am trying to say and probably what others are trying to say is that we can't get a 3-1 situation happening unless all of us are here and decides on who to vote for.

So we are on the same foot in terms of concepts. Its just the matter of timing that we are different in

[Beefy187]

No deal, Sasaki. (If my opinion matters)

Not only does it risk everything on the notion that we have to put two votes on the Godfather, but I believe you tagged the wrong person as the Godfather, maybe even on purpose.

If GH won't want a draw for a result of this game, then I say there shouldn't be a tie. It's too much of a gamble, and it's a bad one.

Alright how about me and Reenk for the two candidates? Then its Never Winters Mafia all over again

Both of you will be satisfied then wouldn't you?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

The win and loss is honestly meaningless at this stage. Would anyone seriously consider the Godfather's play any less magnificent if he ended up losing in the final round? I at least wouldn't, not at all.

Nobody deserves anything but fun Atpg. The work done in this game shouldn't be for the purpose of winning alone, that should be less than 1% of the reason in my view. The over 99% I play these games and think on them and write up posts is to laugh and enjoy.

The ride is a lot more important than the destination.

Just my perspective on some things... :bow:

Agreed :bow:



Not only does it risk everything on the notion that we have to put two votes on the Godfather,

As opposed to risking everything on on the notion that we've put three votes on the godfather? Having all the dead vote would be fun, admit it.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Alright how about me and Reenk for the two candidates? Then its Never Winters Mafia all over again

Both of you will be satisfied then wouldn't you?

So you don't think Andres is guilty after all :stare:

[Askthepizzaguy]

If town seriously thinks that you're the Godfather, Beefy, why not lynch you now? I don't think you are, so I fail to see the point. Don't mind me, I'm dead and slightly crazy after some 300 odd posts here. :laugh2:

But, if everyone would be willing to lock in their votes for the tie, fine! Let the dead vote. I seriously doubt that the dead will pick Beefy over Reenk Roink, but let's let them decide that. Trouble is, everyone, including the Godfather, would have to agree to tie the votes, and since the role of the Godfather is to lie, he can possibly weasel his way out if it, I just find it to be an unnecessary risk.

Why not have a clean ending to the game? 3 votes on one player, and that's it. :smash: Why make it more complicated than it needs to be?

If everyone here gave a gentleman's agreement to LEAVE IT a tie, then fine. The Godfather will have to betray everyone's trust and his own word to win, which I feel is unsportsmanlike. So... that's my proposal.


1. 3 votes on one candidate to end the game

OR

2. Gentleman's agreement to keep the vote tied.

I'd be fine with either. See, I am listening to you, Sasaki... I just find it interesting your proposals make it less likely town will win, is all. Plus the unicyclist seemed to really, really have it out for ya...

:laugh4:

[Beefy187]

I'm not sure. I'm waiting for Andres to show up so i get to hear more from him.

But if you Sasaki are desperate wanting me lynched and ATPG are wanting Reenk lynched I just thought I'll suggest that.

But its likely to start up with 4 way tie when he does

[Reenk Roink]

The problem is you are looking at it from one perspective Atpg.

Why should the Godfather agree to such unfair terms in his view? He should certainly have to option to pull a fast last second vote switch to secure victory. :bow:

[Askthepizzaguy]

The problem is you are looking at it from one perspective Atpg.

Why should the Godfather agree to such unfair terms in his view? He should certainly have to option to pull a fast last second vote switch to secure victory. :bow:

And THAT is precisely why I am totally against the idea, and we shouldn't do it.

3 votes ends the game. That's the best way to end it. Others are suggesting a tie which you clearly won't accept, and a draw which you won't accept and GH won't allow.

So, 3 votes to end the game. It's obvious that's the way the game has to end. :smash:


And, yeah... never again:


Askthepizzaguy 303
Sasaki Kojiro 152
Beefy187 136
GeneralHankerchief 128
TinCow 104
Andres 102
Reenk Roink 90
777Ares777 88
shlin28 86
White_eyes:D 79
Quintus.JC 59
Seamus Fermanagh 58
seireikhaan 50
LittleGrizzly 48
YLC 40
taka 38
Psychonaut 31
Gaius Scribonius Curio 27
glyphz 26
Chaotix27 25
Lord Winter 21
Jolt 21
TevashSzat 18
CountArach 18
Sigurd 15
boudica 13
pevergreen 12
Ichigo 11
Tratorix 9
Ignoramus 5
Myrddraal 2
Ituralde 1

¡Ay, caramba! I've lost my freaking mind.

[Reenk Roink]

And THAT is precisely why I am totally against the idea, and we shouldn't do it.

3 votes ends the game. That's the best way to end it. Others are suggesting a tie which you clearly won't accept, and a draw which you won't accept and GH won't allow.

So, 3 votes to end the game. It's obvious that's the way the game has to end. :smash:

So you are against the idea of the Godfather utilizing a legal stratagem in his victory?

The rules don't restrict this behavior, why should you?

[Beefy187]

And I'm sure our "playful" host will enjoy the looks on mafias face by granting the town a extension of few extra hours if someone did a vote switch

Thats what I hope it will happen although, if three of youz can stay online near the finishing to make sure you can react fast that should be able to prevent it

[Sasaki Kojiro]

And THAT is precisely why I am totally against the idea, and we shouldn't do it.


What are the odds of one player out of the 4 being the godfather?

What are the odds of the godfather being one of the tied players when 2 out of 4 are tied?

:balloon2:

[Beefy187]

And if tie continues after the voting extension deadline.. Dead will be allowed to vote. Dead are very very fair aren't they?

[Askthepizzaguy]

So you are against the idea of the Godfather utilizing a legal stratagem in his victory?

The rules don't restrict this behavior, why should you?

Do whatever you like to win the game, Reenk, but others suggested an honourable tie, which you rejected, and so therefore, I reject the idea of allowing a tie to be broken by you.

I don't object to you doing what you have to do to WIN, Reenk...
I just think that the rest of the townies shouldn't go along with your nefarious plan, as I am entitled to think and express freely.

:bow:

[taka]

right ive read everything posted in the last few hours.

hm......

i'm gonna dissapoint Pizza in saying that i think the 2 way tie is a good to go as long as reenk is one of the 2

as for the other scummy, i just really don't know, as long as its reenk + one (me even, if anyone considers me scummy) i'm willing to do so.

mathematically, sasaki's lynch table

Player A: 2 (B, C)
Player B: 2 (A, D)

is good for me aswell

all we need to decide now is, who's the scummiest of us all?

i think there's no need for me to say who i think is scummy

[Askthepizzaguy]

What are the odds of one player out of the 4 being the godfather?

What are the odds of the godfather being one of the tied players when 2 out of 4 are tied?

:balloon2:

Reenk already rejected the idea of a tie, so this discussion is moot.

I propose we move on to discuss who the Godfather is. It is relevant. :laugh2:

@Taka:

Reenk already rejected the idea of a tie, because he said he would break it, in so many words.


To have a tie, you will need all four remaining players to cooperate. This one will certainly not.

So, everyone understands now, a tie is off the table as an option.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

And if tie continues after the voting extension deadline.. Dead will be allowed to vote. Dead are very very fair aren't they?

It would be more fun...

[Beefy187]

My ideal tie will be Andres and Reenk. But I guess ill have to be one of them.

Although, I will want a 3-1 as I won't be able to sit around till 3 o clock.

2-2 is fine for me too. Now that I know how 2-2 works, I won't object it

[Reenk Roink]

And I'm sure our "playful" host will enjoy the looks on mafias face by granting the town a extension of few extra hours if someone did a vote switch

Thats what I hope it will happen although, if three of youz can stay online near the finishing to make sure you can react fast that should be able to prevent it

I had this happen to me in Whispers of the Night where I put on a vote on Sigurd with less than 20 minutes to spare at 2 AM time here. :laugh4:

But the round was extended for almost 2 hours. Now, had my original quick plan worked, I don't think I did anything wrong or unethical at all? Do people share the same opinion and if not, why not?

Personally, if/when I ever host, I will set voting deadlines and not change them unless well in advance. I will allow last minute vote switches. And to make it fair to peoples in all time zones I will set deadlines at differing times every round randomly.

Sorry to derail into a Mafia ethics tangent but we have time and are waiting. :bow:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

right ive read everything posted in the last few hours.

hm......

i'm gonna dissapoint Pizza in saying that i think the 2 way tie is a good to go as long as reenk is one of the 2

as for the other scummy, i just really don't know, as long as its reenk + one (me even, if anyone considers me scummy) i'm willing to do so.

mathematically, sasaki's lynch table

Player A: 2 (B, C)
Player B: 2 (A, D)

is good for me aswell

all we need to decide now is, who's the scummiest of us all?

i think there's no need for me to say who i think is scummy

Well, since reenk has indicated that he isn't willing, we would need this:

Beefy: 2 (taka, Andres)
Reenk: 1 (Beefy)

Then reenk can either tie it by voting himself, or break his vow to protect beefy... ~D

You'd have to switch your vote to beefy though, because we can't have beefy voting himself and we can't trust reenk's vote on beefy.

[Reenk Roink]

Do whatever you like to win the game, Reenk, but others suggested an honourable tie, which you rejected, and so therefore, I reject the idea of allowing a tie to be broken by you.

I don't object to you doing what you have to do to WIN, Reenk...
I just think that the rest of the townies shouldn't go along with your nefarious plan, as I am entitled to think and express freely.

:bow:

Sorry, but the draw is a cheap cop out, and is not honorable in my view. If you reject an idea, so be it, but you have no vote. You shouldn't threaten to stop your participation in games if the voting doesn't go as you wish - that was my point.

Also, I am speaking in generals here about a topic that goes above the game, please let's keep the accusations out of it. :laugh4:

[Beefy187]

I had this happen to me in Whispers of the Night where I put on a vote on Sigurd with less than 20 minutes to spare at 2 AM time here. :laugh4:

But the round was extended for almost 2 hours. Now, had my original quick plan worked, I don't think I did anything wrong or unethical at all? Do people share the same opinion and if not, why not?

Personally, if/when I ever host, I will set voting deadlines and not change them unless well in advance. I will allow last minute vote switches. And to make it fair to peoples in all time zones I will set deadlines at differing times every round randomly.

Sorry to derail into a Mafia ethics tangent but we have time and are waiting. :bow:

Its valid tactic but you know me.. I'm a lazy host.

I extend round time until I feel like ending them. Sometime I end it short :laugh4:

brb. I'm off to buy some drinks and snacks to the local shop. Should be back in about 30 min.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Just as an FYI, the hard deadline for this round is Monday at 14:00 EST, 19:00 GMT. No extensions.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'm just responding to people's thoughts, Reenk.


Sasaki suggested a tie, and I showed how dangerous it was to do that, given the Godfather will escape death, and it's a moot point since you won't allow the tie to happen.

:shrug:

It was suggested that the game should be about fun more than winning, so I suggested we end the game in a draw, which both you and GH won't allow to happen.

:shrug:

I pointed out that the only sane way for the townies to end the game is with 3 votes on one player they all think is the Godfather.

:shrug:

I am contributing in a calm, rational manner, and I already said who I thought was guilty, town can do what it wants.

:shrug:

Why does this make me a bad guy? I'm just a realist. I hope everyone is still having fun, but I'm responding to the real situation we have here at the moment.

:bow: :shakehands: ~:grouphug:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I had this happen to me in Whispers of the Night where I put on a vote on Sigurd with less than 20 minutes to spare at 2 AM time here. :laugh4:

But the round was extended for almost 2 hours. Now, had my original quick plan worked, I don't think I did anything wrong or unethical at all? Do people share the same opinion and if not, why not?

Personally, if/when I ever host, I will set voting deadlines and not change them unless well in advance. I will allow last minute vote switches. And to make it fair to peoples in all time zones I will set deadlines at differing times every round randomly.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/sdojo/statusicon/post_old.gif 04-01-2007, 16:51
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https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/icons/icon0.gif Re: I'm back, and I'm looking for someone to kill 446

Unvote: Pevergreen
Vote: RoadKill

Undoubtedly the correct course of action.




https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/sdojo/statusicon/post_old.gif 04-01-2007, 16:52 #378 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1487752&postcount=378) https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/sdojo/statusicon/user_invisible.gif Sasaki Kojiro (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=5584)
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https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/icons/icon0.gif Re: I'm back, and I'm looking for someone to kill 446

Well we can go for one of the henchmen first if you really want.

Unvote,Vote:Roadkill

You are far too nervous my friend.
__________________
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https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/sdojo/statusicon/post_old.gif 04-01-2007, 16:53 #379 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1487755&postcount=379) https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/sdojo/statusicon/user_offline.gif Ichigo (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=12337)
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https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/icons/icon0.gif Re: I'm back, and I'm looking for someone to kill 446

HAHAHAHAHA Voting closed.

:laugh4:

[Reenk Roink]

Let's get this cleared up Atpg, I have nothing against you advocating how the townies should vote. I have always encouraged you to speak your thoughts in these games have I not?

But when you add this kind of statement:


I'll never play this game again if you let the round end in a tie. :smash:

Then it seems like a threat and to be honest, a tantrum, to get things to go your way. Unless this was a joke, which I don't think it was, but sincerely apologize if wrong, it's akin to saying:


I will defriend you if you don't vote for me Beefy.

And being serious (I wasn't as Beefy knows) :laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:

:bow:

[taka]

Well, since reenk has indicated that he isn't willing, we would need this:

Beefy: 2 (taka, Andres)
Reenk: 1 (Beefy)

Then reenk can either tie it by voting himself, or break his vow to protect beefy... ~D

You'd have to switch your vote to beefy though, because we can't have beefy voting himself and we can't trust reenk's vote on beefy.

the only way to push reenk onto a vote with a tie is

Beefy 1 (Andres)
Reenk 2 (taka, Beefy)

with that, he WILL have to vote for beefy and as long as reenk is in there, im not fussed

[Reenk Roink]

I wouldn't vote for Beefy even if I was Mafia. Somethings go beyond the parameters of the game like my little pacts. :laugh4:

You are free to kill me by the way, the only reason I am less hesitant to die now than earlier is because killing me would lead to certain loss for town and also my kill writeup for myself wont be used (unless GH incorporates it to which I :bow::bow::bow::bow::bow::bow::bow::bow:)

[Askthepizzaguy]

Let's get this cleared up Atpg, I have nothing against you advocating how the townies should vote. I have always encouraged you to speak your thoughts in these games have I not?

But when you add this kind of statement. Then it seems like a threat and to be honest, a tantrum, to get things to go your way. Unless this was a joke, which I don't think it was, but sincerely apologize if wrong, it's akin to saying...

Perhaps the text-based nature of the game has allowed a misinterpretation of my statement, and that's no one's fault.

Since
A) We all see that a tied vote is impossible if all 4 players don't agree on it, and
B) A tied vote is a very, very, very, very poor townie strategy right now and
C) There will be no draw...

I am trying, very, very politely, to get my fellow townies to drop the idea of tying the vote. I mean, we are on the same side on this issue, Reenk. You already said you wouldn't go along with the tie, and it's your prerogative to vote however you want without being forced to make a gentleman's agreement.

I agree.

SO, a tie is not going to happen, SO why not tell the rest of the townies to.... stop talking about a tie? I tried repeatedly, but I seem to have been overlooked a little, so I decided to add emphasis to the notion that we REALLY, REALLY shouldn't try for a tie when it's patently obvious there will be no tie.

I'm just trying to be sane and rational and aware of the events of the game, and ensure that these minor details which aren't minor at all are known by all before the vote.

If I put undue emphasis on the point, I apologize. I just find it irrational to commit to a plan which is doomed to failure before it even begins because there can be no tied vote.

Simple enough... I'm not mad, anxious, threatening or anything else. If I have been misconstrued, I apologize. I'm just trying to be sane in an insane world. :laugh2:

:bow:

It's really no biggie... why can't we discuss who the Godfather is and why? It seems to be a relevant thing to talk about.

:medievalcheers:

:grin:



the only way to push reenk onto a vote with a tie is

Beefy 1 (Andres)
Reenk 2 (taka, Beefy)

with that, he WILL have to vote for beefy and as long as reenk is in there, im not fussed

It's just a much better idea to drop the idea of a tie. It really is, that's all I am saying. Please ignore me, I am a fool. :jester:

[taka]

because andres isn't around

[Reenk Roink]

Well other people like the idea of a tie, and so what if they don't agree with me? Other people have different ideas on what is a good strategy and what isn't; what is rational and what isn't, that's what makes the game fun. :balloon::balloon2::balloon3: :2thumbsup:

[Reenk Roink]

Well other people like the idea of a tie, and so what if they don't agree with me? Other people have different ideas on what is a good strategy and what isn't; what is rational and what isn't, that's what makes the game fun. :balloon::balloon2::balloon3: :2thumbsup:

And I was just very worried at the prospect of you leaving the game Atpg. :shakehands: :bow:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

the only way to push reenk onto a vote with a tie is

Beefy 1 (Andres)
Reenk 2 (taka, Beefy)

with that, he WILL have to vote for beefy and as long as reenk is in there, im not fussed

I don't believe reenk would vote beefy to save himself. Part of the reason I'm so keen on a tie, beefy is my top suspect and it'll be hard to get him lynched when half the people living won't vote for him...

[Askthepizzaguy]

Well other people like the idea of a tie, and so what if they don't agree with me? Other people have different ideas on what is a good strategy and what isn't; what is rational and what isn't, that's what makes the game fun. :balloon::balloon2::balloon3: :2thumbsup:

Ah, but now we can get into a logical discussion about what is rational, and if I had unlimited time and a separate thread, I could totally destroy any argument which suggests that what is rational is totally subjective and impossible to know and prove to any extent.

However, that is DECIDEDLY off-topic, so lets... focus... :focus:

Who is the Godfather? Hmmm?

[Reenk Roink]

Ah, but now we can get into a logical discussion about what is rational, and if I had unlimited time and a separate thread, I could totally destroy any argument which suggests that what is rational is totally subjective and impossible to know and prove to any extent.

However, that is DECIDEDLY off-topic, so lets... focus... :focus:

Who is the Godfather? Hmmm?

I'm not so sure about your first paragraph (bit of a paraconsistentist myself :laugh4:) but I think taka is the Godfather now. :yes:

[taka]

@ reenk

didnt u always think i was god father? hence ur vote? or was that a OMGWTFUS vote?

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'm not so sure about your first paragraph (bit of a paraconsistentist myself :laugh4:) but I think taka is the Godfather now. :yes:

Can you give me a link to your case as to why that is?

:bow:

My counter-case, of course:

Taka has had no one defending him all game, and has come close to death, and has been the scapegoat and target of many scummy-looking people, and he voted himself last round and left the vote there for quite some time.

In a game where he knows for sure the lurkers are going down, he kept his lurker strategy up, and the mafia kept him alive so that he would be a tempting lynch. I argue that he's decidedly the least scummy person here.

But! I am a silly pizzaguy, so if town wishes, lynch him.

[Beefy187]

Me and Reenk tie wouldn't bare fruit. I have no intentions to vote for him, he doesn't seem to want to either.

But all that can go later :laugh4:

ATPG is right. We should focus on finding who is most likely the God Father, although I know most of the cases already so I see no point.

I think soon as Andres shows up, we can start sorting out the voting.

[Chaotix]

Who is the Godfather? Hmmm?

Why, Reenk is the Godfather, of course. Look at his behavior all this game and tell me that he hasn't acted scummy.

I hope town lynches the right candidate.

[GeneralHankerchief]

As of this post, Andres officially has 100 posts to read. Let's all stop and say "hello" before you resume playing, gentlemen. :laugh4:

[taka]

hello!

[Reenk Roink]

Well I just feel strongly that he is Mafia. I guess some of the reasons for this is because he voted for me, trying to run with the idea that I am scummy which always lies in the background ready for someone to pick up (usually Atpg :laugh4:). Then the fact that now all of a sudden he decides to get interested. I mean sure it's interesting now, but it's always been good! :laugh4:

In anycase, it's obvious I needed to have you killed earlier taka :laugh4:, well played. :bow:

As Beefy says, the cases don't matter now, to me at least. I will vote for taka but can also go for Andres. I will also not prevent a Beefy lynch though I will be less active in my defense (sorry Beefy :sweatdrop:)

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I think soon as Andres shows up, we can start sorting out the voting.

Well it's what, 6 AM in the netherlands?



103...lol, hi Andres!

[Askthepizzaguy]

I have no intentions to vote for him

ATPG is right. We should focus on finding who is most likely the God Father, although I know most of the cases already so I see no point.

I think soon as Andres shows up, we can start sorting out the voting.

I am just curious. Feel free to vote any way you like... but is there a reason, beyond Reenk's playful defense of you all game, to overlook Reenk as a suspect?

If that's what it takes to gain favor, then my strategy the next time I am a mafia is to make sure I always defend Beefy, so at least one person won't vote for me.

:laugh2:

If you don't think it's you, Beefy (for obvious reasons) and you don't think it's Reenk, then you must think it is either Taka or Andres.

Any case against Taka is a pretty tough one to make, for obvious reasons. So, between Andres and Reenk Roink, you pick Andres, I assume?

That means there will not be a possibility of 3 votes on Reenk, so, unless Andres is the Godfather, the game has ended with a mafia victory.



Why, Reenk is the Godfather, of course. Look at his behavior all this game and tell me that he hasn't acted scummy.

I hope town lynches the right candidate.

Have a balloon, my friend. :balloon:

I always liked the way you analyze things, Chaotix.

[Beefy187]

Well I just feel strongly that he is Mafia. I guess some of the reasons for this is because he voted for me, trying to run with the idea that I am scummy which always lies in the background ready for someone to pick up (usually Atpg :laugh4:). Then the fact that now all of a sudden he decides to get interested. I mean sure it's interesting now, but it's always been good! :laugh4:

In anycase, it's obvious I needed to have you killed earlier taka :laugh4:, well played. :bow:

As Beefy says, the cases don't matter now, to me at least. I will vote for taka but can also go for Andres. I will also not prevent a Beefy lynch though I will be less active in my defense (sorry Beefy :sweatdrop:)

In that case, I won't feel as bad if I have to vote for you :laugh4:

Don't worry about it. We are all here to have some fun, not to play truth or dare.

[Reenk Roink]

He's trying to manipulate you Beefy :laugh4:, though I have nothing against you voting for me. If I am lynched it means I pushed my boundaries a bit too far this game, no biggie, I've done crazier things. :laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:

And those will be my last words, good night (and good morning Andres :bow:).

[GeneralHankerchief]

Well it's what, 6 AM in the netherlands?



103...lol, hi Andres!

Careful, he'll shoot you for that. He's Flemish. :tongue:

[taka]

reenk, ive noticed it a few times already now, but what do you mean when you say

it's obvious I needed to have you killed earlier taka
and then trying to laugh off?

you said something along the lines of that previously too, but forgot which post

anyhows, the end is nigh so here, i'll laught with you :laugh4:

[Beefy187]

Well Reenks leaving so I'll go off to TWC. If nothings happening there, I might finish watching Terminator.

I'll pop up frequently to see if Andres shows up. If not Ill keep quiet.

Thanks for the fun conversation guys. Ill see youz later :2thumbsup:

[Askthepizzaguy]

Tally:

Taka votes Reenk 1758
Reenk votes Taka 1760
Beefy votes Andres 1767


Reenk: 1
Taka: 1
Andres: 1

And I remind the town, that a tie is VERY VERY BAD.

I will throw myself at your mercy, and beg the entire town to please please please please please vote for Reenk Roink, and if we lose you can blame me, thanks so much.

:bow:

[taka]

i need to sleep, its 6:14am in england lol

[seireikhaan]

Hello hahahahAndres.

I believe its Reenk, btw.

[Beefy187]

i need to sleep, its 6:14am in england lol

Alright before you go, switch the vote to me or Reenk

EDIT: I see you already got a vote on Reenk.. My bad

[Askthepizzaguy]

And a balloon for seireikhaan:

:balloon:

:bow:

At the very least, you will get to see what an epic, epic failure I am if I was wrong all along, guys. :laugh2:


edit: Beefy: Taka is already voting for Reenk.

[Beefy187]

And a balloon for seireikhaan:

:balloon:

:bow:

At the very least, you will get to see what an epic, epic failure I am if I was wrong all along, guys. :laugh2:


edit: Beefy: Taka is already voting for Reenk.

HAH I edited before you said that :laugh4:

Now seriously. I will resume watching terminator

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Careful, he'll shoot you for that. He's Flemish. :tongue:

It's 6 AM in...Flemlandia? That's the place where they make that crummy beer right?


reenk, ive noticed it a few times already now, but what do you mean when you say

For what it's worth taka, this is the way reenk plays the game. So what appears to be suspicious actually isn't. On the other hand, Beefy has been killing off the people who are suspicious of him at night. Then there's the fact that tevash voted to save beefy, and that beefy was on the fence during the whole tevash lynching round. He's been cruising through here. The towns only real hope is for you and and Andres to vote for beefy, do us proud!

https://img410.imageshack.us/img410/3157/924.gif

[Askthepizzaguy]

HAH I edited before you said that :laugh4:

Now seriously. I will resume watching terminator

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

You REALLY enjoy torturing me, don't you Beefy? :applause::applause::applause:

[GeneralHankerchief]

Is that a bandwagon smiley with snakes on a plane?

AWESOME.

Okay, I'm going to sleep now. Try not to blow up the thread while I'm gone.

[seireikhaan]

Please do note- I said "believe". I am in no way confident in my analysis. Its still possible any one of them are Godfather.

[Beefy187]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

You REALLY enjoy torturing me, don't you Beefy? :applause::applause::applause:

If tickling counts as torture yes..

[Askthepizzaguy]

Beefy has got an awfully STRANGE strategy if he's the Godfather, Sasaki...

With a vote on Reenk, and a lot of people saying Reenk is guilty, it would be very, very easy for Beefy to just plop his vote down on Reenk Roink and win the game, especially if Andres also thinks Reenk is finally guilty looking. At worst, he's got a forced tie.

Very, very silly behavior for the Godfather to pass on that. He's a townie who is just reluctant to decide the game when he's not sure about who the Godfather is, that's that.

He's not so evil as to torture us like this if he were the Godfather. So it's not Beefy.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Is that a bandwagon smiley with snakes on a plane?

AWESOME.

Okay, I'm going to sleep now. Try not to blow up the thread while I'm gone.

:laugh4: I lost the original but I like the new version



Please do note- I said "believe". I am in no way confident in my analysis. Its still possible any one of them are Godfather.

At this point if I had proof that reenk was mafia I'd still try and get someone else lynched...gotta appreciate the risk taking.

atpg don't pay attention to that last sentence

[Askthepizzaguy]

atpg don't pay attention to that last sentence

What sentence? I saw nothing. No nothing not at all, not now, not never. :laugh4:

[Askthepizzaguy]

I will defriend you if you don't vote for me Beefy.

Come now, Beefy... your pal Reenk Roink wanted you to vote for him.

Don't let a friend down on his final request! Do what Reenk says... he wants you to vote for him!



:laugh4:

[Beefy187]

:laugh4:

I will stick on my word and wait for Andres to show up. Call me stubborn or stupid but thats what Ill do :yes:

[Askthepizzaguy]

You're not dumb, Beefy. You're careful, and you measure your moves with great patience.

You may think I have patience, going through all those posts, over and over again, reading this thread until my eyes bled, posting until my fingers are sore, but I am too quick to draw conclusions, as you've seen in the thread.

Didn't I just accuse Andres of being the Godfather last round? :laugh2: Case in point.
I went after Gaius and shlin, and ares too. See? Quick to draw conclusions. Probably my biggest flaw. But there were suspects that needed to be eliminated, and I wanted to know who Reenk was protecting.

Be as patient with your choice as you like. I like that you think over your votes, probably a lot more carefully than me. It's probably why you're so likeable and why I grate on people's nerves... :laugh4:

Master Beefy must teach padawan Pizzaguy about the value of patience...

[Beefy187]

Lesson 1

People says that its better to do things now then do it tomorrow.. I think not.

Even if you finish season 1 of terminator, and want to keep watching..If you finish them all, there is absolutely nothing left to do. And that sucks.. I learnt them the hard way after watching every single episode of Death note in 2 days and Good bye Mr Despair in 1 day.. :wall:

I hope you weren't expecting straight answers :smash:

[Askthepizzaguy]

Jedi Master Beefy-wan Kenobi sez:


Procrastination is your friend.(Really??? Awesome! I've been putting off getting a job for MONTHS!!! The only issue now is my bank account...)

By the way, Beefy, if you're the Godfather, I will claim that I refused to go after you because the cow with the glowing eyes in your signature hypnotized me.

All hail HypnoCow! All hail HypnoCow! I am thy humble servant...



Edit@Beefy, below: Remind me to contact him about my signature...

[Beefy187]

That was Ares! Ares I say!

Not my fault his soo awesome at making sigs :beam:

[Askthepizzaguy]

Hmm... well it looks like Andres isn't here or is a bit busy. I should probably get going.

Please town, make sure your votes end up totaling 3 on one target, or else the game has been a very, very fun exercise in futility. :smash:

:laugh2:

[naut]

Great game how ever it ends. :bow:

[Quintus.JC]

Blimey... all these posts to read :jawdrop:

This game is definitely getting over 2,000 posts. :thumbsup:

After skimming through the thread I think a tie between Beefy and Reenk would do.... I still think its Beefy though.

[Beefy187]

Blimey... all these posts to read :jawdrop:


And most of the posts were ATPG ranting on :laugh4:

[pevergreen]

Yeah, I'm probably going to put ATPG on ignore from now on. Will cut my reading load by 20%.

[Beefy187]

I read it. Can't say its perfect but many of his post are good quality posts.
Amount of his post is unbelievable though. He may need to cut it down a bit

EDIT: I'm running out of time.. 30 min left. I think I might unvote Andres and Vote Reenk and I ask Reenk to vote for me.

Then when Andres shows up, we can have our tie, then we can let the dead decide

Times up

Unvote: Andres, Vote: Reenk

Now I'll have to hope really hard that Andres aren't it

Good luck fellows, I'm off.

[Quintus.JC]

I read it. Can't say its perfect but many of his post are good quality posts.
Amount of his post is unbelievable though. He may need to cut it down a bit


I do appreciate his anaylsis and hard work, but he does needs to cut down on some the unnecessary rants though.

I got up from sleep and found an extra five pages of information to read... :dizzy:

[Seamus Fermanagh]

What an AWESOME finale. GH, be proud man, very proud.


ALL 3 are staying true to form.

Beefy is the soul of geniality, Reenk is his veeringly funny tightrope dancing self, taka is aware and involved but underparticipating compared to all else.

Andres is not involved, but one dinner party and an early to bed would explain the absence -- the last 4 pages have more ore less erupted -- what a pace.

We have more than 24 hours, so let us hear from Andres.


I predict there will be no tie. Nor do I feel that a dead vote will generate a better result. Sift carefully, and let the chips fall. Regardless of outcome, this has been one of the grand games. I am happy just to have been in it.

[TinCow]

Andres is the only person that I think is innocent. Since we know for sure that there's only a Godfather left, Andres' previous behavior pretty much excludes him from that role. I would recommend a lynch of Beefy.

[Andres]

Ugh. Just when I'm suffering from the grandmother of all hang-overs.

Still have 3 pages to read but for now:

Vote : Beefy187

He didn't vote White_Eyes:D.

If I'm not mistaken, mafia with two mafiosi still alive would have won if we would have lynched a townie yesterday.

I was strongly advising to vote White_Eyes:D. If I would have been mafia, then I would have picked Reenk Roink and it would have worked. Reenk had enough suspicion on him at the moment to have him lynched. That and what I said the previous day about taking risks by not unvoting and voting to save my skin in round 1 and in the round before the last round.

Ugh, I need water and some aspirines. I hate cocktails. It's the last time. Really. Screw "you can't drink beer at a cocktailparty!". And me and my wife were the only ones with a Hawaii shirt, flowers around our neck and a really ridiculous hat.

Bah, kids, never mix blue curacao, cocos sirop, ananas juice and rum into one cocktail. Yes, it tastes delicious, but a worse fate than death will wait for you the day after.

I'm dying. Really.

:shame:

And was I resurrect from the death, I'll have to ask that one guy why I absolutely had to try absinth 89,9 %.

[Quintus.JC]

What happens if the voting ends in a draw, do all dead get a vote, or is it limited to only a few of them?

[GeneralHankerchief]

Every deader gets a vote.

-edit- as do the remaining living, of course.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Andres is the only person that I think is innocent. Since we know for sure that there's only a Godfather left, Andres' previous behavior pretty much excludes him from that role. I would recommend a lynch of Beefy.

Any of them COULD be the Godfather.

I concur with Tincow on Andres. Is it possible that he allowed himself to be on the chopping block 2-3 times without acting -- just trusting to non-chalance as a means of avoiding the loss? Yes. But I agree that it is not likely. The only thing against him, in my mind, is his current absence. I recall him using a RL move to justify his absence from the game during the run up to the end -- and he won as the serial killer.

taka steadfastly maintained his active lurker status, even when targeted. Unlike Andres, he did make one or two specifically self-preservtaionist votes. He cannot be ruled out. He participated very actively -- a couple of voting rounds -- in lynching me. He could simply have been following Reenk's lead while lurking, but I was the one putting pressure on him. His earlier posts almost all feature a "I'm really a small games man" or "I'm not fussed if I get lynched" theme, but his recent activity level and style of post -- involved, enjoying the interplay and humor -- is VASTLY different. This pattern of behavior just SCREAMS mafia to me. Yet most of you do not see it that way....what am I missing?

Reenk is awe-inspiring. He led several lynches -- including mine -- with a jaunty :laugh4: and a "you just feel scummy to me" and it WORKED. The gravitas is just staggering. My problem in assessing him as the Godfather is that he very well could be that "out there," risking a game end at any moment, and playing it precisely that way because it appeals to him more than any other approach. Essentially, the case for his townie status boils down to: No Godfather would ever be quite that cavalier. The case for his mafioso status boils down to : it's Reenk, yes he just might. At best, I get a bit of the sensation he gave me in MG1 as Loki -- in it for the thrill of the game and, while trying to win, not worried if he misses as the game has been fun (which it has!). Overall, still mixed thoughts.

Beefy. Dearest Beefster. You have been on my "hmmmmm" list since very early in the game. Despite what others have said, and you have claimed, about your activity level, you just seem so much more "present" in this game than in any other I can recall. All of your posts seem genial and reasonable -- yet you frequently allude to gentleman's agreements etc. as your rationale for votes and pursuits. All in all, you have been involved, informed, reasonably responsive when prodded, but have not EVER gone after someone, pushed for information, or really taken point on anything. It's almost like you're a politician at a party which hasn't been "polled." Everyone will recall you were there, nobody will think you were doing something offensive, but nobody can really point to anything you did or said except to say that you seemed to be enjoying yourself.


All in all, if I were the one to pick, I'd probably vote Beefy. It's close, as I find taka a goodly bit and Reenk somewhat suspect as well. If its Andres, then he's bested me here. Still, in the final analysis, I'd say its 187Beefyz by a steer's nose.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Ugh. Just when I'm suffering from the grandmother of all hang-overs.

Ugh, I need water and some aspirines. I hate cocktails. It's the last time. Really. Screw "you can't drink beer at a cocktailparty!". And me and my wife were the only ones with a Hawaii shirt, flowers around our neck and a really ridiculous hat.

Bah, kids, never mix blue curacao, cocos sirop, ananas juice and rum into one cocktail. Yes, it tastes delicious, but a worse fate than death will wait for you the day after.

I'm dying. Really.

:shame:

And was I resurrect from the death, I'll have to ask that one guy why I absolutely had to try absinth 89,9 %.

Andres:

Back in grad school I was a serious drinker (doesn't mix with kids & family or I might still be practicing :wiseguy:).

Rule #1: Don't mix. If you drink your alcohol straight, you will: 1) know precisely how :daisy: up you are getting, and 2) you will not have all those wierd sugars etc. in your body that will make any hangover even worse.

I recall vividly one bachelor party where all the other blokes were doing shooters with Midori, jager', etc. I drank straight shots of Irish whiskey with them, one for one. We all had hangovers, but I didn't spend much of the next morning worshiping porcelain.

[Andres]

Meh, taka didn't vote White_Eyes:D either.

Anyway, today, we are four. Godfather + grunt = 2, which equals the number of townies => mafia win.

Therefore, it can't be Reenk nor me. We both voted White_Eyes:D the previous day. If one of us would have been the Godfather, we would have never lynched W_E, since keeping him alive and using two votes to lynch an innocent, would have resulted in mafia victory.

It has to be taka or Beefy187.

I'm inclined to go for Beefy187 but if you guys want a tie, then the tie should be between taka and Beefy187.

[taka]

i g2g, but im willing to go me and reenk if that makes things better

for me, reenk just has to be in there

and i dont see how not voting for WE means scummy, coz i didnt think WE was scummy at the time

[Andres]

Andres:

Back in grad school I was a serious drinker (doesn't mix with kids & family or I might still be practicing :wiseguy:).

Rule #1: Don't mix. If you drink your alcohol straight, you will: 1) know precisely how :daisy: up you are getting, and 2) you will not have all those wierd sugars etc. in your body that will make any hangover even worse.

I recall vividly one bachelor party where all the other blokes were doing shooters with Midori, jager', etc. I drank straight shots of Irish whiskey with them, one for one. We all had hangovers, but I didn't spend much of the next morning worshiping porcelain.

Yeah, but you don't know the worst part.

I know all of that too, since I've learned all the lessons about drinking at Uni.

Alas, somehow, my memory didn't recall those lessons last night. It seems like my brain was on a holiday yesterday. Probably to Hawaii, drinking cocktails at the beach.


Honey, can you stop the car, I'm not feeling too well.


I have no mercy on you :brood: We will shear those bushes today, as we agreed :whip:

:bigcry:

:shame:

[Andres]

and i dont see how not voting for WE means scummy, coz i didnt think WE was scummy at the time

Because the write-up said the Godfather killed last night, which means W_E was a grunt.

If we would have had four alive with 2 mafia (GF+grunt) today, it would have been a guaranteed mafia win.

The fact that you nor Beefy voted the last grunt, makes you two top suspects for being the GF.

[taka]

and i dont see how not voting for WE means scummy, coz i didnt think WE was scummy at the time

at the time

[Andres]

at the time

That's not my point.

My point is that those who have voted W_E are almost certain to be innocent. So you and Beefy187 are left.

Personally, I think it's Beefy187, but if it has to be a tie, then I would very much prefer a tie between you and Beefy187.


EDIT: GAH! There goes the theory of W_E must have been scum:



Ehm, is the fact that the Godfather was mentioned in the latest kill write-up coincidential or was the write-up entirely the mafia's doing?

Can I quote your reply on this pm in the thread?

Andres.

I'm going to be maddeningly unhelpful here and not give you a straight answer. As such, feel free to quote this PM to your heart's content. :laugh4:

All I will say is, in this round, the mafia had no more reason to disguise their numbers. If there were any more or less mafiosi left, the game would have ended.

I still believe Reenk is innocent though.

[TinCow]

Beefy. Dearest Beefster. You have been on my "hmmmmm" list since very early in the game. Despite what others have said, and you have claimed, about your activity level, you just seem so much more "present" in this game than in any other I can recall. All of your posts seem genial and reasonable -- yet you frequently allude to gentleman's agreements etc. as your rationale for votes and pursuits. All in all, you have been involved, informed, reasonably responsive when prodded, but have not EVER gone after someone, pushed for information, or really taken point on anything. It's almost like you're a politician at a party which hasn't been "polled." Everyone will recall you were there, nobody will think you were doing something offensive, but nobody can really point to anything you did or said except to say that you seemed to be enjoying yourself.

This sums up my feelings nicely. Beefy's latest actions seem very jovial for some reason. I get the feeling he's celebrating his own victory. Reenk is just... Reenk. I can't pin anything on Reenk at the moment other than his own Reenkness. My scummy feelings about him were largely connected with a dual Andres-Reenk Grunt/Godfather pair, which is obviously no longer possible. Thus, Andres' drop on the scum charts takes Reenk along with him. Beefy and taka are the two most suspect people at this point, and taka just doesn't convince me. Thus, Beefy.

[Quintus.JC]

Well, people must notice of Taka's sudden increase of involvement in the game. Taka has most lurked but came out of the shadows and is posting much more frequent now.

Read Seamus' post on Taka (post 1891), his level of involvement in the late game is leery and suspicious, I reckon he's a far better suspect than Reenk.

[Reenk Roink]

Well Beefy is the Godfather. However, I will stay true to my pact (plus I don't want the dead to come in where it is certain death for me). :bow:

My thoughts on all that transpired: Atpg's case was pretty unconvincing on the whole just like throughout the game, he essentially preached to the choir (Chaotix). Then there are the others who came to conclusions about me by themselves (like seireikhaan). Dunno why taka voted against me, at first I thought he was Godfather. I came to the conclusion that it was Beefy after this post:


In that case, I won't feel as bad if I have to vote for you :laugh4:

It seemed throughout the entire conversation last night, Beefy wanted me to go against Andres. I think Beefy wanted to spare me the final lynch because he is such a nice guy (and maybe also because I defended him). Sure enough though, when he saw my stance on ties and taka wouldn't change, he made that post to then follow up with an actual vote, easing to the jarring of a vote on me, which he earlier said he would never do because he thought I was innocent.

Then he did follow it up with an vote. I don't think Beefy thinks me guilty at all (he is Godfather, but even in his townie act). But for some reason, taka has been on my case for some reason (I pray not Atpg's refuted cases), and remains stubborn, willing to throw his own life at risk as well.

Well, taka, here is the plain case against Beefy. I don't know if it will change your mind or not, but just remember, I won't bbe acting against Beefy, so if you want to lynch the Godfather, you know what to do. :yes:

I of course will keep my vote on you because you voted against me and I cannot let that go unpunished. :bow:

[naut]

Well Beefy is the Godfather.
:inquisitive:

[Quintus.JC]

Well Beefy is the Godfather. However, I will stay true to my pact (plus I don't want the dead to come in where it is certain death for me). :bow:

My thoughts on all that transpired: Atpg's case was pretty unconvincing on the whole just like throughout the game, he essentially preached to the choir (Chaotix). Then there are the others who came to conclusions about me by themselves (like seireikhaan). Dunno why taka voted against me, at first I thought he was Godfather. I came to the conclusion that it was Beefy after this post:



It seemed throughout the entire conversation last night, Beefy wanted me to go against Andres. I think Beefy wanted to spare me the final lynch because he is such a nice guy (and maybe also because I defended him). Sure enough though, when he saw my stance on ties and taka wouldn't change, he made that post to then follow up with an actual vote, easing to the jarring of a vote on me, which he earlier said he would never do because he thought I was innocent.

Then he did follow it up with an vote. I don't think Beefy thinks me guilty at all (he is Godfather, but even in his townie act). But for some reason, taka has been on my case for some reason (I pray not Atpg's refuted cases), and remains stubborn, willing to throw his own life at risk as well.

Well, taka, here is the plain case against Beefy. I don't know if it will change your mind or not, but just remember, I won't bbe acting against Beefy, so if you want to lynch the Godfather, you know what to do. :yes:

I of course will keep my vote on you because you voted against me and I cannot let that go unpunished. :bow:

In light of this new evidence....

If its all true then town knows what to do.

[Andres]

Well, people must notice of Taka's sudden increase of involvement in the game. Taka has most lurked but came out of the shadows and is posting much more frequent now.

Read Seamus' post on Taka (post 1891), his level of involvement in the late game is leery and suspicious, I reckon he's a far better suspect than Reenk.

True that. But I still remember a game (Mafia VII or VIII) where Kagemusha came out of the shadows where he had lurked throughout the whole game, to defend himself and finally convinced town to lynch the last remaining mafiosi.

:shrug:

I suggest the remaining townies surrender to the Godfather because of his brilliant play.

How about we all vote no lynch?

Unvote : Beefy187
Vote : no lynch

Hat's off to you, Godfather. You played a fantastic game :bow:

Let this game where tensions were high and the debates got very heated end in beauty. Let it go into the Gameroom history books as the game where town didn't want to win, out of respect for the wonderful play of the mafia.

Because Reenk was spot on, it's not the end result that matters, it's the fun we all have during the game.

I had fun in this fantastic game which makes me a winner already, regardless of the end result.

Kudos to GH for hosting this one and a big congratulations to the mafiosi :2thumbsup:

[Reenk Roink]

:inquisitive:

See above case, sorry, I don't really think fully before I post as obvious. :laugh4:

Another two things, I think Beefy because he is so nice feels a tinge of guilt (WHICH YOU SHOULDN'T AT ALL MY GOOD SIR :bow:) for voting on me so he asks for me to vote on me and says it is OK. I won't anyway, because the dead are much less favorable to me and more favorable to Beefy than the 4 of us alone.

This matches earlier behavior when I made an appeal for Beefy to save me. Beefy said he wouldn't he appeared noncommittal as a Godfather would be (who would want to associate themselves with me? :laugh4:) but he did thank me for his support. I just think a townie Beefy has been selfless enough in the past to save someone he thought was innocent. A Godfather Beefy however is in it to win it, as should be. :bow:

[taka]

arrgg..... seems the decision's on me

i personally dont think andres is GF at the moment, but between beefy and reenk............

as you have a pact with beefy, i too have a mutual trust with him and with you unwilling to vote for him, how could i possibly vote for him?

and with your earlier post, i dont really see that as evidence as Quintus put it, but i do get your points. for me to vote beefy, i need much more persuading, coz if not my vote stands

as with the people that have mentioned about my sudden increase in play, as i say for the 2nd or 3rd time, 100's of posts ago i said that my level of involvement WILL increase towards the end as with less players, its closer to a small game which suits my style much more

you will have noticed this in chicago too

[Reenk Roink]

Well I have nothing like a mutual trust pact :laugh4:, I just am the defender of Beefy (for this game) good or bad! :2thumbsup:

What is your reason for voting me then taka? What case?

[shlin28]

Just because Beefy is a nice guy doesn't mean he is da GF! Remember he has hunusually igh activity count and is protected by so many people I can't even count them!

This dead person will vote for Beefy no matter what :bow:

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Actually, a "no lynch" favors the town mathematically.

This round, there is a -- assuming no evidence indicates one's guilt over another -- 1 chance in 4 of getting the Godfather. Thus, a 75% chance of the Godfather winning.

If there is no lynch, and the Godfather kills another, then the chances of a mafia win are reduced to 67%.

If there is no lynch, and the Godfather does not kill, then chances remain 75% and the discussion continues.

However, the Host has already indicated this is to be the last round, so it is probably best to seek his input.

GH, would rounds continue with a vote of "No Lynch" or will you resolve the game at the conclusion of this lynch phase one way or the other.

Mathematics may indicate the best response for the town, but it is your game (and a superb one thus far; it is deservedly on a course for 2k!).

[Sasaki Kojiro]

arrgg..... seems the decision's on me

i personally dont think andres is GF at the moment, but between beefy and reenk............

as you have a pact with beefy, i too have a mutual trust with him and with you unwilling to vote for him, how could i possibly vote for him?



Beefy voted for you remember? And your pact was only until there were less than 10 alive.



@Andres and Seamus: Don't think no lynch is the best solution. Either the mafia don't kill and we are right back where we started or Beefy is the godfather and he kills andres...making it impossible to lynch him since reenk won't vote for him.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

taka, you should really switch to beefy...if GH ends the game soon that would leave a three way tie between reenk, beefy, and no-lynch.

VVV You're right, this was a 48 hour day. Nice!

[Reenk Roink]

taka, you should really switch to beefy...if GH ends the game soon that would leave a three way tie between reenk, beefy, and no-lynch.

We have a day and I don't think GH will allow the no lynch.

[TinCow]

Let this game where tensions were high and the debates got very heated end in beauty. Let it go into the Gameroom history books as the game where town didn't want to win, out of respect for the wonderful play of the mafia.

You can call it that if you want, I'll call it the game where the town lost because Reenk doesn't even care about supporting his own side. It kind of defeats the purpose of mafia when people sabotage their own victory. :thumbsdown:

[Jolt]

Bleh, I'll be a sad panda if Andres doesn't even reach the tie. I already made my case, which is sound by my definition and to think that Andres is the GF and won't even reach the voting is...bleh.

[Reenk Roink]

You can call it that if you want, I'll call it the game where the town lost because Reenk doesn't even care about supporting his own side. It kind of defeats the purpose of mafia when people sabotage their own victory. :thumbsdown:

Yes, because it's my bad that two people are voting me right? :rolleyes:

Honestly, you can call it want you want but the living players will play their way, they've earned that right. I don't like to be accused of sabotage in these games, but hey, I'll just tow my line. :shrug:

I've already given a secondary reason for not voting Beefy, because I don't want it to go to tie where I will most likely lose. To lynch Beefy, we need taka, so try to convince him like I have instead of putting me down. :snobby:

[GeneralHankerchief]

Well TBH I had no idea when extending this round that there would be the possibility of there not being a lynch.

Nevertheless, "no lynch" remains an option. And if you guys choose to take it, then there will be a night kill. And the game will continue, although the next round won't last 48 hours.

[TinCow]

To lynch Beefy, we need taka, so try to convince him like I have instead of putting me down. :snobby:

Fair enough, but I really don't think your actions are likely to produce that result.

[Quintus.JC]

Forget 'no lynch', lets end it this round. I really can't wait to find out who the GF and the grunts were. :yes: Besides that method does seem a little inglorious, even though it is legitimate.

Of course regardless of the GF's identity he certainly gave a almost flawless performance (flawless if he wins), and reaching this stage he does deserve victory. But I think Reenk you should take the town's best interest (that is if you're one of us) and lynch who you think is the Godfather. I know having fun should be the priority, but it certainly doesn't do any harm in having fun and winning at the same time.

[TinCow]

Reenk, for what it's worth, I really do think you should switch your vote to Beefy. Even if you can't convince taka, Andres is pretty much in agreement with you. With both you and him voting for Beefy, at worst it will be a tie vote. That means us deaders will essentially get the deciding vote. As far as I can tell, those of us who have chimed in are greatly in favor of a Beefy lynch. So, as I see it, you have far better odds of winning if you and Andres cooperate to at least keep the vote at a 2/2 tie with Beefy as a contendor.

[Thermal]

If we cast our minds back a black cloud went over me and taka didnt it reenk :stare: taka's probably innocent, I am so putting my money on beefy, and how dare he blame me for his evil signature! :furious3: :clown:

[Andres]

Ok, if my deceased team mates want us to continue this as it is supposed, then trying to lynch the GF we will :bow:

You may be dead, but you're still part of the town team, so your voice should not be ignored.

Reenk, Beefy187 and taka, please forget about your "pact". Your loyalty should be with your team, the townies (well, this goes for 2 of you, one of you probably prefers to stick to this "pact")

Unvote : no lynch
Vote : Beefy187

Let's end this today.

[GeneralHankerchief]

I just realized something: I'm going to have to write a commentary for this colossaurus. :bigcry:

[Reenk Roink]

Fair enough, but I really don't think your actions are likely to produce that result.

This is almost as unfair as saying I was trying to sabotage the town... :undecided: :sad:

I mean, I think it's pretty clear with the accusations made against me that I was in a damned if you do damned if you don't situation from the start, and I doubt I could look any less scummy so that my detractors would give me a break. I would guess they are the reason taka has been on my case.

This game is starting to take an unpleasant turn again, and although I really don't like my hand forced, I don't want to be called a spoiler, no matter how unfair the charge is...

Unvote: taka
Vote: Beefy (sorry Beefy :bow: you will probably get the dead support though)

I'm pretty sure I will get lynched if I leave it to the dead, but hey, I'm in that same hard place again. :shrug: :uneasy:

It's up to some of you to now change the image of me that you have presented.

[Beefy187]

Assuming the lynched doesn't get their vote, its going to be 10 votes for my lynch and 3 for yours Reenk.

Good to see the town with a common sense. Lynch the scummiest looking guy :yes:

[TinCow]

Assuming the lynched doesn't get their vote, its going to be 10 votes for my lynch and 3 for yours Reenk.

Good to see the town with a common sense. Lynch the scummiest looking guy :yes:

This is exactly what I'm talking about. This is not a comment a townie would make after all that has occurred. He's using very basic reverse psychology, which is far too light an effort at this point in time. In this situation, the Godfather is far more likely to use this kind of subtlety. He's trying to finesse his way to a victory where brute force isn't an option.

[taka]

after so much analysis from everyone, it seems to me that beefy is scummy in their eyes which i concur to a certain point.

but it really strikes me on how reenk suddenly changes to beefy after swearing he would not do so AND after andres puts a vote on beefy first.

this was exactly something i was waiting to see if reenk would do - my so called "pact" with beefy was just to test if he would do something just like that.

im really torn between reenk and beefy, however i still think reenk is the smelly one

[Reenk Roink]

after so much analysis from everyone, it seems to me that beefy is scummy in their eyes which i concur to a certain point.

but it really strikes me on how reenk suddenly changes to beefy after swearing he would not do so AND after andres puts a vote on beefy first.

this was exactly something i was waiting to see if reenk would do - my so called "pact" with beefy was just to test if he would do something just like that.

im really torn between reenk and beefy, however i still think reenk is the smelly one

Are you freaking kidding me? You just didn't see how basically my hand was forced? :laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:

I'm beginning to think taka is the Godfather after all. I don't believe you would have ever changed your vote.

Let me make a list of dead voters:

Voting for Reenk: Atpg, Chaotix, khaan, White eyes(?), Ichigo(?)
Voting for Beefy: Sasaki, TinCow, shlin, Aries(?)

Then we have the people who haven't said much, and those are who I'm most worried about.

Edit: taka, here is the test for you:

Unvote: Beefy

[TinCow]

I don't understand what changing your vote at this point is supposed to prove.

Also, add Seamus to the Beefy deader vote.

[Beefy187]

Voting for Reenk: Atpg, Chaotix, khaan, White eyes(?), Ichigo(?), taka?
Voting for Beefy: Sasaki, TinCow, shlin, Aries(?), Seamus, Andres, QJC

Thats what I got soo far.

[taka]

I don't understand what changing your vote at this point is supposed to prove.


EXACTLY

so what about vote changing? you've been doing it for the past rounds, and not just changing once... or even twice, its like numberous times

i could change my vote onto beefy and then change it back to you the way you're doing it.

you constant vote changing IS one of the biggest reasons for me vote you and i don't think thats gonna change

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Maybe we can have a tie today and then another tie the next day!

[Reenk Roink]

Voting for Reenk: Atpg, Chaotix, khaan, White eyes(?), Ichigo(?), taka?
Voting for Beefy: Sasaki, TinCow, shlin, Aries(?), Seamus, Andres, QJC

Thats what I got soo far.

Good list, forgot QJC, I'm not so sure Seamus would go for you though (would you Seamus)? The thing is the two grunts will come into play... :laugh4:

taka, what the heck is wrong with vote changing huh? :huh: If you honestly vote for someone or think he is suspicious because he vote changes, then I don't know what to say? I vote change when there is a better person to vote and for strategic reasons.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I think there is considerably more pursuasive power on the anti-beefy side. Plus, people would rather lose to a ballsy mafioso than a standard mafioso.

[Beefy187]

Maybe we can have a tie today and then another tie the next day!

Whats the point of that besides causing a stalemate?

Ok.. Maybe that was a joke

[Reenk Roink]

I'm seriously reconsidering taka's guilt at the moment. I never liked anybody's but my case on Beefy in the first place, but taka has just given the worst reasons for suspecting me.

I am scum because I say I should have had you killed off (I should have obviously) or because I change my vote in the previous rounds and now.

Or because I vote for Beefy because you said you wouldn't change if I wouldn't and now you say I look scummy because I did?

Enough with this rock and hard place stuff! :laugh4:

[TinCow]

For those who think Reenk is guilty, please consider last night's write-up:


Day breaks in the Gameroom. All is quiet.

Quintus.JC walked home from the latest execution, thoroughly disturbed at everything that had went on. With his mind elsewhere, he prepared for another night of sleep that wouldn't come. Of course, it didn't, as he stared at his ceiling, contemplating long after the sun rose.

He didn't notice the sound of a window breaking, nor the sound of footsteps throughout his house, nor did he notice the door to his room being kicked in and a shadowy figure standing in the doorway, pointing a revolver right at him.

*BANG!!!*

QJC died.

The one thing that is remarkable about this is that it is so short. The above write-up was produced because it had to be produced. The person who wrote it took no pleasure in it, and it shows. This is not Reenk. Reenk could create a write-up that is replete with grammar errors and otherwise makes it impossible to ID him by its style. However, the one thing Reenk always does is be entertaining. This write-up is not entertaining in any way, and this is one area that I just don't see Reenk compromising on. A Reenk write-up would have been longer and the death far more interesting.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I was lynched, Tincow, not murdered. I am not sure if GH will draw a difference between the two or not should he come to allow a "dead vote."

I have my suspicions of all 4. Currently, for the reasons noted, Beefy is in the lead. taka-san is a not too distant 2nd and Reenkster 3rd by half a length. Only Andres is lagging on my meter.

[Reenk Roink]

Seamus, all the dead get to vote, I think GH put it "all deaders" (too lazy to look it up).


For those who think Reenk is guilty, please consider last night's write-up:



The one thing that is remarkable about this is that it is so short. The above write-up was produced because it had to be produced. The person who wrote it took no pleasure in it, and it shows. This is not Reenk. Reenk could create a write-up that is replete with grammar errors and otherwise makes it impossible to ID him by its style. However, the one thing Reenk always does is be entertaining. This write-up is not entertaining in any way, and this is one area that I just don't see Reenk compromising on. A Reenk write-up would have been longer and the death far more interesting.

Look at my writeups for Rise of the Mob as compared to my writeups for Mafia V (both games happened concurrently). Not only does the former have shorter writeups, but aside from a few, they aren't entertaining at all. I would certainly look to the writeups to cover my tracks. :grin2:

Though it is good to see an effort to clear my name among the dead. I believe you did a lot more damage than Atpg in that matter. :laugh4:

[Beefy187]

I was lynched, Tincow, not murdered. I am not sure if GH will draw a difference between the two or not should he come to allow a "dead vote."

I have my suspicions of all 4. Currently, for the reasons noted, Beefy is in the lead. taka-san is a not too distant 2nd and Reenkster 3rd by half a length. Only Andres is lagging on my meter.

Good to know that Cow can run faster then Reenkster:clown:

Sorry if I'm sounding silly. I'm in a silly mood right now

[TinCow]

Look at my writeups for Rise of the Mob as compared to my writeups for Mafia V (both games happened concurrently). Not only does the former have shorter writeups, but aside from a few, they aren't entertaining at all. I would certainly look to the writeups to cover my tracks. :grin2:

Yeesh, this is a first one for me. I've never had to convince someone that write-ups weren't theirs before! :laugh4: The examples you cite don't show what you claim.

First of all, you were in two major games at the same time. Mafia V obviously took precedent, and you put a ton of work into those write-ups. I have no idea what other mafia games you're playing at the moment, but I highly doubt that any of them would take priority over this one. You would give this game your top effort, just like you did in Mafia V.

Second, even in Rise of the Mob, your write-ups are entertaining. Perhaps not to the same level as the Wanax, but they are still amusing in their own way. That's the game in which you actually produced the now-infamous bomb-vest kill (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1332487&postcount=194). It's short, but it's amusing and clever in its own way. The fact that you would consider this to not be entertaining only further proves my point. Your standards on mafia entertainment are very high (for which we are all thankful, btw :bow:). Even your minor efforts are fun.

Third, your write-ups were short in Rise of the Mob because you were short on time, and even suicided out (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1347571&postcount=425) of the game for this reason. In the current situation, you've got a major game which is a revival of one of the most revered (or so I am told) mafia series in the Gameroom. You've survived all the way to the last phase, and you've produced absolutely monumental write-ups for the lynchings. You're putting a great deal of effort into this game, and thus even the time excuse you would have had for the shorter Rise of the Mob write-ups doesn't fit here.

In summary, if you were the Godfather, you would have written last night's kill write-up. There's no way you would have gotten this far, and then given that duty to one of your dead grunts. It would be a point of honor for you. This is also by far the 'biggest' game in the Gameroom at the moment, and one of the tops of all time already. You would not put in a half-baked performance here. You also have tons of time on your hands, so you wouldn't shirk the write-up for that reason. The result is simply that that write-up wasn't done by you. It's just lacking in the fun factor that is the focus of everything you do in mafia. Just because you've written shorter write-ups in previous games doesn't change that.

[Reenk Roink]

Well, yes the write up wasn't done by me, but I must disagree that there is any indication of it. :laugh4:

Of course there is my beloved bulletproof vest kill, which was my all time favorite but then in that game many of the kills are boring. The Sigurd kill is decent but short, but the other kills are pretty bad (Kommodus and Sasaki were awful :laugh4:, Csar/Ichigo extended them). I didn't even give descriptions for a couple of kills.

This was completely planned by the way, not because I was spending more time on Mafia V (in fact it's what got me caught too). In that game, what isn't shown is an incredibly long and complex PM trail where Sasaki acted like the mediator pretending to be my friend while giving all the info to Kage. I kinda figured Sasaki was playing me from the start (remember "Oh cool" Sasaki :laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:) and so I tried to pull other strings but I had really screwed myself there. :2thumbsup:

The suicide was definitely not because of time issues again, it was because Ichigo and I wanted to mess with the town.

By the way The Wanax kills from #2 on in Mafia V were all written in a boring 2 hour psychology lecture. :laugh4: In fact, I have been a bit late in sending GH these Wanax executions.


------------------------------------

Edit - nobody at all will question taka eh?:

Vote: Beefy then :shrug:

[Gaius Scribonius Curio]

Haven't really had time to gain a proper understanding of everything that has occured today, but I believe Andres and Reenk are probably innocent.

Beefy seems to be in real trouble, but Taka too has questions to answer. certainly his accusation of reenk for changing his vote is a little out of the ordinary. With four candidates, none cleared, and victory to the mafia with a wrong choice, you'd want to be sure of yourself, and to pressure others, by applying a vote, is one of the few methods that could result in more discussion....

[Beefy187]

I rather have Andres lynched then Reenkster. But unvoting Reenk will get me killed :sweatdrop:

taka can have his victory if he is the God Father. I gave up on him :laugh4:

I'm not in trouble. The towns are if they end up lynching me....

[pevergreen]

I rather have Andres lynched then Reenkster. But unvoting Reenk will get me killed :sweatdrop:

taka can have his victory if he is the God Father. I gave up on him :laugh4:

I'm not in trouble. The towns are if they end up lynching me....

This is not like beefy at all. He is always fine with being lynched...

[Beefy187]

This is not like beefy at all. He is always fine with being lynched...

Not on the last round :sweatdrop:

[Quintus.JC]

For those who think Reenk is guilty, please consider last night's write-up:



The one thing that is remarkable about this is that it is so short. The above write-up was produced because it had to be produced. The person who wrote it took no pleasure in it, and it shows. This is not Reenk. Reenk could create a write-up that is replete with grammar errors and otherwise makes it impossible to ID him by its style. However, the one thing Reenk always does is be entertaining. This write-up is not entertaining in any way, and this is one area that I just don't see Reenk compromising on. A Reenk write-up would have been longer and the death far more interesting.

Good point Tincow. The last kill write-up was extremely different in length and style with the previous kill write-ups, which in a way suggests that White_Eyes was one of the grunts.

In another way I feel the write-up could indicate towards Taka, whom has never hosted (don't if true or not) a mafia game before. All the other three Andres, Beefy and Reenk would of been no stranger to write-ups, and could provide long and detailed write-ups with similarities to ones being produced before White_Eyes' lynch.

I know there are many other possibilities why the write-up could be so different, but in the end it does still point towards Taka. Although I'd still stick my vote to Beefy if it comes down to it. As Pevergreen pointed out Beefy seems very talkative and uncomfortable with being lynched, normally Beefy doesn't seems to argue this much, also the GF has played magnificently that many townies appears to agree of letting the GF win the game because of his brilliant play. The Beefy I know would do that, and probably wouldn't mind letting the GF win based on the skill of the GF, and despite Beefy's argument of being in the last round, it just doesn't seem right to me.

[GeneralHankerchief]

There's a chance I may not be around at exactly 14:00 to end the lynch (taking advantage of the snow to play Axis & Allies with friends :2thumbsup"). However, voting will still close at that time.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Voting closed.

Give me a while.

[Quintus.JC]

Eagerly anticipating.... :beam:

Brilliant game btw GH, this will undoubtly be remembered as one of the classics. We own this to you GH and the godfather (for staying alive for so long), who ever you may be. :bow:

[LittleGrizzly]

Amazing game!!!

Can't wait to see who the GF is!

My suspects... partially influenced by the last few pages are in this order

1. Reenk
2. Beefy
3. Taka
4. Andres...

Whoever it is did a damn good job of it...

[Askthepizzaguy]

What was the tally?

[Reenk Roink]

What was the tally?

I'm still alive... :wink:

[shlin28]

ATPG is using invisible mode! HE HAS SOMETHING TO HIDE!!!

Now you are going to be accused by that in every single game you join :2thumbsup:

[Askthepizzaguy]

Tally:

Taka votes Reenk 1758
Beefy votes Reenk 1884
Andres votes Beefy 1921
Reenk Votes Beefy 1923

Reenk: 2 (Taka, Beefy)
Beefy: 2 (Andres, Reenk)

Is this what everyone else has?


I do appreciate his anaylsis and hard work, but he does needs to cut down on some the unnecessary rants though.

I am going to spoiler all my posts from now on, unless the information is vital or it's a vote change.

And yes, I am now permanently on invisible mode, because all the cool kids are doing it.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I expected this game to be over... :no:

When 2PM rolled around today, I breathed a sigh of relief. I thought to myself: Good, now I don't have to try anymore. They either listened to the evidence, and the testimonies, and watched the voting behavior and made the correct choice, or they did not.

:shrug:

It's no longer my concern or responsibility, and I can finally take a break after this massive game. But instead, I log on to find out if the Godfather smoked us all, and instead, we have a tie.
:laugh2:

Can I just ask... when Beefy didn't vote for himself, and tried to win the game for his side, which is town, why people questioned him for saving himself? And why was that question not proposed to Reenk Roink, who voted for everybody else last round to save himself? Double standard is all. One player seems concerned that town is going to win, and the other player seems concerned that he is going to live. That's my analysis, but I'm spoilering it because I understand people have had their fill of my opinion for one game... for any game.
:laugh2:

I would plead with the town... who among us doesn't admire how well Beefy played the game, if he were the Godfather? How many times did he self-vote? It was more than once. Let me get my notes...


Beefy187, post 408. Early game, no pressure on him really:


In that case, I got more then enough time to defend my self don't I? (I am in Japan now. So Im GST +9 or something)

Vote:Beefy

I don't think Sasaki is guilty either so just to save him.

I am more then willing to defend my self. But I don't know where to start. Could you give me couple of questions I can answer?

Okay. Well, that seems reasonable enough. Didn't he vote for himself at other times, too?

And correct me if I am wrong, but Beefy was doing his University exam from the 23-25th. He had no posts here during that stretch. AT ALL. On the forum.


02-25-2009, 03:44
Replies: 1,953
The Godfather, Part 3 (IN PLAY)
Views: 16,626
Posted By Beefy187
Re: The Godfather, Part 3 (IN PLAY)

In case for those who went to see who is on and saw my name, and preparing a case against as I speak as I'm online even though I said I won't be..

I was actually expecting this game to finish...

Forum: Gameroom 02-23-2009, 22:21
Replies: 1,953
The Godfather, Part 3 (IN PLAY)
Views: 16,626
Posted By Beefy187
Re: The Godfather, Part 3 (IN PLAY)

And thanks to this conversation, my place for the final lot of survivors is sealed..
"What about Beefy?"
"Leave him.. Lynch bait:yes:"

I'll hate to have another Kung Fu mafia situation :wall:...


He was not here to do the murder that night.

He's been passive and defending no one all game, pretty much. He's been kept alive as a scapegoat and a lynch victim. I read and read, but I could not find one compelling case against Beefy. Where is the case? Please give me a link. I want to read it.

I asked Reenk last round for a case against Taka, and he ignored me, but kept his vote on him. He changed his vote all over the place to save his own butt, but did not give a case, a real case, for why anyone but himself should be lynched.

If any townie, ANY townie, were to have behaved exactly as Reenk Roink has all game, he would have been lynched a long time ago. But everyone chalks it up to "Reenk being Reenk."

Well, Beefy is being Beefy! That's not a case, that's not even rational! Reenk would of course be Reenk as the Godfather, so would Beefy!

:wall:

Is there anyone here, anyone, who can tell me why Beefy is the better lynch. I'll look at Reenk's posts and Andres posts and respond if I can. If there is anyone here who can please point me to those cases, it would save me a lot of time.


I just think our final lynch choice, whatever it may be, should be based on logic and evidence, not "bah, Reenk is always this way."

Maybe I am oversimplifying, and I apologize. Frankly, at this point, I am almost inclined to vote for Beefy when and if the dead can vote. Why not? He earned it if he can do the things that he did all game and escape the final lynch. Point blank, town was divided on the final vote, and so therefore there was no majority to lynch the Godfather.

So, in my mind, the Godfather wins. He killed all of you, all this time, and still managed to convince about half of you that he was innocent. So, let him win. You wanted sportsmanship? You wanted it to be about fun? Reenk made it fun, and he escaped your wrath, so he should win.

I'm not angry or bitter, indeed I congratulate Reenk for his success. I certainly could never have acted anywhere remotely like that and survived. Heck, one round after I presented SkyNet, I was lynched for trying to help, when most of you thought I was innocent.

If Reenk can blatantly vote for anyone who votes for him, can accuse people without evidence, can not look for viable suspects all game, if he can defend scummy people and have scummy people defend him (TevashSzat, Sasaki Kojiro, Lord Winter maybe), then what's the point? Reenk Roink could be the Godfather, beefy could be, taka could be, Andres could be... but if you don't vote based on the odds, the evidence, the actions, the suspects, the defenses, everything together, then I don't see why you can THEN turn around and question Beefy for trying to win the game as a townie by finally voting for Reenk, reluctantly.

It's a double standard. Everyone in the game should be held to the same standard, if you're going to vote based on scummy behavior. Hey, I don't mind! Call it what it is; a more or less random vote based on intuition.

Well, I can't say that, I have to go look at the cases presented against Beefy. Some help in that matter would be appreciated.

This post is long winded and spoilered for your protection.

I need help finding the case against Beefy, if anyone could send me links, thank you!

:bow:

[Reenk Roink]

Time to deal the killing blow to another version of "rational" analysis! :charge:

[shlin28]

I bet 50 trillion dollars of my winnings from ATPG on that the mafia consists of:

Beefy - Godfather
ATPG - Grunt
Lord Winter - Grunt

Voting patterns may say otherwise but I'm rich and don't care! :clown:

oh, and 100000 trillion dollars to each of the 3 others if they are the Godfather :bow:

[Askthepizzaguy]

I think there is considerably more pursuasive power on the anti-beefy side. Plus, people would rather lose to a ballsy mafioso than a standard mafioso.

People would rather win than lose. Why have you been trying to convince the town to be suicidal, to tie, and otherwise "let Reenk have it"? It's interesting testimony, from someone who was vigilante'd. However, since I am now getting into a credibility argument, and since I've made bad accusations this game, I won't go there. That's not the point. The point is, if you're a townie, you have a duty to try to get the town to win the game, even in a halfhearted fun-loving fashion. I don't see even a little effort to win from Sasaki, not if it involves killing Roink.


Are you freaking kidding me? You just didn't see how basically my hand was forced? :laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:

I'm beginning to think taka is the Godfather after all. I don't believe you would have ever changed your vote.

Let me make a list of dead voters:

Voting for Reenk: Atpg, Chaotix, khaan, White eyes(?), Ichigo(?)
Voting for Beefy: Sasaki, TinCow, shlin, Aries(?)

Then we have the people who haven't said much, and those are who I'm most worried about.

Edit: taka, here is the test for you:

Unvote: Beefy

No case against Beefy here.


This is almost as unfair as saying I was trying to sabotage the town... :undecided: :sad:

I mean, I think it's pretty clear with the accusations made against me that I was in a damned if you do damned if you don't situation from the start, and I doubt I could look any less scummy so that my detractors would give me a break. I would guess they are the reason taka has been on my case.

This game is starting to take an unpleasant turn again, and although I really don't like my hand forced, I don't want to be called a spoiler, no matter how unfair the charge is...

Unvote: taka
Vote: Beefy (sorry Beefy :bow: you will probably get the dead support though)

I'm pretty sure I will get lynched if I leave it to the dead, but hey, I'm in that same hard place again. :shrug: :uneasy:

It's up to some of you to now change the image of me that you have presented.

No case against Beefy here.


Ok, if my deceased team mates want us to continue this as it is supposed, then trying to lynch the GF we will :bow:

You may be dead, but you're still part of the town team, so your voice should not be ignored.

Reenk, Beefy187 and taka, please forget about your "pact". Your loyalty should be with your team, the townies (well, this goes for 2 of you, one of you probably prefers to stick to this "pact")

Unvote : no lynch
Vote : Beefy187

Let's end this today.

No case against Beefy here.


Well Beefy is the Godfather. However, I will stay true to my pact (plus I don't want the dead to come in where it is certain death for me). :bow:

My thoughts on all that transpired: Atpg's case was pretty unconvincing on the whole just like throughout the game, he essentially preached to the choir (Chaotix). Then there are the others who came to conclusions about me by themselves (like seireikhaan). Dunno why taka voted against me, at first I thought he was Godfather. I came to the conclusion that it was Beefy after this post:



It seemed throughout the entire conversation last night, Beefy wanted me to go against Andres. I think Beefy wanted to spare me the final lynch because he is such a nice guy (and maybe also because I defended him). Sure enough though, when he saw my stance on ties and taka wouldn't change, he made that post to then follow up with an actual vote, easing to the jarring of a vote on me, which he earlier said he would never do because he thought I was innocent.

Then he did follow it up with an vote. I don't think Beefy thinks me guilty at all (he is Godfather, but even in his townie act). But for some reason, taka has been on my case for some reason (I pray not Atpg's refuted cases), and remains stubborn, willing to throw his own life at risk as well.

Well, taka, here is the plain case against Beefy. I don't know if it will change your mind or not, but just remember, I won't bbe acting against Beefy, so if you want to lynch the Godfather, you know what to do. :yes:

I of course will keep my vote on you because you voted against me and I cannot let that go unpunished. :bow:

Here's the case: Beefy voted for Reenk Roink, after being reluctant to do so all game, and so therefore ipso facto he must be scum.

Oh, and my case against Reenk Roink was refuted where exactly? :laugh4:


That's not my point.

My point is that those who have voted W_E are almost certain to be innocent. So you and Beefy187 are left.

Personally, I think it's Beefy187, but if it has to be a tie, then I would very much prefer a tie between you and Beefy187.


EDIT: GAH! There goes the theory of W_E must have been scum:



I still believe Reenk is innocent though.

No case against Beefy here.


Beefy. Dearest Beefster. You have been on my "hmmmmm" list since very early in the game. Despite what others have said, and you have claimed, about your activity level, you just seem so much more "present" in this game than in any other I can recall. All of your posts seem genial and reasonable -- yet you frequently allude to gentleman's agreements etc. as your rationale for votes and pursuits. All in all, you have been involved, informed, reasonably responsive when prodded, but have not EVER gone after someone, pushed for information, or really taken point on anything. It's almost like you're a politician at a party which hasn't been "polled." Everyone will recall you were there, nobody will think you were doing something offensive, but nobody can really point to anything you did or said except to say that you seemed to be enjoying yourself.


All in all, if I were the one to pick, I'd probably vote Beefy. It's close, as I find taka a goodly bit and Reenk somewhat suspect as well. If its Andres, then he's bested me here. Still, in the final analysis, I'd say its 187Beefyz by a steer's nose.

The case against Beefy: He is "present", even though he was absent on the 24th, and the 23rd.

And Beefy never went after anyone, except Reenk Roink, and only then, reluctantly. And Beefy's crime is that he's having fun, but Reenk isn't?

Please, feel free to point out to me the case, because I am having trouble finding it.
I know, I know, I know that SOUNDS like sarcasm, but honestly, truthfully, I'm still having fun and I'm happy, I'm happy, I'm happy.

Where is the case, though? Is it bad to ask? Am I breaking a rule?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Okay. Well, that seems reasonable enough. Didn't he vote for himself at other times, too?

I actually found this suspicious because he wasn't putting himself ahead or tied in the vote and he specifically asked how much time was left to make sure he would have time to remove it.


And correct me if I am wrong, but Beefy was doing his University exam from the 23-25th. He had no posts here during that stretch. AT ALL. On the forum.



He was not here to do the murder that night.

Godfather doesn't do the murder until he's th only one left.


He's been passive and defending no one all game, pretty much. He's been kept alive as a scapegoat and a lynch victim. I read and read, but I could not find one compelling case against Beefy. Where is the case? Please give me a link. I want to read it.

If no one has made a compelling case, then how would he be a scapegoat? On the contrary he's still alive even though no one suspected him much.


If any townie, ANY townie, were to have behaved exactly as Reenk Roink has all game, he would have been lynched a long time ago. But everyone chalks it up to "Reenk being Reenk."

Well, Beefy is being Beefy! That's not a case, that's not even rational! Reenk would of course be Reenk as the Godfather, so would Beefy!

:wall:

This is wrong. People are saying that beefy isn't acting like beefy. Saying that someone is acting like themself is perfectly legitimate.


Is there anyone here, anyone, who can tell me why Beefy is the better lynch. I'll look at Reenk's posts and Andres posts and respond if I can. If there is anyone here who can please point me to those cases, it would save me a lot of time.

Many people have made many posts.




It's a double standard. Everyone in the game should be held to the same standard, if you're going to vote based on scummy behavior. Hey, I don't mind! Call it what it is; a more or less random vote based on intuition.

This post is long winded and spoilered for your protection.


I think the fact that your upset about the "double standard" might be biasing you against reenk.



Please, feel free to point out to me the case, because I am having trouble finding it.
I know, I know, I know that SOUNDS like sarcasm, but honestly, truthfully, I'm still having fun and I'm happy, I'm happy, I'm happy.

Where is the case, though? Is it bad to ask? Am I breaking a rule?

What? Go back over the last few days and read all the posts.


People would rather win than lose. Why have you been trying to convince the town to be suicidal, to tie, and otherwise "let Reenk have it"? It's interesting testimony, from someone who was vigilante'd. However, since I am now getting into a credibility argument, and since I've made bad accusations this game, I won't go there. That's not the point. The point is, if you're a townie, you have a duty to try to get the town to win the game, even in a halfhearted fun-loving fashion. I don't see even a little effort to win from Sasaki, not if it involves killing Roink.

Seriously? I explained it four times and now that you have proof that the godfather didn't switch his vote at the last second you still think a tie was suicidal?

I've also made dozens of posts trying to get white_eyes and beefy lynched. Because they are mafia.

[Reenk Roink]

This line is the only one I will respond to (again):


I just think our final lynch choice, whatever it may be, should be based on logic and evidence

Firstly, "logic" in the broadest and technical (most important) sense is concerned with syntactical form.

Let's go ahead and assume that logic is a good way of moving forward (very debatable). My voting for others based on say retaliation is clearly a valid form:

If someone votes for me, then he is guilty
Someone voted for me
----------------------------------------
He/she is guilty

This reasoning form is modus ponens, it is the epitome of "logical" reasoning. Do you now see how weak a tool logic is? Logic does not concern itself with truth Atpg.

As to your "logical" cases against me, they have been proven on several cases to have inconsistencies both internal and external (you never responded to these charges). How can you justify your system as logical if you violate the most important primitive axiom of logic - the law of non contradiction?

Now to "evidence" all of it has been construed on cliches and presuppositions of what is and what isn't good townie behavior. I don't think I even need to bother refuting that which I can just dismiss. :wink:

[shlin28]

Case against Beefy:

1. He is abnormally active.

2. His self-votes DID not actually endanger him.

3. He seemed rather desperate to survive the final round but not being too desperate about it.

That's all I can think of in 1 minute :bow:

[Thermal]

and a trillion or two for my awesomeness? :clown:

[shlin28]

Maybe a few million... not a trillion though, I do have to live in luxury in a tropical island after all :book:

[Askthepizzaguy]

I bet 50 trillion dollars of my winnings from ATPG on that the mafia consists of:

Beefy - Godfather
ATPG - Grunt
Lord Winter - Grunt

Voting patterns may say otherwise but I'm rich and don't care! :clown:

oh, and 100000 trillion dollars to each of the 3 others if they are the Godfather :bow:


HAHAHAHAHAHHAAAA!!!!

YES I AM THE SCUM!!! YES, YES, I AM THE SCUM!!! I've been a scum all this time.

:laugh4:

I give up, you win. And Beefy is the Godfather, yes, you are correct. And Lord Winter is the grunt. Sooooo right.

How did you know?

:laugh4:

I was hoping I'd be able to win my money back for my bet that you were the Godfather. I was wrong about you, I admit it. I am sorry. You know, as others have argued all game, townies make mistakes.

Seriously. If you think I am the mafia, at this point, I honestly don't know what to say, except hold your applause until the end of the game, and start writing the check.

I am not the issue here. And my defense of Beefy, now, on SOUND reasoning, whereas Reenk defended Beefy all game FOR NO REASON, only to betray him in the last round to save his hide? Where are your standards, or do you have two of them?

:laugh2:

I'm having fun, no disrespect, how ya doin'. :shakehands: ~:grouphug: :heart:

I find I have to do that so people will realize I'm allowed to be serious and not be mad or anything at the same time. Is it wrong to ask questions, on the most critical vote of the game, specifically the ones about what is the case against Beefy, and why are we ignoring, totally ignoring and giving a pass to Reenk Roink, and all the scummy things he's done this game?

:shrug:

Hey, if anyone wants me to shush, I will just sayyyyyyyy the word. Seriously, even I am tired of hearing myself talk.

[LittleGrizzly]

If someone votes for me, then he is guilty
Someone voted for me
----------------------------------------
He/she is guilty

This isn't logic... or i guess it could be called somewhat twisted logic

more logical would be....

I am innocent
X voted for me
X voted for an innocent so is more likely to be guilty

Saying X is guilty because he voted you is no kind of logic at all...

Still excited!

[Askthepizzaguy]

This line is the only one I will respond to (again):



Firstly, "logic" in the broadest and technical (most important) sense is concerned with syntactical form.

Let's go ahead and assume that logic is a good way of moving forward (very debatable). My voting for others based on say retaliation is clearly a valid form:

If someone votes for me, then he is guilty
Someone voted for me
----------------------------------------
He/she is guilty

This reasoning form is modus ponens, it is the epitome of "logical" reasoning. Do you now see how weak a tool logic is? Logic does not concern itself with truth Atpg.

As to your "logical" cases against me, they have been proven on several cases to have inconsistencies both internal and external (you never responded to these charges). How can you justify your system as logical if you violate the most important primitive axiom of logic - the law of non contradiction?

Now to "evidence" all of it has been construed on cliches and presuppositions of what is and what isn't good townie behavior. I don't think I even need to bother refuting that which I can just dismiss. :wink:

Interesting that Reenk Roink tries to use a logical argument to argue against logic, which is a self-defeating thing to do. I don't even need to do a rebuttal. And you never made a case against Beefy.

Sasaki's rebuttal was, in summary, "go look for the case". There were no links.

[shlin28]

What about my short and succint version of the case against Beefy? :book:

[Reenk Roink]

LittleGrizzly, formalize the argument to this

p -> q
p
therefore q

Again, logic is concerned with forms, put anything you want in p and q, and it's logical.

Askthepizzaguy, you blatantly misrepresented my post saying I used logic to argue against logic when I went ahead and assumed logic was good for the time being (and if someone really wanted to use logic to criticize logic, it would be ok, as he is demonstrating an argument to someone who presupposes the use of logic - his own argument against logic could be logic sucks). Why don't you try and read the post, and try responding to the charges against your own contradictions of your cases?

I am pointing out the flaws with using buzzwords like "logic" and "evidence" to prop up a weak case.


...
I keep asking myself why I continue, and then I remember, let's pass Capo I! :laugh4:

[seireikhaan]

Alright, y'all. Quiet down, peeps. I don't wanna have to sift through 5 pages of jabbering when I get back from my Business Statistics midterm... :whip:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Sasaki's rebuttal was, in summary, "go look for the case". There were no links.

That's a lie, and if you're too lazy to go read the last two days you have no business posting so much :laugh4:

[Reenk Roink]

That's a lie, and if you're too lazy to go read the last two days you have no business posting so much :laugh4:

You do misrepresent a lot of things Atpg. I think it's unintentional, you overwhelm yourself with information which leads to that, along with inconsistencies.

I've clearly made a case against Beefy and a case against taka is also there, more implicit.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Ya know what?

I had fun. Let Reenk win. Good game. :medievalcheers:

As for shlin28, I have a rebuttal for you here, but it doesn't matter. I tip over my king and shake hands and say good game. :shakehands:

I will not be returning to this thread until it is conclusively, exhaustively, and finally OVER. And I will not be casting a vote against Reenk Roink when the dead can vote, because there was never any case against Beefy except

1. He is abnormally active.

Prove it. And why are we punishing Beefy for being ACTIVE when Reenk Roink is just as active?

2. His self-votes DID not actually endanger him.


No, but, self votes do tend to get people to suspect you and try to lynch you. See: any time I have voted for myself. See: YLC's self vote. Etc.


3. He seemed rather desperate to survive the final round but not being too desperate about it.

Yeah, because he doesn't care about losing the game! He's calm and relaxed. Unlike Reenk Roink, who was freaking desperate to lynch ANYONE BUT HIMSELF.

DOUBLE STANDARDS. DOUBLE STANDARDS. DOUBLE STANDARDS. That's all.

No case against Beefy. None! So what's the point of defending him, if there is nothing to defend him against?

Vague intuition? Gut feeling? Tarot cards? Fortune cookies? Tell me, how did you glean that Beefy was guilty? And did the tea leaves say anything about Reenk Roink?

I'm just saying. And I'm having fun, and I don't mean this in a disrespectful way. I like all of you guys. I just have the right to point out silly things.

Reenk Roink, you are a character. Never change, my friend. You deserve this one, because town has failed to properly explain why you aren't a legitimate suspect on evidenciary and logical grounds, and why Beefy is a suspect on no grounds.

:medievalcheers:

I am not angry, please, do not think so. I do admit a little, little bit of frustration, and I'm not taking it out on any of you. And since we aren't having a discussion about evidence or reasoning, then, there is no reason why I should give evidence or reasoning, and I'm afraid that's all I know how to do... I don't want to gamble the game on a hunch. But, I've asked for a case to give a rebuttal to, and I couldn't find one myself, and none was presented.

As such, my services are no longer required, I've made all my points, and they were never refuted! Reenk Roink argued that it is illogical to use logic.


Do you now see how weak a tool logic is? Logic does not concern itself with truth Atpg.

Sasaki failed to present a case. Everyone has failed in that regard, when it comes to Beefy. And because Beefy is such a nice guy, he would never, ever try to defend himself this much, and so I am breaking my cardinal rule of defending people, just for him. Because Reenk Roink was allowed to do it all game and not get called on it, nor get called on turning his back on him. :shrug:

It's just... ironic... that everything that can be tossed against beefy can be easily turned aside, and since none of the arguments against Reenk Roink can be turned aside, they are... ignored? What's a better word? Discarded, rejected, you name it. But everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I am just, at the last, pointing out that everyone has opinions, but not everyone has reasons.

God bless. (I'm not even religious)

I love you guys. I will miss you if any of you leave, and I am still very sorry if I offended any of you or annoyed you. God I wore out my welcome a long time ago here... I just wanted to do my best, that's all.

:bow:

[Reenk Roink]

Vague intuition? Gut feeling? Tarot cards? Fortune cookies? Tell me, how did you glean that Beefy was guilty? And did the tea leaves say anything about Reenk Roink?

You speak of intuition as well as other things as if they have less epistemic merit than your system of "rationality" (which is really questionable according to its own standards anyway). I like intuition, it serves well, and even has a practical streak similar to analytical methods.

Atpg, you seem somewhat upset that I get away with PERCIEVED BEHAVIOR that you THINK OTHERS WOULDN'T get away with, am I correct?

Why is this such a big deal?

If it makes you feel better (though I still don't understand why you would) do you know how many times I've been lynched early game due to my behavior and reputation?

You win some and lose some, you get away sometimes and get caught others. Big deal. :shrug:

You again misrepresented my statements about logic by the way.... :undecided:

[LittleGrizzly]

Can we just stop having these 'last posts' just keep posting (preferably). Im happy for the analysis, but maybe if you could make it a little shorter and concise... or if you could spoiler minor points of your cases against people so its easy to read the short version. Or the overview considering how much there is to remember...

Again, logic is concerned with forms, put anything you want in p and q, and it's logical.

I don't know if were thinking differently on the word logic, but i basically see logic as reasoned thinking. So without logically thinking of who to vote, we are voting randomly or going on some kind of gut instinct (which occasionally has logic behind it anyway). If you are simply disregarding the logic the person is using (the reason to thier reasoned thinking) thats ok but it seemed to me you were disregarding logical thinking as a way to vote... ?

[GeneralHankerchief]

Enough.

Tally/writeup started.

[Reenk Roink]

Can we just stop having these 'last posts' just keep posting (preferably). Im happy for the analysis, but maybe if you could make it a little shorter and concise... or if you could spoiler minor points of your cases against people so its easy to read the short version. Or the overview considering how much there is to remember...

Again, logic is concerned with forms, put anything you want in p and q, and it's logical.

I don't know if were thinking differently on the word logic, but i basically see logic as reasoned thinking. So without logically thinking of who to vote, we are voting randomly or going on some kind of gut instinct (which occasionally has logic behind it anyway). If you are simply disregarding the logic the person is using (the reason to thier reasoned thinking) thats ok but it seemed to me you were disregarding logical thinking as a way to vote... ?

I think of logic as the (many) formal system(s) of inference. I just don't like it when Atpg says that his cases are "logical" when they only are such a thing in a weak, colloquial sense (and the same can be said about any other case to be frank).


I've made all my points, and they were never refuted!

Yes they were.


Reenk Roink argued that it is illogical to use logic.

Not in this thread. :laugh4:

This statement clearly is not what you attribute to me as mentioned several times:

"Do you now see how weak a tool logic is? Logic does not concern itself with truth Atpg."

The first sentence is a (rhetorical) question. The second sentence is correct.

Ah, just get the voting done deaders. :bow:

[taka]

23 more posts til 2000, keep spamming people :P :laugh4:

[Beefy187]

I bet 50 trillion dollars of my winnings from ATPG on that the mafia consists of:

Beefy - Godfather
ATPG - Grunt
Lord Winter - Grunt

Voting patterns may say otherwise but I'm rich and don't care! :clown:

oh, and 100000 trillion dollars to each of the 3 others if they are the Godfather :bow:

We have a deal Shlin :yes:

[GeneralHankerchief]

The day dragged on and on. Despite the desperateness of the situation facing the town, the remaining villagers of the Gameroom appeared to have accepted their fate one way or the other. Very few of their votes seemed to be based on who they actually thought was the mafia. As a matter of fact, it would seem that the reasons why they case their votes were actually quite petty, or more likely deeper, beyond face-value comprehension.

No matter the reason, they voted. And when Chief of Police Reenk Roink called time, the villages presented him with a tie. Of course.

"SO," The Wanax proclaimed. "AFTER ALL OF THE EXTRA TIME I HAVE GIVEN YOU PEONS TO MAKE A FINAL, DECIDING VOTE, YOU PRESENT ME WITH THIS." Even in the black, expressionless void where his face should have been, The Wanax still brought forth the impression of anger and rage. The force emanating from his person was so that the villagers, even by now dulled to every event, all soiled themselves in fear.

Popping a grape off his hat and examining it, The Wanax continued to speak, calming down slightly. "I suppose this was to be expected," he said, taking out the phasgana and examining it thoughtfully as well before putting it away. "Here we have four separate villagers, each with their own individual motivations and beliefs, values and fears. Naturally, as the number of voters and choices whittle down, the probability that the outcome will result in a tie increases."

Plopping the grape into the area of the void where his mouth should have been, he suddenly pointed a quivering finger out in the crowd. "AUDIENCE!!!" he boomed, causing the other villagers to shiver with fear. "WE HAVE BEEN PRESENTED WITH A TIE VOTE. HOW MANY OF YOU BELIEVE THAT I WILL JUST KEEP YOU HERE FOREVER UNTIL ONE OF YOU EVIDENTLY CRACKS AND SWITCHES YOUR DECISION?"

Slowly, everybody raised their hands.

"Of course you would," The Wanax mused. "After all, that has always been the outcome of this particular scenario in the past, has it not?" Again, slowly, all the villagers nodded after casting their minds back to the few times the vote had ended in a tie in the past.

The Wanax continued. "YOU," he said, pointing at Beefy187. "IS IT LOGICAL TO BELIEVE THAT THE LAWS OF PHYSICS WILL HOLD FOR AN INDEFINITE AMOUNT OF TIME INTO THE FUTURE?"

Beefy paused, clearly not expecting this line of questioning from The Wanax. "Uh, well," he stumbled, "I suppose, yes. I mean, after all, were the laws of physics to not hold, then surely the universe as we know it would cease to exist."

"A perfectly reasonable and expected answer coming from such an unenlightened person as yourself," The Wanax replied, and Beefy wasn't sure if he was being complimented or not. "Clearly, your basic level of education has served you well, for you knew that if physics stopped making sense then the universe itself would no longer be. HOWEVER!" he yelled, and everybody jumped, soiling themselves again. "HOW CAN YOU BE CERTAIN?"

There was silence.

Plucking another grape from his hat and popping it into the area of the void where his mouth should have been, The Wanax continued. "What we are presented with here is the basic problem of induction, as outlined in Hume's An Enquiry concerning Human Understanding. Just because we are aware of a particular phenomenon always happening in one particular instance does not mean that that phenomenon happening in that instance is always the case. For example, if you were a woman, raised solely by a woman, and in your entire life had only ever come into contact with other women, then it would be reasonable to hypothesize that the species Homo Sapiens only had one gender. However, this is of course incorrect, as we all know that humans have more than one gender. Likewise with the physics problem I presented to you earlier. Just because they have held throughout our comparably short existence does not mean that they will cease to do so at a later point in time."

"But how does this relate to the vote" somebody asked.

"I WAS GETTING TO THAT!!!" The Wanax thundered, and his voice was so full of quick anger that everybody soiled themselves for a third time. "The problem of induction relates to this instance quite well. Just because you have all been used to ties being broken in one particular way does not mean that this is the only way. For instance... I could do this instead."

Everybody watched as, one by one, The Wanax plucked the remainder of the grapes from his hat. However, instead of consuming them, he this time threw them all on the ground. A great purple mist engulfed everything, until a second later when the Gameroom Square was finally repopulated. Along with the living villagers, there stood their 24 dead comrades, re-animated and sentient once again. However, they were transparent, their insides being a smoky purple mist.

"I HAVE DECIDED TO LET THE DEAD TEMPORARILY ASSIST YOU IN THIS FINAL TASK. THEY SHALL DISAPPEAR ONCE THIS IS COMPLETE. YOU ALL MUST VOTE FOR EITHER BEEFY187 OR MY HOST, REENK ROINK. THEN WE SHALL END THIS, ONCE AND FOR ALL. I WILL BE WAITING."

Day 12 tally:

Beefy187: 2 (Reenk Roink, Andres)
Reenk Roink: 2 (taka, Beefy187)

~~~~~~~~~~~

So it all comes down to this. All players, dead and living, must vote for either Beefy or Reenk. Voting will close in precisely 24 hours. Best of luck to everyone once again. :bow:

[GeneralHankerchief]

Reenk, I hope I did The Wanax justice. :bow:

[Reenk Roink]

Read this in the summary thread already. :laugh4: I couldn't do any better myself GH! :2thumbsup:

Vote: Beefy

[Gaius Scribonius Curio]

23 more posts til 2000, keep spamming people :P :laugh4:

This post is the epitome of Irony.

[Beefy187]

This post is the epitome of Irony.

Oh noes the Number 23??

Vote: Reenk

I'll just hope that the towns makes the right decision. Assuming that taka and Andres aren't it.

[Gaius Scribonius Curio]

No I meant the 'keep spamming people to up the post count' bit.

Vote: Beefy

Sorry pal, but I don't think it is Reenk. I would have said Taka, but...

[Beefy187]

No I meant the 'keep spamming people to up the post count' bit.

Vote: Beefy

Sorry pal, but I don't think it is Reenk. I would have said Taka, but...

No worries. I would've done the same if I was in your position.

@ Quintus: Wrong thread :smash:

[Quintus.JC]

Vote: Beefy

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Vote:Beefy

As explained over the last few days.

[naut]

Vote: Beefy

If Reenk's the godfather he deserves to win. :bow:

[Askthepizzaguy]

I lied. :laugh2:

I would walk away, but someone needs to live up to their promises to defend Beefy, and so I shall.

:bow:

Vote: Reenk Roink

Apologies if I got too testy earlier.

I'm not here... I'm a ghost... (fades away)

Let's vote and see the spectacular finish! :smash:

[taka]

Vote: Reenk

Precisely if he's god father and he deserves to win, so i must deny him of winning :laugh4:

[Jolt]

NO! We have lost... Vote: Beefy

[Beefy187]

If I'm going to be hanged, can I have a huge Beef steak fest please? :beam:

[Lord Winter]

Vote: Beefy

I've been debating between him and Taka for the last two votes, now that the choice is taken away from me, I know what I have to do. Even if Reenk is the Godfather the sheer insanity of his play deserves something.

[TinCow]

Vote: Beefy187

[Askthepizzaguy]

Tally

Beefy: 8 (Reenk Roink, Gaius, Quintus.JC, Sasaki, Psychonaut, Jolt, Lord Winter, TinCow)
Reenk Roink: 3 (Beefy, Askthepizzaguy, Taka)

[taka]

Fos: Gaius, Quintus.JC, Sasaki, Psychonaut, Jolt, Lord Winter, TinCow

for bandwaggon

:laugh4:

[Reenk Roink]

So I guess I was the only one who believed Tevash was really detective.

This is for you Tevash! :charge: :bow:

[pevergreen]

Vote: Beefy187

Hey Japan...you just got GIRAFFED.

[TinCow]

So I guess I was the only one who believed Tevash was really detective.

This is for you Tevash! :charge: :bow:

I started to think he was the real detective over the last couple days, but I think my belief that he was lying at the time was the logical assumption to make, given his behavior. Under the same circumstances, I would press for his lynch again.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Wow.