The Settlement [Concluded]

[Reenk Roink]

:stupido:


As the sun retired to her resting place the man named Shlin went to his tent which did not contain much more than a severely overused combat dummy. Shlin was a soldier as his father and his father's father had been, and he did not spend long days on the field or in the office. Rather, he continued to practice his swordplay and keep his martial skills sharp for the day that battle would call again.

The sonorous sound of his sword striking the combat dummy was disturbed by the sudden entrance of a short red robed man, who grimly looked at Shlin. Shlin immediately turned his attention to the intruder and charged him. He was no more than two paces away when the sorcerer of Vode directed a burst of lightning at Shlin, hurling him back. Recovering from the shock, Shlin got up and exclaimed: "Foul magician, it will take more than that cantrip to fell this warrior!"

The robed sorcerer thus hurled another burst of lightning at Shlin, this one clearly causing damage to the hardy warrior. Yet although Shlin was unable to pick himself up after the second attack, he still defiantly exclaimed: "You are weak behind the evil magics given to you by your god. You cannot slay me with the sword!"

This statement of Shlin caused the grim faced sorcerer to raise an eyebrow. He then reached out with his hand and somehow took Shlin's sword out of his hand, causing it to float right above the wounded soldier. The red robed sorcerer then forcefully jerked his hand downwards and the sword mimicked the motion, running through Shlin.


Meanwhile, the man named Hankerchief sat in his house drinking wine and thinking of his glorious past. He reminisced about the days when he was a simple farmer boy who answered the call when the people called for a hero at their darkest hour during the Great Civil War. He rose up from his humble beginnings to reach the position of priest king from which he then began to conquer the largest empire our people have ever seen, effectively ending the Civil War and ushering an age of great peace and prosperity.

He then stepped down from his place as the most powerful man in the land to devote himself to knowledge. Later he would write about his heroic deeds. Even later these writings would be stripped from the history books as it was realized that Hankerchief simply had a vivid imagination and had made everything he documented up. Yet in his mind, Hankerchief was still a glorious general.

So the self styled general spent his night sitting on his fine chair, not realizing that a man had entered his house and drew a blade from behind him. So the life of the self styled general ended as his throat was slit and even more, the story of him would be lost forever as the killer proceeded to grind up the pages of the last remaining copy of Hankerchief's history into a fine powder and snort it.

As the sun rose from her slumber, all the settlers once again were called to the gathering hall by the priest king who informed them of the murders. So the discussions began, with Yoyoma once again joining in late in a limited capacity as his mind was clouded by drink.

Challenge List:


Alive:

taka
White_eyes:D
seireikhaan
Lord Winter
Captain Blackadder
Psychonaut
CountArach
FactionHeir
Andres
boudica
Jolt
TinCow
Ichigo
Yoyoma1910
Tristan de Castelrang
Sigurd
LittleGrizzly
Seamus Fermanagh

Executed:

777Ares777
Askthepizzaguy

Fallen in battle:


Killed:

TheFlax
pevergreen
Gaius Scribonius Curio
Sasaki Kojiro
Beefy187
shlin28
GeneralHankerchief


Day ends on Thursday, March 19 at 18:00 Eastern

[White_eyes:D]

Well....I knew shlin would die....he had a high duel score...or at least pretended too...:juggle2:
GH...I have no idea...:dizzy2: "the drug-scribe killer" that's the name of whoever is killing Good men now.....:smash:

[Askthepizzaguy]

There had better not be a purple names getting voted this round. Anyone who tries it gets my instant Bony Skeleton Finger of Suspicion.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Worth it. :laugh4:

-edit- By the way, vote for FactionHeir.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Seamus has been all to quiet for my taste...sigurd as well.

Also, I find the weird accent stuff impossible, so can anyone tell me if boudica has actually commented on the game?

[White_eyes:D]

Worth it. :laugh4:

???? did you catch your killer? like pevergreen? or just worth it, to die in the write-up like that?:laugh4:

[GeneralHankerchief]

Just to die like that.

And yeah, Seamus is worth a look.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Worth it. :laugh4:

-edit- By the way, vote for FactionHeir.

Either make a case or don't.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Hmm you know, I don't know where I got the idea that the knife killer was one of the usurpers. It doesn't mention vode in his kill descriptions and he seems to target just the good men.

[Jolt]

GH were you another Scribe? Man, someone has an obcession for destroying books.

Once again, Tristan, Ichigo and taka remain ever silent.

I'll use my Good Men voting muscle to Vote: Ichigo. I still don't see any major suspects and there are quite a few lurkers skipping rounds and rounds without saying a word.

[White_eyes:D]

GH were you another Scribe? Man, someone has an obcession for destroying books.

Once again, Tristan, Ichigo and taka remain ever silent.

I'll use my Good Men voting muscle to Vote: Ichigo. I still don't see any major suspects and there are quite a few lurkers skipping rounds and rounds without saying a word.

Is there Wrath Of Reenk?:clown:

[LittleGrizzly]

Im pretty sure he said theres no penalties for being inactive...

Well at least were down to 2 kills

GH and Gaius were scribes ?

Edit: i must be slacking im usually a bit higher up the posting list...

Edit 2: no clear suspects to my mind unless were going for the lynch the lurker strategy that always works so well...

[Askthepizzaguy]

Askthepizzaguy 163
777Ares777 63
White_eyes:D 54
Sasaki Kojiro 53
Yoyoma1910 48
TinCow 44
Reenk Roink 42
GeneralHankerchief 24
seireikhaan 23
CountArach 22
Jolt 22
shlin28 21
pevergreen 20
boudica 19
Beefy187 18
Andres 17
LittleGrizzly 15
Captain Blackadder 12
FactionHeir 12
Lord Winter 10
Seamus Fermanagh 10
taka 10
Psychonaut 9
TheFlax 8
Gaius Scribonius Curio 7
Tristan de Castelreng 6
Sigurd 6
Ichigo 3

Ok this isn't a "my number is bigger than yours contest" but if we are going to start lynching lurkers to get them talking, this is for reference.

Either townies should start talking, or be prepared to die.

Edit: Deads and host crossed off.

[White_eyes:D]

Sigurd 6
Well.....lurkers victory if there is no WOG....:no: I am going to Vote:Sigurd....my puny vote, well in no way get him lynched...but he might start talking.:book:

[Jolt]

Yoyoma was blocked and tonight there was one less kill. I'm in favor of seeing whether that actually means something or not (By not blocking Yoyoma next night and seeing how many kills we get)

[Gaius Scribonius Curio]

Im pretty sure he said theres no penalties for being inactive...

Well at least were down to 2 kills

GH and Gaius were scribes ?

Edit: i must be slacking im usually a bit higher up the posting list...

Edit 2: no clear suspects to my mind unless were going for the lynch the lurker strategy that always works so well...
Myself and The Flax were scribes. It would seem from the write-up that GH was as well. If so then I am totally confused as to how a foul adherent of the ideals of reading managed to find and destroy so many scribes so quickly.....

[White_eyes:D]

Myself and The Flax were scribes. It would seem from the write-up that GH was as well. If so then I am totally confused as to how a foul adherent of the ideals of reading managed to find and destroy so many scribes so quickly.....

Perhaps, he only targets Good Men??? (makes sense....you guys have more voting power) I recall thinking, when I started this game I thought "If I was the Mafia/SK, I would take out most of the Good men" since then....town's voting power would be halved.:thumbsdown:

[seireikhaan]

Too many lurking their way through this game
Now, I shall Vote: Sigurd, who has played lame
From him, we need more talk
We can't allow a balk
Tell us why we should not assign you blame

[LittleGrizzly]

Perhaps, he only targets Good Men??? (makes sense....you guys have more voting power) I recall thinking, when I started this game I thought "If I was the Mafia/SK, I would take out most of the Good men" since then....town's voting power would be halved.:thumbsdown:

Yeah i thought of that as well... most kills have been good men... seems town only lynches men though.. it will be intresting to see which good men remain...

Edit the fact they were all scribes is a bit coincidental... unless most of the good men were/are scribes....

[Askthepizzaguy]

Rules:


You must not:
-Post screenshots of anything game related (private messages, quicktopics, the game thread itself, chatlogs)
-Quote or forge any game related private messages once dead

You are allowed to do anything else (quote and forge private messages or quicktopics or chatlogs while alive, reveal your role while dead (as long as you don’t quote and or lightly paraphrase private messages), private message other players dead or alive, etc…)As is stands, I can receive quoted information, I just can no longer send it. I'd have to completely paraphrase (put into my own words) all further info. I'll repeat my call for people to claim a role, no role, or a duel rating, or continue to remain silent if they wish. As of this time, I can receive quoted information. I just can't repost it to anyone.

[Jolt]

Well, the night Yoyoma was blocked, the god Pisuf did not kill anyone, while the sorcerer and the Scribe-killer killed again. That may mean that Yoyoma is Pisuf.

So far the Scribe-killer has only killed Good Men. There is no indication that he is a follower of Vode whatsoever, which probably means more than one Mafia. Quite possibly the Scribe killer might be a SK, whose objective is to kill every scribe, or every Good Men (Maybe he was lucky to get 3 scribes in a row?). The sorcerer, which is a follower of Vode, has killed everyone with little effort (Even shlin which was apparently a soldier), which might mean he has 100% success (Or not?), he has killed beefy first, which is a good men, and was targetted by ATPG. It might be ATPG's colleague (Which is still unknown who he is and therefore no way to confirm whether he is innocent or guilty, given the fact that ATPG himself suspected of his colleague). Ever since the Tax Collector died, he has reverted to killing a normal man. (This one is the first.)

I'd say that there are two different Mafias, due to different MOs, and different patterns (The Scribe Killer kills scribes, the sorcerer hasn't made a pattern yet.)

[FactionHeir]

I think what's more concerning is that the killer actually knows who is a scribe and who isn't.

Also, its odd that Pisuf hasn't been active this night, or maybe he can only act against certain characters? Or maybe only every even night?

[White_eyes:D]

Scribe Killer kills scribes but here's the thing....HOW does he know, who is a scribe? I would think he is just limiting the number of Good men....so this way there is no chance a person with 2 votes can get lucky and lynch him..:juggle2: (means it's not a "Good Man" who is killing good men....but the other guy...the wizard is likely one, since I imagine he would love his books....:book:)

[Askthepizzaguy]

I've no reason to suspect my partner at this point besides the paranoia of all the scribes going down. The trouble is, we did not get all the information about all the scribes, if I recall correctly. There were at least a couple scribes I think that did not reveal to us. Gaius and GH didn't reveal squat.

That tells me that the mafia have the ability to target just the scribes, have massive investigation powers, or are just plain really, really lucky. My question is; why are the scribes priority targets? Perhaps it is just because they are Good Men, and the Men want them dead.

If the mafia keep this up, we won't need to lynch off the Good Men, so I suggest we focus on the Men. But that's my opinion, and I encourage you to use the information you have that I am not privy to, to make up your own minds.

[GeneralHankerchief]

I was a Bureaucrat.

By the way, I changed my mind. Everyone needs to vote for Andres. Do this immediately.

[White_eyes:D]

I was a Bureaucrat.

By the way, I changed my mind. Everyone needs to vote for Andres. Do this immediately.

OK....Reason? or better yet evidence?:inquisitive:

[GeneralHankerchief]

Because I said so, that's why.

[Askthepizzaguy]

That doesn't sound like legitimate suspicion. I'd recommend the town completely ignores you.

A reasonless tip is one thing, but you didn't even stick to it. Unless you can explain yourself, there is no reason to follow your lead.

[GeneralHankerchief]

My explanation is that a lynch of a 100% guilty person is much better in the town's interests than a lynch of a possibly guilty person. Andres is your man, gentlemen. If you are wise, you will follow me and heed my teachings.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I'm in favor of an Andres lynch...

[TinCow]

We clearly have four separate killers so far. The scribe-killer who uses a knife, the red robed sorcerer, the mace killer, and Pisuf. The mace killer has not reappeared since Ares was lynched, so it's reasonable to assume that we have disposed of him. The sorcerer is mafia, as he was specifically named on N2 as a sorceror of Vode. The scribe-killer is not described in that same manner, so his allegiance is not as clear, but the fact that he's killed three nights in a row makes it extremely unlikely that he's pro-town. Pisuf is likely pro-town or independent with his own goals, but it's hard to determine from the single write-up we have of him.

There is a significant difference between the scribe-killer and the sorcerer, namely that the scribe-killer has a specific MO. It is extremely troubling that he has killed off three writers/scribes on successive nights. This is not a coincidence, these people have been specifically targeted because of their roles. In addition, the scribe-killer must have had the identity of at least TheFlax from the very beginning of the game. He killed right on the first night, so there was no time to investigate. The only way he could have hit a scribe immediately was to already know that TheFlax was a scribe. The successive kills on Gaius Scribonius Curio and GH make it likely that he knew their identities prior to killing them as well. It seems likely that if there are any more scribes out there, the scribe-killer knows who they are and will kill them soon. Thus, I urge any scribes to reveal themselves and help us figure out what is going on. You're almost certainly going to die anyway, so it's worth trying to figure out why you are being targeted. In addition, if there are any doctors in this game, you might get protection by revealing.

Since he is one of the now-dead scribes, GH's statements are particularly curious. First he says lynch FH, then he says lynch Andres. Both are stated in a manner that indicates he knows something. Mind explaining why we should lynch these two, GH?

[edit] Sorry, was writing while GH posted. 100% guilty is a pretty strong statement. Either something about your death pointed you towards him or you had this information previously and didn't disclose it. Which is it?

[GeneralHankerchief]

Well, Andres is most certainly guilty. FH is probably guilty as well, but that's besides the point.

As far as why you should lynch them, the best explanation I can give is that it is the town's objective to lynch the guilty people. Therefore, unless you wish to purposely flout your given objectives, you should lynch Andres. :bow:

[Askthepizzaguy]

If you're a scribe and need to reveal, while hiding your identity, reveal to me. I would be willing to give both GH and Sasaki the benefit of the doubt; the problem is, neither of them have approached me and even hinted why.

I don't have a better suspect than Andres, so I can't exactly defend him. I am just curious why, and "I said so" isn't much of a case. Whatever... I'm just along for the ride.

I say you need to justify this somehow, unless it's specifically barred by the rules.

[taka]

i say we lynch from the bottom up :laugh4:

on a more serious note

Vote: andres

i know i dont talk/post much, but it seems andres is a bit too quiet for my liking, not seen him post much at all

a bit of pressure voting i guess u can call it

[seireikhaan]

I shall take His word
As such, I unvote: Sigurd
And I Vote: Andres

[TheFlax]

ATPG will be unhappy with me saying this, but he's the only person to whom I revealed I was a scribe before I died. I don't know who he told after that though.

Its also possible that the three men of words killings were a coincidence as I seems a high percentage of Good Men hold roles of the sort. It has been said that the knife killer perhaps only targets Good Men for some reason and that could explain it.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Okay, I believe you guys. Here's Andres' activity.

Andres

post 115- Joke post.
120- Joke post, anti-Good Men.
129- Anti-Good Men.
137- Joke post, anti-Good Men.
158- Smile only.
169- joke only.
188- joke post: "No more taxes"'
248- Asks me why I lynch myself.
283- joke post


Editor's note: A whole lot of unhelpful behavior?

Nothing page 5

Post 445: edits a post, but does not contribute.

post 492: "Busy week-end. Read the write-up of last night and I know enough.

Vote : 777Ares777

The next 8 pages will have to wait until tomorrow "

nothing page 8


Editor's note. He's watching the thread and not contributing. A whole lot of nothing.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2176333&postcount=616

Post 722

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2177698&postcount=722


Editor's note: This isn't the Andres I know. Check out both posts.

Bottom line: I think Andres does have a role. He was here, and he was not helping us, not one bit. And it seems as though there are holes in his story that he was just "too busy".

I don't buy it. From this evidence alone, he needs to explain himself. I'd toss my name into the hat of people who think Andres is guilty.

[Captain Blackadder]

Vote Andres using my two votes a person from beyond the grave saying that they are 100% sure is good enough for me.

[Askthepizzaguy]

ATPG will be unhappy with me saying this, but he's the only person to whom I revealed I was a scribe before I died. I don't know who he told after that though.

I told Sasaki, and my partner. And everyone who revealed to me can tell people they did so. It does not bother me one bit. I think we are heading towards the part of the game where my partner needs to reveal anyway. Let's see if he does.

[Yoyoma1910]

Hmm...


I suppose it could be like the pever/Ares thing. I don't know... Sounds pretty good though. Likely the "scribe killer" is targeting Good Men, and has gotten two scribes and one diplomat.

Perhaps they ingest the person's work, because they believe it will make them become a good man themselves?

*hick-up*

Anyway, Vote:Andres


...


:zzz:

[Askthepizzaguy]

In other news, I have someone claiming to be the investigator, and either that person is the investigator for real, or I have found not one, but two mafia.




:bow:

[Askthepizzaguy]

Ok I should probably follow up on that with... say... a plan. :deal:

Some come to mind. But suffice it to say, if someone falsely revealed as an investigator, I don't need to come up with a plan. The real investigator will probably come up with one on their own. I have one to suggest, but I prefer to wait and see if anyone bites.

[Gaius Scribonius Curio]

Just to clarify...

I'm not saying that the 'scribe-killer' is definitely out to kill scribes as such. My opinion that given the antagonism between the two schools of thought regarding literacy (of which I belong to the legitimate one), then it is a possibility. It could indeed be luck that the killer is using, attacking the 'Good Men' in full knowledge that the uneducated peasantry would not be scribes. Or it could be as others have suggested that the killer is targeting the 'Good men' for his own other dark purposes.

As a quick note it would make strictly logical sense for any mafioso to target the 'Good Men'. But I won't go into that right now, its easy enough to see why...

[Seamus Fermanagh]

but here's the thing....HOW does he know, who is a scribe? I would think he is just limiting the number of Good men....so this way there is no chance a person with 2 votes can get lucky and lynch him..:juggle2: (means it's not a "Good Man" who is killing good men....but the other guy...the wizard is likely one, since I imagine he would love his books....:book:)

Some good points here. So far, the "scribe killer" has accounted for a scribe, an author, and a bureacrat -- all Boni. The last was wonderfully funny, but the "writing" was inconsequential to GH's role -- the kill seemed more for parallelism and enjoying the label we've hung on the killer.

Also, White_eyes point about eliminating the double voters makes sense -- a simple yet powerful reduction of the most deadly lynch opponents. This needs to be factored into our thinking.


btw, apropos of nothing whatever, Reenk really liked the rome-theme mafia game a while ago. "The Boni" or Good Men were a political grouping in Rome that opposed G.J. Caesar -- and eventually knifed him to death. I just get the sense that someone is being playful here....


I see no real case against Andres. Moreover, isn't he off getting drunk at his annual festival? Not that he hasn't used RL as a cover for mafia before -- I know he has -- but is he even in a position to reply to all this pressure?


Blackadder: Why no vote until now? You have not been absent -- you've posted -- yet until now we see you taking no stands at all. :inquisitive:

Tristan: Lurk much? You abstained in round one and have voted not at all since. Get involved me lad...

Sigurd too is underinvolved. And more so than I!

Vote: Tristan

[Captain Blackadder]

I voted in round one as for round two quite simply I forgot to I meant to vote but just didn't get around to it and as you can see now I am back to voting again.

[TheFlax]

Some good points here. So far, the "scribe killer" has accounted for a scribe, an author, and a bureacrat -- all Boni.

Small correction. Two scribes (fighting a valiant battle against reading, may I say so myself) and one bureaucrat, which is the latest murder.

[Jolt]

GH, you're dead so I don't get it how you can't say howcome you manage to get suspects over your head. Do you have an investigator partner?

[Jolt]

Anyways, the tally is (I think):

Andres 7 (taka, Capt. Blackadder, Yoyoma, sereikhaan)
Ichigo 2 (Jolt)
Tristan 1 (Seamus)

[LittleGrizzly]

Im willing to take the word of a dead innocent for it... it gives me more confidence than going for the lynch the lurker strategy...

Vote Andres

[naut]

Vote: Abstain

I'm in a hurry. :bow:

[Andres]

It seems like the time to reveal has come for me:

This is my role pm:




Hello Andres, thanks for playing :bow:


Andres flees... to return at night!

:stupido: Terms and conditions

You are an assassin

You just were a thief, a long time ago. A good one, but just a thief. Then this weird but scary man recruited you.

He told you that the good men were evil. Not all good men were evil, but most were. He wanted you to kill.

You pretended to agree while adeptly pickpocketing the scary one wearing the silk robes and you nearly got away with it.

Somehow, the robed man caught you. But he wasn't angry, no, he smiled at you. He said you had proven your worth to be part of his plans. You would be sent out to one of the new settlements to make an end at the oppression of the good men.

He then produced for you a sharp knife and ordered you to accomplish your mission.

It was time to end the discrimination!

Battle Rating:

4 - You are a weak small fan who nevertheless is very dangerous in a fight due your speed and stealth abilities. Larger, stronger, and better trained men would do well to watch out for your

Abilities:

Kill: Every night period, you may attempt to kill one of the good men. This involves entering his tent or house and stabbing him to death. You are much better at escaping with your own life if you fail to take your target than most.

Victory Conditions:

Exterminate the good men
Outlast the usurpers (settler victory)

Yes, I'm a killer. But I'm not necessarily anti town. It's obviously no longer possible for me to fullfil both victory conditions, since apparently I got a guilty result on me.

I'd like to propose a deal in return for my survivial: I refrain from killing from further killing from now on. You can easily check this, since I'm the killer with the knife. If the knife killer appears once again, you can lynch me. I can also serve as your executioner in case one of the good men is deemed suspicious. If one of the remaining good men turns out to be scum, then I shall kill him at night, so we don't have to waste a lynch on scummy good men.

:bow:

Vote : abstain

[_Tristan_]

I wish to send to our host my excuses for not being able to participate fully in this game.:embarassed:

Alas, I was taken to hospital in emergency on Sat-Sun night and just got back home (and to the PC)...

I hope my being off the radar for so long did not spoil the fun of any others or the game in any way...

:stupid:


P.S. : Don't worry it was nothing too serious...


EDIT : not dead yet...:2thumbsup: But a lot to catch up to... :jawdrop:

[TinCow]

Vote: Andres

We have 5 more Good Men left alive. While I hate Jerk Oppression as much as the next pleb, allowing their extermination is surely not in the best interests of the town.

[Andres]

Vote: Andres

We have 5 more Good Men left alive. While I hate Jerk Oppression as much as the next pleb, allowing their extermination is surely not in the best interests of the town.

I won't kill anymore, only if town whishes me to do so. And if I do, I'll be easily exposed. Also note that my other victory condition is getting rid of the usurpers.

So basically I offer to be the towns' vigilante. If I don't stick to my end of the deal, I'll be spotted easily as the knife killer and you can lynch me.

[TinCow]

I won't kill anymore, only if town whishes me to do so. And if I do, I'll be easily exposed. Also note that my other victory condition is getting rid of the usurpers.

So basically I offer to be the towns' vigilante. If I don't stick to my end of the deal, I'll be spotted easily as the knife killer and you can lynch me.

You've killed 3 people already and in order to win you have to kill 5 more. I'm sure you'll excuse my poor manners if I say that I don't trust you to act in the town's best interests for the rest of the game. Plus, if we don't lynch you here, we have to go with another fuzzy lynch with far less evidence. Better to stretch an admitted scum here and now rather than risk an innocent death.

[Andres]

You've killed 3 people already and in order to win you have to kill 5 more. I'm sure you'll excuse my poor manners if I say that I don't trust you to act in the town's best interests for the rest of the game. Plus, if we don't lynch you here, we have to go with another fuzzy lynch with far less evidence. Better to stretch an admitted scum here and now rather than risk an innocent death.

I'm a solo character and as such not the biggest threat for town.

Also, I am already exposed and will have no way to keep killing and remain unnoticed by town.

There's no risk in keeping me alive. In a worst case scenario, I can take out one more good man that is not deemed suspicious by town and then it's game over for me.

However, if I cooperate, then my abilities can be of use for town, as in I can vig kill a suspicious good man.

Note that in a scenario where there are only a couple townies left, including a suspicious good men, my ability to kill a mafia-good man may be your only chance for a townie win.

[Andres]

Regardless what you guys decide to do with me, I would also be very careful with your townie network and "trusted" detectives.

Note that my goal was to get rid of the good men. I wouldn't be too surprised if there would be a similar role out there to get rid of the men.

This is a role heavy game and as such it would be unwise to think this is just townie vs. mafia. It would also be a bad idea to assume that all investigators are necessarily pro-town.

I wouldn't be too surprised if the network of so-called "confirmed innocents" has already been infiltrated by the usurpers.

[pevergreen]

I wouldn't be too surprised if the network of so-called "confirmed innocents" has already been infiltrated by the usurpers.

The Netherworld complex.

A townie network, comprised of all the pro town roles, with the Serial Killer who can make his own mafia family, with the renegade mafia turncoat who can also create a new mafia family.

No one is safe.

[LittleGrizzly]

Townie Information Networks are a bad idea... especially when they go big scale... almost always end up infiltrated in the end...

Im intrested in your offer Andres... but TC raises a good point, what if we get to the last turn with one good man left, you could go against the town and kill him without retribution...

Also your a proven killer... who was going to keep killing until he got caught... why should you now get away with it because you don't want to die ?

Besides seen as you can only kill good men how much use could you be... we have limited numbers of good men left anyway...

[TinCow]

The Netherworld complex.

A townie network, comprised of all the pro town roles, with the Serial Killer who can make his own mafia family, with the renegade mafia turncoat who can also create a new mafia family.

No one is safe.

I think there's a second Netherworld complex as well. Something about not trusting a solo killer who has already killed 3 times and who claims he now wants to help the town with vigilante kills.

For the sake of conversation though, I'm curious to know who Andres think we should lynch in his stead and why.

[Andres]

Townie Information Networks are a bad idea... especially when they go big scale... almost always end up infiltrated in the end...

Im intrested in your offer Andres... but TC raises a good point, what if we get to the last turn with one good man left, you could go against the town and kill him without retribution...

Ehm, that would still be a town victory, wouldn't it?

My objectives are : exterminate good men + outlive usurpers.

Town objective is outlive usurpers.

Both me and town would win. And if it's me and good man in a day phase, then I'll get lynched, since the good man has 2 votes.



Also your a proven killer... who was going to keep killing until he got caught... why should you now get away with it because you don't want to die ?

I was not going to keep killing until I got caught, I would have stopped once all good men were gone and then I would still have to work with town, since I also have to outlive the usurpers.


Besides seen as you can only kill good men how much use could you be... we have limited numbers of good men left anyway...

If one of or more the remaining mafiosi in the late mid/end game is a good man, then my role can be critical for town victory.

[Andres]

I think there's a second Netherworld complex as well. Something about not trusting a solo killer who has already killed 3 times and who claims he now wants to help the town with vigilante kills.

For the sake of conversation though, I'm curious to know who Andres think we should lynch in his stead and why.

Any of the good men would do ~;p

[TinCow]

I was not going to keep killing until I got caught, I would have stopped once all good men were gone and then I would still have to work with town, since I also have to outlive the usurpers.

Good to know you would restricted yourself to only killing 5 more people. Clearly anyone who was going to kill less than HALF of the town should be given the benefit of the doubt.


If one of or more the remaining mafiosi in the late mid/end game is a good man, then my role can be critical for town victory.

If we know a particular good man is a mafioso, why don't we just lynch him? What do we need you for?

[Andres]

Good to know you would restricted yourself to only killing 5 more people. Clearly anyone who was going to kill less than HALF of the town should be given the benefit of the doubt.

You are ignoring the fact that I am exposed now and that I can no longer kill if I want to stay alive. Which I do. We have a common goal: get rid of the usurpers. Town has me in its' power and can order me to do a vig kill.


If we know a particular good man is a mafioso, why don't we just lynch him? What do we need you for?

My ability to kill at night can be crucial in the end game, if let's say the two top suspects are both good men and could dominate the voting procedure with their votes.

Town already has me in its' power and my ability can be of use for you.

[FactionHeir]

I think we can let Andres live for now, he kills again without our say, he gets lynched anyway.

[Yoyoma1910]

If there were an assassin whose job were to Eliminate all the Men, I would vote him.


And who is to say that Andres didn't simply alter or forge his Role PM to make it seem more settler friendly?

[pevergreen]

I think there's a second Netherworld complex as well. Something about not trusting a solo killer who has already killed 3 times and who claims he now wants to help the town with vigilante kills.

Lynch Andres.

I'm still in disbelief over that game. Not joking...some nights my mind turns to mafia and I just go....what. just. happened.

[Andres]

The thing is, I can no longer kill without the approval of the town, since that'll get me lynched :wall:

EDIT: as for suspects, I'm most suspicious about FactionHeir at the moment, so that's where my vote will go:

Vote : FactionHeir

[Yoyoma1910]

Sure... sure.


A bit late for that, eh young man? Should have maybe though of your new found social concience before you started spilling blood everywhere.


Edit:

And look, even you are suspicious of one of the few people who support you!


What kind of a sick man are you?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Unvote: Tristan

Though, as this is mafia, I'd like to see a copy of the admittance form.... (kidding!).

Vote: Andres

Note, if a deal is brokered and I'm online to read it, I'll change to conform to the town's deal with Andres.

It really hinges on what you believe of his reveal. There is too much that rings true in there for this to be utterly fabricated...but that does not mean that the reveal is completely unaltered.

Serial Killer roles are traditionally a "last and only" winner. Reenk may not have kept such a tradition -- Reenkster's creative -- but then again.....A serial killer who has altered his PM to read "get the good men only" has a convenient fallback position if discovered.

Trust in such an ally would be difficult. Remember the one about the scorpion, the dog, and the river to be crossed?

[Andres]

Sure... sure.


A bit late for that, eh young man? Should have maybe though of your new found social concience before you started spilling blood everywhere.

Ha! Stop filling the minds of these poor oppressed peasants with your filthy lies. I am an educated man!

As much as I dislike it, I'm willing to ally myself with you to get rid of the usurpers.

Besides, if the game doesn't end with all usurpers gone, the good men can still lynch me with their unfair advantage in voting power.

[boudica]

Seamus has been all to quiet for my taste...sigurd as well.

Also, I find the weird accent stuff impossible, so can anyone tell me if boudica has actually commented on the game?

(ooc: Not that I have much - if anything - to add to the wealth of investigation so far, I shall forego my 'Somerset' accent, given Sasaki's comment and attempt to contribute in a more coherent fashion than simple fire-side narration)

Given Hankerchief, the self-styled General's vehemence regarding Faction Heir and Andres - I would conclude that he is - was - a detective and cannot reveal this because he has been killed, I don't know if ATPG - who claims he knows who the detective is - can confirm this given that he is dead also.

The lack of certainty about the initial claim to Faction Heirs' guilt (???), and now given his confession; Andres therefore seems the best lynch target unless people agree with him that his skills may prove of some use to us.

I am also interested why Pisuf has not struck again. His existence would suggest that there are indeed many individual victory conditions tacked on to outlasting the Usurpers - It makes sense that these would conflict with one another.

How Pisuf would know that Sasaki was a worshipper of another God is maybe not so mysterious. I would guess that Pisuf investigates/kills on alternate nights and got lucky investigating Sasaki on night one.

There are several players who have me sniffing a bit, but that is mainly down to their general lack of contribution/lurkiness. I want to hear Faction Heir comment on General Hankerchief's claim about him - other than that I am fairly non-plussed - There has been some incisive detective work by many that I'm not sure how I can add to atm, but unless a better choice is revealed, or people think he can be made good use of, I shall vote for Andres, as I don't think an admitted assassin would be welcome at the Dog & :daisy: whether he claims to be for the common man or not.

(also - If someone can clarify why Yoyoma keeps getting drunk and missing things, I'd appreciate it - not sure if I missed something myself in an earlier post.)

[Andres]

Serial Killer roles are traditionally a "last and only" winner. Reenk may not have kept such a tradition -- Reenkster's creative -- but then again.....A serial killer who has altered his PM to read "get the good men only" has a convenient fallback position if discovered.

Trust in such an ally would be difficult. Remember the one about the scorpion, the dog, and the river to be crossed?

Fair enough.

However, you can always lynch me if the game goes on after the last usurper died :shrug:

Besides, I'm an incapacitated killer, since killing will get me insta lynched from now on. However, my ability may well be the towns last chance when in the end game with one or two usurpers-good men still alive.

It's up to you to keep all options open or not.

[TinCow]

(also - If someone can clarify why Yoyoma keeps getting drunk and missing things, I'd appreciate it - not sure if I missed something myself in an earlier post.)

The way it is written makes me think it is the work of a role blocker. It happened to Yoyoma on N1 and N3 and CountArach on N2.

[_Tristan_]

Just went over the write-ups and something jumped at me that I thought I'll bring to you :

What's with those mentions of CountArach and Yoyoma joining late and drunk at meetings ? Is there any clue to be had in these mentions or are they purely "background" material ?

As to Andres, I'll vote against lynching him. I think he might prove useful seeing how the town has seemingly already been deprived of several valuable roles (GH and Shlin).

There's something I can't fathom about Tincow (perhaps his insistence that we lynch Andres, though he's been exposed and his next kill would spell his certain doom) that leaves me wanting to put a noose around his head.

Vote : Tincow

EDIT : Late...

[Jolt]

How dare the burglar murder the fine men of our society?

Unvote: Ichigo
Vote: Andres

Off with his head! Though your offer seems interesting Andres (As the townies would gain a killer), the fact that I am myself a Good Men in risk of being murdered by yourself forces me to not care what the plebs think. You will be lynched whether the plebs wish for your help or not. Furthermore, what's to stop the Mafia from killing you if you survived? It would actually be a good way to waste a Mafia kill, but I don't think (At least myself) is worth the risk.

EDIT: Actually, since we have still a handful of Good Man, phreaps it wouldn't be a bad idea to accept his offer. If any of us good men die by his hand then he is dead. If Good Men dwindle through lynching and killing to one, we insta-lynch Andres.

[Yoyoma1910]

I guess I might as well fess up:



My character is an old drunk.

[Andres]

How dare the burglar murder the fine men of our society?

Unvote: Ichigo
Vote: Andres

Off with his head! Though your offer seems interesting Andres (As the townies would gain a killer), the fact that I am myself a Good Men in risk of being murdered by yourself forces me to not care what the plebs think. You will be lynched whether the plebs wish for your help or not. Furthermore, what's to stop the Mafia from killing you if you survived? It would actually be a good way to waste a Mafia kill, but I don't think (At least myself) is worth the risk.

Come on now. It should be clear to you all that I'm no longer able to kill at night, since I would get lynched if I'd do so. And my ability could be very useful, as I've said numerous times before.

Yes, I'm the most unlikely ally, but an ally nonetheless. And as long as there are good men alive, I can still be lynched at your leisure.

As it stands now, it's not reasonable to waste the abilities of a killer who is a puppet in the hands of the town.

[boudica]

I guess I might as well fess up:



My character is an old drunk.

hmmm - but if what TinCow suspects - that you were blocked - is true and that Count Arach was blocked on night 2, then there would be no need for you to 'fess up' no?:inquisitive:

[Jolt]

What does fess up mean? Reveal?

[Andres]

What does fess up mean? Reveal?

I think he meant "confess".

It didn't strike me as a reveal though, more as something meant in jest.

[Yoyoma1910]

I was being facetious.

[Jolt]

I think he meant "confess".

It didn't strike me as a reveal though, more as something meant in jest.

Confess, reveal... Ends up being the same. >_>

[Yoyoma1910]

Someone keeps sending me bottles of delicious wine tied with a pretty ribbon.

How could an old man such as myself resist such a gift?

[Andres]

Someone keeps sending me bottles of delicious wine tied with a pretty ribbon.

How could an old man such as myself resist such a gift?

Any reason why that someone would want to keep blocking you?

EDIT: Unvote ; Vote : Yoyoma1910

[boudica]

No one would have a concrete reason to block Yoyoma on night 1.

Roight, let's lynch this assassin. Seems he's ready to jump on any chance of savin' his sorry skin

vote: Andres

[Yoyoma1910]

No, there is no reason anyone should be blocking me, murderer.

[Andres]

Seems he's ready to jump on any chance of savin' his sorry skin



I won't deny that :shrug:

Still, instead of the "Oooh! A killer, lynch him!" reasoning, you should really think this over.

What harm can I do? I can no longer kill at night, unless town orders me to.

If you lynch me, I will also no longer be able to kill, but without the possibility of performing vig kills ordered by the town.

I think you all understand that my ability could be crucial for the town's victory in case of an end game with one or two good men-mafiosi still standing.

-> Lynch me : killer can no longer kill who he wants.
-> Do not lynch me : 1) killer can longer kill who he wants; 2) town gains a vigilante that is under its' complete control.

And yes, there would be no reason to block Yoyoma N1, but with two killings on the nights Yoyoma1910 got blocked and three killings on the one night Yoyoma1910 did not get blocked, Yoyoma starts to look very suspicious, no?

[CountArach]

I've skimmed the thread and given that I'm a bit more sober than earlier in the evening:

Vote: Andres

[_Tristan_]

My heart balances between Tincow and Yoyoma...

Unvote : Tincow
Vote : Yoyoma

[Andres]

I think there are two possibilities:

1) Yoyoma1910 is mafia and got blocked N1 and 3 and killed N2
2) Townie network is infiltrated (oh, what a surprise :rolleyes:) and the information provided there has been used to frame Yoyoma1910

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Yes...Andres is still the best lynch. The endgame scenario + possibly doctored role pm. Sorry.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Andres should go.

He's an admitted serial killer, and he's targeting the Good Men, when we could easily investigate them instead, and use the Good Men's votes for..... Good.

I'm a freakin' oppressed poor man and I still say that this whole social class rivalry is just designed to throw us off. You have likely mafia in the Men and the Good Men, but there's fewer of them left and we can check them out one by one.

I haven't revealed the bulk of my knowledge to anyone. If there is a leak in the pro-town network, it's Sasaki or my partner, and I haven't told Sasaki half of the information I do know.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Why is there a pro-town network to begin with??!?!?!

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Why is there a pro-town network to begin with??!?!?!

Despite the warnings, people keep sending information :shrug:

[White_eyes:D]

Why is there a pro-town network to begin with??!?!?!

GH.....is your info, reliable?:inquisitive: or did you give it to the doomed network?:wall:

[GeneralHankerchief]

Of course not, I kept my Treasure Chest O'Awesome to myself.

-edit- And why did I do this?

Because I remember the pro-town group in Stig's Beer Salesmen game being infiltrated.
Because I remember the pro-town group in Capo II being infiltrated.
Because I remember the pro-town group in Netherworld being infiltrated.
Because I remember the pro-town group in Midgard II being infiltrated.

There are probably a few I forgot, but you see the general trend, I'm sure. :2thumbsup:

-edit2- Screw it, let's go in full vent mode.

Reenk said in the thread that he specifically used the Midgard games as an inspiration. He even resurrected the Midgard II thread when he came back on the .Org specifically to comment on it. Sigurd gave the Jotun in Midgard II cover PMs. This game might as well be called Midgard 2.5 for all I'm concerned. Anybody who doesn't believe for a second that Reenk didn't do the same, especially in a game of this complexity, is using incredibly naive reasoning. Which means that somewhere down the line, Pizza & co. are going to vouch for a guilty person because he sent along his cover role, or Pizza & co. itself is going to be compromised because they let somebody in that had a good cover role.

Argh, history repeating itself is never fun to watch. The idea of a pro-town network in any game needs to die an extremely horrible death. :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall:

[White_eyes:D]

Then I guess FactionHeir is up for lynching next....:shrug:

[Andres]

So, you guys are going to lynch an already exposed and thus incapacitated killer who will no longer be able to kill for the remainder of the game, unless when ordered to do so by the town instead of Yoyoma who was blocked on the nights that there were 2 kills and not on the night there were 3 kills?

:inquisitive:

EDIT: I came up with my real role pm because my intentions are honest. Well I didn't really reveal out of honesty, but was forced to, but my intentions are sincere :shrug: I share a common goal with the town and can be of use in a worst case scenario to kill off a possible mafia good man.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

So, you guys are going to lynch an already exposed and thus incapacitated killer who will no longer be able to kill for the remainder of the game, unless when ordered to do so by the town instead of Yoyoma who was blocked on the nights that there were 2 kills and not on the night there were 3 kills?

:inquisitive:

You sound exactly like your mafia self andres...


EDIT: I came up with my real role pm because my intentions are honest. Well I didn't really reveal out of honesty, but was forced to, but my intentions are sincere :shrug: I share a common goal with the town and can be of use in a worst case scenario to kill off a possible mafia good man.

Were you provided with a cover role pm? Let's see it...

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Of course not, I kept my Treasure Chest O'Awesome to myself.

-edit- And why did I do this?

Because I remember the pro-town group in Stig's Beer Salesmen game being infiltrated.
Because I remember the pro-town group in Capo II being infiltrated.
Because I remember the pro-town group in Netherworld being infiltrated.
Because I remember the pro-town group in Midgard II being infiltrated.

There are probably a few I forgot, but you see the general trend, I'm sure. :2thumbsup:

-edit2- Screw it, let's go in full vent mode.

Reenk said in the thread that he specifically used the Midgard games as an inspiration. He even resurrected the Midgard II thread when he came back on the .Org specifically to comment on it. Sigurd gave the Jotun in Midgard II cover PMs. This game might as well be called Midgard 2.5 for all I'm concerned. Anybody who doesn't believe for a second that Reenk didn't do the same, especially in a game of this complexity, is using incredibly naive reasoning. Which means that somewhere down the line, Pizza & co. are going to vouch for a guilty person because he sent along his cover role, or Pizza & co. itself is going to be compromised because they let somebody in that had a good cover role.

Argh, history repeating itself is never fun to watch. The idea of a pro-town network in any game needs to die an extremely horrible death. :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall:

They can still be used. Probably best as a "canary" trap sort of thing, though. Pro-town networking CAN be infiltrated and there are numerous examples pointing this out (as you noted).

Andres, it would appear that your deal is not yet accepted. Yoyo and FH will obviously be facing some discussion, but the lethality of your role makes it hard for us not to take the easy choice with you -- even if you are completely honest and open with your reveal.

[White_eyes:D]

Don't worry......blocker could just get Yoyoma blocked again tonight, to be sure..:book:

[Askthepizzaguy]

Yeah, you guys are right. Pro-town networks are dumb.

That's why Masons shouldn't exist. If we have Masons, that's bad for town. There is no sense in having confirmed townies share information between one another.

:wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall:

I've told Sasaki basic information, and kept the majority of the roles between myself and my partner who should be exposed this round or next.

Seriously, what the heck else are Masons supposed to do? Sit around and wait to die?

[Andres]

Here's my cover pm:


Hello Andres, thanks for playing :bow:


Much of the information contained in this message is not necessarily true and not available in all locations and valid for a limited time only.

:stupido: You

You are a Merchant

Background:

You have made your living by selling your products to other people who either do not need them or would be better off buying other products.

However, life for a merchant is tough in the big city with all the competition, which leads to drama, then politics, then violence. Because of this you got together with a few of your merchant acquaintances to decide what to do next.

Common sense eventually dictated that you all go find new settlements to live in. This way there would be less competition leading to more demand leading to more profit. You all agreed to follow this plan; all but one.

One among you decided instead to write a book about this plan and submit it to the local priest king. The priest king was so impressed by this plan’s applicability that he elevated the author to the chief administrative office and declared that he had invented a new science called Economics.

Somewhat jealous at your acquaintance’s newfound success, you nevertheless are optimistic at testing the unsaturated markets of the new settlements.

Battle Rating:

4 – At first sight, it appears that you have not done much in the way of physical exertion and are as soft as the silk sheet you sell. However, you picked up a thing or two from the mercenaries escorting trade caravans and under the fat and the fancy clothes hides a man capable of defending himself.

Victory Conditions:

Outlast the usurpers (settler victory)

[White_eyes:D]

4 – At first sight, it appears that you have not done much in the way of physical exertion and are as soft as the silk sheet you sell. However, you picked up a thing or two from the mercenaries escorting trade caravans and under the fat and the fancy clothes hides a man capable of defending himself.
??? I don't buy it.....even Ares didn't have his greetings in it:book:

Edit: He shouldn't have a battle rating that high either.....man is that forged...:no:

[Askthepizzaguy]

That's not the standard cover role PM, but that doesn't mean it couldn't still be legitimate.

All this whining over the "pro-town network" which is comprised of the MURDERED and completely innocent Sasaki Kojiro, myself, a dead mason, and my partner, a mason, is ludicrous. I've shared information with no one else, and I've gotten info from half the town.

[Andres]

You sound exactly like your mafia self andres...


Yeah, and you also know about Andres and loyalty. I propose an alliance with town. As far as I know, I've never broken an alliance in a mafia game.

In Capo II, I could have easily betray the Stracci family and continue the game with Louis (which was his initial plan, he was my 'buddy'). I didn't, out of loyalty to my teammates.

In this game, I'm solo and I offer an alliance. You know how valid my word is, even in these games of lies and deception.

[Andres]

??? I don't buy it.....even Ares didn't have his greetings in it:book:

Yeah, mine is a genuine cover pm. Did you really think I could have made that one up within the time between Sasaki's post and mine?

[TinCow]

All this whining over the "pro-town network" which is comprised of the MURDERED and completely innocent Sasaki Kojiro, myself, a dead mason, and my partner, a mason, is ludicrous. I've shared information with no one else, and I've gotten info from half the town.

Pull the other one.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Yeah, and you also know about Andres and loyalty. I propose an alliance with town. As far as I know, I've never broken an alliance in a mafia game.

Let's see... Crazed Rabbit used his "Truth" reputation to win a mafia game. I used my reputation as "always pro-town, as host, as neutral, even as mafia" (ludicrous) to stay alive in the You Can't Win game, then I backstabbed all of you and joined Andres. Andres now says "trust me, I won't let you down", in a game of guile and deceit. :laugh2:

I find that quite amusing. :smash:

[shlin28]

Woohoo! The mafia wasted a kill... sucker :2thumbsup: They targetted little weak me instead of killing other potentially pro-town roles. w00t!

I suggest we lynch FH, cos Andres would act as a check on the Good Men's power.

*ghost fades into the background*

[White_eyes:D]

That's not the standard cover role PM, but that doesn't mean it couldn't still be legitimate.

All this whining over the "pro-town network" which is comprised of the MURDERED and completely innocent Sasaki Kojiro, myself, a dead mason, and my partner, a mason, is ludicrous. I've shared information with no one else, and I've gotten info from half the town.

:no::no::no::no::no: I have a bad feeling about Sasaki.....which is..."don't trust him, as far as you can throw him":wink:

[shlin28]

Why just Sasaki? Plenty of others have been killed and should also be COMPLETELY INNOCENT.

[Andres]

Let's see... Crazed Rabbit used his "Truth" reputation to win a mafia game. I used my reputation as "always pro-town, as host, as neutral, even as mafia" (ludicrous) to stay alive in the You Can't Win game, then I backstabbed all of you and joined Andres. Andres now says "trust me, I won't let you down", in a game of guile and deceit. :laugh2:

I find that quite amusing. :smash:

I think I deserve the reputation of never ever having let my allies down in mafia. There has not been a single mafia game where I backstabbed my allies.

I offer town an alliance in return for my survival. It's up to you guys to accept or to waste my abilities.

[Jolt]

??? I don't buy it.....even Ares didn't have his greetings in it:book:

Edit: He shouldn't have a battle rating that high either.....man is that forged...:no:

Mine has greetings in it. I would suppose its actually wierd that yours doesn't.

[shlin28]

??? I don't buy it.....even Ares didn't have his greetings in it:book:

Edit: He shouldn't have a battle rating that high either.....man is that forged...:no:

4 apparently is pretty high (says the Priest King) and my PM had a greetings in it :book:

Edit: I totally misread the quote... foolish foolish me... IGNORE THIS

[Askthepizzaguy]

The fewer people are trusted, the better. Information can only flow in one direction for the masons to be effective.

And who is to say I haven't been feeding Sasaki false information to see if he is loyal to us or not?

[White_eyes:D]

Mine has greetings in it. I would suppose its actually wierd that yours doesn't.

:inquisitive::inquisitive::inquisitive:I posted mine WAY earlier....I EVEN pointed out the fact, that Ares didn't have his before Sasaki did, leading us to think it must have been fake.....:book:

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Complete trust? In a non-standard mafia game? Not gonna happen. Do we believe Sasaki is an innocent -- yes. Are we 100% certain -- no. We don't know ALL of his objectives. Andres' reveal could be 100% true (the cover looks right, as does the humor in it). But his objectives make it very clear that 100% innocence is not a guarantee. Reenk seems to like to lemonade -- there's always a bit of bite to go along with the sweet.

[TinCow]

And who is to say I haven't been feeding Sasaki false information to see if he is loyal to us or not?

I think you underestimate Sasaki to your peril. He is one of the best mafia players hands down. The first evidence that you would receive that Sasaki was playing you was when the game host posted that he had won the game and you had lost.

[GeneralHankerchief]

That's not the standard cover role PM, but that doesn't mean it couldn't still be legitimate.

All this whining over the "pro-town network" which is comprised of the MURDERED and completely innocent Sasaki Kojiro, myself, a dead mason, and my partner, a mason, is ludicrous. I've shared information with no one else, and I've gotten info from half the town.

And you've just been shown ironclad proof that Reenk has distributed multiple cover roles of various power. How are you to know the legit roles from the fake ones when it comes time to vouch for people, hm?

I look forward to seeing the town go down in flames once again to prove my feelings on this matter correct. :smoking:

[Jolt]

Oh. Must have been along those pages I skipped when the Ares discussion went hot. Bleh.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Dropping the kills to one a night should help us immensely. So far we've knocked a serial killer and one of the usurpers. I'd say 2 more usurpers is a reasonable guess...with a few more anti town individuals probable. Plus factions within the town for added mayhem.

I don't consider anyone trustworthy, even someone who starts the game as a townie can end up mafia.

[Andres]

Complete trust? In a non-standard mafia game? Not gonna happen. Do we believe Sasaki is an innocent -- yes. Are we 100% certain -- no. We don't know ALL of his objectives. Andres' reveal could be 100% true (the cover looks right, as does the humor in it). But his objectives make it very clear that 100% innocence is not a guarantee. Reenk seems to like to lemonade -- there's always a bit of bite to go along with the sweet.

The reveal is true. My offer is still valid. Lynch a potential useful ally or lynch Yoyoma, blocked when there were 2 kills, not blocked when there were 3.

Your choice.

[Andres]

Dropping the kills to one a night should help us immensely. So far we've knocked a serial killer and one of the usurpers. I'd say 2 more usurpers is a reasonable guess...with a few more anti town individuals probable. Plus factions within the town for added mayhem.

I don't consider anyone trustworthy, even someone who starts the game as a townie can end up mafia.

What evidence do you have that townies could be recruited?

[Askthepizzaguy]

And you've just been shown ironclad proof that Reenk has distributed multiple cover roles of various power. How are you to know the legit roles from the fake ones when it comes time to vouch for people, hm?

We don't. But we do know when someone has committed to a story, and can point out if their story ever changes. Getting caught in a LIE told to the masons is most likely what? Mafia behavior. And we can investigate EVERY single serious pro-town role claim.

You guys say I underestimate Sasaki, but I feel you underestimate me as well.

[LittleGrizzly]

ATPG be careful of trusting a contact purely because he's in your pm, most likely he is innocent but in Midgaard TinCow was mentioned as a champion of one of the lords... but he was mafia...

If you have a big enough group and lots of info flying around most likely it will end up in mafia hnds sooner or later... the only problem is mafia don't share info (or thiers at least) so it becomes a one way street of town giving mafia info...

Im sorry but by declaring in the thread lets block yoyo and see how many kills there are you are basically inviting the mafia to adjust accordingly to make yoyo look guilty... the n1 role block on the other hand has something to it... nothing concrete though.... mafia change amount of kills for all kinds of reasons...

Sorry Andres... i appreciate you revealing second role so we now for sure bad guys will have cover pm's... good work...

Unfortunately you choose to kill the good men off, sure your willing to stop now

Ehm, that would still be a town victory, wouldn't it?

My objectives are : exterminate good men + outlive usurpers.

Town objective is outlive usurpers.

Both me and town would win.

Why should we risk yoyo, jolt or any of the others for your victory condition. I want the town to win with as many survivors as possible, anyone who kills anything but usurpers is an enemy of the town that has to got rid off...

even if it is only jerks they kill ~;)

Im not too worried about you slightly faking your pm.. if i was to guess i would say its real...

I was not going to keep killing until I got caught, I would have stopped once all good men were gone and then I would still have to work with town, since I also have to outlive the usurpers.

Thats half the town's voting power and a third of the settlers!!

If one of or more the remaining mafiosi in the late mid/end game is a good man, then my role can be critical for town victory.

This is your best argument but still it isn't enough to sway me... the fact is if we sure enough a good man is scum we can lynch him ourselves... i suppose we could get down to a late game situation whee your services could be useful... but theres a small chance you would be needed... the threat you pose to the jerks is bigger...

[GeneralHankerchief]

ATPG, I've seen it happen enough times in the past to know that doing this is an exercise of futility.

The last game where I made this argument I got very worked up and accomplished little. So this time, I'll just provide you names of surely guilty people to lynch, as I did with Andres now. So you can trust either me, who has a proven record of giving you correct names in this game, or you can trust a system that has been proven to be a colossal failure. :bow:

[White_eyes:D]

Listen.....I can't forge PM's like Reenk can or do fake reveals like he can.....but I can tell you if someone has changed something in a PM....and I am telling you guys....Andres PM, both of them real and fake, is 60% bull:daisy: (I mean I had you guys going nuts in Godfather 3:wink:)

[Askthepizzaguy]

By the way, no one has come forward claiming to be the "real" investigator. As soon as the investigator who revealed to me dies, he no longer needs to be shrouded in secrecy, and we can make public his information at our convenience and at his request. Or it can remain a mystery. I'd absolutely love it if the people who have been timid about revealing to me do so now, especially if you don't have a role worth mentioning.

As for my partner possibly being mafia, if he doesn't reveal soon, I'll expose him and call for his head via a duel challenge, whoever feels confident challenging him. That should extinguish the possibility that he's anti-town, and if he is, he will be dead. I do believe I have covered the bases.

And if the investigator would like to investigate my partner, I will reveal him to you.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

The townie network now having grown to a point where infiltration is more and more likely, it is time to bring things into the open and have the whole town review and use the material. This first post will include my role reveal. A second post will include the PMs between my fellow herdsman.


Hello Seamus Fermanagh, thanks for playing :bow:


Damn it Shakespeare, how'd you get out of the pen? You poop in that pool and you're gonna end up lunch meat!

:stupido: You to your sheep

You are a Shepherd

Background:

Your line of work was never easy, or glamorous, or well playing, but it was very rewarding. Until the Tax Collector began to show that is. The man literally took everything from you, your sheep, your land, your children, and to top it off he demanded conjugal relations with your wife to pay off your debt.

When this point was reached, you had had enough. The Tax Collector was eventually dismissed from his post on account of the cost of the army that needed to be sent to accompany him when he visited the countryside, and so he went off to a new settlement to continue his evil work.

You are following him to bring justice and make sure he never oppresses others like he has oppressed you. You are accompanied by a fellow shepherd who has a similar history.

Battle Rating:

2 – Raising sheep means having to keep them in line, and while you haven't exactly had any type of formal military training, your background has made you scrappy if nothing else.

Note: In the case of a duel against the Tax Collector, both of you can fight together thus adding to your chances of victory (your battle ratings will be added). This double team situation will only occur in a fight against The Tax Collector.

Victory Conditions:

Outlast The Tax Collector
Outlast the usurpers (settler victory)

I have been fortunate enough to fulfill the first condition (nothing personal Beefy), and now am bringing out information to further the second.

As you can see, Reenk is adept at mixing things up. Beefy must die for my full victory -- but my victory is a result of the town. THAT is why I haven't dismissed the veracity of Andres' claim (though I am still voting for him). It's a magnified version of my own.

EDIT:

Heres the follow on message:



Hello Askthepizzaguy and Seamus Fermanagh, you are the two shepherds working together.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Revealing in public means nothing, as any potential mafiosi can just dish out cover roles.

[Askthepizzaguy]

He can be investigated if you don't believe him, GH.

And Seamus is, and always was, my mason partner, until the investigator proves otherwise.


In a PM to Sasaki.

I admit, I cannot 100% trust anyone's reveal. But I can say that the investigator was never counter-claimed, and if he did, we would have nailed at least one mafia; next, the investigator will be revealed now, thereby killing him (mafia won't allow him to survive), so that eliminates him as untrustworthy, and furthermore, everyone's claims or fake roles etc can be revealed now, so we can determine who lied to us and who did not.

Seamus is taking care of business now. GH won't listen to me, which is his prerogative. But I know I did darn good work this game, because whether I got correct information or not, the traitors are now exposed, or, we have correct information.

Either scenario is welcome.

[Andres]

Revealing in public means nothing, as any potential mafiosi can just dish out cover roles.

Revealing in private doesn't mean anything either.

[White_eyes:D]

Im sorry but by declaring in the thread lets block yoyo and see how many kills there are you are basically inviting the mafia to adjust accordingly to make yoyo look guilty... the n1 role block on the other hand has something to it... nothing concrete though.... mafia change amount of kills for all kinds of reasons... but we are going to lynch FactionHeir tomorrow....so why not?:shrug: that could be all the Usurpers right there.....:smash:

Edit: if we do what GH did in SOE (Randomly block)....then we have no idea who is Mafia/SK in the long run:shrug:

[Andres]

He can be investigated if you don't believe him, GH.

And Seamus is, and always was, my mason partner, until the investigator proves otherwise.

And how would you be sure about the credibility of your investigator, hm? Because he sent you his role pm? Which one, the real or the cover up?

At least my reveal was sincere. Yes, I'm a killer, but I'm not obliged to kill and I'm in the towns' hands now. I'm neutralised and I have an ability that can be put to good use. And I offer an alliance and most of you know that I never backstab my allies.

Vanilla townies victory condition is 'outlive the usurpers', so the game will end when the usurpers are done for.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Exactly. :yes:

Anyway, the investigator might be following his own path - after all, he is not beholden to the town's whims. He might also be dead.

Whenever you guys want some real results, just say the word. Remember, salvation lies within (the General). :bow:

[seireikhaan]

With GH, I absolutely agree
Too often, town groups give info for free
In the group, the scum lurk
While wearing a smirk
And embark on an easy killing spree.

[White_eyes:D]

With GH, I absolutely agree
Too often, town groups give info for free
In the group, the scum lurk
While wearing a smirk
And embark on an easy killing spree.

Wise words, Khaan.....Wise words:bow:

Edit: I don't trust Pro-town networks, since Family guy Mafia.

Edit2: and if I recall....in Godfather 3....Beefy got a LOT of info off pizza guy and taka:laugh4:

[Askthepizzaguy]

Edit2: and if I recall....in Godfather 3....Beefy got a LOT of info off pizza guy and taka:laugh4:

I gave beefy zero information. There was no information to give. It was a basic game. No one had a role besides the mafia, ares, and seireikhaan, and I was not privy to that information.

What info are you referring to? Conference in private please, this is offtopic.

[White_eyes:D]

It's still on topic....don't worry.:mellow:

Beefy passed Skynet.....then he gave us a list of targets that passed Skynet with flying colours...and we killed them....mostly because....in Private and in Public you GAVE him everyone who you could trust...and we killed them so you would only be able to trust Beefy....it was a double-edged sword though...Sasaki pinned us in the end by that:shame:

Pro-townie networks need to break apart a little more.....misinformation to other Pro-townies would help weed out the baddies....but I still wouldn't bank on it....:sweatdrop:

And don't trust Sasaki.....:no: he might not be Mafia....but if he is....you can be damn sure that he well get all he needs from you.

[Sigurd]

had to edit this, thus making the vote uncountable.
repost...
|
V

[Askthepizzaguy]

SkyNet is my opinion and it's also flawed, even if it's not totally inaccurate. It's not actual information. And yes, this is off-topic, so I'm going to refrain from further comment, much to the relief of everyone here.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

PMs from the "network" process.



Hello Askthepizzaguy and Seamus Fermanagh, you are the two shepherds working together.

Well, that sort of makes us masons. I've never been a mason before, but being able to work with someone is a pleasant change. Do you have any experience being a mason? Any ideas for a strategy? I'll be poring over the old mafia games looking for instances of mason players and seeing what worked and what didn't, as well as attempting to conjure up my own take on it.

My present theory is that there are usurpers both in the Good Men and in the Men groups, because it would seem rather simplistic to have the usurpers grouped all together on one side. Therefore I would suggest (even if I am wrong) that it behooves us to make friends on both sides of the aisle, and consider everyone suspect too. Because there are two of us... there is an opportunity here for much mischief. I never survive all the way through a game, and because I intend to be talking less, and given that people always suspect me and mafia hate me, I can plainly suggest I will be dead in short order. I will do what I can to survive as long as possible, and cover for you, in the least obvious ways, but eventually you could be on your own. I could end up claiming a role before I die, to possibly spare me the lynch for a round or two, using my patented "benefit of the doubt" system; unless the mafia kills me right away, in which case, I will laugh in their face and become my usual evil undead Zombie self by whipping out SkyNet and hammering them with the Spanish Inquisition until they squeal.

We're both good analysts, so lets both quietly analyze and share our data and so on and so forth. we have an opportunity to do some real damage to the usurpers together. I can do my usual psychoanalysis/posting strategy/voting strategy analysis, and you can do your usual strengths, which is looking for irregularities in posting length and frequency, etc (holmes-lite).

If you prefer less frequent contact, let me know, but I warn you that when I am partners with someone I tend to be chatty, even for me. I'd also prefer to do the chatting not on this website via private message, because all that PM traffic will be detected and I can't explain it away. I don't trust quicktopic, it gets broken into far too often.

Perhaps we could fire emails back and forth, I consider it the most secure method. Let me know what you think.

:medievalcheers:

my reply:


Pizza:

AFAICR, there have only be one or two games with masons in them. Their classic weakness is the same shared by the mafia -- you may know you're guy is innocent, but if you defend him too vociferously....

Still, sharing of thoughts and records will be worthwhile here. I think, for us, the basics of mafia hunting will not change save for that sharing -- which is cool because both of us have toget killed for any info generated to be "lost."

As to our special task, we are clearly meant to gang up on the TC. What "tells" do you think we should be looking for?

I'm guessing, since he needed an army with him, we're looking at a 1-4 fight value (giving even one of us a chance to take him down) but I'd say a 3 seems most likely since we're supposed to team him (I'm a 2 and I assume you are as well). So there will be advantage to both staying alive to join in.

What is the TC's individual goal? If we can deduce that, we'll be positioned to wanax him proper.

next pizza:



Pizza:

AFAICR, there have only be one or two games with masons in them. Their classic weakness is the same shared by the mafia -- you may know you're guy is innocent, but if you defend him too vociferously....

Still, sharing of thoughts and records will be worthwhile here. I think, for us, the basics of mafia hunting will not change save for that sharing -- which is cool because both of us have toget killed for any info generated to be "lost."

As to our special task, we are clearly meant to gang up on the TC. What "tells" do you think we should be looking for?

I'm guessing, since he needed an army with him, we're looking at a 1-4 fight value (giving even one of us a chance to take him down) but I'd say a 3 seems most likely since we're supposed to team him (I'm a 2 and I assume you are as well). So there will be advantage to both staying alive to join in.

What is the TC's individual goal? If we can deduce that, we'll be positioned to wanax him proper.

That's a good start. I hadn't been thinking too deeply about the tax collector's motives yet, because I do not know for certain what his motives are besides possibly outlasting us. I was thinking about possibly roleplaying as a priest or something. That should get people completely off the idea that I am a shepherd or a mason. I don't have to roleplay it too heavily, and I can just joke around and behave like myself, just nothing like a mason. But I would have to be sure that there isn't some priest somewhere else who will catch wind of my ruse and accuse me.

I intend to get some sleep before I do my heavy thinking though. My brain is fried from being up since morning yesterday doing this stuff, and pulling a true, hardcore inquisition in the Medieval Mafia down at Total War Center.

if email is ok with you, mine is askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com. I don't need to be caught doing private messaging over and over every day. :laugh2:

Another couple of slices of pizza, since I am checking periodically around work but he's more constant.


regarding "The Settlement" game:

Sorry fellows, for failing you so spectacularly, so soon. I officially hate duels now. :smash: I might not have panicked had he not been sooooo insistent that I was going to have to duel him. Given his aggression, I was worried he had a huge duel rating. The failure is as much mine as it is White_Eyes'. I panicked and revealed to him, on the hope he was just a townie making a mistake. Then he told everyone I told him I had a partner.

There was nothing I could really do at that point, TinCow quoted it and said we were now both suspicious.

:wall:

EPIC failure.


If you can forgive me for this absolute disaster, I am attempting to collect information for you.

TheFlax revealed himself as a Scribe with a duel rating of 1, and the ability to vote twice, as he is a Good Man. Now we have influence over 4 votes, for now.

That should keep us both alive for the lynch, and him as well. I think we can trust him because: He's not cruel, especially to me, and he revealed after a long, drawn out conversation about how upset I was about this game, and that the ONLY reason I am continuing to play is out of a misplaced sense of duty to the town and to my partner. If he lied to me at that point, after feeling pity on me, it wouldn't be TheFlax. He's capable of lying, but he's not mean. I doubt he would kick me when he is down. And he did say that he would vote however we want him to.

If there is anything else I can do, say the word. I am right now too upset to bother with an analysis of the game for a while. :no: The blunderous duel challenge and the role expose was disappointing enough, but to then be accused of faking it all, and the following:


Notice how he hides the truth with the jibber of the common man. I have bolded to stress it. This is why you get lynched old bean - people know you will come back from the dead to help the cause even if you aren't trying to pull the wool of some poor goat over our eyes.

I am really, really disappointed in town right now. I am trying to shrug all this off and continue, but there is like acid at the pit of my stomach bubbling up every time I look at the thread, and further accusations of WIFOM against me.

I'm taking a break to wash this failure off and accept my inevitable death. Will attempt to persuade as many people as possible to reveal to me, and I will pass that info on to you.

I responded when I got back on:



If you can forgive me for this absolute disaster, I am attempting to collect information for you.

TheFlax revealed himself as a Scribe with a duel rating of 1, and the ability to vote twice, as he is a Good Man. Now we have influence over 4 votes, for now.

That should keep us both alive for the lynch, and him as well. I think we can trust him because: He's not cruel, especially to me, and he revealed after a long, drawn out conversation about how upset I was about this game, and that the ONLY reason I am continuing to play is out of a misplaced sense of duty to the town and to my partner. If he lied to me at that point, after feeling pity on me, it wouldn't be TheFlax. He's capable of lying, but he's not mean. I doubt he would kick me when he is down. And he did say that he would vote however we want him to.

If there is anything else I can do, say the word. I am right now too upset to bother with an analysis of the game for a while. :no: The blunderous duel challenge and the role expose was disappointing enough, but to then be accused of faking it all, and the following:


Notice how he hides the truth with the jibber of the common man. I have bolded to stress it. This is why you get lynched old bean - people know you will come back from the dead to help the cause even if you aren't trying to pull the wool of some poor goat over our eyes.

I am really, really disappointed in town right now. I am trying to shrug all this off and continue, but there is like acid at the pit of my stomach bubbling up every time I look at the thread, and further accusations of WIFOM against me.

I'm taking a break to wash this failure off and accept my inevitable death. Will attempt to persuade as many people as possible to reveal to me, and I will pass that info on to you.

Hmmm. I think we must, at least tentatively, extend TheFlax credit as a good guy. It'd be nice to influence several votes at once if we can get a valid target for a lynch.

Don't take the "faking it" line of jargon as anything but a compliment -- they believe you have it in you to pull that level of subterfuge, and that is actually high praise (however vexing in the moment).

Boudica is a cavalier poster -- she enjoys jibes and banter. I wouldn't personalize it too much. She is correct that your style of play lends itself to worrying less about lynching you, since they believe it won't stop you from playing. While problematic now, Sasaki went through the same thing and came out fine in the end. I still have the same problem to some extent as well. It will pass.

Yes, given your reveal you should maximize the "go ahead and reveal to me" line -- but remember that some reveals may be more real than others. I'll gladly review exchanges you're unsure of to give a second opinion. If it gets you dead, so be it. Once revealed it is an unavoidable risk. Staying active and involved will minimize it, though, as the mafiosi will hope that your staying alive will lead to reavealing your partner or getting you lynched and invalidating anything you've said to that point.

Please continue to not name me for the present. I will save these PM's for revelation pre-death at need.

Pizza's research continued:



It would'nt kill you would it?

Don't worry. Mine is pretty damn low even with my little friends help:wall:

Not much info from Beefy187; except he says his duel rating is low. Working on getting more info, but seems the fish aren't biting. Hopefully I didn't die... and I can try to get peoples to listen to me this round.

I reply:




It would'nt kill you would it?

Don't worry. Mine is pretty damn low even with my little friends help:wall:

Not much info from Beefy187; except he says his duel rating is low. Working on getting more info, but seems the fish aren't biting. Hopefully I didn't die... and I can try to get peoples to listen to me this round.

No need for head-banging. What is done is done, and now that you are "public" you are following the best course open to you.

Keep me in the loop.

Notes on Role-play

Boudica is definetly playing the tavern wench/drunk thing -- too consistent not to be part of the role.

'khaan and shlin seem to be in that vein too. I'm guessing shlin has a high duel from his tone/references.

Pizza zaps back 2 minutes later:





It would'nt kill you would it?

Don't worry. Mine is pretty damn low even with my little friends help:wall:

Not much info from Beefy187; except he says his duel rating is low. Working on getting more info, but seems the fish aren't biting. Hopefully I didn't die... and I can try to get peoples to listen to me this round.

No need for head-banging. What is done is done, and now that you are "public" you are following the best course open to you.

Keep me in the loop.

Notes on Role-play

Boudica is definetly playing the tavern wench/drunk thing -- too consistent not to be part of the role.

'khaan and shlin seem to be in that vein too. I'm guessing shlin has a high duel from his tone/references.

Mmm.... tell me what you think of Sasaki. I made a case against him. All his posts since Night Phase ended smell far too eager to lynch Ares, even if he IS guilty.

I, snowed under with reading yet to do reply:






It would'nt kill you would it?

Don't worry. Mine is pretty damn low even with my little friends help:wall:

Not much info from Beefy187; except he says his duel rating is low. Working on getting more info, but seems the fish aren't biting. Hopefully I didn't die... and I can try to get peoples to listen to me this round.

No need for head-banging. What is done is done, and now that you are "public" you are following the best course open to you.

Keep me in the loop.

Notes on Role-play

Boudica is definetly playing the tavern wench/drunk thing -- too consistent not to be part of the role.

'khaan and shlin seem to be in that vein too. I'm guessing shlin has a high duel from his tone/references.

Mmm.... tell me what you think of Sasaki. I made a case against him. All his posts since Night Phase ended smell far too eager to lynch Ares, even if he IS guilty.

Wilco when done reading.

Pizza's next:


I think Beefy187 is the Tax Collector.

He mentions that he is unliked by most everyone here, and he mentions he cannot duel at all, but he has a friend. That's even public knowledge. Plus his odd Pm to me.

gathering more data...

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2172542&postcount=279
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2172404&postcount=273
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2173719&postcount=408
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2173729&postcount=412
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2173735&postcount=415


Why is having a cover role that suspecious?

I am hated by most of peoples here. I'm only doing what is necessary for my survival.

I reply:


plausible. he's certainly shy about his 2nd role and minimally role playing. Something is hidden there for sure.

Pizza next:



plausible. he's certainly shy about his 2nd role and minimally role playing. Something is hidden there for sure.

Just so you know, I asked him point blank in private if he was the tax collector.

Didn't think it through, I jumped right in. But I will tell you what he says, obviously.

My reply and sign-off at the end of the 13th.




plausible. he's certainly shy about his 2nd role and minimally role playing. Something is hidden there for sure.

Just so you know, I asked him point blank in private if he was the tax collector.

Didn't think it through, I jumped right in. But I will tell you what he says, obviously.

Dang!

You, my shepherd-partner friend, are a veritable terrier -- no one can fault you for inactivity for certain. Not my style at all, usually, though I must admit you've been getting more info than I would have expected.

Goes to show you that we all can learn new things, eh?

Please do keep me posted.

g/n


I'll keep the conversation going to share the info -- nothing like transparency eh?

Pizza:

If you would be so kind as to publish a summary of the "network" results, roles, etc. I'll add the PMs as raw data. Gotta go pee and then get a coffee.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

And don't trust Sasaki.....:no: he might not be Mafia....but if he is....you can be damn sure that he well get all he needs from you.


I don't really deserve this reputation :shame:

[Sigurd]

vote: Yoyoma

All though Andres could be fooling us and make another character in the night results, I am going to give him my support. At least we share the view about the good men.

tally:
Andres: 10 (boudica, Capt.B, CountA, Jolt, LG, Seamus, khaan, taka, TinCow, Yoyoma)

Yoyoma: 3 (Andres, Sigurd, Tristan)
Sigurd: 1 (WE:D)

Abstain: 1 (Psychonaut)
Not voting: 3 (FactionHeir, Ichigo, Lord W)

[White_eyes:D]

SkyNet is my opinion and it's also flawed, even if it's not totally inaccurate. It's not actual information. And yes, this is off-topic, so I'm going to refrain from further comment, much to the relief of everyone here.

Well....Skynet is not useless....iAndres was also nailed with it....and because of that we can assume GH is telling the truth about FH as well....I mean....hardly anyone is going to vote someone, just because a dead player says so...:juggle2:

[Askthepizzaguy]

@Seamus

I'll try, but it will take some time. I need to take a break, because I'm letting the game frustrate me again when it shouldn't do that. :laugh2:

*centers himself*

Mmmm..... just a game.... just a game.... just a game.... it's not much of a game if there aren't challenges to overcome. Mind over matter. Cogito ergo sum. Logic is the essence of function. I am in control... I am in control.... Soylent Green is people.



And Sasaki is cunning, and will betray you sometimes, but dang it, this is a game where you're supposed to do that occasionally. He does it more blatantly and without a friendly smiley face, but we all do it, so leave him alone.

[White_eyes:D]

I don't really deserve this reputation :shame:

It's a compliment:brood: Reenk=Ballsy Mafia or Pro-town, who can forge PM's and throw his buddies under the bus, faster then said bus~:pimp: Sasaki=Sixth Mafia sense of some sort, that most people do not have or know much about.....:fortune:

[Askthepizzaguy]

Give Seamus and I a minute, there's a lot of stuff that needs to be posted, and I recommended that identities be kept hidden, so we need to sweep away the names from the role PM's and that takes time.

Anyone who didn't claim a vital role can be named, I think.

[TinCow]

So let me get this straight. ATPG and Seamus discover that Beefy is the tax collector on the first day phase (since ATPG mentions his duel/challenge fiasco in that dialog, that's where it fits in the timeline). Beefy is then murdered that night. ATPG and Seamus state they are simple shepherds who can't kill. So, we're meant to believe that the mafia coincidentally targeted Beefy immediately after his role was uncovered by the 'network' and that it has nothing at all to do with the 'network' spreading around information that eventually found its way to the mafia? I won't even bother analyzing the fact that ATPG and Seamus admit they they needed Beefy dead to win, beause I think I would fall off my chair laughing at the absurdity of the situation.

[GeneralHankerchief]

No names. None at all. Otherwise the villains will use simple process of elimination to off the power roles.

[Askthepizzaguy]

So let me get this straight. ATPG and Seamus discover that Beefy is the tax collector on the first day phase (since ATPG mentions his duel/challenge fiasco in that dialog, that's where it fits in the timeline). Beefy is then murdered that night. ATPG and Seamus state they are simple shepherds who can't kill. So, we're meant to believe that the mafia coincidentally targeted Beefy immediately after his role was uncovered by the 'network' and that it has nothing at all to do with the 'network' spreading around information that eventually found its way to the mafia? I won't even bother analyzing the fact that ATPG and Seamus admit they they needed Beefy dead to win, beause I think I would fall off my chair laughing at the absurdity of the situation.

Welcome to my own personal hades.

If it makes more sense, Beefy left oodles of clues all over every single post he made. Oh, and he was a Good Man, was he not? And people were targeting those Good Men?

Personally, I don't trust you at all this game, TinCow. You've been an obstacle to our path forward the entire time, in my opinion. But I reserve judgment against you, because I don't know whose side you're on, and I won't just assume you're guilty and write off everything you say as a scummy tactic. it would be nice if you'd do the same for me.

[GeneralHankerchief]

You've been an obstacle to our path forward the entire time, in my opinion.

Wouldn't that make him more trustworthy? After all, a mafioso would be dying to be included in such a group.

[Askthepizzaguy]

No, that doesn't necessarily follow. Don't remember which logical fallacy that is.

A mafioso may choose to remain uncooperative, especially when more than half the town was.

[GeneralHankerchief]

a) The mafioso has no way of knowing how much of the town is taking part.

b) Ask yourself the question: If armed with a host-provided cover role and given the chance to join a pro-town network, would you take it?

[TinCow]

Wouldn't that make him more trustworthy? After all, a mafioso would be dying to be included in such a group.

"I don't want to belong to any club that will accept people like me as a member."

-Groucho Marx

[Askthepizzaguy]

b) Ask yourself the question: If armed with a host-provided cover role and given the chance to join a pro-town network, would you take it?

Possibly. But being part of the network is like being part of my foot. You don't gain access to the brain, and we can investigate your claims.

You're shooting yourself in that same foot to lie to me.

[Reenk Roink]

And here I thought that post counts would continue going down each round. :laugh4:

[Askthepizzaguy]

I really, really just wanted to hang back and roleplay a little bit this time.

Why, oh why, Reenk, did you make me a mason? :no:

[GeneralHankerchief]

Best analogy of the year award for the above? :laugh4:

And I'm not lying to you, I'm simply pointing out that a mafioso would definitely join a group if given the opportunity to. It makes life so much easier, because all your targets turn from adversaries to sitting ducks.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Anyway, ATPG, you're getting clouded again. Because I'm simply disagreeing with you you're now discounting the validity and truthfulness of my statements. If you really want to help then don't write people off simply because they have other ideas.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Good! I hope they would attempt to join.

Everyone who revealed to me must die before the end of the game, with the investigator being sort of at the end of that list. But first, we must squeeze that melon until all the juice is gone.

You sign up to volunteer info to me, and you are killing yourself as a mafia. That's my policy. That's what I am doing in the medieval mafia.

And you don't get jack squat for information from me, either. So either be selfless and help out, and accept the deadly consequences, or don't sign up. And I didn't reveal this policy beforehand, so anyone who lied to me is now royally Roinked.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

So let me get this straight. ATPG and Seamus discover that Beefy is the tax collector on the first day phase (since ATPG mentions his duel/challenge fiasco in that dialog, that's where it fits in the timeline). Beefy is then murdered that night. ATPG and Seamus state they are simple shepherds who can't kill. So, we're meant to believe that the mafia coincidentally targeted Beefy immediately after his role was uncovered by the 'network' and that it has nothing at all to do with the 'network' spreading around information that eventually found its way to the mafia? I won't even bother analyzing the fact that ATPG and Seamus admit they they needed Beefy dead to win, beause I think I would fall off my chair laughing at the absurdity of the situation.

I said myself that I almost protected beefy that night. He dropped hints that he had a role. Why would the mafia care about killing the tax collector?

[Askthepizzaguy]

And no, I am not writing you off GH. I disagree with you on a strategic point; I didn't say you were mafia.

In fact, having two strategies is useful. SkyNet got one fellow, but that alone wasn't enough in Godfather. An independent mind like Sasaki's got the others. Two valid strategies is better than one.

[GeneralHankerchief]

:laugh4:

You said I was lying.

[TinCow]

Everyone who revealed to me must die before the end of the game, with the investigator being sort of at the end of that list. But first, we must squeeze that melon until all the juice is gone.

Interesting recruiting platform you've got going there.


I said myself that I almost protected beefy that night.

If you were out 'doctoring' people on that night, why exactly were you returning home disappointed? Surely if your target lived through the night, you would have been happy.


Unaware of the events at the house of Gaius Scribonius Curio, Sasaki Kojiro walked back to his tent with a look of disappointment but also relief on his face. His work done for the night, he tried to get some sleep.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Sasaki Kojiro walked back to his tent with a look of disappointment but also relief on his face

:coffeenews:

[Askthepizzaguy]

:laugh4:

You said I was lying.

Did I? Where??? :no: I'm sorry. Was that a while ago or recent? I'm getting overloaded and I cannot think at the moment. For the record; I am not SURE about you GH. I didn't say that you were mafia, I said I didn't understand your motives or your unwillingness to justify Andres' death.

I did my own research and agreed with you, and his reveal tells me a lot as well. So I tend to trust you a little bit, but it's all relative. I distrust you just as much as I trust you; it's a wash.

I feel I am hogging attention again. Can people who want to talk to me do it via private message so others can get a word in edgewise?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I was busy with kids and clients, but Pizza was on the case:




https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2173669&postcount=399

Beefy187, I find your bandwagon stinky. And despite hints in private, you didn't sound like a townie to me. You also refused to claim a role or give me your duel rating, but if you didn't want to help out, why hint at all?

Sorry, don't mean to be a meanie, but I need more info or I will point the FoS at you for your bandwagon of Ares and also your subtle hint in private which was meaningless.

Don't mean to be hard on you, but I'd rather resolve this privately before I have to take it public. I am pointing the FoS at Sasaki now, don't need to be distracted by two arguments at once.

If you can answer my suspicions, I will drop it. You have a major role, and if it is protown, I need to know before I expose you.

Yes I'm the tax collecter. I have a friend who works towards the common cause and a NPC who does all my dirty works.

I was willing to give you my battle rating. But I wanted to what dueling does before I tell you anything.

Townie again are you ATPG? :smash:

:bow:

Your majesty's loyal terrier, thy name is Askthepizzaguy.







I'm sorry to decline but keep your offer in mind.


Hello, Good Men.

I once again implore you to share what info you have, especially if it is non-critical information. If you're reluctant to share your pro-town role, that is fine. If you have a high duel rating and don't want it known, that is also fine. But there are some risks worth taking.

Writeup tends to point the finger at Ares, so I see no reason why not.

Feel free to ignore this attempt at data mining if you disagree with the idea. My partner asked me to do this for him, and yes, he's a mason.

Suppose I told you who my partner was.
Suppose he confirmed it to you himself, in private.
Suppose I die, this round, in battle.

Come now, Unnamed... It's me, Pizzaguy. Throw your old ally a freakin bone here!

:laugh4:

All right, I'll leave it alone.

The only thing I can tell you at this time is that I'm loyal to the Priest King. Are you ?

I am proving that by accepting Sasaki's challenge even though he lied to me, he is virtually guaranteed to murder me, 3 is 150% of the strength of 2, so I am toast.

And I already know someone's identity who is a pro town role.

I am not asking much; just knowing an ability (non-critical, even)
Or, knowing your duel strength (assuming it is low, or medium... or if you trust me, high)

These things my mason partner can use to coordinate the town's efforts after I am dead. He will reveal, you know. Just not yet.

:medievalcheers:

Listen, Unnamed; it doesn't matter whether you trust me now or not. My partner asked me to do this snooping for him, because I was cruelly, cruelly exposed by White_Eyes on round one, and the mafia will murder me eventually. I just cannot take the risk that the town will waste a valuable lynch on me, because the longer I wait, the more the town will grow suspect of my innocence.

I am being awfully obvious, and giving you my life, if I were not pro-town. That level of ballsiness deserves some recognition, but it's not even about that. Occam's razor: I offered to die, over and over. I accepted a fatal duel. What am I?

For the sake of our comradeship (The more fool me, if you're lying), I'll choose to trust you.

I am a pro-town role with an ability allowing tampering with the votes before the end of day phase, the extent of which I will not tell at this point.

I will not reveal anything else unless I have further confirmation of where your loyalty truly resides.

Lightning strikes twice in a single round, my friend. Should we trust Unnamed? If he betrays us, we know he is a mafia.

By the way,

:bow:

I finally am vindicated as a useful person. :laugh2: But you knew that already. Thanks for the kind words.


So, to summarize:

Sasaki made an offer to join a cult, and I foolishly accepted (who wouldn't?)

And he was a liar the whole time. Probably a townie, though, sadly. He threw a wrench into my plans.

We will need to lynch Beefy187, because we can no longer duel him. I did my best, but Sasaki discrediting me makes me useless to you now, and I need to not waste a town's lynch on myself.

I replied (finding it almost impossible to keep up with the sheer volume of pizza's efforts):



So, to summarize:

Sasaki made an offer to join a cult, and I foolishly accepted (who wouldn't?)

And he was a liar the whole time. Probably a townie, though, sadly. He threw a wrench into my plans.

We will need to lynch Beefy187, because we can no longer duel him. I did my best, but Sasaki discrediting me makes me useless to you now, and I need to not waste a town's lynch on myself.

Much good learning here pizzaguy. I am saving all of these and can reveal a wad of info at the correct moment.

As long as you are alive, we can still double team Beefy. I'd have to challenge probably, but you could still help.

We'll chat

Pizza:


Regarding beefy:

He is probably pro-town, though Seamus; and the idea is to outlast him, perhaps, not destroy him. I say he is pro-town because he didn't really hesitate to reveal through CLUES to the town that he might be the tax collector, even though he knows people are gunning for him; and he totally admitted it in private to me.

We should hold off unless he can get lynched or investigated or something. I don't want to toss Beefy to the wolves just because he's an unpopular townie who people want to destroy.

But, I defer to your wisdom. If you want him dead, I will challenge him.


RESPONSE TO PERSONAL ADVICE FROM ME REGARDING SPORTSMANSHIP DELETED


Me:

[QUOTE=Seamus Fermanagh][QUOTE=Askthepizzaguy]Regarding beefy:

He is probably pro-town, though Seamus; and the idea is to outlast him, perhaps, not destroy him. I say he is pro-town because he didn't really hesitate to reveal through CLUES to the town that he might be the tax collector, even though he knows people are gunning for him; and he totally admitted it in private to me.

We should hold off unless he can get lynched or investigated or something. I don't want to toss Beefy to the wolves just because he's an unpopular townie who people want to destroy.

But, I defer to your wisdom. If you want him dead, I will challenge him.

I am not sure we should challenge yet. It may be best to wait, I agree. let me catch up on thread at least (I'm back at 480)

REPEAT OF MATERIAL DELETED ABOVE.

Fair enough. My point was REMAINDER OF MY RESPONSE TO PERSONAL ISSUE DELETED.

Also Me:


1. Let's wait quietly for the night to end.

2. Yes, we'll challenge Beefy (who, though we can't be certain, I believe you DID get a true reveal from) -- but I don't think you'll be murdered so, for now, we should delay the challenge.

3. We have to be VERY careful about infiltration and duplicity in your PM research. You seem good at cajoling confessions -- as our departed scribe's history suggests -- but we need that "grain of salt."

4. So far, this is shaping up nicely. I WILL reveal everything prior to my death -- unless I am night killed -- but unless both of us get dead at the same time, we will have these as a record of the research, which SHOULD be public at least eventually.

Pizza:



1. Let's wait quietly for the night to end.

2. Yes, we'll challenge Beefy (who, though we can't be certain, I believe you DID get a true reveal from) -- but I don't think you'll be murdered so, for now, we should delay the challenge.

3. We have to be VERY careful about infiltration and duplicity in your PM research. You seem good at cajoling confessions -- as our departed scribe's history suggests -- but we need that "grain of salt."

4. So far, this is shaping up nicely. I WILL reveal everything prior to my death -- unless I am night killed -- but unless both of us get dead at the same time, we will have these as a record of the research, which SHOULD be public at least eventually.


Oh, I believe we can do reveals post mortem in this game. Just so you know.

*double checks the rulez*

Pizza quickly added:


And additionally; I make no note of the truthfulness of their claims. Only time will tell on that. I don't believe the mafia want to be caught in a lie, do they?

Odds are good that it is good info, and the more info I get, the more accurate it is.


Me:



And additionally; I make no note of the truthfulness of their claims. Only time will tell on that. I don't believe the mafia want to be caught in a lie, do they?

Odds are good that it is good info, and the more info I get, the more accurate it is.

Fair point.

btw, I think I could reveal after death, but not put out the PMs.

Pizza:




And additionally; I make no note of the truthfulness of their claims. Only time will tell on that. I don't believe the mafia want to be caught in a lie, do they?

Odds are good that it is good info, and the more info I get, the more accurate it is.

Fair point.

btw, I think I could reveal after death, but not put out the PMs.

You could send the role pm's to someone we trust. But we need to know who that is, then!

That wrapped it for the 14th, and there was nothing on the 15th. I'll continue in the next post. At the advice of my partner, I am not naming living players by name. The alteration are perfectly obvious, for clarity.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I exhausted you, didn't I Seamus?

Woe be upon any mortal who is unfortunate enough to be my mason partner. :no:

[GeneralHankerchief]

Nevermind upon another read I misconstrued your statement. Carry on. :bow:

Anyway, I'll leave you be as March Madness is getting interesting.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I exhausted you, didn't I Seamus?

Woe be upon any mortal who is unfortunate enough to be my mason partner. :no:

Anybody who faults your dedication is barking up the wrong tree, that's for sure.


EDIT: Doing a quick scan, will post the PMage from 16/17/18 later on -- simply no time before the meeting.

[Jolt]

I'm simply pointing out that a mafioso would definitely join a group if given the opportunity to. It makes life so much easier, because all your targets turn from adversaries to sitting ducks.

QFT. I'm not gonna hand out my information to people who I don't know who they'll share with. I won't reveal whatever my role is to people which I have no control whatsoever as to who hears it or not. I don't like it from the simple point of view that whoever ATPG trusts isn't trustable. Such as Sasaki which was member of some kind of cult, recruited people around and was killed by an apparent neutral god. I'm not gonna put my fate is ATPG (And whoever ATPG decides it is worth sharing the information) hands.

[CountArach]

I'm starting to become more and more convinced by ATPG's defence of himself - he seems very much genuine about not killing Beefy and I can't think of a rationale for why he would continue to kill on all succeeding nights. I am sure he will be investigated during the night and we sall receive confirmation eventually on this.

I don't agree with the townie network though - just throwing it out there.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I have no defense here, only proof that I've been putting on a really, really, really elaborate performance as a townie if I were mafia.

I'm not so dumb, and Seamus was in on it the whole time, so if you lynch him, you will know I am not lying.

He will even agree to it, I am sure.

[Reenk Roink]

orders please

[Reenk Roink]

:stupido: Day 3


As the sky dimmed, the priest king Reenk Roink emerged from his temple complex with the widow of Hankerchief the self styled general at his side. She was looking much more perky than she did in the morning. The settlers, especially the good men among them, had convincingly decided that Andres was the guilty one. The whispering of the spirit of Hankerchief the self styled general told them as much. Of course, the spirit of the pizza guy whom they liked to ask was as chatty as himself in life and was organizing a settler network to catch the usurpers.

So Andres was tied and strewn on the ground, arms and legs outstretched. As he lay at the feet of the priest king the latter asked: "Are you part of the usurper plot?"

Andres vehemently denied he was, pointing out that he merely killed some good men because of an unrelated reason.

Reenk Roink was disgusted by this answer and nodded to one of the Bronze Companions who proceeded to thrust a spear into the chest of Andres.

Voting Record:

Jolt votes Ichigo
White_eyes:D votes Sigurd
seireikhaan votes Sigurd
taka votes Andres
seireikhaan votes Andres - final
Captain Blackadder votes Andres
Yoyoma1910 votes Andres
Seamus Fermanagh votes Tristan de Castelreng
LittleGrizzly votes Andres
Psychonaut votes abstain
Andres votes abstain
TinCow votes Andres
Andres votes FactionHeir
Seamus Fermanagh votes Andres - final
boudica votes Andres
Tristan de Castelreng votes TinCow
Jolt votes Andres - final
Andres votes Yoyoma1910 - final
CountArach votes Andres
Tristan de Castelreng votes Yoyoma1910 - final
Sigurd votes Yoyoma1910

Challenge Record:

none

Vote Tally:

Andres - 14 (taka, seireikhaan, Captain Blackadder, Yoyoma1910, LittleGrizzly, TinCow, Seamus Fermanagh, boudica, Jolt, CountArach)
Yoyoma1910 - 4 (Andres, Tristan de Castelreng, Sigurd)
Sigurd - 1 (White_eyes:D)

abstain: 1 (Psychonaut)

Challenge List:


Alive:

taka
White_eyes:D
seireikhaan
Lord Winter
Captain Blackadder
Psychonaut
CountArach
FactionHeir
boudica
Jolt
TinCow
Ichigo
Yoyoma1910
Tristan de Castelrang
Sigurd
LittleGrizzly
Seamus Fermanagh

Executed:

777Ares777
Askthepizzaguy
Andres

Fallen in battle:


Killed:

TheFlax
pevergreen
Gaius Scribonius Curio
Sasaki Kojiro
Beefy187
shlin28
GeneralHankerchief

[Sigurd]

Vote Tally:

Andres - 14 (taka, seireikhaan, Captain Blackadder, Yoyoma1910, LittleGrizzly, TinCow, Seamus Fermanagh, boudica, Jolt, CountArach)
Yoyoma1910 - 4 (Andres, Tristan de Castelreng, Sigurd)
Sigurd - 1 (White_eyes:D)

abstain: 1 (Psychonaut)


Heh... someone is manipulating the tally.
OR... somehow the good men's votes counts twice ... :mean:

[Askthepizzaguy]

Yes, that is the case with the Good Men's votes.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Heh... someone is manipulating the tally.
OR... somehow the good men's votes counts twice ... :mean:

Where have you been Sigurd, where have you been.

[Thermal]

Anyways, the tally is (I think):

Andres 7 (taka, Capt. Blackadder, Yoyoma, sereikhaan)
Ichigo 2 (Jolt)
Tristan 1 (Seamus)

Did I miss something? :laugh4:

[Sigurd]

Where have you been Sigurd, where have you been.
Sorry... I must have missed that.
Things at work keeps my wits occupied. And as a man, I can't keep two things in my head at the same time. :beam:

[Askthepizzaguy]

I am not sure that your lack of knowledge about the Good Men's voting ability isn't an act for our amusement. I haven't gotten much from you all game. Does anyone have any evidence one way or another on Sigurd? Guilty/innocent? Argument, case?

[Askthepizzaguy]

By the way, this is basically the last chance for anyone to reveal to Seamus. We can't repost your information via quote if he is dead, which he should be, tonight.

At least give him the duel information. We can at least use that to narrow down suspects for the future rounds.

[taka]

wow, this thread really jumps in post counts, i come back and see about 4 pages worth of new stuff already...

[Yoyoma1910]

edit....



Wrong character. Sigurd doesn't have a flock of sheep.

[Jolt]

I was gonna reveal my duel rating but since I don't know if/how it affects kills and chance of survival, it might be sensitive information as well, and I would rather not share with possible Mafia.

[Askthepizzaguy]

If you don't have an important role, nor a high duel rating, it doesn't matter. You are unlikely to be challenged, and you're unlikely to be able to help the town.


edit: With your role I mean. Not meant to question your mafia playing abilities. :bow:

[taka]

Andres vehemently denied he was, pointing out that he merely killed some good men because of an unrelated reason

so andres was the scribe killer?

[Captain Blackadder]

Yep he admited it his goal was to kill all the goodmen

[Askthepizzaguy]

So... can we stop blaming me for Beefy's death now?

[TinCow]

No.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I am going to crawl out of this coffin and eat you, TinCow. :laugh4:

I prefer the tangy taste of human flesh, but a large slab of beef, even if it does have a metallic flavor to it, would be quite nice.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Right, just thought I'd finish up the story of my brother shepherd and I for your perusal. Then I'll get back to the sheep....:inquisitive:....that didn't come out right....:shame:

Pizza began:


I nearly posted this in the thread, and thought better of it.

I also want to do something else. The person I am accusing needs to contact me in private, because I think I might have been paired as a Mason with the person responsible for these murders.


TheFlax
Anonymous Living Player
Unrevealed Living Player
Sasaki Kojiro
Beefy187

These are all people who I determined were innocent, and most of them were cooperative. As such, I revealed this to my partner. I know for sure I wasn't responsible, but these choices are a bit too coincidental for my taste. I wouldn't put it past Reenk Roink to pair an innocent Mason with an evil character and not tell him. This is probably just paranoia, but I do find this really odd.

This is probably really, really stupid. However, I am not a big fan of coincidences. :laugh2: Why is it that all the people who I find that turn out to be useful keep dying?

If you're innocent, you'll probably just accuse me of the same thing. Fact is, I am not going to act on this suspicion, and I'm going to drop it. Just know, if you win the game and were evil all this time, I suspected it really early.

So, like I said, I am dropping it. So let's forget about it and move on, and let's work together. I'll be your willing patsy if you are mafia, just because I think that would be freaking brilliant or both Reenk and yourself to do this to me. And if you're really a mason, the most logical explanation, then I can't toss you to the wolves.

Besides, if you get murdered at some point, I'd feel really dumb.

My answer:

QUOTE=Seamus Fermanagh]
I nearly posted this in the thread, and thought better of it.

I also want to do something else. The person I am accusing needs to contact me in private, because I think I might have been paired as a Mason with the person responsible for these murders.


TheFlax
Anonymous Living Player
Unrevealed Living Player
Sasaki Kojiro
Beefy187

These are all people who I determined were innocent, and most of them were cooperative. As such, I revealed this to my partner. I know for sure I wasn't responsible, but these choices are a bit too coincidental for my taste. I wouldn't put it past Reenk Roink to pair an innocent Mason with an evil character and not tell him. This is probably just paranoia, but I do find this really odd.

This is probably really, really stupid. However, I am not a big fan of coincidences. :laugh2: Why is it that all the people who I find that turn out to be useful keep dying?

If you're innocent, you'll probably just accuse me of the same thing. Fact is, I am not going to act on this suspicion, and I'm going to drop it. Just know, if you win the game and were evil all this time, I suspected it really early.

So, like I said, I am dropping it. So let's forget about it and move on, and let's work together. I'll be your willing patsy if you are mafia, just because I think that would be freaking brilliant or both Reenk and yourself to do this to me. And if you're really a mason, the most logical explanation, then I can't toss you to the wolves.

Besides, if you get murdered at some point, I'd feel really dumb.

I'm not a mafioso, so put that to rest. Can't blame you for the sense of worry though -- coincidences aren't always just that in these games.

I have to read of Beefy and Sask still, give me a bit.[/QUOTE]

I then posted in the thread and added privately:


Pizza:

Don't need you to respond by dumping PMs into the thread, just had to poke around at you to make you a little suspicisious.

Nice to be done with the minor victory condition so quickly.

Pizza:



Pizza:

Don't need you to respond by dumping PMs into the thread, just had to poke around at you to make you a little suspicisious.

Nice to be done with the minor victory condition so quickly.

Sigh... like I said; if you were mafia, this is hilarious and brilliant. Just leave me alone; don't kill me. I actually do enjoy being alive, in spite of my constant offers to die. I am on your team, whichever that is. I'll do my best work for the town, but I won't expose you. At least not for a long time. I promise.

:shakehands:

Paranoia.... mighty, mighty Paranoia... the god of the downtrodden mafia player.

Pizza went on to have another productive day:


More info for you sir. I shall not fail to exhaust myself in your service.



Hello Another Unnamed Living Player, thanks for playing :bow:


If thou ever feeleth the desire to striketh another, restrain thyself and burneth a pound of meat to OsiOsi. He will allow thee to bed the wife of thee enemy.

:stupido: A priest's sermon

You are a Priest

Background:

There are a two prerequisites for becoming a priest:

1) Being old
2) Being a virgin

After that you can worship the gods all the time instead of just on weekends!

Battle Rating:

1 – Devoting yourself to the rituals of the gods leaves little time for military training. The strongest man is the one with the strongest faith as you say.

Victory Conditions:

Outlast the usurpers (settler victory)

NAME-REVEALING EXAMPLE DELETED HERE




If your duel rating is 3 or better, I'll accept unconditionally.

Please don't die trying to eliminate me as a suspect. I'm ready to go down, but I want to be massacred.

Also, if you want me dead, and not to duel me, just let me know you want me to duel someone. Shlin28 offered.
My score is....four. POTENTIAL IDENTITY REVEALER REMOVED
Once more, I offer you a gift of information. There is a method to the madness that is Pizzaguy.


Under severe pressure from town, I revealed you to Sasaki Kojiro alone. he promised and swore he would tell no one, and he thinks you're innocent. he's also murdered, and what he did to me this game was the work of a misguided townie, not a mafia.

If you die, we will know it is probably Sasaki. But I really doubt it. Go ahead and consider him your unofficial mason partner now.

Don't reveal, keep yourself hidden.



How about 5:01? :D


Hello Anonymous Too Living Player, thanks for playing :bow:

[quote]We respect property. We merely wish the property become our property so we may more perfectly respect it.

:stupido: Thieves of Carn motto

You are The Last Thief of Carn

Background:

The Thieves of Carn started off as a band of thugs who engaged in petty theft and highway robbery but they soon grew to much more than that. Soon they were able to establish a stronghold and conduct raids and assassinations. A raid led by priest king Reenk Roink himself was launched against the Thieves of Carn stronghold where almost every last thief was slaughtered.

Only one thief survived. You.

You don’t seem to mind that your friends were massacred. You don't even mourn much for all the loot you had worked so hard to steal throughout the years. What really boils your blood is the damage done to your occupation and way of life.

You blame it all on one of the closest Bronze Companions of Reenk Roink. They called him The Watcher. It was him who was the first over the walls of the stronghold. It was him who killed your brother and took your brother's wife. It was him who embarrassed you in combat making you feign death so you would not be killed. While you lay there, pretending to be dead, he confiscated all of your loot.

Ever since that day you have vowed revenge against The Watcher. When you learned that Reenk Roink would make the journey to found a new settlement you knew that The Watcher would be there. So you would also be there.

Battle Rating:

4 – You are not physically strong but you are extremely quick. You have also had extensive training with weapons and fighting techniques as a former assassin and although a straight up fight is not your usual modus operandi, you can more than hold your own in battle.

Abilities:

Assassination: Every night period, you may attempt an investigation on one settler in order to determine if he is The Watcher. This will involve breaking into his tent or house to make sure of his identity. If the tent or house your break into belongs to The Watcher, you will assassinate him. If not, you will grab some loot and flee.

Victory Conditions:

Outlast the usurpers (settler victory)
Outlast The Watcher

Public Role:

DELETED LEST IN THREAD REFERENCES RESULT IN DEATH




[QUOTE=Anonymous Too Living Player]So, can I join the club? :grin:

I am on the town's side with a side objective of killing a certain someone (and my kill only works if it is that person, not at other times - then I just nick some items, like a healing potion from sasaki last night)


Yes, providing you quote me your entire role Pm within the next 5 minutes.

:bow:

Sorry, by now I must be certain. Shady people will try to infiltrate, but I trust you to a certain extent.

:bow:


he took like 30 seconds to respond with the full thing.

I'd been offline most of the PM/evening, and was just amazed:


I would never divulge this way in a PM exchange -- how do you accomplish this?

My wife can get almost anybody to spill anything, but it has to be in person and she has to have them talking with her for a bit.


Sasaki? I hadn't classed his murder as "clearance" yet.....

Still, your judgement has been strong thus far. I will read the thread a bit )offline from this morning until just now do to extended power failure in 23693 zip code -- including me, **** it.


Pizza:



I would never divulge this way in a PM exchange -- how do you accomplish this?

My wife can get almost anybody to spill anything, but it has to be in person and she has to have them talking with her for a bit.


Sasaki? I hadn't classed his murder as "clearance" yet.....

Still, your judgement has been strong thus far. I will read the thread a bit )offline from this morning until just now do to extended power failure in 23693 zip code -- including me, **** it.

You should not underestimate the power of the Dark Side.

Only through me can you achieve a power greater than that of any Jedi. The power to convince others using rhetoric, in a game of lies... to trust you.

It helps when you're headed for certain death and have been blatantly suicidal all game.


Me:




I would never divulge this way in a PM exchange -- how do you accomplish this?

My wife can get almost anybody to spill anything, but it has to be in person and she has to have them talking with her for a bit.


Sasaki? I hadn't classed his murder as "clearance" yet.....

Still, your judgement has been strong thus far. I will read the thread a bit )offline from this morning until just now do to extended power failure in 23693 zip code -- including me, **** it.

You should not underestimate the power of the Dark Side.

Only through me can you achieve a power greater than that of any Jedi. The power to convince others using rhetoric, in a game of lies... to trust you.

It helps when you're headed for certain death and have been blatantly suicidal all game.

I hope you win your duel.

Did you forward any of our PM's to Sasaki? I have a gut sense I won't get dead in this next night phase, but only because my limited posts make me lynch bait.

Pizza:



I hope you win your duel.

Did you forward any of our PM's to Sasaki? I have a gut sense I won't get dead in this next night phase, but only because my limited posts make me lynch bait.

Sasaki knows you're my partner, and he tells me that he won't tell anyone, and he also said that he didn't think you seemed guilty to him. If I were you'd I'd get in contact with Sasaki and coordinate your efforts with him. I've done basically all I can this game for us.

And I specifically do not want to win the duel. Seireikhaan has a duel strength of 4 and I wanted someone with such power to destroy me on purpose, so town won't be so foolish as to waste a lynch on me.

You're trading one living partner for 2 dead ones. Sasaki and I will do our best to lead the town to victory, hang back and do your thing, but don't disappear entirely or you will get murdered. Also, if you get murdered shortly, I'd suspect Sasaki, but I doubt it at this point.

And I didn't forward any pm's to Sasaki that were from you.

Which closed things for that busy day.

[Beefy187]

So... can we stop blaming me for Beefy's death now?

no

:clown:

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Pick up again on the 18th (no exchanges on St. Pat's) with Pizza:



I hope you win your duel.

Did you forward any of our PM's to Sasaki? I have a gut sense I won't get dead in this next night phase, but only because my limited posts make me lynch bait.

All right so I am dead, and I think Sasaki might be trustworthy. I wonder when we should use that information that you were given and how.

Not to criticize, just sharing: I'd like to hear a little bit more from you in terms of what you're thinking strategy wise. I like to at least learn how the veterans think, and if you have a strategy moving forward or if you're just playing it by ear. If you want to wait until the night is over to continue our efforts, thats fine, we won't get any real info at night just yet. But I think I can serve as an excellent liaison between you and the entire town, with information going one way; towards you. Anyone who trusts me now can share information, I just cannot quote PM's anymore. And if you have orders for the town, send them through me.

I'll even play as an oracle or something. A conduit between the living and the spirit world.

:tongue2:

I responded hours later:




I hope you win your duel.

Did you forward any of our PM's to Sasaki? I have a gut sense I won't get dead in this next night phase, but only because my limited posts make me lynch bait.

All right so I am dead, and I think Sasaki might be trustworthy. I wonder when we should use that information that you were given and how.

Not to criticize, just sharing: I'd like to hear a little bit more from you in terms of what you're thinking strategy wise. I like to at least learn how the veterans think, and if you have a strategy moving forward or if you're just playing it by ear. If you want to wait until the night is over to continue our efforts, thats fine, we won't get any real info at night just yet. But I think I can serve as an excellent liaison between you and the entire town, with information going one way; towards you. Anyone who trusts me now can share information, I just cannot quote PM's anymore. And if you have orders for the town, send them through me.

I'll even play as an oracle or something. A conduit between the living and the spirit world.

:tongue2:

The first two rounds are always a little haphazard. Things happen, often importantly, but you never see the importance at the time.

Starting day 3, I think we need to wring out the lurkers. Get them playing or get them gone.

Blackadder has been here every day, but not voted.

Grizzly voted white eyes, an "off" vote, but is active enough.

Sigurd and Tristan seem inactive, neither has taken any kind of a stand when voting.

Really, though, my strategy is pretty basic at this stage. Keep track of votes and activity, see whose tone is "off," apply pressure to get info.

Pizza:





[]

[]
Sasaki would like to know the full details of your role. I declined because you didn't give me permission.

Would you allow Sasaki to know your full details? He doesn't have a clue what you are or how strong you are yet. If you don't want him to know, I won't tell him.

Why does he want to know?

Because he is trying to figure out what to do with what little information he has, I am sure. And judging by what you've claimed to be, it's impressive enough a role where the mafia would want to kill you if they know who you are, and since just me and just my mason/shepherd partner know, if you told Sasaki and you died, we would know that he's untrustworthy.

However, I didn't tell him, and I won't, unless you allow it. Do you want to throw him a bone, or would you rather he chew on his own freshly-skinned bones?

:laugh2:

Also Unnamed Living Player is some sort of priest, probably osiosi, my investigation found.


Thank you very much. Ok, I haven't been following the story like I should have, being in too many games and hosting three... is Osiosi bad or good do we think?

Should I reveal this or keep it to myself?

Should I tell Sasaki or my mason partner? It's up to you, this is your data.

Meh, I don't care :tongue2:
OsiOsi = Good I think.

You guys both know Anonymous Too Living Player]['s claimed role. This is his investigation result on Also Unnamed Living Player.

And


Ok, I spoke to Also Unnamed Living Player and he revealed, without my telling him, correctly and precisely what Anonymous Too Living Player suggested was his role and which God he served. That means he is an investigator, or both Anonymous Too Living Player and Also Unnamed Living Player are mafia together. Given that this would be very, very, very risky to try if they were both mafia, given my response of asking for the detective (real) to reveal to me, we will know for sure they are both townies by the end of the round.

Second, if they are townies, and this ploy works, we might nail a second investigator or ballsy mafia who will come forward and reveal privately to me. I see that no matter what happens now, there will be highly useful information revealed. If Anonymous Too Living Player or Also Unnamed Living Player dies tonight, the odds would suggest either you or Sasaki is a spy for the usurpers. I am uncertain I should reveal any further information to either one of you to be on the safe side. As it stands, if either of you are mafia, the investigator has allowed himself to be compromised, but that was his decision, and Reenk told me that you were my shepherd partner, so if that is not true, :shrug: I did my best and those are the breaks.

I don't know when you want to reveal publicly, Seamus, but the window of opportunity could be over by the start of the next morning phase. Seems Andres is due to fall today, so you probably have until just before dawn to reveal safely. If you choose to remain in secret for another day, then that is your risk to take. We have a lot of information, and should be able to deduce what information we received is truth or lies. There is much that we know, and patience is the watchword. You don't even need to reveal until late night phase this round if you do choose to do so, but I think you may want to reveal by next round. All right so, let me know what you think. A living mason plus an investigator, and several townie roles revealed to us; that's a good starting point to hammer down the remaining mafia.

I answered:



Ok, II spoke to Also Unnamed Living Player and he revealed, without my telling him, correctly and precisely what Anonymous Too Living Player suggested was his role and which God he served. That means he is an investigator, or both Anonymous Too Living Player and Also Unnamed Living Player are mafia together. Given that this would be very, very, very risky to try if they were both mafia, given my response of asking for the detective (real) to reveal to me, we will know for sure they are both townies by the end of the round.

Second, if they are townies, and this ploy works, we might nail a second investigator or ballsy mafia who will come forward and reveal privately to me. I see that no matter what happens now, there will be highly useful information revealed. If Anonymous Too Living Player or Also Unnamed Living Player dies tonight, the odds would suggest either you or Sasaki is a spy for the usurpers. I am uncertain I should reveal any further information to either one of you to be on the safe side. As it stands, if either of you are mafia, the investigator has allowed himself to be compromised, but that was his decision, and Reenk told me that you were my shepherd partner, so if that is not true, :shrug: I did my best and those are the breaks.

I don't know when you want to reveal publicly, Seamus, but the window of opportunity could be over by the start of the next morning phase. Seems Andres is due to fall today, so you probably have until just before dawn to reveal safely. If you choose to remain in secret for another day, then that is your risk to take. We have a lot of information, and should be able to deduce what information we received is truth or lies. There is much that we know, and patience is the watchword. You don't even need to reveal until late night phase this round if you do choose to do so, but I think you may want to reveal by next round. All right so, let me know what you think. A living mason plus an investigator, and several townie roles revealed to us; that's a good starting point to hammer down the remaining mafia.

Its only a Mason role, so you're probably correct that waiting overlong is not wise. It seems correct. Also Unnamed/Anonymous Too are either a mafia team or what they claim to be. Let me ponder this (and sleep!) and get things rolling then.

I then began this multi-step reveal. There were several subsequent PM's from Sasaki and Pizza on how to name names or not etc. As you can see, I have chosen anonymity for the living in order to prevent the mafia from killing select targets.

Now, lets see if I can drain a bottle of the old parsnip and then snuggle up to a sheep or two for some snoring....and maybe wake up?

[White_eyes:D]

You know.....If I was Mafia/SK....I would know who to knock off because of one of those PM's....:mellow:

Thanks to you guys....I know who are detective is:grin2:

But if I say and he dies.....I would get lynched....:no:

[Askthepizzaguy]

You sent me a message in private White_Eyes, which I do not think you thought through properly, and I can point out glaringly obvious examples of the falsity of your thinking. But, by all means, believe it is who you think it is. If he end up dead tonight, that's a suspect down, and furthermore, we know you're evil. Good work, keep it up!

:smash: :laugh2: :bow: :shakehands: ~:grouphug:

Anywho. I repeat once again, and again, and again, and again.... reveal yourselves to Seamus. He will not survive now. That means both he and I are innocent. As for Sasaki, he's not getting any further information from us, so he has no further reason to keep the investigator alive if he were evil.

You don't have to agree with the pro-town network strategy, but with my death and Seamus', and our ability to make public the names of the innocent at any time, you know that we are innocent. We have both defended dozens of townies all game so far.

:bow:

Seems to me GH knows where we can find another investigator, or happens to also know our investigator, otherwise he's just got fine deductive skills. I don't feel it is necessary to have that person revealed, so keep that one to yourself GH, unless we have finally earned your trust.

:medievalcheers:

And White_Eyes... I've done a good job covering for you; so, perhaps it's time to tell me what your real role is before I accuse you.

[White_eyes:D]

I would not have said anything if I was the Mafia/SK......I would have been like "hmmm....must be him*sends in kill orders*", like in Godfather 3....I tried my very best to hide who I would kill:book:

Edit: Tevash, my Mafia partner was more....Random.ORG...:shrug:
Beefy was....nice even as Godfather....made it hard for him to kill any big named players though....not for me though:evilgrin:

[Askthepizzaguy]

I tend to believe you on that, but you should respond privately to the other accusation I made regarding your role.

[Andres]

I said myself that I almost protected beefy that night. He dropped hints that he had a role. Why would the mafia care about killing the tax collector?

Who said Beefy187 was killed by the mafia?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Not a top priority, but I believe White_Eyes sent me a fake role PM, and he appears to be fishing for the investigator. I want town to be aware of this.

I can't say for sure he's mafia, but I don't like this behavior and I demand an explanation. A real role PM sent to Seamus, or a cessation of all investigator-fishing activity. I won't say you're a top suspect, White_eyes, but this stuff just jumped you up about 8 notches.

[White_eyes:D]

Bring it on pizza guy....:smoking: (I warn you about something and you think I am up to something....typical....:rolleyes:)

[Askthepizzaguy]

1. All I want is a proper explanation. And if you do so, do it privately so you don't reveal your "theory" to the scum.

2. Your role PM stinks of fakeness. I've seen it before as a fake one. That's not proof, but if you have a second role, send it to Seamus or Sasaki IMMEDIATELY.

3. You deserve to be questioned for your investigator-fishing behavior, and your revealing a mason to the town. Don't act like you don't have this coming.




I am not saying you're a witch and we need to burn you this round, I am saying... explain it in a way I can understand, and do this for me, otherwise I've got to slap you with a "mafia" or "bad townie" label. The clock is ticking, I'm making a note of the time. Reveal your real role to.... SOMEONE.... or stand on the record as claiming to have a role which seems very, very faked, exposing a mason, and trying to determine who the investigator is (and being wrong about it, by the way)

[White_eyes:D]

No, I told you my role.....it's there for everyone to see....and sending you a second one well not make much sense...:book:

[Jolt]

I would not have said anything if I was the Mafia/SK......I would have been like "hmmm....must be him*sends in kill orders*", like in Godfather 3....I tried my very best to hide who I would kill:book:

Edit: Tevash, my Mafia partner was more....Random.ORG...:shrug:
Beefy was....nice even as Godfather....made it hard for him to kill any big named players though....not for me though:evilgrin:

Frankly, you would waste a kill.

[White_eyes:D]

Frankly, you would waste a kill.

I did that a lot in Godfather 3.....but it still got me to the end game:smash:
Tevash's Random.ORG method nailed the detective on night two.....and I was gonna keep Khaan alive till the end game...:shame:

[Askthepizzaguy]

I am still waiting impatiently on a rational explanation for your behavior White_Eyes. Not pleased ATM.


(IRL- You're awesome white eyes, this is all in-game, just doing me job)

[White_eyes:D]

Wait till nights over, to start grilling me...I have no way to say what well happen....:shrug:
And even if I did kick a sore spot in your network.....why am I getting grilled over it???:furious3:

[Askthepizzaguy]

@White_Eyes:

I'm awake right now, you're awake, and this can be done in-private.

Why should I wait? I'm not a very patient man. If you're town, you do need to explain what you're up to. That is not much to ask. I am not trying to get you lynched, I just want answers. Be a townie that I think you are, and please work with me for 5 minutes rather than against me. Don't reveal new info, I don't care. Just toss me a bone and talk to me honestly and without the accusatory tone.

I cleared space in my inbox, waiting.



edit: Thank you.

[TinCow]

Anywho. I repeat once again, and again, and again, and again.... reveal yourselves to Seamus. He will not survive now. That means both he and I are innocent. As for Sasaki, he's not getting any further information from us, so he has no further reason to keep the investigator alive if he were evil.

Seamus probably will survive because he is no threat to the town until the numbers get much smaller. Better for the mafia to kill people other than Seamus, because by doing that they might actually hit a threat to them.


Anywho. I repeat once again, and again, and again, and again.... reveal yourselves to Seamus. He will not survive now. That means both he and I are innocent. As for Sasaki, he's not getting any further information from us, so he has no further reason to keep the investigator alive if he were evil.

You don't have to agree with the pro-town network strategy, but with my death and Seamus', and our ability to make public the names of the innocent at any time, you know that we are innocent. We have both defended dozens of townies all game so far.

I urge the entire town to ignore ATPG and to not give him ANY information. Don't give him your role name, don't give him your duel rating, don't tell him what you can do, and definitely do not give him your role PM. ATPG does not know how to keep information secret, nor does he have a proper empirical method of determining what information is true and what is false. He believes parts of it and does not believe other parts of it according to his whims and his own assumptions which can never be perfect.

The town is far safer if all townies continue to play as we always have in these games, through slow and careful analysis of the evidence and by releasing important evidence when it is critical for the discussion. Do not give out any evidence unless it is immediately necessary for your survival or it will directly and immediately result in the lynching of a guilty party.

[Andres]

Yoyoma1910 or FactionHeir should be lynched.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I urge the town to ignore me and not give me any information either, because frankly I have too much of it already and my double-sized inbox is now full yet again, even after massive deleting.

If you have further information, send it to Congress, they apparently need direction.

[_Tristan_]

I'll agree with Andres : Yoyoma of FH have to go.

Reasons :

Yoyoma : his being blocked resulted in less kills in the nights he was blocked. Though not an absolute proof of guilt (mafia may have chosen to kill one less person for any reason...), it is enough to not let him wander around freely and force him to reveal or hang.

FH : pointed out by GH who unfailingly brought out Andres (for good or bad...)... No more needs to be said.

I'll add Tincow to the list of potential lynch victims : his whole attitude reeks of scummy behaviour... though I cannot point any single "flaw" in his statements...

[Captain Blackadder]

I am not sure that yoyoma should die at least not at first if you look through the death scene where he killed saskai it actually looks to me to be a vig of some description perhaps he is like andres but reversed but I think we can keep him alive a little longer nad see what happnes. On the other hand FH seems to be a good lynch target for now.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Maybe I am tired from lack of sleep, but I've noticed more than one townie accuse me of overlooking something, when they themselves grossly overlooked something in that very same accusation.

Two in the past hour, privately.

Please, before you tell me I'm not paying attention, please recheck your facts first. Thanks much.

:bow:

[Seamus Fermanagh]

While I am gratified to those who were kind enough to forward me information, I caution ALL players against jumping to decisions on lynches.

Sasaki is quite correct in that we should be careful about ASSUMING we know who did what murders. There is evidence in the write ups and we should make tentative assessments of who was mafia killed etc. But I stress a note of caution as well.

So far, unless I am totally lost, ALL of the roles contain a bit of sugar/vinegar -- good guy but must outlast X or SK of 33% of town but looking for town win -- and Reenk is a tricksy one. We must have a care for these inherent contradictions (kudos Reenk, its well crafted).

Don't just say "we must lynch x," but reference in the information and provide us a why. The arguments will get better and we'll winnow out the ones whose answers don't come to par.

That's all from "Sheepnet" for now :cheesy:

[Jolt]

Maybe I am tired from lack of sleep, but I've noticed more than one townie accuse me of overlooking something, when they themselves grossly overlooked something in that very same accusation.

Two in the past hour, privately.

Please, before you tell me I'm not paying attention, please recheck your facts first. Thanks much.

:bow:

Well, townies are the uninformed majority. :P

[Askthepizzaguy]

I feel I was too harsh, even in that carefully worded post. I apologize.

:bow:

We all make mistakes sometimes. Especially me.





taking a break. Back later.

[boudica]

ooc: It's going to take me any spare time I get this evening just to go through all those PMs you shepherds shared, let alone catch up on this thread. From skim-reading it I gather that Faction Heir hasn't responded to GH's accusation from beyond the grave.

ATPG - please no need to respond to this: I understand why you would put pressure on players for not responding to your questioning, but your idea of a timely manner is clearly not the same as everyone elses. Remember that while you don't need to catch up with everything you write - the rest of us do - even if it's just to spot the rare and potentially incriminating post by someone else in the thread :laugh4:

[GeneralHankerchief]

ATPG or Seamus:

Can you please elaborate on this series of PMs? I'm not sure what to make of it:




So, can I join the club? :grin:

I am on the town's side with a side objective of killing a certain someone (and my kill only works if it is that person, not at other times - then I just nick some items, like a healing potion from sasaki last night)

Yes, providing you quote me your entire role Pm within the next 5 minutes.

:bow:

Sorry, by now I must be certain. Shady people will try to infiltrate, but I trust you to a certain extent.

:bow:

he took like 30 seconds to respond with the full thing.

[FactionHeir]

I didn't respond because they are baseless and I already gave my part of the story earlier in the thread. Unless he actually has some hard evidence that he would post, there is no point in posting more WIFOM.

[boudica]

ATPG or Seamus:

Can you please elaborate on this series of PMs? I'm not sure what to make of it:

Seems like Pisuf (is that an insult?) is a paid up member of the United Masonic Shepherd Detective (and Pizza Delivery) Agency :laugh4:

@ Faction Heir - As GH has not elaborated on his claims your response seems fitting to me for now.

GH - care to elaborate further? :yes:

[GeneralHankerchief]

Working on it boudica, thanks. :bow:

[LittleGrizzly]

Be very careful to maken assumptions based off role blocking, another lesson i learnt from being mafia in midgaard, a few people were incorrectly identified as mafia or incorretly identified as innocent due to a role block being peformed that night... though it did also lead to increased suspicion on sarathos (if i remember rightly) who was mafia... just be careful to make too many assumptions based on role blocking...

Im intrested in GH elaboration on FH, in fairness GH has earned a good deal of trust with his discovery of andres....

[White_eyes:D]

Of course not, I kept my Treasure Chest O'Awesome to myself.
:laugh4::laugh4: I am tempted to sig this....:smash:

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Seems like Pisuf (is that an insult?) is a paid up member of the United Masonic Shepherd Detective (and Pizza Delivery) Agency :laugh4:


Yes, that player was & is claiming a detective role of sorts. While we could be getting "played," pizza was noting that the player's response to his "give me your PM quickly" WAS very prompt. It would not have been possible for that person to have constructed it rapidly in response to pizza's request. If we're being played here, it was organized in advance.

Moreover, the one shared detective result does seem to have been born out by a subsequent PM sharing with pizza. Again, this does not preclude an elaborate setup -- Tincow schooled us all that such are possible during Capo II -- but we all know such elaborate efforts are less frequent/likely.

[White_eyes:D]

But I had my own fake detective role, on Godfather 3.....it was not hard:juggle2:took me ten minutes....and I did it on spare time...mostly it would have shaved off one round for me and Beefy...on here? such a thing COULD be used to break into a Pro-townie network....and the fact that he has "discovered" and reported only one result....is troubling to say the least-suggests that you guys might have leaked it to get Beefy killed......:sweatdrop:

[Seamus Fermanagh]

But I had my own fake detective role, on Godfather 3.....it was not hard:juggle2:took me ten minutes....and I did it on spare time...mostly it would have shaved off one round for me and Beefy...on here? such a thing COULD be used to break into a Pro-townie network....and the fact that he has "discovered" and reported only one result....is troubling to say the least-suggests that you guys might have leaked it to get Beefy killed......:sweatdrop:

Could we be being played by a duo who had their stuff drawn up in advance? Yes. But it would have required a lot of prep effort. I said that we seldom see that level of prepared obfuscation, not that it couldn't happen. This gives me some but not compete confidence. We need information that is as glaring as that provided by Ares and Andres before I start issuing mental 85+% certainty evals.

The detection result I referenced is discussed under spoilers 3 and 4 of post 947 -- which occurred after the Beefster's demise. I profited from Beefy's demise, and would have dueled him to achieve it long about round 6 or so, but pizza and I (as discussed above) were waiting for our moment (having ID'd him) while turning to the larger project.

You really seem to be adhering to the concept that we were leaking Beefy's info to get him killed. To whom? If we were mafia or bad god mignons, we'd have killed him ourselves -- you said something similar yourself regarding your own performance in GF3 -- and if we aren't such then to whom would we have leaked his information? Beefy himself put more tax guy stuff into the thread than we ever did. So why the persistence in being "troubled?" Is it important to you that I be lynched rather than murdered or killed fighting? :inquisitive:

[White_eyes:D]

Could we be being played by a duo who had their stuff drawn up in advance? Yes. But it would have required a lot of prep effort.

You really seem to be adhering to the concept that we were leaking Beefy's info to get him killed. To whom? If we were mafia or bad god mignons, we'd have killed him ourselves -- you said something similar yourself regarding your own performance in GF3 -- and if we aren't such then to whom would we have leaked his information? Beefy himself put more tax guy stuff into the thread than we ever did. So why the persistence in being "troubled?" Is it important to you that I be lynched rather than murdered or killed fighting? :inquisitive:
It could be a cover role....:inquisitive: it sounds like it....if you get killed, give us the names of the two and they should be next on the chopping block....:smoking:

When did I say you should be "lynched?" I was in fact more pointing to how you were being fooled, then on how you might be fooling us.....:inquisitive:

Edit:GH's info seems more solid....which is why I would not want you lynched...there are better lynchees right now....:yes:

[LittleGrizzly]

Can someone clarify this for me...

We either have 2 detectives... one in contact with seamus and ATPG, and one in contact with GH, or we have the same detective contacting both, or one is being tricked by mafia...

Both are being tricked my mafia (i guess is a posibility...)

Did atpg and seamus recieve info on andres which im guessing gh did ?
Did whatever gh recieved on andres match his role ?
Have atpg and seamus had a similar oppurtunity to match roles and investigations with thier guy ?

[TinCow]

Seamus, I certainly feel like your attempts to get all this information out has been done with an honest purpose, but I don't see any practical result from it. I've read or skimmed all your posts, and I don't see anything that the town can remotely act on. Other than revealing your and ATPG's roles, this is the only substantive information I've gleamed:

1) There is a pro-town (the term is used loosely) role (The Thief) that wants to kill another pro-town role (The Watcher).
2) You are in touch with a detective who has provided you with a detective result on a single other person who is not guilty.

Am I missing something? Is there an actual accusation in there somewhere that I didn't see?

[Askthepizzaguy]

*takes a break from being on break*

I believe Seamus' objective THIS round was to reveal the contents of the PMs but not the people involved, before he died. We cannot do such after death.

*break time*

[TinCow]

*takes a break from being on break*

I believe Seamus' objective THIS round was to reveal the contents of the PMs but not the people involved, before he died. We cannot do such after death.

*break time*

Fair enough, but why? Why post all of those PMs when they give us no information worth acting on and I can summarize all the 'new' evidence in them in two lines? The only reason I can think of to do this is to exonerate oneself from accusations, and I don't think a single person was accusing Seamus of anything. This whole discussion, spanning multiple pages, seems to me to be manufactured for no benefit at all. That makes me very uneasy.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Tincow:

Pizza is correct. This way all of it could be in the public record for later comparisons and use. As you know, a lot of early clues only become clear as the situation clarifies near the endgame. I just wanted all of this data available then.

Your summary is acurate. Obviously, I do have the names and may now reference those in connection with already posted PMs should the need arise. Acting on this data now would be, as you rightly note, a bit premature.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Later on, and especially when the town demands we name names, we can reveal precisely who is who. But by then Seamus will be dead and quoting PMs will be illegal.

:bow:

The information will be useful to you LATER, and it's important that you know we know people who have claimed these roles. And sorry, but this does add evidence to the case that we've been behaving as masonic shepherds all this time, and also, that we've been defending the pro-town people who did reveal to us as best we can.



edit;

Seamus
posted Today, 14:41
Askthepizzaguy
posted Today, 14:41
Seamus; I think being masons has fused our brains together. Get out of my head! Stop thinking the exact same thing and posting it simultaneously!!!

[TinCow]

Alright, that's a reasonable explanation and I'll accept it. However, I do feel the need to point out that GH just got us to lynch a killer while dead and without any PMs or evidence of any kind.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Can someone clarify this for me...

aWe either have 2 detectives... one in contact with seamus and ATPG, and one in contact with GH, or we have the same detective contacting both, or one is being tricked by mafia...

Both are being tricked my mafia (i guess is a posibility...)

bDid atpg and seamus recieve info on andres which im guessing gh did ?
cDid whatever gh recieved on andres match his role ?
dHave atpg and seamus had a similar oppurtunity to match roles and investigations with thier guy ?

I have added labels to your points in your post for clarity.

a All of these are possible. It seems likely that GH has access to some source of info, but pizza and I have not yet received info that would let us know if we're referencing the same source.

b No info on Andres. All of my comments were based on his reveal/PM. I did use the PMs we'd received from others as comparison for format etc., but we did not get specifics on Andres.

c Can't speak to that myself obviously. GH was not part of our brief-lived network.

d So far, we only have the one apparent match/comparison. We do have other information on living players. Among the dead, as you will note, the info we received/generated regarding both Beefy and TheFlax has lined up with their revealed/claimed information.

EDIT

Pizza: I still havent' forgiven you for going Gotterdamerung on your sheep. Baaaaaad Shepherd, baaaaaaaad! But a pretty decent Mason. ;-)

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Alright, that's a reasonable explanation and I'll accept it. However, I do feel the need to point out that GH just got us to lynch a killer while dead and without any PMs or evidence of any kind.

Style of play thing. I've got a rep for evidence. When I claim "this is the ticket" people expect me to reference why. GH's style is different and he's validated differently.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Pizza: I still havent' forgiven you for going Gotterdamerung on your sheep. Baaaaaad Shepherd, baaaaaaaad! But a pretty decent Mason. ;-)

She was askin' for it. She was wearin' that sexy wool number I always liked. :smoking:


And I've identified several areas of my Mason play that can be improved upon, should i ever be a mason again. I actually think I made too many mistakes. Good info does not always a good mason make.

[Andres]

Alright, that's a reasonable explanation and I'll accept it. However, I do feel the need to point out that GH just got us to lynch a killer while dead and without any PMs or evidence of any kind.

Yeah, tell me about it :sweatdrop:

[GeneralHankerchief]

:eyebrows:

[Askthepizzaguy]

That's the same look that Fluffy gave me.

[White_eyes:D]

:eyebrows:

What, was it a lucky guess? or did you have a role investigation-type???:smash:

[Reenk Roink]

:stupido:


The man of a faction which wished to become heirs by marrying daughters of royalty returned to his tent much after the sun had retired to her resting place. He was incredibly disappointed as he tossed a short blade on the ground. Taking a drink from his canteen, he caught a glimpse of a grim faced, red robed man staring at him.

Spinning around, the man of a faction which wished to become heirs by marrying daughters of royalty quickly dodged a fireball hurled at him. The sorcerer of Vode was unfazed by the miss and prepared another fireball, but the man of a faction which wished to become heirs by marrying daughters of royalty was extremely agile and dodged everything thrown at him. He laughed and taunted the red robed sorcerer: "Hahaha! I am one of the best men of Carn, do you really think you can hit me?"

The man of a faction which wished to become heirs by marrying daughters of royalty then pulled out two daggers and threw them at the sorcerer of Vode, who simply waved his hand causing them to sway well off their mark. He then cast a spell which cause the man of a faction which wished to become heirs by marrying daughters of royalty to be surrounded by a circular wall of fire.

Seeing his doom, the man of a faction which wished to become heirs by marrying daughters of royalty pleaded with the sorcerer of Vode: "Please! I have nothing against you. I just want to kill The Watcher for what he has done to me and my friends. I know! I can help you. The Watcher is a formidable opponent, but I am a master assassin. We can work together, for I am sure The Watcher plots against you!

The red robed man's only reply was to grimly stare at the man of a faction which wished to become heirs by marrying daughters of royalty. He then brought his hands together and the wall of fire that surrounded the doomed assassin converged and burned him to a crisp.

As the sun rose from her slumber, all the settlers once again were called to the gathering hall by the priest king to discuss the most recent murder, although Reenk Roink was much less saddened by the death of this man whom he referred to as a criminal. All settlers were present on time to begin the discussion.

Challenge List:


Alive:

taka
White_eyes:D
seireikhaan
Lord Winter
Captain Blackadder
Psychonaut
CountArach
boudica
Jolt
TinCow
Ichigo
Yoyoma1910
Tristan de Castelrang
Sigurd
LittleGrizzly
Seamus Fermanagh

Executed:

777Ares777
Askthepizzaguy
Andres

Fallen in battle:


Killed:

TheFlax
pevergreen
Gaius Scribonius Curio
Sasaki Kojiro
Beefy187
shlin28
GeneralHankerchief
FactionHeir

Day ends on Saturday, March 21 at 20:00 Eastern

[GeneralHankerchief]

Well good, that saved some time. :yes:

[Captain Blackadder]

Hmm it looks like the townie infomation has a leak in it since I guess we all know who Anonymous Too Living Player was.

[Jolt]

bleh. It appears the doom & gloom were right as the network may well be infiltrated by what we just saw.

[TinCow]

The choice of FactionHeir is... interesting. It is indeed obvious that FH was the Thief whose role PM Seamus revealed. I'm not quite sure what to make of this. FH was clearly the leading contender for today's lynch, which makes his elimination odd, since he would have been an easy meat shield for the mafia. The mafioso must have thought he would get something out of this kill that would be worth sacrificing the meat shield. There are two possibilities that spring immediately to mind: (1) discrediting GH by proving that his second suspect was wrong, (2) making it look like ATPG's network had a leak.

However, both of these have problems as well. (1) is essentially pointless, since GH has already proven that he has at least some credible evidence because of Andres' reveal and the absense of the knife-killer last night. (2) could only be possible if the mafioso knew that ATPG's Network itself knew FH's identity. While this is certainly possible, it is very risky for the mafioso, as it would instantly point suspicion at anyone in the ATPG Network who knew this information. The mafioso would have to be either extremely ballsy or think that such an analysis would not point to him.

There is also a third possibility: the mafioso wanted to disrail the town's conversation and cause a bit of chaos. While I suspect this is more the case, we can't ignore (2) and so we should go through the motions on this one. ATPG/Seamus: do you have any reason to suspect anyone else who knew FH's identity?