KOTF OOC Thread

[Cecil XIX]

What's wrong AG, Austria not good enough for you anymore?
:clown:

Heading to Germany with the girlfriend until Monday evening GMT +1.

I'm handing over Alain to OverKnight until then.

I haven't asked him so if OK can't do it then you can have him attacked by his giant poodle and retire.

[deguerra]

Are we bashing Austria or Switzerland? :laugh4:

Either way I'm in :2thumbsup:


What's wrong AG, Austria not good enough for you anymore?
:clown:

[woad&fangs]

I'm back. Looks like I didn't miss too much while I was away.

[Ramses II CP]

So how are partial captures awarded? Is it simply being next to an opponent when he falls, or is it necessary to have scored a hit?

:egypt:

[TheFlax]

So how are partial captures awarded? Is it simply being next to an opponent when he falls, or is it necessary to have scored a hit?

:egypt:

By being part of the fight that brought him down. Its easier to gang up, but the reward is of course smaller.

[ULC]

Just an FYI TF, I will be at the hospital tomorrow, and depending on what happens, may not get my order in on time, since I am awaiting a response from econ.

[Andres]

Just an FYI TF, I will be at the hospital tomorrow, and depending on what happens, may not get my order in on time, since I am awaiting a response from econ.

Nothing too serious, I hope.

Take good care, YLC :bow:

[ULC]

Nothing too serious, I hope.

Take good care, YLC :bow:

It shouldn't be, but because my symptoms are rather ambiguous, it's hard to tell. I am not concerned however, mostly because prior to going into the hospital several months ago to learn that my liver was acting up (abnormal levels of a type of acid, indicating my liver was literally breaking down), which I quickly recovered from, I've never had any issues.

As to the previously mentioned liver, the cause was unknown, but abnormally high, and without obvious reasons as to why it was high. My primary suspicion was environment (was in a half completed House) or stress (my aunt and I never got along), but the former should have had a toxin as an indicator, and the latter seems farfechted.

[AussieGiant]

Well best of luck YLC.

Back, and by George I've done splendidly!!

OK is still in charge, I'll just make some ridiculous commentary on the side. I don't want to ruin the good luck.

[gibsonsg91921]

As much as I hate to spam old friends, you guys HAVE to join Capo de Tutti Capi III. We need two more players and the waiting is driving me crazy. I promise it's an experience you'll never forget.

[ULC]

Well, just got back from the hospital, and everything is all clear, although Iam extremely hungry and a bit dizzy. They did several blood tests (My blood is rather mineral rich, almost black in color), did a cat scan (found no traces of felines :laugh4:) and my body functions as if I was 10 years younger. The lady who saw me was very thorough.

Speaking of my Doctor, I am tempted to maim myself just to go back and see her. She was a wonderfully petite, young blond with a wonderful sense of humor and a light but reassuring voice that sounded like it belonged to Betty Boop. I didn't ask for her number because I chickened out.

So, any suggestions on which part of my body should start bleeding profusely?

[GeneralHankerchief]

Don't get hurt man, go right back to that hospital and ask for her number! You can do it! :cheerleader:

[OverKnight]

So, any suggestions on which part of my body should start bleeding profusely?

Doctors can't date people they're treating so you have to work around that. IE Conversation rather than bleeding.

[Vladimir]

Well, just got back from the hospital, and everything is all clear, although Iam extremely hungry and a bit dizzy. They did several blood tests (My blood is rather mineral rich, almost black in color), did a cat scan (found no traces of felines :laugh4:) and my body functions as if I was 10 years younger. The lady who saw me was very thorough.

Speaking of my Doctor, I am tempted to maim myself just to go back and see her. She was a wonderfully petite, young blond with a wonderful sense of humor and a light but reassuring voice that sounded like it belonged to Betty Boop. I didn't ask for her number because I chickened out.

So, any suggestions on which part of my body should start bleeding profusely?

Bad news on the black blood there. Do you combust when exposed to sunlight?

Anyway, I recommend a full physical. Tell her you're joining the army or something. Make sure it's thorough. (but only ask for two fingers) :yes:

[ULC]

Doctors can't date people they're treating so you have to work around that. IE Conversation rather than bleeding.

Aww...I just want to make it awkward. I'm not good at this "dating thing" especially the "starting" part :sweatdrop:.


Don't get hurt man, go right back to that hospital and ask for her number! You can do it! :cheerleader:

Seems the most valid point, if only I had the guts :laugh4:


Bad news on the black blood there. Do you combust when exposed to sunlight?

Anyway, I recommend a full physical. Tell her you're joining the army or something. Make sure it's thorough. (but only ask for two fingers) :yes:

Actually, no, I do not combust on contact with sunlight :laugh4:. It's just mineral rich, I'm not an Orc or Vampire people!

[AussieGiant]

Aww...I just want to make it awkward. I'm not good at this "dating thing" especially the "starting" part :sweatdrop:.

Lets be clear YLC.

NO one is good at the "dating, starting thing". If they say they are their full of :balloon2: and have no clue.

Get in their son!!

[OverKnight]

Maybe it's because my avatar got curb stomped, but I'm ready for the main event to begin. :laugh4:

Kudos to TheFlax for running the Tourney. :2thumbsup: I think we got some good character moments.

[Andres]

Aww...I just want to make it awkward. I'm not good at this "dating thing" especially the "starting" part :sweatdrop:.


Join the club. Might as well go in and tell her that you never know how to ask somebody out for a date and ask her if she wants to ask you out instead :shrug:

[TheFlax]

Maybe it's because my avatar got curb stomped, but I'm ready for the main event to begin. :laugh4:

Apologies, I got an early birthday dinner with the family last evening and when I got back home, I was spent. Nevertheless, at 5 AM I woke up with a sense of purpose and telling myself "Screw this sleeping thing, I've got a tournament to run!" :clown:

So here I am, the writeup should be up within an hour or so. :yes:

[Zim]

With the tournament coming to a close I better get the final changes for the save.

Could everyone pm me their preferred starting location so I can teleport their characters there?

First Council should start within a day or so.

[deguerra]

Sacre bleu! I fight off three bastards, dismount the winner of the tournament, and don't get an honourary mention? I've been robbed I tell you, robbed! Clearly, Felix is biased against me :clown:

Well done everyone, and a huge thanks to theFlax for organising all this!!! :2thumbsup:

[Andres]

Great job, TheFlax :2thumbsup:

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

Good job everyone, and great job keeping track of the Tourney TheFlax. I think I may end up missing most of the council session, as I am going to NYC, just to let everyone know.

[Ituralde]

Really a great job. Would love to do something like this again. Maybe I won't be the first to get captured then either...

[Rowan]

Really a great job. Would love to do something like this again. Maybe I won't be the first to get captured then either...

List of things to do (again) in KotF

Capture Ituraldes avatar
9 valor
Leader of house
Heroic Victory Battle Marker
Take part in tabletop battle
Win a tabletop battle


:laugh4:

Awesome tournament and big thanks for TheFlax!

[Ituralde]

List of things to do (again) in KotF

Capture Ituraldes avatar
9 valor
Leader of house
Heroic Victory Battle Marker
Take part in tabletop battle
Win a tabletop battle


:laugh4:

Awesome tournament and big thanks for TheFlax!

Awesome! Didn't even realize it. :laugh4:

[Zim]

I've never had much interest in those games so this may be a silly question, but how important is it to have a certain number of players?


As much as I hate to spam old friends, you guys HAVE to join Capo de Tutti Capi III. We need two more players and the waiting is driving me crazy. I promise it's an experience you'll never forget.

I'm working on the Council thread. It should be up tonight, and I'll try to get all the console work done within the next day or so. I figured the Council took some precedence since there's no need to make people wait on the rping while it I add traits and move people around. :clown:

[GeneralHankerchief]

The game has a certain amount of power roles and it needs 75 players in order for it to be properly balanced. Anything less results in one side having a greater chance to win than is necessary.

BTW, I know Flax is going to whop me for saying this, but there's no rush with the Council. I still have a thing or two I need to work on. :yes:

[TinCow]

I've never had much interest in those games so this may be a silly question, but how important is it to have a certain number of players?

It depends on the game. The more complex the game, the more 'roles' the host has to create beforehand. Play balance is important to keep the game interesting, since it's not much fun if one team or another is handicapped before it even starts. Thus, hosts generally try and figure out an 'ideal' number of players so that they can properly balance the number of 'roles' on each side. If a game gets too few or too many players, this can cause scaling problems if it's not easy to re-arrange the roles. Many hosts anticipate this problem in advance and have provisions for various setups based on different levels of participation.

The 'Capo' series is somewhat unique. It's far and away the largest mafia game that we run... double the size of what is normally considered a 'large' game. For Capo, I don't think play balance is too much of an issue since the host (Seamus) is extremely experienced at hosting these things. However, the game is great fun simply due to the unique nature of its massive size. In Capo, the more participants, the more fun it is.

[Zim]

Interesting. I only looked at the rules for a couple of those games. I had no idea so much thought went towards balance.

GH: I think TheFlax will rebel and post the COuncil thread himself if I don't get on it. :laugh4:

[TheFlax]

BTW, I know Flax is going to whop me for saying this, but there's no rush with the Council. I still have a thing or two I need to work on. :yes:

GH... :smash:

:clown:

[Zim]

Council thread is posted but no hurry. If people have problems I'll be happy to extend the deadline beyond Sunday, this being the first Council and all. :bow:

FAQ should be up within the day as well.

[Zim]

Gah! I put the Council thread in the "LOTR" category. :wall:

That's what I get for doing these things in the evening. :clown:

[OverKnight]

Can that be edited? Or should we we just lock it and start anew?

[Zim]

I can't change it, but I suspect TinCow will be able to. Since there's a post in it already I'll just ask him to, unless Iggy wants to agree to repost right now if I closed an reposted...

[Zim]

Posted the FAQ and rules thread. The FAQ section is likely to grow quite a bit over the course of the week...

[Zim]

Announcement: I just noticed some talk of what settlements to conquer, quite natural with the game starting. However, Econ21 has made a few changes for me, mostly giving each AI factions some more starting troops to make up for our giant horde of general's bodyguards. Here's the save post AI buff (although generals have not been moved to proper starting locations or gotten their tourney traits). I suspect it will help in planning on how many avatars and troops to send, etc.

As far as the tournament, how do people feel about participants getting the "Tourney Entrant" trait as stated? It fits well roleplaying, and gives a small award for participation. Do people think it's unfair to dread avatars (as they can reject the trait, but then get nothing)?

[AussieGiant]

Giving the option is fine Zim.

It's role playing. Everyone can't get everything all the time.

As for the save. I would recommend getting the final start position accurately in the save as soon as possible.

Discussion will heat up very quickly and it could all be for naught when people don't know the exact situation, or at least as exact as we can know. :beam:

[Zim]

I have a lot of console work to do, especially as someone who hasn't the foggiest idea how to teleport characters, although I think I can do the traits well enough. :clown:

Despite that I hope to finish within a day.

As far as enemy factions' positions and armies, that's the save. All I need to do now is move avatars around and do the trait work.

[AussieGiant]

I have a lot of console work to do, especially as someone who hasn't the foggiest idea how to teleport characters, although I think I can do the traits well enough. :clown:

Despite that I hope to finish within a day.

As far as enemy factions' positions and armies, that's the save. All I need to do now is move avatars around and do the trait work.


Thanks for the update Zim. happy consoling :2thumbsup:

[OverKnight]

econ21 has been at the game?! I have visions of triple gold death stacks descending upon us as France burns. I must find the nearest mountaintop to hold of the German hordes. :laugh4:

Time to reevaluate opening strategy.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Zim - One thing you should remember when you teleport avatars - Never teleport an avatar who is in a settlement! I know it's obvious but in WotB more than once I forgot to move them out from the settlement and they just disappeared after that. :wall:

[GeneralHankerchief]

Zim - One thing you should remember when you teleport avatars - Never teleport an avatar who is in a settlement! I know it's obvious but in WotB more than once I forgot to move them out from the settlement and they just disappeared after that. :wall:

That would be bad considering that every single avatar is in a settlement currently. :laugh4:

[GeneralHankerchief]

Wow, it didn't take long for us to have our first bar fight. I consider this an excellent sign.

[deguerra]

You must admit he's an annoying little twerp :clown:

[GeneralHankerchief]

Considering that Raynaud is probably closer in personality to Thiery, I admit nothing. :laugh4:

[Andres]

You must admit he's an annoying little twerp :clown:

Hey, he's everything I ever wanted to be!

[Zim]

Thanks for the heads-up. I likely wouldn't have noticed until I'd moved a few and went to check on them. :sweatdrop:


Zim - One thing you should remember when you teleport avatars - Never teleport an avatar who is in a settlement! I know it's obvious but in WotB more than once I forgot to move them out from the settlement and they just disappeared after that. :wall:

[AussieGiant]

I haven't seen the save OK.

Is it bad, or just grim?

[TinCow]

As far as the tournament, how do people feel about participants getting the "Tourney Entrant" trait as stated? It fits well roleplaying, and gives a small award for participation. Do people think it's unfair to dread avatars (as they can reject the trait, but then get nothing)?

I can't speak for others, but I would like the trait. I base my roleplaying on the actual trait names and descriptions, not the ranks of dread/chivalry.

[AussieGiant]

I also will accept the trait.

[econ21]

Ignoramus - knights can't run for Seneschal, I am afraid. That rule could be very restrictive, depending on how quickly we expand, but it probably is fitting for the first few terms at least.

[Ramses II CP]

I can't speak for others, but I would like the trait. I base my roleplaying on the actual trait names and descriptions, not the ranks of dread/chivalry.

Ditto that, I actually said essentially the same thing in a pm to Zim before I read this. :yes:

:egypt:

[OverKnight]

I haven't seen the save OK.

Is it bad, or just grim?

Nah, it's not Cataclysm bad. Our neighbors are probably stronger, but Metz looks the same.

BTW fog of war should be turned back on for the next save.

I can't believe econ spawned the Mongols so soon.


:wink:

Edit: Anyone else miss being Orthodox and not giving a fig about what the Pope thought, or having him within sword's reach? Ah "vetoing" Popes, that takes me back. :evilgrin:

[Ramses II CP]

Nah, it's not Cataclysm bad. Our neighbors are probably stronger, but Metz looks the same.

BTW fog of war should be turned back on for the next save.

I can't believe econ spawned the Mongols so soon.


:wink:

Edit: Anyone else miss being Orthodox and not giving a fig about what the Pope thought, or having him within sword's reach? Ah "vetoing" Popes, that takes me back. :evilgrin:

I have a strong feeling the Pope is going to get more than one 'veto' in this game too. I, for one, think that's the easy route. Maybe I'll make Louis a strict Catholic (in public) and not allow any whack-a-Pope quests during his reign?

Presuming he makes it to his reign anyway...
:egypt:

[Ituralde]

GH is playing a pious character?

Ahh... the memories... :evilgrin:

[Rowan]

I'm away for one, ONE day and the whole place explodes! Besides I was sightseeing a medieval castle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%A4me_Castle) (with some nice 18th century earthen additions for all the Empire players). I'll never have enough time to read all that... :book:

Two, the tournament feedback thread reminded me of a suggestion I've been wanting to make: George R. R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire series of books. Even though they are in a fantasy setting the books really concentrate on the inner politics and machinations of a medieval state. And, they've got proper medieval tourneys with huge melees. :knight:

[AussieGiant]

Bloody hell.

Talk about buffed...that's an understatement.

We're going to be cooling our heels nicely for awhile.

And can we turn off the fog of war please. It's like having an AWACS plane 1000 years before they were available.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-3_Sentry

[Marcus Agrippa]

Well I guess my avater is going to have to stay put and hope we're not attacked.
I can see someone using my guy as heavy cav and charging english armoured sergents (which england don't normaly get) and maybe getting him killed (not on purpose).

Well I guess it's heroic victories for us or heroic deaths.
What happens to the extra generals?

Also will the AI of sicily attack toulose because they've tryed in every other game I've played as the french?

[AussieGiant]

All extra generals will be killed off.

And just a point.

Who's going to post the Edicts thread and the Senschal voting thread?

[Zim]

A fog of war free save for everyone.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=199&id=4925

In LTC the English do indeed get armoured sergeants.

I wouldn't worry about those armies, I know a couple players here who could probably take them with a general and a peasant unit. :clown: Last game saw single generals going off to conquer settlements at the start and I was hoping it would be a little harder this time. Econ21 assured me he calculated AI armies specifically to make up a bit for our giant horde of generals. I suppose I could have just recruited 20 or so generals for every faction, though. Hmmm...

Extra generals will be killed off, and I will be posting the voting threads when the Council closes.

Also, happy Birthday TheFlax!

:balloon2: ~:cheers: :balloon2:

[econ21]

Last game saw single generals going off to conquer settlements at the start and I was hoping it would be a little harder this time.

Yes, rushing the AI will soon make the game unchallenging. Lusted recommends players fight only one AI faction in the first 50 turns, to give the AI a chance to build up and field good armies.


Econ21 assured me he calculated AI armies specifically to make up a bit for our giant horde of generals. I suppose I could have just recruited 20 or so generals for every faction, though.

For the information of the other players, I tried to give the AI troops of roughly the same purchase cost as our 20 or so RBGs, scaled somewhat so that smaller factions got less and larger ones got more. However, I figured just giving them knights might not be the best way to balance things, if this mod makes spearmen beat knights. So instead, I gave them a mix of units - usually knights, armoured spears and swords. The English in France got a little more, as they are cut off from easy reinforcement and tend to do daft things. Most are dispersed across settlements so don't expect to see any uber stacks immediately - just a leavening of the AI militia with the odd decent troop type.




PS: Zim, please can Hermant start in Paris? thanks

[Zim]

Econ: I was just joking about the twenty generals for every faction thing. :clown: That'd be horrible, bad for rp and likely resulting in quite a few early character deaths since a stack of them would be relatively forgiving to the poor battle AI. :laugh4:

Hermant=Paris. Got it. Console work starting tonight. :2thumbsup:

[Ituralde]

Paris for Simon de Montpierre as well.

[Marcus Agrippa]

Could you move me to Rheims if The king aproves the order marching east please.

[econ21]

Sorry to be a pain, but it sounds like Metz is going to be the first objective of the Order, so could I start in Reims instead of Paris? I think Ituralde may also want to start there now.


Hermant=Paris. Got it. Console work starting tonight. :2thumbsup:

[econ21]

I know a couple players here who could probably take them with a general and a peasant unit.

This idea prompts a number of thoughts which probably don't need saying, but I want to vent so here goes. It's not my place or anyone else's to tell other players how to fight battles, but here's how I see it.

Firstly, I think of these kind of games as historical role-playing. I personally don't find that convincing when it is done by exploiting the AI. Gamey tactics just drag me out of character. At both a strategic and a tactical level, it does not make much sense to talk of taking out a well defended settlement or large army with just a general and peasant unit. Personally, I enjoy reading of a hard fought battle, using plausible tactics, written up in a good AAR. Just being handed a post-battle savegame with no write up does not contribute much IMO.

Second, there should be absolutely no reloading of battles - as an honour thing, you get one chance at the battle and stick with that. When we put up tables of kill-loss ratios, I know there is an incentive to use your general - with his high HP and 2 HP regenerating escort - to rip apart the enemy, but that is going to come with a risk. I know I was guilty of those tactics in KotR but I paid dearly for it with losing Elberhard at quite the wrong time. I am going to a lot more cautious this time round. With Lusted's mod, the risks will be higher than in KotR.

Third, players fighting battles should be extremely careful of other player's avatars. With so many RBGs, it's inevitable we are going to have multi-general battles early on. I have a vested interest because my character is surely going to be one of those secondary generals. I think it's just subjective bias, but my impression is that a general dies much easier if they are the second, third etc in the stack - not the commanding general. I think actually they have the same HPs regardless, but I guess we are just less aware of them and so accidents happen. Bear in mind that people invest a lot in their characters and it hurts them personally to lose them. Of course, they are placing them at risk by stacking with you and IC your commanding general may be a rash SOB, but still I think OOC consideration should come into play regardless. Think of it as a hard tackle in a friendly game of football - whatever the in game motivation, it's best to try hard to avoid it. That means using concentration of force, breaking the enemy's morale, letting the RBGs get off good charges, pulling them out if they get bogged down, avoiding charging spears unless they are already engaged and you have their flank etc. If you are a rash SOB, risk your own avatar if you must but try to let your seconds escape the carnage. A few player defeats will do the game good anyway, so pulling a punch is not the end of the world.

[AussieGiant]

At the risk of sounding rude, and this is my opinion...

...I would like to follow up econ's post with a more straight forward statement.

Replaying battles or playing ahead with this particular save, or a save created to mirror our game is total :daisy: utter total :daisy:

Likewise exploits and other such tactical moves are further instances of :daisy: conduct.

If you want to take this type of action, then do it on your own time and in your own game. This one is being shared by 20 other people and it is totally inappropriate to ruin it by this type of conduct.

I certainly understand it is tempting, especially when there is a certain level of competition going on. The temptation comes from trying to succeed and be successful in front of peers and friends here on the board. That is perfectly understandable. However the potential damage is large and absolutely inconceivable when you calculate the time and effort being placed into this game by all the participants.

I hope everyone here plays the game straight up, if you take a risk and you pay the price, then I would sincerely hope everyone here rolls with the punches and does not call for a "rewind". Likewise other players will be more than likely to accept accidental death when they occur...and they will occur.

I will add a disclaimer that many players here are vets and will probably know exactly how the game behaves and what the starting moves are likely to be in this particular mod. My statements are not directed to this type of knowledge.

That's a bit of a rant, my apologies, but I take no words back. This is an indication of the passion I hold on the topic and the near zero tolerance I have on this issue. Please take this as context when reading.

[GeneralHankerchief]

AG, this is why I love you. ~:pat:

[Vladimir]

I don't care what anyone says. Killing 1,000 men with one balista is awesome! :laugh4:

[AussieGiant]

:embarassed:

thanks for the support GH

:2thumbsup:

[TinCow]

For the record, I would consider re-fighting a battle to try and get a better result to be a violation of the Throne Room Code of Conduct (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1892229&postcount=1).

[Vladimir]

A procedural question for the group: How specific to edicts need to be?

There is talk of making trade agreements with the AI factions but nothing formal is proposed in-game. When I play, I secure trade rights with the AI as a matter of course. There is nothing to loose from securing trade rights. Do we need to specifically state which factions we want to trade with or can we do it automatically with every faction?

[econ21]

A procedural question for the group: How specific to edicts need to be?

There is talk of making trade agreements with the AI factions but nothing formal is proposes in-game. When I play, I secure trade rights with the AI as a matter of course. There is nothing to loose from securing trade rights. Do we need to specifically state which factions we want to trade with or can we do it automatically with every faction?

The way I see it, edicts are to usually to constrain the Seneschal to do something (except that a few like declarations of war empower him). So generally I think they are things you would want to propose because you don't think a Seneschal will freely do it or because you are unsure he would. In such cases, you might want very specific legislation as the Seneschal may try to lawyer his way out of doing what you want to constrain him to do.

For example, with trade agreements, an unconstrained Seneschal might go to town with them and trade with everyone. Consequently, as you say, they might not be the kind of thing you would typically need to legislate on - as a normal Seneschal would make the agreements anyway. However, there still may be role-playing reasons to legislate. For example, an economically minded Councillor might want to be absolutely sure that the Seneschal does make agreements and propose an edict to that effect. Others with an enmity of a specific faction may oppose agreements with that faction etc.

[Vladimir]

Thank you.

The alliance with Scotland was kinda obvious but needed for in-game reasons. I wanted the diplomat to have visibility on the capital to help keep them in the game. Hopefully trade is an automatic thing but money must be spent on diplomats and etc.

[Zim]

Figures I miss a day and we get serious posts. :clown:

First, I did take note of changed avatar teleportation requests on the last posts. I am also saving the pms of requests sent to me. I've left them marked as unread to make them easier to find when I can sit down and do the teleportations. Just wanted to let people know in case they were checking their pm read receipts. :yes:

I'm sorry it's taking long. A combination of being busy, not being very experienced with console stuff, and just plain letting myself get distracted. I will be sitting down and getting as much console stuff done as possible tomorrow early afternoon. Hopefully if I don't run into any problems that will be enough time to finish it all. If not I'll just stay up late tomorrow night and do it... I'm sorry for any problems the delay may have caused. I'm still getting used to gming this type of game. :sweatdrop:

To Vladimir, Econ has it right. Edicts can be as specific or not as you want, and can be about almost anything. Generally they don't have to be Seneschal-proof so as to leave the Seneschal no options, unless you have terrible relations with one or all candidates. However, if a Seneschal claimed there were no extra forces to conquer province x as stipulated by edict such and such, consequences would be IC, he wouldn't get in trouble for breaking a rule (like he would if he broke one of the permanant rules), so there might be some situations where you'd want to word it to prevent weaseling out as such as possible.

Econ21 I agree that taking settlements that have ok garrisons with a single general's unit breaks rp (part of the reason I was ok with buffing starting AI stacks). to some extent it can't be helped, I think. I can't really stop people, but I hope it doesn't happen often. I suspect once we grow a bit anyone wanting to conquer territory will be able to get an army anyway, part of the reason I decentralized prioritized units a little. Hopefully that won't be too big a headache for wouldbe Seneschals. :sweatdrop:

I'd like to reiterate what you said about using other people's generals. Even if nothing else will convince someone, at least consider one could be making longterm enemies if generals that fight with them tend not to survive. Personally I don't think it will be too much of a problem (I was terrified of using generals I had command of, tended to risk and overuse my own instead...).

Reloading is definitely cheating.

AG Agreed. I'm not sure we'll see any problems, but it's good to bring these and the things Econ brought up early to get them out of the way. :yes:

[Ituralde]

Very good points from all of you. It's sometimes good to state the obvious at the start.

Maybe for those who weren't with us during KotR. There was a time where my lowly avatar, who thanks to M2s freak rules was heir to the throne, was fighting in the same stack as the Kaiser himself. The player of the Kaiser, Warluster asked me to do some battles for him since he didn't have the time. Under the KotR rules this kind of subbing was still allowed. There were three encounters with Danish forces. The first two were the hardest fought and I wasn't even sure whether I should take on the third stack. Then I saw that it was mainly artillery and my force was far superior. During the battle itself I charged with my own bodyguard towards the hill where the artillery lay while the main army made a slow approach. I tried to keep the Kaiser safe. That was until he turned into a ball of flame from one lucky catapult shot! Mere seconds(!!) before the enemy army routed!

You do not want to know how shocked I was, and how tempted to just reload that stupid last battle. I really was. Here I had just killed off the avatar entrusted to me by a fellow gamer, who was the Kaiser(!!) and I incidentally pushed my own avatar to the position of Kaiser! I'm pretty sure Warluster was a little mad at me. But I didn't reload.

And if you look back at the timeline of KotR and all the events that transpired after the battle above, it would have been a royal shame had I truly reloaded.

[_Tristan_]

Just to let you know : I will be away this week-end with almost inexistant internet access, so if this is not a bother, could the Council period be extended to Monday...

It would be a damn shame if the King didn't take part in deciding the Fate of his Kingdom...

[AussieGiant]

Yes well it's the third email like that I've written.

I should just save it somewhere and roll it out when necessary.

[Ituralde]

So on another topic entirely I will be gone the next three weeks! Happy camping through the Scottish Highlands! :2thumbsup:

I sent some votes to Zim in the hope that they will still be counted. I look forward to seeing your progress when I return.

Also sorry for the short notice, but I wanted to avoid meta-gaming and had also hoped to get the first Council Session over before I leave.

Have fun!

Ituralde

[_Tristan_]

One thing I noticed : shouldn't we have a status and orders thread (like we did in LotR) ?

[Ignoramus]

One of the main reasons I'm opposing buying Angers is that it seems rather gamey. What is 2-3,000 florins to us? Surely the diplomatic AI is too stupid to try this tactic. I remember in KotR when the Russians offered us money and threatened to attack us if we didn't accept.

[econ21]

One of the main reasons I'm opposing buying Angers is that it seems rather gamey. What is 2-3,000 florins to us?

Um, would they accept?[1] I never thought they would, but now that you put it like that I would not mind if the edict is voted down. I kind of gave up on M2TW diplomacy, as it seemed pretty unrewarding in vanilla at VH.


[1]That's a rhetorical question - I don't want people to play ahead.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I have finally purchased Kingdoms.
Now I have a lot bigger problem in my hands .. I need to find room for it in my PC :wall:

[_Tristan_]

Frankly, I don't think the English will accept selling us Angers or if they do it will cost us dearly (though I'm not sure because my M2TW days are far behind me now and I've not played LTC before)... Moreover, I see it as a way to enforce the "no-English bashing" policy that Philippe is trying to enforce...

What seems more gamey to me would be to allow some or all of our RBGs to rush English cities and castles and bring the downfall of England before the fist term is over (a result I'm sure we could collectively achieve)... Better to create a state of peace that will bring some more IC interaction in the next few seasons or in the next term.

Thta at least is my OOC point of view... back to IC

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Now, after I have checked all these Kingdoms campaigns I have a small request:

Could we mod those Greek Firethrowers(or mangonels) in for us? :clown:
I think I haven't laughed so much for awhile after I saw what 20 units of Firethrowers can do! :laugh4:

[Zim]

:wall::wall::wall::wall::wall::wall::wall:

Set down to move people around to their preferred starting settlements, and according to the console 90% of them don't exist, at least under the names on their unit cards. :wall:

I can give traits since I can click on the characters and type in "this" instead of their name, but that doesn't work for the teleport command.

Even if we decided to just let characters hoof it to starting locations, this makes killing off the extras a problem. At least there's a crossing in LTC across the Channel, so I could kill them within a few turns by manually moving them...

I'll need to discuss things with Tristan to see how he added the more authentic names. Maybe the internal names are different from the ones we see.

In the meantime the Council is extended one day as I've received a request to push it back a little. Future Councils will be shorter but I wanted to be generous timewise with our first one. :bow:

[ULC]

if you are having an issue with the vast majority of the "de andthisandthat's" it is because you would type it out "FirstName de_ThisandThat". Tristan put them in very well, so that should be your only issue.

[Zim]

I'll give it a try tonight. some of the names the console couldn't find didn't have any "de"s or "la"s, but most did.

[ULC]

Which ones? If you give me a list, I can figure out which names are "special" and give the correct way to teleport them. Alas, such is free time :laugh4:

[Zim]

Well, so far Yvon Laze and one of the unchosen generals could be teleported. The other people who requested being moved were either already at the settlement they wanted, or couldn't be.

I should be able to figure them out now that I know of the invisible "_"s.

For future reference, when someone becomes a Prince, gains a nickname, etc. and their unit card name changes, does the name the console recognizes also change?

[ULC]

Well, so far Yvon Laze and one of the unchosen generals could be teleported. The other people who requested being moved were either already at the settlement they wanted, or couldn't be.

I should be able to figure them out now that I know of the invisible "_"s.

For future reference, when someone becomes a Prince, gains a nickname, etc. and their unit card name changes, does the name the console recognizes also change?

No, not at all. Prince, King, etc, are titles, they are not actually the name.

[Zim]

So Prince Louis would not be recognized as such in a console command, even though that's how his name appears to the player?

[ULC]

So Prince Louis would not be recognized as such in a console command, even though that's how his name appears to the player?

Correct - His name would be "Louis", since he has not been assigned a last name - nor has anyone in the Royal Family.

[OverKnight]

It's been a long time, but I helped TC assemble names for teleportation for the Cataclysm. The console is very picky. It will only accept a character's originial name, it won't accept titles such as Prince or "the Merciless" etc.

I had to go back in the saves and hunt down originial names for a few players and enemy generals. Nikiforos the Mean couldn't be transported for example, but Nikiforos Argyrus, his originial name, could.

I'm sure the info can be found and that there is a trick to transporting one name, royalty, characters. I'll search around if I have some free time at work tonight.

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

ugghhhhh, may sit out of this council. Just back from New York, and I need to get ready for another trip. I am still around and will be back in a week however.

[The Lemongate]

ugghhhhh, may sit out of this council. Just back from New York, and I need to get ready for another trip. I am still around and will be back in a week however.

Dont worry Cultured, you're not the only one with very little time on his hands at the moment. Spending more then 2 minutes at the computer is just time I don't have these days!

[Ramses II CP]

Yes, you have my sympathy. I'm glad I got some dedicated time to type a bit tonight, can't let you lot of rabble start thinking you run things. :clown:

:egypt:

[OverKnight]

I forget, Ramses, which Louis are you playing? Would it be Louis XVI? :wiseguy:

Edit: Or will you be bellowing, "I am the State!" at some point?

[Ramses II CP]

I have no comment at this time. :laugh4:

...but don't call him fat. :furious3:

:egypt:

[OverKnight]

...but don't call him fat. :furious3:

:egypt:

He's not fat, he's big-boned![/cartman]

[Ignoramus]

Fat!

:clown:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Could someone please tell me why Marseille belongs to HRE in Lands to Conquer? :inquisitive:

[The Lemongate]

Wikipedia says this: A war between Rudolph III of Burgundy and his rival, the German Emperor Conrad the Salic in 1032 led to Provence becoming a fiefdom of the Holy Roman Empire, which it remained until 1246.


In fact, before Philippe Auguste II de France, there is no such thing as France, both as a concept or as a political entity. The Kingdom of the Franks is a powerful feudal entity whose power-base is mainly in the north and whose influence waxes and wanes depending on the strength of its ruler, much like the Holy Roman Empire, albeit with a different form of political structure.

[Cecil XIX]

Another, related reason might be that it was like that in the first Medieval: Total War, as well. I miss you Aragon.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Wow.. I didn't know that! :dizzy2:

[Zim]

Did this cause any further bugs or problems? Might be an easier way to kill off unwanted generals. I've found them tricky when drowning, sometimes they stop on the green line like they should drown, then step off onto land. Like they don't want to die or something. :clown:


Zim - One thing you should remember when you teleport avatars - Never teleport an avatar who is in a settlement! I know it's obvious but in WotB more than once I forgot to move them out from the settlement and they just disappeared after that. :wall:

[ULC]

Did this cause any further bugs or problems? Might be an easier way to kill off unwanted generals. I've found them tricky when drowning, sometimes they stop on the green line like they should drown, then step off onto land. Like they don't want to die or something. :clown:

I blame it on incompetent scuba gear testers - lower them into the water you fools, no matter how they squirm! The King demands that he have proper diving gear, no matter the cost!

[OverKnight]

In fact, before Philippe Auguste II de France, there is no such thing as France, both as a concept or as a political entity. The Kingdom of the Franks is a powerful feudal entity whose power-base is mainly in the north and whose influence waxes and wanes depending on the strength of its ruler, much like the Holy Roman Empire, albeit with a different form of political structure.

Having played EU III recently, France is a patchwork of Duchies and Kingdoms at game start. And that's 1399.

But I'm willing to embrace anachronisms to make KotF fun.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Did this cause any further bugs or problems? Might be an easier way to kill off unwanted generals. I've found them tricky when drowning, sometimes they stop on the green line like they should drown, then step off onto land. Like they don't want to die or something.

Bugs that may happen when teleporting a character from inside the city:
a) Character disappears on campaign map. You can move him(and his army) but you can't see them.
b) If teleported character governed the city from he was teleported there is a chance the game thinks that the character is still in that town.
Example: Henri is in Paris. You teleport him from Paris to a location near Toulouse. The game however still thinks that Henri is in Paris. You make Henri govern Toulouse. Henri gets traits and ancillaries from both Paris and Toulouse.

I'm sure there were one or two more but can't remember them at the moment. :shame:

About crossing straits.. You should first move all your unwanted generals into one stack. It's much easier to get rid off them if they are together. The best way to make sure they are on top of the green arrow is to zoom in and then you just have to be quick and press backspace.

I didn't had this green arrow optin in WotB and I had to send my unwanted generals to fight against those EB Rebel super-generals in Central-Europe.

[Zim]

Ok, I'll try zooming out this time.

We have progress. All Tourney Entrant traits have been awarded and everyone teleported. I need to give out the main prizes and kill the generals off, and I'll be done.

[AussieGiant]

Good god.

Cecil, can you please clear your inbox!!?? :beam:

I'm so happy I could say that just once and not to Iggy. :laugh4:

[Ignoramus]

Well, we can make it a Burgundian tradition.

[AussieGiant]

That would be most frustrating Iggy.

Can't you get on the horn down there and get him on the PC?

[Zim]

SOT thread posted. Thanks to the poster here who reminded me. :bow:

[Ramses II CP]

Fat!

:clown:

Troublemaker!

Hope you don't feel picked on, Louis has just been waiting for someone to slip up and give him a chance to go on the offensive. He almost unleashed on Bertin, but you drew more attention. :laugh4:

:egypt:

[Ignoramus]

Don't worry, there was a reasons why I chose Burgundy...

[Ramses II CP]

Oh, and I should add that I don't believe the English will sell us Anger either, but I've resisted the temptation to go and try it. In Vanilla there were a number of first turn exploits that allowed players to buy provinces cheaply from the AI, especially castles via the 100 florins for X turns, then cancel the next turn bit, but I feel confident Lusted closed those holes.

:egypt:

[econ21]

A heads-up to the Dukes about to post their building priorities - in vanilla, I believe there was a high chance of getting bad economic traits if a settlement was without a grain exchange (1 in 3 per turn or something like that). I suspect it is still the same in LTC. We'll probably see a number of RBGs etc stationary in settlements in the early stages of the game, so it might be an idea to build the grain exchanges quickly to avoid making them bad taxmen etc.

PS: Ignoramus, I wonder if have you installed Kingdoms and the mod yet? Aside from dafug3 who is AWOL, I think you are the only one who has not ticked off the poll ready-check.

[Ignoramus]

Econ: I was going to do it last week, but then my download ran out and it's going really slowly until tomorrow, when it starts another month. Sorry about that, but as I'm unlikely to be fighting a battle in the first turn or so, I should have everything installed before I'm required to access the save.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Can we get an ETA on the Conseil's closing? Things seem to be winding down.

[Zim]

Tomorrow at midnight PST. Tristan requested an extra day since he was out for the weekend. I think he wants to make a speech or something. :clown:

[Zim]

Done with the save. Extraneous generals are dead, tourney prizes and entrant traits have been given, and generals and the Princess have been teleported. Our illustrious Princess has also had some traits played around with, but with no increase or decrease in charm.

[Vladimir]

Upon reading through the rules again I'm a little unclear on how funding is allocated. How does each house secure permission for construction and to raise troops?

Am I just too tired and missing something?

[AussieGiant]

In the Status and Orders thread every noble owning a province sets a build queue and those that can prioritise troop recruitment can also state what they want.

It's then up to the Seneschal to determine what is going to happen.

The position does come with some responsibility and power. :balloon2:

[Vladimir]

Thanks. I'm really glad we're not doing Stainless Steel.

[Zim]

Sorry, I had meant to post this before. It's the (nearly) final save. I did get one more movement request I'll have to fulfill, but otherwise this should be it. Feel free to check it out to make sure I didn't mess up any movement requests or anything.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=199&id=4928

[KnightnDay]

Who is playing Quentin de Melun in Rheims? Is that an RGB that didn't get killed off?

[OverKnight]

Who is playing Quentin de Melun in Rheims? Is that an RGB that didn't get killed off?

The name is unfamiliar.

He survived drowning. . .he must be a witch! Burn him!

[ULC]

The name is unfamiliar.

He survived drowning. . .he must be a witch! Burn him!

Mi Lord, I believe that is a Wizard - Witches are women.

[Cecil XIX]

Mi Lord, I believe that is a Wizard - Witches are women.

Actually, the male equivalent of a witch is a warlock. We can only hope he is not, God forbid, a witchalok (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2009/1/21/).

[KnightnDay]

"Well he turned me into a newt!"

"A newt?"

"I got better..."

[Zim]

Legislation and Election polls posted. They close in roughly 48 hours. The Council is now closed for the session. Posts can still be made but no new legislation or Seneschal candidacies can be put forward.

[OverKnight]

Cecil, could you please clear some PM space?

How am I suppose to continue our discussion about puppies and sunshine?

[OverKnight]

@ Zim and YLC

Gaetan de Rethel, in the latest save, is in Toulouse. The other members of Lorraine seem to be in the correct place.

[Zim]

Thanks for letting me know. I'm working on a final save. Killed off the Witchalock and moved one other person per their request. I'll move Gaetan as well.

[_Tristan_]

Remember to reset character moves as well or some people will only see the outside walls of their own cities and not much else

[Zim]

Already done. Although they only lose two tiles (one out of current city, one into new one after being moved right next door). :clown:

[Ignoramus]

I love how all the chivalrous members have avoided the Tavern. It seems to have indeed received a bad reputation.

[Andres]

I love how all the chivalrous members have avoided the Tavern. It seems to have indeed received a bad reputation.

***whistles innocently***

[OverKnight]

It is a hive of scum and villainy.

Edit: That's why I like it.

[Vladimir]

KoTF = :turtle:

[_Tristan_]

My fault partly,...

[Vladimir]

No problem, just passing the time ~;)

[AussieGiant]

Hi Zim,

Just a thought for you and the rest.

Having the option in the Seneschal vote as "I abstain" seems a little strange, especially considering how many people have made that selection.

Perhaps it might be better to remove it in future.

[Zim]

It's mostly so I can keep of the number of people who have voted or definitely plan not to. I suppose I can stick solely to the the legislation poll (with its abstain choice) nextime for purposes of considering activity.

How is it strange ion comparison to abstaining from voting for legislation? Without it I assume those people just wouldn't vote in that poll

[TinCow]

The abstain option is important for measuring 'activity'. Without an abstain vote, we wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a person who was active, but didn't want to pick, and a person who is AWOL. Since there are consequences in the rules for missing votes, it is necessary to make this distinction.

[AussieGiant]

The abstain option is important for measuring 'activity'. Without an abstain vote, we wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a person who was active, but didn't want to pick, and a person who is AWOL. Since there are consequences in the rules for missing votes, it is necessary to make this distinction.

Ah, understood.

It just seems a little strange to see everyone taking a position in the legislation voting but sitting on the fence in the Seneschal vote.

I really don't want to see 10 abstains and then 4 and 6 votes for the loser and winner...that ridiculous.

[Zim]

Living in America, that seems about right to me for a major election. :clown:


Ah, understood.

It just seems a little strange to see everyone taking a position in the legislation voting but sitting on the fence in the Seneschal vote.

I really don't want to see 10 abstains and then 4 and 6 votes for the loser and winner...that ridiculous.

[Cecil XIX]

There's an OOC charter amendment that I forgot to bring up during the Council session, but would like to discuss now.

I believe that in Lands to Conqueor, as in vanilla M2:TW, the AI never switches Castles to Cities or vice-versa. I believe it would be a good idea to disallow this practice on our end as well. It's kinda gamey, even if the AI did do it, and Lord know we don't need any more advantages.

[phonicsmonkey]

hello fellows,

Apologies for surfacing from my lurking, but I happened to catch one episode of a five part miniseries on Australian tv channel SBS last night that you all might be interested in if you haven't already seen it.

It's a French drama called (in English) 'The Accursed Kings', and stars several of the Depardieu family.

I found it very entertaining and reasonably historical, so you all might find it a fun thing to get hold of in order to research your characters and the period you're RPing.

[Vladimir]

Drop by any time. :2thumbsup:

[The Lemongate]

Les Rois Maudits. Good books. I hope the tv adaptation didn't screw it up too much.

[phonicsmonkey]

Les Rois Maudits. Good books. I hope the tv adaptation didn't screw it up too much.

I haven't read the books although I'm aware of them - the TV series seemed great, the one I saw last night was 'The She-Wolf of France', about the struggle for power after the death of Louis X.

I can't really judge the acting, not being a native French speaker, but the whole tone of it was really soap opera-esque (a great thing in my opinion) and had me gripped on the edge of my seat.

O the perfidy!

Unfortunately I did an interweb search after posting and it looks like it's nigh-on impossible to find an English-subtitled DVD version, so this recommendation may be for Frenchies only, and for Aussies who can catch it next week on SBS.

[_Tristan_]

I mentioned the series while we were looking for a name for the game (I proposed Curse of the French Kings, at the time).

The books ans series are really great. A lot of sneaky plotting, poisoning, and lowly vengeance...

Plus the design of the sets and costume was done by French graphist Phillipe Druillet which gives it a gothic surrealist feel.

Here are some examples of his drawings one (http://www.druillet.com/fonds/images/fond1_800.jpg) and two (http://www.druillet.com/fonds/images/fond2_800.jpg).

And a link (http://les-rois-maudits.france2.fr/) to the official French (sorry...) TV series site.

[AussieGiant]

Living in America, that seems about right to me for a major election. :clown:

That's kind of what I would like to avoid actually. :thumbsdown:

[Zim]

Eh, I just put "abstain" as a choice so people could prove activity without being forced to make a choice. There could also be political ramifications for choosing to abstain (someone who abstains may be making a statement about the candidates. At the very least they can't say they just forgot or didn't get a chance to vote, so they could earn the ire of a candidate that thought they were a supporter).

I'm not going to force people to vote, although if anyone really wants to do so I'd accept an amendment doing so (it would have to have IC consequences, though, and I'd have to find another way to prove activity for those who prefer not to vote).


That's kind of what I would like to avoid actually. :thumbsdown:

[AussieGiant]

Ok lets leave it as it is. :egypt:

[econ21]

There's an OOC charter amendment that I forgot to bring up during the Council session, but would like to discuss now.

I believe that in Lands to Conqueor, as in vanilla M2:TW, the AI never switches Castles to Cities or vice-versa. I believe it would be a good idea to disallow this practice on our end as well. It's kinda gamey, even if the AI did do it, and Lord know we don't need any more advantages.

I think that would be a good idea, particularly given our PvP recruitment rules (which potentially give an incentive to switch to castles to get certain troops).

[_Tristan_]

I concur...

Though I think this amendment can wait until the next council session.

It's not like we have the funds to make those changes now.

[AussieGiant]

Yeah, there's no chance in the next 10 seasons.

Let's make sure we table it in Council 2.

[OverKnight]

And away we go!

It's good to be back in the saddle, so to speak.

[AussieGiant]

Yes and I wish I would have known Zim was going to post it up like some type of play thing. :inquisitive:

[GeneralHankerchief]

Normally, I'm not a fan of Aerosmith (more of a progressive rock guy), but in this case I think this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sbv6oeY8PTc) is warranted. :yes:

[Vladimir]

This (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-f1cwycSWq0&feature=related)is more to my liking.

[GeneralHankerchief]

This (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-f1cwycSWq0&feature=related)is more to my liking.

:2thumbsup:

[AussieGiant]

This (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-f1cwycSWq0&feature=related)is more to my liking.

One of the greatest Australian bands of all time!! :2thumbsup:

[Vladimir]

One of the greatest Australian bands of all time!! :2thumbsup:

Indeed.

[Ramses II CP]

Two good choices, but I'm thinking of something a little more modern, and (if I dare say so) a little more 'French.' I don't think I should post a link to it, but given the time I'm going to spend on this game in the coming weeks and the behavior in the tavern lately the first thing that came to my mind was Smack my ***** Up from Prodigy.

Go look it up yourself, unless you're at work. It's really Not Safe For Work. You were warned.

:egypt:

[_Tristan_]

I concur.... One of my favourite titles...

[AussieGiant]

I firmly believe I would last 7 minutes in a US working office.

If you can not play a commercially available song at work then as I said before.

The US legal system is getting a little out of hand.

:egypt:

[woad&fangs]

Perhaps I'm just being dense, but Vista claims there is no saves folder for M2:TW:inquisitive:

[OverKnight]

This might help:

http://shoguntotalwar.yuku.com/topic/45449/t/Medieval-II-Gold-Edition-save-game-folder.html

Vista is evil.

[Vladimir]

I had to create a "Saves" folder for LTC.

[woad&fangs]

This might help:

http://shoguntotalwar.yuku.com/topic/45449/t/Medieval-II-Gold-Edition-save-game-folder.html

Vista is evil.

Found it. Thanks for the help. :2thumbsup:

[Zim]

To be honest it never occurred that save #1 would need a Seneschal's report. Sorry for any trouble caused. :sweatdrop:


Yes and I wish I would have known Zim was going to post it up like some type of play thing. :inquisitive:

[Ramses II CP]

I firmly believe I would last 7 minutes in a US working office.

If you can not play a commercially available song at work then as I said before.

The US legal system is getting a little out of hand.

:egypt:

Find the video on YouTube and tell me your boss would be cool with it... and I'll come work with you! :yes:

:egypt:

[TinCow]

I firmly believe I would last 7 minutes in a US working office.

If you can not play a commercially available song at work then as I said before.

The US legal system is getting a little out of hand.

:egypt:

I think it all depends on the office. As a federal employee, I have to be particularly careful about that kind of stuff. However, I've shared an office with the same people for several years and we all know each other very well. We make plenty of comments on any average day that I would never repeat to any other work colleague.

[_Tristan_]

I'm sure I've played worse at my job... but it is sometimes part of the job :yes:

[Zim]

I understand from a post in the Seneschal's thread that remaining movement is still messed up, particularly for two avatars. I'm not sure what's going on, but if it affects any player's need to move their avatar this turn pm me and I'll reset their movement again and move the character myself before saving. :bow:

[Vladimir]

How are we handling income producing structures? Why should I build a market for my settlement when it doesn't benefit me directly?

[KnightnDay]

How are we handling income producing structures? Why should I build a market for my settlement when it doesn't benefit me directly?

Because if you don't, members of the order of the Fleur de Lys will come down and break both your kneecaps. :clown:

[Vladimir]

~;)

But really, there is no incentive to build a structure that benefits the kingdom and not a settlement.

[econ21]

But really, there is no incentive to build a structure that benefits the kingdom and not a settlement.

We tried to decentralise budgets in some earlier games, but it is more work than it is worth IMO. The cost is high - the game is just not set up to provide the required information easily and the book-keeping requirement is formidable. And the benefit is modest - I suspect most players are more interested in the armies and battles, rather than the settlement management side of the game - we'd be playing Civ4 or something if it were the other way round.

To answer your question within the current rules, you are role-playing a French general/noble. What your character cares about is up to you. If you are role-playing a person who doesn't care about the Kingdom's well-being, then you may have a problem seeing the point of building a structure that only benefits the kingdom. If you are role-playing more of a team player, you may not. More money for the Kingdom means more troops and captured settlements, some of which may spillover to you. Bear in mind that the initial allocation of captured settlements is the King's perogative (and then the Duke's), so they may be less likely to give it to a player who is of the former type. And the Seneschal may not build anything in your settlement if he disapproves of your build queue. But even if you are role-playing a noble who cares only for his settlement, then building markets and civic buildings may be very in character for such a chap. Cecil, I think, acted in this kind of way as Count of Prague in KotR. Yes, the buildings may not benefit you directly, but they can be sort of "glorious achievement" you might set yourself.

BTW, do bear in mind my earlier point about grain exchanges and their absence giving bad vices. The effect of buildings on vices and virtues may provide other role-playing incentives for prioritising certain buildings. Personally a market would not be high on my build queue if I had a settlement, but a grain exchange would be to avoid bad traits. But prioritising a market would be a good way of signalling a certain type of character. And if I were a Seneschal, I would be very inclined to authorise such economic builds in most cities as recruitment is often most efficiently done in a few very developed settlements.

[Vladimir]

Thank you.

I'm aware of the earlier attempt to give each city a budget and it seemed like a pain in the butt. It's a pity the economics in this game make it so.

Those are the questions I had when I opened up the save. I had to think about what I would do from a faction perspective vs. a settlement perspective. My concern is that our faction's economy will be woefully underdeveloped taking a lot of fun out of the game.

[AussieGiant]

Just to be clear Vladimir, your Duke, and/or land owning noble when they are handed out, does not queue up buildings. That's a Senechal job.


Find the video on YouTube and tell me your boss would be cool with it... and I'll come work with you!

I'm the boss Ramses so you can come and work for me. :egypt:

Thanks TC, good to know there is still some life in the work place over there. I'm concerned its been sucked out for fear of legal action.

[Vladimir]

Just to be clear Vladimir, your Duke, and/or land owning noble when they are handed out, does not queue up buildings. That's a Senechal job.


Sorry, that's not true.

Duke:
Requirements: Must be one of the beginning Dukes as per Rule 2 (a), have become Duke as per the will of a deceased Duke as per Rule 3 (d), have been given the title by a resigning duke, have attained the title of Duke by Rule 2 (c) or gained the title as part of a peace agreement at the end of a Civil War.
Influence: 1 + 1 for every Count in his House.
Powers:
(1) Can propose three Edicts or Amendments per Council Session.
(2) Can set the build queue and tax rate for their settlement and all unallocated settlements under their control. Can destroy any building in their settlement and all unallocated settlements under their control. Can rename any settlement under their control at any time.
(3) Can call Emergency Council Sessions if another Duke seconds the call.
(4) May at any time rename their House.
(5) Cannot be banned from a Council Session.
(6) If this rank is held during a Normal Council Session, can Prioritize a total of 3 units per full 10 turn Chancellor term.
(7) Can voluntarily resign and pass on their title to any land owning Noble of their choosing.
Penalties:
(1) Cannot hold any other rank except those of Chancellor and Prince.

Anyone who controls a settlement can do so.

[_Tristan_]

I think AG meant that you can't queue them up ingame... You can only request that they be so...

[Vladimir]

Sorry, but unless you're reading another rules thread that also isn't true.

[Rowan]

Sorry, but unless you're reading another rules thread that also isn't true.

As it's currently written it is ambiguous but what it means (at least based on the previous two games, KotR and LotR) is that you can set what you want built and in what order in your settlement in the Status and Orders thread and the chancellor/seneschal will ultimately pick what to build in game.

Check the Chancellor/seneschal rank powers in the rules:



(2) The Chancellor is repsonsible for all monetary expenditures in the game. The choice of what to build/recruit is entirely up to him, except as stated in the Limitations on Powers.
...
Limitations on powers:
(1) The Chancellor must respect all settlement tax rates and build queues. The Chancellor is not required to build anything, but if he does build in a settlement, it must be the first item in the build queue. If no build queue is posted for a settlement, the Chancellor may build whatever he wishes.


I'm asking you to just accept this, most you will get is a rewrite of the rules clearing the ambiguity. :yes:


EDIT: There's also section 1(d), which reads:


...
After the annual report is posted, players will have at least 24 hours to download the save, and make their personal moves. Players can move their avatars, move any unit or fleet their avatar owns, and fight any battles against the AI that they are capable of fighting with their avatar’s army. Player may also move any unit, fleet, or avatar they have been given specific permission to move by the respective owner, as long as that permission is posted in a public thread.


It specifically doesn't mention setting the build queue in-game.

[Vladimir]

I read them and a rewrite would help. Those are the rules I'm going to base my actions on.

[Zim]

Tristan and Rowan are right. The build queue you set in the SOT thread is for the Seneschal, it's not something you queue up in your settlement in-game. He doesn't have to build something in any given settlement, but if he does he has to follow the build queue posted by the owner of the settlement (if there is one, otherwise he can pick any building). Control over where money goes is by far and away the strongest power the position has.

Prioritized units are a limited exception to the Seneschal's total powers over the country's purse strings, in that he would be required to fill such orders before getting to allocate any other money at all to buildings or other recruitment. There used to be a very small number of prioritized buildings at higher ranks as well in the previous game, but this power was little used (anyone is free to try to reinstate that on at a Council, though. Getting the votes to pass would convince me it's popular enough to make it back in).

I suppose those of us who have been in this for multiple games have just become used to the wording.

And to answer an earlier question, refusing to allocate any money to a player's build queue is one way a Seneschal could "encourage" someone to permit the building of that trading port or market rather than those ballista towers or whatever other military building they want.

[Vladimir]

Reviewing the status and orders thread confirms my fears. We have settlements building a grain exchange first and roads fourth or even eighth! Trade moves along roads in this game. The purpose of settlements is to produce income for the faction. We'll have a new Senechal before we even have roads, not to mention markets and sea trade.

Is this how it worked in previous games? How was the faction funded?

France is woefully underdeveloped in this game.

[Ramses II CP]

Reviewing the status and orders thread confirms my fears. We have settlements building a grain exchange first and roads fourth or even eighth! Trade moves along roads in this game. The purpose of settlements is to produce income for the faction. We'll have a new Senechal before we even have roads, not to mention markets and sea trade.

Is this how it worked in previous games? How was the faction funded?

France is woefully underdeveloped in this game.

The King's edict has to be kept in mind as well; it requires structures to be built before recruitment takes place. That's why I left my build order as it is, I wanted to free AG's hand to put things in the correct order within the structure of the King's edict. I hope that's clear in the way I wrote it out. :laugh4:

In previous games if the Seneschal didn't like your build order he didn't build anything. If people get too annoyed about it they can try to introduce an Edict to force the settlement owner's hand, but the realistic truth is that we don't have one hand guiding our nation, we have many. That makes for a disorganized game of MTWII, but a very interesting game of politics and negotiation. :2thumbsup:

:egypt:

[Zim]

My guess? A combination of Econ's revelation that not having a grain exchange can cause negative traits for governors and the first part of Edict 1.1 (which won with 100% of the vote, including yours. ~;) ).

Edict 1.1: No recruitment of any kind will be allowed in towns or castles that do not have at least a small church or chapel and either farms (OOC : lvl 1) or a grain exchange.

Do first level roads affect trade? They never show a projected increase in trade when I queue them. and in LTC ports don't produce trade until the second tier (I found that one out recently on the LTC forum).

Unless we're already showing a large deficit for turn two I wouldn't worry. Money has tended not to be a problem in these games, and after the first couple terms we always seem to be stinking rich. At the end of last game while I had the Seneschal equivalent position I even purposefully ran our economy into the ground with a huge debt to help support a rebellion, and we could have come out of it within a few turns.

I also suspect if our economy showed any weakness many of the players who were pushing for slower expansion would suddenly be in favor of war against England or some other neighbor...

[Vladimir]

While I've always been stinking rich in LTC it's always been a result of having control of an entire faction and a fiscal growth policy. I do so love playing Venice. :2thumbsup: France is another story. My heart fell a little when I realized how poorly developed it is.

[econ21]

Reviewing the status and orders thread confirms my fears. We have settlements building a grain exchange first and roads fourth or even eighth! Trade moves along roads in this game. The purpose of settlements is to produce income for the faction. We'll have a new Senechal before we even have roads, not to mention markets and sea trade.

...

France is woefully underdeveloped in this game.

I know you may have rules queries, but this kind of concern is exactly the sort of thing that we should debate in character rather than out of character. Take it up in Council and/or with your Duke etc. The more genuine political debate we can generate the better. We're often trying to manufacture conflicts, but if you think something really hurts the kingdom, raise a stink over it.

[Vladimir]

OK. My impression was that the initial game rules were an OOC thing and that no more edicts can be proposed until the next council session. My IC concerns will develop over the next couple turns and are influenced by my character's fiscal traits.

[AussieGiant]

Yes I'd be more than happy to have someone challenge the position in character.

Then you can really get a feel for the obvious, and not so obvious leverage options available in the game.

:whip:

[Ramses II CP]

My guess? A combination of Econ's revelation that not having a grain exchange can cause negative traits for governors and the first part of Edict 1.1 (which won with 100% of the vote, including yours. ~;) ).

Edict 1.1: No recruitment of any kind will be allowed in towns or castles that do not have at least a small church or chapel and either farms (OOC : lvl 1) or a grain exchange.

Do first level roads affect trade? They never show a projected increase in trade when I queue them. and in LTC ports don't produce trade until the second tier (I found that one out recently on the LTC forum).

Unless we're already showing a large deficit for turn two I wouldn't worry. Money has tended not to be a problem in these games, and after the first couple terms we always seem to be stinking rich. At the end of last game while I had the Seneschal equivalent position I even purposefully ran our economy into the ground with a huge debt to help support a rebellion, and we could have come out of it within a few turns.

I also suspect if our economy showed any weakness many of the players who were pushing for slower expansion would suddenly be in favor of war against England or some other neighbor...

Roads, FYI, make a huge difference in trade income. They do more in Broken Crescent, but it's a lot in vanilla and I presume in LTC as well. Those prediction screens are unreliable in the extreme.

:egypt:

[Ramses II CP]

BTW crackin' good story between YLC and Tristan to explain IC what could've been left an OOC slip-up. I'm really fond of the way we're kicking things off here. :2thumbsup:

:egypt:

[Ignoramus]

Did YLC redo his move? Because if so, I would consider that not in the spirit of the game.

[Ramses II CP]

No, he merely lifted the siege while still sitting next to the city.

:egypt:

[Cecil XIX]

It's funny, that button is only useful when you want to lift a siege without moving your army. When does that situation pop up?

[Zim]

In this case I guess, since he'd have to wait until next turn to end the siege afterwards.

Maybe if you don't mind waiting forever to starve a settlement out, you can lift the siege when you get to the last turn before they would sally, then resiege the same turn to begin the countdown again.

Maybe someone can come up with other situations?

[Ramses II CP]

Actually you can move on subsequent turns when you lift a siege. There have been no few times when I put a siege in place just to stop the AI recruiting while I moved in enough spies, then lifted it the next turn to use spies to open the gates. Makes for a lot fewer casualties than going forward with ladders and rams.

:egypt:

[AussieGiant]

Can any French speakers give me the names for "The Office of the Exchequer" and "The War Office"?

That would be great.

I also need a file sharing site. Mizus seems to be a bit different from the last time I was there.

[_Tristan_]

The Office of the Exchequer would be "Le Trésor Royal" and the "War Office" would be "le Ministère de la Guerre"

[AussieGiant]

Thanks Tristan.

[Ramses II CP]

I use mediafire for filesharing:

http://www.mediafire.com/

Rapidshare is also good, but they have a waiting period for free users that (IMHO) is just a bit more annoying than the ads at MF.

http://www.rapidshare.com/

:egypt:

[AussieGiant]

I want to use the one off this board.

How the hell can I get the link for it? It's up by it's the most ridiculous uploader I've ever come across.

Can someone please help.

[_Tristan_]

Follow this link (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?catid=199)

Click add entry

Enter the name of your savegame

Go to the section below and browse the file on your computer (.zip or .rar it first) then click submit.

Only thing you have to do then is copy the link from your uploaded file here.

[AussieGiant]

Got it Tristan thanks.

Save is up. It a little difficult doing this the first time after a year. :sweatdrop:

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

Ok back for good, and taking the save in a bit to see things out.

[OverKnight]

Zim, when you have a spare moment, could you start a battle reports thread?

[AussieGiant]

I'm going to take the save back and finish season 2, any issues with this?

[Ramses II CP]

Rock on. :2thumbsup:

:egypt:

[AussieGiant]

Sorry fellas, Cecil just noticed an unintentional rule violation by me regarding troop transport via ships. i've PM'ed Zim for a ruling as the save is too far gone in many ways.

Sorry for the delay. As soon as I have a response from Zim we will get back to normal playing.

[Zim]

Hey everyone,
This week may be very busy at work, with some possible 15 hour days. I also have my birthday near the end of it, which my wife insists we celebrate. :smash:

I may not be around quite as much after tomorrow, although I'll try. I will be able to fulfill some requests that have already been made, so no worries if you've pmed me recently. Newer stuff might be harder. If I miss something major TheFlax can take care of any rules disputes, and hopefully Econ21 might be so kind as to do any important console work.

Honestly, since the game is already started, I'm thinking it should be a smooth week, though.

[Ignoramus]

You're doing a great job Zim!

I'm pleased to see my character developing along the lines I intend for him. And right after that story too.

[_Tristan_]

Sorry fellas, Cecil just noticed an unintentional rule violation by me regarding troop transport via ships. i've PM'ed Zim for a ruling as the save is too far gone in many ways.

Sorry for the delay. As soon as I have a response from Zim we will get back to normal playing.

When can we expect the save to be released ? Did you get Zim to give a ruling about the problem ?

[ULC]

When can we expect the save to be released ? Did you get Zim to give a ruling about the problem ?

Yes, indeed - any ruling? I need to move Gaetan and the Order into the Kings stack soon. In case I don't get to it however, Tristan, you can move them into your stack.

[_Tristan_]

Fine with me...

I'll make you join the King's stack... More simple that way

[AussieGiant]

Apologies, I put the latest info in the "Seneschal's and Nobles' Reports"

We are back on.

[AussieGiant]

Vladimir.

We use the Council thread to discuss issues like the reports and the goings on in the realm.

While some of us are far away, given the time elapse it is assumed we can all get back to discuss things there.

[Vladimir]

My post was made after viewing other IC announcements in the thread. Since it was a quick post directly relevant to the thread I decided to proceed.

[AussieGiant]

My post was made after viewing other IC announcements in the thread. Since it was a quick post directly relevant to the thread I decided to proceed.

ok cool.

[_Tristan_]

AG, may I require a small delay before you reclaim the save so that I can fight the Bruges assault ?

No later than tomorrow noon, anyway.

[AussieGiant]

I was just going to ask if I could whip onto the next season tonight.

That means it will be delayed to Tuesday. Then I have a dinner on Wednesday and then head to Berlin with the girlfriend from Thursday evening until Sunday afternoon. So there will be a delay until Sunday night.

Is there a chance tonight?

[_Tristan_]

I'll try and see if I can manage.

Keep you posted.

[Vladimir]

Nice story about the infiltration. Tell me, did Atrois have a daughter named Stella?

[_Tristan_]

Sure did... And she (http://boozeitup.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/stella1.jpg) quenched the thirst of quite a few men...

[Ramses II CP]

By the way, can I shed the Pagan Magician retinue any time I want? I remember we could in the last game, but I keep forgetting to ask about this one. I'd be happy to write a little story about his departure.

:egypt:

[_Tristan_]

Rule 3(c). - Retinue: At any time, a Noble may give any retinue item/member they possess to another Noble or remove it from their avatar without giving it to anyone else. If a retinue item/member cannot be transferred or removed due to game coding or distance between avatars, console commands may be used to allow the transfer or removal.


That should allow for such a removal... And what wouldn't we do for a good story ?

[AussieGiant]

Remove away. The rule is there for that reason, mostly.

[Ramses II CP]

Will do the next time I have the save. :yes:

:egypt:

[Vladimir]

Um, can the guy who sent me a PM about a sexual tryst send it again? I hastily deleted it. For some reason my brain doesn't associate sex with names other than "ooo baby."

Thanks.

[Ramses II CP]

Vlad clear some space in your PM box, it seems to have filled up very abruptly...

:clown:

:egypt:

[Vladimir]

Vlad clear some space in your PM box, it seems to have filled up very abruptly...

:clown:

:egypt:

I like my out box tightly packed.

:drummer:

[AussieGiant]

I like my out box tightly packed.

:drummer:

Now thaaaat, is a quote!! :balloon2:

[AussieGiant]

Ok so I didn't get to the save last night. We will move on this evening Swiss time.

[Ignoramus]

Finally. Installed and ready to go!

May I also request that Gaspard's Pagan Magician, "disappear"? Normally, I dislike doing that to my characters, but Pagan Magicians are flawed.

[Ramses II CP]

I'm planning to wait until the turn goes 'round so I can do the siege at Zaragosa at the same time, but at that time I'll be happy to zap your Pagan too Igno. They are flawed, the game throws them waaaay too often and they really have virtually no in game significance or RP potential.

:egypt:

[OverKnight]

They are flawed, the game throws them waaaay too often and they really have virtually no in game significance or RP potential.

:egypt:

Do they spawn too often? Particularly at the beginning of the game when the player has not had the oppurtunity to address heresy, yes.

No RP potential? I disagree (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1492384&postcount=43).

Of course he might be the exception that proves the rule.

[Vladimir]

I hate to say it but early on in the game Toulouse is a hotbed of heresy. It makes sense.

[GeneralHankerchief]

I hate to say it but early on in the game Toulouse is a hotbed of heresy.

NOT WHEN I'M THROUGH WITH IT IT WON'T BE. :viking: :smg:

[Vladimir]

NOT WHEN I'M THROUGH WITH IT IT WON'T BE. :viking: :smg:

Hey come on now; pagan girls are fun! (just don't marry them :no:)

[AussieGiant]

Oh please!!

An undercover agent already...and he's been outed OOC in a story. :beam:

"Can you guess who it is yet?" :egypt:

[OverKnight]

Is it me? Is Hugues the Manchurian Candidate? :sweatdrop:

Though, if I was a suspicious person, the code name would seem to indicate a man associated with Elephants in past games. Who could that be?

[AussieGiant]

Me!!!???

Good god I'm a spy!! Are me Arnold's being used against me in some obscure reference to elephants?