KOTF OOC Thread

[Braden]

We’re certain to get enough Avatars in a stack to actively “join” a crusade, the point is that after that what do we do? Do we hire the Crusade forces for that stack and then divide them into several smaller stacks or do we keep it as one?

We certainly can’t have a stack of Avatars attacking London for example…who would carry the Siege ram?!? Lol

TC’s option to give every Avatar the trait is a good one and addresses an issue I was thinking of.

[_Tristan_]

There will be no need for avatars to join the Crusade right now as Philippe has enough units to do it by himself.

What remains to determine is whether we should or not allow "teleportation" to Paris of those avatars wishing to join the Crusade or have them walk the way from their own position... This could lead to some OOC discontent as IC Philippe won't wait very long before going...

OOC, however, I'm prepared to go with any solution that satisfies those willing to join...

[econ21]

After much IC debate and an edge of the seat vote, we have an Edict that sets out how to organise the crusade. Since the King voted for this, why not just have him follow it? We congregate on Paris where OK organises us into stacks and then we march on London forming up in a single stack that includes all participating avatars for the assault. No need for consols - just a little patience.


1. The Conseil authorises the Seneschal to request a crusade to be called on London from the Pope.

2. All nobles wishing to go on crusade must declare that intention and march to Paris, where the Seneschal will organise them into crusading armies under the overall command of the King. [OOC: only the Seneschal puts armies into crusade mode; crusaders have to modify their standing orders to reflect the armies they are assigned to.]

3. When the time comes to storm London, all crusading nobles will join the King in storming the settlement. [OOC: we create a stack that includes all crusading avatars so they all share the traits gained.]

4. All troops who rally to the crusade will be regarded as soldiers of France and after the crusade is successful will be either disbanded or gifted to specific army commands as the Seneschal sees fit.

[Zim]

Sorry for my absence lately, guys. I've come down with a pretty bad case of the flue. :no:

I might be off a day or so. In the meantime TheFlax is authorized to settle any rules disputes. As far as the Crusade goes, I'm thinking Econ has it right. The edict does seem to lay out how to do things pretty well. I'm happy to give some kind of trait for all crusaders, although it should be fairly small, or the dread guys will be left behind (maybe extra dread for people who go about the crusade in a vicious way, executing prisoners and exterminating settlements).

[AussieGiant]

The Edict from Econ is well worded and is based on IC voting.

It should be used.

[Ituralde]

With the Crusade and everything I did a little housekeeping of the Order of the Fleur de Lys.

With the last from Lemongate being the information that he'll probably withdraw I'm gonna park his avatar Eloi de Montferrat in Antwerp (or close to Antwerp should it interfer with Gaspard de Neufville (Ignoramus) staying governor). I don't know whether Emergency Sessions count to the two missed Council Sessions thing, so I would refrain from killing his avatar just yet.

Beskar hasn't voted in any Council Session, nor participated in the game or the Order as far as I'm aware. His avatar Loup de Gisor should be killed off at the next opportunity!

[AussieGiant]

In support of Ituralde's comment, I will once again request that the two avatars in Rennes are removed from play.

[Ituralde]

In support of Ituralde's comment, I will once again request that the two avatars in Rennes are removed from play.

One of them being Loup de Gisor! :beam:

By the way, if someone tells me how to do it and I get the proper authorization I'll try to do it the next time I have the save.

[OverKnight]

Geez, this term has been so boring and uneventful. :laugh4:

[Ituralde]

Nothing is happening nowhere. The AI really seems hell-bent on destroying itself!

Another Emergency Session anyone?! :laugh4:

[Braden]

Have-at them I say! we'll stop ourselves before we reach Moscow I'm sure....:laugh4:

[Vladimir]

Hmm... A land war in Asia sounds promising. :clown:

[AussieGiant]

Bloody hell. It's pretty amusing actually.

We could have waited a turn and simply taken the AI moves in stride and saved ourselves a lot of talking. :egypt:

[GeneralHankerchief]

Oh, beautiful. Beautiful. :charge:

[OverKnight]

I'm getting a feeling this is going to be another long turn. Why break with tradition, right? :2thumbsup:

So the save will be open longer than 24 hours, I'll keep it open until things sort out.

[_Tristan_]

For the sake of those who do not have immediate access to the save, could we make it an OOC rule that anybody that makes action upon the save posts a brief summary of his actions when posting the save back...

It would make things easier to those that access the save afterwards, knowing what was done before...

[EDIT] : And that means me as well...

[Ramses II CP]

SOT updated (in red for ease of picking out changes) and summary posted. :2thumbsup:

:egypt:

[KnightnDay]

For the sake of those who do not have immediate access to the save, could we make it an OOC rule that anybody that makes action upon the save posts a brief summary of his actions when posting the save back...

It would make things easier to those that access the save afterwards, knowing what was done before...

[EDIT] : And that means me as well...

If you see lack of comments from me, it means Thomas marched halfway to nowhere particular and back again to keep from being ignorant.

If that even helps. :clown:

[econ21]

While we are discussing OOC rules, could we make it a convention not to use the quote function to dissect your opponent's arguments line by line when debating in character? I find it very immersion breaking - it's like reading an internet debate rather than participating in a medieval council. There's also a risk in encourges internet style point-scoring and picking on tangential indiscretions rather than laying out a full case or refuting the main thrust of your opponent. It can make the discussion look rather fragmented - especially when several posts have elapsed since what you are quoting and the debate may have moved on. I realise there is a problem that we are not on line at the same time, so it is hard to simulate real life cut and thrust but there are more elegant ways of doing it. For example, just paraphrase the opponents' argument or even quote it in text without using the quote function.

So, basically, I recommend we avoid an IC post using the quote function like this:


*****************


Sausages are nice

Indubitably, His Majesty has a good point.


German sausages are the best.

There, your Majesty, you veer periously close to treason!


Crumbs, I need the bathroom!

Quod erat demonstratum.



*****************


Instead, trying something like:



*****************

On the matter of His Majesty's culinary predisposition towards sausages, he is quite to be commended. However, I fear he may be going too far in professing a speech regard for the Teuton varieties. I wish His Majesty well on his journey.


*****************


I raise this now because IIRC no one has used quotes excessively in the Conseil recently, so it won't appear I am picking on anyone.

I do think the quote function is useful for representing written text in IC speech - for example, if you are reading an edict or a letter. As presumably, a transcript of Conseil debates are kept, it might on occasion be legitimate to use the quote function to clinically dissect a controversial statement. But at one point, it was starting to happen a little too often for my taste.

[Ramses II CP]

On econ's request, I try to always spoiler out anything I feel the need to respond to IC exactly, that way the flow of my statements can be read without break, but if they don't make sense you have a reference under the spoiler tag.

:egypt:

[Vladimir]

Econ, thanks for reminding me I haven't been to the Renaissance festival yet this year. :clown: Maryland has one of the best. Time's running out!

[OverKnight]

In regard to Philippe's push for an immediate Crusade I'm going to respond here now and in the Conseil a bit later.

The calling for the Crusade is where IC and OOC issues gets muddled together. I realize that in an absolute monarchy the King could call the Crusade and set off whenever he wanted. However as the person currently running the game, I've got an Edict with very specific parameters.

Now the King has the right to declare war whenever he wishes and campaign as he sees fit, but calling the Crusade and having eligible armies join it (8 or more units) is in the Seneschal's domain. Therefore, the Crusade will not be called until the conditions of the Edict have been met or I have a concensus on how to go forward from those involved.

As for using a Crusade on the Moors or Germans, again I have a passed Edict for a Crusade on England. If two Ducs or just the King feel strongly enough and want to change this, they can call for an Emergency Session to alter what has already been agreed upon. Hugues himself will not be pursuing this option.

This all might ruffle some feathers, but I am proceeding as best I can given the current edicts and game conditions.

[Braden]

OK that sounds spot on to me.

[OverKnight]

To see how drunk Hugues should be with his little drinking game, I just checked how many times the word "Crusade" was used between his last and second to last post. It turns out it was 28, not including "Crusader" or "crusading". He then of course said it 4 - 5 times himself. :barrel:

I fear his liver might not survive the term.

Also I second Tristan's request to have each person who takes the save post a summary of what they did. I find it very helpful as Seneschal.

[AussieGiant]

Stick it to em OK :egypt:

@Econ, good point. I've never done it but it is certainly worth stating now.

I can see council sessions getting even more entertaining with the two characters we have in the King and heir.

Good work Tristan and Ramses :2thumbsup:

[Braden]

To see how drunk Hugues should be with his little drinking game, I just checked how many times the word "Crusade" was used between his last and second to last post. It turns out it was 28, not including "Crusader" or "crusading". He then of course said it 4 - 5 times himself. :barrel:

I fear his liver might not survive the term.

Also I second Tristan's request to have each person who takes the save post a summary of what they did. I find it very helpful as Seneschal.

Would it be useful for the Seneschal for us to link battle reports and stories to our save retrospectively also?

Doesn't the level of enebreation depend on what's being drunk? lol

[OverKnight]

Nah, just a short description will do. The rest I cover in the History.

28 gulps of wine could do some damage. I fear for the Kingdom if Hugues switches to Brandy.

[Northnovas]

Doesn't the level of enebreation depend on what's being drunk? lol

Its the quantity and rate of consumption.
One shot of spirits is equal to one 341ml of beer that is equal to 6 oz glass of wine. Alcohol is alcohol only body weight and empty or full stomach will affect the level of intoxication. :book:

[Braden]

So my £70-a-night binges when I was younger WERE a bad idea...:embarassed:

[OverKnight]

The save will be reclaimed in about three hours once I have finished watching the Patriots-Ravens game and I am fully caffeinated.

So if there are any last minute moves for this turn, now would be a good time to do them.

Edit: I think any idea that has the word "binge" in it, is usually a bad one. :laugh4:

[Braden]

Edit: I think any idea that has the word "binge" in it, is usually a bad one. :laugh4:

Pity, they're usually the best ones!

[GeneralHankerchief]

Okay, so what's the rule about having to move your army out after taking a city, otherwise everything belongs to the King? Is that even still in effect?

Quick response requested as I don't want to hold up the save for too long.

[Ramses II CP]

Take 'em out with you before the turn ends, or they belong to the owner of the settlement. I imagine you could petition the King to give you the settlement before the turn ends so that it can keep a garrison, since all English conquests are ratified by default IIRC.

:egypt:

[Vladimir]

I'll take out Bordeaux tomorrow night, EST.

[OverKnight]

Valencia isn't pre-ratified, so I can't recruit anything there to keep it from rebelling.

The settlement that are pre-ratified are: Bordeaux, Angers and any settlement the Crusade takes in pursuit of William.

At least that's what I understand from reviewing the Edicts (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2344153&postcount=230) still in effect.

[GeneralHankerchief]

I think we can risk it for a turn. This is M2, not Rome. Also, the English never had a garrison there AFAIK and they still held it.

[AussieGiant]

Just don't have a fit if the King disbands some of "your" units. Because they are not technically yours if you stay.

[Vladimir]

Do you really think the king will mind if a one unit garrison is maintained for the protection of the realm? If the settlement rebels it may generate a large English garrison.

[AussieGiant]

Do you really think the king will mind if a one unit garrison is maintained for the protection of the realm? If the settlement rebels it may generate a large English garrison.

That's exactly the operational issue in question.

Without the Kings support and agreement, if you don't stay the city/castle it may rebel. If you stay then all the troop in it are his and you can leave with nothing.

Interesting conundrum. One I expect to address with said ruler.

[_Tristan_]

The Kaiser was killed by a crossbow bolt and his hole body guard with him by the same unit.


Prince Henri

Miscellaneous:
Henri hates crossbows..they are "Unsuitable for a noble and likewise even for hunting, mechanical monstrosities with no place in honourable warfare" hence no more than two such armed units can be in an army lead by Henri.

I can understand why he hates xbows... but they served him right :laugh4:

I would have thought a "hole body guard" would be more "unsuitable", personally but to each his own... :clown:

[Braden]

I can understand why he hates xbows... but they served him right :laugh4:

I would have thought a "hole body guard" would be more "unsuitable", personally but to each his own... :clown:

:furious3: :laugh4: :oops: That'll teach me to type with my two year old on my lap! Nahh..think Henri hates them even more as he wanted to capture the Kaiser not kill him and they disobeyed the order to ceasefire on the Kasiers bodyguard unit (miss calculated the time it takes for backspace to work).

Curse him! Could have bankrupted the whole HRE with that one...nevermind. I'll have to put up with the 620 we got from that 2nd battle anyway.

Have to admit though that due to terrain that first battle took more casualties from Henri's army than I'd have liked...wait for full report.

Unfortunately at teh moment I can't provide much in teh way of pictures of battles as my PC's HDD is a second hand one and is only on a slave IDE connection rather than a direct SATA...this means it looks through the entire game disc when I ask it to "save as.." :wall: Still, will get a replacement HDD and ghost the old one soon...ish..

[Ramses II CP]

Just beaten to the punch on the save. I'll be able to take it after I put the piglet to bed. Wanted to make sure all my House battles went off well first, so I waited and waited and they all went fine, natch.

:egypt:

[Vladimir]

Yea, I really like Gontran. "Ze English 'have no sense of style, no elan..." and then he proceeds to bash English women. I love it!

[ULC]

Yea, I really like Gontran. "Ze English 'have no sense of style, no elan..." and then he proceeds to bash English women. I love it!

"Ze English, they have no sense of style, no elan, no manly virtues, no reason to live, no good drink, no comely women, and why, the devil himself would be ashamed to have their nobles in hell!"

I think that's the gist of it :laugh4:. I love the inflection he puts into it.

My favorite so far is "I hesitate to call our enemies stupid - it is a useful word, and does not need to be devalued. Instead, I call them "targets"!"

[Vladimir]

:laugh4: :2thumbsup:

[OverKnight]

It looks like almost all the Crusaders have gathered.

I'll call the Crusade on Nottingham at the beginning of the next turn, the main Crusader stack in Calais can use the extra movement to pick up those who've gotten a bit ahead, like the King and go from there.

Thoughts?

[_Tristan_]

I'd like the King to be in command of the stack when the Crusade is called... Makes more sense IC, don't you think ?

Philippe will walk back towards Folkestone (the English side of the Channel) and gather all Crusaders there (Please adjust your SOT people to allow me to join you in the King's stack), once done, Ok should be able to request the Crusade.

Does that suit everyone ?

[_Tristan_]

Thomas becomes Man of the Hour (Are we rejecting those? Or does the King get to choose?)

In fact, it is the adopter's choice... Who was it ? Certainly Louis, no ? If so, it is up to Ramses to accept or deny the offer.

[OverKnight]

I'd like the King to be in command of the stack when the Crusade is called... Makes more sense IC, don't you think ?

Philippe will walk back towards Folkestone (the English side of the Channel) and gather all Crusaders there (Please adjust your SOT people to allow me to join you in the King's stack), once done, Ok should be able to request the Crusade.

Does that suit everyone ?

Is that all doable during the next turn?

[_Tristan_]

I think it can be done if you're willing to declare the Crusade in mid-turn

[OverKnight]

Depending on the timing, that shouldn't be a problem.

I'm most likely going to take the save back in 5 - 6 hours to proceed to the next turn.

[_Tristan_]

The way I see it : All Crusaders assemble on the King's position, Crusade is declared, then with the movement bonus and the remining movement points, the whole stack moves north towards Nottingham.

[Braden]

Steinbach-Hallenberg battle report is up…Klingenthal battle report will be up later today.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

So, what is the situation with Charles?
I thought that I will not join KotF before couple of months but .. Charles' traits are just perfect(to me at least). He seems just so devious lovely character. :beam:
So, does Elite Ferret wants to play him? Is there a chance that I could resume playing Charles?
I think I got my motivation back when I saw his traits! :laugh4:

[Braden]

Someone better hurry and get Charles into the game otherwise there won’t be any Germans for him to hate anymore!! lol

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Someone better hurry and get Charles into the game otherwise there won’t be any Germans for him to hate anymore!! lol

:laugh4:

There are always some German peasant women he can conquer :clown:

[Braden]

Battle at Klingenthal is now up also. Again, all text unfortunately, hope it reads ok and gives a decent “picture” to the reader.

[OverKnight]

Three Kaisers down, surely Otto will get his chance?

Of course the way they've been dropping, perhaps he should stay in whatever spider-hole he's currently in.

BTW, where are those Gontran quotes from? The Aquitaine social group? I don't recognize them.

[Ramses II CP]

In fact, it is the adopter's choice... Who was it ? Certainly Louis, no ? If so, it is up to Ramses to accept or deny the offer.

Yeah, it's up to the adopter to decide if he wants to accept the MOH. Was it me? You can make an IC request but keep in mind that Louis has only natural daughters so far...

:egypt:

[Vladimir]

BTW, where are those Gontran quotes from? The Aquitaine social group? I don't recognize them.

Gontran's words are from his hart, mon Duke. :laugh4:

[Braden]

Ok...bum...:embarassed: I've just been told by my better half that currently my broadband is dead at home.

Phone company are investigating but I may not be here tonight so don't do anything important huh!

[Ituralde]

I'd like the King to be in command of the stack when the Crusade is called... Makes more sense IC, don't you think ?

Philippe will walk back towards Folkestone (the English side of the Channel) and gather all Crusaders there (Please adjust your SOT people to allow me to join you in the King's stack), once done, Ok should be able to request the Crusade.

Does that suit everyone ?

I give Overknight and Tristan the right to move my avataf nd any avatars I am allowed to move durint this turn!

I hope that's sufficient. I know I can move all the people I have in my stack, but due to traits Simon isn't the leader. That way I don't have to make that mini-movement across the Channel.

[OverKnight]

Yeah, it's up to the adopter to decide if he wants to accept the MOH. Was it me? You can make an IC request but keep in mind that Louis has only natural daughters so far...

:egypt:

The adoption offer for Thomas's MOH is indeed from Prince Louis. Obviously this is important and is a subject for Ramses and KnightnDay to settle between them.

What I'll do is make all my Seneschal moves, upload a save from right at the end of the turn when done, and wait on a decision before heading into the AI turn.

Sound good?

[Ramses II CP]

The Bern battle is up now, working on the Moors at Marseille one:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2338498&postcount=18

:egypt:

[OverKnight]

Where are some Italian mercenaries when you need them? :laugh4:

No hard feelings OOC Ramses, but Hugues can't take it anymore.

I'll be finishing off the report as soon as possible.

[Zim]

Hello everyone. I've more or less joined the land of the living, and the fever is gone. I still have some catching up to do, and the next day will be busy. However, I should be able to get rid of extra avatars shortly. The emergency session won't count against activity, but voting in it will count towards activity. So, anyone who's voted in at least one of the sessions thus far will be counted as active.

I'm sending some pms right now to see about who will get Charles.

[Braden]

Zim great to hear you back and feeling better! (not piggy flu was it?)

My bad news this morning is I can't get my current router to accept the new service provider (locked to previous one) :embarassed: so no Broadband or internet at home!

New unit on its way but might not be here for a day or so.

I can upload saves but only at work so that's not really feasable for keeping the game flowing as it causes at least an 8hr delay :oops:

Sooo....officially handing control of my Avatar over to the Captain of the Order as of today until I get back fully functioning.

Orders are to move one unit of crossbow to Frankfurt and then Henri (and remaining army) to Hamberg and besiege the castle...which will take at least two seasons anyway. A re-enforcement unit of spears I'm hoping to get in exchange from Frankfurt for the actual assault (or more merc's if spears are available).

*EDIT – Read Seneschal’s report: Ok, slight change in plans, target is Magdenburg or rather the German armies there. I want Henri to bleed the Germans of manpower before assaulting a town or castle (makes me not having an net connection far more difficult…am I permitted to allow another player to play battles for me if I specify who and which and they agree?). Ultimate goal is still Hamburg however as it makes the border more defensible rather than Magdenburg which could be taken and then used in a deal with the Germans.

[Ituralde]

I'm afraid you are not allowed to delegate your battles to another player. Battles have to be fought by a players whose avatar is present in the battle.

If your situation doesn't improve you could ask for Ignoramus to join Gaspard up with Henri or ask KnightnDay for a more cooperative approach with Thomas. All I can do is move you around and try to keep you out of harms way as any battles only involving you would have to be auto-resolved if you don't fight them.

On the upside the Rules do give you 48 hours to upload your save once you fought the battle. You should be fine if you stay on the defensive then.

[Braden]

Ahh….48hrs. Ok, we’ll I can take the save approx 17:00 local and upload again approx 08:00hrs local the following morning..would that be acceptable?

Henri cannot reach Hamburg this turn but might be able to engage the armies around Magdeburg if the spear militia are with me by the time I get the save.

Oui / Non ?

[OverKnight]

To get the unit of spear militia from Frankfurt you need KnightnDay's permission. According to his SoT, he's the only one who can move units from his city.

Also keep in mind that save games can be sent in email attatchments, or stored in usb drives and such. Try to be creative when juggling a save around lack of internet at home.

This turn should be open for a while. . .why break with precedent? :laugh4:

[Braden]

OK Already sent a message to KnD regarding the spear, awaiting his response.

I can retrieve the save via works internet connection (as late as possible) and take it home from there (USB drive) and return it the next morning – hence the 17:00 to 0800 GMT timeframe above.

Mainly its what I did with WotS but the timeframe for Saves is a lot tighter here and clashes with the Battle save deadline so I’m a bit confused.

Can’t get it back saves any earlier than 08:00 GMT without a net connection at home unfortunately.

For some reason I can’t get email attachments to send from home without it…silly technology!

..now, where’s that carrier pigeon?

[OverKnight]

If this battle is critical, and I do mean important, take the time.

If it's something that can wait. . .then I'd wait.

Either way, it's within the rules.

[Braden]

Thanks OK I’m mulling it over at the moment. I think I can avoid it for this turn certainly, unless the Ai actively strikes at me, in which case it becomes essential and falls within the bounds you’ve given. Besides any movement Henri’s stack may have will be reduced by any movement a spear unit uses to join him..curse these Germans!!

The ideal track I just can’t take without an internet connection as it means forcing the Ai to battle me so I’ll go the easy route this time.

Will message Ituralde with movement instructions to try to avoid contact. I’ll have to deal with Hamberg and German armies/Magdeburg in a turn or two.

[OverKnight]

Just thought I'd contribute to our alternate universe KotR death pool by saying that Leopold is now Prince and is in Innsbruck. Don't know who the current Kaiser is.

[Ramses II CP]

LOL, no, Louis has been baiting you quite enough to deserve a response, and of course he is a bully. And smug about it too.

So we officially have a succession issue if Louis should become King, by virtue of the fact that he has only daughters. Should make for interesting times if KotF lasts long enough. :2thumbsup:

:egypt:

[_Tristan_]

They certainly will be the most woed daughters of all France...

[Ituralde]

Just thought I'd contribute to our alternate universe KotR death pool by saying that Leopold is now Prince and is in Innsbruck. Don't know who the current Kaiser is.

Muhahaha! And you all know what happens when Leopold becomes Kaiser!!!

[KnightnDay]

In baseball when you strike out 4 times at the plate, it's said you win the "golden sombrero"

Not sure what the equivalent is with 4 daughters. So what will become of mom now? She was "walking funny" after it was just 2 girls. Look forward to the write up on this sequel.

[Braden]

Muhahaha! And you all know what happens when Leopold becomes Kaiser!!!

Ok...I'll bite.

No, actually I don't. I'm not scared to be ignorant at this stage...what happens?

(its my wife who's the Medieval history buff...I'm the Roman history one)

[Ituralde]

Leopold was my avatar in KotR, which you should know since I got him from you. And the last time my avatar was Kaiser I plunged the Empire into Civil War. Well there probably was a lot support from some secre organization, but I couldn't know that, now could I.

[Braden]

Oooohhhh...SAME Leopold!?! Geez, small world innit.

(and curses! I missed out on being Kaiser!!)

Moot point now, as my moves has been successfully done already, but my wife Sarah informs me she's fixed our router!

Back online from home...when I get there.

[TinCow]

FYI, my gaming computer has died (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=2348635). I have already ordered a replacement HDD, but it won't arrive until tomorrow and then I've got to do another format and re-install. Though I doubt it will be necessary, I will not be able to fight any battles or access the save, likely through the weekend.

[Ramses II CP]

Gotcha covered TC, I'll keep Christophe with the Prince. :2thumbsup:

:egypt:

[ULC]

Quick question - what is the precedent for someone becoming Baron in a Consiel session? Or at the start of? I thought we went over this, but I've forgotten at this point?

[OverKnight]

In order to be qualified to run for Seneschal, you have to be assigned land before the opening of the Session. This was covered when Gaspard was disqualified from running for Seneschal because he received Antwerp during the same session.

I would assume the same also applies for influence. Duke wouldn't get the extra influence from having a Count, for example, unless it's set up before the Session begins.

[Ituralde]

I agree. I think the oath thing is covered in the rules, in that no oath can be made or broken during Council Session. The same should apply to giving land, since the goal has always been to make sure that the influence at the beginning of a Council Session is the same as at the end.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

LOL, no, Louis has been baiting you quite enough to deserve a response, and of course he is a bully. And smug about it too.

So we officially have a succession issue if Louis should become King, by virtue of the fact that he has only daughters. Should make for interesting times if KotF lasts long enough. :2thumbsup:

:egypt:

Why else I want to join KotF again as Charles? :laugh4:

[OverKnight]

The inheritance AI has always been psychotic. I also can't account for the lack of sons in the game, it's like flipping a quarter and getting heads six times in a row.

My guess is that the AI would designate Barbus Selvo as the next heir, since he's getting adoption offers now.

I'm not sure how the nobles of France will react to being ruled by a Venetian. Or perhaps we could jigger it as Constance as Queen with Barbus being Prince Consort. Even then I'm not sure how the nobles of France will react to being ruled by a woman.

Should be interesting times however it works out. Maybe another "War of the Basilei"?

[_Tristan_]

Yes, the basic tenet of Frank law was Salic Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salic_law) which precludes women from inheriting titles and reigning, it is called agnatic succession and was the basis of the Cursed Kings line of books by Maurice Druon which someone mentioned in one of the game threads.

EDIT : And btw, if ever Philippe comes across a Pagan Magician in game, I think I will use him as a Necromancer, looking to make the King immortal !! Muhahahahah !

EDIT 2 : And that links to KotR when Hugo (my own avatar) killed the French King (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1843553&postcount=270) who was taking part in a Black Mass in Caen castle...

[Cecil XIX]

I'm not sure how the nobles of France will react to being ruled by a Venetian. Or perhaps we could jigger it as Constance as Queen with Barbus being Prince Consort. Even then I'm not sure how the nobles of France will react to being ruled by a woman.

Should be interesting times however it works out. Maybe another "War of the Basilei"?

Sounds like a good idea to me!

[Braden]

Nay! Henri should be next in line!! (ok, time to build a powerbase I guess)

[Cecil XIX]

Well you know, you're always welcome to join House Bourgogne... :eyebrows:

[Braden]

Hey! Here I am fighting the Germans, planning on conquering Hamberg and Magdeburg and...


...no official offers yet? :embarassed:

Does Henri smell or something? :laugh4:

*EDIT - actually, lets see what happens when Henri actually gets some land!

[OverKnight]

Well Henri is a member of the royal family, I'm not sure what the protocol is on having prince as a vassal.

[Ituralde]

I'll be spending the coming weekend at my parents. Which will be great, but I won't have too much time to come online.

The main reason I'm telling this is to ask that shold a Crusade be called against the Moors to reassess which of the Order Knights want to go. Simon de Montpierre will join the Crusade, but I haven't heard back from the other players yet so please ask them. Tristan should still have the right to remove them from his stack before a Crusade is called. I would have done this myself but I don't know if I'll have the time.

How was I supposed to know that this Seneshal term would take this long? :2thumbsup:

stupid Emergency Session...

:clown:

[Braden]

Well Henri is a member of the royal family, I'm not sure what the protocol is on having prince as a vassal.

Neither do I, hence my message to you mainly.

[OverKnight]

How was I supposed to know that this Seneshal term would take this long? :2thumbsup:

stupid Emergency Session...

:clown:

You and me both brother. It seemed like a good idea at the time.

Actually that phrase could sum up much of my term as Seneschal.

Run against the King? Give an annuity to the Pope? Trade land with England? Insist on keeping that deal? Evacuate the Bretagnes by boat? Ask for an Emergency Session? Piss of the Dauphin? Ask for a Crusade on England? Ramp up for that Crusade and go further into Germany right before the Jihad ends?

They all seemed like good ideas at the time.

The results haven't been horrible, but I've been one turn off all term. :no:

[TinCow]

The inheritance AI has always been psychotic. I also can't account for the lack of sons in the game, it's like flipping a quarter and getting heads six times in a row.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjOqaD5tWB0

[OverKnight]

Ramses orders thread post leaves me with the impression that GH and YLC still have to move. Considering they're in the Iberian Death Zone, should I hold off in taking back the save?

Nice clip TC, I remember that movie being quite the mind blower back in College.

[_Tristan_]

Your call, OK...

GH is online right now so PMing jhim might be a good idea... As to YLC, I don't know but he's not in any immediate danger from what I saw when I had the save (Gaetan was in Zaragosa, IIRC)

[GeneralHankerchief]

OK, if it's acceptable to you, I'll make my move in around 2 hours. Class before that.

[Ramses II CP]

I can do YLC's move for him in a bit if he hasn't gotten on. His SOT allows it currently.

:egypt:

[GeneralHankerchief]

Ramses, you might as well just kill two birds with one stone and take care of my move as well. I trust your judgment.

[Ramses II CP]

Ahh, okay, it'll be done shortly!

:egypt:

[OverKnight]

Tired now, I'll reclaim the save once I rise in the evening and have drunk the blood of mortals. (ie coffee)

[Zim]

Hey everybody. I'm onw hired full time with retirement and vacation time and everything. :D

New comp soon, better connectiion...

[_Tristan_]

Congrats, Zim.. I know how you've been expecting this... Good news !!

[Braden]

Read turn report…eekkk!! Big army to face (would have had to face it eventually anyway, at least it not in Magdeberg now!)

Don’t know what merc’s are available in Henri’s area but think its just crossbows…that’ll do, need bodies to fill the holes! (IC request for mercs posted now)

Haven’t mentioned the cavalry noted as recruited for me on the report in the IC post though, as I’m not sure where you recruited them from…was it Staufen?

..and well done Zim, bet your drooling over graphic cards as we type!

[OverKnight]

I recruited a mounted sergeant for Henri in Staufen. Your army could use more horse.

[Braden]

thanks OK would have been on my list eventually but I'm hoping to recruit from Hamberg before long so i'm holding of on official requests as much as possible.

I'll move the horse north to Frankfurt (if they'll reach) when I take the save tonight.

[OverKnight]

If you don't need it, others will. Either way.

[Braden]

If you don't need it, others will. Either way.

lol!! Oh I'm sure to need them at some point soon. I need a lighter cavalry to chase down routers!

[Vladimir]

Speak with your "brother."

[Braden]

Speak with your "brother."

You know that would sound like an idea but his cavalry is a bit too far away at the moment, I'm hoping to be finished with the Germans in two-three turns.

[Vladimir]

As the borders are expanding I'll work on a plan to supply distant settlement with cavalry.

[_Tristan_]

As the borders are expanding I'll work on a plan to supply distant settlement with cavalry.

Quite simple, build stables in every castle we capture (or at least in one per region) :charge:

[Vladimir]

Quite simple, build stables in every castle we capture (or at least in one per region) :charge:

Well, I was thinking of something more economically viable like trading spears for horse before they're needed. If we keep buying mercs at this rate we'll never leave the dark ages. ~;)

[Braden]

Pah! I’m an infantryman…get me some fast horse to chase down routers and lots-n-lots of spears and arrows and I’m happy to break the enemy on my lines and chase the runners down with a couple of horse companies!

[Vladimir]

Something I like doing as Venice is hire horse archer mercs and transport them back to western Europe. Works like a charm. :2thumbsup:

[Braden]

Henri picked up a veteran warrior and an extra chivalry trait that last battle..


...but what caused him to gain "Lazy" as a trait last turn? What causes that, he's been in the field and moving constantly so I'm not sure.

[Cecil XIX]

...but what caused him to gain "Lazy" as a trait last turn? What causes that, he's been in the field and moving constantly so I'm not sure.

Looking at export_descr_character_traits, it seems you can only get it when you come of age or when a new brother is adopted.

...So I have no idea.

[_Tristan_]

Maybe the marriage of Barbus Selvo did it, then or rather Charles coming of age, last turn, was it not ?

[ULC]

Just FYI, I'm going to be out with the family to do an early birthday for one of my Grandmothers. If I end up in a battle, please have Ramses conduct the battle if it is urgent, otherwise I should be back to complete it tomorrow.

[OverKnight]

I won't be picking up the save until Sunday. I'm a bit busy this weekend with work and friends.

Apologies.

[Braden]

Looking at export_descr_character_traits, it seems you can only get it when you come of age or when a new brother is adopted.

...So I have no idea.

Ahhh...either the adoption or Charles, curse the whelp! Pity, without the movement penalty Henri might have made it to Hamburg this turn. Not sure I want to chance it with just his bodyguard.

[ULC]

I'm sorry for not posting in this thread earlier, but I might as well state it now - I did not intentionally kill CDF's character, and I felt so bad that his had died and mine had not. As such, I feel I must withdraw from KotF due to this, and will at most simply watch the game progress.

Again, I am sorry it happened, and I don't expect forgiveness, but at least know this wasn't intentional, or that my character Gaetan is heartless and not angry or enraged about it.

[Vladimir]

How do I modify my username subtitle? I'd like to modify Gontran's name.

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

I'm sorry for not posting in this thread earlier, but I might as well state it now - I did not intentionally kill CDF's character, and I felt so bad that his had died and mine had not. As such, I feel I must withdraw from KotF due to this, and will at most simply watch the game progress.

Again, I am sorry it happened, and I don't expect forgiveness, but at least know this wasn't intentional, or that my character Gaetan is heartless and not angry or enraged about it.

No reason to feel bad about it. Things like that simply happen sometimes. :sweatdrop:I don't think you should have to withdraw due to an accident like that. :yes: Don't feel bad on my account.



I am not sure what I am personally going to do, might see what avatars head my way and see if I feel a story behind any of them. If I don't feel any of them I may just take a break. :sweatdrop: we will see.

[ULC]

No reason to feel bad about it. Things like that simply happen sometimes. :sweatdrop:I don't think you should have to withdraw due to an accident like that. :yes: Don't feel bad on my account.



I am not sure what I am personally going to do, might see what avatars head my way and see if I feel a story behind any of them. If I don't feel any of them I may just take a break. :sweatdrop: we will see.

I feel bad because that would not have happened to any other player. I'm not Ramses, I'm not Overknight, I'm not half the player anyone else here is. I can't rout an enemy with twigs for spears, berries for bolts, and a kitten squeak to frighten away the enemy. As such I shouldn't be playing, not least with anyone else in tow.

You died because I am an incompetent player.

[Vladimir]

Oh stop it! This is a game. He'll find another set of zeros and ones to play with. He's a creative guy.

Frankly, I'm surprised this is the first and I'm glad it happened. It adds some realism to the game. How many computer generals have fallen?

[ULC]

Oh stop it! This is a game. He'll find another set of zeros and ones to play with. He's a creative guy.

Frankly, I'm surprised this is the first and I'm glad it happened. It adds some realism to the game. How many computer generals have fallen?

Well, I'm so glad someone can find something positive out of this! Regardless of realism, CDF character died under my watch, and that is rather unfair to CDF.

[Ramses II CP]

Don't take Louis' speech the wrong way, which is to say the OOC way, take it as a man who lost his friend under a new, untested vassal's command. He's upset and finding a way to deal with it that doesn't involve violence. If I have time to post tonight he'll be drunk at the bar later, might be a good time to tell him the tale IC. :2thumbsup:

:egypt:

[ULC]

Don't take Louis' speech the wrong way, which is to say the OOC way, take it as a man who lost his friend under a new, untested vassal's command. He's upset and finding a way to deal with it that doesn't involve violence. If I have time to post tonight he'll be drunk at the bar later, might be a good time to tell him the tale IC. :2thumbsup:

:egypt:

Oh, it wasn't your speech that did me in, it was having to upload the save, and then tell everyone IC about it but not say anything OOC.

I also do not feel good about the battle - I used the "wheat field path" trick.

https://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z41/YourLordandConqueror_2007/0054.jpg

I'm not sure how "gamey" you think it is, but it was my key to victory.

[Vladimir]

No, that's smart. You used terrain to your advantage and just showed me, at least, a new trick.

[KnightnDay]

YLC, I won't speak to your competency, but on one hand I just finished a bridge battle and landed a heroic victory. :yes: On the other hand, I am playing a current solo game as Russia and am on turn 66.

I have 9 generals who have died in battle. :embarassed:

So am I highly competent as a result of the heroic bridge battle or incompetent because in my solo game I am losing a general at the rate of 1 every 7 turns?

Thing is, although these general's bodyguards are uber-units, they can still get killed easier than you think, especially as the AI will try and target them just as we go for the AI's.

If you think you don't play the game well, there is no lack of people here willing to help you get good at it.

You are welcome to PM me any time and we can go over what you think you don't do well, and make you better.

Nobody is expected to feel good about losing someone elses avatar in battle, but I do think we all understand it may happen, and as long as it isn't a malicious act, there shouldn't be any hard feelings over it.

My $.02

[ULC]

It's a tactic I used as the English - if you look in the lower corner, there is the basic wooden walls instead of the stone ones - go for those if you can, especially when they are in a "Y" structure.

This way, you can keep one unit of Billmen (no need for spears, although swords are okay) at each entrance, one behind for back up, and 3 units of Longbowmen at the center, allowing extra concentrated fire.

Should be completely impenetrable to cavalry (able to hold off 10 times their number per entrance), and most infantry short of Elite units will exhaust themselves trying to get to your reserves. Couple with Turcopoles to harass, charge the exposed rear of infantry attacking your Billmen, and mop up once done. The only caveat is that if your surrounded and your men break - your not going to have any survivors.

Because it's so effective, I feel one might consider it "gamey".

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

I would not worry about it, frankly I would never be able to pull off what Ramses and some of the other guys here can. Generals are going to die during this game, at least I go down into history as the first one in KotF's to be killed in battle. :laugh4:

Really stick around, the plot potential of this is way to big to waste. :yes:


Not sure what else can be said about it.

[Vladimir]

Oh yes, I also went to the Renn Fair today. I'm all fueled up on turkey legs, shellfish, and wine. Looking to play some more when I wake up.

[Cecil XIX]

I feel bad because that would not have happened to any other player. I'm not Ramses, I'm not Overknight, I'm not half the player anyone else here is. I can't rout an enemy with twigs for spears, berries for bolts, and a kitten squeak to frighten away the enemy. As such I shouldn't be playing, not least with anyone else in tow.

You died because I am an incompetent player.

YLC, there's been many a time when I've felt exactly the same. I can guarentee you that you're at least 1.0 teh player I am, and that people at our skill level have a place in this game.

[Ituralde]

Worst move ever!

Where did they get Feudal Knights and Dismounted Foot Knights from?!?

In the interest of full disclosure, I only saw the exact makeup once the Order Knights had made contact. Knowing that in order to beat that army I would have to make the best use out of my bodyguards, but I knew I'm no good with those advanced horse tactics you guys are applying. So I thought I'd rather wait, maybe I'll get some mercs, maybe I don't, but at least I'll have time to improve my cavalry skills before the next turn! :sweatdrop:

[Vladimir]

Well, hopefully we'll have peace with a reconciled England.

[AussieGiant]

I'm more than happy we have had a death, not because Cultured Drizzt fan is dead but because a level of realism has been introduced into the game that has previously been sadly lacking.

As much as Tristan, Ramses and OK have been our active general's, it's not realistic to expect these three players to always fight our nations battles. In fact the more it is dispersed from now on the better for the overall game.

Defeat, struggle, achievement and collaboration are far more satisfying that total world domination like a Borg army crossing Europe.

YLC, you have nothing to be sorry for, and I'm and certainly very very impressed with Cultured Drizzt fan's response.

I hope these principle remain in our player base. If I were Cultured Drizzt fan, I'd take our beloved Prince as a nice move for his next avatar. There will be a wait but it is certainly going to be fun being born into this family.

[OverKnight]

Is anyone picking up on the subtle hints that Hugues won't be running for a second term?

Edit: Nothing personal towards Simon, Ituralde, the request was just the straw that broke the camel's back.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

... If I were Cultured Drizzt fan, I'd take our beloved Prince as a nice move for his next avatar. There will be a wait but it is certainly going to be fun being born into this family.

He should take in line. Elite Ferret wanted to join KotF and Charles was promised to him.(that was when I was gone). Then, he never posted again in here and I got my life back in order so I decided to join KotF again. Zim promised to contact EF about the issue with Charles(whether he takes Charles or I can continue playing him). Anyway, I'm still waiting what EF and Zim have decided.

If CDf wants Charles as well then I challenge him in a duel! :knight::clown:

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

I hope these principle remain in our player base. If I were Cultured Drizzt fan, I'd take our beloved Prince as a nice move for his next avatar. There will be a wait but it is certainly going to be fun being born into this family.


I think Ibn is taking the other prince, so I will probably just take a RBG.


edit: see :clown:

[Ituralde]

Is anyone picking up on the subtle hints that Hugues won't be running for a second term?

Edit: Nothing personal towards Simon, Ituralde, the request was just the straw that broke the camel's back.

No problem, even if it was something personal towards Simon, as long as we're good. Looks like riding alongside the almighty King can make you a little too confident! :beam:

[Ramses II CP]

As an OOC FYI Pamplona, Bordeaux, and Valencia were all occupied as far as I know, but Louis wasn't a part of those battles and didn't make the decisions. The prisoners from the battle were executed because Louis was angry and, well, his impulse control is hardly legendary, eh? You'll note he both seconded and voted for the edict that was violated, I just didn't think it was realistic for him to observe it.

I wasn't going out of my way to point it out this time (As I did when he rode to Bordeaux) but I'm glad someone noticed. :laugh4:

I'm very short on time today and probably all week, will try to do some IC stuff tonight and see if I can finish the two battle stories I'm behind on.

:egypt:

[AussieGiant]

Fair enough.

Cultured Drizzt fan seems content with another RBG.

[flyd]

Is anyone picking up on the subtle hints that Hugues won't be running for a second term?

You made the third-best well-known blunder: never, ever run for Seneschal.

[Ituralde]

I apologize Northnovas, I tried to take care of all avatars, but I knew that I had to use them to win this battle. I'm still trying to figure out when exactly he died, as his bodyguard didn't take that many casualties. To be honest I was quite surprised to see the 'Noble Death popup' after the battle. I will work it into the Battle Report and make it look a worthwile death at least. I'll send you a copy before posting it, if you have any suggestions or additions just PM me.

Sorry once again,

Ituralde

[_Tristan_]

No !!! Not one more death !!! :cry:

Sorry, NN :embarassed: I feel some part of responsibility for having dragged all those avatars up north...

On a side note, while I feel sorry for the people involved (CDF and NN), lie others, I think it reminds us of the capability the AI has to surprise us. It is also one of the reason why I do not like taking other avatars into my stack. The battle out of Nottingham was one of the most fun moment I've had in playing M2TW and of the most tense also as I needed to engage the English with the bodyguards of at least 3 players...

As to Louis' conduct, I perfectly understand where you're coming from Ramses, but with Philippe's newly acquired 8 or 9 chivalry ranking, he just can't stand having a butcher as a son...:whip:

[econ21]

Sorry CDF and NN - I hope you will stick around and respawn. :bow:

To be honest, I am surprised we achieved so much without avatar deaths up to this point. I think the responsibility people feel for looking after others avatars is right and proper, but as long as they aren't reckless, there's no reason for OOC drama. In solo play, I lose generals - particularly second generals in a stack - quite regularly. Personally, I'd rather Hermant took his chances fighting in another player's stack than sat the game out safely in a backwater settlement.

[TinCow]

I am currently reading Jonathan Sumption's history of The Hundred Years War. During my read on the trainride home this evening, I came across a portion that seemed like it was very interesting for how we manage events IC:


The notion of public authority which made civil violence an offence against the state had been well developed in England since the twelfth century but it was only intermittently recognized in France before the fifteenth. Rebellion was simply politics by other means. The thought that it might be treason took a long time to penetrate even official circles. The stages of its penetration can be traced in the manner in which unsuccessful rebels were treated. In the twelfth and thirteenth centuries it was extremely rare for them to be executed as traitors. Guy of Dampierre, Count of Flanders, for example, went almost unpunished although he waged public war on Philip the Fair and fell into the power of his enemy. The first nobleman to be drawn and hanged for treason was Jourdain de l'Isle-Jourdain, a robber baron from the south-west 'noble in lineage but ignoble in deed' who was executed in Paris in 1323. Some of the leaders of the rebellions of Flanders were tortured to death in 1328. During the first decade of the Hundred Years War, when Philip VI had to deal with a serious crisis of public order and the dissolution of natural loyalties in the face of political and military defeat, he resorted to such public executions with gruesome regularity. These spectacular assertions of sovereignty reflected the government's fear and insecurity. They were a substitute for real authority. There were many who could not share Philip's abhorrence of treachery even under the strain of war. The executions were regard as strange and shocking. The chroniclers reported them in tones of horrified fascination. They added substantially to the unpopularity of the government.

Johnathan Sumption, The Hundred Years War I: Trial by Battle, p. 23.

Dunno about the rest of you, but that surprised me a great deal. I always assumed those who rebelled against the crown and failed suffered death on a regular basis.

[Vladimir]

It does make sense if you take the nation-state aspect out of it. Warfare was endemic to the period and I can see it happening. It's interesting that the English were ahead of the French on this one. It can't be a Saxon tradition because Saxony would rebel all the time.

[TinCow]

It does make sense if you take the nation-state aspect out of it. Warfare was endemic to the period and I can see it happening. It's interesting that the English were ahead of the French on this one. It can't be a Saxon tradition because Saxony would rebel all the time.

I suspect it has to do with greater centralization of authority in the monarchy in England. After the Normans took control, England was ruled very firmly by the various ruling dynasties. Even when the Wars of the Roses started, the Yorkists commonly said (and even believed, in the beginning) that they were fighting to remove the King's 'corrupt' advisers, not the King himself. France, by contrast, had the long history of nobles exercising almost complete autonomy within their feudal lands... which is, I believe, one of the reasons we chose this faction in the first place.

[Vladimir]

I suspect it has to do with greater centralization of authority in the monarchy in England. After the Normans took control, England was ruled very firmly by the various ruling dynasties. Even when the Wars of the Roses started, the Yorkists commonly said (and even believed, in the beginning) that they were fighting to remove the King's 'corrupt' advisers, not the King himself.

And this survived until at least the American Revolution. It's odd considering how many dynastic changes took place since Guillaume.

[deguerra]

Well yes. Much as with the Holy Roman Empire, France being modelled as one nation in this game is, from a historical standpoint, ludicrous. As such it makes sense I suppose that the grip the French monarchs had on their "vassals" would have been fairly light, though I must admit I am still surprised by what TC posted.

But how to translate it in-game? It would be good, I think, if we could encourage a more fractured political gameplay. Would make things more interesting without us banging on the poor AI and might actually put us in more of a tight spot. But I'm really not sure how I'd go about doing it.

[Vladimir]

Well it's been simulated in other games with civil war. From studying history the thought of recreating it even in a game makes me queezy but it's bound to happen. The Byzantine interactive game had someone taking the whole of Egypt. That's what I would have done. Just like what happened when Alexander died. It's the same reason the eastern Roman empire was reluctant to provide Justinian with the resources he needed to reconquer the west.

My personal objection to the game is the communication. I created a squire for Gontran because I don't like how we handle real-time communication in game. I think an effort to model communication gaps would make the game interesting. No more king near London talking to prince in Spain. But I suppose like with funding, it would make things very difficult.

One reason I like the EU games is that you can have many separate political bodies in one "country."

[Ituralde]

That's interesting to read. I'm currently watching the ShowTime series 'The Tudors', while it probably isn't as historically acuarte and portrays a little later time, it is fascinating to see just how much different sentiments were back then on a variety of subjects. I think it's difficult to capture all of them in a game like this where every player has various levels of background knowledge about the period. So I think we're doing well. The execution thing is something to keep in mind though as it gives historical precedence for not all out killing each other over some internal feud.

Maybe once the succession is in full swing we'll see Dukes acting more on their authority and even a minor skirmish or two between Houses without full out Civil War.


On a nother note. My Battle Report is up:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2353051&postcount=32

[Cecil XIX]

I suspect it has to do with greater centralization of authority in the monarchy in England. After the Normans took control, England was ruled very firmly by the various ruling dynasties. Even when the Wars of the Roses started, the Yorkists commonly said (and even believed, in the beginning) that they were fighting to remove the King's 'corrupt' advisers, not the King himself. France, by contrast, had the long history of nobles exercising almost complete autonomy within their feudal lands... which is, I believe, one of the reasons we chose this faction in the first place.

Hmm. I had heard that for a while it France it was considered a right of the vassals to be able to wage war on each other without royal intervention, but this goes even further.

Unfortunately it's extremely difficult to roleplay like this, at least for me. The mindset seems so alien.

[Braden]

I think its possible to replicate at least some of this aspect in our game.

For starters, the Duke’s could access more control over recruitment and allocation of troops. However, to really put something like this into action there are some fundamental changes we’d have to do with the construction of the game rules which would not really be possible at this stage.

To give Dukes more control we’d have to remove the Seneschals role for any direct recruiting except in his own Dukedom. No longer would there be one pot of coin but Dukes would have to have a “budget” given by the Seneschal each turn based on income from each city/castle to spend only.

This enhances the Dukes autonomy and ability to defy the King and Seneschal and even fight their own wars if they felt they could afford it financially and physically (i.e. the loss of property).

There would still have to be rules which make up the edicts the King and Seneschal hands down, with suitable punishments (unilateral declaration of war on a friendly or neutral nation resulting in seizure of property for example) but clearly the role of Seneschal is significantly downscaled. The Kings role remains mainly the same but he may feel more inclined to encourage his children to capture provinces to ensure he can have some form of physical powerbase to call on arms for official wars.

Not sure this could be done at this stage in our game but worth looking into for the next one perhaps (if we do another Medieval game).

Not sure if anything like this would be applicable for an Empire based game.

[Braden]

Changing subject entirely for a moment. What is the protocol for a Prince swearing fealty to a Duke?

[OverKnight]

I assume it would be the same as usual. There might be some be some role-playing implications. The only difficulty I would see is if the Prince is the Heir rather than just a family member. Eventually, he'll become King, leaving the House. But that's covered in the rules.

[_Tristan_]

Yes, I don't see any particularity about this kind of oath... As to RP, one could consider the oath as some kind of tutorship of the Prince under the Duke... Gaining skills in governance...

[econ21]

Braden, I think you should negotiate your own IC protocol. For example, the oath probably should include some recognition that - should the Prince inherit, the boot will be on the other foot. A "So long on as I remain Prince..." clause would do it. :beam:

[Braden]

Yeah, ok, I get the angle now. Just seemed odd a Prince in Fealty to a Duke, what’s next? Horses eating each other?!? (American Dad reference)

[OverKnight]

The rules already cover some of those concerns:

Inheritance: On the death of a King, all Oaths of Fealty pertaining to the Noble who is now King are instantly broken, with no penalties. The new King takes control of any provinces in the King's Demesne, as well as retaining those under his control at the time of his ascension. If he was Duke of his House, his named heir for that post attains the rank. In the absence of a named heir, the second in charge of the House becomes Duke.

Granted moving from family member to being the heir might cause some shifts in fuedal relationships. Most likely it could be handled IC since the Liege would not want to anger the future King.

[Braden]

“The new King takes control of any provinces in the King's Demesne, as well as retaining those under his control at the time of his ascension.”

- See, that’s where Louis becomes REALLY dangerous!! Lol :laugh4: As for Henri, significantly in the shadow of Louis so from that aspect the RP is a bit easier I think.

[_Tristan_]

Could we agree to give the King (ie, myself) a time slot of about 6-12 hours before calling the next session of the Conseil, to allow me to distribute lands according to the requests presented to me ?

I won't retain too many territories into the King's Demesne and we all know how useful being handed a territory before a session can be.

[OverKnight]

I'm going to be taking back the save in about 16 hours from now if that's any help.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Still waiting.... :book:

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

Now I am waiting too..... :laugh4:

[Northnovas]

Now I am waiting too..... :laugh4:

Ditto lets see what spawns and CDF would have first choice. I am sorry I didn't write something for the avatar a couple ideas got to me but I didn't get them down. I will try with the next one.

In KotR I lost an avatar defending Vienna and I know what it feels like as Tristen mentions some of those battles can be the most fun and yet nerve racking when other avatars are involved. They just don't have the punch when you are using your own avatar in battle. :dizzy2:

We will see what the new save brings. Game on!

[Ramses II CP]

My SoT has been updated assigning provinces. FYI. :2thumbsup:

edit: I should also add that GH sent me a PM giving me permission to move for him as necessary at the moment, using which I intend to redistribute the garrison of Zaragosa.

:egypt:

[GeneralHankerchief]

Confirmed.

[Cecil XIX]

I think its possible to replicate at least some of this aspect in our game.

For starters, the Duke’s could access more control over recruitment and allocation of troops. However, to really put something like this into action there are some fundamental changes we’d have to do with the construction of the game rules which would not really be possible at this stage.

To give Dukes more control we’d have to remove the Seneschals role for any direct recruiting except in his own Dukedom. No longer would there be one pot of coin but Dukes would have to have a “budget” given by the Seneschal each turn based on income from each city/castle to spend only.

This enhances the Dukes autonomy and ability to defy the King and Seneschal and even fight their own wars if they felt they could afford it financially and physically (i.e. the loss of property).

There would still have to be rules which make up the edicts the King and Seneschal hands down, with suitable punishments (unilateral declaration of war on a friendly or neutral nation resulting in seizure of property for example) but clearly the role of Seneschal is significantly downscaled. The Kings role remains mainly the same but he may feel more inclined to encourage his children to capture provinces to ensure he can have some form of physical powerbase to call on arms for official wars.

Not sure this could be done at this stage in our game but worth looking into for the next one perhaps (if we do another Medieval game).

Not sure if anything like this would be applicable for an Empire based game.

Bringing it back to this topic.

Not to toot my own horn, (though I suppose I am indirectly...:sweatdrop:) but I think the basic idea behind my test PBEM "Vassals and Valour" would be a positive step towards getting a satisfying level of decentralization.

For those who don't know, the basic idea behind V&V was to look at every source of income and expense in the economics leger and assign each individual item to one player. Thus each player would have their own expenses, sources of income and treasures, much like a minifaction.

I know my experiment ended poorly, but that was my failure rather than a failure of the experiement. When I first made the rules I intentionall left out as much as a could, with the hope of isolating the new mechanic I wanted to test. Then in my enthusiasm I went and tried to start a full fledged PBEM when the rules just weren't suited to a real game. There was no reason for the players to talk to each other, and so it quickly fell apart.

But I am quite confident of one thing: V&V showed that it is possible for each player to be a mini-faction as long as there is one person who is willing to do the work of calculating everbody's finances for the players. And I am ready to do that people think it would make a good game.

Hopefully the players who participated in V&V, and also it's inspiration the KotR test game can add their thoughts as well.

Of course this is probably too big a change to implement while KotF is still running, which hopefully it will for quite some time. Something to think about until then, anyway. :yes:

[OverKnight]

End of turn report is up. I apologize that it lacks a summary of the term, but I'm feeling lousy. I'm running a fever, so I'm not sure how much I'll be around the next few days.

[Braden]

Ooo…dude, watch that Piggy-flu! Get well soon and dose up on many, many drugs.

[deguerra]

Bringing it back to this topic.

Not to toot my own horn, (though I suppose I am indirectly...:sweatdrop:) but I think the basic idea behind my test PBEM "Vassals and Valour" would be a positive step towards getting a satisfying level of decentralization.

For those who don't know, the basic idea behind V&V was to look at every source of income and expense in the economics leger and assign each individual item to one player. Thus each player would have their own expenses, sources of income and treasures, much like a minifaction.

I know my experiment ended poorly, but that was my failure rather than a failure of the experiement. When I first made the rules I intentionall left out as much as a could, with the hope of isolating the new mechanic I wanted to test. Then in my enthusiasm I went and tried to start a full fledged PBEM when the rules just weren't suited to a real game. There was no reason for the players to talk to each other, and so it quickly fell apart.

But I am quite confident of one thing: V&V showed that it is possible for each player to be a mini-faction as long as there is one person who is willing to do the work of calculating everbody's finances for the players. And I am ready to do that people think it would make a good game.

Hopefully the players who participated in V&V, and also it's inspiration the KotR test game can add their thoughts as well.

Of course this is probably too big a change to implement while KotF is still running, which hopefully it will for quite some time. Something to think about until then, anyway. :yes:

On a general basis, I'd always be interested in something like this. However, I think it requires a certain level of dedication from a fairly large level of players. What makes our PBMs work so well, I think, is that so far we can choose to some extent how much we participate: some more, some less.

While it does cause some frustration at times, it generally works. In a more....dedicated game such as yours, I would fear that it might collapse due to too many people doing too little.

Thoughts?

[_Tristan_]

I have almost the same fears... One of the OOC reason I declared so many wars at one time was to provide opportunities for the largest group of players to be involved in battles (even if I fought a large number of them :embarassed:) and to give us some more challenge...

In Cecil's idea, I fear that only those land-owning players would get to really play the game with the others watching by the sideline...

[Braden]

I agree mainly. Not sure I agree with the fact that it would limit battles for players though, the key of course would be land ownership (mostly) but its not going to be limited to that. The KEY is to have players as Dukes who are of a high quality when it comes to RP and gamesmanship.

For example a Duke “could” control one large army stack and do all the fighting, leaving his vassals (who are also Player Character Avatars) as governors. This, of course ,is the poor end of the scale. Ideally a Duke would use his influence and lands to generate multiple smaller army stacks and allocate some autonomy to their vassals that not only govern specific areas but those without direct control of land.

In this instance each Duke effectively becomes a Mini-Seneschal for their land holdings but in effect each vassal has control of all of the Dukes lands (perhaps apart from their official capital).

[_Tristan_]

On another note, I've justed noted that Philippe's portrait changed : he has now a crop of white hair... Starts smelling of pine in here...

EDIT : France will soon be called the Empire and be ruled by a Sith Lord... May the Force be with you...


http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/thumb/5/5d/Darktimesbegin.jpg/250px-Darktimesbegin.jpg

MUAHAHAHAHAHA !!! (Impersonation of King Louis)

[Braden]

So, which of us is Darth Maul and which Vader?

[Ramses II CP]

The Emperor didn't have enough wine, women, and song around him to suit Louis' tastes... although it must be said that lightning thing would be useful in some of these Council sessions.

:egypt:

[Zim]

Been working the graveyard shift and still trying to get my day to day schedule together.

I understand we need a few rgbs? 3?

I will also finally kill off the inactive avatars, unless anyone would like to take them.

[Braden]

Zim

With a couple of players waiting in the wings and our current active ones having lost a few, do you have a list of inactive Avatars you can put forward for people to choose?

Might make life easier for them to pick.

[_Tristan_]

We have currently at least two inactive avatars : Loup de Gisors and Pierre de St Germain (both located in Rennes).

I don't know the status of Eloi de Montferrat (near Antwerp) but IIRC he's not far from going inactive.

[econ21]

Braden - please can you amend your edict to remove the part about demolishing military buildings in Nottingham and London? I know it has an IC logic, but OOC we really don't need to further weaken the AI in this game. We can't really argue about this IC, as IC you are right, no doubt.

To the folk without avatars - if you want a new RBG, I assume they won't be spawned until after this Conseil session but I think Zim will probably allow you to vote in the session as an anonymous Councillor.

[Braden]

Braden - please can you amend your edict to remove the part about demolishing military buildings in Nottingham and London? I know it has an IC logic, but OOC we really don't need to further weaken the AI in this game. We can't really argue about this IC, as IC you are right, no doubt.

Hmm..ok I see your point.

[econ21]

Thanks, Braden.


We have currently at least two inactive avatars : Loup de Gisors and Pierre de St Germain (both located in Rennes).

I don't know the status of Eloi de Montferrat (near Antwerp) but IIRC he's not far from going inactive.

I agree that Eloi is inactive - I think the Lemongate told Zim he was leaving the game a while back. Alphonse la Hire should also be added to this list - IIRC, Rowan posted in this thread that he has dropped out of the game. These avatars had good traits when spawned (I don't know if they have picked up any bad vices since) and I don't think their original owners developed their characters so much that it would restrict another player who picked them up. Zim will be spawning fresh avatars but Elite Ferret, Ibn, CDF and Northnovas should let Zim know if they want to pick up an abandoned avatar instead. Presumably either EF or Ibn will get Prince Charles.

[_Tristan_]

On the question of rebels, I see them as they are, ie, simply rebels so either nobles or villains that stand by themselves imposing their rule on their lands or simply bandits marauding (depending on whether they are in a settlement or not).

So, while I see the OOC jusitification of the move proposed by Braden, I think it makes no IC sense... Hence, Philippe's opposition to it...

I can't think of a single instance when a conquering army on a winning spree and certainly with more to come would abandon its gains and withdraw without having drawn a single benefit...

[TinCow]

On a historical level, it is worth noting that the Scots didn't wear kilts until the 1500s. It's yet another factual headache caused by Braveheart...

[_Tristan_]

Yes, but they certainly do in M2TW... Hence, Philippe's reference to it...:tongue3:

[Braden]

On the question of rebels, I see them as they are, ie, simply rebels so either nobles or villains that stand by themselves imposing their rule on their lands or simply bandits marauding (depending on whether they are in a settlement or not).

So, while I see the OOC jusitification of the move proposed by Braden, I think it makes no IC sense... Hence, Philippe's opposition to it...

I can't think of a single instance when a conquering army on a winning spree and certainly with more to come would abandon its gains and withdraw without having drawn a single benefit...

Aye, but if we agreed all the time...how boring would that be! :laugh4: I've found a sentient argument I can hold IC that's completely counter to many in the council and I'm gonna hang on to it like a pit-bull on a rope! :2thumbsup:

[_Tristan_]

And I'll be sure to put a muzzle on that pit-bull

Good doggy... Good doggy...:whip:

[_Tristan_]

Replaced one of my many battle reports (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2338488&postcount=17) placeholders...

Working on the rest...

[OverKnight]

Well after a thoroughly unpleasant three days, I'm feeling better, antibiotics are wonderful things. :2thumbsup:

The history should be up to date. If I've missed anything, let me know. As always suggestions and links to memorable portions of the game are welcome. Between being Seneschal and my illness, I haven't been as eagle-eyed as usual the past term.

Also I see the role of the Loyal Opposition has passed on to another member of Lorraine, further cementing our claim to the title of "House Most Likely to be a Smoking Ruin in the Near Future". :laugh4:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Replaced one of my many battle reports (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2338488&postcount=17) placeholders...

Working on the rest...

If you continue this way you will loose your title: King of Placeholders! :no:

OK, good to see you back! :2thumbsup:

[OverKnight]

Thanks IK.

Let's be classy and call Tristan: Le Roi de l'espace réservé.

[Ramses II CP]

Dear House of Lorraine,

This is just a note to let you know that respectful opposition to my inevitable ascension is tolerable only so long as it is also a failure. Keep this in mind in the coming days.

All the best,

Louis the Lenient

:clown:

:egypt:

[deguerra]

Dear House of Lorraine,

This is just a note to let you know that respectful opposition to my inevitable ascension is tolerable only so long as it is also a failure. Keep this in mind in the coming days.

All the best,

Louis the Lenient

:clown:

:egypt:

I get the uncomfortable yet excitingly tingly feeling that there will be a Reckoning (note the capital R) when Louis becomes King.
:clown:

[OverKnight]

Dear House of Lorraine,

This is just a note to let you know that respectful opposition to my inevitable ascension is tolerable only so long as it is also a failure. Keep this in mind in the coming days.

All the best,

Louis the Lenient

:clown:

:egypt:

If you strike us down, we shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.

Hugues the Quixotic

Edit: Hmmm, if you lop off the "in": Dauph Louis. The game only has two characters with honorifics, King and Prince. . .There are only two Sith, Master and Apprentice. My God we're through the looking glass here. It's all so clear now.

Medieval France was ruled by the Sith Lords!

[deguerra]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bzWSJG93P8

[Vladimir]

Of all the images of France possible, I didn't think they'd be compared to the empire from Star Wars. :laugh4:

[Ramses II CP]

You know, really, the reputation of French nobility of the period wouldn't be far off. Mighty warriors, feared the world over, divided at home and often defeated by their own greed or inability to cooperate amongst themselves.

Not great practitioners of the force though. :laugh4:

:egypt:

[OverKnight]

It seems Proclamation 3.1 won't make it out of committee as there was only one second for it. Louis voiced his "support" for it, but didn't officially second it.

Or am I missing something?

Edit: It would also be helpful if players could tally their influence and include it on their SoT post.

[Braden]

Also, it was clearly stated IC by Philip that he was reconsidering it and would resubmit a revised version of it.

That's not occurred within the timeframe.

Political stalling at its best! Go Counseil!! :laugh4:

[Ramses II CP]

I will always use the correct language if I intend to second something. :yes:

:egypt:

[_Tristan_]

Don't worry... The Emperor will have the last word... MUHAHAHAHAHA !!! (Or will try at least...)

[Braden]

Hmmmm..

(quietly plans THE longest posting in the history of PBeM's)

...pretty sure I can talk for an entire session. :laugh4:

[_Tristan_]

:laugh4:

[OverKnight]

Does the King have an authority of 9 now? He gets to veto one piece of legislation per three points of authority.

[_Tristan_]

Actually, he does... It rose suddenly from around 6 to 9 directly...

[Cecil XIX]

Actually, he does... It rose suddenly from around 6 to 9 directly...

Jeez, and he vetoed the most popular proposals too... :clown:

Actually, I think it would be better RP in the future if the King announced his vetoes in the Conseil. Having Zim say so in the voting thread is a bit boring, no offense intended of course.

Also, I've updated the influence column in the Library, though I've placed Barvus Selvo's influence in Constance's row. I'm sorry for not keeping it up to date these last two sessions, rest assured it will be fully brought up to speed before the 4th session. :yes:

[AussieGiant]

The King is going to have to make a statement in the Council.

It's not appropriate for Roleplaying to have a GM to make an administrative statement in the poll.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

The King is going to have to make a statement in the Council.

It's not appropriate for Roleplaying to have a GM to make an administrative statement in the poll.

Seconded! :beam:

[Vladimir]

Hey, pipe down you. He vetoed the resolutions you are against. :inquisitive:

And vetoing 13:1 legislation...:thinking:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Hey, pipe down you. He vetoed the resolutions you are against. :inquisitive:

And vetoing 13:1 legislation...:thinking:

I know that.

That's why I would like to know why he gave me such support! :beam:

Anyway, from this thing interesting IC conflicts might emerge!:2thumbsup:

[AussieGiant]

This certainly creates some entertaining options.

[econ21]

With Zim's approval, I have buffed the AI military slightly. It's similar to what I did at the start of the game, so nothing cataclysmic - just adding a few good units to most settlements and rather more to each capital. Zim may want to take a final look at it before play proceeds, but it should not cause any issues.

The only warning I would give is to the two generals besieging German settlements. I did not add troops to the besieged settlements but I did give what they should have got to neighbouring ones. If those settlements are captured, it might be unwise to loiter there and risk being trapped by newly spawned troops. Out in the field, you can always retreat.

I would note that we have done a pretty good of rushing the AI with almost no armies of our own to speak of. We are now the largest faction in land and population. England and the HRE - our natural enemies - are effectively gutted and could be wiped out by the next Conseil. A period of consolidation might be in order or this game is going to becoming unchallenging very soon. An event soon to rebalance things might be in order.

[Vladimir]

I know that.

That's why I would like to know why he gave me such support! :beam:

Anyway, from this thing interesting IC conflicts might emerge!:2thumbsup:

Oh, I think I know why. This should be an interesting succession. :evil:

Ramses: The man who would be king...but won't!!!

dun dun dunnunununun

[ULC]

I'm sorry to have been inactive these past few weeks, but I've simply lost interest in that game and now that I am in a professional gaming league with two upcoming tournaments for another game (Alliance of Valiant Arms), I've been under a lot of pressure to perform as my teams pointman.

I may get back in sometime late November, but right now I am far to occupied. The only good thing out of this is now if I do well, I can start getting paid for playing video games :laugh4:

[_Tristan_]

Actually, I think it would be better RP in the future if the King announced his vetoes in the Conseil. Having Zim say so in the voting thread is a bit boring, no offense intended of course.


I would have posted my vetoes in the Conseil thread earlier but by discussing my intent with him, we decided that I should veto the Edicts prior to the posting of the voting thread, by PMing him the vetoes.

We concurred that posting my intention to veto those Edicts would defeat its purpose as therefore as it could allow people to post new Edicts with the same intent but a different wording.

It also prevented the King from vetoing Edicts that were meant to pass.

Zim can give proof that my PM was sent to him long before the voting started.

[TinCow]

I would have posted my vetoes in the Conseil thread earlier but by discussing my intent with him, we decided that I should veto the Edicts prior to the posting of the voting thread, by PMing him the vetoes.

We concurred that posting my intention to veto those Edicts would defeat its purpose as therefore as it could allow people to post new Edicts with the same intent but a different wording.

It also prevented the King from vetoing Edicts that were meant to pass.

Zim can give proof that my PM was sent to him long before the voting started.

I believe the method used was the proper one. Zim asked for my opinion on when vetoes should be submitted, and I stated that the above method was the proper one. That seems like the fair balance: by waiting until the Conseil session is closed, that prevents nobles from getting around the veto by simply proposing a similar edict with slightly different wording. At the same time, by forcing the King to use the veto before voting begins, he takes the risk of vetoing something that would have failed anyway. Seems like a fair balance to me.

At the same time, I'm pleased that Zim waited to post the results of the veto until after voting had finished, because it's important to see how people would have voted on the vetoed Edicts... and we wouldn't get a fair picture of that if people had already known they were vetoed before they even began to vote.

[AussieGiant]

This is certainly the correct way and the only real way veto powers are able to be effective.

Of course now that the King has shown his appetite for doing this, the more astute legislators might fight back tactically with a number of different ways. :egypt:

I would have simply preferred the King to make his statement in the Council after the poll closed, thereby keeping it IC and effective.

But hey we live and learn so perhaps for next time.

[TinCow]

I would have simply preferred the King to make his statement in the Council after the poll closed, thereby keeping it IC and effective.

Ah, yes... I was simply commenting on the timing of the actions. Making the announcement IC instead of OOC would probably be better in the future.

[Cecil XIX]

I would have posted my vetoes in the Conseil thread earlier but by discussing my intent with him, we decided that I should veto the Edicts prior to the posting of the voting thread, by PMing him the vetoes.

We concurred that posting my intention to veto those Edicts would defeat its purpose as therefore as it could allow people to post new Edicts with the same intent but a different wording.

It also prevented the King from vetoing Edicts that were meant to pass.

Zim can give proof that my PM was sent to him long before the voting started.

As has been said, these are all very good reasons for the timing. But they having nothing to do with the location where the vetoes were issued, which was the source of my suggestion.

[deguerra]

Umm...as a small matter, where have my votes gone?? It may just be me, but I can't see my name in any of the legislation. That said I'm on a slow connection atm, which may explain either my votes not having registered or not being there for some reason.

It's not a biggy, my votes changed nothing that I can see. But in terms of inactivity, I don't want it to look like I didn't vote.

Any ideas?

[OverKnight]

If you can't vote in the poll again, just post your votes in the legislation thread. Whoever reviews it for activity will know you voted and I'll count your votes.

[deguerra]

think it's still open, so I'll give it a shot. Just wanted to make sure.

[OverKnight]

Here what I think is everyone's influence:

Tristan: 9
Ramses: 3
OK: 3
AG: 2
TheFlax: 2

Everyone else is 1.

Am I missing anything?

[Vladimir]

Vladimir's influence is:



1 + https://img96.imageshack.us/img96/3900/66153318.jpg (https://img96.imageshack.us/i/66153318.jpg/)

But yea, Gontran's is only 1.

[Cecil XIX]

Here what I think is everyone's influence:

Tristan: 9
Ramses: 3
OK: 3
AG: 2
TheFlax: 2

Everyone else is 1.

Am I missing anything?

Those are my counts as well.

[HolyGateKeeper]

Greetings, fellow Burgundians, I am the Archbishop of Worms! And keeper of the holy gates in heaven. It is eloquent to see my cousins oncemore, for I am a saintly meek old man, with nothing else to do but perform liturgies, sacraments, marriages, and preach the others about the good news of the Bible, and we all can kill heretics by helping so, lol. But I'm glad to be with my Burgundian nobility, and bretheren, and will be active most of the time.

[HolyGateKeeper]

Archbishop of Cologne! I really messed up there. Ok then for now on I'm the Archbishop of Cologne. Sorry it's just that I looked up the archbishopric coat of arms of the German city of Worms, and I found out it didn't exist, so I went more French and got the province of Cologne.

[HolyGateKeeper]

I wonder if my ecclesiastical heraldry is too big...

[TinCow]

I wonder if my ecclesiastical heraldry is too big...

Indeed it is. The rules on signatures are as follows:

The rules for signature pictures are:

* 10,240 bytes max.
* no sound.
* max 500 pixels wide, max 150 pixels high.

The byte size limit is fungible if it's not otherwise too large, but the pixel size needs to be respected or it starts to make the threads difficult to read. Your current signature is 434px × 500px, so it's fine on width, but over 3 times too large on height.

Welcome to the forums, though! And welcome to KotF, we're glad to have you.

[HolyGateKeeper]

Do I get my own coat of arms, or do I form my own, because I think they don't have a ecclesiastical coat of arms generator. Btw, if you guys have MTW2:Kingdoms, then welcome to my world, lol. Because I have it, and it ain't a Steam version. :2thumbsup:

[AussieGiant]

Hi there HolyGateKeeper.

Good to have you on board.

First thought that popped into my head though...is this a set up? :egypt:

[econ21]

Welcome HolyGateKeeper. :bow:

In the Bourgogne thread you mentioned having talked to the Duke - have you been in contact with CecilXIX about joining this game? If so, I am not sure how much he has told you as there are quite a lot of rules and games mechanics to get familiar with, although playing is very simple. There are two dimensions to the game - what happens in the MTW game and what happens in the forums.

To fully participate in the MTW game, you need to install the LTC mod and minor mini-mod we are using. Instructions are in the sticky at the top of this thread. You also need an in-game representation - an avatar. The gamesmaster is Zim, so you should PM him to discuss getting an avatar. We all now have generals as avatars, as that means we can participate in battles, although in the past some people in these kind of games have had agents such as Priests or Cardinals. It might be possible to role-play a general who was also in the clergy (I seem to recall William the Conqueror brought at least one high ranking battling clergyman with him to Hastings), although you'd probably want to negotiate that with Zim.

To participate in the forum side of the game, you need to stay in character in most of the threads labelled KOTF except this one. So if you have any queries and out of character comments, this is the thread to do it. If you want to discuss Duchy business in character, use the Duchy thread - there's also a social group that Cecil could invite you to join. If you want to talk more widely in a formal way in character, use the Conseil - informally, use the tavern. The reports and orders thread is mainly for when you are picking up save game to move your avatar - its becoming an OOC thread now, as substantive in character issues are being directed to the Conseil to keep that thread lively out of session.

I hope it's not too much to take in at once. I'd recommend browsing the stickies and recent threads to get a feel for things.

[_Tristan_]

Hi, all...

To adress your concerns about the lack of an IC post in the Conseil thread, it was mainly due to the fact I knew that i'd probably be unable to post when the voting period elapsed... Hence my request to Zim to make it known what Edicts I intended to veto... I thought he would have made an announcement in the IC thread in the form of an hearl announcement but chose rather to do it in the voting thread.

I should get to the save tonite but nothing is sure as I'll be celebrating the 2-years of my little girl :birthday2:

At the latest, the save should be posted Saturday evening.

[Braden]

Hi, all...

To adress your concerns about the lack of an IC post in the Conseil thread, it was mainly due to the fact I knew that i'd probably be unable to post when the voting period elapsed... Hence my request to Zim to make it known what Edicts I intended to veto... I thought he would have made an announcement in the IC thread in the form of an hearl announcement but chose rather to do it in the voting thread.

I should get to the save tonite but nothing is sure as I'll be celebrating the 2-years of my little girl :birthday2:

At the latest, the save should be posted Saturday evening.

Oh cool! My little boy turned 2 only two weeks ago...and his sister was seven the week before...have fun :juggle2:

[Vladimir]

Using French words and phrases is good but can an individual be awarded a settlement? I thought it was per house.

[Northnovas]

Before the save gets going are we going to recuit some new avatars? I will pick from something that is generated rather then the current inactive left overs. I think there at least 4 members looking for avatars.

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

So true. was just waiting for someone to bring it up. :juggle2: waiting and waiting. :laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:

[HolyGateKeeper]

Wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait, wait.... So where are the rules? I don't see any rules, plus I'm thinking I might be in looney land :inquisitive:

[econ21]

Before the save gets going are we going to recuit some new avatars?

My understanding is that we are starting a new turn - that's what Tristan reported on. Ideally, we should have queued up the avatars last turn but I guess we missed that chance. If my understanding is correct, we don't need to hold up moves this turn, but I agree we should not press end turn again until we have sorted this out. Zim should be the one handling this, but given that things are moving on, maybe we should just do it ourselves.

The Seneschal would be the obvious person to do it, but Tristan is having trouble killing off avatars. Ideally we would recruit more avatars than we need to give people a choice, but if we can't kill them off, I would not advise that. Can anyone download the save and kill off Eloi de Montferrat (TheLemongate), Pierre de Saint-Amand (everyone), Loup de Gisors (Beskar) and Alphonse la Hire (Rowan)? If we can do that, we can then decide how many new RBGs need recruiting (I dimly rmention being made of people having a choice of 3).

I'll have a go if no one else feels confident.


Wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait, wait.... So where are the rules? I don't see any rules, plus I'm thinking I might be in looney land :inquisitive:

Please read all the threads that are "stickied" (i.e. at the top of this forum), especially this one:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=120308

[Ituralde]

Go ahead and kill them. I thought we discussed only spawning one avatar for each player, but I can't find it anywhere in the rules so I'm fine with the choice thing. Another thing I fonud though was the restriction of having to wait five turns for a new RGB to be spawned. I haven't been counting, and honestly I currently see no need to follow that rule too strictly, but I wanted to mention it none the less.


Another thing I noticed and that I am now unclear on is the ratification of provinces. There's a segment in the rules about it, specifically the condition that unratified provinces have to be abandoned or given away. Is this something we enforce IC or OOC? And do we have an overview somewhere which provinces are ratified and which aren't? Because Nottingham and York were not ratified during the last Session, but Edict E1.10 has a wording sketchy enough that would make them both ratified along with London, since they all were used by William to hide in. But then Londons ratification in the last Session was somewhat superfluos. So do we decide whether a ratification is valid IC or OOC?

As the whole of Albion will probably be an IC topic soon I'd just like us all to be on the same page OOC.

So Nottingham, York and London were all ratified prior to their capture by Edict E1.10! Am I right, or am I right?

[shlin28]

Greetings!

Having recently re-installed M2TW on my new laptop, and with plenty of spare time on hand, I wish to join this game, if you will have me :yes:

I have already installed LTC as well as the KOTF mod, and tested it out on the latest save. Am I right in assuming that I only need to wait before I will be assigned an avatar? :juggle2:

[econ21]

Go ahead and kill them. I thought we discussed only spawning one avatar for each player, but I can't find it anywhere in the rules so I'm fine with the choice thing. Another thing I fonud though was the restriction of having to wait five turns for a new RGB to be spawned. I haven't been counting, and honestly I currently see no need to follow that rule too strictly, but I wanted to mention it none the less.

I did not see the 5 turn rule; given that, I think it's best to wait for Zim to sort all this out. It sounds like we have two deaths and three new or returning players to accommodate. That's quite a big job - best to do it properly.


Because Nottingham and York were not ratified during the last Session, but Edict E1.10 has a wording sketchy enough that would make them both ratified along with London, since they all were used by William to hide in.

...

So Nottingham, York and London were all ratified prior to their capture by Edict E1.10! Am I right, or am I right?

I think the King could plausibly make that case.


So do we decide whether a ratification is valid IC or OOC?

My 2 cents: in the first instance, decide IC about validity, with OOC decisionmaking (appeal to the GM) as a backup. For example, in the case of Nottingham and York, the King has an arguable case and so dealing with that IC seems appropriate. At the moment, given that the Seneschal decides issues of edict interpretation affecting the King, he seems in a strong position to get his way. If Overknight was still the Seneschal, I could see the issue going the opposite way. If a ratification claim was purely bogus - e.g. if there was no Edict E1.10 but the King just wanted to keep Nottingham and York - then OOC enforcement would be appropriate.


Am I right in assuming that I only need to wait before I will be assigned an avatar? :juggle2:

Hi and welcome! :bow: Yes, sounds like you are good to go. I am sure our gamesmaster, Zim, will help you when he next checks in - there are about four other players also needing avatars.