KOTF OOC Thread

[Ramses II CP]

MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! I believe I have managed to leave at least one false hint leading to each and every character in the game, short of the King.

So guess your heart out. :laugh4:

:egypt:

[Cecil XIX]

False hint, huh? So then Louis is either misinformed about his double agent or he's lying to himself in his own head...


MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! I believe I have managed to leave at least one false hint leading to each and every character in the game, short of the King.

So guess your heart out. :laugh4:

:egypt:

[Ramses II CP]

False hint, huh? So then Louis is either misinformed about his double agent or he's lying to himself in his own head...

Very little of Louis' interactions have been in his head... but I think I see what you mean, no this chap has been with the Prince for longer than the period of the story. The hints are strewn all the way back to the tournament.

:egypt:

[Cecil XIX]

Just to be clear, I was wondering how you could drop an OOC 'false hint' in an IC internal monologue. But now you've got me thinking...

Bah, too bad it's best not to discuss it for RP reasons. It's the characters who need to do the thinking, not the players!


Very little of Louis' interactions have been in his head... but I think I see what you mean, no this chap has been with the Prince for longer than the period of the story. The hints are strewn all the way back to the tournament.

:egypt:

[Vladimir]

It's a pity we weren't able to accept that marriage proposal. In a single player game I would have accepted. He's quite a catch; smart and loyal.

[_Tristan_]

Same here but with no player waiting on an avatar, it would have been a nuisance...

[TinCow]

There are other ways to dispose of the princess...


Influence is increased permanantly by 1 if a Noble marries a Princess of the royal family

[AussieGiant]

There are other ways to dispose of the princess...

Pipe down there TC. :balloon2:

There is a time and a place to quote the rules.

You're giving too much instruction. :egypt:

[Vladimir]

Interesting. I find my thoughts focused on this game but I see that others are active in many places on the org. Maybe that's why it feels so slow to me.

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

It is only turn four. Can't expect to much to happen by now. :shrug:, Many people don't have a reason to take the save, and there is not that much to talk about in the council.

Things will heat up when something unexpected happens :yes:

[GeneralHankerchief]

Speaking from experience, you need to allow some time for plots to formulate and to come to fruition. This is a delicate process, but once it's done I guarantee you things will appear to move very fast indeed. :yes:

[Vladimir]

Oh no doubt. Especially when the Elephant Man is revealed. :laugh4:

It will cause quite a stir.

[Ramses II CP]

Yeah, I'm doin' my part to stir up trouble. :yes:

:egypt:

[TinCow]

I admit that I am currently distracted by RL business combined with a game I'm currently playing in the Gameroom. I'm also avoiding starting anything serious IC at the moment because I am going to be on vacation from Sept 3rd through the 18th. During that time I expect to be online very, very rarely and won't have the time to write anything significant or access the save. My activity and involvement level will increase after I get back.

[AussieGiant]

A couple of admin points.

* Unfortunately I'm off to Berlin with my girlfriend tonight until Sunday. I didn't get to the save last night as we had a work dinner and it ended late. I was paying :beam:

There will be a delay until Sunday night so apologies in advance.


* I'm going to refrain from retraining BGs from now on.

We didn't in did in previous games as they are powerful and second because they replenish over time.

And lastly, because they retraining cost is so low.

Cheers
AG

[OverKnight]

Sure you don't want to get the plague again AG? :laugh4: The Imperial Secretariat is ready to run the show.

[_Tristan_]

:birthday2: :balloon2: :balloon: :balloon2: Happy Birthday, deguerra !!! :balloon: :balloon2: :balloon: :birthday2:

:belly::belly:


:cheerleader::cheerleader:


:elephant: :elephant:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

What Tristan just said! :2thumbsup:

Happy Birthday deguerra!!:balloon2:

[AussieGiant]

Deg, don't get arrested and have a great birthday.

OK, I'd prefer to just wait until Sunday. :beam:

[Ramses II CP]

I'm content to wait, it'll give me time to wrap up the wedding coop I've been working on with the guys. (Promise I'm working on it!)

:egypt:

[AussieGiant]

I'm about to sign off in 40 minutes.

I know of at least two stories that need to be posted around this time chronologically. That should give you all something to chew on.

[Ituralde]

I'm back from Scotland. It rained a lot, who expected that. And it was awesome!!!
Saw some nice medieval castles it really got me in the mood to play on.

Unfortunately I will still be limited for the next week though. I'm going to my girlfriend's mum who decided to dith her old telephone provider before making sure the new one was in place. So no internet there for me. I'll catch up on the reading though. See you in a week or so!

[AussieGiant]

Ok back.

Will have the next report and save up in a few hours.

[Northnovas]

Well I am back from the Maritimes and it didn't rain one day in 2 weeks. It was awesome! I finally had the summer weather I have been waiting for since June. I left just as Bill was showing up. It's great to have sunny days in the summer and not the overcast of November skies in July! :no:

Will do some reading to catch up and start to participate! :2thumbsup:

[AussieGiant]

Good to see you back NN!!

Ramses, mate, you're holding up prize winning stories by taking 5 days to respond!!:egypt:

Can you step on the gas? We have stories to publish that are waiting on you fella. :beam:

-EDIT-

Of course all that is mute now that you have responded Ramses ;-)

[Ituralde]

Well I am back from the Maritimes and it didn't rain one day in 2 weeks. It was awesome! I finally had the summer weather I have been waiting for since June. I left just as Bill was showing up. It's great to have sunny days in the summer and not the overcast of November skies in July! :no:

Will do some reading to catch up and start to participate! :2thumbsup:

The way it looks right now I at least have one week of sunny hot weather in front of me. That should make up for the expected rain! :2thumbsup:

[Andres]

Happy Birthday, TinCow ~:cheers:

[AussieGiant]

Jees, another year TC. Getting old mate.

Have a good one.

:2thumbsup:

[deguerra]

:balloon2::balloon2: :birthday2:

[TinCow]

Yeesh... 31. That whole 'better have kids before you're 35' deadline is approaching a lot faster than I'd prefer.
:eeeek:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Happy Birtday! :balloon2: :bow:

[GeneralHankerchief]

Happy birthday, and remember, try to be as irreverant as this unicorn (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwnL1HG6wcQ) today. Good luck! :medievalcheers:

[Ramses II CP]

Happy Birthday! You know it's really about the *wife* not being 35 yet, yes? Male, err, reproductive quality carries on reasonably well even into the late 40s. My wife just turned 35 and I'm really hoping we get to pop out another one this year.

I replied! I caught myself up in trying to write too much, and had to cut it! I'm back in the saddle though (And I'm going to take the save when I get a few minutes today). My daughter starting Kindergarten has thrown everything out of whack with my schedule. :laugh4:

:egypt:

[TinCow]

Happy Birthday! You know it's really about the *wife* not being 35 yet, yes? Male, err, reproductive quality carries on reasonably well even into the late 40s. My wife just turned 35 and I'm really hoping we get to pop out another one this year.

My wife is 13 days older than me, so no help there.

[Vladimir]

Yeesh... 31. That whole 'better have kids before you're 35' deadline is approaching a lot faster than I'd prefer.
:eeeek:

What? 35? Holy crap.

[TinCow]

What? 35? Holy crap.

Apparently the risk of birth defects starts going up after that point.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Apparently the risk of birth defects starts going up after that point.

Hm, interesting. My mom had me when she was 36 (conceived as well as delivered), and I turned out relatively all right. Best of luck if that's the route you decide to choose. :yes:

[AussieGiant]

Mum had me when she was 33 and my brother when she was 36.

It's all good hear...at least that is what they tell me. :dizzy2:

And chaps...I'm going to take the save tonight, so any movement needs to get done soonish.

[ULC]

How do you people manage to make me feel too young, in everyway?

Anyway, happy birthday TC! :balloon2:

[Ramses II CP]

The risk of birth defects, statistically, rises more sharply after 35. Women have an automatic amnio-centesis (Spelling?) when they become pregnant past 35, a procedure which carries it's own very slight risks, to test for them. Of course modern medicine being what it is the risk is still quite miniscule, but until you have kids of your own you won't understand the meaninglessness of 'small' risks and playing the odds.

We're friends with a family whose youngest has spina bifida. He's a wonderful child and I mean no disrespect to him when I say that I would do almost anything to reduce my own child's risk factors for his defect.

:egypt:

[Ramses II CP]

Mum had me when she was 33 and my brother when she was 36.

It's all good hear...at least that is what they tell me. :dizzy2:

And chaps...I'm going to take the save tonight, so any movement needs to get done soonish.

Argh! I wish I'd had time this morning. Pool trip this afternoon. I want to resolve Valencia, maybe I'll have time when the save returns. If not I suppose it can wait another season... as long as the bloody English stay patient.

:egypt:

[AussieGiant]

Save is back Ramses.

if you have time give it a go.

Otherwise I'll take the save back for the Seneschal work in a few hours.

[Ramses II CP]

Fifteen minutes before I leave, don't think I want to try to fight it that fast. I'll pick it back up in about 2.5 hours if it's still open, otherwise don't sweat it.

:egypt:

[AussieGiant]

Ok I'd like to go to bed in about 40 minutes. I'm not sure if you will both be fast enough.

[Ramses II CP]

Let's see how fast I can get Valencia. I have time now. :yes:

:egypt:

[Vladimir]

Can I get an OOC explanation of this unexpected turn of events?

[Ramses II CP]

The King attacked the Germans to expel them from French territory, which is perhaps unexpected but well within his legal powers. Of course the Council is likely to raise all kinds of **** about it.

:egypt:

[Vladimir]

Yea. The IC announcement was short on details. I guess the benefit of being king is that you don't have to explain yourself. ~;p

[OverKnight]

Yearrgh, this could get interesting. Got to find a bridge or mountain to fight from, just like back in the day.

[Zim]

Happy Birthday TinCow!

I'm back from my own birthday weekend. Got to take a trip, spend time with family, and learn the fear that comes from riding through rapids in what is essentially an inflatable canoe. Good times.

[Cecil XIX]

Happy Birthday, Tincow!

[GeneralHankerchief]

Wow, a ruler of a nation using royal prerogative to declare war on a nation that has incurred on his own territory but not actually attacked anything? I don't think we have any precedent for that! :shocked: :laugh4:

[OverKnight]

I, for one, am shocked, shocked that such a thing would occur. . .without the help of a Duke.

[AussieGiant]

Don't look at me!!

He's gone and done this all by himself. The lunatic. Have you seen some of the stacks they have?

Did the HRE get buffed before we started?

If the English come knocking I might have just killed myself and Andres. :sweatdrop:

[OverKnight]

Considering the Germans have dismounted knights, I think they've been buffed. It seems too early to have them legitimately.

Edit: My previous comment responding to GH wasn't aimed at Alain. It was a reference to Otto von Kassel and his declaration of war, sponsored by Heinrich, on the Papacy from KotR.

[AussieGiant]

Thanks for the clarification OK :egypt:

And yes when I saw Dismounted Knights in the English stack I was surprised. Seeing them in the HRE stack was even more concerning.

[OverKnight]

Ah subborning the Will of the Diet, those were good times (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=1466647#post1466647).

[AussieGiant]

I'm going to whip home after work today and get 1087 finished and then open the save for the next turn.

[Ituralde]

Don't start all the fun without me! :beam:

[Ignoramus]

Just in case anyone asks, Gaspard started the battle, and the king came in as reinforcements. I checked all the rules, and it doesn't appear to violate any of them. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[AussieGiant]

So what is the situation?

Do I rush home now and take the save ending 1087 or do you want me to wait for another 5 hours or so?

[AussieGiant]

Answering my own question.

OK has the save.

I'm off to the movies to see Inglorious Bastards and have some food. I'll come back tonight and lack down 1087.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Great movie. I'm planning to see it again tonight.

[ULC]

Quick question - Inglorious Bastards versus District 9?

I'm heading up to the mall nearby to bother my uncle and see a movie, was wondering which would be best to see this week, has I only have the money to see one.

[econ21]

Quick question - Inglorious Bastards versus District 9?

Personal taste. For what it's worth, I have no interest in Inglorious Bastards - Tarantino lost me after Pulp Fiction, and turning WW2 into a violent cartoon just feels wrong on many levels. Having read Lemur's Frontroom thread, I am very intrigued by District 9. The short it originated from was excellent - if the movie comes close to that, it will be very good.

[ULC]

Personal taste. For what it's worth, I have no interest in Inglorious Bastards - Tarantino lost me after Pulp Fiction, and turning WW2 into a violent cartoon just feels wrong on many levels. Having read Lemur's Frontroom thread, I am very intrigued by District 9. The short it originated from was excellent - if the movie comes close to that, it will be very good.

Hmmm...what was the short? Do you have a link?

[TinCow]

Haven't seen Inglorious Basterds, but District 9 is indeed an excellent film. Very enjoyable, and surprisingly good special effects considering the budget. I highly recomment it. :yes:

[econ21]

Hmmm...what was the short? Do you have a link?

The link (to "Alive in Jo'burg") is in the first post of Lemur's thread:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=116645

[GeneralHankerchief]

With Inglourious Basterds, you know what you're getting, because it's a standard Tarantino film. It's divided into five separate chapters, with the storylines (violently) converging in the fifth. Lots of extended dialogue, really brutal violence, and several "Oh *#%!" moments. Eclectic soundtrack and pretty good acting (especially from the Nazi lead).

[ULC]

The link (to "Alive in Jo'burg") is in the first post of Lemur's thread:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=116645

Wow - I am floored - District 9 it is :beam:

[ULC]

Econ, I suggest you warm up those dueling rules, particular the variety where the opponents try to kill each other :laugh4:

[TinCow]

Econ, I suggest you warm up those dueling rules, particular the variety where the opponents try to kill each other :laugh4:

:yes:

[Cecil XIX]

Oh man, you guys should have checked to see if there was anyone online who could referee right there. Than you really could have had the duel in the tavern!

[ULC]

Oh man, you guys should have checked to see if there was anyone online who could referee right there. Than you really could have had the duel in the tavern!

We were hoping econ was...:sweatdrop:

[TinCow]

Heh, I'd actually prefer a couple days before we do it. Gaeten has a huge advantage over Christophe in dueling stats. If Christophe is going to kick it, I really need to at least finish his backstory first. :laugh4:

[Vladimir]

Oh, ya...the HRE is #1 in military strength. Enjoy.

:wall:

Maybe I should have said "Oh, ja..."

[econ21]

Yikes, a duel to the death already? :sweatdrop:

I should be able to referee it, although Zim and/or theFlax might prefer to do it as GMs. In terms of timing, I think two days (Thursday pm) sounds about right. Much later and too much time might have passed in game. All you need is to pencil in a one hour slot when all parties are on line, that should be time enough.

If I am refereeing it, I am free any day of the week. I tend to get tied up around dinnertime (5-9pm UK time), but am pretty free to oversee things most other times.

[TinCow]

Thursday evening will be fine for me. I'll devote some time to writing this evening so that I can get everything up by then.

[ULC]

Thursday is fine for me as well, either before 3:30 or after 5:00 EST.

[Cecil XIX]

Oh, ya...the HRE is #1 in military strength. Enjoy.

:wall:

Maybe I should have said "Oh, ja..."

Man, I'm looking forward to this. I know the original six of 'King of the Romans' are lurking around, though with different portraits. Lots of RP possibilities there.

I'm also reminded that in KotR we never finished conquering the French, did we? I hope the reverse is true in KotF.

[Vladimir]

A bridge defense is nice. However, if you have limited troops, no artillery, and are forced to siege, a fort to defend your flanks is a good option.

[Ramses II CP]

Holy smokes, did the LTC AI just relieve a siege in a reasonably intelligent fashion? Good luck OK.

:egypt:

[AussieGiant]

Holy smokes, did the LTC AI just relieve a siege in a reasonably intelligent fashion? Good luck OK.

:egypt:

Yes it came right in to prevent the situation from getting worse. If the bloody AI gets too smart this might be a short game. :beam:

The only saving grace is the 3/4 English stack near Caernarvon buggered off. :sweatdrop:

[Vladimir]

It's still a computer program but it's fairly good at attacking a stationary threat.

[econ21]

Man, I'm looking forward to this. I know the original six of 'King of the Romans' are lurking around, though with different portraits. Lots of RP possibilities there.

I know. Sorry, OK, but I am rooting for Prince Henry in this fight. Do you want to do a multiplayer battle? :wink:


Thursday is fine for me as well, either before 3:30 or after 5:00 EST.

Shall we say 5.00 EST on Thursday for the duel? If Zim or theFlax want to referee it instead, I have absolutely no objection - otherwise, I'm up for it.

[TinCow]

Shall we say 5.00 EST on Thursday for the duel? If Zim or theFlax want to referee it instead, I have absolutely no objection - otherwise, I'm up for it.

I'm still at work at that time, so that's no good for me. The earliest I will be available is 6:30pm EST.

[Cecil XIX]

Holy smokes, did the LTC AI just relieve a siege in a reasonably intelligent fashion? Good luck OK.

:egypt:

Why so surprised? You were on the receiving end of the same thing in the V&V Test PBEM, remember? Didn't do the AI any good, of course, but I thought it was still a better effort than what we're used to.


I know. Sorry, OK, but I am rooting for Prince Henry in this fight. Do you want to do a multiplayer battle? :wink:

Now *there's* a way to curb early expansion!

[Ramses II CP]

Good point Cecil, but we didn't get quite far enough into that for me to be sure it was a consistent behavior and not an early turn aberration. I am still impressed.

:egypt:

[econ21]

The earliest I will be available is 6:30pm EST.

That would be fine by me - let's say 6.30pm EST Thursday unless we hear otherwise.

[ULC]

FEI - I am doing this because I screwed up with Gaetan in the beginning and intended to find a suitable way to kill him off instead of the random deaths that TC assigns. I am also not into the game for some reason, and decided to stir things up.

Also, being in a rotten mood does not help. But what is done is done, and it's really hard to care. At least Ramses gets to show how much Prince Louis is "noble".

[Vladimir]

Come on, you have a great character. This game is supposed to be fun and improve your mood. Hang in there! :balloon2: :beam:

[ULC]

Come on, you have a great character. This game is supposed to be fun and improve your mood. Hang in there! :balloon2: :beam:

I have a unique character, not a great one, and this is not a period for philosophical outspoken individuals.

[Vladimir]

Oh that's a lousy excuse. Make it so! :charge:

[Ramses II CP]

Oh the Prince is noble all right, in every classical sense of the word... you know, all the real, political, practical ones that have nothing to do with chivalry and everything to do with being born to power and not earned it. :laugh4:

Unfortunately for Gaetan he's also got the intelligent trait. I'd play him rather a lot differerently without that.

:egypt:

[ULC]

Oh the Prince is noble all right, in every classical sense of the word... you know, all the real, political, practical ones that have nothing to do with chivalry and everything to do with being born to power and not earned it. :laugh4:

Unfortunately for Gaetan he's also got the intelligent trait. I'd play him rather a lot differerently without that.

:egypt:

Maybe non of you are getting it, but :shrug: - I am done, kaput, not playing anymore, asked to suicide, drown in the channel, be nonexistent.

Good bye, good night, and good luck.

[Cecil XIX]

Maybe non of you are getting it, but :shrug: - I am done, kaput, not playing anymore, asked to suicide, drown in the channel, be nonexistent.

Good bye, good night, and good luck.

It sounds like you feel the way I felt during Armatos' lifetime, so you have my sympathies. There's certainly something to be said for taking a break to recharge your batteries so you can come back later, which is what I hope you do.

But please, please let their be an honest duel-to-the-death. Take up House Aquitaine's challenges and slaughter your way through them, if you can. It's too good to just be left hanging.

[econ21]

Maybe non of you are getting it, but :shrug: - I am done, kaput, not playing anymore, asked to suicide, drown in the channel, be nonexistent.

That's a shame - I am sorry to see you go. I am sure you will be welcome back if you change your mind.

[ULC]

It sounds like you feel the way I felt during Armatos' lifetime, so you have my sympathies. There's certainly something to be said for taking a break to recharge your batteries so you can come back later, which is what I hope you do.

But please, please let their be an honest duel-to-the-death. Take up House Aquitaine's challenges and slaughter your way through them, if you can. It's too good to just be left hanging.

I left it up to Zim - I don't care eitherway, and no, I am not sure I will be returning, and will pull a PK to make sure that happens if I must. My head is not into this type of game at all, and I should have listened to TC way back when when he told me to quit.

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

I might be on Thursday around 6, so perhaps if the first duel is a lose for TinCow I can literally jump in and we can have the second duel consecutively. if not then I will be gone from Thursday till the afternoon Saturday. :yes:

[OverKnight]

Sorry, OK, but I am rooting for Prince Henry in this fight. Do you want to do a multiplayer battle? :wink:

I wish I could say I gave Prince Henry a noble death, but he fled after his BG was reduced to four men. He died off screen as part of the failed sally mechanic. :no: My apologies.

He fought well, but should have gotten to the battle a bit quicker though he did finish off one of my spear militia units.

If it's any comfort, you could go find Otto von Tirol (nee Kassel) and take his head. :laugh4:

Morbid question, but does anyone know who Dieter von Magdeburg would have been in KotR?

Looks like there's some other stuff going on, I'll get to it once at work.

[Cecil XIX]

Morbid question, but does anyone know who Dieter von Magdeburg would have been in KotR?

I know that Mandorf, Leopold and Heinrich have the same names, so it's either the new Dietrich von Saxony or one of the many new generals that the Reich has summoned to oversee it's many provinces. I'm guessing the latter.

Also, sorry to see you go YLC. It's always a sad day when such an experienced member leaves.

[OverKnight]

Took a look at the HRE early start campaign: Yup, Dieter's a redshirt. Otto has the same name too, I was thinking of Stainless Steel not LTC.

Though they did switch up avatar pics, Otto has Heinrich's face. . .very odd.

[Cecil XIX]

Yeah, Mandorf has Otto's face. Don't know why.

[Ramses II CP]

I hope this goes without saying, but I hold IC communication completely distinct from OOC. I am not in any way personally disturbed or upset by Gaetan's statements and I wish you only the best in this game or any other game where we meet YLC. Your contributions here will be missed.

That being said, the Prince is a bully; an entitled, commanding, uncompromising bully, who is convinced God himself personally appointed him to become King of France someday and IC he is going to exert his influence to that effect fully. I know PK was pretty upset that I played Fritz against his female character in much the same way when I joined KotR, but he and I worked it out in the end.

Vissa was my way of atoning for Fritz, I dunno what I'm going to have to play to atone for Louis. :laugh4:

:egypt:

[GeneralHankerchief]

I'm already working on something with Heinrich should he pop up. Please at least inform me beforehand if you plan to kill him so he can get a word in. :bow:

[OverKnight]

Good thought GH. econ, do you want a copy of the battle report before it goes out so you can add something?

Again, I'm sorry I offed the mirror, mirror version of your former avatar. But he was clearly evil, he had a goatee.

[econ21]

econ, do you want a copy of the battle report before it goes out so you can add something?

No thanks - it would be too sad. Well thought, btw.

I am just wondering - have we deprived HRE of its only castle? It might make for a duller war.

[Ramses II CP]

Don't they have that one in the mountains still?

:egypt:

[AussieGiant]

You're a machine OK. Heroic Victory...pha.

[OverKnight]

Yup, Innsbruck, my old stomping ground.

Also, there are large German armies swarming around, so I'm not shedding any tears for them yet by taking Staufen. To be honest it was a bit of a desperation move on my part.

They'll most likely get it back soon enough.

[AussieGiant]

We will see what happens next.

I will take the save back later tonight GMT +1 and get the new turn started.

Should be interesting.

[OverKnight]

Hopefully it'll look like this:

https://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb88/douglaslain/staufen/pstauaftermath.jpg

My favorite pic from the battle. Report should be up within the day, I'm a bit tired at the moment.

[AussieGiant]

Bloody hell.

[Ituralde]

I'm back. At least a bit more. I will have more regular access to the internet but still won't be able to look at the saves directly. I would have preferred to wait, but with the current situation my character just can't stand aside. So I will be more active. Just don't expect full participation from me just yet. That will come during the next week.

See you on the battlefield! :2thumbsup:

[AussieGiant]

Not a lot of action or discussion going on in the Council thread.

That will leave me with some wide scope to work with this turn regarding negotiations with the English.

I'm thinking of a two for one deal if I can not sell Caernarvon by itself.

[Ramses II CP]

Err, by the way, before I can decline the adoption and move my House's avatars I need to know what the resolution of the tax issue at Zaragosa is. :yes:

The Seneschal can make the move for me if the tax issue is resolved properly, but it'd need the King agreeing to set the taxes to low as Zaragosa officially belongs to him at the moment.

:egypt:

[Ignoramus]

Just to let everyone know, I'll be away for the next three days, so if anyone wants to contact the Order, please do so through econ, who is Lieutenant of the Order.

[AussieGiant]

As long as Tristan sends me the tax issues....

in fact...Tristan can you update your SOT with all the provinces we have taken so I can set them correctly.

-EDIT-

I will take the save tonight.

[AussieGiant]

What happens if a province is sold, do all the avatars and regiments in it get moved to a French province or just suddenly find themselves in someone elses territory?

[GeneralHankerchief]

I'll be out of town until Sunday for a wedding. Not sure whether I'll have internet or not.

[AussieGiant]

Ramses,

Louis has an adoption can you please address this in the save or let me know.

[AussieGiant]

Ok we have an issue. I just moved Econ and YLC characters out of Bruges and put them with the King, the game put the city on auto manage mode. It went red faced and I can not do anything but select the various global policies.

This will make Bruges rebel if it can not be solved.

[econ21]

...the game put the city on auto manage mode.

That's odd. Have you tried going to options and clicking manage all settlements (or whatever it is called)?

On the adoptions, is there any point accepting more avatars if we have no players waiting for one? We gave ourselves so many recruitable generals at the start of the game, I would have thought we should turn new generals down (except for sons coming of age). I am wondering if the birth rate of our existing generals depends on how many we already have (ie if there is a cap on generals). If it does, presumably we'd rather have babies spawning for our existing generals than adopt playerless generals.

[Ramses II CP]

I expect I'll be getting all the adoptions until my line is filled up, and you can be sure I'll be rejecting them all.

AG I'm pming you about the adoption and save matters.

:egypt:

[AussieGiant]

replied Ramses,

Econ I'll give it a shot.

[AussieGiant]

Econ. problem solved thanks.

But Bruges will turn red and possibly revolt if I move you and YLC character out.

[OverKnight]

Ok we have an issue. I just moved Econ and YLC characters out of Bruges and put them with the King, the game put the city on auto manage mode. It went red faced and I can not do anything but select the various global policies.

This will make Bruges rebel if it can not be solved.

A few times when I was Chancellor or Megas, I got a save back and some settlements were set to auto-manange, the little cog in the settlement name on the map. I don't think anyone manually changed it, it may be a result of swapping the save around between versions of M2 on different systems.

I switched auto-manage off where ever I found it, easy to see from the campaign map, and that took care of it.

[econ21]

With Zim's and TCs approval, I've taken the liberty of writing a story to cover YLCs exit from the game. YLC told Zim to remove Gaeten from the game in whatever manner he likes. I know some people wanted to see a duel to the death, but I am leery about exiting players trying to take other avatars down with them as they quit. Also, I'm a little concerned about YLC and wanted to make Gaeten's departure from the PBM low key so we don't add to his troubles. :bow:

[_Tristan_]

Sorry to hear that... I hope the King's fury over Bruges had nothing to do with that...

[OverKnight]

I see the besiege a town from a bridge, or in this case a ford, and wait for the relief force tactic is being used again.

Can we call it the "Hugues GambitTM"? :laugh4: Hope it worked as well for you Tristan as it did for me. :2thumbsup:

[econ21]

I hope the King's fury over Bruges had nothing to do with that...

No, I don't think it was a major factor. I think YLC was a bit frustrated he could not fight battles, but my perception is that he pulled out of the PBM for reasons that were essentially unrelated to the game.

In passing, I should say that one thing I would like to use the Order for OOC is to as a mechanism to rotate the control of an army and a province between knights, so that more players get a chance to do stuff without having reached the normal rank required. For example, if the Order had a province, then the Captain could stand for Seneschal (currently restricted to landowners). Similarly, if it had infantry, then the Captain knight would have a chance to fight some battles. I know this will require time and some IC machinations - perhaps some rules changes if we want to be legalistic - but that's just a heads-up about the OOC thinking behind the Order. It's basically to give some players a chance to do stuff while the Kingdom is still too small to support most players having their own army and/or a province. (And I think keeping the Kingdom small for some time is a good thing for the challenge of the PBM.)


But Bruges will turn red and possibly revolt if I move you and YLC character out.

If Bruges is allocated to a House, then the governor might be happy to keep it from going red... [nudges Tristan]

[_Tristan_]

I see the besiege a town from a bridge, or in this case a ford, and wait for the relief force tactic is being used again.

Can we call it the "Hugues GambitTM"? Hope it worked as well for you Tristan as it did for me.


Worked nice, thank you... Scored an heroic victory and Antwerp :2thumbsup:

The butcher's bill :


https://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee86/badlieutenant_bucket/KotF/Antwerp/antwerpvict.jpg
https://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee86/badlieutenant_bucket/KotF/Antwerp/Antwerpstats.jpg

[OverKnight]

Nice work with the story econ, chivalry for the greater good.

Seems plausible, as a lot of the Varangians, AFAIK, in this period were Saxons displaced from England by the Norman take over. Why not an exiled Frenchman or two?

[_Tristan_]

Yes, truly nice work Econ...

And to YLC, you'll be missed... Come back soon... France will grow and the threats with it...

[OverKnight]

Worked nice, thank you... Scored an heroic victory and Antwerp :2thumbsup:

The butcher's bill :


https://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee86/badlieutenant_bucket/KotF/Antwerp/antwerpvict.jpg
https://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee86/badlieutenant_bucket/KotF/Antwerp/Antwerpstats.jpg

I was worried you didn't have enough spears for that battle, but I guess a skilled player like you with that much cavalry balanced things out. I look forward to the battle report.

Still, I am shocked, shocked that you didn't pull this off just using Philippe's BG. You're slipping. :laugh4:

[_Tristan_]

Yes it was a wash-rinse-repeat process... I'm surprised at how much friendly fire kills I suffered... Not enough micro-management of the missile units... Though the merc Xbows have done wonders, accounting for nearly a quarter of the kills by themselves...

My main fear was losing one of the other avatars... Hence the kills difference between those and Philippe

[Vladimir]

OK, you people have me feeling *highly* inadequate now. Either that or I'm in a state of disbelief over so many lopsided victories. I need to go back to fighting dirty against the computer.

[AussieGiant]

Don't worry Vlad (can I call you that), Tristan's another one of these freaks who can take down a full stack with a RBG unit and a blunt teaspoon.

Rather boring Tristan, I mean what's the point. :beam:

Econ, excellent write up and very well handled. :2thumbsup:

Taking the save to finish off the turn.

[deguerra]

Yeah just ignore Tristan :laugh4:

Nice work frenchie! :2thumbsup: :clown:

[Vladimir]

Exactly. A Frenchman has me questioning my masculinity. :laugh4: :2thumbsup:

[_Tristan_]

Thanks for the compliments... But I had good teachers in FactionHeir, Ramses II CP and Overknight (and some others too)...

Never underestimate the chauvinism of the French... :france: FTW

[AussieGiant]

Are you on a personal crusade or something Tristan? :balloon2:

[_Tristan_]

:smg: Paying back the Germans for WWII :surrender:

[Vladimir]

Preemptive payback. :2thumbsup:

[OverKnight]

The inherent in game aggressiveness of Tristan coupled with the recruiting power of being King is a sight to behold.

Speaking of crusades AG, you have obviously have your own issues with Celts considering your goal to be Edward Longshanks and Oliver Cromwell all rolled into one. After Dublin, are you going to bust up Scotland and go for the Gaelic Trifecta? :laugh4:

[_Tristan_]

The inherent in game aggressiveness of Tristan coupled with the recruiting power of being King is a sight to behold.


True, but I cannot thank enough the Order players for trusting me with their avatars... I know what it means to most in terms of involvement in the game ant time devoted to create those characters.

[_Tristan_]

I've just noticed that the Queen died last turn (1089)... Will have to write something about that...

[Ramses II CP]

Oh man, we'll have to have a royal funeral in the midst of our war eh? Have to think about how Louis would react to that.

I won't take any credit for teaching people about tearing up AI armies! For me, anyway, it all goes back to the speed rush guys and those challenges the Ghazette ran long, long ago. I need to write up Valencia sometime. The Jinettes and El Cid combined with my haste did some significant damage.

:egypt:

[OverKnight]

As the forces of France gird themselves for war and a climatic battle, they look up from their grim preperations. The sun is being consumed by shadow, an eclipse! A harbinger of doom. All the frenetic activity grinds to a halt as the world is consumed in noonday darkness.


So I guess the forum is up and running again barring another calamity.

[Vladimir]

Freaky. I thought we got hit hard again.

[AussieGiant]

how are we able to completely smash these stacks with cavalry?

I thought this mod toned down cavalry power and made spears pretty effective against foot knights and cavalry?

[_Tristan_]

Truely, spears are more effective... In the last battle I fought, I incurred 50% losses to the BG of Philippe, something which wouldn't have happened in vanilla or SS.

But if you keep to the basics concerning handling of heavy cav, you should still get these awesome results...

[Ibn-Khaldun]

how are we able to completely smash these stacks with cavalry?

I thought this mod toned down cavalry power and made spears pretty effective against foot knights and cavalry?

Actually, currently those stacks have been defeated by bodyguard units which are stronger than regular cavalry.

[AussieGiant]

Actually, currently those stacks have been defeated by bodyguard units which are stronger than regular cavalry.

Crap. Can't wait until these RBG's start to thin out as we expand a bit.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I actually can't wait until the first player loses his avatar in battle(commanded by him). :beam:

[AussieGiant]

I actually can't wait until the first player loses his avatar in battle(commanded by him). :beam:


Or commanded by another. That usually starts to see a few refusals of participation.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Btw, where have this "Save my LotR avatar" thread thingy gone?

Edit: Found it..

[AussieGiant]

I assume we are knocking back the request for Constance's hand in marriage?

Tristan? :inquisitive:

[TinCow]

I've mentioned this several times in other places before, but just so that everyone is aware, I will be out of the country on vacation from September 3rd through September 18th. I may have internet access during that time, but it will be sporatic at best and it won't be high on my priority list in any case. Please excuse Christophe's IC absense during this time.

Please consult Zim if there are any moderator-related issues while I am gone.

[GeneralHankerchief]

I hope it's as fun as your Rome trip last year, TinCow. :2thumbsup:

[Ramses II CP]

how are we able to completely smash these stacks with cavalry?

I thought this mod toned down cavalry power and made spears pretty effective against foot knights and cavalry?

If you charge spears head-on in SS even your bodyguard is going to get torn up... if you pin them, or distract them, or scatter their formation your charge will carry you through without much pain.

Other than spears most everything else falls just as easily in LTC as in vanilla to bodyguard units. I would suggest that we limit the number of them we can have in a stack, but that's unlikely to be very effective. You can accomplish with 2 everything you can do with more, but slower, and as long as you have some infantry you can accomplish with 1 all the same stuff as well, just slower and riskier yet. Morale is essentially unchanged in LTC (I posted this when we considered mods) and manipulating morale is what allows us to win massive victories because the AI has no defense.

There are two basic cures to the dominance of BGs, high morale AP units (There are probably none in the game at the moment) or the Pike and Gunner combo of the late period. Stacks heavy with quality crossbowmen, ala Milan, can be a slower as well.

DFKs and other high end knights are useless, as are 95% of the available melee cavalry (The non-AP kind), almost all archers (The non-English kind), and any militia troops.

:egypt:

[AussieGiant]

If you charge spears head-on in SS even your bodyguard is going to get torn up... if you pin them, or distract them, or scatter their formation your charge will carry you through without much pain.

Other than spears most everything else falls just as easily in LTC as in vanilla to bodyguard units. I would suggest that we limit the number of them we can have in a stack, but that's unlikely to be very effective. You can accomplish with 2 everything you can do with more, but slower, and as long as you have some infantry you can accomplish with 1 all the same stuff as well, just slower and riskier yet. Morale is essentially unchanged in LTC (I posted this when we considered mods) and manipulating morale is what allows us to win massive victories because the AI has no defense.

There are two basic cures to the dominance of BGs, high morale AP units (There are probably none in the game at the moment) or the Pike and Gunner combo of the late period. Stacks heavy with quality crossbowmen, ala Milan, can be a slower as well.

DFKs and other high end knights are useless, as are 95% of the available melee cavalry (The non-AP kind), almost all archers (The non-English kind), and any militia troops.

:egypt:

What to do you mean 95% of high end knights are useless?

[_Tristan_]

I think he meant High-end foot knights.

And Ramses, I'd disagree with your statement that meeting spears head-on in either LTC or SS would get a BG torn up. There is a trick to master that enables you to charge spears head on without almost no casualties.

This is what I've been doing since KotR... with Hugo, Methodios and now Philippe. In the last battle, I tore through 2 full complement units of armoured sergeants plus some other and lesser spears, losing half the bodyguard but killing about 300 spearmen...

[TinCow]

I hope it's as fun as your Rome trip last year, TinCow. :2thumbsup:

Me too. This year it's the English and Welsh countrysides, mainly Cotswolds, Cornwall, and Wales. It's been 8 years since I was last in the UK, so I'm looking forward to it. :2thumbsup:

[AussieGiant]

Sounds like the holiday will be great TC!!

I hope the weather holds for you.

Tristan. I've declined the wedding proposal by the way. The new save will be up as soon as the report is written.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I've declined the wedding proposal by the way.

You heartless man.. How could you do this to a poor girl! :no:

oh..

You meant in-game marriage proposal! :clown:

[AussieGiant]

You heartless man.. How could you do this to a poor girl! :no:

oh..

You meant in-game marriage proposal! :clown:

Indeed I am :balloon2:

[econ21]

There is a trick to master that enables you to charge spears head on without almost no casualties.

I may regret asking this, but what's the trick?

[_Tristan_]

The way I see it is simply to charge the line, pause on contact and order a withdrawal (by clicking to your starting position approximately...) then repeat as necessary...

It is all a question of timing... Too late and your men are in the melee where the spears get the higher hand, too early and you've lost your charge, not doing enough damage and getting tired in the process...

[AussieGiant]

The way I see it is simply to charge the line, pause on contact and order a withdrawal (by clicking to your starting position approximately...) then repeat as necessary...

It is all a question of timing... Too late and your men are in the melee where the spears get the higher hand, too early and you've lost your charge, not doing enough damage and getting tired in the process...

I see. :book:

Well that's a bit of a shame.

[_Tristan_]

A shame ? :shame:

I see no shame in this... I put it to the best use of cavalry possible...

Say you had mastery of archers would you have them shoot wide just for the sake of challenge or would you use their range to inflict the most casualties before impact on your line ?

Point to me what is shameful in what I did...

[Zim]

A shame that it circumvents one of the changes made in LTC to make the game harder, I'm guessing.

It just sounds like a trick to timing the charge-withdraw-charge cycle to me, something everyone does to a greater or lesser extent.

I'm sure the battles will get bloodier as we get spread out, myself. :yes:

[Ramses II CP]

If the spears are 'set' that shouldn't work in LTC Tristan, although I haven't actually tested it myself. A line of spears not in motion should cause a certain percentage of riders to catapult over their horses and die instantly on impact, HPs irrelevant, during a head on charge. More of the spears will die, especially due to the size of the King's BG, and in vanilla things were such that it rarely happened, but I thought that was fixed in LTC. Even the general is subject to that percentage, which is why I don't charge spears head on unless they're moving.

There are ways to finagle even that (Line up your charge so the general, who is always on one side of the formation, doesn't strike the front facing of the spears) but it's still quite a risk.

That is completely negated if the spears are in motion, which is usually simple enough to arrange, and the tactical AI in LTC is very little improved if at all.

I want to be clear that I am not an expert about this stuff, these are just my observations from playing.

Oh, and yes, 95% of all foot knights are utterly worthless in the AI's hands if you have heavy cavalry. Even light charge cavalry, or fast cavalry of any kind. I would massively prefer to face foot knights to spear militia if I have even two companies of cavalry in my stack.

:egypt:

[OverKnight]

I'd like to ask for an extension, if it ends up being needed, to the save period. Ideally, KnightnDay needs to join my stack outside Dijon before Cecil takes the save to attack. Depending on availability and such and since I didn't set the stack up until I was awake, we might need more than a 24 hour window.

Edit: In hindsight I should have asked for permission to move Thomas for this particular instance. My apologies.

[Vladimir]

Yes, if the spears are set you'll loose a lot of men on impact. Sometimes you loose just the general. There is nothing wrong with timing the impact and withdrawal. It sounds like good timing to me. I learn how the AI reacts and plan accordingly. This is the same thing.

[Ignoramus]

Back guys! It seems I've missed a lot!

[OverKnight]

Just standard stuff: An avatar getting bundled off to Constantinople, a war started under murky circumstances, Wales seized, a few heroic bridge battles and a kidnapped Princess. Nothing out of the ordinary.

[AussieGiant]

Yes indeed.

Nothing to see here;

"play on!"

[AussieGiant]

So I assume Cecil has pounded the HRE stack into smithereens? Perhaps losing 12 men in the process?

[OverKnight]

Geez AG, are you some sort of AI lover? Do you hate Freedom and Puppies too?

I'd suppose you'd be happy if we had all been slaughtered?

:clown:

[AussieGiant]

Geez AG, are you some sort of AI lover? Do you hate Freedom and Puppies too?

I'd suppose you'd be happy if we had all been slaughtered?

:clown:

Actually, it would be a somewhat refreshing change of pace.

:egypt:

[OverKnight]

Well if you want refreshing, feel free to lose a battle to the Irish. :laugh4:

[AussieGiant]

Well if you want refreshing, feel free to lose a battle to the Irish. :laugh4:

I'm not game enough to go over there with four units and try and win that.

Unless I'm missing something of course.

[AussieGiant]

I'm going to take the save back tonight and pick up the pace a little.

OK, was it grim or not so grim? Is Cecil another Tristan clone or are his Jedi powers not as strong in that part of the PBM family? :balloon2:

[OverKnight]

We took losses, my pristine archer companies got mussed up, around 50 effectives each left, and between the two battered spear companies, who already were bloodied pre-battle, I've got 90 spearmen.

I wasn't paying too much attention to Dijon, but they took losses as well.

On the very bright side, the Germans went poof I think and all the Avatars took minimal losses so mission accomplished.

There is a German army in range of Staufen and the bridge there, which is why I'm headed in that direction. This IS LORRAINE!

Er. . .I mean I'll see what I can do. :2thumbsup:

[OverKnight]

Here's a visual, I think the remnants of the German army actually retreated to Bern rather than poofing.

https://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb88/douglaslain/afterdijon.jpg

[Cecil XIX]

I'm going to take the save back tonight and pick up the pace a little.

OK, was it grim or not so grim? Is Cecil another Tristan clone or are his Jedi powers not as strong in that part of the PBM family? :balloon2:

I actually took losses in the triple digits, so I guess that does make me one of the weaker ones. :sweatdrop:

[OverKnight]

I lost over 200 at Staufen. This is digital war, pixels die. :laugh4:

[Ituralde]

Back with full internet. Of course that means I also have to learn a lot more with some final exams coming up, but at least now I can access the internet anytime I want to. Quite refreshing.

[Rowan]

As some of you might have noticed I haven't been very active lately. With work, school and kid taking my time I haven't had much energy left for KotF. I'm not prepared to retire just yet, though. Hopefully I'll catch up in a few days time and can even participate a bit, Alph still needs a house (wink wink, nudge nudge).

:juggle2:

[ULC]

:wall::wall::wall:

*reminds himself never to go to the ER*

I am sorry for my week long absence. The night I went off so harsh on myself and others, it was because of a severe and unexpected depression, a suicidal one at that, and I was forced to go to the ER, which landed me in the BSU.

I am now catching up and regretting everything that happened - TC was right, I was looking for an interesting storyline between de Perronne and Gaetan, but it was not supposed to end in death, but a direct confrontation between the Prince and Gaetan - however, my "feelings" got in the way and I screwed it up and myself over.

Sorry for the sudden intrusion, the Psychward just decided to release me today - if there is any hope of Gaetan coming back, I'll hope for it. If not, then I will have to be inventive and come with a new character, but it won;t feel quite as right.

Oh, Hi all.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Glad you're back, no matter what capacity. :bow:

[_Tristan_]

Glad to know you've come out on top... :sweatdrop:

Gaetan still has his place in the game... provided he can find a ship back from Constantinople... One that would land at a newly-conquered Marseille, conquered by the Prince I should say...:idea2:

This game can be a great way to shed some of our burdens and make-believe we are unbeatable...:knight:

[Ramses II CP]

As some of you might have noticed I haven't been very active lately. With work, school and kid taking my time I haven't had much energy left for KotF. I'm not prepared to retire just yet, though. Hopefully I'll catch up in a few days time and can even participate a bit, Alph still needs a house (wink wink, nudge nudge).

:juggle2:

Let me just find some time to write out Marseille and you'll hear something from Aquitaine Rowan. :2thumbsup:

The siege of Valencia battle report is up, though pretty much all the screenshots I took rushing through the battle were awful (I had the map up in all of them too, which annoys me).

Glad to have you back YLC, hope you're feeling better. :2thumbsup:

:egypt:

[Vladimir]

If you desperately need a character the AI is sending a lot of adoption requests to Louis. It's a shame we've had to turn them all down. There were a few gems.

[OverKnight]

Yay, one of the many Battles of Placeholder has been resolved! The Plains of Placeholder are as busy as Adrianople.

Just let me know when the others are complete so I can include them in the history. :whip:

[_Tristan_]

wrote the battle following the siege of Antwerp and almost finished the battle that started the war...

Writing the Epilogue...


Flanders battle report is posted (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2324910&postcount=11)

[econ21]

... if there is any hope of Gaetan coming back, I'll hope for it. If not, then I will have to be inventive and come with a new character, but it won;t feel quite as right.


Welcome back, YLC. The Gaetan avatar is still in the game, so I don't see any problem resuming playing with him. The story line that was written to explain his planned removal would be very easy to get out, as Gaetan did not leave voluntarily - literally jump ship or whatever. TC is away for a while, so there is no rush to resolve the de Peronne conflict. Having tried unsuccessfully to write Gaetan out, I feel some responsibility to help write him back in, so if you want to do any co-op story work about that, I'm up for it although the unresolved element is with the Aquitanians rather than Hermant.

To resolve the conflict with de Peronne/the Prince, there are a number of possibilities:
(a) tough it out, with duels etc. This could be resolved by a story with TC, rather than a die-driven duel (or by both). If you want to go this route, I would wait for TC and work with him.
(b) mend bridges with an apology - perhaps along the line of the King's "he's not himself" tack in the Council. Perhaps the King himself could oversee the reconciliation? If you want to go with this route, you could PM Tristan and maybe he could help out.
(c) I don't know if GH or theFlax could fit Gaetan's travels into their Constance abduction story line? Gaetan's assisting in that might be one way to reconcile with the Prince. If you want to go this route, try PMing GH.

The Order would be delighted to have Gaetan back if he could square things with the Prince.

[Vladimir]

The king may suspend the trial for the duration of hostilities then the whole issue will be "forgotten" over time. Perhaps the two could fight together against the Germans and form a bond? Often times fierce enemies become steadfast friends.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Hmm, there could possibly be an opening for YLC to involve himself in the Raynaud/Constance storyline, as writing this next bit is proving harder to do than I imagined (the final part of 2001 is coming to mind). However, we're still aiming to resolve things by the next Conseil session, which doesn't provide us much time.

[ULC]

Gaetan isn't one to apologize so much - his word is his word :laugh4:

Just as well - Gaetan will not be backing down from his duel with de Perronne.

Also, must mention this - Gaetan is a bit miffed at Hermant for drugging him with ALE - wine, it's forgivable to a Frenchman, but you had to choose ALE.

However, if Tristan is still around, I have need to discuss somethings with him pertaining to the Royal Family.

[TheFlax]

Welcome back YLC!

I'll second GH by saying that you're welcome to join in the Raynaud/Constance storyline.

[ULC]

Welcome back YLC!

I'll second GH by saying that you're welcome to join in the Raynaud/Constance storyline.

Err...I need help on Gaetan coming back, part of my story seems difficult to write properly. I have a 6 part storyline explaining Gaetan that I hope to get out before a lucky spearman gets to him :sweatdrop:

[econ21]

Err...I need help on Gaetan coming back, part of my story seems difficult to write properly. I have a 6 part storyline explaining Gaetan that I hope to get out before a lucky spearman gets to him :sweatdrop:

I've just PMd a proposal to you, GH and the Flax for a way back. I'm happy to help on writing that. Or contribute to another storyline if you prefer.

[_Tristan_]

However, if Tristan is still around, I have need to discuss somethings with him pertaining to the Royal Family.

Still around, yep...

I'm available to discuss matters with you via PM or MSN... Your choice..:yes:

[OverKnight]

wrote the battle following the siege of Antwerp and almost finished the battle that started the war...

Very cool. I'm particularly interested in how the war started. Not to cast doubt on his Majesty's version of events. . .but it's all a bit murky. :laugh4:

Ah poor Staufen, at least it's serving as a bit of a speed bump for the Germans. :shame:

edit:


Can anyone disprove my hypothesis that a character with 100% movement points at the end of a turn is more susceptible to acquiring negative traits? Maybe I'm confusing this with MTW.

I think so, particularly if the avatar is parked in an underdeveloped settlement. Hugues got "Ignorant" while waiting in Metz. I mean it fits his character, but still.

[Vladimir]

Thanks. Gontran had his eye on Bordeaux. Save that, his four chivalry and management skills are best for governing Toulouse. Still, he's too confident to sit around for too long.

[Ramses II CP]

Maybe we can get some peasant archers to cover for you, paid for by the ransom of Mandorf. :laugh4:

I do love that population growth % though!

:egypt:

[Vladimir]

:laugh4:

Peasant archers? That's perfect. I just learned today what "quiverfull (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quiverfull)" is and I'm sure Gontran would enjoy it. What a wonderful analogy. :2thumbsup:

I, err, I mean, Gontran, hates using certain prophylactics.

[_Tristan_]

Finally finished the battle report that started the war
(https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2322373&postcount=6)

[Ignoramus]

OverKnight: You'll have to undo that sally. Armies led by non-avatars have to be auto-resolved.

[OverKnight]

Hugues and his army were in the battle as reinforcements. I initiated the attack from Staufen to have the castle as the battle site.

If this is a problem, I can fall back to the last save.

Edit: I fought in a similar fashion relieving Adana (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1838000&postcount=258) in KotR.

[Ignoramus]

Mea culpa. I just saw the screenshot of the battle results in the Seneschal's thread, and it only list the Captain, not Hugues.

[_Tristan_]

There's still a problem with that battle but we can keep it all IC : OK initiate the battle with units from Staufen which belongs to the King's demesne and Philippe's SOT proscribes such usage of his units ("do not move").

But as I said all this can be solved IC... I see no true rules violation here, only a non-respect of Philippe's SOT

[OverKnight]

@ Igno: No worries, this is a grey area. If I wasn't facing horrible odds, I probably wouldn't have done it.

Edit:


There's still a problem with that battle but we can keep it all IC : OK initiate the battle with units from Staufen which belongs to the King's demesne and Philippe's SOT proscribes such usage of his units ("do not move").

But as I said all this can be solved IC... I see no true rules violation here, only a non-respect of Philippe's SOT

:oops: Ummm, they were going to die anyway? I hadn't even thought of that. :wall:

Bad vassal, no biscuit.

[Zim]

Staufen hasn't been the object of any edicts for conquest, has it? So while it awaits ratification any troops in it would belong to Hugues.

[OverKnight]

Unfortunately, having reviewed the rules, if this is true, there's not supposed to be any recruitment at an "unsanctioned" settlement before its ratification. The peasant archers of the garrison were recruited at Staufen.

So, either I've violated Tristan's SoT post, or I used an illegally recruited unit in the battle. I asked AG IC to recruit the unit so Staufen wouldn't be steam rolled and to slow the Germans. So if it hadn't been recruited, and the rule followed, Staufen would have fallen on the previous AI turn.

My brain hurts.


Edit:
The relevant passage:

(b). - Gaining and Losing Provinces: All conquered provinces must be ratified by an edict, which can be passed at the session before the conquest or be applied retroactively at the first session after. If a province is not ratified in this manner by the end of the very next session after it was made, it must be given away or abandoned. While a province is not ratified taxes must be set to the highest level possible and no recruitment can be made in that settlement. Any province conquered and ratified becomes part of the King's Demesne. At the time of conquest, the conquering noble can refuse to hand the province over to the King, but this puts him in a state of Civil War with the King. The King can be prevented from giving any province in the Demesne to another Noble by a two-thirds majority vote of the Council.

[_Tristan_]

OK, from my point of view, you're right in saying that the unit has been illegally recruited, though Staufen belongs to you.

So in fact Staufen should have fallen... This can still be corrected if we go back to the previous save and if we provoke a sally which results in a defeat...

I'll take Staufen out of my SOT...

[OverKnight]

So Staufen belongs to me, but it fell a turn ago?

Yay?

Let's see what Zim has to say. For now I've put spoiler tags around my Conseil comment after the battle since it may not have happened.

[AussieGiant]

I certainly realised that Staufen should not have had any troops recruited in it.

Ramses, called me on it and I said he can take it IC and we could thrash it out. I have a pretty good IC case to present. Subsequently that is as far as it went. :beam:

Now, having one of us play a battle where a non-avatar was leading, seems like bending our rule set to allow us to yet again thrash the AI.

I don't agree with that.

The last thing we need right now is to begin "greying" up things which then allow us to exploit our ability to reach incredible results on the battle field.

I mean it's about 20 to 1 casualty rates to date, which is why I'm also a little dubious with Tristan explaining how he charges head on into set spear units and wins causing total destruction.

I didn't make any further comment before after making my initial comment, but, are we trying to make this difficult for ourselves or not?

Because our actions seem inconsistent if we are in fact trying to make it difficult for ourselves. Of course it needs to be determined IF that is our aim.

If Tristan has the ability to use the "pause" button to effect this tactic so precisely, then my question would be.

If you were not to use the "pause" button, would you still engage in this tactic?

This is a moral debate and it's in good faith from me to simply ask questions which relate to what we are "about" in this game.

Are we power gaming? Are we getting too competitive amongst ourselves, are we trying to give the AI a fighting chance? Because if the AI presents absolutely no threat, at all, we might have some long term issues.

It goes towards playing ahead with the save as well. Are we doing this?

So, this should be interesting. :balloon2:

[OverKnight]

Yurgh. . .good points.

Well, let's revert to the last save then. I'm not going to argue since it turns out I'm on dubious ground to begin with. :juggle2:

I apologize for the inconvenience and for holding up the game.

AG, when you take the real save, could you move Hugues to the Moselle ford, the one south of Metz?

Edit: Zim still has the save, FYI.

[_Tristan_]

To refer to my use of the "pause" button, I use it somply because I'm no computer... I cannot compute in real time and click and I'm not the only one that is using the option seeing some of the screenshots in the battle reports thread...

Factionheir got lots of credit for his use of cavalry without anyone questioning how he achieved such outstanding results, so I find these "accusations" (for lack of a better word) a bit bitter to swallow...

Though some may argue it is just a question of "when" rather than "how"...

And about difficulty, the exact reason why I'm fighting the way I do is to do just that : give myself some challenge that I would not have with a full stack under my command... It is only my avatar I'm putting at risk there, or mostly...

And I think I've done everything I could to up the difficulty by slowing recruitment (Edict 1.1) or declaring war at the worst of times against one of te most powerful factions of the game...

[AussieGiant]

Hi Tristan,

I asked point blank how FH got his results. He never told me.

I think he realised I would have asked him why he finds it necessary to use a pause function to micro manage something that is certainly not a design of the game.

At least I'd like to get that out of the way.

I guess we will agree to disagree, I use the pause button because you are correct, I need to co-ordinate my units and it gets too hectic on many occasions.

What I do not do, is use it to achieve results that can only be accomplished by using it.

If you can pull if off not using the pause button then all power to you, but that would be much harder proposition I would assume as it requires the pause button to achieve.

If you could do it without using the pause button then it would draw massive amounts of your attention away from a full stack battle to achieve this...which would probably lead to other issues with the rest of the battle. This could be seen as an acceptable consequence of trying to achieve such results with cavalry.

So I am genuinely curious, can you do this without using the pause button? And what do you think your odds would be with, or without using the pause function as a comparison?

[_Tristan_]

I can do it without using the pause button and in fact do most times... It frankly depends on where the camera is pointing at the moment of the shock.

If it is placed behind the victims of the charge and I can send the charging unit right back, I won't use Pause... But if I have to turn the camera around to face an unoccupied section of the battlefield, then I'll use Pause...

I should never have answered Econ's question and explained how I did it... Being Frank doesn't pay...(pardon the pun)

[Zim]

Looks like Staufen should have fallen. Perhaps from an IC perspective we could pretend that peasant archers were recruited, but as the settlement had not been in French hands long they were disloyal and opened the gates...

[econ21]

I think the rules are pretty clear that a player can fight a battle started by a captain; the player just has to be "involved" rather than initiate the attack:

(c). - Battles: A player whose avatar leads an army that is involved in a battle will be expected to fight that battle. This will involve downloading the savegame of the battle, playing it and then uploading the resulting savegame. Uploading the post-battle save must be done within 48 hours of the pre-battle savegame being uploaded. If the deadline expires, the battle is autoresolved. If a player cannot fight a battle that is assigned to them, the battle may also be fought by any player whose avatar will also be present in the battle. Under no circumstances will a battle be fought by a player whose avatar is not present in the battle. If there is no player available to fight a battle, it must be autoresolved. If there are no allocated avatars involved in the battle at all, it must be autoresolved.

However, they are also pretty clear that we cannot recruit in provinces that are not ratified:


(b). - Gaining and Losing Provinces: All conquered provinces must be ratified by an edict, which can be passed at the session before the conquest or be applied retroactively at the first session after. If a province is not ratified in this manner by the end of the very next session after it was made, it must be given away or abandoned. While a province is not ratified taxes must be set to the highest level possible and no recruitment can be made in that settlement. Any province conquered and ratified becomes part of the King's Demesne. At the time of conquest, the conquering noble can refuse to hand the province over to the King, but this puts him in a state of Civil War with the King. The King can be prevented from giving any province in the Demesne to another Noble by a two-thirds majority vote of the Council.

Conquered rebel provinces can be regarded as ratified, but not German. I think this rule was supposed to represent "physics" rather than "politics" and to slow us down vs the AI. So I am not sure we should "play on" and deal with it in character. Staufen seems to be a prime case of where we are really stretching things to rush the AI - not even properly defending our conquests - so us taking a hit seems justified. I vote we back up before OKs move and delete the archer recruit.

BTW, I think by the rules Staufen is the King's unless OK refused to hand it over at the time of conquest. The timing matters here - we debated it and although there was disagreement, I think the rules as written reflect the onus on a "rebel" noble to come out and openly defy the King at the time of conquest rather play a waiting game.

[_Tristan_]

I vote we back up before OKs move and delete the archer recruit.

BTW, I think by the rules Staufen is the King's unless OK refused to hand it over at the time of conquest. The timing matters here - we debated it and although there was disagreement, I think the rules as written reflect the onus on a "rebel" noble to come out and openly defy the King at the time of conquest rather play a waiting game.

The first part is hardly doable as it would mean going back to the final save of 1092 and have most of us re-do our moves, including Ramses' fight against Mandorf (which would be shame, with those cool pics). Better to move Ok back and make a sally with the Staufen garrison, sally which is doomed to fail on auto-resolve thus handing Staufen on a platter to te Germans.


As to the second part, that is how I read the rules at first but Zim seemed to consider that the hand-over should be handled at the next council session and that until that time the province belonged to the conquering noble. Then it was either ratified and went to the King or became the start of a civil war, or was handed back to its rightful owner through lack of ratification.

Also, the way the sally situation was played (regardless of Staufen's ownership) is that I don't think we should allow the players to play battles initiated by captain-led stacks even if their avatars are brought in as reinforcements. Let them initiate those battles... Different from when an avatar is brought in as reinforcement through an AI assault on a captain-led stack... Then we should (and we did) allow for the avatar to play the battle...

[AussieGiant]

I agree with Tristan's points in his post above.

I realise now I should have not recruited at all, which means there would have been no siege for the Germans to conduct. Tristan's solution is the best "current" save solution.

The land allocation is also how I've been reading it and dealing with construction and recruitment, except of course Staufen.

I'd prefer us to have the player avatar lead the attack, therefore limiting us in some fashion.

@ Tristan, I am glad you were frank about the situation.

I might not agree with it, but certainly confirming you can pull if off without the pause button on occasion makes things a little more palatable.

I'd just prefer you didn't use the pause button at all to conduct this tactic. :yes:

-EDIT-

I wont get to the save until Friday early evening Swiss time so there will be some time for reorganising the save for everyone.

[Vladimir]

While I think the charge trick is neat it seems like we're getting a bit gamey. Is this the norm because Vladimir loves the ballista sally.

[AussieGiant]

While I think the charge trick is neat it seems like we're getting a bit gamey. Is this the norm because Vladimir loves the ballista sally.

wtf is the ballista sally?

[_Tristan_]

You don't want to know...

Some things are better left unsaid...:yes:

[AussieGiant]

You don't want to know...

Some things are better left unsaid...:yes:

I certainly have that thought flittering through my head Tristan :dizzy2:

I'd say the description would lead to statements I made regarding playing ahead with the save as well.

Still I have the ability to "know", and not use. :beam:

[Ituralde]

Having our sallying forces die seems to be the right decision at this junction. It's a learning process and nobody was hurt, so that should be the smoothest solution.

Concerning the gamey debate. I'd put my own position as leaning towards AG. I'm glad we haven't seen any single character take down entire cities as happened way too often for my taste in LotR, so I'm happy with that. Then again I don't mind people fighting the AI the best way they know how. There's a certain risk involved in Tristans tactic for example, and also a certain amount of skill. I'm sure I'd get my general slaugthered in no time that way. To each his own as long as it doesn't end up too lopsided it's fine by me.

And if the AI is no challenge there's always Civil War too! :evilgrin:

[econ21]

As to the second part, that is how I read the rules at first but Zim seemed to consider that the hand-over should be handled at the next council session and that until that time the province belonged to the conquering noble. Then it was either ratified and went to the King or became the start of a civil war, or was handed back to its rightful owner through lack of ratification.

OK, my bad. Re-reading the rules, I can see Zim's interpretation.


Also, the way the sally situation was played (regardless of Staufen's ownership) is that I don't think we should allow the players to play battles initiated by captain-led stacks even if their avatars are brought in as reinforcements.

I guess we need Zim's ruling on this, as I think the rules are ambiguous on this at present. In fact, now I can't even find in the rules how we decide which player fights the battle. I think we discussed it just before the game and agreed it was who the computer said commanded. That is fine for single stack battles, but leads to ambiguities in cases such as the now reversed Staufen sally. I agree there is a lot to be said for autoresolving Captain initiated attacks. We did not do that in KotR, but on reflection the main use of Captain initiated attacks seems to be exploit the weak (broken?) AI when facing a sally or to get around restrictions on historical army composition etc.


Factionheir got lots of credit for his use of cavalry without anyone questioning how he achieved such outstanding results, so I find these "accusations" (for lack of a better word) a bit bitter to swallow...

Though some may argue it is just a question of "when" rather than "how"...

And about difficulty, the exact reason why I'm fighting the way I do is to do just that : give myself some challenge that I would not have with a full stack under my command... It is only my avatar I'm putting at risk there, or mostly...

Sorry for opening a can of worms with my question about cavalry tactics. I was not making an accusation, just trying to understand the game mechanics. I never understood how Factionheir got the results he did with his cavalry (although until this PBM, it has never entered my mind to try to defeat whole armies with just one BG), so I was curious. I can understand withdrawing and re-charging to get the charge bonus. That just sounds like sound tactics. But is there something special about withdrawing on the moment of impact? Is it just a matter of min-maxing - allowing you to get one big hit on the spears and giving them at best only a little chance to hit back weakly at you? If that's all there is too it, it does not seem too much of an exploit, although I doubt in real life cavalry would be so precise.

I have a couple of follow up questions on game mechanics players might help me with:

(1) I always thought there were "reverse impact" casualties on charging cavalry (at least attacking spears frontally) - ie that cavalry lose extra men at the moment of impact. Is that people's experience too? Or is it just my imagination? If it you do lose cavalry on impact, surely that would raise the cost of repeatedly charging and withdrawing? Even if it were true, I guess the 2HPs of the BGs insulate you from that to some extent.

(2) I always thought braced spears negated the charge bonus of cavalry attacking them frontally. Is that true? If it is true, I can't see the charge and withdraw tactic having any benefit if applied frontally against them. If so, I guess FH and Tristan etc just avoid charging braced spears frontally. Or maybe it was only true in the older games (STW, MTW)?

Looking at the battle reports, my eyebrows do rise at seeing the King repeatedly leaving a decent army behind him to go and fight alone at 1-10 odds. It might be challenging for you, but it seems odd in character and out of character just brings home the feebleness of the AI. However, you can take that with a pinch of salt. I guess Philippe is just a bad ass (I have read historical accounts of a few knights defeating much larger numbers of foot). Players are free to play in the style they wish to. If we start telling each other what to do OOC, we will stop having fun. If I get a chance tonight, I may try out your tactics against the German remnants you mentioned in Flanders.

[_Tristan_]

I can understand withdrawing and re-charging to get the charge bonus. That just sounds like sound tactics. But is there something special about withdrawing on the moment of impact? Is it just a matter of min-maxing - allowing you to get one big hit on the spears and giving them at best only a little chance to hit back weakly at you? If that's all there is too it, it does not seem too much of an exploit, although I doubt in real life cavalry would be so precise.


Exactly... That's how I see it works... Been doing it since Methodios' times and with success...
You'll notice that my BG unit generally doesn't leave the field unscathed, nor does Philippe (who is two steps up the scars trait line...).

I'll agree that in RL there is no way a charge could be so precise but with so many other things ingame which would be different in RL, I don't think this matters much... Put it down to excellent command :yes:

To answer your questions, Econ :

1/ That may be true but differs on experience. Ramses seems to have observed this happening while I didn't notice it. All the casualties, Philippe's BG incurred were due to the withdrawal maneuver or simply remaining too long into the spears.

2/I don't know if spears negate the charge bonus but get a charge into braced spears (not pikes, mind you) and you'll still make a killing. A thing I try to avoid to the best of my abilities, still. I mostly try to get my charges when the spears are reforming or in movement, thus catching them "un-braced"...

As to Philippe going to fight by himself, the first battle was Reims (and was an IC ambush as detailed in the battle report), the second was fighting remnants of the Antwerp siege relief force, a task that Philippe thought was his alone.

I see him as a true warrior-king, intent on preserving the lives of his soldiers and putting his life on the line for that. As for OOC concerns, if you are amazed at my antics, I'm much more amazed by what Ramses or OK are able to accomplish...

Good luck in your German hunting...

[Ramses II CP]

A 'ballista sally' isn't all that bad, really, because anytime you sally against the AI you're abusing. The AI's sally behavior can best be described as: Pull back out of tower range, form up, and wait. Respond only to massive casualties or the loss of all ranged troops. It's the nature of the game that if you sally you are taking advantage of bad AI and you simply can't help it.

It's called a ballista (Or catapult, or any extra long range troops, or cannon towers) sally because if you have a ballista the AI will sit there and let you kill them until you run out of ammo. Cannon towers are, IMHO, a horrific exploit of the AI under almost all circumstances and we should GA to never build them and sell them when we capture them at settlements. I sallied out of a cannon tower city in KotR, towers built by the Danish AI IIRC, and I abandoned the walls as fast as possible specifically so I could avoid the cannon tower abuse.

I do use pause, but if there were a way to turn it off for all players I would be okay with that. It would definitely change the way I approach battles involving more than 5 companies on each side, because when you get that large you can't manage all those men in the spread out manner necessary to correctly manipulate the AI for heavy cavalry charges. When I can get the Marseille battle posted you'll see what I mean.

Unfortunately, with replays working inconsistently, if we take out pause it will be difficult to get good screenshots for battle reports. I'm kinda okay with that, although I do love reading them, because it's about playing the game first, right? I remember some of FH's battles, and (IMHO) FH was a master of manipulating AI morale. If you understand exactly the factors involved in a unit's morale equation you can probably cause it to rout almost before it has a chance to kill any of your men. The AI does little or nothing to 'protect' it's morale situation.

As far as Staufen, I did call AG 'in character' on it, but I saw it more as leverage and less as a rules violation. Staufen belongs to the King, and I presumed if the King ordered something done there that it was okay to do it... but I'm not the rules expert. I thought prioritized recruitment had to go ahead of construction, but I can't find that anywhere in the rules either. :2thumbsup:

:egypt:

[Ramses II CP]

...

(1) I always thought there were "reverse impact" casualties on charging cavalry (at least attacking spears frontally) - ie that cavalry lose extra men at the moment of impact. Is that people's experience too? Or is it just my imagination? If it you do lose cavalry on impact, surely that would raise the cost of repeatedly charging and withdrawing? Even if it were true, I guess the 2HPs of the BGs insulate you from that to some extent.

(2) I always thought braced spears negated the charge bonus of cavalry attacking them frontally. Is that true? If it is true, I can't see the charge and withdraw tactic having any benefit if applied frontally against them. If so, I guess FH and Tristan etc just avoid charging braced spears frontally. Or maybe it was only true in the older games (STW, MTW)?

Looking at the battle reports, my eyebrows do rise at seeing the King repeatedly leaving a decent army behind him to go and fight alone at 1-10 odds. It might be challenging for you, but it seems odd in character and out of character just brings home the feebleness of the AI. However, you can take that with a pinch of salt. I guess Philippe is just a bad ass (I have read historical accounts of a few knights defeating much larger numbers of foot). Players are free to play in the style they wish to. If we start telling each other what to do OOC, we will stop having fun. If I get a chance tonight, I may try out your tactics against the German remnants you mentioned in Flanders.

1. If you watch a cavalry charge striking a line of set spears in slow motion you'll see that a certain percentage of the cavalry are unhorsed on impact (They fly right over the horse's head). One of the reasons that other mods, Stainless Steel for example, made heavy cavalry companies smaller is so that this number would have a larger effect. Even 2 HP cavalry (Or more than 2, ala Broken Crescent) suffer this effect, hitpoints are no guard against it. I believe it happens even to generals, although I don't have any direct evidence in screenshots to prove it, but it's pretty simple to avoid losing your general. Make your cavalry line so that your general is lined up to 'wrap' the edge of the spear formation. That way his charge doesn't hit the front of the line and he won't be unhorsed.

2. To the extent of my knowledge this is correct only at the moment of impact, as soon as the formation breaks open, which happens almost instantly, the remaining cavalry complete their charge as normal. The more dense the formation the better it holds form against cavalry. Actually the best way to take a BG's charge, from a player's perspective, is to have to overlapping companies of spears set at an angel (A wide V for 2 companies, or for schiltrom one braced square and two bobs o_o). The charge will only strike one company of spears properly, and as soon as the charge hits you order the second company to engage at will against targets that are still trying to fight their way into the braced spears.

You need to keep in mind that, even with this info, spears do far better against a charge than other infantry. I had two companies of mounted sergeants charge some DFKs at Marseille. They lost 3men and left only 6 of the DFKs behind because the DFKs had effectively no defense. If I had pulled the charge trick off correctly I wouldn't have needed to lose any men, or perhaps just one as they withdrew, but I was watching another part of the battle.

:egypt:

[Cecil XIX]

I think it would be a good idea to keep a list of OOC Rules changes to propose next session. I already mentioned forbidding us from converting castles/cities, and I think we should also forbid any captain-led stacks from initiating battles. I definitely agree with AG's speech on making things hard for us.

I'm actually rather worried about our rate of expansion. In KotR we took three settlements our first ten turns, in LotR it was eleven. So far we stand at nine, but there's still time for another two. It's worrisome.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I think Captain led stacks could be used against brigands on our lands but not against other factions.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Seconded.

-edit- re: Cecil's post.

[AussieGiant]

You need to keep in mind that, even with this info, spears do far better against a charge than other infantry. I had two companies of mounted sergeants charge some DFKs at Marseille. They lost 3men and left only 6 of the DFKs behind because the DFKs had effectively no defense. If I had pulled the charge trick off correctly I wouldn't have needed to lose any men, or perhaps just one as they withdrew, but I was watching another part of the battle.

:egypt:

Well that's pretty depressing.

[Cecil XIX]

Well that's pretty depressing.

Agreed. Are there any mods that focus soley on the AI which we could install on top of LTC Gold?

[AussieGiant]

Agreed. Are there any mods that focus soley on the AI which we could install on top of LTC Gold?

Is there a realism mod?

[Vladimir]

wtf is the ballista sally?

Hey, don't laugh. It's how I took over Europe as Norway. :norway:

[TheFlax]

While my comment might be considered moot, since I have only played one battle in LotR and none in KotF, I never use the pause button, except when I have to leave the computer with a battle running. I've been playing like that ever since STW and that's how I'm used to play.

As such, I'm constantly amazed at some the results some of you guys get and sometimes a bit worried. I'm hoping we don't get too big, because in LotR that made owning land much less interesting and much less a factor.

[econ21]

Well that's pretty depressing.

Swords were always weak vs cavalry, but with the mod DFK stats have been nerfed quite a bit. I'm not a great fan of the change as it seems to be for "balance" rather than realism. But it's not that bad for gameplay. DFKs used to be pretty uber. Now they are just offensive infantry roughly equal to armoured spears, who are defensive/anti-cavalry infantry. They will have their role e.g. in sieges, I am sure; just not in receiving a cavalry charge.


Agreed. Are there any mods that focus soley on the AI which we could install on top of LTC Gold?

I don't think it's a matter of the AI so much. From Shogun onwards, a good player has always been able to get a lot done with their bodyguard(s) against the AI. (Their bodyguards as part of their army - this solo bodyguard army concept is new to me). It's just we have very good players and the early AI has not built up so much, so the advantage is more noticeable: the AI is not fielding full stacks and their troops are largely lowest tier. I remember in KotR towards the end, the Egyptians started fielding large elite armies that made me blanche (Mameluke horse archers plus those scarey axe wielding dudes).

Given what I have learnt about LotR and from this game, if we were starting again, I would have suggested nerfing bodyguards a little. What the realism mods for RTW gravitated towards, IIRC, is give them one hit point not two and make them smaller, say halve them. That would cut their power statistically to 25% of what it is now.

Raising the base morale of units might also help as I suspect part of what is going on is players engineering a AI morale collapse. There are probably large morale penalties from having cavalry charging your rear, seeing friends rout etc. The RTW realism mods generally give harder battles because the AI clings on, rather than routing early.

I am not sure if we want to make such changes now that the game has started, but it probably would not be hard - just a matter of editing one txt file. Maybe we could consider it as a rules change at the next Conseil?

(a) Reduce bodyguard units to one hitpoint.
(b) Half the unit size of bodyguards.
(c) Add 10 to each unit's morale.

But who knows, maybe attitudes will change when we start seeing player generals die (as they did quite often in KotR and LotR).

[Ibn-Khaldun]

That hitpoint thing is a bit over rated.
Those default 2 hit points are not that important actually. Generals do die quite often as we saw in LotR. I myself lost an avatar when I tried to pull off Methodios :clown:
More important are those traits and ancillaries that give extra hitpoints.

[Vladimir]

I believe that the stats for RBG units are good but not great. What truly sets them apart are the hitpoints and ability to regenerate. Consider that if you half the hitpoints you diminish their strength by more than half.

Reducing hitpoints and unit size may be too much.

[woad&fangs]

I'd support halfing the unit size, but I think reducing the hitpoints is a bit much.

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

I don't have much to add..... I am fine with whatever happens. I was kind of amazed at some of the things people have been pulling off. I have always been far to timid when it came to bodyguards I guess.....:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4: