KOTF OOC Thread

[Ituralde]

I did not see the 5 turn rule; given that, I think it's best to wait for Zim to sort all this out. It sounds like we have two deaths and three new or returning players to accommodate. That's quite a big job - best to do it properly.



It's just above the (c). - Battles: segment of the rules.
And initial IC with OOC as backup sounds good to me!

Welcome to the game shlin28!

[_Tristan_]

About the ratification of our 3 English provinces, William was fist dicovered in Nottingham and then made his way to York, thus taking this two provinces within the limits of Edict E1.10... As to London, I could have argued that as it was our intended Crusade target and as such was pre-ratified but I thought a specific Edict might be better as I couldn't see London within the limtis of Edict E1.10.

As to giving provinces, there's nothing that prevents the gifting of them to any avatar the King sees fit, even bypassing the will of a Duke and giving it to one of the Duke's vassals directly (though nothing prevents the Duke froma sking his vassal to return the land to him or pass it to another vassal...)

[Ibn-Khaldun]

And this reminds me that Charles still don't have his own personal province! :juggle2:

[deguerra]

Awww...someone ought to take Alphonse La Hire. He's cool! :beam:

HolyGateKeeper, I'm going to delay making you a coat of arms until you have a character, as his coat of Arms really ought to fit the character, the house he joins etc etc. Read the rules and you should have a character soon,

Shlin28, welcome!

[Vladimir]

How do I get something built in Marseilles? I thought we updated the Status thread with what we wanted and the Seneschal ques it up. I have a brothel requested from two turns ago. We have the money.

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

How do I get something built in Marseilles? I thought we updated the Status thread with what we wanted and the Seneschal ques it up. I have a brothel requested from two turns ago. We have the money.

I guess the Seneschal does not like you :tongue:

[deguerra]

AFAIK the build queue is mandatory in the sense that nothing else can be built, but it is still up to the Seneshal to actually start building anything.

You can prioritize things, I think. Units certainly, not sure about buildings. Check the rules thread, I'd say.

edit: Hmm, yeah. Nothing on prioritizing buildings in the rules. Not sure if that was intentional or an oversight. I seem to remember us having it in former games.

[Vladimir]

I guess the Seneschal does not like you :tongue:

Apparently not if I can't get one of the cheapest buildings built.

[Braden]

And this reminds me that Charles still don't have his own personal province! :juggle2:

Ha! Get in line young'un...back of queue. :laugh4:

[Ituralde]

Weekend is busy as always. So I give Tristan permission to move my avatar this turn. If he needs it to fight the Danes for example.

[Ramses II CP]

My sympathies on your loss W&F. :thumbsdown: I hope you ask for another avatar.

:egypt:

[deguerra]

Yeah, same here. Incidentally: Alphonse La Hire is still free! :laugh4:

[woad&fangs]

Sorry OK. Our Duchy was small to begin with and then I ran off and did something silly like that. In case you were wondering, your IC order/suggestion was very clear. However, I knew that was the only time I had in the next couple of days to fight a battle, so I decided to have a bit of fun. Alas, those dang mounted sergeants are a wee bit faster than I remember them to be. I hope the Duchy has some luck in recruiting new members. :bow:

I will rejoin the game at some point but not right away. I'm thinking in a few seneschal terms when Bertin's (so far unmentioned)bastard children reach avatar age. On the positive side, I think I can make a rather entertaining story out of Bertin's death. Hopefully I'll find some time this week to write it.

I sure will miss Bertin, though. He was my favorite avatar so far:shame:

[OverKnight]

That's a shame, on the bright side considering your stories there will be many bastards to choose from. :2thumbsup:

Mounted Sergeants are ideal for chasing down Family Members for better or worse.

[_Tristan_]

My condelences to OK, who lost Hugues this turn to the "Age mod"...

Lorraine is moribund...

[Ituralde]

What a shame. May I ask what his age was? I haven't been keeping track.

[_Tristan_]

50... which brings Philippe so much nearer to the grave...

[Braden]

CRAP!! That's my plan scupperd

[econ21]

3 RGBs have been generated for players who had lost their avatars :

https://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee86/badlieutenant_bucket/KotF/report1113/RGBs.jpg

Are we going to stick to the rule that players wait 5 turns before respawning? My 2 cents is that we don't need to with players that die under another player's charge or due to natural causes. So we could just give CDF, Northnovas and OK a choice of those three avatars? Unless Zim steps in, I suggest they rank the 3 avatars in order of preference and Tristan use a random number or some other method to resolve ties.

We have 2 prospective new players, so I will ask Zim to approve their joining the game. Unless you hear otherwise, Tristan, I would recommend spawning two more RBGs for them to pick up next turn.

Commiserations on your loss, Woad&fangs: do let us know when you want a new avatar spawning.

[_Tristan_]

Zim specifically asked me to recruit these 3 avatars.

I'm all for giving them to CDF, NN and OK. I would even have done it before hitting end turn, last turn, but didn't think about it.
We've also got a 4th avatar waiting that could become a family member (OK ?) which might be a good idea if we want our faction to last (as we've almost no male continuation).

I'll recruit the necessary avatars next turn.

[OverKnight]

My condelences to OK, who lost Hugues this turn to the "Age mod"...

Lorraine is moribund...

Piss poor timing indeed. :sweatdrop:

But a good day for Thomas de Saint-Amand, who in the space of a year has gained three territories and a Duchy. If I was more paranoid, I would think he hired those Germans. . .

J'Accuse KnightnDay!

As for spawning RGBs: I think we should let the new recruits have dibs first then those of us going a second time around. My understanding of the 5 turn wait for a RGB is that it was meant to curtail players developing a wasteful attitude toward RGBs. So if you die in a battle, you wait a while for the next clone slug, unless a family member is available. What's a bit more iffy is if those of us who died of old age or by the actions of others need to wait as well.

Personally, I'm not in a huge rush to get another avatar.

[KnightnDay]

Yes, this is all part of the Thomas' master plan for world domination. :clown:

Now, how to get the Duchy back on its feet...:dizzy2:

[_Tristan_]

Loss of avatar due to Ingame death (rather than player's wish) should not require a 5 turns waiting period, IMHO.


And KnD, a good start to putting the Duchy back on its tracks would be to avoid death at the hands of the uber-stack generated by our GM and his elves...

[OverKnight]

All hail Duc Thomas the Unlikely!

Try not to die. :evilgrin:

[Braden]

Yes, this is all part of the Thomas' master plan for world domination. :clown:

Now, how to get the Duchy back on its feet...:dizzy2:

There's help available IF you want to take it....(see the Council thread)

[_Tristan_]

And all hail Philippe the Scarred, King of the Franks !!!

http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/upload/2009/07/weekend_diversion_i_am_alterin/darth-vader.jpg

(Keeping with the Sith Lords theme...)


Try to envision a medieval version of same, and you've got Philippe...

[Braden]

Really?!? I was thinking a more "man in the iron mask"...bit more French :laugh4:

[KnightnDay]

I'm not much good with new-fangled technology like light sabers. I'll stick to more conventional means.

https://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae272/eacarter2/3130588051_3309d841ea_o.jpg

[Ramses II CP]

Ahh, dark days have come. Even greater sympathies on your loss OK, I hate it when the engine gobbles up an avatar. All that fun conflict that could've developed between King Louis and his old Duke is gone now too.

On the bright side Louis is now even more convinced God is on his side. Everyone who speaks out against him dies or is punished. :laugh4:

:egypt:

[Ituralde]

I have nothing against scrapping the whole 5 turn thing entirely. There are just many occasion where it doesn't make sense. And from what I've seen so far we don't have to be afraid of anyone trying to become wasteful with their avatars.

Tough luck OK, but I already look forward to your next avatar!

[Ferret]

Zim specifically asked me to recruit these 3 avatars.

Do you know if one of them is for me? Zim never did get back to me and I haven't seen him around in a while but I'm still here lurking

[Ituralde]

Give that man his avatar! :2thumbsup:

No seriously, we can always need new and old players and shouldn't keep them waiting. Please recruit enough RGBs that everyone can have one.

[_Tristan_]

We got no news from you for some time... Even before Ibn claimed Charles back...

One of these could be for you depending on who claims them..

If I'm not mistaken, we have currently Elite Ferret, Cultured Drizzt Fan, Northnovas, Overknight, HolyGateKeeper and Shlin28 waiting for an avatar...

I've listed them in order of request (or order of demise...) so we could use this setup : EF, CDF and NN get to choose among the 3 from this turn, OK, HGK and S28 will get to choose from the next batch...

[Ferret]

Zim got news from me, I was just waiting for Charles to come of age but I was on holiday when it happened. When I got back Zim told me Ibn wanted him so I said okay I'll have a RGB, but then a while later Ibn asked me as well so I don't know what happened there but yeah I said the same again. I guess I should have posted here as well...

I'm happy to wait until later if anyone else wants those three, I'm in no great rush.

[shlin28]

I can wait. Let everyone else (especially the vets) have the avatars first :yes:

[_Tristan_]

Hey, EF, I didn't know you were in touch with Zim... At the utmost, you'll have a single turn to wait... Your new avatar should be waiting for you Wednesday at the latest.

[_Tristan_]

Aussiegiant : Hi Ramses,

I'm getting an error on that save using winRAR. Can you give it another shot?

Mine definitely works. Maybe you could try DLing it anew ?

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

give me a little while to go over them and I will chose. :yes: thanks guys :sweatdrop:

[Braden]

Ooo...new victi...erm...members to join us. Excellent.

muhahahahahhahahaha!

[Vladimir]

And you wonder why Gontran's sitting in the south, soaking up the sun.

Edit: So, how did you guys keep things interesting in prior games? I figured there'd be more squabbling over resources, wars, etc. How did you stay interested?

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Well, there should be more "Bad Boys". Things would become more interesting then.:yes:

[deguerra]

It's not easy. I'm glad of the various deaths, even if I know they must be annoying, because they ought to spruce things up a bit. I also really really really really think we need some sort of GM event. We are simply too powerful already.

As a sidenote, I imagine Raoul as a combination of

http://www.filmdope.com/Gallery/ActorsI/8528-26576.gif

and

http://idothings.info/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/tuco-graveyard.jpg

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

OK I am willing to take Micheal D'Anjou :bow:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

It's not easy. I'm glad of the various deaths, even if I know they must be annoying, because they ought to spruce things up a bit. I also really really really really think we need some sort of GM event. We are simply too powerful already.

As a sidenote, I imagine Raoul as a combination of

http://www.filmdope.com/Gallery/ActorsI/8528-26576.gif

and

http://idothings.info/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/tuco-graveyard.jpg

I agree with this part. There haven't been any yet and I liked them in LotR..

[woad&fangs]

I might have an idea for an event :devil:
edit: I'll send a proposal to Zim later tonight. I'm really liking this idea of mine.

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

ohhh, I LIKE this avatar :beam: I have a good story for him. :yes:

[Ramses II CP]

I've proposed a thing with Zim, but it might take some time to develop. We'll see.

Louis, for the record, has an off-the-charts loyalty rating. I'm rather trapped with how much I can exploit his temperment disagreement with his father. There will be conflict in the future, rest assured.

edit: By the way, was the save taken mine or Tristan's? Did mine fail for anyone other than AG?

:egypt:

[Vladimir]

Good. I like TC's revelation about the private disputes within France. Lately there's been no reason for any given all the wars. Gontran is pissed about the lack of development in his settlement but he's more likely to bed some Italian girl than pick a fight.

[Northnovas]

Well if CDF as his pick from the 3 I will take Beavis the one young enough to be someone's bastard son. :idea2:

[Braden]

Interest? Is it time for me to add that Henri is really the bastard son of one of our spies, and is being manipulated by him in the background? :idea2:…Nahh, done that one already (WotS). :oops:

Fun is coming, it just takes time and lots of back-room moves…it’s a chess game..I…(whoops!)…we have to get the pieces in position before we stir things up.

(Braden nonchalantly wanders off whistling quietly) :laugh4:

[Ignoramus]

Hello guys! Just touching base again after so many hectic weeks. I'm really sorry about my absence. Has much happened?

[_Tristan_]

Not much...:beam:

[Ituralde]

People died, the King has vetoed the Counseil, there has been no Crusade to nowhere, you are still Steward of Antwerp although with a hint of incompetence attached to your name, because you weren't there to defend it against the Germans.

[Braden]

Yeah, I had to send someone else there to look after the place! :laugh4:

[_Tristan_]

So about our RGBs,

We have :

Cultured Drizzt Fan - Michel d'Anjou
Northnovas - Gauthier de Beauvais

Anyone wants André des Vaux ?

[Ignoramus]

(Opps!)

I'm not sure how much time I'll have over the next couple of months. Would people mind if Gaspard wasn't so active, and thus his character took a different course?

[_Tristan_]

Play him how you want to play him, Igno... That's what's good with these games, you make of it what you want, what you will...

[Braden]

(Opps!)

I'm not sure how much time I'll have over the next couple of months. Would people mind if Gaspard wasn't so active, and thus his character took a different course?

Yeah, I was only kidding anyway. As long as your SoT's allow some movement it'll be ok.

[Ferret]

Anyone wants André des Vaux ?

:2thumbsup:

[_Tristan_]

Good

[_Tristan_]

Due to my inability to "teleport" avatars through the console (and unless someone wants to give it a try), I'm ready to recruit the next avatars for the players wanting one in whichever town they'd prefer...

So HolyGateKeeper, Shlin28 and OverKnight, speak up and I'll make sure to recruit them wherever you want them to be...

[shlin28]

I wish my avatar to be spawned in Paris :yes:

[_Tristan_]

Be aware that the game allows only one RGB spawn by province per turn, hence you'll be stuck with this avatar.

I'll try and spawn them around the country so probably one in Paris, one in Bordeaux and the last in Bern or Staufen.


EDIT : Btw, I'll probably be taking the save tonight (GMT + 1) as everybody seems to have made their moves.

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

Be aware that the game allows only one RGB spawn by province per turn, hence you'll be stuck with this avatar.

I'll try and spawn them around the country so probably one in Paris, one in Bordeaux and the last in Bern or Staufen.


EDIT : Btw, I'll probably be taking the save tonight (GMT + 1) as everybody seems to have made their moves.



I will take the save and loom around by then. :yes: today is a bit hectic for me.

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

alright, now I need to write my story. :juggle2: Then chose my house and such. man am I busy these days :sweatdrop:

[_Tristan_]

Btw, CDF, sorry about the timing... I waited a bit and not seeing you access the save I decided to give it a go...

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

Btw, CDF, sorry about the timing... I waited a bit and not seeing you access the save I decided to give it a go...

Its fine, I am wiped out anyway. :sweatdrop: I can do it all next turn anyway. not too big of a deal.

[_Tristan_]

:2thumbsup:

[Cecil XIX]

Hey Tristan, what's the deal with taking the save early? I was going to move Hermant into Dijon in about an hour or so.

[Vladimir]

Build walls for Gontran! The ladies knocking down his door are too much. He's in his late 30's now. Give hime some rest!

[shlin28]

Excellent, the avatar spawned for me in Paris is Villain de la Salle.

If my mediocre French is correct, wouldn't he be literally the 'Villain in the Room'? :beam:

[_Tristan_]

That's a fair translation of his name, yes... I got a good laugh when I saw him :beam:

[Braden]

Just read the latest stories…excellent, short but good and noticed…

“Théophile” ?

Théophile de la Salle ?

Was he the French equivalent of Peter Phile?

….think about it….:inquisitive::laugh4:

[Vladimir]

That's a fair translation of his name, yes... I got a good laugh when I saw him :beam:

Good. Maybe we can get some good robber-baron drama going. Start working on that :skull:

[OverKnight]

So I should just grab one of the remaining RGBs, Chretien or Lionel?

[deguerra]

Moved the Villain towards Frankfurt.
:laugh4: I feel you're going to get a few good jokes out of that one

[econ21]

So I should just grab one of the remaining RGBs, Chretien or Lionel?

Sure - it would be good to have you back in the game.

[Cecil XIX]

I've updated part of the Library today, and though it's not all finished I hope it'll be up-to-date by the end of the week. In the meantime, here's the fully current Province Ownership chart, now color-coded for House ownership!

3^Province|Settlement|Type|Owner
7^Ile de France|Paris|City|Philippe Capet
7^Toulouse|Toulouse|Castle|Louis Capet
7^Rheims|Reims|City|André des Vaux
7^Burgundy|Dijon|City|Raymond de Provence
7^Brittany|Rennes|City|Alexandre Le Sueur
7^Champagne|Metz|Castle|Henri Capet
7^South Flanders|Bruge|City|Thierry de Rochefort
7^Aragon|Zaragoza|City|Raynaud de Xaintrailles
7^Franconia|Frankfurt|City|Thomas de Saint-Amand
7^Normandy|Caen|Castle|Philippe Capet
7^Provence|Marseille|City|Gontran de Linars
7^North Flanders|Antwerp|City|Gaspard de Neufville
7^|||The Order of the Fleur de Lys
7^Swabia|Staufen|Castle|Thomas de Saint-Amand
7^Valencia|Valencia|City|Philippe Capet
7^Gascony|Bordeaux|Castle|Christophe de Perrone
7^Anjou|Angers|Castle|Alain de Rohan
7^Bavaria|Nuremberg|City|Philippe Capet
7^Switzerland|Bern|Castle|Raoul Chatillon
7^Navarre|Pamplona|Castle|Philippe Capet
7^Mercia|Nottingham|Castle|Philippe Capet
7^Northumbria|York|City|Philippe Capet
7^Wessex|London|City|Philippe Capet
7^Granada|Granada|Castle|Philippe Capet


If anybody sees any errors, please point them out. I plan to update this in more-or-less real time, rather than every ten turns.

[Ramses II CP]

Pamplona also belongs to House Aquitaine (edit: to Prince Louis of HA), assigned at the last Council session.

Valencia belongs to Barbus Selvo, assigned at the same time as Pamplona.

That's all I spotted, other than the white being nearly invisible it looks great! :2thumbsup:

:egypt:

[Ituralde]

Nice job! This should be very helpful.

I don't know whether Alain de Rohan accepted London so not sure whom it belongs to.
Also I think it would be great if you could put the owner of Granada as unratified. That way you know at a glance which provinces have not yet been ratified.

[_Tristan_]

There might be a slight delay until the next turn is posted as I'll have both to relieve the siege of York and do the Senechal's work for the turn...

Expect it Saturday at the latest... Will keep you posted...

Btw, do you prefer a 24-hour period per turn or a 48-hour as has been the case until now ?

[Braden]

Hasn't Phillip granted York to Charles?

[Braden]

48hrs is fine for me as I computer-share with my wife...(mutters grumbles that her Empire game is going better than his own)

[Cecil XIX]

Hasn't Phillip granted York to Charles?

Not in the Conseil, at least.

[_Tristan_]

Nope, Charles has no lands of his own yet...

[econ21]

Btw, do you prefer a 24-hour period per turn or a 48-hour as has been the case until now ?

Quite a few players download saves just to make moves (as opposed to fight battles), so 48-hours seems a more realistic interval. It also allows more time for the in character forum exchanges to keep up with in game events.

[_Tristan_]

Save back

Brought troops up to the ford directly south of Frankfurt.

So no fighting yet ?

Btw, have you decided among you who will fight the battle of Frankfurt ? Though I'm not sure you'll have the choice as the game will choose the avatar with the more command stars as leader ? Henri, IIRC ?

[KnightnDay]

Oui, Henri will have the honor. Updating my SoT to cover it, although not real necessary.

[Necrosis]

Hello people.

I've been following this game avidly for the last few days. It looks very exciting and I would love to join. I just need to finish installing/downloading M2TW, Kingdoms and the various patches first which should only take until tommorow.

I do like an early start however, so is there any family members not taken? If not I would be fine taking a RGB.

[Ramses II CP]

The battle against the Moors near Marseille is finally up, I'm working on the three (!) others I have backlogged.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2347749&postcount=26

:egypt:

[Northnovas]

Hello people.

I've been following this game avidly for the last few days. It looks very exciting and I would love to join. I just need to finish installing/downloading M2TW, Kingdoms and the various patches first which should only take until tommorow.

I do like an early start however, so is there any family members not taken? If not I would be fine taking a RGB.

Welcome to the Org Necrosis!, GM Zim can get you set up soon. I don't know if there are any family members available right now, but a RBG can be created soon enough. Once you have installed everything grab a recent save to check that the install is woking correctly.

[Necrosis]

Welcome to the Org Necrosis!, GM Zim can get you set up soon. I don't know if there are any family members available right now, but a RBG can be created soon enough. Once you have installed everything grab a recent save to check that the install is woking correctly.

Thanks for the welcome.

Will do that, thanks.

[deguerra]

I think there were still two which OK had to choose from, so Necrosis (Hi Necrosis :2thumbsup:) could have the other. Just a sec, am looking for the relevant post.

edit: here we are

So I should just grab one of the remaining RGBs, Chretien or Lionel?

So presumably the other would still be available. Sadly, I don't think we've heard from OK since, so you may have to wait until he chooses.

Finally, may I of course express my condolences to KnightnDay. Also I move we dissolve the Duchy of Lorraine. Clearly they are cursed :clown:

[Cecil XIX]

Yes, give their lands to Bourgogne. :clown:

[deguerra]

My thoughts exactly, mon Duc. However did you guess

[Braden]

Lorraine is not cursed...we've just been doing (clearly) the hard fighting of late. :laugh4:

Such a "curse" will be lifted by my hand!!

[Braden]

Erm…does this make Henri the new Duc of Lorraine?

[Ferret]

It depends if KnightnDay wrote a will or not. If he did then the new Duke is whoever he put in his will and if he didn't the king decides. But yeah it's likely to be Henri either way.

[Braden]

It depends if KnightnDay wrote a will or not. If he did then the new Duke is whoever he put in his will and if he didn't the king decides. But yeah it's likely to be Henri either way.

Not sure if he did...we'll find out. Either way...oh crap! :laugh4:

[KnightnDay]

Nope, no will.

[_Tristan_]

Sorry for your loss, KnightnDay... Thomas still had some good years ahead of him.

Will you require the recruitment of a new avatar ?

And OK, have you chosen your own ?

[Braden]

KnightnDay as I said privately, I'm really upset about what happened. All the Avatar units got the same amount of use in the battle and it was just dumb (bad) luck.

Could I have fought the battle differently? With hindsight, certainly...but not much more differently. The main error I made was letting two units of crossbowmen get run down by a unit of enemy knights as I was on busy on the opposite flank of the army. :embarassed:

Again, sorry and I hope you take a RBG as soon as you can.

[Vladimir]

You see, that's why Gontran stays where he belongs: In the rear with the gear. Sure he may venture out for a quick thrust and parry, but he belongs smothered by the full, sweet bosom that is southern France.

[KnightnDay]

Sorry for your loss, KnightnDay... Thomas still had some good years ahead of him.

Will you require the recruitment of a new avatar ?

No thanks, I will remain :skull: for the immediate future.

[OverKnight]

Yurrghhh I'm busy for a couple days and my former Duchy goes to pot!

Sorry KnightnDay. Never go into a battle commanded by your heir. :dizzy2:

I'll take Chretien Saisset.

[Tamur]

hi all,

I've been watching the game the past few days, and have been hoping to join when my comp is set up.

I have Kingdoms via Steam (which works fine). When I patch with Lands to Conquer and try to run it, I get a CA_LIBS box with "Medieval II has encountered a fatal error". I've searched the forums here and elsewhere and see a couple of other people have this problem when using the LtC mod (always when using Steam) but there have been no resolutions I've found.

Anyone run into the same thing when setting up for the game?

All help appreciated, thank you,
Tamur

[shlin28]

If you have Steam you will need to use the Medieval II Launcher to run the mod.

Would this work? I found this in one of Lusted's posts.

[Northnovas]

hi all,

I've been watching the game the past few days, and have been hoping to join when my comp is set up.

I have Kingdoms via Steam (which works fine). When I patch with Lands to Conquer and try to run it, I get a CA_LIBS box with "Medieval II has encountered a fatal error". I've searched the forums here and elsewhere and see a couple of other people have this problem when using the LtC mod (always when using Steam) but there have been no resolutions I've found.

Anyone run into the same thing when setting up for the game?

All help appreciated, thank you,
Tamur

Hi Tamur,

Following up here are 2 links from TWC that addesses SS mod but it is the same issue for a possible work around..

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=133185&highlight=steam

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=314

[Tamur]

Thanks much Northnovas and shlin28. By using the Medieval 2 launcher, does that mean putting the command-line arguments for the mod on the med 2 executable? I'll have to experiment.

I'll also experiment with the SS fix. It doesn't seem like that's the problem, because Lands to Conquer does show up in the launcher list along with the four Kingdoms campaigns. But it's definitely worth a try.

Thanks again!

[_Tristan_]

I hope you can solve your problems and join soon...

Let us know how things evolve so that an avatar can be recruited for you.

[Tamur]

Game on, wohoo! The install/clearout of the other mod didn't work, but booting via Medieval 2's launcher (no command-line changes, just using that instead of kingdoms) works beautifully.

So, I'm ready to go and would like to request a character.

Thanks again!

[Ituralde]

Welcome to the game Tamur!

[Cecil XIX]

Nice to have you back, Tamur. It's been a while!

[_Tristan_]

So, I'm ready to go and would like to request a character.


Roger that !

An avatar will be spawned at the end of the turn... Where would you like him to start, Tamur ?

Necrosis will have Lionel de Thouars, currently in Bordeaux...

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Welcome Tamur! :bow:

Good to see new players. Prince Charles needs some servants vassals. :clown:

[Braden]

Ooo..cool another player of quality.

Hmm, Lorraine needs more men :2thumbsup:

[deguerra]

Ooo..cool another player of quality.
:

What are you insinuating about the rest of us? :clown:

[Braden]

Hmmm...what am I saying :inquisitive:

*wink* Ok, "another" quality player...to add to all the others we have here already!

[TinCow]

I regret to announce that I am going to withdraw from KotF. I haven't had any motivation to do much of anything since the beginning of September, which has made me essentially inactive for the last 2 months. I've begun to feel pretty bad about this, and I realized a couple days ago that I'd actively been avoiding posting altogether because I've been feeling this way. I'm just too busy at work to devote any time to writing and scheming and there are many, many other things that are higher on my priority list for my free time.

So... please kill off Christophe. If an IC reason is needed, call it the plague or something. He will die without a will.

[Braden]

Oh man! How can we loose you TC??

I know what you mean about work though. I’ve had to drop my LRP system, just don’t have the time to “write rules, book venues, build sets” and all the rest of it.

Haven’t even been Airsofting for 6 months!

Gutted though.

[Tamur]

Sorry to see you go TinCow... but I know too well what it's like to be pulled in overmany directions. Best wishes in your work life.

but... who will I scheme with now? :7ninja:

edit: I'll look a bit later today at the save to figure out where to be. Are we short active avatars in any particular area?

[_Tristan_]

Not particularly... I'm going to take the save now so I'm gonna recruit your avatar in Paris... In the centermost position... Allowing you the widest choice of venues to fight...

And Tincow, sorry to see you go... I myself am somewhat tight on schedule which keeps me wondering what I'll do after Philippe... Hope to see you back soon if you can manage... I vote we give Christophe the two-terms inactivity delay in case you change your mind... Who knows how you'll feel in about two-months time ?

[Tamur]

Sounds good Tristan, thanks very much!

[Braden]

Noted Villain got a MoH offer via Charles which…RP wise…is mucked up. As Villain is already a member of Lorraine AND pledged to a Count, do you think we ought just skip that bit as it might pose a RP issue with Villain being linked directly to two Princes?

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Someone wants to be adopted by Charles? :laugh4:

EDIT: Hmm .. so.. how much that Villain is ready to pay in order to become part of the Royal family? :evilgrin:

[Braden]

Ibn I’m sure the Duchy or Lorraine can reach an agreement with Charles to let Villain into the Royal family don’t you? (as long as his loyalties remain with Lorraine..*cough*…and Henri)

[_Tristan_]

While I have no OOC objection to accepting the MoH offer of Shlin28, IC Philippe is very much against... I'll send a PM to Zim to see how we stand on the matter in the rules...

[Braden]

Both Henri and Charles have negotiated a deal fully IC but if the King can veto it somehow IC then that’s just more “RP Gravy”.

[Ituralde]

The rules are pretty clear cut on the adoption part: (bolding done by me)



1. General
[...]
(b). - Avatars:
[...].If a Man of the Hour adoption is offered to an avatar, the choice of whether to accept it is entirely up to the avatar who is the adopter.

While scanning through the rules I also found this bit of information:


2. Houses


(a). - Starting Houses: There are four starting Houses, named The Duchy of Bourgogne, The Duchy of Aquitaine, The Duchy of Lorraine and The Duchy of Bretagne. These starting Houses are to be initially led by Raymond de Provence, Prince Louis, Hugues de Champagne and Alain de Rohan, respectively. The leaders of these starting Houses are exempt from any obligations to join the Houses of their parents, and are the first Dukes of their respective Houses.

All other family members start in the House of their parents and are considered to have sworn an oath of fealty to their "parent", regardless of whether they are born into the family, are adopted, or marry into it. They are able to break their familial oath and attempt to join another House, start a new one, or remain independent. However, this brings with it the chance of Civil War as laid out in rule 6 (b).

(b). - RGBs: Recruitable generals start off in the game as independent Knights, excepting the first two as per rule 2 (a). From this position they are free to remain independent or join any of the existing Houses. Should they join an existing House and own land, they will be counted as landed vassals for the purpose of determining ranks within their House, but are unable to inherit leadership of the House. Should a Knight receive an adoption or marriage offer, they will be required to join the House of their new parents, if said parents have one. If they are already members of another House this will still carry the risk of Civil War as per Rule 6 (b).


I bolded the important parts above. I guess this is irrelevant now as Charles is not the member of any House and I guess the negotiation between Charles and Henri was to prevent the chance of Civil War as detailed in 2.a)?

Sorry for this kind of obvious question but I found out that I'm just now familiarizing myself with the Ruleset for Houses.

[Braden]

Details of the IC negotiated deal do, unfortunately, go against (I think) some of the in-game rules but remain in the "spirit" of the rules and gameplay.

As they have been agreed and negotiated from the start IC and were aimed at preventing any Civil War-like issues then I hope they stay.

In short:

Charles has accepted Villain’s approach to become part of the family….IN RETURN…Henri has given Charles unilateral control of Staufen (which had no Baron) and Charles plans to start his own Duchy with it.

- the IC angle is that Henri has requested Charles to sponsor Villain's entry into the Royal house -

In addition to this Villain remains pledged to Andre as his Count.

So, yes, we have created through RP quite a complex arrangement that means Villain does not need to break fealty to Lorraine, thus negating the threat of either civil war or direct issue with Villain and willingly creating another Duchy…again without resorting to Civil war.

…assuming its allowed now of course.

[Braden]

Changing subject entirely for a moment….

There appear to be no rules about merging depleted companies. What’s the “given” on that? I understand that generally re-training is preferred as units retain their chevrons (I believe) but other than that I was wondering if there was any un-written agreement in this game for merging?

I’m asking as my forces are pretty bent and its going to take quite a few YEARS to retrain every company that’s depleted but I can merge what I have now and produce a decent force now.

[Ituralde]

I don't see anything wrong with the deal you have worked out.
The rules part for new Houses is detailed here. So Charles is good to go during the next Council Session and can propose a Codex Amendment according to his wishes.



(c) - New Houses: Any independent land owning Noble may attempt to start a new House by proposing a Codex Amendment at the Council of Nobles. Should their Codex Amendment pass, they automatically attain the rank of Duke of their new House. They may name it whatever they please. Recruitable generals who become Dukes in this manner are exempt from any requirement to join a parent's House if they are adopted or become an FM through marriage.

[_Tristan_]

I'll bow to the rules then but expect some flak in the Conseil... and some repercussions as well...

[Braden]

Well, Henri did give the option to his brother to join Lorraine but…oddly he politely refused.

OOC it seems the deal stands then, which is good.

IC, Legally, I also don’t believe the King can do anything either (or under the guise of Seneschal) to stop this so…as far as I’m concerned…its “good to go” also. Of course, the King “could” veto the Edict Amendment which would be a legal block but, IC, he’d then have to consider what Charles will do then.

Henri would still be happy even if the amendment was veto’d, he’s retained Villain which was (from his standpoint) one of the main aims of the negotiation. Also, Charles would still retain Staufen, again, something Henri wanted as it defends his Southern border whilst allowing another “Duchy” to take up the expenditure in men other than Lorraine.

So, remember Trist, I bet you’ve got that Veto paper ready as we speak! lol

[Braden]

Now...about merging units?

[_Tristan_]

Now...about merging units?

There is nothing against it in any rules. As long as you make sure the units belong to you, ie are part of one of your city's garrison or part of your army, you can whatever you want with them : merge, disband, give them away... whatever...

[Braden]

There is nothing against it in any rules. As long as you make sure the units belong to you, ie are part of one of your city's garrison or part of your army, you can whatever you want with them : merge, disband, give them away... whatever...

Thanks that makes Duc much more happy. :yes:

[_Tristan_]

Please be advised that the save is frozen while I clear some business with Zim.

[Braden]

Please be advised that the save is frozen while I clear some business with Zim.

M-Kay...extending the period to accomodate?

[_Tristan_]

Probably... until Sunday...

Thing is what lands did Thomas hold in person before his death ? Frankfurt, Staufen, Reims if I'm not mistaken...

[Cecil XIX]

Probably... until Sunday...

Thing is what lands did Thomas hold in person before his death ? Frankfurt, Staufen, Reims if I'm not mistaken...

Via the Library...

3^#|Avatar|Rank|Land|Stats|Duel|Player|Inf|Act
7^|Thomas de Saint-Amand|D|Franconia|3-4c-7-5|1-51-8|KnightnDay (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=26367")|1|3
7^|||Swabia|||||



Thomas gave Reims to Andre.

[_Tristan_]

Thanks, Cecil...

Btw, I don't think the save needs to be frozen anymore... You're free to go... Just don't accept the MoH offer yet as I'm waiting word from Zim...

[Ituralde]

I'll bow to the rules then but expect some flak in the Conseil... and some repercussions as well...

That's always the best reaction! No OOC squabble but lots of IC conflict, that's how it's supposed to be! :2thumbsup:

[Cecil XIX]

That's always the best reaction! No OOC squabble but lots of IC conflict, that's how it's supposed to be! :2thumbsup:

:yes:

[_Tristan_]

Yes, just wanted to make sure my position IC was sustainable OOC, ie not breaking any rules... and not going against the grain...

[Tamur]

Totally off-topic, but anyone ever been to Staufen? I had a friend who lived near there for a couple of years, and was amazed with the gorgeous landscape. Looking at pictures of it this afternoon makes me homesick for Montana.

So, whoever ends up with it is one lucky doggie. :)

[_Tristan_]

Never been that side of the Rhein but I did my army time in Alsace and I can sure vouch for the fact that the area is splendid...(though the winter's cold is biting...)

[shlin28]

That's a very good counter-proposal there, Tristan :yes:

I am struggling to think of a way to counter that... :sweatdrop:

[_Tristan_]

That's a very good counter-proposal there, Tristan :yes:

I am struggling to think of a way to counter that... :sweatdrop:

Being the King teaches to be devious :devil:

[Braden]

Thomas was Duc of Lorraine so held all of the Territories held by Lorraine, my information was that INCLUDED Frankfurt, I'm pretty sure it was mentioned on the treads.

Library might have been out of date. Frankfurt was part of german provinces captured, and as all German conquests were pre-ratified by the council and then given to the old Duc at the time.

I could have a look back on the threads but I'm pretty sure.

Oh, I know where I got the info from. OverKnight told me as I asked him directly when I became Duc..."what provinces does Lorraine have?" and his list rang true at the time.

(EDITED as I rushed it last time...daughter wanted attention)

[Cecil XIX]

I note a Spanish princess also there and Henri's hoping for a marriage offer...you never know :laugh4:

Or maybe she'll 'convince' him to join Spain. Lorraine just can't seem to catch a break lately, you know. :beam:

[OverKnight]

I wish the shade of Hugues could appear in the Conseil and have one last drunken rant against the people who horse traded part of his Duchy for a royal adoption. Particularly since none of the originial members of the Duchy remain and those who benefit are just a bunch of carpet-baggers. :laugh4:

[Braden]

Honestly not sure what's going on at the moment.

I asked and was told what provinces were in Lorraine.

As such, as far as I'm aware, Frankfurt is part of Lorraine.

The deal to adopt Villain goes ahead as agreed IC between Henri and Charles.

EDIT - I have found that posts #53 & #54 in the Lorraine thread confirm that Frankfurt was given to Lorraine as Thomas was made Baron of Frankonia.

2nd Edit - save was live, mis-read the above posts.

[Braden]

carpet-baggers. :laugh4:

Didn't the carpet-baggers effectively win (if my historical and contextual memory serves correctly) :2thumbsup:

[OverKnight]

Well, the Civil War, or if your south of the Mason-Dixon line, the War of Northern Aggression, was already won when the oppurtunistic office seekers, profiteers and such swept into the South.

I guess they won, though most of the more ambitious goals of Reconstruction failed.

To stretch the metaphor to the breaking point, you just sold Texas back to Mexico.

[_Tristan_]

Sorry, if the game is being hold up at the moment, but a close relative of my wife has been taken to hospital in a coma Friday evening... So the week-end has been rather tough... I'll try try to catch up the threads before tonight and will get to the save then...

[Braden]

Sorry, if the game is being hold up at the moment, but a close relative of my wife has been taken to hospital in a coma Friday evening... So the week-end has been rather tough... I'll try try to catch up the threads before tonight and will get to the save then...

Certainly no pressure with this, get personal stuff sorted. My best thoughts to you and your family.

[Ituralde]

Sorry, if the game is being hold up at the moment, but a close relative of my wife has been taken to hospital in a coma Friday evening... So the week-end has been rather tough... I'll try try to catch up the threads before tonight and will get to the save then...

My sympathies also. I hope everything goes well and take your time!

[_Tristan_]

Thanks for the kind words... She's now out of the coma but remains quite weak...

I'm truly sorry for the delay ingame but will catch up soon.

[Braden]

SO glad to hear of an improvement.

Still no pressure from me.

[econ21]

Tristan, I am sorry to hear of your family difficulties. Don't worry about the game slowing down - you were moving at a cracking pace before your troubles and real life comes first.

On the inheritance issue, I understand from Braden's IC post that we have some OOC ruling from Zim? Can that be reproduced for other players' to read? I find the King's IC interpretation of the rules very odd and contrary to how I would read the rules OOC. Ituralde's IC interpretations seemed spot on to me. To say Dukes are "independent" and therefore a Duchy's lands are lost if the Duke dies intestate seems to be going way too far.

[Braden]

I've intermated in my IC post that if the IC ruling comes via an OOC clarification from Zim I'm happy.

Mainly as I had the same understanding of the rule as econ21 and that an "independant" Duc was one without a feudal chain below him, which seems more logical to me, the King picks up the property as there is no senior Baron of that Feudal chain to pick it up and maintain it.

[Ituralde]

Yeah I'd also like to hear the reasoning. Because I remembered that passage to be in there to prevent exactly the thing that is happening now. The possibility of Duchies falling into the hand of the King.
Also it seems we do need a definition of "independent" and "feudal chain" then as I understood them differently just from reading the Rules.

Either way I'm not against following sound reasoning. The consequence of this whole thing seems to be: If you're a Duke you better have a will. If that's the only consequence I'm alright with that.

Cheers!

Ituralde

[Braden]

On this subject has anyone had contact with Zim of late? :embarassed:

[_Tristan_]

I've not had any contacts with Zim either on the forums or on MSN of late and as such do not have an official ruling... I'll be okay to go either way... Do not forget I'm not an born English speaker and that some nuances may get past me when trying to make sense of the rules...

I find the situation rather interesting IC but wouldn't want to break any OOC rules...

All the more reason to keep the save as it is (not that I could have it any differently...)

Once again, thanks for your support and your patience...

[Braden]

Worrying that Zim is out of contact currently. Perhaps we ought to just put this to a simple OOC vote of players for now to clarify the rules in question in the absence of our GM?

1 – Definition of “independent land owning Noble”:

a) An Avatar with ownership of one or more provinces but who is without vassals AND does not have a ratified Duchy.
b) An Avatar with ownership of one or more provinces but who is without vassals with a ratified Duchy.
c) An Avatar with ownership of one or more provinces, with vassals but does not have a ratified Duchy.
d) An Avatar with ownership of one or more provinces, with vassals AND has a ratified Duchy.

**Personally, I feel the term refers clearly to option “a” but could also include option “b”, however, these are the possible combinations of what it could entail, I’d like your opinions on them.**



2 – Proposed Amended wording to Rule 39(d):

(d) - Wills & Inheritance: Upon the death of a noble his land and/or Duchy goes to the Avatar(s) specified in his valid Will. A will is valid only if posted on the relating Dukes SoT entry prior to his IC death. Inheritance of Land is separate from Succession of Title and each will, should contain two clauses to cover both land and title. Hence, it is possible for a Duke to specify one Avatar to inherit his land holdings but a different one to become his Successor in Title. Also note that a Duke can nominate ANY avatar and they need not be only those within their own Feudal Chain, including the King.

Land Inheritance without a valid will: Upon the death of a noble who has no valid will (either none posted on his SoT’s or one that has become invalid due to death of relating avatars), his lands pass to the highest ranked Count or Baron within his Feudal Chain.

Title Succession without a valid will: Upon the death of a noble who has no valid will (either none posted on his SoT’s or one that has become invalid due to death of relating avatars), the King picks the successor from among the Nobles in the Duchy Feudal Chain.

3 – Proposed Additional sub-clause (g):

(g) Default Inheritance Rule: Upon the death of a noble, if a Duke is independent (as decided with above addition #1) and has no valid will (either none posted on his SoT’s or one that has become invalid due to death of relating avatars), all Lands and Titles immediately go into the King.


**I have amended this to detach the Kings involvement and to make it clearer that the King is the person land goes to by DEFAULT if there isn’t a Count or Baron within the Duchy Feudal chain for it to go to. I have also specified that there is a difference between inheriting land and being the Successor of the Duchy. Land inheritance is via the Duchy Feudal Chain automatically but the Successor of the Duchy itself is still decided by the King from the Duchy Feudal Chain, hence the two could be differing Avatars though in practice this would be unlikely.**

[Tamur]

Great idea Braden, I'm all for resolving it and moving onward. The IC ramifications are splendid to play with, regardless of the choice. We just need to choose the choice to be chosen!

*wanders off to say ch- words at his co-workers... or is that cho-workers?*

[Braden]

I can put a couple of voting threads up tonight if I manage to get onto the PC. One for the vote on what “independent” means and the other for the Rule amendment.

[Ferret]

Land Inheritance without a valid will: Upon the death of a noble who has no valid will (either none posted on his SoT’s or one that has become invalid due to death of relating avatars), his lands pass to the highest ranked Count or Baron within his Feudal Chain.



I think the land should go to the duchy/duke if a noble dies. If it is the duke that dies then the land should go to his successor imo.

[Braden]

I think the land should go to the duchy/duke if a noble dies. If it is the duke that dies then the land should go to his successor imo.

Hmmm…I haven’t considered Baron’s death in this matter. I hope I don’t have to add more regarding that, do you think I do? The opposite would work of course for a Count or Baron’s death and their lands would move UP the Feudal chain automatically.

However, we’re in danger of making a complex thing even more complex as we “could” allow Counts and Barons to have wills…they could therefore specify Vassals to inherit…it could be endless but I suppose there would be no grey areas about who gets what.

Remember that the clause you highlight is only IF no will exists and therefore there is no named Successor as well.

EDIT - how does this revision sound?

Land Inheritance without a valid will: Upon the death of a noble who has no valid will (either none posted on his SoT’s or one that has become invalid due to death of relating avatars), his lands pass to the highest ranked member within his Feudal Chain.

[Ramses II CP]

My sympathies on your situation Tristan.

I'm personally glad things have slowed a bit, I really need to catch up on stuff for the game but life has been absurdly busy and I'm still putting that personal nastiness from a month ago behind my family. Prince Louis does have a vested interest in the way things are going (FOr one I'm going to write a will!) but it may be a bit before he can comment officially.

:egypt:

[Braden]

Considering that I may just write my will and leave everything to the King…that way I don’t get any daggers in the back!

…either that or leave everything to “an random” noble…:laugh4:

[Ituralde]

1 – Definition of “independent land owning Noble”:

a) An Avatar with ownership of one or more provinces but who is without vassals AND does not have a ratified Duchy.
b) An Avatar with ownership of one or more provinces but who is without vassals with a ratified Duchy.
c) An Avatar with ownership of one or more provinces, with vassals but does not have a ratified Duchy.
d) An Avatar with ownership of one or more provinces, with vassals AND has a ratified Duchy.


The way I understood it from the curren Rules is that any avatar that has not joined a House/Duchy is independent.

So this would be c) in this case. Just because you have a vassal does not make you part of a House. That has to come with a Codex Amendment. So only Houses/Duchies have special rights, i.e. the right to retain their provinces even when the Duke dies.



2 – Proposed Amended wording to Rule 39(d):

(d) - Wills & Inheritance: Upon the death of a noble his land and/or Duchy goes to the Avatar(s) specified in his valid Will. A will is valid only if posted on the relating Dukes SoT entry prior to his IC death. Inheritance of Land is separate from Succession of Title and each will, should contain two clauses to cover both land and title. Hence, it is possible for a Duke to specify one Avatar to inherit his land holdings but a different one to become his Successor in Title. Also note that a Duke can nominate ANY avatar and they need not be only those within their own Feudal Chain, including the King.

Land Inheritance without a valid will: Upon the death of a noble who has no valid will (either none posted on his SoT’s or one that has become invalid due to death of relating avatars), his lands pass to the highest ranked Count or Baron within his Feudal Chain.

Title Succession without a valid will: Upon the death of a noble who has no valid will (either none posted on his SoT’s or one that has become invalid due to death of relating avatars), the King picks the successor from among the Nobles in the Duchy Feudal Chain.

3 – Proposed Additional sub-clause (g):

(g) Default Inheritance Rule: Upon the death of a noble, if a Duke is independent (as decided with above addition #1) and has no valid will (either none posted on his SoT’s or one that has become invalid due to death of relating avatars), all Lands and Titles immediately go into the King.


**I have amended this to detach the Kings involvement and to make it clearer that the King is the person land goes to by DEFAULT if there isn’t a Count or Baron within the Duchy Feudal chain for it to go to. I have also specified that there is a difference between inheriting land and being the Successor of the Duchy. Land inheritance is via the Duchy Feudal Chain automatically but the Successor of the Duchy itself is still decided by the King from the Duchy Feudal Chain, hence the two could be differing Avatars though in practice this would be unlikely.**

You seem to put a lot of emphasis on the land owning issue. Your definition of a feudal chain seems to be only people that have a province in the game. I always thought that any noble who swears an Oath belongs to a feudal chain, regardless of land ownership. And that's the way I read the rules right now. Your Amendment would shift that focus towards land owning nobles. We could get there easier if we just redefine the term feudal chain to only contain land owning nobles, if that is what we want.

Also do I read your Amendment correctly in that the King can become Duke? This goes against the penalties described in 3.f) where it says that any rulings within 3.f) supercedes other rules. So even if the Amendment passed it still wouldn't work and shouldn't actually. The Kings the King and can not be Duke. There's several pieces in the rules that refer to this.


Personally I don't think a Rule Amendment is necessary. We just need to decide on the two things:
A) What is an independent avatar?
You already covered that.
B) What is a feudal chain?
A and B are in a feudal chain if:
a) A is a vassal of B. A and B are Members of the same House and A and B own land.
b) A is a vassal of B. A and B are Members of the same House.
c) A is a vassal of B.
I always thought that b) was the case. a) is nice to have but not necessary. c) is not enough as you need a House.

After that we should get along fine with the rules we have.

[Braden]

Thinking I've over-thought it to be honest.

In my first proposal I agree that a), b) or c) could be applicable to greater or lesser extents as "independant".

I was trying to seperate Land ownership from the actual titles held...such as Baron, Duc or Count. I thought that it might make things more interesting and flexible for the players.

However I totally agree that a Vassal is as much a part of the Feudal Chain as the others although without specific title or land. I didn't mention vassals specifically as they are effectively the final link in the chain...with perhaps the exception of relatives by blood or marriage (and then its getting quite complex indeed).

The intention is they are included in the phrase but if you didn't think so then I've failed to pose that correctly.

The King cannot become a "Duc" in title, he is always the King but he can obtain a Duc's full lands if the Duc has no other to leave them too or chooses to leave them to the King in his will. Again, I mush have rushed this at work more than I wanted.

The first thing is the key however and that's what needs to be decided mainly. My amendment was just a thought but I may have gone "off on one" with that. :laugh4:

[Braden]

...aaannnd I've just realised I don't know how to post polls on these forums. Feel free to do this in my stead if you can as I've run out of thinking time tonight...gah!

1 – The Definition of a “independent land owning Noble” is:

a) An Avatar with ownership of one or more provinces but who is without vassals AND does not have a ratified Duchy.

b) An Avatar with ownership of one or more provinces but who is without vassals with a ratified Duchy.

c) An Avatar with ownership of one or more provinces, with vassals but does not have a ratified Duchy.

d) An Avatar with ownership of one or more provinces, with vassals AND has a ratified Duchy.

Not to hold up the game however, I believe that we have now Role Played our way round this to an extent (between Trist, myself and Ibn in the Council thread so after a final nod from Ibn we could continue the game whilst this is decided for the next eventuality (as they're sure to be some).

[Northnovas]

...aaannnd I've just realised I don't know how to post polls on these forums. Feel free to do this in my stead if you can as I've run out of thinking time tonight...gah!

1 – The Definition of a “independent land owning Noble” is:

a) An Avatar with ownership of one or more provinces but who is without vassals AND does not have a ratified Duchy.

b) An Avatar with ownership of one or more provinces but who is without vassals with a ratified Duchy.

c) An Avatar with ownership of one or more provinces, with vassals but does not have a ratified Duchy.

d) An Avatar with ownership of one or more provinces, with vassals AND has a ratified Duchy.

Not to hold up the game however, I believe that we have now Role Played our way round this to an extent (between Trist, myself and Ibn in the Council thread so after a final nod from Ibn we could continue the game whilst this is decided for the next eventuality (as they're sure to be some).


Poll created.

[Braden]

Thanks for that NN to say I couldn't work it out myself last night and I run my own forums is a bit embarassing. :embarassed:

[Braden]

Found/thought of something that makes this a bit easier..if we agree to this we don’t need to hold things up too long:

From the Rules - “Any province conquered and ratified becomes part of the King's Demesne”

– this is the default procedure and counts until the King actively grants a territory to a Duchy or Individual Avatar.

So “independent” as stated in the rules seems to logically apply to a “Land Owning Avatar, without a Feudal Chain”.

I take “Feudal Chain” to mean – Duke > Count > Baron > Vassal. This is the normal chain of Feudal responsibility within a Duchy and the “Feudal Chain” as stated would refer to the Duchy Feudal Chain in this instance I believe.

I do not include the King in this as it states in the rules that the King (from the Rules again) “Cannot hold any other feudal rank except that of Chancellor”.

Of course, ultimately this could mean that a Vassal has the potential to become a Duke in one turn if the House is unlucky enough to loose all its Barons and Counts that turn…but then, that’s one of the advantages of pledging fealty isn’t it?

IF the Duchy has no surviving members of its Feudal Chain then THAT is an Independent Duchy and those lands would go automatically to the King if no will stating otherwise existed.

[Braden]

Ok…I’ve just posted IC. I found the statement the King made fully granting Staufen to the Duchy of Lorraine.

I really think we can put this to bed now doesn’t everyone else? General consensus is that the term “independent” would not apply to the Duchy of Lorraine at the time of the death of Thomas.

And as the other argument the King gave was about Staufen being within the Kings Demesne is also invalid I believe we can just move on with the save I last posted.

[Ituralde]

So “independent” as stated in the rules seems to logically apply to a “Land Owning Avatar, without a Feudal Chain”.


Sorry to nitpick again, but where do you take the Land Owning part from?
Independent is any avatar that is not in a feudal chain, land is once again irrelevant.
Sorry if I come across a little tight about this, I just want us to all be on the same page OOC.

[Braden]

No, yes your correct.

"Independent" would mean an Avatar..with or without land..but without a Ratified Duchy (or a member thereof)?

[_Tristan_]

Just to keep you posted...things have quietened down... Though not out of the hospital yet (and maybe not for some time), my relative's health is improving so I will surely have time today to adavnce the save.

Without word from Zim, I'll be going forward from Braden's save and may God save us all :clown:

[Braden]

Glad to here there’s steady improvement Trist, my wishes go with you and your family.

As to the save…this is going to be interesting isn’t it. I still can’t see the IC problems going forward but I guess that’s all with Charles now?

[Tamur]

With the save on a bit of a hiatus, I guess this is a good time to ask: what's the best course of action when my interaction with the save is limited to a single move of a single character? PM the Seneschal with the move order? Update the status thread? Post it in the OOC thread?

[GeneralHankerchief]

Hi all,

First of all, much apologies for my extended absence. :embarassed: With my Gameroom commitments no longer entangling me and with the swine flu no longer kicking my butt, I figured that now would be a good time to get back into the swing of things here. I'll take some time out to catch up on all the threads, but if anybody could give me a quick summary of events it would be much appreciated. :yes:

BTW, glad to see some new (and old) faces.

[Braden]

Tamur – Any of the options you’ve stated. Often it takes more time to upload the new save, post you’ve taken it, unzip it into your PC, run the game than it is to actually conduct your move!

Largely it’ll depend on what you want to do. The Status thread can only really be used if you PM who has the Seneschal to instruct them what you want to do or join something like the Order where the Captain can make all the moves for you. I keep with the long winded method of uploading even for just a simple move myself but it depends on personal time etc.

GH!! – Awesome to have you back! As for an update…geez..where do I start?!? Hmmm…
At war with: England, HRE, Denmark and the Moors.

Just about beaten England though who has only two regions left. Moors are being pushed out of Iberia. We’ve retreated from the HRE forces as they were significantly boosted by GM intervention.

Two of the Royal Princes (Henri & Charles) have phished Daddy off over an adoption and a land exchange deal and are now fighting the resurgent HRE outside Frankfurt.

The King has used his veto’s to negate all the last sessions Edicts AND to elect himself Seneschal.

The economy is good but really only due to Louis constantly capturing and ransoming faction leaders in battle.

[Ituralde]

And no Crusade has happened anywhere!

The King is holding on to England all by himself, but has offered Britanny a share. There was no official response.

[_Tristan_]

With the save on a bit of a hiatus, I guess this is a good time to ask: what's the best course of action when my interaction with the save is limited to a single move of a single character? PM the Seneschal with the move order? Update the status thread? Post it in the OOC thread?

I'll be taking the save tonite so let me know what moves you intend and I'll be sure to make them for you.




The economy is good but really only due to Louis constantly capturing and ransoming faction leaders in battle.

... And thanks to some very advantageous realty sales by the King :clown:

[Braden]

I'll be taking the save tonite so let me know what moves you intend and I'll be sure to make them for you.



... And thanks to some very advantageous realty sales by the King :clown:

Oh gosh yeah! lol....taking settlements and selling them back for extra profit is a mainstay of some TW games. :laugh4:

[_Tristan_]

Tamur, Bart has been moved as per your orders.

I've PMed Ramses and I'll give him the 48 hours window to make a decision on whether or not he wants to fight and do it. After that, I'll withdraw his army from the battle and finish the turn.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Tamur, Bart has been moved as per your orders.

I've PMed Ramses and I'll give him the 48 hours window to make a decision on whether or not he wants to fight and do it. After that, I'll withdraw his army from the battle and finish the turn.

You must autoresolve that battle. You can't withdraw his army.


(c). - Battles: A player whose avatar leads an army that is involved in a battle will be expected to fight that battle. This will involve downloading the savegame of the battle, playing it and then uploading the resulting savegame. Uploading the post-battle save must be done within 48 hours of the pre-battle savegame being uploaded. If the deadline expires, the battle is autoresolved. If a player cannot fight a battle that is assigned to them, the battle may also be fought by any player whose avatar will also be present in the battle. Under no circumstances will a battle be fought by a player whose avatar is not present in the battle. If there is no player available to fight a battle, it must be autoresolved. If there are no allocated avatars involved in the battle at all, it must be autoresolved.

[_Tristan_]

I don't see why not. Moreover, there are other avatars in the stack so those could fihgt the battle in Ramses' stead.

And in keeping with previous games, IIRC, withdrawal was always an option if the player wasn't available. though if he can't withdraw far enough, I'll be forced to autoresolve. Anyway, I'm sure Ramses will be catch the save...

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

You must autoresolve that battle. You can't withdraw his army.

Someone wants their big bro dead so they can be crown prince :eyebrows:

[Braden]

I'd be very surprised if Ramses misses the deadline myself (48hrs is a long time), besides as Trist said there's a few active Avatars in that stack who can fight the battle in his stead.

Guess we might just be a bit impatient after such a long hiatus. :clown:

[_Tristan_]

Guess we might just be a bit impatient after such a long hiatus. :clown:

Same feeling here, though it is partly my fault... I'm happy to get back to the game and change my mind...

[Braden]

Same feeling here, though it is partly my fault... I'm happy to get back to the game and change my mind...

:laugh4:..hey, you added RP, can't say better than that. It not working out for the King just adds even more! He's got the :wall: syndrom now

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Louis' dread has reached the point that captain led AI troops often rout before his charge strikes (If they're surrounded or fighting uphill). It's almost like cheating.

Lol.. He is becoming a French version of Vlad Tepes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlad_Tepes).:laugh4:

[Ituralde]

Judging from Ramses latest report defensive battles seem to be bugged. Did anyone who had to fight a defensive battle NOT have issues afterwards with the captives? Or the bug where missile units always use flaming arrows?

I don't think there's anything we can do about it and I don't think it's serious enough to detract from our game, but it would still be good to know, so you can anticipate what happens in defensive battles.

[Ramses II CP]

I've lined the road to Cordoba with Moorish dead so far, that's for sure, but they seem to have pretty substantial forces in Iberia still. This battle was a horrible joke on the AI, not only did I have more missile troops (Despite having very few of my own) I started on top of a spectacular hill with a lot of cavalry. Even the auto-calc judged it to be about even. I wish there was a way to force the AI to be a bit more cautious.

Cordoba is still guarded by a full stack. I just hope they have a general, otherwise it's likely to be a rinse and repeat in the city walls even with my cavalry heavy force. Where in the heck did their Sultan wind up?

I wasn't sure if LTC toned down dread at all because it does get a bit overpowered IMHO. Doesn't look like it so far.

:egypt:

[_Tristan_]

:happybirthday3: Happy birthday, AG !!

:birthday2::cheerleader::elephant::belly:

[GeneralHankerchief]

:happybirthday3: Happy birthday, AG !!

:birthday2::cheerleader::elephant::belly:

Indeed. Don't celebrate too hard. :wink:

[Tamur]

Indeed. Don't celebrate too hard.

I don't think that's an option for AG. If it's a party, AG is there and ready to party - especially if there are those dancing pink elephants involved.

[Ramses II CP]

:happybirthday3: Happy birthday, AG !!

:birthday2::cheerleader::elephant::belly:

Ditto that!

:egypt:

[Cecil XIX]

:happybirthday3: Happy birthday, AG !!

:birthday2::cheerleader::elephant::belly:

I'd send you a severed head as a present, but I don't think it'd get through customs. :skull:

But no matter, have a Happy Birthday!

[Braden]

I'd send you a severed head as a present, but I don't think it'd get through customs. :skull:

But no matter, have a Happy Birthday!

yay! happy birthday!! So, what is it? 30?? (again :laugh4:)

[Northnovas]

:happybirthday3: Happy birthday, AG !!

:birthday2::cheerleader::elephant::belly:

Hey didn't you just have one last year! :clown:

Careful of those dancing pink elephants. Best Wishes AG! :balloon2:

[OverKnight]

For the sake of clarification (and the first post of the Lorraine thread): Is Staufen still in the Duchy or not?

[Braden]

I can answer: yes but not now, and as far as I believe this whole thing is behind us, but perhaps Trist needs to confirm this for us :book:

the scenario (as I believe it to be) is that it was established Staufen was firmly in the Duchy of Lorraine and had been for some time. Lorraine was not "independant" as it is a Ratified Duchy...hence the lands go to the Duc of Lorraine as promoted by the King - i.e Henri

As such Staufen is now within Charles' ownership now and Villain is a member of the Royal household.

[_Tristan_]

Hasn't it been given to Charles, rather ? Though the King would argue it is in the King's Demesne...

[Braden]

Wot Trist said...exactly that. :yes:

[AussieGiant]

Guy's!!!

Yes, I'm counting backwards now so I'm 36 going on 35!!

I recommend it for all you chaps who have hit the peak (30) and are starting the "George Clooney/Sean Connery decline with style" period. :-)

Thanks for all the best wishes.

[Braden]

Guy's!!!

Yes, I'm counting backwards now so I'm 36 going on 35!!

I recommend it for all you chaps who have hit the peak (30) and are starting the "George Clooney/Sean Connery decline with style" period. :-)

Thanks for all the best wishes.

:laugh4: by your "counting back" method and starting from 36 I'm now officially...erm...35...again..:inquisitive:..whoopss (yeah, I'm a 40 year old playing video games :thumbsdown:)

[Tamur]

yeah, I'm a 40 year old playing video games

you're not exactly alone :)

[TinCow]

Guy's!!!

Yes, I'm counting backwards now so I'm 36 going on 35!!

I recommend it for all you chaps who have hit the peak (30) and are starting the "George Clooney/Sean Connery decline with style" period. :-)

Thanks for all the best wishes.

It's all downhill after 35? Ah, hell... I better make use of my remaining few years...

Happy Birthday! :balloon2:

[Braden]

Darn-it!

Well, not had a chance to take the save tonight, I'm messaged several people to take the save through the day as I knew I couldn't make it and play that battle outside Frankfurt through though. I'm hoping at least Ituralde can take it or another of the Order Avatars as Marcus Agrippa may well miss the deadline. :sad2:

[Braden]

Having a problem with the save. For some reason, I'm moving Lorraines army into the intercept "red" zone but its not coming as re-enforcements if Henri attacks :dizzy2:

However, if I move it and then attack with the stack...Henri does come as re-enforcements. :oops:

Is that right or a "glitch"?

[Ramses II CP]

If you're sallying out of a town you need any reinforcements to be next to the town walls in order for them to arrive on the field. If they're just next to the enemy army they can't come into the battle.

:egypt:

[Braden]

Ok, think I understand and I don't think I've got them in the right red bit then. No matter.

Save is back. Run with it, still have hopes that one person from that stack wants to fight a battle! :laugh4:

[_Tristan_]

The save has been taken for almost 8 hours now by Marcus... I intended to do my senechal things on deadline but I will certainly allow a "slight" overtime for people who didn't get a chance to do their moves.

[deguerra]

Hey oldie, a belated happy bday from the younger generation :laugh4:
:balloon2::balloon2::balloon2:

At uni I'm surrounded by people who are still under 20, so being able to say that for a change is nice

Guy's!!!

Yes, I'm counting backwards now so I'm 36 going on 35!!

I recommend it for all you chaps who have hit the peak (30) and are starting the "George Clooney/Sean Connery decline with style" period. :-)

Thanks for all the best wishes.

[_Tristan_]

The save posted by Marcus Agrippa is the wrong one... The siege of Frankfurt is not lifted...

Marcus, could you quickly repost the right save ?

[Braden]

I'm messaged and emailed him to try and get this resolved ASAP.

EDIT - I have also messaged other members in the stack to see if they can take the save and re-run the battle.

[Ituralde]

That's a bummer! I won't be home and able to fight any battles until 4 hours from now. So I jus thope Marcus Agrippa gets this sorted out.

[Braden]

Other avatars in the stack include Elite_ferret with André des Vaux and shlin28 with Villain de la Salle so I'd hope someone from that list could at least fight the battle again if we get no response from Marcus Agrippa.

However, if nothing is heard from anyone in the next 2hrs I'd be content to let the save slip through as it is and let the IC re-percussions fall on those...who...have...failed...me (he said in an over the top booming voice) :laugh4:

[Tamur]

...let the IC re-percussions fall on those...who...have...failed...me

ha! oh dear, what excitement that could lead to.

[shlin28]

I'll play it :yes:

[Braden]

Villain to the rescue! :laugh4:

[_Tristan_]

As Marcus' post (or rather edit) predates Shlin's, I'll go from Marcus' save.

However, I won't be able to access the save right now so if other people have business to conduct with it please use Marcus' save.

[Braden]

Sorry to say but Marcus's save does not work. It is far too small a file and doesn't even register as a save file whilst "in game".

Use Shlin28's file.

We'll have to check with Marcus that he's got everything correct with uploading and using the save file I think.

[Braden]

Just to clarify what happened last night as I was rushing doing the posts (being hounded by the misses to get off the PC).

Downloaded and tried to use the edited version of the save Marcus put up but it didn’t show up on the save file list “in game”. Tried it several times, reloaded the game with a fresh copy after double checking it was present in the correct save file folder. Still wouldn’t show.

I finally checked the details of the file to find it was something like only 43kb in size, clearly not the complete save file we’re using which is about 2mb.

Uploaded Shlin28’s version and it worked fine.

I decided to use the working save file and moved some troops about between Avatars around Frankfurt and sending the two Order Avatars more towards Antwerp to help there.

Hope this is ok with everyone. Thought we needed a working save file rather than chasing down another copy.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Why does Charles have "King Frances' bodyguards"?
https://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh311/ibnkhaldun/TW%20games/charles.jpg
Aren't they a bit out of their time frame?
I'm not complaining since I have better BG unit than the others but I was just wondering.. is it a bug?
I noticed that Barbus Selvo and Henri also have them.

[Braden]

yeah, I noted this when I tested the save a few days back (yeah, I play the saves we use).

Full GOTHIC knights!! Sweet to look at but way before their time lol

[shlin28]

Just to clarify what happened last night as I was rushing doing the posts (being hounded by the misses to get off the PC).

Downloaded and tried to use the edited version of the save Marcus put up but it didn’t show up on the save file list “in game”. Tried it several times, reloaded the game with a fresh copy after double checking it was present in the correct save file folder. Still wouldn’t show.

I finally checked the details of the file to find it was something like only 43kb in size, clearly not the complete save file we’re using which is about 2mb.

Uploaded Shlin28’s version and it worked fine.

I decided to use the working save file and moved some troops about between Avatars around Frankfurt and sending the two Order Avatars more towards Antwerp to help there.

Hope this is ok with everyone. Thought we needed a working save file rather than chasing down another copy.

Once I extracted the save file from Marcus' zip file, its around 2mb, which should be correct. :sweatdrop:

[Braden]

Something going wrong in the conversion then somehow.

Suffice to say that no matter what, I couldn’t use that save file attached to post #507 which I didn’t understand fully but thought I’d traced it down to an undersize file.

Have you tested it in “live”?

[shlin28]

Just tested it, Marcus' file works fine :sweatdrop:

[Braden]

I was unzipping the file, putting it in the correct folder but it just wasn't reading it as a .sav file. Going back into the appropriate folder I saw that the "KofF-1120-3.sav” file was tiny.

I’ve never had any issues before and swapping to the file on your post it all went through without a hitch.

Uploading the same now and taking the time to look at the properties of what’s uploaded…yes, it seems the right size.

So, I have NO idea why it didn’t work but…thankfully…there will have been minimal differences between the saves.

I am willing to replay what I’ve done to the save since Marcus’s move if we want to go down that route.

I leave it up to Trist however as he’s controlling the game currently and I’ll bow to whatever he decides.

[Ituralde]

Longest turn evah?! :beam:

We should play off the MA save. There were only movements made afterwards which Tristan should be able to replicate. Of course that's some additional work so in the end it's up to Tristan.

[Braden]

Hell yeah!

I don't mind going off MA's save file, to be honest as long as Trist moves Charles to Staufen and refuses the adoption "Lorraine" are happy to get organised again next turn with full movement points!

Just really need Trist back and the game to start flowing again, I'm worried we're losing people.

[Ituralde]

Well I have an important test on Monday so there couldn't have been a better time for things to slow down. :2thumbsup:

[Tamur]

I wonder how many people in the game are connected closely to the academic calendar? It's crunch time number one of two before the end of the year currently, maybe that's why things are a little slow.

Regardless, it's fun to go off on alternate realities with the save... I can say from experience that Barthelemy and two units of town militia don't do well against a half-stack of Germans =)

[Braden]

I wonder how many people in the game are connected closely to the academic calendar? It's crunch time number one of two before the end of the year currently, maybe that's why things are a little slow.

Regardless, it's fun to go off on alternate realities with the save... I can say from experience that Barthelemy and two units of town militia don't do well against a half-stack of Germans =)

Could be right, in fact I’m certain a good chunk are. Guess its up to us oldies to keep it ticking over huh?

[GeneralHankerchief]

I wonder how many people in the game are connected closely to the academic calendar? It's crunch time number one of two before the end of the year currently, maybe that's why things are a little slow.

*raises hand*

Mid-December things should be fully back to normal for me. Though I did receive word that Thanksgiving is being held at my house this year - less travel time - more time to get lost in Total War. :2thumbsup:

[Tamur]

Guess its up to us oldies to keep it ticking over huh?

Unfortunately I think a few of the oldies have been permanently sucked into academics for their employment.

I'd start making jokes about the poor fools if I wasn't one of them :clown:

[deguerra]

Uni for me, but being in Australia it's nearly the end of exam period. So I should be more free in the coming weeks. That said, I am also working over the holidays.

[_Tristan_]

Sorry guys, if the game is not moving fluidly, but things keep piling up... I'll get to it Sunday afternoon at the latest (the wife will be out shopping...) and maybe earlier if I can manage...

Stay tuned, people...

[Braden]

Wives and Children...the bane of our gaming lives huh! :laugh4:

(runs before his other half sees....)

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Wives and Children...the bane of our gaming lives huh! :laugh4:

(runs before his other half sees....)

Seconded! :laugh4:

[Ramses II CP]

Why does Charles have "King Frances' bodyguards"?
https://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh311/ibnkhaldun/TW%20games/charles.jpg
Aren't they a bit out of their time frame?
I'm not complaining since I have better BG unit than the others but I was just wondering.. is it a bug?
I noticed that Barbus Selvo and Henri also have them.

That's interesting, but their stats seem in line so I'd say it's no big deal.

My time has been crunched lately, but I am definitely still intending to catch up on the stories and battle reports I owe! Perhaps today during football I can get some written, if the games stink at least.

:egypt:

[Braden]

Fingers crossed, though I have every confidence, that Ramses (or one of the other Avatars) picks up the save in the next 24hrs…I’d seriously HATE Henri becoming heir though an auto-resolve!

[Andres]

I've been avoiding this subforum for a while now.

I started pretty enthusiastic with Thierry and was looking forward to play a real jerk.

Then came holiday and I was afk for 10 days or so. I never really got back into the game and couldn't bring myself to at least try to get back in either.

I don't know how else to describe it other than "I'm no longer feeling it."

But whatever the reasons, I owed it to the fine bunch of people here to at least post something.

By the time I realised that, more than a month had already passed an I felt too embarrassed and ashamed to post here, because I let you guys down for more than a month without news.

In the meanwhile, more time has passed and, well, my behaviour could now be seen as simply rude :shame:

You can remove Thierry from the game and I grant you permission to grab your pitchforks and torches to chase me away for taking so long before posting here :embarassed: I fully deserve it.

No longer wanting to continue to play is acceptable, just staying away without giving a reason or explanation is rude and unforgivable.

I'm so sorry :shame: