Large Mafia Game Mafia IX: Triumph of the Mafia [Concluded] [Archive] - Page 5

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Methos

04-02-2010, 16:14

I find it hilarious that my 'last post' reeks of scumminess. How many times have I seen people post how ATPG's analysis is typically wrong and he ends up killing off innocents, yet none of these people bother to lynch ATPG because of it? It just seems odd. Heck, all ATPG has to do when he's mafia is continue playing like he normally does and kill off innocents and then reply, 'whoops, I guess I was wrong' and everyone ignores his error and follows his next tainted line of reasoning.

Yes, I'm not defending myself, but honestly, I don't think it matters. So instead I'm just going to point out how stupid you all are for continuously following his failed analysis while ignoring him when he's constantly wrong. Have you all ever considered that if you started putting pressure on ATPG when he's wrong, or lynching him because of it, then maybe he might start putting more thought into making his analysis correct? Right now he has no reason to, as he knows that you all won't do anything about it.

This is rather amusing.

Sasaki Kojiro

04-02-2010, 16:35

I predict that Sasaki will kill me for voting his friend Methos.

I'd like to revise the above. Check out Sasaki and Methos' antics at the end of the shlin28 lynch day. Hand of suspicion on Methos? Sure, but not like you'd actually try to kill him.

Methos votes for Sasaki before the deadline when it is clear that Sasaki won't actually be lynched for it.

Maybe because it's of personal interest to me, but this is where pizza's analysis falls apart, and questions start to appear.

1) the prediction makes no sense, revenge killing is not a strategy generally employed
2) I've attacked many people this game
3) Voting when it's clear I'm not going to be lynched doesn't do anything

Methos is moderately scummy, although I don't know that either of your cases had that much juicy stuff.

But pizza, can you tell us why you decided to do a bigger analysis this game?

Your saving grace is that you pulled this out this round instead of next round, when pushing two mislynches would give a two man team the win.

But the weak attack on me sounds like you predicting I'll jump on you, and you want to stave it off with "I told you he was methos's partner". You can say that's still happening, but the proof is in the pudding so to speak (your post that I quoted).

Sasaki Kojiro

04-02-2010, 16:39

blerg, I desperately need more time to reread everyone's posts. I've basically been reading through the new posts in a day, then voting and disappearing until the next day phase. I admit this isn't the most helpful thing to the town. vote: subotan because he has been really quiet... I think.

Sasaki, would you mind saying why you find me scummy?

unvote: subotan ; vote: methos
ATPG's case is way better than mine.

Methos' last post reeks of scumminess to me. I am very happy with my vote this round.

Mafia are much more likely to post excuses for inactivity--townies are often lurking just because they don't care/don't have time for it, and aren't going to be bothered to give an explanation.

Vote for methos is a bandwagon that also pretends he ever had a case on subo.

Third post sounds like he realized his vote post was weak, and wanted to bolster it with some conviction.

woad&fangs

04-02-2010, 16:50

1. True, but I'm not mafia
2. Yes
3. Yes

Renata

04-02-2010, 17:46

"This is so amusing" is the clarion call of the bandwagoned mafia, you know, Methos.

Methos

04-02-2010, 18:21

"This is so amusing" is the clarion call of the bandwagoned mafia, you know, Methos.

Don't you agree though? It seems weak to me, yet I know my reasons (or lack of) for what I've done. What's funny is the Sasaki vote. It was a runaway wagon on somebody, so I knew if I voted for that individual I'd appear as scummy, yet I also had to vote due to the rules. So I chose someone else and its used as evidence for my scumminess. I don't wish to be killed off in this game, but I'm fairly sure I'm going to be.

Unvote: ATPG; Vote: Woad&Frogs

Since you all don't seem to question ATPG's motives, then why not question mine? Ask me something and I'll try and answer.

GeneralHankerchief

04-02-2010, 19:25

Hello everyone from Union Station, where I'm sitting and waiting for my indefinitely delayed train to arrive... again. :wall: Unless a miracle happens, I can't see this round ending on time, so feel free to keep voting until I explicitly end things. Thanks for your understanding.

Sasaki Kojiro

04-02-2010, 19:36

Ibn-Khaldun

04-02-2010, 19:54

and then put forth ibn as his partner

Meh.. Whose partner am I? :inquisitive:
I always thought that I'm townie. At least GH sent me that role. :shrug:

Subotan

04-02-2010, 20:39

Vote:sasaki
Looking at ATPG's analysis, i'm pretty convinced that methos is a mafioso and that he will be lynched this turn. however, I fail to see the case for w&f, and sasaki's continued support for his death looks like a desperate attempt to save a scum buddy. I don't expect sasaki to be lynched, but I want to register something stronger than a fos.

Thermal

04-02-2010, 21:50

Hmmm

I thought I should say I had my first dream about this game (I never usually dream about this :laugh4:) and the mafia were:

Sasaki
Captain Blackadder

Should this mean anything? :tongue:

Ibn-Khaldun

04-02-2010, 21:53

Should this mean anything? :tongue:

This means only one thing .. you play mafia games too much!

Thermal

04-02-2010, 21:55

This means only one thing .. you play mafia games too much!

I know :shame:

Askthepizzaguy

04-02-2010, 22:03

I'm going to call BS on pizza's whole case. There is no way you can be genuinely convinced that Methos is mafia and then put forth ibn as his partner, discard that for me as his partner (based on me hos'ing him and methos voting me when it didn't matter) and disregard methos's unvote round one that saved Renata. Especially when pizza's case starts with vote analysis

I'm not sure either I made myself clear, or if you read my case. Actually I was putting forth that Ibn (for example) would be unlikely to be certain people's partners. I wasn't in fact implying that he was Methos' partner. In fact I find them unlikely to be partners based on a deadly vote one of them did on the other, which didn't end up killing them. I have it written down in my notes.

Pizza says he was intending to post the case tomorrow (much better timing for a fake mafia case--especially one that explicitly has two targets, given that two mislynches wins), but he chose today instead. I believe W&F and beefy were the only people under pressure at that point. They have both been scummy.

Actually the reason I pushed the case up to today was because of the total lack of direction this round. Halfway through the round there was a max of two votes on any candidate. If you want a guaranteed townie death, that's how you accomplish it. And yeah, I feel there is more margin for error here, should I be wrong. I would not want to be solely responsible for dooming the game with a bad case.

Tomorrow and the next day you can ignore me for all I care. I can at least say I tried.

I have been waiting all game for suspects to dwindle enough to take a stab at analysis, following other's suspects unquestioningly pretty much all game long. You don't have to listen to me, you don't have to follow me. I am asking for precisely one lynch that goes the way I ask. I've agreed to be lynched for my failure before the game ends, which would be next round given the fact that there'd only be two lynches remaining. That's a bad lynch, but you guys should have lynched me earlier when my head was closer to the block. Tincow and pever might still be with us. So, not my fault.

It seems like W&F is the viable lynch for today though.

He could very well be guilty. I could be dead wrong on everything. I just want my one shot at actually picking a scumbag from the lineup before I go, since the mafia have been so kind as to leave me alive.

Apologies if you guys are innocent. But it's not like you haven't had your chance to pick a scum this game, Sasaki.

Askthepizzaguy

04-02-2010, 22:07

Sasaki Kojiro

04-02-2010, 22:09

I see, the ibn part isn't very coherent, I skipped to the end where it looked like you had him as methos's partner. But your link of me and methos is terrible pizza.

I'm not so worried about you bringing out a double mislynch which was my impression.

Methos is a good lynch, but we should lynch W&F the next round. Further examination is bad because we want the mafia to kill suspects.

Actually we should check out Renata for the Methos connection. There interaction today is sketchy, they should be reread.

Sasaki Kojiro

04-02-2010, 22:11

I'd also like to reiterate that Methos has voted you a couple times, and you pointed a hand of suspicion on him. Why is he such a bad candidate? Why must woad die this round? You can get him next round. According to your own words, Methos has been suspicious. According to Methos, you should have been lynched at one point.

My suspicion of you was based on a misread of your post I'm afraid. Although I still do not see why you ignore the Renata connection.

You describe our interaction but do not say why it is scummy.

Your prerogative to change your mind. All I can say is, nice timing. I'm glad you "see the light" now that he's actually going to die.

What does this mean?

Askthepizzaguy

04-02-2010, 22:18

My suspicion of you was based on a misread of your post I'm afraid. Although I still do not see why you ignore the Renata connection.

You describe our interaction but do not say why it is scummy.

It's disingenuous. You've both pointed fingers at each other, but on round 2 where it was Methos 4 votes and Chaotix 5 votes, where was your vote? On Chaotix. Methos votes you round one. Nothing. You take your votes off of shlin28 and stick a hand of suspicion on Methos, when you could have, should have, voted for him. Methos votes for you, one vote, near the end of the round.

This is nothing more than distancing tactics. You've never seriously tried to kill each other, but you've made a big show of thinking each other is scummy.

Here, one of the people who has been voting for you several times (scummily, and disingenuously) is on the block, and all of a sudden woad has to die. Come now, Sasaki. Why the hesitation? You wanted people to blindly wagon woad based on zero case. I laid out a case where one of your suspects, supposedly, is scum and must die, and you voted for someone else and prodded for a wagon on that guy.

You may have legitimate reasons for all of these coincidences, but from where I sit, with my limited knowledge, you or he, or both, are full of it.

What does this mean?

You suddenly think woad is scummier than Methos, and you never suggested such until this round, to my knowledge, and not until I voted for Methos. And then, you seemed ever so casual when calling for a bandwagon to beat the two votes on Methos.

If he's one of your suspects, you should be helping to kill him. Offering another suspect is fine, I expect that. But you seem almost uncharacteristically panicky that Methos is going down, and woad has to die this round, as if it made a difference. It doesn't.

Reenk Roink

04-02-2010, 22:25

Vote: Atpg

Sasaki Kojiro

04-02-2010, 22:26

I said woad had to die because I thought you were mafia framing methos (because I misread your post). If the town believed you in that scenario it would be a very bad thing. This is what I said before I had my worries about you:

He is certainly scummy, especially with those "if I was mafia, I would have...". I have his baseline as pretty high on the scummy though. Ibn is a good suspect, but I don't see why you discount W&F.

I pointed a few fingers at methos, but it wasn't a big suspicion. What was HoS about? As as said pizza. You find a connection between me and almost everyone--I've attacked many people and backed off.

Distancing doesn't make sense as a strategy in this game. No reveals upon death, remember? And if you say you think your partner is scummy, he can easily get lynched, and then you have to explain why you aren't voting him later.

Askthepizzaguy

04-02-2010, 22:34

Distancing doesn't make sense as a strategy in this game. No reveals upon death, remember?

So, it makes sense that the two scumbags would vote for the same people often, or never accuse each other? I think you know better than that.

Kage thought that we were all scum for voting together. It doesn't have to make sense for it to be a suspicion that can get you voted to death. If you're not obviously partners, the better you both have as a chance at survival, especially when you can say "oh, but that strategy doesn't make sense" or "see, we want to kill each other, look at all these votes and hands of suspicions that went no where". Now you want to discredit the idea of distancing tactics itself, when you're a guy who admitted that you'd vote for your mafia partner in games at mafiascum.

You take risks, you know very well about distancing tactics. This is just such a game where you can do the same thing, but then claim "ah, but it wouldn't work, no reveals upon death".

Maybe I am wrong about one or both of you, but I think you're grasping at straws to say distancing tactics wouldn't make any sense in a game like this. It's about the only defensive tactic you have.

And if you say you think your partner is scummy, he can easily get lynched, and then you have to explain why you aren't voting him later.

Then you just wait until the end of the round, where it's unlikely that will happen. Gotta drag out those big, manly cojones sometime. But after some WIFOM in the writeup and several murders and accusations later, all is forgotten.

This is getting ever so close to a WIFOM defense from you, Sasaki. You're saying you wouldn't do that because it doesn't make sense. Pour me another.

Thermal

04-02-2010, 22:35

Hmm

unvote
vote: renata

Despite the possiblity, I feel some people are being to open minded and posting too much to dare being mafia. I think the culprit is amongst the type of players mafia have been lynching, quieter less controversial ones which haven't been murdered yet deserve a looking into.

Sasaki Kojiro

04-02-2010, 22:43

Askthepizzaguy

04-02-2010, 23:48

Direct distancing is a bad strategy with no benefit. It is never revealed who the mafia are, either after death or by cop. So there is never a moment where the town will reread a known mafioso and see the connections to him. You can ignore your partner completely, or say you think he's innocent, and it will have no repercussions.

No, there is never a moment where you'll reread a known mafioso and see connections to him. But, you'll see some people as suspects, and wonder why they have never voted for each other, or wonder why they vote together. The same people who don't die, round after round, when there's only so many people left to pick from as suspects. There are only so many combinations of mafiosi remaining. Those who tried to kill Ibn (for no direct benefit if they were both mafia) with a lynch vote that tied it up and nearly killed him, those people (both surviving) don't seem like they are both mafia to me. Granted, it's the long way to do things, but the only way I can be mostly positive about in a game like this. You and I are mafia, we play this exact game. What is my possible motivation for voting you early in the round, or putting you into the lead or the tie, and never letting up on that? How does that work, and what does it accomplish? Nothing.

Assuming 2 scums remaining is a good assumption. Now, which people just cannot be scum partners, because there's no WIFOM gamble to even win if you sincerely try to kill your partner? There are dozens upon dozens of combinations, mostly revolving around contentious votes. There are many people you've tried to kill this game, Sasaki. And, I had you for a time marked down as probably innocent because of that. But your censored of suspicion seemed to shrivel up whenever it got near the cold, cold air surrounding Methos. You've had numerous opportunities to go after him, and it never happened. Fizzle.

But that's only half your problem...by your standards of distancing I've "distanced" with half the living players.

But your other votes were much more dangerous. Less reversible, more risky.

You had a big argument last post that I responded to, and you didn't reply to it.

I probably won't reply to any more, either. We are going around in circles. I've explained fully my suspicions, you deny it. We vote and we decide that way.

Now, what would be more productive, assuming either of you were innocent, which is also very likely (I'm nowhere near infallible and there's nearly a dozen suspects left), then the best course of action is to switch gears and think "Okay, if I am wrong about Sasaki and/or Methos, who else is a likely candidate?" and reveal my findings tomorrow.

I suggest you do the same. It's not like either of us can actually win this debate until the game is over. :shakehands:

Sasaki Kojiro

04-02-2010, 23:57

We aren't going in circles. I'm standing still and you are running around me :beam:

I never pushed him because I didn't think he was that suspicious. There are a few people I've never really attacked. This is what you have to do pizza: start with me as scum, and look at the people I've said were suspicious and then didn't try and lynch, or the people I haven't mentioned. Then do the same for methos. You will end up with a bunch of combinations. Because it isn't evidence of much. But what you are doing is starting with methos as scum, and then jumping to me as scum and quoting our interaction as if it makes us mafia together. When there are many other people you could say that about, and it isn't sure that methos is scum anyway.

If you want to talk about productivity, don't suggest lynching townies.

Askthepizzaguy

04-03-2010, 00:03

We aren't going in circles. I'm standing still and you are running around me :beam:

If you're saying I'm running circles around you, thanks! :beam:

I never pushed him because I didn't think he was that suspicious. There are a few people I've never really attacked. This is what you have to do pizza: start with me as scum, and look at the people I've said were suspicious and then didn't try and lynch, or the people I haven't mentioned. Then do the same for methos. You will end up with a bunch of combinations. Because it isn't evidence of much. But what you are doing is starting with methos as scum, and then jumping to me as scum and quoting our interaction as if it makes us mafia together. When there are many other people you could say that about, and it isn't sure that methos is scum anyway.

Well, I can either take a stab in the dark or I can sit back and twiddle my thumbs.

If you want to talk about productivity, don't suggest lynching townies.

Townies, Sasaki? Surely you're not suggesting you know for a fact Methos is innocent. :tongue2:

If my case is so bad, Sasaki, then obviously we'd better move on and stop wasting our time talking about it. Do what you did in Godfather III when I was making wild accusations after successfully ID'ing Tevashszat... ignore me and make your own case. You did well, so do well here.

Sasaki Kojiro

04-03-2010, 00:12

I'm in 8 mafia games (!) and a bit busy with stuff. I don't want to reread the thread and make a case. I'll stick with gut and take it day by day.

Askthepizzaguy

04-03-2010, 00:14

Fair enough.

:duel: I had my quota of fun this game. I hope for our sake that I'm right on either one of you.

Methos

04-03-2010, 00:22

Beefy187

04-03-2010, 00:31

At this point everyones scummy.

Askthepizzaguy

04-03-2010, 01:10

naut

04-03-2010, 01:18

Vote: Thermal Mercury

Hi Mr. Mafioso. ~:wave:

Renata

04-03-2010, 01:29

ATPG sure is pushing this hard. Reminds me of a past game of his where he was mafia and did the same. Plus that seven man game where he was scanned mafia and still won. Just curious but how many days are left until this game is over? Makes a person wonder about his motives.

That depends to some extent whether we get (or have gotten) one mafia before the end of the game.

12 after today's lynch. 10 in the morning. Then 9 and 7, then 6. Two NKs would reduce it to four, which I expect would be a Mafia victory if both are still alive. Not if one is dead. Then we go one more lynch for the win or loss. So in practicality:

-- 2 more lynches after today to get at least one mafia.
-- 1 more lynch after that if there's still one left.

I want to say why I think you're suspicious enough to vote for, almost regardless of ATPG's more complex analysis. The main reason is that your votes have been ENTIRELY (not even one exception) for high-profile, analytical players. That's mafia-friendly voting right there. You never voted for a lurker, never for a middle-of-the-road player. ATPG, Sigurd, Sasaki, TinCow. No exceptions.

Then there's your unvote of me. This one's really hard to read. But that vote was several hours prior to end of day, and there was no way to know the unvote would be definitive at the time you cast it. Objectively speaking it was as likely to lynch me (on last-minute reaction votes) as to save me. Against you is the fact that it's really easy, as mafia, to judge someone as so "obviously" townie that an unvote would be justified. Seems like just about every other game I play somebody gives me too much benefit of the doubt and turns out to be mafia. In your favor is that such a move was tremendously risky, and in fact almost did get you lynched the following day.

AtPG, I notice you're practically using the same argument against Sasaki that you dismissed out of hand when I brought it up to you the other day. Care to explain? There's also the matter of the notes you promised me: if I'm to give you townie credit for actually doing all this work, you'd better produce it, right?

Renata

04-03-2010, 01:40

My suspicion of you was based on a misread of your post I'm afraid. Although I still do not see why you ignore the Renata connection.

Hmm, now you're looking a bit scummier. If there's a connection between Methos and me that you think is suspicious, why haven't you pursued either of us? (And you must find it suspicious, else Pizza's omission of it shouldn't be cause for concern, right?) Why are you not happy to vote Methos now?

In any case, please refer to my previous post, and refer back to the timing of Methos' unvote on Day One. It came several hours prior to the end of the day, and at the time he cast it, there was no reason to suspect it would be definitive - and furthermore even if it was, there was no reason to suspect it would be definitive in my favor. A half dozen people could have wandered by before the end of the phase, seen that unvote, found it questionable, and voted AGAINST me. i really don't know why it didn't happen. I was off to work at that time, and fully expected to find myself lynched when I returned. If anything that unvote should have suggested we were not both mafia.

How do you see it, Sasaki?

Askthepizzaguy

04-03-2010, 01:43

Instead of replying to you, Renata, I would prefer to read a poem I wrote, warning people of the greatest evil of our generation.

The highly improbable tale of Askthepizzaguy

Well he's seven feet tall and 6 feet wide
He's almost 6 tons of all-American pride
He's Pizzaguy..... Askthepizzaguy.
He's won every game he was ever in
His logic sends the sane to the looney bin
He's Pizzaguy..... Askthepizzaguy.
He can eat men's souls, that's how he thrives
With just a single post, he can control their minds
He's Pizzaguy..... Askthepizzaguy.
He can type much faster than you've ever seen
He's a long-winded, never finished, word makin' machine
He's Pizzaguy..... Askthepizzaguy.
Well he's nine feet tall and he's 12 feet wide
He can chew bubble gum without breaking stride
He's Pizzaguy..... Askthepizzaguy.
Well you've got to scan him right away
Or block him or murder him before the second day
He's Pizzaguy..... Askthepizzaguy.
Because if you don't you'll certainly fail
There's never been a more dangerous human male
He's Pizzaguy..... Askthepizzaguy.
Others accuse people all of the time
But if Pizzaguy does it, it's proof of crime!
He's Pizzaguy..... Askthepizzaguy.
Well he's 12 feet tall and a stadium wide
There are man-eating gorillas strapped to his hide
He's Pizzaguy..... Askthepizzaguy.
And if you don't believe what I say
You poor foolish fool, you're going to pay.
There's a pentagram tattooed to his head
And he'll grind your bones to make his bread
He'll break your spine and eat your toes
And even wear your skin at fashion shows
He'll eat your heart and he'll drink your lungs
While his head spins around and he speaks in tongues
He's Pizzaguy..... Askthepizzaguy!!!

naut

04-03-2010, 01:43

Ok. I'll switch out of joke mode for a moment, but whenever I'm serious I die so meh. Seriously almost every game I play I survive to about round 6+ and then I get lynched because well, I guess I'm not a very good player, or the more powerful personalities in the game push the votes through.

but there's one thing for sure, he's 12 feet tall and made entirely out of lies! He's a superhuman threat to us all! We can't let him win the game, can we, fellow townies? No. No, I say we all stand up, and all agree that Askthepizzaguy is like chancellor Palpatine... too dangerous to be kept alive. He speaks with a silver tongue but he's going to kill us all, I tells ya!
The thing is ATPG you are one of those strong personalities. Along with Reenk, Sasaki and a few others depending on circumstances. And very rarely, (unless one of the other strong personalities does), anyone votes for you in a serious attempt to get you lynched. Why? Because they are afraid of the consequences, and they know that you will probably just turn the votes around against them. Most games I've played with the strong personalities this happens, regardless of roles.

At this point everyones scummy.
I advise communal showers be installed in the gameroom to reduce levels of scummyness.

Hmm

unvote
vote: renata

Despite the possiblity, I feel some people are being to open minded and posting too much to dare being mafia. I think the culprit is amongst the type of players mafia have been lynching, quieter less controversial ones which haven't been murdered yet deserve a looking into.
Scum post. Slow and deliberate. To much thinking in too few words to be a town post. The scummiestest post I have seen today and yesterday combined. "Despite the possiblity" - irrelevant, this is a game of possibility and chance, why mention it. The two remaining sentences are just hilarious, the "culprit" isn't one of the players in the forefront is it? With no regard to who is and who isn't in the forefront? No. Sorry. Incorrect. Try again Mr. Mafioso.

GeneralHankerchief

04-03-2010, 01:46

Train arrived, voting closed.

Stand by for the execution.

Renata

04-03-2010, 01:49

On balance, ATPG, I'd really rather have the reply. :bow:

You know I don't subscribe to that, anyway.

Askthepizzaguy

04-03-2010, 02:00

Sure, sure. I just needed to poke fun at myself for a bit. I'll send you what I have.

GeneralHankerchief

04-03-2010, 02:16

A chill wind blew through Frontroom Square as the day's voting proceedings were wrapping up. The more superstitious among the remaining townspeople attributed this to the fact that there were exactly thirteen of them left; a bad omen indeed. Out of those thirteen, one or more traitors lurked among them, being their comrades in the day but plotting to kill them once the sun went down.

Nevertheless, the voting continued.

Perhaps inspired by Chief of Police Lemur's speech, the villagers had finally decided to adapt a serious tone in their discussions, realizing that there was no more time to dawdle. The thirteen of them being left, aside from being a bad omen, was also indicative of how close the townspeople were edging to extinction. There weren't that more days for them to get things right, and they all knew it. Cases started to get more serious, accusations started to get more sober, and tempers started to run high.

However, not all of the town was fully ingratiated into this "buckle down" mode, at least not yet. This was evidenced by them choosing to lynch the person who had the biggest - but not necessarily the most accurate - case against him: Methos.

Methos, for his part, took to his defense with gusto, but was perhaps a little bit too shrill and not logical enough. For the most part, his arguments consisted of him shrilly screaming that certain townspeople had too much power and they shouldn't be blindly followed in case they were the ones who were leading the town astray.

"You people need to think for yourselves!" he cried out. "Stop following the loudest people because it's convenient! Our lives are all at stake here! Convenience doesn't mean squat when you're six feet under! Think, people! THINK!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

"All right, that's enough," said Lemur, putting an end to Methos's diatribe. "A select group of townies may have all the power, but I'm still Chief of Police here, which means I'm still in charge of the executions. And for today, I've used my knowledge of physics to devise what I hope will be a particularly entertaining execution for you all."

Lemur paused for a second, directing everyone's attention to the execution platform. "As you may be able to notice, the platform is weighted. This is because I have made some minor adjustments to it overnight. Below the platform, out of sight, is a rope that is only kept taut because of the weight. If left slack, it will no longer hold up the pile of rocks I have positioned on the building above, meaning the rocks will come tumbling down and crush the life out of Methos. However, there is one way you can prolong your life, my friend. My modifications have also taken into account short bursts of weight to keep you going. Therefore, you shall dance to a progressively faster rendition of 'Yakety Sax', staying with the beat of course. If you stop dancing, or don't keep up with the beat, then it's rock pile time. But since I'm so magnanimous, I'll allow you to go free if you can survive the entire song. So... let's get dancing!"

Lemur queued up the song and nervously, Methos started to dance, doing his best to keep up in time with the classic saxophone-driven song from Benny Hill. However, this was no easy task. It started out difficult, and, as the song wore on and sped up, became impossible. Methos was able to last for a little over two minutes before he finally tired out. Everyone, Methos included, looked up as they heard the sounds of the pile of rocks being shifted.

However, they did not fall on Methos. Instead, they fell on a large block of wood jutting out from one of the platform's sides. This wood was obviously connected with the part of the platform that Lemur had modified, for Methos was sent flying dozens of feet into the air.

"Pull!" Lemur yelled, and then, taking aim at Methos, blew him out of the sky with a hunting rifle that had appeared from seemingly nowhere.

"What?" he said, not looking even remotely sheepish to the rest of the town. "I'm going duck hunting in a couple of days and this is good practice! What are you all looking at! Go home!"

Day 7 tally:
Methos: 6 (ATPG, Renata, Blackadder, woad, Beefy, Ibn) :skull:
woad&fangs: 2 (Sasaki, Methos)
Beefy187: 1 (Kage)
Sasaki Kojiro: 1 (Subotan)
Askthepizzaguy: 1 (Reenk)
Renata: 1 (Thermal)
Thermal Mercury: 1 (Psychonaut)

Abstained: 0
Didn't vote: 0

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Still alive: (12)
Sasaki Kojiro
Askthepizzaguy
Beefy187
Kagemusha
Subotan
Captain Blackadder
Renata
Thermal Mercury
Ibn-Khaldun
woad&fangs
Psychonaut
Reenk Roink

Wrath of God:
Cultured Drizzt fan

Killed:
Crazed Rabbit
Andres
atheotes
Double A
Centurion1
Csargo
Winston Hughes
johnhughthom
spL1tp3r50naL1ty
White_eyes:D
Secura
Beskar
Joooray
pevergreen

Executed:
Diamondeye
Chaotix
Yaseikhaan
Sigurd
shlin28
TinCow
Methos

Askthepizzaguy

04-03-2010, 02:31

Tonight, I have placed an apple on my head, and I am standing next to a tree. There are several varied weapons nearby... ranging from the classic bow and arrow, to the rather inaccurate shotgun, all the way to the diseased cow launcher. Think of something creative, and don't let me die with even a shred of dignity. :smile:

GeneralHankerchief

04-03-2010, 03:36

Orders are due at 21:00 US Eastern tomorrow, btw.

Sasaki Kojiro

04-03-2010, 03:41

Hmm, now you're looking a bit scummier. If there's a connection between Methos and me that you think is suspicious, why haven't you pursued either of us? (And you must find it suspicious, else Pizza's omission of it shouldn't be cause for concern, right?) Why are you not happy to vote Methos now?

In any case, please refer to my previous post, and refer back to the timing of Methos' unvote on Day One. It came several hours prior to the end of the day, and at the time he cast it, there was no reason to suspect it would be definitive - and furthermore even if it was, there was no reason to suspect it would be definitive in my favor. A half dozen people could have wandered by before the end of the phase, seen that unvote, found it questionable, and voted AGAINST me. i really don't know why it didn't happen. I was off to work at that time, and fully expected to find myself lynched when I returned. If anything that unvote should have suggested we were not both mafia.

How do you see it, Sasaki?

I pointed it out after it happened, but didn't place much stock in it (this is one of the things pizza claims is distancing). I brought it up to point out that if pizza was looking for methos's scum partners, his ignoring of you didn't make sense. I had a few theories about it go through my head today but I never reread it to check on them.

Methos

04-03-2010, 04:44

Lol! That was hilarious! Excellent lynch story.

Thermal

04-03-2010, 09:08

Psychonaut, I simply changed my vote from beefy because he spoke and genuinely, as he is busy with uni and seemed innocent, it was a ploy to get conversation which was issued by ATPG.

I don't doubt my flawed reasoning even one bit so don't question it :beam: .

Also, by constantly pressuring me you make it unlikely that mafia will ever lynch me, had you of not breathed a word I may have been dead tonight, instead the suspicion will keep on rising, thanks!

Askthepizzaguy

04-03-2010, 10:36

Also, by constantly pressuring me you make it unlikely that mafia will ever lynch me, had you of not breathed a word I may have been dead tonight, instead the suspicion will keep on rising, thanks!

= Reason why I never die at night. Not because I'm mafia of course. :tongue2:

pevergreen

04-03-2010, 11:59

[Entirely unnecessary - GH]

Beefy187

04-03-2010, 22:42

I won't have internet access from 15 min from now for 48 hours or so.

Sasaki Kojiro

04-03-2010, 22:49

I won't have internet access from 15 min from now for 48 hours or so.

If you're mafia...

GeneralHankerchief

04-04-2010, 04:20

Sorry everyone for the delay, I was out with friends and family. Kills will be up momentarily.

GeneralHankerchief

04-04-2010, 05:28

Day breaks in the Frontroom. All is quiet. The white van, obliterated as part of necessity in yesterday's murder, had been replaced. The mafioso's new vehicle mooed as she sauntered down the street.

*ding dong*

Beefy187 opened the door, staring past the mafioso, instead at Bessie. "That's a very... interesting cow," he said, perhaps seeing something in common with Bessie. "Anyway, what can I help you with?"

"Salesman," the mafioso said, taking out a giant pot from behind him. "I'm here to sell giant pots as a representative of, uh, the Make-a-Wish Foundation. Yeah, that's it. If you buy a pot, you get to help a dying child's greatest wish come true. Could I interest you in a demonstration?"

"Well, I don't really need a giant pot," said Beefy, "but I'd like nothing more than to put a smile on a child's face. After all, with so many horrible things happening the world, I like to think there's a little good out there."

"That's the spirit," said the salesman, stepping into the house uninvited. "As a matter of fact, you'll learn that giant pots can be quite useful, especially if cooking for a large quantity of people. Ultimately they save stove space and even make for more uniform meals, since the quality of the food in question is less dependent on each individual pot's quirks and composition. Here, let me show you what can happen with certain types of foods. My first example will by cheese fondue, provided by the lovely Miss Bessie who is currently parked outside."

"Ooh, sounds tasty," said Beefy.

"It is," agreed the salesman. "You'll also find that, contrary to science, it doesn't take as long as you'd expect to fully boil items due to the large surface area. That's another quality about the pot that I think you'll particularly enjoy. See, look, the fondue's already starting to heat up," the salesman said. "Why don't you lean over there and really get a good look at it... yeah, that's good, a little more..."

When Beefy had fully invested himself in determining the current state of the cheese fondue, the mafioso, whistling a little tune, calmly gave Beefy a little push and sent him tumbling into the giant pot, where he boiled at a rather quick pace along with the rest of the fondue.

Deep underground, Captain Blackadder was slaving away at his pet project. Relatively quiet and uninvested in the town's larger concerns, Blackadder had more important things on his mind. The Frontroom's particle accelerator, far larger than the Large Hadron Collider, would finally be operating at full capacity today after years of preparation. What importance was a few deaths when compared the the potential discovery of the Higgs-Bosun and the revelation of the greatest mysteries of the universe?

"Powering up," he said to himself, reading off the notifications on his computer screen, "all systems operational, wait, what? Fatal error in Quadrant 13? What could possibly be going on over there?" He tried to work around it, but the computer simply refused to allow the accelerator to operate while the problem in Quadrant 13 went unresolved. Grumbling to himself, Blackadder got in his cart and drove off to the quadrant in question.

Upon arrival, he immediately saw the problem: Someone had drilled a man-sized hole in the actual accelerator, which naturally caused the computer to abort the operation. As he stared at the hole in puzzlement, he did not notice the mafioso approaching him from behind with a frying pan, whacking him in the back of the head. Blackadder crumpled to the ground, momentarily unconscious. Using this time wisely, the mafioso quickly picked Blackadder up and stuffed him into the hole, managing to weld it shut right before Blackadder woke up.

After banging on the metal a few times, Blackadder realized it was useless and took in his surroundings. After all his work in helping the particle accelerator become operational, Blackadder had never quite been in the inside. It was here, after all, in the bowls of the accelerator itself where the science would be done, and perhaps, history would be made...

He heard a low hum, progressively getting louder. It was then, Blackadder realized, that there were some drawbacks to witnessing history up close. As a matter of fact, these were the very last thoughts that went through his head before two separate atoms smashed into him simultaneously, both traveling at the beyond-fatal 99.999999% of light speed.

Later that day, Chief of Police Lemur gathered everyone in the Frontroom Square in order to make an announcement.

"All right everyone," he said, "Here's where we're at. We're down to ten left. Assuming the usual pattern of their being two kills per night holds, you have three rounds to get this right before we're all wiped out. Hopefully, it won't get down to that, but that's where we're at. Good luck, and may the Force be with you."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Still alive: (10)
Sasaki Kojiro
Askthepizzaguy
Kagemusha
Subotan
Renata
Thermal Mercury
Ibn-Khaldun
woad&fangs
Psychonaut
Reenk Roink

Wrath of God:
Cultured Drizzt fan

Killed:
Crazed Rabbit
Andres
atheotes
Double A
Centurion1
Csargo
Winston Hughes
johnhughthom
spL1tp3r50naL1ty
White_eyes:D
Secura
Beskar
Joooray
pevergreen
Beefy187
Captain Blackadder

Executed:
Diamondeye
Chaotix
Yaseikhaan
Sigurd
shlin28
TinCow
Methos

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Announcement: Mafia IX has officially entered the endgame phase (yes, I have official designations). Until the game ends, the following rule changes will be in effect:

- Abstain is no longer allowed; you must vote for a living target in order for your vote to be registered as valid.
- WoGs are still in effect, so there are still no free rides.
- The "make or break" round, if there is one, will be extended to 48 hours, as is customary.

This round will most likely be 24 hours, however, there is a chance it will be extended to 36 depending on how tired I feel tomorrow night. I'll let you know closer to the deadline.

Best of luck to all parties! :bow:

Sasaki Kojiro

04-04-2010, 05:42

Woad and Kage are my top two at the moment. Kage kind of disappeared after showing up to defend himself.

Secura

04-04-2010, 05:50

seireikhaan

04-04-2010, 06:36

Ten players left, but how many mafia? Has the town managed to lynch one so far or are we up against the original two?

I get the feeling that the game's title is about to be realised.

Having said that, I feel your suspicions are well-placed, Sasaki, particularly Kagemusha; he's dropped completely off the radar and hasn't been his usual talkative self for quite a while. I miss his posts.
Nope, this is where the mafia are about to be caught. They cannot be allowed to win. The Mafia series is notorious for shutting the trap on a nearly certain mafia victory. I'll be back to try and actually be useful, probably in the morning.

Askthepizzaguy

04-04-2010, 07:01

seireikhaan

04-04-2010, 09:18

Askthepizzaguy

04-04-2010, 10:26

Yeah. I'll buy that. Especially the parts about me.

Very well....

unvote, vote: Thermal Mercury

I follow my dear leader, even while he's dead.

naut

04-04-2010, 11:27

I support the lynching of TM as stated in a previous elucidation.

Also I'm a perfectly good lynch target, as I will be away for the end game and won't be of any use to my fellow townies.

Methos

04-04-2010, 13:56

Reenk Roink

04-04-2010, 15:36

Kage has very good reasons for not posting as much right now as he might usually do (also anyone who thinks that this is some Mafia ploy is likely just attributing to Kage their own overvaluing of Mafia games).

Vote: Atpg

FoS: TM

naut

04-04-2010, 15:40

I'm still not that familiar with .org players, but its obvious to me that both Sasaki and ATPG are one of the really good ones. So why are they still alive? Assuming that they're both town, the only reason the mafia hasn't killed them is if the mafia feel that they can outsmart Sasaki and ATPG. In order to do that, that would mean it would have to be someone who has been here long enough to believe they know how Sasaki and ATPG play. Granted, this could also be used if either Sasaki or ATPG was mafia and keeping the other alive for the same reason I suggested above.

The long term .org players would know better then me if my suggestion had any accuracy to it.
General Mafia tactic when picking who to kill is semi-lurkers and moderate players. Players like Sasaki, et al. are left because people are always suspicious of them, regardless of roles, why kill someone who is inherently suspicious? The Mafia won't go near them with a yard stick unless they see them as a direct threat, because as the game progresses and they stay alive they will inevitably pick each other off.

From the writeup, I'm guessing there's still two mafia.
No way to tell. Mafia always get two kills regardless of how many are left in GH's Mafia series.

What is this beating up of the self? You know very well you're a good player, because you beat me in Family Guy mafia after you were the final mafia and my main suspect.

I smell the dangerously wine-scented odor of guilt all over you, Psychonaut.
How many games have I been Mafia? Or indeed any role worthy of note?

The Legend of Davenport - Mafia. Some of the worst playing I have ever seen in my life. Looking back at that thread makes me embarrassed.
Pre School Mafia - Bully. I played terribly, gave myself away to Sasaki after 2 rounds, was lynched.
Psycho Mafia - Schizophrenic/Multi-personality. Sheer luck in a very confusing and enjoyable game.
Trapped in Taormina - Detective. Gave away too much detail against the rules and was rightfully WoGed/suicided.
Simpson's Mafia - Detective. Got killed and didn't do much.
Dark Vacuum - Mafia. Myself and my team killed by round 4. Sloppy play.
Netherworld II - SK's bodyguard. Snuck into the last day and got lynched. Nothing spectacular just some average semi-lurking and a bit of luck that there were more obvious targets to go after.
Shadow Fort - ???. Didn't play well at all, got lynched.
Family Guy Mafia - Mafia. Faked role PM and some good team play by Quintus J Cicero got me to victory. But I snuck by there, nothing spectacular.

As far as playing ability goes I'm distinctly average.

Quite honestly I think the Mafia are a combination of either TM and ? or ATPG and ?. This phase will reveal more. But wrong target here today and we are toast.

Sasaki Kojiro

04-04-2010, 17:17

Not seeing much on Thermal.

Vote:woad&fangs

Pizza, why on earth did you act like you were going to try and lynch me today, and then come out and vote psychonaut, and then switch to thermal?

Thermal

04-04-2010, 18:06

I suggest the town vote for Thermal Mercury. Voting pattern is highly suspicious. Avoided "bandwagon" votes quite often, with exception to one round, in which he helped thoroughly bury myself, as well as being a deciding vote caster on TinCow(an absurd lynch, btw). The WIFOM of the pizza writeups, combined with TM's "gentle nudge" that ATPG be lynched is also suspicious. He's got a lot of posts, but hasn't, but many of them have been on the fluffier side. Please strongly consider lynching him.

Voting Pattern is highly suspicious? You don't explain how...

Avoiding bandwagons is suspicious? :shocked: If the only bandwagon I did was against you I can see the bitterness but I don't see any scummyness in not bandwagonning because a lot of the targets being bandwagonned are bad ones in my opinion, just because the majority want someone dead it doesn't mean there right.

I was happy to lynch ATPG on one round, the clues are creeping out of the write ups, I don't know what to make of that. Either way Pizzaguy was strongly suggested in the write up and rather the opposite to me almost always bandwagons, which according to you wouldn't be scummy? :inquisitive: Either way these things aren't exactly solid enough for a lynch, everyone agreed he needs to be killed eventually, though I'm not so sure he will be now (not sure if thats a good or bad thing :shrug: )

I have a lot of posts but hasn't? hmm? I started off with larger posts but as the game progresses strangely I've found less to say.

If your best case on me is that my posts are 'fluffier' than other peoples, then you haven't convinced me that I'm mafia.

Thermal

04-04-2010, 18:08

Also I'm a perfectly good lynch target, as I will be away for the end game and won't be of any use to my fellow townies.

Good lynch target at this point, Are you mad? You don't come across as sincere to me. No use? Well if we still have two mafia and your town you won't be much use dead either.

Post 1061 is irregular analytic for you too and your one of the low key players (like renata) that haven't been lynched yet, why would that be?

Well perhaps you are a good lynch target as you say you are.

vote: psychonaut

Secura

04-04-2010, 18:12

Ibn-Khaldun

04-04-2010, 18:30

Beskie and I joked on Friday that it would be pretty hilarious if both Pizza and Sasaki were the mafia.

This makes me wonder if I should follow the #1 Mafia rule and Vote: Sasaki.

woad&fangs

04-04-2010, 18:35

Could someone tell me how Renata's play in this game compares to her normal playing style? I don't have enough experience playing with her to make a judgment one way or another. Thermal Mercury seems scummy to me but I don't know why. I could see Sasaki being mafia if Methos was the other mafia, otherwise he doesn't seem that scummy to me. Subotan, Reenk, and Kage all seem to disengaged from the game to be mafia. Psychonaut's comments this round are curious.... and I'm not sure what to think about I-K and ATPG.

blah, I don't know who to vote for.

Kagemusha

04-04-2010, 18:36

Woad and Kage are my top two at the moment. Kage kind of disappeared after showing up to defend himself.

I tend to disappear like this during Saturdays and Sundays atleast for a month from now. Like i told you in Shadow fort. The project im working on right now requires me to work during weekends.

Thermal

04-04-2010, 18:36

blah, I don't know who to vote for.

Psychonaut :yes:

Hes trying the whole 'lynch me if you must' 'what will be will be' 'I'm a bad player' yeah right! I don't buy it, your choice of course :juggle:

woad&fangs

04-04-2010, 18:38

why not...

vote: psychonaut

Kagemusha

04-04-2010, 18:45

Vote: Psychonaut. That srange vote of his to ATGP during the tie vote between Tincow and pever still ahunts me. Many times during tie votes. Mafia do stupid stunts as they feel secure. Still though im getting bit worried how people who seem the less suspicious after several reasons seem to die immediately after such occasions. That would point to a experienced mafia player that wants to keep the more controversial high profile players alive for the end.

Sasaki Kojiro

04-04-2010, 18:54

Psychonaut's comments this round are curious....

blah, I don't know who to vote for.

Psychonaut :yes:

Hes trying the whole 'lynch me if you must' 'what will be will be' 'I'm a bad player' yeah right! I don't buy it, your choice of course :juggle:

why not...

vote: psychonaut

:stare:

More votes on woad please.

seireikhaan

04-04-2010, 18:55

Voting Pattern is highly suspicious? You don't explain how...

Avoiding bandwagons is suspicious? :shocked: If the only bandwagon I did was against you I can see the bitterness but I don't see any scummyness in not bandwagonning because a lot of the targets being bandwagonned are bad ones in my opinion, just because the majority want someone dead it doesn't mean there right.

I was happy to lynch ATPG on one round, the clues are creeping out of the write ups, I don't know what to make of that. Either way Pizzaguy was strongly suggested in the write up and rather the opposite to me almost always bandwagons, which according to you wouldn't be scummy? :inquisitive: Either way these things aren't exactly solid enough for a lynch, everyone agreed he needs to be killed eventually, though I'm not so sure he will be now (not sure if thats a good or bad thing :shrug: )

I have a lot of posts but hasn't? hmm? I started off with larger posts but as the game progresses strangely I've found less to say.

If your best case on me is that my posts are 'fluffier' than other peoples, then you haven't convinced me that I'm mafia.
Of course its suspicious to avoid bandwagons. Mafia know that bandwaggoners tend to be lynched. Thus, the better tell of a mafioso is who's been doing their best to avoid bandwagons. Sadly, there's about three others who've been up to the same nonsense. Your posting seemed a bit more suspicious than the others, so you're the one I find most suspicious at the moment.

Although its entirely reasonable to lynch Psychonaut right now, I think TM is a better choice. I think that the lynching of Psychonaut is just... I dunno, I'll find the right phrasing for it eventually.

Subotan

04-04-2010, 19:00

Vote:ThermalMercury
Anything to irritate dear Sasaki after the Shadow Fort fiasco :beam:

Sasaki Kojiro

04-04-2010, 19:02

Yesterday you thought I was mafia, why the change?

woad&fangs

04-04-2010, 19:04

:stare:

More votes on woad please.

You're wrong, but your tenaciousness has pretty much convinced me that you are innocent. Thanks for knocking another suspect off my list. It will make it so much easier to do analysis.

Sasaki Kojiro

04-04-2010, 19:15

Thermal is certainly an acceptable lynch. Psycho is not a great one.

Ibn would be a good lynch as well, I may have to push that if no one thinks woad is scummy.

I should really reread :/

woad&fangs

04-04-2010, 19:22

What are your opinions on Pizza and Renata?

Ibn-Khaldun

04-04-2010, 19:23

Thermal is certainly an acceptable lynch. Psycho is not a great one.

Ibn would be a good lynch as well, I may have to push that if no one thinks woad is scummy.

I should really reread :/

You are just as good lynch candidate as the rest of us.
Perhaps even better than anyone else.
You saying ".. I may have to push that if no one thinks woad is scummy.." makes you look even scummier.

FoS: Sasaki

woad&fangs

04-04-2010, 19:25

unvote psychonaut; vote: Ibn-Khaldun

being rather defensive now, aren't we ~:inquisitive:

Sasaki Kojiro

04-04-2010, 19:26

What are your opinions on Pizza and Renata?

You are just as good lynch candidate as the rest of us.
Perhaps even better than anyone else.

Why? The reason you gave was "makes me wonder if I should go with rule #1", yes?

You saying ".. I may have to push that if no one thinks woad is scummy.." makes you look even scummier.

FoS: Sasaki

Why? If people aren't voting for the person I think is most likely to be mafia, I shouldn't try to get them to vote for the 2nd most likely? Although I should reread thermal.

Ibn-Khaldun

04-04-2010, 19:31

Perhaps allowing people to vote as they want and not pushing them to vote the way you want will make you look not like a mafia who tries to control the game?

Sasaki Kojiro

04-04-2010, 19:34

Sigurd: 4 (Beskar, ATPG, Subotan, Methos)
Ibn-Khaldun: 4 (Psychonaut, woad, Sasaki, TinCow)

Based on this, if ibn is mafia it would seem like subo is the likely partner. This was subo's vote in the tie breaker, odd:

Inky Pinky Ponky, Daddy bought a donkey. Donkey died, daddy cried. Inky Pinky Ponky!

Vote:Sigurd

But at one point the voting was like this:

Sigurd (Beskar, Atpg, Subotan)
Sasaki (TM, Joooray)
Ibn (Psycho, w&f)

Reading over it looks like subo voted sigurd before any votes were on ibn. So if ibn is mafia, it went to a tie without any mafia voting to save him, and with three living players on the ibn wagon.

Thermal

04-04-2010, 19:40

Thermal is certainly an acceptable lynch. Psycho is not a great one.

Ibn would be a good lynch as well, I may have to push that if no one thinks woad is scummy.

I should really reread :/

As W& F asks what are your opinions are Renata and ATPG?

Also why isn't psychonaut a great lynch?

Why do you say you don't find me suspicious in one breath, then say I'm a good choice in the next?

Sasaki Kojiro

04-04-2010, 19:41

Perhaps allowing people to vote as they want and not pushing them to vote the way you want will make you look not like a mafia who tries to control the game?

Perhaps allowing me to argue as I want and not pushing me to argue the way you want will yadda yadda.

*************
Day 5
shlin28: 3 (ATPG, Blackadder, shlin)
Methos: 2 (Psychonaut, Ibn)
Thermal Mercury: 2 (woad, Joooray)
Subotan: 2 (Sasaki, TinCow)

This looks like another interesting day to me and worth a reread. It seems like people were ok with thermal and subotan being at the mercy of shlin's self vote.

-edit-

@thermal: I'm working here

Thermal

04-04-2010, 19:42

Sigurd: 4 (Beskar, ATPG, Subotan, Methos)
Ibn-Khaldun: 4 (Psychonaut, woad, Sasaki, TinCow)

Based on this, if ibn is mafia it would seem like subo is the likely partner. This was subo's vote in the tie breaker, odd:

But at one point the voting was like this:

Sigurd (Beskar, Atpg, Subotan)
Sasaki (TM, Joooray)
Ibn (Psycho, w&f)

Reading over it looks like subo voted sigurd before any votes were on ibn. So if ibn is mafia, it went to a tie without any mafia voting to save him, and with three living players on the ibn wagon.

Interesting....and entirely feasible...

Secura

04-04-2010, 19:43

Why do you say you don't find me suspicious in one breath, then say I'm a good choice in the next?

Plausible townie bluff, keeps mafia on their toes because they cannot be certain if that townie truly suspects them or not, possibly keeps townie alive.

Thermal

04-04-2010, 19:46

Plausible townie bluff, keeps mafia on their toes because they cannot be certain if that townie truly suspects them or not, possibly keeps townie alive.

Well two townies are going to die anyway, an attempt to direct who dies?

Also ATPG's handy vote thingy.

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=ti5JFj5hAFzAys8vsruTFfQ&hl=en

Secura

04-04-2010, 19:50

Well two townies are going to die anyway, an attempt to direct who dies?

That suggests that you openly suspect Sasaki then, correct?

Personally I think he's been suspect the entire game, but that doesn't necessarily make him scum, it's simply an inherent aspect of his playing style... but why hasn't he been lynched by now? Why has the town chosen to lynch others for what has been, in all honesty, absolutely awful reasoning and left someone like Sasaki alive? Or Pizza, for that matter?

Sasaki Kojiro

04-04-2010, 19:52

Day 5 was the day I hos'd methos for his terrible bandwagon vote on shlin. Maybe we struck paydirt with that lynch.

The wagon on shlin was pretty strong for a while though and looked like it would continue. So I don't think what I said about those guys with 2 votes looking good holds up.

Subotan seems to have avidly avoided bandwagons from the few days I've reread.

Thermal

04-04-2010, 19:55

Of course its suspicious to avoid bandwagons. Mafia know that bandwaggoners tend to be lynched. Thus, the better tell of a mafioso is who's been doing their best to avoid bandwagons. Sadly, there's about three others who've been up to the same nonsense. Your posting seemed a bit more suspicious than the others, so you're the one I find most suspicious at the moment.

Although its entirely reasonable to lynch Psychonaut right now, I think TM is a better choice. I think that the lynching of Psychonaut is just... I dunno, I'll find the right phrasing for it eventually.

Well this comes down to gameplay too, I don't have a record of bandwagonning as a townie (though this game could easily be an exception yadda yadda). What are the other 3 people up to this 'nonsense'? The only nonsense I see is voting for someone because that seems like the cool thing to do, also if bandwagonning makes you such a target then any townie doing it is scummy, so it works both ways.

With the whole Ibn-subotan connection Sasaki uncovered I may change my vote, but if you think I'm a better choice (and you have for a while now) then I can't change your mind. :shrug:

Thermal

04-04-2010, 19:57

That suggests that you openly suspect Sasaki then, correct?

Personally I think he's been suspect the entire game, but that doesn't necessarily make him scum, it's simply an inherent aspect of his playing style... but why hasn't he been lynched by now? Why has the town chosen to lynch others for what has been, in all honesty, absolutely awful reasoning and left someone like Sasaki alive? Or Pizza, for that matter?

1: There controversial, mafia wouldn't kill them, I think people just assume these guys can't keep getting the power roles :laugh4:

2: Other than my dream Sasaki hasn't done anything to scummy from what I can remember

3: ATPG kind of has, but still, not my choice, I've voted for each of them once myself.

seireikhaan

04-04-2010, 20:06

Sasaki Kojiro

04-04-2010, 20:14

And remember that people who were lynched could be mafiosi. You pretty much started the wagon on thermal.

Subo is one of my top suspects now I think.

seireikhaan

04-04-2010, 20:14

Well this comes down to gameplay too, I don't have a record of bandwagonning as a townie (though this game could easily be an exception yadda yadda). What are the other 3 people up to this 'nonsense'? The only nonsense I see is voting for someone because that seems like the cool thing to do, also if bandwagonning makes you such a target then any townie doing it is scummy, so it works both ways.

With the whole Ibn-subotan connection Sasaki uncovered I may change my vote, but if you think I'm a better choice (and you have for a while now) then I can't change your mind. :shrug:
You've certainly played enough to know that excess bandwagons get you lynched sooner or later, so the common sense thing to do is mostly avoid them. The others I noted are suspicious as well, but 4 way lynches aren't really allowed, so I went over the thread and tried to figure which of you was most suspicious. I think its you.

And actually, the original bandwagon I made against you was entirely random- this accusation is not.

Sasaki Kojiro

04-04-2010, 20:20

unvote, vote: Subo

This is the best lynch for today I think. I haven't reread fully but:

1) He often says things that have no relation to his vote.
2) He seems to either bandwagon or avoid the wagons
3) I accused him early on and we had an argument about what strategy was best for town, a subject on which he had many clear and concise opinions. But this is not reflected in his play, which is not pro town
4) His tone in a lot of posts reminds me of how he sounded when I was questioning him about reenk in shadow fort.

If I have time, I'll reread and pull up some posts for examples.

Sasaki Kojiro

04-04-2010, 20:45

Here's some examples subo talking about pro town play and strategy:

I agree. Voting data is useful in games where we can get confirmations about the lynchee's guilt, but in a game such as this where the mafia have way more information than we do, the mafia are able to hide in the voting records with ease.

Hm, looking back on it, it's not great English. My bad. :embarassed:

What I'm saying is, you're gathering all the information about who is acting scummy, identifying potential mafiosi, then discarding it and voting for somebody totally random. In addition to myself, you laid the first vote and started bandwagons upon Shlin, Secura and Ibn; and that's just this round. This scattergun approach isn't productive for us at all, as we end up accusing townies who then have to explain why your random vote is stupid, whilst the mafiosi either lurk their way to victory or hide behind wild accusations disguised as "debate".

If you are looking, then it would be helpful if you could state "I do not think X is mafia because of Y", rather than just leaving it hanging. We have no idea whether you still have suspicions about any of the players you have accused, and as there are no pro-town roles, you have to play a game like this in out in the open.

So when you do that, it really says nothing about you being townie. What it does do is convince some people that you are innocent--without good reason. Which makes it very appealing for mafia to try.
So why do you believe Jolt in Shadow Fort then?

Here's some examples of subotan's votes:

Vote:Khaan
Best possible lynch. Judging from all the infomation available to us at this time, Khaan looks like the most likely to be scum.

Well I guess if your death will not be a loss, then there's no point in wasting a lynch on you. Let's find some innocent to lynch instead [/sarc]

Vote:Sigurd

Inky Pinky Ponky, Daddy bought a donkey. Donkey died, daddy cried. Inky Pinky Ponky!

Vote:Sigurd

Vote:Reenk Roink

You're being wayyyy too quiet, given your reputation for backtalking and snarky comments. :stare:

Us noble bodyguards have to stick together :beam:

Unvote: Reenk Roink; Vote PEVERGREEN

Choo choo

So a summary of his play divides his posts into:

1) numerous light comments that aren't about the game "Superb :bow:" in response to write up, "I make good pancakes", "My delicious pancakes are far tastier than your foul rotten stink-cake. ", "No! Who will make TinCow pancakes just the way he likes them now?" talking about scrubs, etc
2) Some in depth talk about what the best way to play is, clear reasoned thinking
3) votes for no reason, huge contrast with his talk about strategy

I also think he fits the profile of someone who would casually frame someone via write up and make the kill choices made (gut feel).

Finally:

Vote:sasaki
Looking at ATPG's analysis, i'm pretty convinced that methos is a mafioso and that he will be lynched this turn. however, I fail to see the case for w&f, and sasaki's continued support for his death looks like a desperate attempt to save a scum buddy. I don't expect sasaki to be lynched, but I want to register something stronger than a fos.

Yesterday he appears to have read through pizza's huge posts, and has analysis for his vote. Why hasn't he been doing this the other days? And why on earth does he follow it up today with this bandwagon vote:

Vote:ThermalMercury
Anything to irritate dear Sasaki after the Shadow Fort fiasco :beam:

When yesterday he went out of his way to vote me "wanting to register something stronger than an fos"??

Askthepizzaguy

04-04-2010, 21:08

Pizza, why on earth did you act like you were going to try and lynch me today, and then come out and vote psychonaut, and then switch to thermal?

Switched to Thermal because Khaan wants him dead. I honestly believed you were mafia yesterday. You could very well be mafia now. But, if my analysis of Methos was inaccurate (As GH's writeup seemed to hint... :embarassed:) then I don't know what to believe. Besides, you've played a great game if you were indeed mafia. The only thing I really thought was scum was your hesitation on Methos (and possibly, giving me a pass all game. Unusual for you, Sasaki.)

Psychonaut on the other hand, was exhibiting clear signs of self-consciousness in his posts. He seems nervous as anything. And Thermal, I agree, is probably scum. So with Khaan accusing him, I'm all for it. I believe Khaan is innocent, and his analysis meshes with mine.

There's also the fact that if I telegraph my moves to the mafia, it makes it easier for them to determine if I'll be an asset to them or not in the upcoming rounds.

Askthepizzaguy

04-04-2010, 21:14

Seems like a solid enough case to me.

unvote, vote: Subotan

Thermal

04-04-2010, 21:40

Other than the Ibn saving vote (which had no logical reasoning behind it)

His vote for me to annoy you is fairly symbolic too, he votes for me over you because he knows I already have votes and could be killed fairly easily, whereas Sasaki has no votes, if Subotan is mafia he hardly wants to drag end game out with random votes does he?

Also him agreeing with relying on voting data suggests hes trying his hardest to vote away from a mafia like pattern, which makes sense all in all.

Besides, I'm not feeling much on psychonaut anymore, yes hes nervous hence the first vote, but the info dug up makes him lower on the priority list for me. :smiley:

vote: subotan

------

@ATPG

Yaseikhaan admits going onto bandwagons gets you lynched, if you read his last response to me my reasoning is justified and he pretty much understands it, I think its more or less turned into a grudge or maybe intuition, rather than solid evidence but still (not that I'm saying intuition is a bad thing, I just don't think its the best way forward). The only thing that has held up is that he says my posts are more suspicious than others, well unfortunately I'm going to have to pull off another suspicious comment, I always get accused of that! :juggle2:

Should we get the privilege of subotan being revealed as guilty, do you still suspect me? Either of you?

P.S. Notice I am now bandwagonning, I do hope Yaseikhaan is happy.

Side note: Yaseikhaan, first vote against me wasn't random, you said something to the effect of 'I was being to courteous' :shrug:

seireikhaan

04-04-2010, 21:43

Your certainly not incorrect about Subotan, Sasaki. Like.... oh, about 7 or 8 of the rest of the players, he's a decent enough choice for a lynch. Hope you're right...

edit: the "too courteous" was pretty much something I made up.

seireikhaan

04-04-2010, 21:44

Awfully paranoid, Thermal.

Subotan

04-04-2010, 21:47

First, I would like to inform everyone that I am using an iPhone to make these posts, so my ability to reply is limited. This is also responsible for some of my more inane comments, especially over the past few days, as I've been at my grandmother's house, and she lacks Internet access, so I've had to resort to short posts on the iPhone.

Subotan seems to have avidly avoided bandwagons from the few days I've reread.
That will be for two reasons. Either I think the bandwagon is stupid, or I feel that I can express my disapproval with certain posters with something a bit more severe than an FOS when my vote will have no impact on the name of the lynchee.

1) He often says things that have no relation to his vote.
2) He seems to either bandwagon or avoid the wagons
3) I accused him early on and we had an argument about what strategy was best for town, a subject on which he had many clear and concise opinions. But this is not reflected in his play, which is not pro town
4) His tone in a lot of posts reminds me of how he sounded when I was questioning him about reenk in shadow fort.

If I have time, I'll reread and pull up some posts for examples.
1. This is a crime? Loads of other townies do this.
2. Aren't all votes one or the other?
3. There's no such thing as pro-town play in a game where there are no reveals. If I speak as an impartial third party, for all I know your seemingly pro-town analysis could be a dirty trickby mafioso. However, when I have something to say that's constructive, I'll say it. Occasional good analysis is better than constant bad analysis
4. That's how I play mafia. I was like that in PSM, all the SVS games etc.

1) numerous light comments that aren't about the game "Superb :bow:" in response to write up, "I make good pancakes", "My delicious pancakes are far tastier than your foul rotten stink-cake. ", "No! Who will make TinCow pancakes just the way he likes them now?" talking about scrubs, etc
2) Some in depth talk about what the best way to play is, clear reasoned thinking
3) votes for no reason, huge contrast with his talk about strategy

I also think he fits the profile of someone who would casually frame someone via write up and make the kill choices made (gut feel).

Finally:

Yesterday he appears to have read through pizza's huge posts, and has analysis for his vote. Why hasn't he been doing this the other days? And why on earth does he follow it up today with this bandwagon vote:

When yesterday he went out of his way to vote me "wanting to register something stronger than an fos"??
The above points you made would apply to most of us here.

And you know what I think about your gut :beam:

And as I said above, my ability to post my analysis has been limited as of late(although I am obviously conducting my own privately). I shall be home and back at my desktop by Monday evening though.

Thermal

04-04-2010, 22:04

Awfully paranoid, Thermal.

:laugh4:

Had I of not made way for saying certain things you'd all be going I'm super scummy, I can't win...

Subotan

04-04-2010, 22:09

Other than the Ibn saving vote (which had no logical reasoning behind it)

His vote for me to annoy you is fairly symbolic too, he votes for me over you because he knows I already have votes and could be killed fairly easily, whereas Sasaki has no votes, if Subotan is mafia he hardly wants to drag end game out with random votes does he?

Also him agreeing with relying on voting data suggests hes trying his hardest to vote away from a mafia like pattern, which makes sense all in all.
:I voted for Sigurd as I still though that he was suspicious from the previous round. The fact that I saved Ibn As well as Sasaki I might add is due to unlucky timing more than anything else.

So I'm guilty because I bandwagon And because I don't bandwagon? :rolleyes:
I voted for you because I think you have been more consistently suspicious and therefore more likely to be scum than either Psycho or woad. Simples.

And if you had actually read what I'd said, you would find that I was in fact arguing for the complete opposite, that voting analysis cannot be relied upon in a game where there are no reveals. Come to think of it, in addition to trying to frame me like that, you were actually the one who brought up the analysis in the first place! How can you claim that my support of voting analysis (which is wrong) is scummy when you are the original analyser!?

Kagemusha

04-04-2010, 22:17

In matter of fact i think Subotan is making a case here. Also the killing Method of mafia seems awfully consistent and systematical. There isnt anything irregular about it. People die the second it comes propable that they are innocent. Me thinks that the random Org has finally hit Sasaki. Unvote and vote: Sasaki Kojiro.

Askthepizzaguy

04-04-2010, 22:28

Subotan

04-04-2010, 22:47

It's my dad's iPhone so I haven't had a huge amount of time to check up on it. Besides, although staying in a big dusty house can get boring, it's still frustrating tintype on this bloody thing.

Thermal

04-04-2010, 23:02

I voted for Sigurd as I still though that he was suspicious from the previous round. The fact that I saved Ibn As well as Sasaki I might add is due to unlucky timing more than anything else.

So I'm guilty because I bandwagon And because I don't bandwagon? :rolleyes:
I voted for you because I think you have been more consistently suspicious and therefore more likely to be scum than either Psycho or woad. Simples.

And if you had actually read what I'd said, you would find that I was in fact arguing for the complete opposite, that voting analysis cannot be relied upon in a game where there are no reveals. Come to think of it, in addition to trying to frame me like that, you were actually the one who brought up the analysis in the first place! How can you claim that my support of voting analysis (which is wrong) is scummy when you are the original analyser!?

Your vote for sigurd was backed up with inky pinky ponky, and your vote for me backed up with 'to get at sasaki' its amazing how your reasoning for votes change when you want them to.

It could be unlucky timing, then again, it could not... :inquisitive:

I never said you were guilty for not bandwagonning/bandwagonning, I get the same questions hurled at me from yaseikhaan. But your analysis to no analysis is suspicious, if you really do find me so suspicious you would have put a reason like you did last round, instead you vote with no almost no logical explanation and wonder why it gets pointed out.

Notice that the two you mention have half or less posts than me, you see my posts more often so I bound to say something a tad surprising or scummy here and there, those that only say select words have less to worry about in that regard.

Sorry for not reading the whole 1000+ post thread :brood: If you were arguing against it then why do you say that ATPG is entirely right and voting data is so useful? All your doing here is contradicting yourself, unless of course that quote is forged, it was posted by Sasaki, so I go from what I see. It's not framing, its reading your posts (which you point out I haven't done enough of :rolleyes: ) the amount of time your spending on this game is surprising for some townie, will plausably excuses like typing on the iphone to hopefully conceal any potential questioning of your posts. I'm not questioning that your on an Iphone, but it still gives you something to blame, ATPG's point of this game meaning a lot to you ties in with that too.

If I did bring up the relying on voting pattern first (I can't remember if I did) then its because at the time it seemed like a good idea, still kind of does, I pointed it out as a case against you specifically because your votes seem erratic and low key. Talking about the voting pattern being a good idea is no crime, its whether your own voting pattern resembles a criminal offense or not.

:laugh4:

I'll probably find lots of loopholes in that but still :grin:

Sasaki Kojiro

04-04-2010, 23:11

Subo, the whole point is that you have lots of energy (iphone or no) to spend defending yourself and talking at length about what makes a good vote. But your actual votes are totally vacuous, leaving nothing that can be argued with because you are "just joking around". That's very out of sync with your strategy/gameplay analysis posts which only appear when you are accused.

naut

04-05-2010, 01:37

Awfully paranoid, Thermal.
Awfully schizophrenic too. One moment I'm the most dangerous thing since cyanide capsules and the next, just a blasé "Oh not really any more".

naut

04-05-2010, 01:43

Thermal

04-05-2010, 01:52

Awfully schizophrenic too. One moment I'm the most dangerous thing since cyanide capsules and the next, just a blasé "Oh not really any more".

Yeah well If I'm gonna vote for someone I'd rather get a following rather than just I'm voting for you because...yeah...besides I still think your acting to naive to me one of the more sure townie types.

And I believe split personalities are always interesting :smiley:

ME MAD! ME ANGRY! RAWR! :angry:

P.S. you did a fine job of changing your mind to :wink:

naut

04-05-2010, 02:07

P.S. you did a fine job of changing your mind to :wink:
I haven't change my mind, I've changed priority.

Sasaki Kojiro

04-05-2010, 02:23

psychonaut: 1 (pizza)

Thermal Mercury: 1 (pizza (previously:psycho))

Pizza: 1 (reenk)

woad: 1 (sasaki)

psycho: 1(thermal)

sasaki: 1(ibn)

psycho: 2(woad)

psycho: 3(kage)

thermal: 2(subo)

ibn: 1(woad (previously:psycho))

subo: 1 (sasaki (previously:woad)

subo: 2(pizza (previously:thermal))

subo: 2*(thermal NO UNVOTE (previously aka still: psycho)

sasaki: 2(kage (previously:psycho)

subo: 3*(psycho)

Subotan: 3 (Sasaki, pizza, thermal, psycho)
Sasaki: 2 (ibn, kage)
Thermal: 1 (Subo)
Ibn: 1 (Woad)
Pizza: 1 (Reenk)
Pyscho: 1 (thermal)

thermal didn't unvote, don't remember if that counts

Renata

04-05-2010, 02:59

vote: Ibn

though this is as much procedural as it is indicative of earlier suspicious, to get one more suspect on the button. Actual thought will have to wait for tomorrow. (Happy Easter, to anyone who's happy about it. :) )

TinCow

04-05-2010, 03:22

I support the lynching of Subotan.

Chaotix

04-05-2010, 03:28

Well, if TinCow is doing it...

I support the lynch of ATPG, actually. Far, far too much vote switching for someone who was convinced Sasaki was mafia last round.

Askthepizzaguy

04-05-2010, 04:16

I also support my lynch. It's the only thing which will satisfy those people who are absolutely convinced I must be mafia.

GeneralHankerchief

04-05-2010, 04:26

So, as it turns out, it looks like I'm going to have to pull an all-nighter tonight (oh, the fun of college). Therefore, voting will probably end around noon Eastern, though I don't know for sure.

woad&fangs

04-05-2010, 04:38

ATPG appears to be playing just like he normally does. I-K and Subotan both look like solid cases with TM being another possibility. I'm sticking with IK though, unless subotan digs himself into a bigger hole.

Askthepizzaguy

04-05-2010, 04:38

I don't think it is Ibn-Khaldun or there wouldn't have been a tie between him and Sigurd that one round. His partner would have saved him.

(So says me, his omg obvious scum partner) :tongue2:

Thermal

04-05-2010, 05:22

I haven't change my mind, I've changed priority.

I actually used the word priority when I switched from you to subotan, so the same for me good sir :bow:

Thermal

04-05-2010, 05:22

unvote
vote: subotan

woad&fangs

04-05-2010, 05:34

I don't think it is Ibn-Khaldun or there wouldn't have been a tie between him and Sigurd that one round. His partner would have saved him.

(So says me, his omg obvious scum partner) :tongue2:

Good point. May as well make it a landslide... unvote: Ibn-Khaldun; vote: subotan

Askthepizzaguy

04-05-2010, 06:33

Well that makes me less nervous.

:sweatdrop:

Now I feel like I am almost certainly wrong.

Subotan

04-05-2010, 09:31

So rather than a lynch a semi-lurker who has been acting suspiciously all game and only posting fluff analysis, you would rather lynch a townie who has provided analysis when asked of him and been a player of value when able? It's going to be a sad state of affairs if people are going to start being lynched for want of a desktop rather than any serious reason.

Beefy187

04-05-2010, 10:47

My guess
One of Woad or TM is mafia.

If there are two remaining at this point, it is probably Woad + Sasaki

Interesting dark horse is Renata.

naut

04-05-2010, 11:47

TM and Sasaki seems believable Beefy.

Renata

04-05-2010, 14:12

Only three hours left? I need coffee. What exactly is the case on Subotan based on?

TinCow

04-05-2010, 14:36

Only three hours left? I need coffee. What exactly is the case on Subotan based on?

He's putting in a lot of effort to monitor the game, despite real life internet access difficulties. He is also putting a lot of effort into his analysis now that he is a lynch option, while his previous votes have had next to no analysis at all in them. This is typical behavior for a mafioso who was trying to avoid attention earlier and is now desperate to avoid the lynch.

Renata

04-05-2010, 14:52

Wasn't Subotan a lynch target once before? Didn't Sasaki go after him for a while one day?

Subotan

04-05-2010, 15:02

He's putting in a lot of effort to monitor the game, despite real life internet access difficulties. He is also putting a lot of effort into his analysis now that he is a lynch option, while his previous votes have had next to no analysis at all in them. This is typical behavior for a mafioso who was trying to avoid attention earlier and is now desperate to avoid the lynch.
that's typical behaviour from anyone who doesn't want to die and have another lynch for the town wasted. I've already explained why Thermal Mercury has been far more damaging to the town than I have, and I will not be able to post any more so-called indepth analysis as I am flying back home now.

TinCow

04-05-2010, 15:08

that's typical behaviour from anyone who doesn't want to die and have another lynch for the town wasted. I've already explained why Thermal Mercury has been far more damaging to the town than I have, and I will not be able to post any more so-called indepth analysis as I am flying back home now.

If you were that concerned with helping the town, you would've put in more effort to find real suspects earlier in the game. While such a change in behavior is possible for a townie, it remains a strong mafia-tell. Given that the Mafia # series of games forces us to rely 100% on in-thread behavior, those who exhibit mafia tells are the best possible lynch candidates.

Sasaki Kojiro

04-05-2010, 15:11

It's funny, I thought he voted Thermal "to irritate sasaki", but now it turns out it's because he's been very damaging to the town, semi lurking, acting suspicious and posting fluff analysis.

Renata

04-05-2010, 15:14

Sasaki, did you or didn't you spend time at some point getting some votes on Subotan?

Renata

04-05-2010, 15:18

Also, apparently the mafia don't fully share your opinion of semi-lurkers, since they've killed at least a couple of them, including last night.

Sasaki Kojiro

04-05-2010, 15:20

Sasaki, did you or didn't you spend time at some point getting some votes on Subotan?

One round I started a wagon on shlin, then switched to secura, then switched to subotan. That was the source of a few of those analysis posts I quoted earlier.

Renata

04-05-2010, 15:39

How did Subotan respond that time?

Sasaki Kojiro

04-05-2010, 15:42

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126877-Mafia-IX-Triumph-of-the-Mafia&p=2458323&viewfull=1#post2458323

Renata

04-05-2010, 15:52

That's the day that ended up like this:

shlin28: 3 (ATPG, Blackadder, shlin)
Methos: 2 (Psychonaut, Ibn)
Thermal Mercury: 2 (woad, Joooray)
Subotan: 2 (Sasaki, TinCow)
ATPG: 1 (Thermal)
TinCow: 1 (Secura)
Ibn-Khaldun: 1 (Renata)
Sasaki Kojiro: 1 (Methos)
Reenk Roink: 1 (Subotan)
Renata: 1 (Beskar)*

Abstained: 1 (Beefy)
Didn't vote: 4 (Drizzt, Kage, pever, Reenk)

Subotan was the last effort at a bandwagon. He wound up with two votes to shlin's 3, and one of those was a self-vote. Four non-voters. One of shlin's voters (ATPG) highly likely to change his vote based on previous behavior.

Sure, Subotan is mafia.

It's probably too late, but I don't believe this bandwagon is on solid ground. It feels ad hoc, cooked up on flimsy premises to distract from what might have been the default lynch otherwise.

unvote, vote: Sasaki Kojiro

Sasaki Kojiro

04-05-2010, 15:57

You clearly didn't read it. Did you see my initial comments about the voting result from that day? I brought up the same point you brought up.

I suppose I'll probably have to quote it for you :mellow:

Day 5
shlin28: 3 (ATPG, Blackadder, shlin)
Methos: 2 (Psychonaut, Ibn)
Thermal Mercury: 2 (woad, Joooray)
Subotan: 2 (Sasaki, TinCow)

This looks like another interesting day to me and worth a reread. It seems like people were ok with thermal and subotan being at the mercy of shlin's self vote.

The wagon on shlin was pretty strong for a while though and looked like it would continue. So I don't think what I said about those guys with 2 votes looking good holds up.

And you know, saying my case on subo is "ad hoc" to save thermal is kind of silly, since the same excuse you are applying to subo applies to him (2 votes).

Renata

04-05-2010, 16:03

Where please. I missed the better part of three days over the weekend.

Sasaki Kojiro

04-05-2010, 16:03

:mellow:

Renata

04-05-2010, 16:04

Not to save Thermal, to offer more insurance between yourself and the lynch.

Freakin' edits:

Your rationalization about the shlin wagon's presumed strength is extremely weak tea. The two votes on Subotan came a good long while before the end of the day, and after shlin's self-vote, but nothing moved after that.

Renata

04-05-2010, 16:09

Which is just to say: it completely undermines your point about Subotan's suspicious level of attention to the game as prompted by this current bandwagon. At that previous point in the game, he didn't even bother to make himself safe, nor did anyone do it for him.

It's a lousy bandwagon, Sasaki.

Sasaki Kojiro

04-05-2010, 16:12

GeneralHankerchief

04-05-2010, 17:00

Voting closed.

Please bear with me as I am currently operating on two hours of sleep. :freak:

GeneralHankerchief

04-05-2010, 18:01

Sunset.

It had been a long and trying day for Subotan, not to mention the rest of the week-plus. He had been dodging mafia assaults and villager attempts to get himself lynched, and, it seemed like he was finally going to settle in and buckle down; be a vital contributor to the town's final push to save themselves. Of course, that was right when the hammer fell.

The town's wisest scholars and most trusted voices had named him as the mafioso, building the best case they could against him. The votes, in turn, followed, and Subotan was left gibbering, doing his best not to simply repeat Methos's argument of the day before. He realized that this wouldn't do anything to dissuade the town from lynching him, though, and as the day wore on instead tried a different tactic.

Poring through the Frontroom Library, Subotan returned at sunset carrying a mountain of books. Several of them looked quite ancient, dating all the way back to 2006. This method was unorthodox for sure, but he figured it was his best shot of staying alive and avoiding whatever sick and twisted and diabolical lynch mechanism the Chief of Police had dreamed up for him.

"Okay, Subotan," Lemur said, "The jig is up. It's time."

"No," said Subotan, "Your jig is up, Chief, or should I say, Mister Former Mafioso!" Everybody gasped in shock. "Is it true?" someone cried out.

"Oh, it's true," replied Subotan, taking out one of the thinner, older-looking tones. "It's all right here in the Frontroom Chronicles, if you know where to look for it. Looks like Lemur tried to disguise his past by putting it in the absolute last place anybody would look for it - a library - but he didn't hide it well enough! Behold, ladies and gentlemen of the Frontroom, the truth shall set you free! Evidence that, back in 2006, Lemur was an integral part of a very similar operation (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?66579-Mafia-II-The-sequel-to-the-best-selling-forum-game-%28finished%29) to what's going on now! He was allegedly lynched, but obviously he survived and he's been worming his way to the inside ever since! Well, my fine-feathered friend, now you're exposed! What do you have to say for yourself?"

Lemur sighed. "I was wondering when this would come up. Subotan, you idiot, you haven't read the fully story. Yes, I was part of a mafia operation in 2006. But that was just a one-time thing! I got out as soon as I was lynched and I later served the Frontroom with distinction in later Mafia assaults!"

"I don't remember this at all," said one particularly wizened villager.

"Pipe down back there," Lemur said. "It's all moot anyway. The main point is, right now, I'm the Chief of Police! And, as a symbol of my office... I have a gun!" He suddenly whipped out a bazooka and fired the projectile high into the twilight sky, causing everyone to scream and start running in chaos. Within seconds, the Frontroom Square was entirely empty, save for two people: Subotan and Lemur.

Reloading his bazooka, Lemur stared icily at Subotan, who suddenly realized how exposed he actually was. "There will be no dissent in the Lemur regime," he said, aiming and firing the bazooka once more.

Day 8 tally:
Subotan: 5 (Sasaki, ATPG, Psychonaut, Thermal, woad) :skull:
Sasaki Kojiro: 3 (Ibn, Kage, Renata)
Thermal Mercury: 1 (Subotan)
Askthepizzaguy: 1 (Reenk)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Still alive: (9)
Sasaki Kojiro
Askthepizzaguy
Kagemusha
Renata
Thermal Mercury
Ibn-Khaldun
woad&fangs
Psychonaut
Reenk Roink

Wrath of God:
Cultured Drizzt fan

Killed:
Crazed Rabbit
Andres
atheotes
Double A
Centurion1
Csargo
Winston Hughes
johnhughthom
spL1tp3r50naL1ty
White_eyes:D
Secura
Beskar
Joooray
pevergreen
Beefy187
Captain Blackadder

Executed:
Diamondeye
Chaotix
Yaseikhaan
Sigurd
shlin28
TinCow
Methos
Subotan

Orders are due at 13:00 US Eastern tomorrow.

Renata

04-05-2010, 18:19

It was like 2 and a half hours, and subo was online.

His partner could have been lynched, his partner could have been psychonaut (asleep in australia) etc. Read the day over yourself, unless you do a tally manually it looks like shlin is the definite lynch. The tally posted by someone has him at 5 votes.

Renata: engaging in brinksmanship when the vote is close is a mafia tactic. They want you to think what you're thinking now, and not "he voted to save himself!". For examlpe, in the godfather three, beefy either self voted or voted his partner (can't remember which) putting him at 4 votes to the next wagons 5. Risky (it may have even backfired, I forget) but it is something mafia do.

You're trying too hard. This isn't Godfather 3, which presumably had death reveals and/ or other clues available for the town; it's Mafia IX, which has nothing of the sort. Let me get the timing exactly clear, since I have a couple of minutes with no distractions.
3/28 1:12 by my clock. 3 votes on Shlin including the self-vote (or are you really trying to convince me that the mafia wouldn't double-check?) You vote Subotan (first vote).
3/28 10:33. TinCow follows. Subotan's now avoiding being in a four-way tie by the slim thread of one self-vote.
3/28 11:57 and 12:30 and 12:49. Subotan posts, not seeming freaked out, not arguing hard, not trying to change the situation, quite cool really. His vote stays on Reenk (first vote); he doesn't switch to Shlin (sitting at three votes including the self-vote), or to TM or Ibn (both at 2). I will buy, completely, that he didn't realize the danger he was in. What I don't buy is that a mafia in his position would not. Anyone at all could have forced him into a tie with just one vote change. Anyone pointing out Shlin's self-vote and the actual vote totals could easily have gotten two more votes for one of the alternate bandwagons. Shlin or CB or ATPG could have hung him single-handed, if they'd been so inclined/been around. As dangerous as it would be to add a vote to one of the vote-leaders at that point, it would be all but suicidal to change his vote after someone else had already switched theirs. The bottom line, though, is that if Subotan is mafia here, he's being COLD with the brinksmanship.

Phase ends at 13:00.

Now compare that to today. Part of your rationale for driving the bandwagon on Subotan was that his response was suspicious -- he's not being cold at all. How can you make those two data points mesh? I don't think you can. I don't think he's mafia, and I'm very suspicious that you twisted the data to get the outcome you wanted.

Sasaki Kojiro

04-05-2010, 18:20

You are suggesting that Subotan would appear nervous under pressure. I don't think he would, that's not my impression of him at all. I have the opposite impression.

Askthepizzaguy

04-05-2010, 18:26

Godfather III had no reveals or clues.

Renata

04-05-2010, 18:41

Irrelevent. I'm not making any judgment on his level of nervousness at all. The point is that you are, implicitly, but that it doesn't hold up to inspection when compared to the earlier situation:

This one from Subotan:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126877-Mafia-IX-Triumph-of-the-Mafia&p=2463294&viewfull=1#post2463294

And this response a few posts later from you:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126877-Mafia-IX-Triumph-of-the-Mafia&p=2463381&viewfull=1#post2463381

"lots of energy to defend himself"; "analysis appears only when accused" -- but he WAS accused once previously, in a rather dangerous situation to boot, and this behavior that you find so suggestive did not materialize. That's why I'm calling your accusation ad hoc -- it's like you're making it up as you go along.

So Subotan will defend himself vigorously, sometimes. Other times, not so much. Same applies to all of us. It's not a reliable scum tell, but you're happy enough to go with it at a very late stage of the game (and don't get me started on the people who followed you). Fancy it up with a lot of words, obscure the details, but the facts boil down to:

-- Subotan did NOT always defend himself disproportionately to his actual contribution to this game. He did it this time, but not the first.
-- When he failed to do so, the first time there was a bandwagon against him, it was quite possibly because he didn't perceive himself to be in danger. But this is a mistake much more likely to have been made by a townie. Any halfway competent mafia with votes on him would surely have checked the vote count. He gave no indication whatsoever of having done so.

You actually did go back and check your facts, yet you still stuck with the accusation despite the doubt that the vote situation should have cast on it.

Renata

04-05-2010, 18:43

Godfather III had no reveals or clues.

Thank you, retracted on any implication of "mafia will NEVER do that", but the incentive still works the other way.

Sasaki Kojiro

04-05-2010, 18:52

"lots of energy to defend himself"; "analysis appears only when accused" -- but he WAS accused once previously, in a rather dangerous situation to boot, and this behavior that you find so suggestive did not materialize. That's why I'm calling your accusation ad hoc -- it's like you're making it up as you go along.

Renata, my initial case was that I thought his defense of my previous accusation was out of line with the effort he put into his voting--and it WAS.

Askthepizzaguy

04-05-2010, 18:55

I'd note that the subject of contention, Subotan, is dead.

If Sasaki is suspicious, then you'll be voting him next round, Renata, I'm sure. But there's no need to telegraph to the mafia what we're doing next round.

Sasaki Kojiro

04-05-2010, 18:57

On the contrary...-..-..----.-.-...-.-...--.---.----.-.-.

Askthepizzaguy

04-05-2010, 19:03

That's disgusting. :sick:

Renata

04-05-2010, 19:08

LOL @ ATPG -- you think the mafia could possibly miss it?

Hey mafia, I'm not suspicious of Sasaki anymore. Better get rid of him lest he lead the town to victory!

(Think that'll work?)

Anyway, I'm trying to get *myself* night killed here. You don't do that by letting the other guy get the last word. Whatever shall I do?

Askthepizzaguy

04-05-2010, 19:09

I promise I will not kill you tonight, Renata. Sasaki and I will actually be killing Ibn-Khaldun and Kagemusha because they aren't suspicious.

Renata

04-05-2010, 19:12

No clearly you should kill yourself. The ultimate WIFOM; a real feather in your cap.

Askthepizzaguy

04-05-2010, 19:23

I suppose that has never been done before.

Therefore, I shall do it. Tonight, I Askthepizzaguy, shall kill myself in the name of the ultimate WIFOM.

(please make it seem as though I actually did that, too....)

Subotan

04-05-2010, 21:02

Another day passes, and the mafiosi are still at large. Since when has defending yourself been evidence that you're guilty? Sasaki has been reading way too much into the quantity of what I had written rather than the content. If I still had a vote, I would instantly in the next phase lay it on Thermal Mercury, who has got a far too easy ride for someone who has slipped up and contradicted himself far more times than we should be happy with.

Kagemusha

04-05-2010, 23:43

I think Sasaki should be lynched next day. I am getting very bad vibes out of him looking back the thread.

Thermal

04-06-2010, 02:55

So rather than a lynch a semi-lurker

Semi lurker? :laugh4: Wow you really have been paying attention to this game, I must admit, I have barely said a word, compared to you, I only have 50 more posts than you too, how about that....

who has been acting suspiciously all game and only posting fluff analysis

I wander where you got the word fluff from. :smiley: Well I'm a big fluffy bundle of fun so thats all good.

you would rather lynch a townie who has provided analysis when asked of him and been a player of value when able?

....As well as posted random and contradictory posts (of which you accuse me of doing as well :beam: ) you also don't respond to my last analysis of your claims against me so not always provided analysis when asked, eh?

Also quite offended that your saying I've not at any point been a player of value, basically :sad: .

It's going to be a sad state of affairs if people are going to start being lynched for want of a desktop rather than any serious reason.

Which rounded off your mafia like urges to stay alive....

--------

As you say though, you really have been a player of value where as I, humble me have contributed nothing.

This contribution from you was brilliant and very helpful to town specifically.

'How could

Inky Pinky Ponky, Daddy bought a donkey. Donkey died, daddy cried. Inky Pinky Ponky!

Vote:Sigurd '

You really do given non scummy explanations for your votes too, which are far more concised than my own!

Vote:PEVERGREEN

Oooh, a delayed OMGUS...

Vote:Reenk Roink

I also like how you encourage other players to vote just as productively as you

This scattergun approach isn't productive for us at all, as we end up accusing townies who then have to explain why your random vote is stupid

Before getting a large amount of votes the largest post I saw your type was about 3 lines long (and that was rare) so you certainly are contributing more.

Your General Topics:

Princess Bride hate, Tincow's pancakes, Pevergreen & Reenk

After looking through the entire thread I honestly see almost no on topic posts, so yet again you really were a player of value.

Using voting data is useful and unuseful according to you too. :shrug:

Rest in Peace :balloon2:

Secura

04-06-2010, 05:33

Pevergreen

Oh no you di-int!

That's a lynchable offense in itself... :P

Askthepizzaguy

04-06-2010, 08:01

I've been part of the lynch or the tie vote during every round in the game, except the one against Yaseikhaan. Even after that, and even after extensive WIFOM from myself, and even after your little pizza hints in the writeups, I am still alive. You will kill me tonight, or I will kill you, it is that simple. Do we understand each other?

Andres

04-06-2010, 16:30

Hmmmm, we're nearing the end phase. I hope I can find the time to do some reading so that I can lead the town to its' doom with my usually idiotic and dead wrong analysises to victory by rooting out the two mafiosi still alive and thinking they're set for a total mafia victory.

Start trembling, you cowardly mafiosi who killed me, ME!, your resident INFALLIBLE GOD, on N1.

You are doomed!

I suggest you save yourself the embarassement and send your suicide orders to GH right now.

:brood:

[You may be infallible, but I can still edit your posts. It's good to be king - GH]

GeneralHankerchief

04-06-2010, 19:37

Day breaks in the Frontroom. All is quiet.

A lone cow made her way down the peaceful village's main street. There would be no more singlehanded door-to-door murders that took far too much time and effort. No, this time, the mad cow would have a true feast indeed. She would be going straight to the source: The Chief of Police's office.

For his part, Lemur was having another relatively relaxing day, keeping himself busy by reading Better Homes and Gardens until the inevitable news of the murders came. Therefore, he was surprised to hear a knock at the door, though it was certainly not the sharp, crisp knocks he had come to expect as Chief of Police.

He opened the door to find himself staring face to face with a very hungry mad cow. Bessie, upon spotting her prey, mooed. Lemur, quickly realizing exactly what was going on, attempted to slam the door in Bessie's face, but the cow was too quick, powering her way into the office and sending Lemur scrambling around the room.

The two parties, man and cow, ran around the room in circles for a couple of minutes before Lemur finally displayed signs of intelligence that had allowed humans to evolve and become higher than cows many millennia ago: He jumped on top of his desk, and, in a fluid motion, grabbed his office chair and used it as a shield, much like the lion tamers of old used it as separation.

"Yah! Back, you devil!" Lemur shouted, brandishing the chair at the cow. Bessie mooed her disappointment, unsuccessfully trying the topple the desk over a few times before she tried a different strategy. Standing up on her hind hooves (defying the laws of physics in doing so, but Lemur was in no mood to think about the implications of this act at the moment), Bessie fired a concentrated blast of milk from her udder straight at the Chief of Police's face.

The blast took Lemur completely by surprise and blew him back, sending him tumbling off the desk. Bessie ran around the desk, closing in for the kill, but Lemur was able to crawl away, getting up on his feet and running out of the door in time. The office had been completely trashed, but it was a death trap waiting to happen and Lemur had gotten out of there alive.

If there was present in the town to be at Frontroom Square that day, they would have witnessed their Chief of Police bursting out of the door at a full sprint, followed a couple of seconds later by a cow galloping at high speed and steadily gaining ground on Lemur. Yes, Lemur had gotten out of the office, but now he had a *lot* of open ground to cover and Bessie was closing fast.

"This can't end here this can't end here this can't end here" he kept repeating to himself, focusing every possible iota of his energy into getting to the one place that might just save him: The execution platform. As his legs slowly started turning to stone, Lemur kept sprinting, hearing Bessie's bell clanging madly behind him, her incessant hoofbeats, her breathing in and out. With maybe a half a stride to spare, Lemur finally made it, diving under a hole in the platform.

Generally protected by the platform now, Lemur was allowed to pause and catch his breath. However, the cow would not give up so easily. She started snapping at Lemur's legs, the platform, anything she could get her mouth on. Lemur could feel the cow's hot, moist breath pass over his face as she continued her tireless efforts.

Eventually, Bessie backed up a couple of steps and executed a full-on charge, obliterating the execution platform and leaving Lemur horribly exposed. Bessie mooed in triumph as she prepared to feast on her victory.

Lemur, however, wasn't done yet. He simply rolled out of the way a couple of times. And as soon as the cow, in pursuit, occupied the same piece of land he had been hiding on before he had to move, Lemur pressed a secret button on his standard-issue utility belt.

The rumbling sound took place in a split second, just enough time for Bessie to look down at where she was standing in confusion. Then, the ground opened and a small rocket exploded upwards, carrying Bessie - now holding on for dear life - as it climbed higher and higher into the sky and out of view.

Lemur, now standing up to watch it all, brushed himself off and shook his head, trying to contemplate it all. Just as he turned away to head back into his office, he heard an odd tinkling sound from behind him. Turning around, he saw that a small piece of metal had impacted the ground, a piece that hadn't been there before. He bent down to pick up and saw that there were some words that had been engraved in the metal.

They read:

"Bessie"

"If found please return to Subotan and Chaotix"

"REWARD"

Lemur exhaled, the moment hitting him. Finally, after eight hellish days, it was over. Somehow, the town had managed to save itself. It was over. They were saved. Lemur cracked a smile, and then began to laugh. Hysterically. Almost immediately in retrospect, the situation was a lot more hilarious than it had been when all of their lives were at stake.

He would go back to the office and clean up. He would take the time to personally call the nine survivors of the attack and inform them that they had nothing else to fear. But first, the Frontroom Chief of Police, the Keeper of the Kingdom of Peace and Love, would enjoy a drink. After all, he had earned it.

Maybe this job wouldn't be so bad, after all.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Here is the final status list. Congratulations to those who survived.

Survived: (9)
Sasaki Kojiro
Askthepizzaguy
Kagemusha
Renata
Thermal Mercury
Ibn-Khaldun
woad&fangs
Psychonaut
Reenk Roink

Wrath of God:
Cultured Drizzt fan

Killed:
Crazed Rabbit
Andres
atheotes
Double A
Centurion1
Csargo
Winston Hughes
johnhughthom
spL1tp3r50naL1ty
White_eyes:D
Secura
Beskar
Joooray
pevergreen
Beefy187
Captain Blackadder

Executed:
Diamondeye
Chaotix
Yaseikhaan
Sigurd
shlin28
TinCow
Methos
Subotan

Result:

TOWNSPEOPLE VICTORY! :medievalcheers:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And with that, ladies and gentlemen, Mafia IX is over. A big "thanks for playing!" to everybody who joined, especially our two gallant mafiosi: Chaotix and Subotan! I've already spoken to them in private but I'll say it again here: Winning this game as a mafioso is hard and they are to be commended for their noble efforts.

However, of course, it was not enough, so with that I offer a big congratulations and applause to the victorious townies! :cheerleader:

Commentary and my usual essay will be up soon; I'm aiming for the weekend.

TinCow

04-06-2010, 19:45

:2thumbsup:

Thanks for the great game, GH.

Kagemusha

04-06-2010, 19:52

Thanks GH!:bow: Sasaki your skills at mafia detecting are becoming dangerously good.:eeeek:

TinCow

04-06-2010, 19:56

Thanks GH!:bow: Sasaki your skills at mafia detecting are becoming dangerously good.:eeeek:

Indeed, though I give most of the credit to Renata for nabbing Chaotix. :bow:

Renata

04-06-2010, 20:08

Woot we won! No thanks to me.

I will just slink off extremely embarrassed now. :)

Subotan

04-06-2010, 20:17

And I would have gotten away with it, if it hadn't been for those meddling townies.

Seriously though, super game. :2thumbsup:

Renata

04-06-2010, 20:19

Oh geez I did get Chaotix. Yippee!!! High fives all around!

Askthepizzaguy

04-06-2010, 20:39

That's awesome. I also correctly voted both of them. Pretty sweet.

Sorry, Methos and Sasaki! had to give it a shot. I'm just glad I abandoned that whole premise and listened to Sasaki.

Chaotix

04-06-2010, 21:17

seireikhaan

04-06-2010, 21:32

Good game, all!

We thought for a moment that Subotan might get a free ride all the way to the end, until you managed to realize that he existed last round. :laugh4:

EDIT: Also, once GH has his own commentary up, I'll post all of the PM-strategizing that Subotan and I did thoughout the course of the game.
Oh goodie, I was hoping you were mafia. Most excellent. :2thumbsup:

Kudos to Sasaki for correctly ID'ing Subotan.

Thanks for the great game as usual, GH.

White_eyes:D

04-06-2010, 21:42

Sasaki strikes again....Good game everyone(I knew Reenk was not guilty of that write-up, it just didn't have his originality to it:shrug:)

Peg my playstyle perfectly though:bounce:

Renata

04-06-2010, 21:42

GH's write-up on your lynch made the whole GAME, as far as I'm concerned, 'Khaan. An instant classic. :)

Thanks, GH.

Sasaki Kojiro

04-06-2010, 21:47

Secura

04-06-2010, 21:51

Good job guys. :3

Sasaki Kojiro

04-06-2010, 21:53

Also, I think it's hilarious that khaan's random wagon strategy hit mafia on day 2. And then Chaotix got himself lynched by overreacting to the threat.

Renata

04-06-2010, 21:57

And then Subotan did NOT vote Methos to tie it up at the end -- and he could have; he was DNV that day and Chaotix only got lynched by one vote. What a crazy day! And the vast majority of us had no clue it was happening.

GeneralHankerchief

04-06-2010, 21:59

EDIT: Also, once GH has his own commentary up, I'll post all of the PM-strategizing that Subotan and I did thoughout the course of the game.

By all means, post away. Don't wait for me. :yes:

Askthepizzaguy

04-06-2010, 22:05

Also, I think it's hilarious that khaan's random wagon strategy hit mafia on day 2. And then Chaotix got himself lynched by overreacting to the threat.

This is why I obey master Khaan, and was sorely disappointed in all of you who killed him! :brood:

j/k

Subotan

04-06-2010, 22:11

Awesome!

I think Subo would have got off scott free if it weren't for our pm exchange in the Shadow Fort. He acted like he had no idea who reenk was and didn't know who the noble was and had me running in circles for a day or so before I put the loose ends together.

So his very genuine/careless tone and sincere sounding defenses left me unmoved.
Gah, foiled by metagaming :laugh4: My approach to you and the whole town in Shadow Fort was exactly how you described it, "running rings around you" in a bid to buy both myself and Reenk time.

You still have loose ends to tie up regarding what we did in that game btw.

So his very genuine/careless tone and sincere sounding defenses left me unmoved.
I panicked when I came online on my dad's iPhone to find twenty posts of evidence highlighting my crimes. The brinkmanship which I resorted to earlier would have failed me in that situation, and I overreacted :sweatdrop:

Woot we won! No thanks to me.

I will just slink off extremely embarrassed now. :)
Well you called me "COLD", which is probably the greatest compliment I've ever seen in a mafia game, so my complete duping of you will be forgiven

(I knew Reenk was not guilty of that write-up, it just didn't have his originality to it)

I was late with those orders, and I had to think of a weapon in a few seconds. I'd just seen a documentary on snapping turtles, so :shrug:

And then Subotan did NOT vote Methos to tie it up at the end -- and he could have; he was DNV that day and Chaotix only got lynched by one vote. What a crazy day! And the vast majority of us had no clue it was happening.

I also could have voted for Sasaki to keep myself alive on the last day. But I doubt that would have affected the outcome of the lynch. However, I am kicking myself over the failure to save Chaotix :wall:

White_eyes:D

04-06-2010, 22:14

I was late with those orders, and I had to think of a weapon in a few seconds. I'd just seen a documentary on snapping turtles, so :shrug: Yeah, had it not been for those "snapping turtles" I would have hounded Reenk even after I died:laugh4:

Thermal

04-06-2010, 22:21

Well done Sasaki! =)

Brilliant game and brilliant write ups, the idea of a cow and lemur fighting was fairly amusing in itself.

Were the write ups the genius from subotan & choatix themselves then or was our dear host making them? :smiley:

Subotan

04-06-2010, 22:24

We were thinking of the weapons, whilst GH incorporated them into his own write-ups.

The Final Battle was all his though :shame:

Askthepizzaguy

04-06-2010, 22:41

One person I was not suspicious of all game was Reenk Roink. It was quite clear to me those write-ups were not his doing, and his voting pattern indicated usual Reenkness.

Thermal

04-06-2010, 22:56

One person I was not suspicious of all game was Reenk Roink. It was quite clear to me those write-ups were not his doing, and his voting pattern indicated usual Reenkness.

And me, no one was suspicious of me

:creep:

Askthepizzaguy

04-06-2010, 22:58

The only really suspect thing you ever did was latch onto that Pizza WIFOM in the writeups.

:whip:

Bad Mercury! Bad! No biscuit.

Thermal

04-06-2010, 23:01

The only really suspect thing you ever did was latch onto that Pizza WIFOM in the writeups.

:whip:

Bad Mercury! Bad! No biscuit.

But they told me you were guilty!

Bad write ups! Bad!

I want a biscuit :sad:

Ibn-Khaldun

04-06-2010, 23:02

Nice game. Excellent write ups!
My first mafia game where I wasn't killed or lynched!! :2thumbsup:

And... I told you so.. That I wasn't mafia!! :tongue:

GeneralHankerchief

04-06-2010, 23:25

Beefy187

04-06-2010, 23:27

Heh I got it completely wrong :embarassed:
Thanks for the good challenge Subo and Chaotix :2thumbsup:
And big thanks to GH for hosting this :bow:

Another big thanks to towns brains. We wouldn't have won without you lads :yes:

Thermal

04-06-2010, 23:31

Bessie provided a nice outlet for my frustration though. I deliberately left her fate ambiguous at the end just in case someone decides to bring her back one day.

Perhaps bessie is closer than we think

looks at beefy*

Chaotix

04-07-2010, 00:04

Yeah, the weapons got a bit ridiculous at the end. I think I gave subtle hints to my mafia colleagues saying as much when I had the "door-to-door" mafioso (always Subotan's personality, btw) ask out loud how you manage to kill someone with a cheese grater and the a round later when he told his target that he had come to beat them to death with a rolling pin. :laugh4:

Bessie provided a nice outlet for my frustration though. I deliberately left her fate ambiguous at the end just in case someone decides to bring her back one day.

:laugh4:

Apologies for that. Both were my ideas. :embarassed:

I thought of the cheese grater and rolling pin as more "pizza" tools. Particularly with the cheese grater I had an image in my mind of the target's face being graphically grated off. The rolling pin kill was pretty much exactly what I expected, though.

I'll get those PMs structured into a nice post now...

EDIT: Pic of a cheese grater (http://www.denovoverseas.com/images/products/graters/cheese-grater-big.jpg). Those holes are sharp! Imagine having that thing scraped across your face.

Askthepizzaguy

04-07-2010, 00:23

It was you behind all that rampant Pizza WIFOM?

I'm going to get you back for that someday. I don't know when or how, but I've got your number my friend. You're going down! :laugh4:

Chaotix

04-07-2010, 00:50

The Night 1 exchange. I returned from having no power to find myself dead in one game and mafia in another! Subotan had already sent in orders by this time and the deadline had passed. I was a little confused when the write-up finally rolled around, as Subotan had forgotten he chose Andres and not TinCow. :laugh4:

Hey, look forward to working with you :bow:

My intuition demanded I pick Tincow as your choice, and I decided to help relieve Crazed Rabbit of all the pressure of coping with two large games at once by killing him.

Oooh, right off the bat with two big names... That's sure to cause some controversy.

Crazed Rabbit seems right, but I'm not entirely sure about TinCow. He may be very useful to have around as a scapegoat for a lynch instead. Remember- since there are NO other pro-town roles in this game, anyone we kill is a confirmed innocent. As an innocent, I am sure TinCow will be very helpful to the town....

But then again, he also said he wouldn't be paying a whole lot of attention to this game. Perhaps he will just drop it entirely once he's dead.

Gah! There's probably no reason to get all complicated over the Round 1 kills. Part of me wonders if it won't tip off the other vets, but there's a WIFOM-within-WIFOM argument for that, too.

Let's just go with it. We'll get more in-depth with strategy in later rounds, eh? :2thumbsup:

Night 2 kills. Sorry atheotes and Double A! :clown:

Who shall we off tonight?

Personally, I'm thinking atheotes and Double A. My reasoning:

atheotes always seems to be accused of being mafia. This round in particular he came under fire from Renata, and was at odds with her the whole time. Killing atheotes will look like an obvious framing of Renata. I'm going for a reverse-reverse psychology here: Renata is known for being crafty, so she would be the sort of person make it look like she got framed while in fact it was her all along- and as an added bonus, her enemy is now dead.

Double A is one of those players who never, ever seems to come under direct fire. He jokes around but rarely gets any serious votes, or even pressure. I think he's a poor scapegoat at best, so we may as well kill him sooner than later- leave the more suspicious-looking players alive the longest.

What are your thoughts?

Double A sounds good. He always to be a background character in mafia games, staying out of the limelight.

Atheotes I'm a bit more unsure of, but I don't have any other ideas, so yeah, go for it.

This is after I got lynched Day 3- Now we got serious. Seriously.

Well, that's a real bummer. Hard to believe that virtually a single post near the start of the round got me lynched.

I was all excited for this one, too...

Am I allowed to PM with Subotan still, or is it up to him alone?

Yikes, this going to get ugly. IMHO, you played a late game strategy (Refuting every point, indepth analysis) when you should have been playing an early game strategy (Pooh-poohing the accusation, inane posts that mean nothing). So the bandwagon stuck to you when it could have rolled off and attached itself to someone else. And luck played a part too of course :shrug: (As well as my not voting for Methos....I was asleep when all the Methos analysis came about)

I didn't respond to Khaan's bandwagon on me for that reason, but he'll remember it. I doubt I could kill him so soon after his attempted bandwagon, but I'll have to get rid of him soon.

And yes, I'll need your advice for this. I'm thinking Csargo, as he's a vet who has stayed reasonably quiet, and I'm also looking for someone who might be able to frame either Secura or Renata. Maybe Ibn-Khaldun, but it seems harsh to kill him so soon after what happened in Shadow Fort. Centurion1 might be a good choice, as I've never seen him contribute anything to a mafia game.

What do you think? I'm really open to what you suggest, as I want to keep you in the game if not in form but in spirit (literally).

Csargo and Centurion sound good right now. I think it might be a good idea to continually drop hints towards Renata's guiltiness for the time being. However, if we make it seem too obvious then it will look like a blatant framing. These two are completely unrelated, but neither will likely fall under much pressure until the endgame. Let's get rid of them now.

Night 4. This is the first Pizza write-up, with the Pizza Paddle. I'm not sure either of us knew how much controversy it would cause... we forewent the Five-seveN kill because split was inactive anyway.

I'm thinking:
Winston Hughes: To implicate Psychonaut (As Centurion1 also voted for Psychonaut)
Kagemusha: To implicate Renata

Any thoughts? Like I said, I'm really open to what you suggest; I don't want this to turn into a Subotan vs. Humanity game. (Although that would be cool...)

Winston sounds fine. I would be wary of killing Kage, though- if we do that he becomes a confirmed innocent, and from what I've heard there's nothing more dangerous than a believable Kage on the hunt (well, except maybe a random lynch :clown:).

Perhaps pick someone low-profile, like johnhughthom or Joooray?

Also, I have an idea. Perform one of the kills with a Five-seveN pistol, as it could implicate splitpersonality.

Night 5 is when we started preparing our mid-game strategy. The rest of the PMs from here on out will be filled with juicy strategy tidbits. Also, this one may be of particular interest to ATPG... :grin:

Got any ideas for tonight?

Well, let's see... we need to start getting a mid-to-endgame strategy going here.

I think we should knock off another low profile player, along with someone that will cause a controversy. Here's the problem- the more we kill low profile players, the more YOU will stand out, because you too are low profile, low post count.

Among the low-profiles I would suggest for now are: Blackadder, Methos, Joooray, shlin, CDF, w&f, Psychonaut, or split.

As for someone that will cause a stir, let's narrow down the rest of them.

First off, there are quite a few characters that simply will be lynched if we let them live long enough. These are mainly the vets and the big names: Sasaki, ATPG, Kagemusha, Beskar, TinCow, Reenk Roink. We should only knock them off sparingly.

There are others who have likely become lynch-bait due to past suspicion: Ibn-Khaldun, Renata, and perhaps Thermal Mercury. Leave these ones alive till the end.

There are some kills we can make that will create a WIFOM frame: Killing white_eyes, pever, or Reenk will set off the other two- probably on either each other or on Beefy, who never comes under suspicion normally unless he survives to the endgame. Killing Secura will look like a revenge-kill for anyone out of the many players she has accused or argued with, like Kagemusha. What's more, I believe Secura will also be very hard to get lynched.

So, in conclusion... for tonight, I think we should go for:

1. Someone on the "lurker list".
2. Either Secura, white_eyes, or Reenk.

Also, about the write-ups themselves:

-Whether you realized it or not when you first suggested it, that pizza paddle write up worked brilliantly. It may not have garnered votes for ATPG, but it planted that seed of suspicion and WIFOM, all due to the relation in his name. It can be argued, and it will be argued, that ATPG put that write-up in there to brag to us at the end when he wins- the same way that Crazed Rabbit put himself in a bunny suit during his Capo III kills. I think that we should have a pizza-related write-up EVERY night phase, because it will freak people out. Go with a pizza cutter tonight, definitely.

It is important to note, though, that when pizza does come under suspicion for that, you act naturally. If the case would have sounded too tenuous to you as a townie, then don't go for it, but jump on the bandwagon if it goes wild and you would have done it anyway.

Well, that's what I think, anyway. I mean, I'm no expert, I got killed already! :laugh4:
In the end, go with what you feel is right. The only thing I strongly suggest is the continuation of those pizza write-ups- they are devious.

For Night 6 there was relatively little discussion, as Subo was away. I subbed in orders for him:

Ok, here's my suggestions for tonight Subo:

1. Secura. Because she will never be lynched.
2. Beskar. Because he will probably flip out on Renata.

In fact, BOTH kills will implicate Renata, but we can make it look like she's covering it up instead of being framed by also implicating ATPG in the kill method.

Unless we can come up with something better, the pizza kill should be with a cheese grater.
And as for the 'animal' kill... how about a mad cow?

What were you thinking for tonight's kills?

Night 7. Another looooong PM. Mid-to-endgame strategy in here.

Let's see... I'm thinking pevergreen and Ibn-Khaldun tonight. How about you?
You sure? Pevergreen appears to want himself dead anyway, and Ibn is as scummy as hell

I've got a good feeling about Kage. He's being active, and were I town, I wouldn't be thinking he was scummy.

Really? Renata is really ripping at Kage, and he's starting to look more and more suspicious to types like ATPG and Sasaki. I predict the two of them will vote for him next round- they've practically set it up for a conflict.

I thought pever might be a good choice because, after that stunt he pulled, there's no way the town will vote for him again.

Ibn has not been getting a whole lot of attention at all lately, but you're probably right- he'll come back into the spotlight soon enough.

The only thing we have to worry about is that we don't leave you as the only lurker alive in the endgam, as it will make you incredibly conspicuous. That's why I'm thinking we gotta knock off a big name or two here and there. I am convinced, however, that Kage, ATPG, and Sasaki will still get themselves lynched.

I'm gonna go down the list again and share my thought process... in the end it is of course your decision.

Sasaki Kojiro- lynchbait, eventually.

Askthepizzaguy- utter lynchbait, we're destroying him with these write-ups.

Beefy187- relatively low-suspicion for mid-game Beefy... on second consideration he could be a good choice.

Methos- lurking, and scummy. We should bring him along for the ride.

Kagemusha- I predict that he's probably tomorrow or the day after's lynch. And we also have the so-called "curse of Kage" that I don't want to have cited as our reason for losing.

Captain Blackadder- probably WoG-bait. May as well leave him be.

Joooray- bandwagoner, but not under fire. Possible choice.

pevergreen- no matter how close he came to being lynched, now even ATPG thinks he is innocent. If we let him live, it will take a long time to get them to lynch him again.

Renata- Likely to come under attack sooner or later. She is all-offense and leaving herself open to attack.

Thermal Mercury- lynchbait, I think. Very soon.

Ibn-Khaldun- Scummy, but not under fire for it... unsure.

woad&fangs- lurking, maybe even WoG-bait. Let him get himself killed.

Psychonaut- lurking. Another possible endgame companion.

Reenk Roink- The way he rubs on people, he WILL be lynched. It is but a matter of time.

------------------------------

So, the way I see it now, there are 4 lurkers left besides you, and the rest are active: Methos, Blackadder, woad&fangs, and Psychonaut. Of those, 2 (Blackadder and woad) will be WoG'd soon. It stands to reason that we probably want to leave the other two alive so that you are not basically the "odd one out" in the endgame.

Our possible kills now are those players that are the least likely to be lynched soon. I think that those are limited to: Beefy, Joooray, and pevergreen. If you don't like those options, we can expand that to include Thermal, Reenk, and Ibn, as it may be a while before the town really goes after them.

That leaves 4 remaining who are high-profile, high-probability of lynch players: ATPG, Sasaki, Renata, Kage. They are currently dominating the discussion, and they are all attacking each other.

:confused:

This is really coming down to the wire, and I may be overthinking things. I don't know. Anyway, to sum it up, my new suggestions: Beefy, Joooray, or pevergreen.

-------------------------------------

Also, we should think about kill methods. What else can we possibly do that's pizza related? Perhaps... a pizza-dough rolling pin?

Animals... killer bees? sharks? skunks? rather unpleasant birds? Or perhaps we could mix it up and do somethng completely unrelated...

Am I talking too much? Would you rather have less of my constant insight, or is this helpful for you?

Oh no, discussion like this is really helpful. This my first mafia game as mafia, and the discussion is really useful.

I agree with Joooray, as I'd kind of overlooked him before because he's lurking so much, heh. PEVERGREEN's death may also implicate Tincow.

GH wants to go further with the Bessie idea, and I agree with him for two reasons. One, the use of a cow could be linked to Beefy quite succinctly enough for it to be plausible. Also, there appears to be some kind of IRL connection between Beefy and PEVERGREEN, so him dying thanks to a cow could have interesting results. And a rolling pin sounds good

Night 8. This one is endgame strategy.

So... who do we kill tonight? It's getting progressively harder to choose. At some point it could get so difficult and complicated strategy-wise that it might be better to just pick'em randomly or on whim.

First off:

Captain Blackadder has managed to prolong his existence by posting and voting, and as such he will probably not be WoG'd as we had hoped. I think he should be one of our kills.

-------

The other kill is much harder to call.

There are some that we just shouldn't kill: ATPG, Sasaki, Kage, Psychonaut, woad.
This is because they are either high-profile lynch targets or low-profile players you can blend with.

Speaking of low-profile- Thermal hit the nail on the head with his analysis this turn. On one hand, I want to get rid of him so he doesn't say it again... on the other, nobody is really believing him and he is perceived as scummy.

Ibn is looking less and less scummy the longer this game goes on. I'm not sure the town will lynch him, so we may have to take care of him.

Reenk is low profile now, but will likely be accused by ATPG very soon, causing massive walls of text and controversy from both... I suppose we could kill him, but it would seem a shame.

Beefy is likely the same story as Reenk, but I predict he will be much harder to lynch in the end. We'll have to consider killing him at some point.

Renata is enigmatic- I thought for sure she would come under fire this round, and she posts a lot. I don't like the idea of killing her right now.

------------------------------

So if we can rule out Reenk and Renata as unfavorable for now- that leaves Thermal, Ibn, and Beefy to choose from for our second kill. If you've got other ideas, please share them, though.

We've also got to think about end-game. I think the ideal final four is probably:

2 out of: ATPG, Sasaki, Kage
1 out of: Psychonaut, woad&fangs
And you, of course.

So, if some of them aren't lynched... we have to kill them. Although, there could be other combinations that lead to a winner. I think this is the best because then you have the two big players accusing each other and/or trying to figure out which between you and the other lurker is the mafioso. Of course, there are definitely other winning combinations... I'm unsure how it would work out if all the big players were dead- more like a random chance.

--------------------------

For the kills- one should be done by smothering the person in a giant pot of molten cheese fondue. :laugh4:

Ok, that's all I've got for now.

-Chaotix

Well, that's it. I hope you have enjoyed this insight into the minds of the mafia masters that you so thoroughly trounced. :clown:

Reenk Roink

04-07-2010, 01:00

Good game GH :bow:

Sasaki Kojiro

04-07-2010, 01:02

Chaotix

04-07-2010, 01:05

Wow...I had literally no idea any attempt was being made at framing Renata :dizzy2:

The pizza thing could have worked very well though, especially if you'd conspicuously stopped it once we got to endgame. Maybe even could have provoked a self vote :p

Well, we kinda dropped that idea once we were having more success with framing ATPG. :laugh4:

TinCow

04-07-2010, 01:21

Thermal

04-07-2010, 01:21

Wow...I had literally no idea any attempt was being made at framing Renata :dizzy2:

Same.

It was an interesting read chaotix. :smiley:

Askthepizzaguy

04-07-2010, 01:33

Well, we kinda dropped that idea once we were having more success with framing ATPG. :laugh4:

I cannot believe anyone here who was innocent would seriously believe I'd do that to myself as mafia in a vanilla game. I'm the most misunderstood player around, man.

Self-vote, yes. Asking to be killed? Never.

Secura

04-07-2010, 01:35

Naturally, I'm really curious about the orders for Night Six, where you ordered the kills on myself and Beskar as detailed below:

Ok, here's my suggestions for tonight Subo:

1. Secura. Because she will never be lynched.
2. Beskar. Because he will probably flip out on Renata.

In fact, BOTH kills will implicate Renata, but we can make it look like she's covering it up instead of being framed by also implicating ATPG in the kill method.

Unless we can come up with something better, the pizza kill should be with a cheese grater.
And as for the 'animal' kill... how about a mad cow?

What were you thinking for tonight's kills?

How come you two felt that I would never be lynched? I guess I'm jumping the gun a little but I was under the impression that until I died, I was very much in the town's list of suspects, or Sasaki's in the very least (never a good list to be in!). I think I would have been lynched sooner or later. :3

And what led you to believe that Beskie would flip out at Renata too? I think he got a little "meh" with the game after his death, and I feel the circumstances of Shadow Fort might have contributed to that. I don't think his death had the impact you desired, at any rate.

My own suspects included Psychonaut, Subotan and Thermal, to varying extents across the course of the game. I did feel that at this late stage we were still looking at two mafia alive, and never had Chaotix pegged down as scum... I felt he was a weak lynch. The Subotan reasoning was excellent, though, exactly how I would have voted to the letter. Good job on that one. :3

Sasaki Kojiro

04-07-2010, 01:35

Self-vote, yes. Asking to be killed? Never.

:laugh4:

Sasaki Kojiro

04-07-2010, 01:38

Chaotix

04-07-2010, 01:44

Naturally, I'm really curious about the orders for Night Six, where you ordered the kills on myself and Beskar as detailed below:

How come you two felt that I would never be lynched? I guess I'm jumping the gun a little but I was under the impression that until I died, I was very much in the town's list of suspects, or Sasaki's in the very least (never a good list to be in!). I think I would have been lynched sooner or later. :3

And what led you to believe that Beskie would flip out at Renata too? I think he got a little "meh" with the game after his death, and I feel the circumstances of Shadow Fort might have contributed to that. I don't think his death had the impact you desired, at any rate.

My own suspects included Psychonaut, Subotan and Thermal, to varying extents across the course of the game. I did feel that at this late stage we were still looking at two mafia alive, and never had Chaotix pegged down as scum... I felt he was a weak lynch. The Subotan reasoning was excellent, though, exactly how I would have voted to the letter. Good job on that one. :3

The way I saw it in the thread, it appeared as if you were making a lot of posts, good analysis, and pressuring those that you thought were mafia. Which is, well, dangerous. And then, even though you were being active, you had garnered hardly any votes, and nobody was calling you out on it. It seemed like the town genuinely did not think you were mafia (except for Kage, but he was under suspicion himself), and on top of that you were a threat if you started looking into more of the lurking posters.

The Beskar kill was because he had been seemingly suspicious of Renata all game- he was voting her and pressuring her more than anyone else, anyway. And the way he is, I thought he might think that it was Renata's way of getting rid of him while still framing Pizza and at the same time killing you, Secura- so we had the pseudo/joke-couple thing in there, too.

:shrug:

It seemed like a good idea at the time. :laugh4:

Askthepizzaguy

04-07-2010, 01:45

:laugh4:

You have to give me credit, I said it with a straight face.

<------------------

Chaotix

04-07-2010, 01:49

Oh, ATPG-

A couple of times I had maniacal giggling fits while trying to decide how best to frame you next. :grin:

I knew you were the only person that we could frame, make it blatant, and actually have it work to some degree. Your reactions and Thermal's were some of the funniest.

Secura

04-07-2010, 01:54

The way I saw it in the thread, it appeared as if you were making a lot of posts, good analysis, and pressuring those that you thought were mafia. Which is, well, dangerous. And then, even though you were being active, you had garnered hardly any votes, and nobody was calling you out on it. It seemed like the town genuinely did not think you were mafia (except for Kage, but he was under suspicion himself), and on top of that you were a threat if you started looking into more of the lurking posters.

You flatter me, this might be the best comment I've recieved about my playing style since I came here... thank you. I personally wanted to be killed, as it would relieve me of any pressure and still allow me to contribute towards town discussion, but I had this feeling that my thoughts would generally be ignored, and kept them to myself. As I said, though, I never had you down as mafia at all, although Subotan was on my list of suspects.

The Beskar kill was because he had been seemingly suspicious of Renata all game- he was voting her and pressuring her more than anyone else, anyway. And the way he is, I thought he might think that it was Renata's way of getting rid of him while still framing Pizza and at the same time killing you, Secura- so we had the pseudo/joke-couple thing in there, too.

When I asked Beskie who he thought it was, he said Centurion1! I think at that time I was angling towards Pizza, thinking the references to him in the writeups were simply a clever wine-laden, smoke-covered gambit designed to throw the town off, but as the references became more persistent and somewhat transparant I just completely absolved him of any culpability in my mind; it felt as though the town was going to waste a lynch on him at some point... I'm glad they decided against it.

Beskie and I did joke that it would be funny if Pizza and Sasaki were both the mafia, though; two of the best players here, nearly always suspected by someone and yet both of them alive as the game reached the denouement... it was quite the surprise.

White_eyes:D

04-07-2010, 01:56

Wow...I had literally no idea any attempt was being made at framing Renata :dizzy2:

The pizza thing could have worked very well though, especially if you'd conspicuously stopped it once we got to endgame. Maybe even could have provoked a self vote :pDo you have any thoughts that it was Pizzaguy using WIFOM on himself?:laugh4:(I know I did).
How much of the write-ups did GH do? because I don't think Subo or Chaotix could frame players that WELL:stare:

Askthepizzaguy

04-07-2010, 01:57

I want everyone to look at my avatar for a moment.

Do you see that rather large border around my face? That's called a FRAME.

https://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb225/askthepizzaguy/Framed.gif

Askthepizzaguy: Always Innocent.

Chaotix

04-07-2010, 02:02

Do you have any thoughts that it was Pizzaguy using WIFOM on himself?:laugh4:(I know I did).
How much of the write-ups did GH do? because I don't think Subo or Chaotix could frame players that WELL:stare:

GH did all of the write-ups. We only gave him the kill methods, though- which did mean that the actual pizza-framing ideas were ours.

Subo didn't want to do write-ups, and I really didn't have time. I think it's actually a distinct advantage to have the host doing write-ups, though- because then, no matter what, your writing style cannot be recognized. That was one thing that would have worried me constantly had I been doing them myself. I know ATPG might have been able to pick up on it, for one.

Sasaki Kojiro

04-07-2010, 02:03

Do you have any thoughts that it was Pizzaguy using WIFOM on himself?:laugh4:(I know I did).
How much of the write-ups did GH do? because I don't think Subo or Chaotix could frame players that WELL:stare:

I thought maybe he did it to have that fake argument between him and beefy (beefy being his scumpartner in this scenario). But I never really stuck with it.

White_eyes:D

04-07-2010, 02:08

IN your head you always think "I am a townie" it's how you get by....but I like Sasaki's "Just sneak by" strategy...makes him harder to lynch or even frame....almost impossible really:shrug:

beating either goes like this....Meta-game Pizzaguy and always think Sasaki is a bigger threat then he actually is...:bounce:

White_eyes:D

04-07-2010, 02:12

GH did all of the write-ups. We only gave him the kill methods, though- which did mean that the actual pizza-framing ideas were ours.

Subo didn't want to do write-ups, and I really didn't have time. I think it's actually a distinct advantage to have the host doing write-ups, though- because then, no matter what, your writing style cannot be recognized. That was one thing that would have worried me constantly had I been doing them myself. I know ATPG might have been able to pick up on it, for one. I did pretty good in Godfather 3....I just hide my writing-style in a different mind-set....sort of like going from a mean person to a good person....me and Beefy made it to the end....but Sasaki had to cut us down:stare::laugh4:

Askthepizzaguy

04-07-2010, 02:14

I wonder if that whole "certain players are lynchbait" strategy should be shelved after this result.

Honestly, Reenk and Ibn needed to be murdered. I was never ever going to vote for either one.

White_eyes:D

04-07-2010, 02:20

Taking out Sasaki would have been VERY smart.....it's risky, since it clears him as an innocent....but he would have lost his vote and would only be able to FoS you.:book:

In "The Godfather3" me and Beefy were always concerned about leaving people with good analysis skills alive....it was a risk, since they could pick up on your behavior....:shame:(I still cleared Skynet:bounce:)

Sasaki Kojiro

04-07-2010, 02:22

Well, I did pull three votes this round.

GeneralHankerchief

04-07-2010, 02:25

Thermal

04-07-2010, 02:29

Chaotix

04-07-2010, 02:30

I wonder if that whole "certain players are lynchbait" strategy should be shelved after this result.

Honestly, Reenk and Ibn needed to be murdered. I was never ever going to vote for either one.

I kept considering Ibn but then we found other targets. Reenk was a different story. First, I never realized that anyone would go and think, "these kill write-ups aren't like Reenk, it can't be him". Second, I was thinking of when Reenk was much more active and always in the spotlight like you and Sasaki are.

At one point the thought of random.org killing popped into my mind; that could've been fun but risky.

Honestly, I was counting on the assumption that you and Sasaki would be at odds for most of the game, and that's why I wanted you two to live. If it was the end-game, and we were left with you two, woad&fangs, and Subotan, I would have put our chances of victory at 90%.

White_eyes:D

04-07-2010, 02:30

I have to recheck my totals, but I'm pretty sure Sasaki garnered at least a vote in every single round. I think had it come down to it, he would have been lynched in either the penultimate or final round just to sheer town paranoia.But if he was killed? think of the WIFOM...:dizzy:

GeneralHankerchief

04-07-2010, 02:33

But if he was killed? think of the WIFOM...:dizzy:

Not really. In this kind of game there's really no point in putting any thought into why certain people were killed because the mafia can just run circles around you. All that would have happened is that Sasaki would have lost a vote and been cleared as an innocent.

White_eyes:D

04-07-2010, 02:37

Why did I get so far in Godfather 3 then?:wink:

By doing the unexpected, not the norm.....because town would be like "WT:daisy:"?

Sasaki is dead....who would have the nerve to kill him? and paranoia would have exploded....ATPG might have been lynched because of it:laugh4:

Askthepizzaguy

04-07-2010, 02:38

White_eyes:D

04-07-2010, 02:40

I think people don't like that he really knows how to "sneak by" so to speak....but Sasaki never complains, he enjoys it:clown:

Sasaki Kojiro

04-07-2010, 02:41

GeneralHankerchief

04-07-2010, 02:49

Chaotix

04-07-2010, 02:50

Askthepizzaguy

04-07-2010, 02:50

If you have a suspect you want dead, declare them to be innocent and stop voting for them. Never even mention them again.

If that doesn't work after 3 or 4 rounds, then lynch him.

Askthepizzaguy

04-07-2010, 02:55

I'd actually put 'khaan in that same category with you.

I like it when Khaan is mafia. He is very entertaining. I'm actually disappointed whenever I find out he's townie, like in Capo III.

Sasaki Kojiro

04-07-2010, 02:56

I honestly wonder at this point if some people have just gotten an image of Sasaki in their mind where they go "I don't care what happens, he's gotta be lynched before the game is over".

I feel a bit of that at times. Is Sasaki just some person that people cannot bear to lose to?

Well, finding mafia is basically a pattern matching task. Mafia = square hole, lurking = square peg kind of thing. Certain behaviors match up with our idea of what mafia do, and that's what we find suspicious. "Being Sasaki" is one of those behaviors.

I think people don't like that he really knows how to "sneak by" so to speak....but Sasaki never complains, he enjoys it:clown:

Being suspected is half the fun :beam:

It was the same thing with Kage in Mafia VIII. All the dead were screaming for him to be strung up simply because he had been suspicious forever and they couldn't bear the thought of losing when he had been lynchbait for so long. Luckily for the town, cooler heads prevailed.

Yeah, that's a tough one to get past as town. That comes up a lot in endgame, "well, I'd rather lose to...".

Thermal

04-07-2010, 03:06

No no no, Sasaki obviously uses his Japanese Daiymo to scare us.

Sasaki with Avatar of an Imam = Fail

Good choice of avatar means a lot, I think this one allows us to take you seriously whilst we get to see your playful white teeth.

I did not just say that...

Sasaki Kojiro

04-07-2010, 03:08

In the previous version I had, you could actually see the spear I'm stabbing you with. Hmm, maybe this one is better.

woad&fangs

04-07-2010, 03:15

Woohoo!!! I wasn't WoG'd! Take THAT Mafia scum :smile:

naut

04-07-2010, 05:52

:beam:

Yey! We win. Cheers GH, very enjoyable.

seireikhaan

04-07-2010, 06:16

Now, shall we all join together in kowtow to the Grand Bandwagon? ~D

Naturally, I shall defer taking credit for this victory to his Grand Bandwagonness.

Methos

04-07-2010, 06:46

Sorry, Methos and Sasaki! had to give it a shot. I'm just glad I abandoned that whole premise and listened to Sasaki.

No problem. I wasn't paying very close attention to this game and posted just enough not to be WoG'ed.

Thanks for posting the PM's chaotix, as they helped me a lot. I'm still used to playing the way CFC does. The primary difference there is once your dead, you can't discuss the game anymore, hence the reason good players are often taken out early at CFC. Since .org allows players to continue talking, its entirely different and I can understand why you don't want to kill them.

Again, thanks for the PMs. It was a definite help for me.

Excellent game GH. Sorry I wasn't more active in it.

pevergreen

04-07-2010, 07:03

Bah. Killed because of my first successful defence from a lynch. And what a bad defence it was. I should have been lynched tbh.

I seem to be out of it. I was playing mafia, but I didn't have thoughts of who was innocent or guilty at all...somethings wrong with me. Maybe not playing (because of hosting) for a bit will fix me.

Nudge nudge, sign up.
:wink:

Great writeups GH. :yes:

Unlucky Chaotix, and you did better than I have in that situation Subo.
:bow:

Subotan

04-07-2010, 09:13

I thought of the cheese grater and rolling pin as more "pizza" tools. Particularly with the cheese grater I had an image in my mind of the target's face being graphically grated off. The rolling pin kill was pretty much exactly what I expected, though.
We ended up stretching the the idea of a pizza mafia to the very limits. I honestly had no idea by the fondue kill how I could kill someone with anything pizza-related that we hadn't used.

Wow...I had literally no idea any attempt was being made at framing Renata :dizzy2:

The pizza thing could have worked very well though, especially if you'd conspicuously stopped it once we got to endgame. Maybe even could have provoked a self vote :p
We were trying to be subtle about it. Too subtle, apparently.

I figured that we had to go all out on the Pizza thing, as the demands for a lynch would become irresistible.

How come you two felt that I would never be lynched? I guess I'm jumping the gun a little but I was under the impression that until I died, I was very much in the town's list of suspects, or Sasaki's in the very least (never a good list to be in!). I think I would have been lynched sooner or later. :3

It was very clear you were innocent. Dunno how, but it just was.

So you had to go :beam:

How much of the write-ups did GH do? because I don't think Subo or Chaotix could frame players that WELL:stare:
The pizza paddle was admittedly a spur of the moment thing, and I thought that GH would use it like an axe.

But it worked well :beam:

Bah. Killed because of my first successful defence from a lynch. And what a bad defence it was. I should have been lynched tbh.

I seem to be out of it. I was playing mafia, but I didn't have thoughts of who was innocent or guilty at all...somethings wrong with me. Maybe not playing (because of hosting) for a bit will fix me.

Nudge nudge, sign up.
:wink:

Great writeups GH. :yes:

Unlucky Chaotix, and you did better than I have in that situation Subo.
:bow:
It was actually such a good defence that you had to die. No sane townie would have cast a single vote on you, so it was up to us to dispatch you.

And thanks. With regards to the first accusations made at me, I was perfectly aware of what was going on. I reckoned that I had to pooh-pooh the accusations as quickly as possible, and I quickly turned the conversation into one of mafia theory to make it look like I was a good little townie. By the time the second one rolled along, I came on my dad's iphone to find that twenty posts had popped up detailing my guilt, so I panicked and lost my "COLD"-ness. So, I died :shrug:

Although I think that being called "COLD" is probably the greatest compliment I've ever seen in a mafia game, so thanks Renata :laugh4:

Kagemusha

04-07-2010, 10:51

Haha, yes I did. 13 votes in total, within striking distance of a lynch twice.

Kage would have voted me in endgame.

I think i would have. :embarassed:It would seem that lately for some strange reason you get so much of my attention that i become too focused on monitoring your actions. Clearly i need to start paying less attention to you my friend. Nevertheless i think it was at start of atleast three rounds that you said i was among the best lynches?

Thermal

04-07-2010, 12:56

I now know why Subotan wanted me lynched so much. :tongue:

Renata

04-07-2010, 13:20

I may be the only one who did think that Secura/Beskar might be an attempt to frame me. Glad I wasn't stupid enough to bring it up. :laugh4:

Renata

04-07-2010, 13:38

Renata

04-07-2010, 13:41

Although I think that being called "COLD" is probably the greatest compliment I've ever seen in a mafia game, so thanks Renata :laugh4:

You're quite welcome! And well deserved, also.