Koinon Hellenon: Athens X Sparta (.org X TWCenter), a participative AAR - Athenai

[Gaius Sempronius Gracchus]

"Leumenes, I thank you for your ability to see an argument for what it is, and - as a true Greek - to seperate it from the person. You are wise and magnanimous. May Ares watch over you with favour.

Glaucos, I understand your concern over Pella. For me the same reasoning attends to your proposal as any proposal to attack Thermon. It is well garrisoned, by experienced soldiers lead by experienced commanders. To take Pella will be to spill too much Greek blood and then place ourselves in direct line of sight of the Epirotes' expansionism; moreover, Pella is a place they will feel is theirs by right. Taking Mytilene, and bringing Pergamon into our sphere of influence will open up great trading possibilities, as well as weakening the Macedons. With allied enemies on all sides Pella will become a prison for the Macedons. Weaken Macedon, increase our trading abilities, and hold Pella - as Thermon - as a buffer between ourselves and further enemies within Hellas. Until such time as we are on a more favourable financial footing.

Let us take a longer view.

For those reasons I DISAGREE with the proposal to attack Pella."

[Gaius Sempronius Gracchus]

"Glaucos, I understand your concern over Pella. For me the same reasoning attends to your proposal as any proposal to attack Thermon. It is well garrisoned, by experienced soldiers lead by experienced commanders. To take Pella will be to spill too much Greek blood and then place ourselves in direct line of sight of the Epirotes' expansionism; moreover, Pella is a place they will feel is theirs by right. Taking Mytilene, and bringing Pergamon into our sphere of influence will open up great trading possibilities, as well as weakening the Macedons. With allied enemies on all sides Pella will become a prison for the Macedons. Weaken Macedon, increase our trading abilities, and hold Pella - as Thermon - as a buffer between ourselves and further enemies within Hellas. Until such time as we are on a more favourable financial footing.

Let us take a longer view.

For those reasons I DISAGREE with the proposal to attack Pella."

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

Arthouros stood up and spoke:

"Demosthenes, I wholeheartedly AGREE, we cannot be too rash in this matter, for it is unwise to slay one foreign Tyrannos and then have to deal with the next one, when we have been weakened by our confrontation with the first.

In addition I am not so sure that we at this time have the mnai required to raise an army to face both the Makedones and the Epiriotai, which could be rectified somewhat if we gain control over Krete and Mytilene.

As it is advisable that we do not assault Pella at this time, perhaps we can play Pyrrhos and Antigonos Gonatas against each other?

I PROPOSE we send a diplomat to the court of Pyrrhos, advising him to launch an assault at Pella *, telling him that our forces will be there as well, while we actually order our troops to stay where they are, thereby weakening both of them.


I also PROPOSE that we fortify the mountain pass to the west of Demetrias, so that the Makedones cannot pass through there as easily, giving us more time to prepare for the eventual defence of Demetrias."





*(request military assistance/"Attack faction Makedonia")

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

Arthouros added:

"I also PROPOSE that we ask the Spartatai to let us Athenians decide the governance of Kydonia in exchange for that we upon the future liberation of Thermon, allow them to decide the system of governance there."


~Arthouros

[jirisys]

Glaucos then spoke:

I AGREE with Kairos and Arthouros proposals.

I DISAGREE with any offensive action against mytilene for now, it is my strong believe, that taking Pella would weaken the Makedons a lot more. Let us forget about Asia minor until our homeland is secure. Because now, the alliance army has to remain on guard to protect from incursions coming from Pella, severely hampering our offensive capabilities. Yet, if after the conquest of Kretai, we throw all our strength against Pella, we can take it, and then proceed onto Epiros. Only after our homeland is secure, should we concern us with other regions, regions that might bring us in conflict with other powers.
Therefore I PROPOSE that after our conquest of Kretai, we muster our strength for an assault on Pella.


Kaleros stood tall and wide, a master in horseriding and agoge, not the wisest of the athenian council but a man of millitary knowhow...

Makedonians... Ha, barbarian witout a shade of true greek courage! I PROPOSE that we rip the weed out with the root and go STRAIGHT for Pella, now or never! In a joint Athenai-Spartai assault, with everything we got!

may Ares and Athene be with you all wise and just friends!

I AGREE with the proposal brought forth by Kairos.

Leumenes, very groggy from his sleep stood up.

I DISAGREE with your proposals, It would be wiser to have them sorrounded in mainland, rather than protected by sea. As their last stand won't be so small.


Arthouros stood up and spoke:

"Demosthenes, I wholeheartedly AGREE, we cannot be too rash in this matter, for it is unwise to slay one foreign Tyrannos and then have to deal with the next one, when we have been weakened by our confrontation with the first.

In addition I am not so sure that we at this time have the mnai required to raise an army to face both the Makedones and the Epiriotai, which could be rectified somewhat if we gain control over Krete and Mytilene.

As it is advisable that we do not assault Pella at this time, perhaps we can play Pyrrhos and Antigonos Gonatas against each other?

I PROPOSE we send a diplomat to the court of Pyrrhos, advising him to launch an assault at Pella *, telling him that our forces will be there as well, while we actually order our troops to stay where they are, thereby weakening both of them.


I also PROPOSE that we fortify the mountain pass to the west of Demetrias, so that the Makedones cannot pass through there as easily, giving us more time to prepare for the eventual defence of Demetrias."





*(request military assistance/"Attack faction Makedonia")


Arthouros added:

"I also PROPOSE that we ask the Spartatai to let us Athenians decide the governance of Kydonia in exchange for that we upon the future liberation of Thermon, allow them to decide the system of governance there."


~Arthouros

I AGREE with your proposals Arthouros.

Leuemenes sat down, half asleep.

~Jirisys ()

[Gaius Sempronius Gracchus]

"Arthourus, I AGREE with all three of your recent proposals. Rather than wait for Epiros to attack Macedon we should, as you suggest, encourage it. If we have, by that time, crushed their forces in Asia, then we might approach them with an offer of peace and protection... so as to avoid for as long as possible direct confrontation with Epiros. And it is always wise to fortify one's borders and passes."

[Molinaargh]

Session over.

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

Kairos (Walle) proposal:

Improve the military infrastructure in Demetrias

Status: 5 AGREE , (Arthouros, Leumenes, Demosthenes, Glaucos, Kaleros), none against.



Arthouros first batch of proposals:

1. Send diplomat to Getai, ask for alliance and trade rights.

2. Spy at Krete to infiltrate Kydonia, hopefully opening the gate for our forces.

3. Expand the Agora in Athenai/and or our trading port, whichever is the most feasible.

Status: 3 AGREE (Leumenes, Demosthenes, Glaucos).



Demosthenes proposals:


1. That we move against the Macedonians at Lesbos.

Status: 2 AGREE , (Leumenes, Arthouros) one DISAGREE (Glaucos)


2. That Demtrias is to be garrisoned.

Status: 2 AGREE, (Leumenes, Arthouros)



Arthouros second batch of proposals:

1. Tricking Pyrrhos into attacking Pella, not giving him any military support, in order to weaken both him and Antigonos Gonatas. I.e. Send diplomat to Epeiros, ask them to attack Makedonia.

2. Fortify the mountain pass west of Demetrias.

3. That we ask the Spartatai to let Athenai decide the governance of Kydonia in exchange for that we let them decide the system of Governance of Thermon, upon its liberation by our combined forces.

Status: 2 AGREE
(Leumenes, Demosthenes)


Proposal by Glaucos:

Assault Pella

Status: 1 AGREE (Kaleros) 3 DISAGREE (Arthouros, Leumenes, Demosthenes)


Leumenes proposal:

"I PROPOSE we build walls as our primary building in Thermon, so more makedonians die at our gates, and greeks stay safe inside."

If I'm not mistaken none have either agreed nor disagreed to this, and since this session is over... I support it for the next session anyway.


Thought this should make things a bit easier for Molinaargh, not sure if I can keep this up though. Kinda copied this from TWC, and saw that you wished the Athenians do the same.

[Molinaargh]

Yes, thanks for that.

[jirisys]

You forgot mine:

I PROPOSE we build walls as our primary building in Demetrias, so more makedonians die at our gates, and greeks stay safe inside.

~Jirisys ()

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

https://i760.photobucket.com/albums/xx244/KingoftheBritons/649d1254790901-2009-nlds-rockies-phillies-facepalm.gif


~Arthur

[Molinaargh]

512 (264 BC)

Spartan orders:
-Alliance with Getai tribes. (Yes)
-Population of Pella to be expelled if conquered. (Not yet)
-Akrotatos moved to Athenai to study in its Academy. (Yes)
-Spartan Army to be reinforced from Korinthos. (Yes)
-Attempt to take Thermon if conditions allow. (Not yet)

Athenian orders:
-Alliance with Getai tribes. (Yes)
-Improve military recruitment and defences in Demetrias. (Yes)
-Assault Kydonia as soon as possible. (Yes)
-Fortify the mountain pass to the west of Demetrias. (Yes)
-Lesbos to be the next target. (Not yet)
-Pyrrhos to be asked to attacked Pella. The Koinon will not aid him. (No)


I have become extremely efficient in writing and formatting these reports, councilors.


https://img717.imageshack.us/img717/655/001uvf.jpg
Damasos was sent to build a small western fort, as per Athenian Council orders.

https://img690.imageshack.us/img690/6888/002cvv.jpg
The Makedones seemed to be aware of the Koinon's strong defensive position, and an army left towards the East, making Pella more vulnerable.

https://img148.imageshack.us/img148/2049/002aect.jpg
The two forts gave much safety to the newly-icorporated polis of Demetrias.

https://img153.imageshack.us/img153/9412/003oai.jpg
A deal was attempted with the Epeirotes that would make Pyrrhos attack the Makedones, but they brushed off our offers.

https://img828.imageshack.us/img828/6558/004pdb.jpg


https://img834.imageshack.us/img834/1479/005ktf.jpg
In the coast of Kretai, Doros and the Athenian Army were attacked before they could land near Kydonia.

https://img824.imageshack.us/img824/1897/006wy.jpg


https://img842.imageshack.us/img842/9389/007eq.jpg
The Athenian retreating ships ended up to the south of the island, and insisted in an assault from there.

https://img528.imageshack.us/img528/3923/008bo.jpg


https://img200.imageshack.us/img200/9028/009sv.jpg
But pirates found the Athenian Fleet soon after the desembark and sunk all of its ships. The last hope of the expedition was that Doros could quickly conquer Kydonia.

https://img51.imageshack.us/img51/7214/011hxv.jpg


https://img831.imageshack.us/img831/8241/012gfi.jpg
He assaulted it as soon as possible, and in the first battle of his life, as well as the first battle he commanded, he was up against Ainesidemos, an experienced Kretaioi strategos.

https://img705.imageshack.us/img705/9003/013pm.jpg


https://img823.imageshack.us/img823/1016/014ii.jpg


https://img822.imageshack.us/img822/3353/015yu.jpg


https://img806.imageshack.us/img806/8238/016jl.jpg


https://img145.imageshack.us/img145/6187/017rg.jpg
He still managed to win and conquer Kretai, which would now be a part of the Koinon under the influence of Athenai.

https://img51.imageshack.us/img51/660/017bvk.jpg
Sympathetic towards the Spartans and their problems, Doros chose to move much of the population from Kretai to Lakonia. The helots were moved from Kydonia to Sparte to solve the population problem once and for all.

https://img810.imageshack.us/img810/781/018vab.jpg
After pacifying the region, all government possibilities were available for the Athenians, and the Kretai waited on what would be their faith once the Athenian Army left their city. It's worth reminding that a new fleet would have to be built first.

https://img824.imageshack.us/img824/6250/019fhu.jpg
Doros's men could also be fully retrained in the polis.

https://img151.imageshack.us/img151/8140/020ir.jpg
Back in Sparte, the economy was being improved by clearing the coast to perhaps build a trading port, which would be expensive, but profitable, especially due to the recent acquisition of Kretai.

https://img96.imageshack.us/img96/4766/021nyo.jpg
With the population boost, new and strong hoplites were trained in the polis.

https://img834.imageshack.us/img834/6913/022ip.jpg
Akrotatos had left a few months before to study in the Academy of Athens, where he was rather enjoying life and the change of scenario. He was learning much and helping in Athenian administration, being the Hegemon of the Koinon.

https://img821.imageshack.us/img821/7083/023ie.jpg
In Demetrias, reinforcements were being retrained and recruited.

https://img3.imageshack.us/img3/2170/024ba.jpg
Further north, the Epeirotes had succeeded where the Makedones had failed, conquering the village of Serdike and its surroundings.

https://img834.imageshack.us/img834/637/025ti.jpg
They sent a scouting party from Serdike to Pella, but such small army was soon chased down and crushed by the Basileos.

https://img831.imageshack.us/img831/4396/026zx.jpg
In the extreme north, contact was made with the Getai tribes, who seemed to enjoy the art of war and could therefore be useful allies.

https://img812.imageshack.us/img812/9916/027vj.jpg


https://img203.imageshack.us/img203/8922/028mbf.jpg


https://img546.imageshack.us/img546/3910/030q.jpg


https://img21.imageshack.us/img21/8898/031sx.jpg
In Anatolia, Mytilene once again failed in their attempt of conquering Pergamon, even though they had a great army. At this point, it was unlikely that any Makedon nobleman in Mytilene would declare himself King of Makedonia should Pella fall, it was more likely that the polis would simply declare its independence. And Pella was now weaker than the island of Lesbos.

https://img511.imageshack.us/img511/3870/032yu.jpg
The situation of the Koinon in the winter of 512. Such situation was about to change, though, with the Koinon Elections coming up.

[Molinaargh]

KOINON ELECTIONS

https://img573.imageshack.us/img573/562/state512.jpg

State of the Alliance:

https://img52.imageshack.us/img52/2070/poleis512.jpg

Offices:

https://img156.imageshack.us/img156/1677/offices512.jpg

Candidates:

https://img694.imageshack.us/img694/821/25668338.jpg
https://img59.imageshack.us/img59/6530/athenssmall.png

https://img189.imageshack.us/img189/6576/84406223.jpg
https://img59.imageshack.us/img59/6530/athenssmall.png

https://img148.imageshack.us/img148/8242/48054611.jpg
https://img819.imageshack.us/img819/3720/spartasmall.png

https://img511.imageshack.us/img511/1588/17279235.jpg
https://img819.imageshack.us/img819/3720/spartasmall.png

https://img843.imageshack.us/img843/3666/98613793.jpg
https://img819.imageshack.us/img819/3720/spartasmall.png

https://img13.imageshack.us/img13/5475/43955479.jpg
https://img819.imageshack.us/img819/3720/spartasmall.png


Here in Athenai, one Athenian candidate must be nominated to the position of Strategos and another to the position of Hegemon.

I'd like to remind you that Chremonides may not be re-elected for the position of Strategos.

If anyone wishes to challenge the position of Party Leader of their party, they must state their candidature. Otherwise the same Party Leaders will be re-elected in their position.

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

Arthouros spoke:

"Philoi, esteemed members of the assembly, our forces have won a great victory at Krete! Allow me to commend Doros for his military prowess.

As to the matter of how the Kretai should be governed:

I PROPOSE that we make Krete a democratic Kleroucheia.

That our fleet was sunk by the Kretoi pirates is troublesome, as it both means that Doros is stranded at Krete, and that our naval power in the Aegean is compromised.

Therefore, I PROPOSE that we raise a new fleet preferably a fleet of Trireme in order to nullify this problem."

Arthouros sat down, collecting his thoughts before entering the discussions on who should be the Athenian candidate for the offices of Strategos and Hegemon.

[jirisys]

Leumenes, busy with the affairs of life, now 26. He was a scholar administrator in the Akademia, a Somatophylakes of Chremonides, and almost a husband and father. He had little time in the Boule, yet, he knew his situation would change quickly. He stood up, with his breard hanging stadia from his chin.

"My men, we have won a very costly victory, the men lost were too numerous, we lost a fleet to pirates. Yet our trade increases. I am glad to see the koinon working together. I would like to PROPOSE we build a regional Tyrannos in Kretai, as their governor was one, and bringing democracy may cause unrest. Even more because we killed many of their citiziens. Let us leave them to the Tyrannos, as we would not be able to manage it because of it's distance, and a Tyrannos would stop piracy in the area due to it's power to legislate and dictate orders. A democracy on an island far from mainland would be useless, as they would act without support from the other polis. I AGREE with Arthouros Second proposal."

He sat down, having to leave the Boule, for a short time.

~Jirisys ()

[Paltmull]

Therefore, I PROPOSE that we raise a new fleet preferably a fleet of Trireme in order to nullify this problem."


I AGREE.

If Doros is to go through that Spartan agoge, we'd better recruit ships and get him there ASAP. When i suggested that he'd go to Sparta in the end of his 19th year, I had no idea that he would be sent off to Krete.

And since Mytilene is likely to declare it's independence if Pella falls, I also PROPOSE that the next city we conquer is Pella, and not Mytilene.

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

Arthouros once again addressed the assembly, this time on the matter of who should be the Athenian candidate for the offices of Hegemon and Strategos respectively:

"Doros won a great victory at Kydonia, expanding the range of our Koinon to the people of Krete, and therefore I nominate him for the office of Strategos.

I also nominate Chremonides Aithalidos Attikos for the office of Hegemon."

~Arthouros

[Paltmull]

Arthouros once again addressed the assembly, this time on the matter of who should be the Athenian candidate for the offices of Hegemon and Strategos respectively:

"Doros won a great victory at Kydonia, expanding the range of our Koinon to the people of Krete, and therefore I nominate him for the office of Strategos.

I also nominate Chremonides Aithalidos Attikos for the office of Hegemon."

~Arthouros

If Doros is to go through the Spartan agoge, as was the will of both him and many of this council, he will be unable to hold any office during this period.

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

Visst, ja. Då nominerar jag endast Doros ifall han mot förmodan inte hinner till Sparte innan året är slut.

Muhahah, nu måste alla ni icke-svensktalande använda Google-översätt, vars översättning är ca 10 % rätt. Jag är så tvetydigt ondskefull!

... Uhm ja.

~Arthouros

[Molinaargh]

If Doros is to go through the Spartan agoge, as was the will of both him and many of this council, he will be unable to hold any office during this period.
He may hold the office, there are no laws against that. Problem is he'll be stuck in Sparta. He has literally 0% chance of becoming Strategos, so he is guaranteed to become Polemarchos if he runs for the position of Strategos.

There is no downside to this since Chremonides may only run for Hegemon.

[Paltmull]

Visst, ja. Då nominerar jag endast Doros ifall han mot förmodan inte hinner till Sparte innan året är slut.

Muhahah, nu måste alla ni icke-svensktalande använda Google-översätt, vars översättning är ca 10 % rätt. Jag är så tvetydigt ondskefull!

... Uhm ja.

~Arthouros

Vem släppte in nordborna i Atenska rådet? Jag anar att en viss vaktmästare vid namn Ludens kickar ut oss illa kvickt om vi inte är försiktiga. :sweatdrop:


He may hold the office, there are no laws against that. Problem is he'll be stuck in Sparta. He has literally 0% chance of becoming Strategos, so he is guaranteed to become Polemarchos if he runs for the position of Strategos.

There is no downside to this since Chremonides may only run for Hegemon.

He won't do much good though. And if the Strategos would happen to die, the alliance army would be completely useless since no one would be there to take over.

[Molinaargh]

He won't do much good though. And if the Strategos would happen to die, the alliance army would be completely useless since no one would be there to take over.
The Alliance Army would be even more useless should Athens not appoint anybody for the position of Strategos, since in that case there will be no Polemarchos and therefore nobody to replace the Strategos.

[jirisys]

I AGREE.

If Doros is to go through that Spartan agoge, we'd better recruit ships and get him there ASAP. When i suggested that he'd go to Sparta in the end of his 19th year, I had no idea that he would be sent off to Krete.

And since Mytilene is likely to declare it's independence if Pella falls, I also PROPOSE that the next city we conquer is Pella, and not Mytilene.

Leumenes went back to the assembly, and a slave handed him the transcripts.

I DISAGREE with this proposal, as, it would leave us, not the makedonians, between two fronts, the Epirots and the Getae, which may change their alliegances when they want to ripe our lands, therefore; I PROPOSE we invade Lesbos with the athenian army and release our allied Basileo ton Pergamou from the Makedonian irritation.


Arthouros once again addressed the assembly, this time on the matter of who should be the Athenian candidate for the offices of Hegemon and Strategos respectively:

"Doros won a great victory at Kydonia, expanding the range of our Koinon to the people of Krete, and therefore I nominate him for the office of Strategos.

I also nominate Chremonides Aithalidos Attikos for the office of Hegemon."

~Arthouros

"I AGREE with your nomination (as if there was a choice, sadly)."

I also would like to PROPOSE that there be a Boule of the Prytaneis every year, alternating between Sparte and Athenai each year, so that we may both propose measures so we may cooperate (such as, say, asking the spartans to siege Thermon while we buy time and defeat the small armies of Epeiros (this is JUST AN EXAMPLE)).

Leumenes was eager to wonder who was going to be the next Ephor.

~Jirisys ()

[The_Blacksmith]

Kaleros steps calm into the Council, smelling since he came from the Gymnasia

"My friends! i hear words of the Makedonians marching towards the Byzanz! even though our efford they still have strong men in the field, the Epirotes had taken land from the Barbaroi north of Pella this creates a lock of the Makedonian and Epirote troops where the Makedonians cant be to offensive and at the same time are a buffer to the Epirotes, with the Thessalian hills fortified and under Koinon regin, I PROPOSE that we should let thiese imposer greeks east eachother up (motion: dont TAKE Pella) I AGREE with Arthouros motion of building a strong navy to escort the conquers of Krete home, and of the making of Kretan democratic Kleroucheia...

As for the offices of Koinon, i am not to interfere...

I PROPOSE that Damasos is to be the Govenor of Rhodes, we need to organize all the trade from our most of illustrious habour to profit from them

[Molinaargh]

You might want to focus on the elections, councilors, since there is no point in discussing whether Mytilene or Pella should be attacked if all you have is the Athenian Army, which is unable to successfully assault either of them (although it might be - this is only my opinion based on the number of troops).

I request that military proposals specify which army is the one doing the attacking, and I remind you that Athens is almost 100% guaranteed to lose control of the Alliance Army for the next 4 years.

[Paltmull]

The Alliance Army would be even more useless should Athens not appoint anybody for the position of Strategos, since in that case there will be no Polemarchos and therefore nobody to replace the Strategos.

Oh, crap. I suspect this mess is partly my fault. So much for creative solutions :sweatdrop:

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

OOC

As Damasos is under the command of the Sparte/TWC I don't think we can make proposals for what he should do.

[jirisys]

I PROPOSE we build walls as our primary building in Demetrias, so more makedonians die at our gates, and greeks stay safe inside.


Leumenes, busy with the affairs of life, now 26. He was a scholar administrator in the Akademia, a Somatophylakes of Chremonides, and almost a husband and father. He had little time in the Boule, yet, he knew his situation would change quickly. He stood up, with his breard hanging stadia from his chin.

"My men, we have won a very costly victory, the men lost were too numerous, we lost a fleet to pirates. Yet our trade increases. I am glad to see the koinon working together. I would like to PROPOSE we build a regional Tyrannos in Kretai, as their governor was one, and bringing democracy may cause unrest. Even more because we killed many of their citiziens. Let us leave them to the Tyrannos, as we would not be able to manage it because of it's distance, and a Tyrannos would stop piracy in the area due to it's power to legislate and dictate orders. A democracy on an island far from mainland would be useless, as they would act without support from the other polis. I AGREE with Arthouros Second proposal."

He sat down, having to leave the Boule, for a short time.

~Jirisys ()


Leumenes went back to the assembly, and a slave handed him the transcripts.

I DISAGREE with this proposal, as, it would leave us, not the makedonians, between two fronts, the Epirots and the Getae, which may change their alliegances when they want to ripe our lands, therefore; I PROPOSE we invade Lesbos with the athenian army and release our allied Basileo ton Pergamou from the Makedonian irritation.



"I AGREE with your nomination (as if there was a choice, sadly)."

I also would like to PROPOSE that there be a Boule of the Prytaneis every year, alternating between Sparte and Athenai each year, so that we may both propose measures so we may cooperate (such as, say, asking the spartans to siege Thermon while we buy time and defeat the small armies of Epeiros (this is JUST AN EXAMPLE)).

Leumenes was eager to wonder who was going to be the next Ephor.

~Jirisys ()

Leuemenes stood up, reminding the Boule not to forget his proposals. As it seems his are the only ones not being adressed. Which makes him irritated to have wasted his energy and thought for nothing.


Kaleros steps calm into the Council, smelling since he came from the Gymnasia

"My friends! i hear words of the Makedonians marching towards the Byzanz! even though our efford they still have strong men in the field, the Epirotes had taken land from the Barbaroi north of Pella this creates a lock of the Makedonian and Epirote troops where the Makedonians cant be to offensive and at the same time are a buffer to the Epirotes, with the Thessalian hills fortified and under Koinon regin, I PROPOSE that we should let thiese imposer greeks east eachother up (motion: dont TAKE Pella) I AGREE with Arthouros motion of building a strong navy to escort the conquers of Krete home, and of the making of Kretan democratic Kleroucheia...

As for the offices of Koinon, i am not to interfere...

I PROPOSE that Damasos is to be the Govenor of Rhodes, we need to organize all the trade from our most of illustrious habour to profit from them

I AGREE with your first proposal, as it's almost the same with mine, without the Lesbos invasion though. The second one is not up to us.


OOC

As Damasos is under the command of the Sparte/TWC I don't think we can make proposals for what he should do.

For that same reason my dear partisan.

Leumenes sat down, hoping they would not see his proposals for granted.

~Jirisys ()

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

Arthouros spoke briefly on the matters many councillors had forgotten, those brought forth by one of the most prominent members of the assembly, and urged the councillors to turn their attention to these matters:

"Leumenes, on the matter of building walls as our primary building upon liberating Thermon, I AGREE . Furthermore regarding the Boule of the Prytaneis every year that you proposed, alternating between Sparte and Athenai each year, discussing matters of cooperation, I also AGREE"

Arthouros turned his attention to another proposal by an other councillor he had neglected to address:

"Kaleros, I too hold the view that we should let the Makedones and Epiriotai struggle between each other, therefore I AGREE that we should NOT launch an assault at Pella"

Arthouros then remembered another matter of not quite the same importance.

He pulled out a parchment and read a short passage of it:

"Spartan Orders -Population of Pella to be expelled if conquered."

"Let it be said that when Pella is conquered, I PROPOSE we simply occupy the city. How can we win over the Makedonian people and convince them that we provide a better alternative than Antigonos when we treat them no better then their ruler have treated us? We should welcome them after our troops have been welcomed *cough, conquered them* as brothers, and it is my firm belief that this is not the best way to start off such a political relationship. Of course one could argue that we do not need to "win them over", but surely we honourable Hêllenes should prove our higher moral standards to those we vanquish, if we do not, then what separates us from simple Barbaroi?"

And with that Arthouros left the ekklesia, leaving for his humble house, and went to bed.

[Molinaargh]

Election results are in!


https://img828.imageshack.us/img828/7985/offices512post.jpg
It was expected for Areus to defeat Doros in the election for Strategos, but Akrotatos only had a small advantage over Chremonides and the position could have gone either way. Still, the Athenians will now hold the office of Polemarchos for the next 4 years. Polemarchos Doros may command an Athenian Army of 12 units.

https://img689.imageshack.us/img689/4952/atheniancouncil6.jpg
The party elections will remain open for now. No member of any party has declared their candidature, but they may still do so. If no members challenge the current party leader for an election, the current leader will remain in power.

With the results announced it will be easier for the Athenians to plan their next moves.

[jirisys]

Leumenes stood up, confident, even so the spartans won the elections, yet he knew they could work together. He stood up.

"I NOMINATE myself as Epistates. I will uphold the rights of every greek and will work for a complete and true Koinon with the members of the other poleis. So we may propser and defeat all our enemies, barbaroi or traitorous greeks."

Leumenes sat down, eager for the response of his proposalsa nd candidature.

~Jirisys ()

[The_Blacksmith]

Kaleros spoke "Leuemenes, im sorry i havent commented on your wise motions, now let me take a look"

Ohh Leuemenes NOW i AGREE with you, building solid stonewalls in DEMETRIAS!

I DISAGREE on the support of tyranny...

I DISAGREE on your motion of attacking Lesbos, the athenian army is too small

I AGREE on you motion to have more "updates"

Im sorry Leuemenes, i just dont see the logic in thiese motions... most of them... BUT, friend... i support your position as Epistates

[jirisys]

Leumenes spoke up:

"I am so sorry, I apologize, it seems I confused Demetrias and Thermon, I meant to say Demetrias. However I understand that the Athenian army is small. But we must relieve Pergamon before the Makedonians expand"

"I thank you for your words, I hope the KH assembly rules on the Prytaneos Boule soon."

Leumenes sat down. He still needed to work in the Akademia.

~Jirisys ()

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

Arthouros spoke:

"I support Leumenes both as party leader of Hellas and as Epistates, furthermore as his proposal was to build walls in Demetrias and not Thermon I AGREE on that matter."

Arthouros then went back to sleep.

[Molinaargh]

I nominate myself as Epistates.
The position of Epistates is currently decided through sorting a random Party Leader out of the 4 Party Leadres, not through voting. I agree it's not the best system, so if others back you on your candidature then you'll get the position (it wasn't uncommon for positions in Athens to be sorted randomly).

[Gaius Sempronius Gracchus]

"I will keep this short and to the point. I DISAGREE with the proposal that a democratic Kleroucheia be established in Kretai, for the reasons put forth by Leumenes. It follows, then, that I AGREE with Leumenes' proposal to put in place a Tyrannos there.

I do AGREE with Arthourus that a new fleet, preferably of trireme, be raised.

I vehemently DISAGREE with the proposal that we attack Pella. This war with Macedonia was not sought by us. Are we to transit from one bloody war of attrition to another without pause. Taking Pella will put us, almost inevitably, on a war footing with Epiros, as well as in line of sight of the barbarian Getai tribes. Let the Macedonians at Pella bear the brunt of that aggression, and we can pick up the pieces when we are ready. Our fortifications and garrisons in Thessaly are sufficient to hold the Macedons in check. Let us hold them there, as a sponge, to soak up the urge for war within the barbarian hearts of the Epirotes and the Getai.

I PROPOSE that we be prepared to take Mytilene and then Pergamon from the Macedonians when, and it is a matter of time, they take Pergamon. They will leave a weakened garrison in Mytilene, and their exertions in taking Pergamon will weaken their main force.

We have experience, with Demetrias and in Kretai, of how costly taking a garrisoned town can be. Let others pay that price, let us take the rewards.

Also, we need the income from the trade that Mytilene and Pergamon will bring us. And it will weaken the Macedonian position further. Hold them in Pella.

For the same reasons I believe we should, in whatever way we can, implore the Spartan council to desist from any hostile moves toward Thermon, for now."

[The_Blacksmith]

"How can we praise our selfs as being the light of civilization when we support tyrannos' in krete?!?!" Kaleros yelled across the council

"And taking Lesbos now? with a Makedonian army the size of the Allied and the Spartan army combined? you must be mad, risking everything; the controll of Thessaly, it will say allmost open! its the gateway to Attike, for what to gain? another front; with the Arche Seleukia?! i STRONGLY DISAGREE its a tactical failure!"

"you even wants to attack over sea... with pirates lurking everywhere?!" Kaleros was now almost red in his face, his passion for tactics and... the lives of his friends became.... very apparent...

[jirisys]

"How can we praise our selfs as being the light of civilization when we support tyrannos' in krete?!?!" Kaleros yelled across the council

"And taking Lesbos now? with a Makedonian army the size of the Allied and the Spartan army combined? you must be mad, risking everything; the controll of Thessaly, it will say allmost open! its the gateway to Attike, for what to gain? another front; with the Arche Seleukia?! i STRONGLY DISAGREE its a tactical failure!"

"you even wants to attack over sea... with pirates lurking everywhere?!" Kaleros was now almost red in his face, his passion for tactics and... the lives of his friends became.... very apparent...

Leumenes, shocked at his reprehensal, stood up calmly.

"Us, my dear friend, we must not let our own ideals affect those of Kretai people, if they had a Tyrannos, and, however unsopportive with the Koinon, he gathered many hundreds of men. We have to give the polis their own choice, not to affect them by ours, too much have we done by conquering them, forcing them to support us, at least we should make them have what they so wish, a Tyrannos was supported in Kretai, I believe there would be some unrest with a new type of government when they didn't care for it. Yes, we must be happy when a polis accepts democracy as their government, yet, we must also rejoice, that the polis is given what their people ask, even if that's a Tyrannos or an Allied basileos.

On the note of taking Lesbos. I admit it would be risky, yet we should ask the spartans to support us with the Allied army, so we may flank the island from both sides. Of course we must risk something, but we must be certain that we can win, lifes will be lost, more than enough. However we cannot let the Makedonians control an island in our seas, imagine the pirate raids, the blockades and the invasions to cities, besides, the Kingdom of Pergamon is an old ally, we must not let it fall to Makedonian sword, I do not believe the Arche Seleukeia to attack an island so far from the coast. We must press the makedonians, we must deplete them; if possible, defeat them in-detail: First the army outside when it's besieging the city and then we besiege the city. Many tactics may work, but we need support and men.

Of course a pirate sweep must be taken into measure, building a fleet of powerful navies would grant us supremacy over their silly boats, also, they are a threat to our trade, what Rhodos basically lives upon, sea trade. We must not let them down because of fear, we must attack, yes, but we must think of clever ways to do so. We will not act reckless, do not worry."

Leumenes sat down.

~Jirisys ()

[Molinaargh]

It should be possible to quickly cross from Chalkis to Lesbos, avoiding pirate ships.

The Alliance Army under the Spartans seems to have other plans, going for Pella instead of Lesbos, and are unlikely to recieve orders ("suggestions") from the Athenian council.

The Athenian Army would likely be alone in such endeavor.

It should also be noted that either Chremonides or Doros may command the Athenian army in such an attack. Chremonides's army would have 8 units, while Doros's would have 12, but Chremonides is a more experienced commander. The Athenian Council must decide which man will lead.

[jirisys]

It should be possible to quickly cross from Chalkis to Lesbos, avoiding pirate ships.

The Alliance Army under the Spartans seems to have other plans, going for Pella instead of Lesbos, and are unlikely to recieve orders ("suggestions") from the Athenian council.

The Athenian Army would likely be alone in such endeavor.

It should also be noted that either Chremonides or Doros may command the Athenian army in such an attack. Chremonides's army would have 8 units, while Doros's would have 12, but Chremonides is a more experienced commander. The Athenian Council must decide which man will lead.

That's why we should have a Boule for both factions' Prytaneis... Don't you think?

Why not both? So we have a fullstack on the attack without breaking the rules?

~Jirisys ()

[Molinaargh]

That's why we should have a Boule for both factions' Prytaneis... Don't you think?

Why not both? So we have a fullstack on the attack without breaking the rules?

~Jirisys ()
No.

It is strictly against the rules for the Athenian Council to give orders to the Alliance Army without holding the office of Strategos, or to give orders to the Spartan Army at any time. This is in the law.

I will go extremely OOC in this post. My posts are usually neutral in a limbo between IC and OOC.

It makes absolutely no sense in creating a council for the Party Leaders (Prytaneis are the Athenian Party Leaders, the Spartan ones are the Ephoroi) for a number of reasons:

1) Where would this be created? The TWC or the .org? I can't force people from a forum to register in another one and vice-versa. Not everybody is registered in both forums.

2) It is extremely ahistorical. The Koinon isn't a nation. Where is the Koinon? In which city would this Council be located? The citizens of a polis respond to their polis and to nothing else. It just makes no sense at all to have a "non-polis" council. We already have the Koinon Session which is when the councilors of Sparta and Athens may dialogue between each other.

3) It would defeat the entire purpose of this AAR, which is having two councils in conflict with each other. This division is one of the main reasons this AAR has been fun so far.

4) I see no point for only 7 players to decide what will be done in this AAR, instead of ALL players as it is now.

5) The Koinon matters are COMPLETELY COVERED with the current system. The polis that controls the office of Hegemon controls construction and recruitment with priority throughout all the cities, while the Strategos controls military through the Alliance Army. There is no need for another council. What would it decide? Tax levels? There's nothing else to be done that isn't covered in the current system.

6) If I wanted a huge super-stack of doom to blitz the stupid AI, I'd play single player and not write an AAR. You should try that if that's your thing.

Even if this was passed as law in a Koinon Session, which is when it should be proposed rather than in the middle of a Polis Session such as the one we are in right now, I'd 100% veto it with my powers of creator of this AAR, which are higher than the laws in the first post, because I believe such a thing would make this AAR less fun. There is no argument to be made in this matter.

And believe me, all my efforts here go into making this AAR fun for everyone, or at least for as many people as possible.

Sorry for the huge rant, guys. I've addressed this before and it apparently went unnoticed. This is my final word on the creation of a third and "exclusive for only a few people" council. I don't even know why I should have to write such a huge argument on this, this is as clear as day to me.

Why not both? So we have a fullstack on the attack without breaking the rules?
Chremonides's command would override Doros's because of the number of stars of the generals. You can't have Chremonides command 12 units, only 8. You won't have a full stack either way, only either 12 or 8 units.

[jirisys]

Just No was enough... You're the creator... I wouldn't have asked again... Thanks for your kindness anyways, I feel great now (sarcasm:clown:)

No, I meant, Let doros go with an army of 12 on one side of the island and Chremonides with 8 on another side :grin:

~Jirisys ()

[Molinaargh]

Just No was enough... You're the creator... I wouldn't have asked again... Thanks for your kindness anyways, I feel great now (sarcasm:clown:)

No, I meant, Let doros go with an army of 12 on one side of the island and Chremonides with 8 on another side :grin:

~Jirisys ()
Yeah, sorry, I thought I'd erase everything after the "No" but I had already written most of it, so it felt like a waste of effort. Sorry again.

It would in theory be possible to have Doros with 12 units and Chremonides with 8, but I don't think such an army can be raised. There just isn't enough money to pay for it all.

[jirisys]

Yeah, sorry, I thought I'd erase everything after the "No" but I had already written most of it, so it felt like a waste of effort. Sorry again.

It would in theory be possible to have Doros with 12 units and Chremonides with 8, but I don't think such an army can be raised. There just isn't enough money to pay for it all.

Yes... But you could have 12+ unit armies separately, maybe if it would be strong enough it would be possible, however I will propose tomorrow.

And I meant the Prytaneis Boule as a council so that... Imagine the Spartans want that we help them with the Athenian army in a siege, They'd have to come here and propose here, you know. I just wanted to have some kind of an easier bond, but it's ok... Don't worry.

~Jirisys ()

[Molinaargh]

Yes... But you could have 12+ armies separately, maybe if it would be strong enough it would be possible, however I will propose tomorrow.
Keep in mind an army outside a city must be commanded by a general (family member), they can't be commanded by a captain.

[jirisys]

Keep in mind an army outside a city must be commanded by a general (family member), they can't be commanded by a captain.

We have 2 generals...?

~Jirisys ()

[Molinaargh]

We have 2 generals...?

~Jirisys ()
Correct, Athens has 2 generals. Another one should be coming up soon, though.

[fireblade]

Glaucos speaks next. It was clear to everybody that the last years took their toll on him.

I AGREE with the fleet building proposal. Further I would PROPOSE we build up our economy, basic port facilities in Kydonia seem to be the first choice. As we are likely not to be able to attack without the alliance army, I propose that the Athenian army takes a defensive stand for now, and gets ready to aid the alliance army if the need arises.

Also, I decline to run for party leader once more, I'm sure Paltmull could do a great job should he choose to accept this position (ooc: due to real life, I won't be able to commit as much time to this aar as it deserves.)

[Walle]

I AGREE with Glaucos. Furthermore, I would go so far as to PROPOSE that we don't attack any cities for a few years, and hold a very defensive position, making Demetrias a strong outpost with relatively large garrisons in Demetrias and in both forts. I also AGREE with Glaucos on the offensive matter, the only offensive action we should take should be to reinfore the Alliance army, if necessary.

[Hotseat_User]

Guys, this is freakin' great. I'd like to take part but since my machine is broken, I'm only online from time to time. Maybe I can jump on the train, reading the stories a little later. Such a nice idea Molinaargh! :smash:

[The_Blacksmith]

"I AGREE with any motion of being defensive, since the Allied and Spartan army is likely going to Pella... we need the Athenian army if they are to pull of another incident like in Thessaly..."

"And i regret my outragerous and uncivilized manners in the Council"

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

"Allow me to PROPOSE that the Tyrannos PROPOSAL is to be withdrawn and the choice of government on Kydonia be either a Free Allied Kingdom, or a Demokratic Kleroucheia. I DISAGREE with the proposal to establish a Tyrranos-governement at Krete.

The Tyrannos in Demetrias was not that very popular now was he? His reign was contested by rebels within a matter of months; So how can we say that supporting a Tyrannos best represent the wishes of the people? For that reason I implore you to let it be decided between a Free Allied Kingdom or a Democratic Kleroucheia at Krete. Thank you"

Arthouros then briefly turned to the matter of future military endeavours:

"As we are not commanding the Koinon army, we cannot allow ourselves to be involved in the Lesbos - Pergamon conflict as of yet.
Furthermore I PROPOSE that the Athenian forces be retrained to the full extent possible in Krete, and after returning from Krete, stays in Attike, possibly retraining the Ekdromoi Hoplitai in Athenai. We might and should of course support the Alliance army, but as of now I find the Spartatai proposals to be rather rash and on the brink of foolish, - no insult intended. To attack either Thermon or Pella now would be a waste of Hêllenic life, as we would then possibly be ripe for the picking by the Eperioitai Basileus, and because of that, I as before believe we should restrain ourselves for the time being in regards of military matters, focus on economic matters instead. In other words I AGREE to the proposals brought forth by Glaucos."


And with that Arthouros was seated.

[Paltmull]

Also, I decline to run for party leader once more, I'm sure Paltmull could do a great job should he choose to accept this position (ooc: due to real life, I won't be able to commit as much time to this aar as it deserves.)

I'm honored by your recommendation, but I am afraid that I too lack the time needed as I, due to an upcoming philosophy exam (yeah, IRL too ^___^), have quite a lot of studies to attend to at the moment . We will just have to hope that someone else steps up.

I AGREE with the proposals to focus more on our economy than our military. Having lost the Strategos office, we will not be able to do much anyway. However, we should keep a close eye at the events in Asia Minor. I PROPOSE that, if the Macedonian garrison at Lesbos would (for example through wars with Pergamon) be weakened enough that we could capture it with little effort, we should take the opportunity and strike immideately. Otherwise, we should let it be for now.

[Drag0nUL]

You can remove me of the party list (if you want). Simply put this AAR is amazing, but it moves too fast for my current free time. The enthusiasm is so big that everytime I get to this thread there's always at least a couple of pages to read through before I could post, and that's a bit too much for my free time atm. Would try to contribute from time to time (when I can), but it won't be nearly as regular as other ppl in this thread. You can remove me of the party list if you want.

[Molinaargh]

You can remove me of the party list (if you want). Simply put this AAR is amazing, but it moves too fast for my current free time. The enthusiasm is so big that everytime I get to this thread there's always at least a couple of pages to read through before I could post, and that's a bit too much for my free time atm. Would try to contribute from time to time (when I can), but it won't be nearly as regular as other ppl in this thread. You can remove me of the party list if you want.
But I don't want to remove you! :embarassed:

There's a lot of you getting busy as this year kicks off, I see. But I hope you can still keep posting every now and then, and good luck guys!

[Drag0nUL]

But I don't want to remove you! :embarassed:

Thank you:)


There's a lot of you getting busy as this year kicks off, I see. But I hope you can still keep posting every now and then, and good luck guys!

I like this AAR a lot, so I'll keep following it and post when I can.

[jirisys]

I PROPOSE we build walls as our primary building in Demetrias, so more makedonians die at our gates, and greeks stay safe inside.


Leumenes, busy with the affairs of life, now 26. He was a scholar administrator in the Akademia, a Somatophylakes of Chremonides, and almost a husband and father. He had little time in the Boule, yet, he knew his situation would change quickly. He stood up, with his breard hanging stadia from his chin.

"My men, we have won a very costly victory, the men lost were too numerous, we lost a fleet to pirates. Yet our trade increases. I am glad to see the koinon working together. I would like to PROPOSE we build a regional Tyrannos in Kretai, as their governor was one, and bringing democracy may cause unrest. Even more because we killed many of their citiziens. Let us leave them to the Tyrannos, as we would not be able to manage it because of it's distance, and a Tyrannos would stop piracy in the area due to it's power to legislate and dictate orders. A democracy on an island far from mainland would be useless, as they would act without support from the other polis. WITHDRAWN I AGREE with Arthouros Second proposal."

He sat down, having to leave the Boule, for a short time.

~Jirisys ()


Leumenes went back to the assembly, and a slave handed him the transcripts.


I AGREE.

If Doros is to go through that Spartan agoge, we'd better recruit ships and get him there ASAP. When i suggested that he'd go to Sparta in the end of his 19th year, I had no idea that he would be sent off to Krete.

And since Mytilene is likely to declare it's independence if Pella falls, I also PROPOSE that the next city we conquer is Pella, and not Mytilene.

I DISAGREE with this proposal, as, it would leave us, not the makedonians, between two fronts, the Epirots and the Getae, which may change their alliegances when they want to ripe our lands, therefore; I PROPOSE we invade Lesbos with the athenian army and release our allied Basileo ton Pergamou from the Makedonian irritation. WITHDRAWN

I also would like to PROPOSE that there be a Boule of the Prytaneis every year, alternating between Sparte and Athenai each year, so that we may both propose measures so we may cooperate (such as, say, asking the spartans to siege Thermon while we buy time and defeat the small armies of Epeiros (this is JUST AN EXAMPLE)).WITHDRAWN

Leumenes was eager to wonder who was going to be the next Ephor.

~Jirisys ()

Leuemenes stood up, reminding the Boule not to forget his proposals. As it seems his are the only ones not being adressed. Which makes him irritated to have wasted his energy and thought for nothing.


Kaleros steps calm into the Council, smelling since he came from the Gymnasia

"My friends! i hear words of the Makedonians marching towards the Byzanz! even though our efford they still have strong men in the field, the Epirotes had taken land from the Barbaroi north of Pella this creates a lock of the Makedonian and Epirote troops where the Makedonians cant be to offensive and at the same time are a buffer to the Epirotes, with the Thessalian hills fortified and under Koinon regin, I PROPOSE that we should let thiese imposer greeks east eachother up (motion: dont TAKE Pella) I AGREE with Arthouros motion of building a strong navy to escort the conquers of Krete home, and of the making of Kretan democratic Kleroucheia...

As for the offices of Koinon, i am not to interfere...

I PROPOSE that Damasos is to be the Govenor of Rhodes, we need to organize all the trade from our most of illustrious habour to profit from them

I AGREE with your first proposal, as it's almost the same with mine, without the Lesbos invasion though. The second one is not up to us.


OOC

As Damasos is under the command of the Sparte/TWC I don't think we can make proposals for what he should do.

For that same reason my dear partisan.

Leumenes sat down, hoping they would not see his proposals for granted.

~Jirisys ()


Arthouros spoke briefly on the matters many councillors had forgotten, those brought forth by one of the most prominent members of the assembly, and urged the councillors to turn their attention to these matters:

"Leumenes, on the matter of building walls as our primary building upon liberating Thermon, I AGREE . Furthermore regarding the Boule of the Prytaneis every year that you proposed, alternating between Sparte and Athenai each year, discussing matters of cooperation, I also AGREE"PROPOSAL WITHDRAWED

Arthouros turned his attention to another proposal by an other councillor he had neglected to address:

"Kaleros, I too hold the view that we should let the Makedones and Epiriotai struggle between each other, therefore I AGREE that we should NOT launch an assault at Pella"

Arthouros then remembered another matter of not quite the same importance.

He pulled out a parchment and read a short passage of it:

"Spartan Orders -Population of Pella to be expelled if conquered."

"Let it be said that when Pella is conquered, I PROPOSE we simply occupy the city. How can we win over the Makedonian people and convince them that we provide a better alternative than Antigonos when we treat them no better then their ruler have treated us? We should welcome them after our troops have been welcomed *cough, conquered them* as brothers, and it is my firm belief that this is not the best way to start off such a political relationship. Of course one could argue that we do not need to "win them over", but surely we honourable Hêllenes should prove our higher moral standards to those we vanquish, if we do not, then what separates us from simple Barbaroi?"

And with that Arthouros left the ekklesia, leaving for his humble house, and went to bed.

I AGREE with this proposal.


Kaleros spoke "Leuemenes, im sorry i havent commented on your wise motions, now let me take a look"

Ohh Leuemenes NOW i AGREE with you, building solid stonewalls in DEMETRIAS!

I DISAGREE on the support of tyranny... PROPOSAL WITHDRAWED

I DISAGREE on your motion of attacking Lesbos, the athenian army is too small[/S]PROPOSAL WITHDRAWED

I AGREE on you motion to have more "updates"[/S]PROPOSAL WITHDRAWED

Im sorry Leuemenes, i just dont see the logic in thiese motions... most of them... BUT, friend... i support your position as Epistates


Arthouros spoke:

"I support Leumenes both as party leader of Hellas and as Epistates, furthermore as his proposal was to build walls in Demetrias and not Thermon I AGREE on that matter."

Arthouros then went back to sleep.


"I will keep this short and to the point. I DISAGREE with the proposal that a democratic Kleroucheia be established in Kretai, for the reasons put forth by Leumenes. It follows, then, that I AGREE with Leumenes' proposal to put in place a Tyrannos there.PROPOSAL WITHDRAWED (Sorry Demosthenes:sorry::shame:)

I do AGREE with Arthourus that a new fleet, preferably of trireme, be raised.

I vehemently DISAGREE with the proposal that we attack Pella. This war with Macedonia was not sought by us. Are we to transit from one bloody war of attrition to another without pause. Taking Pella will put us, almost inevitably, on a war footing with Epiros, as well as in line of sight of the barbarian Getai tribes. Let the Macedonians at Pella bear the brunt of that aggression, and we can pick up the pieces when we are ready. Our fortifications and garrisons in Thessaly are sufficient to hold the Macedons in check. Let us hold them there, as a sponge, to soak up the urge for war within the barbarian hearts of the Epirotes and the Getai.

I PROPOSE that we be prepared to take Mytilene and then Pergamon from the Macedonians when, and it is a matter of time, they take Pergamon. They will leave a weakened garrison in Mytilene, and their exertions in taking Pergamon will weaken their main force.

We have experience, with Demetrias and in Kretai, of how costly taking a garrisoned town can be. Let others pay that price, let us take the rewards.

Also, we need the income from the trade that Mytilene and Pergamon will bring us. And it will weaken the Macedonian position further. Hold them in Pella.

For the same reasons I believe we should, in whatever way we can, implore the Spartan council to desist from any hostile moves toward Thermon, for now."

I AGREE with your two proposals partly, since I would not like to see Pergamon sacked by Makedonia. However I would surely think that we should be prepared to take both, if we couldn't arrive in time.


I AGREE with Glaucos. Furthermore, I would go so far as to PROPOSE that we don't attack any cities for a few years, and hold a very defensive position, making Demetrias a strong outpost with relatively large garrisons in Demetrias and in both forts. I also AGREE with Glaucos on the offensive matter, the only offensive action we should take should be to reinfore the Alliance army, if necessary.

I AGREE with your proposal.


"I AGREE with any motion of being defensive, since the Allied and Spartan army is likely going to Pella... we need the Athenian army if they are to pull of another incident like in Thessaly..."

"And i regret my outragerous and uncivilized manners in the Council"

Your outrageous and uncivilized manner paled in comparison to the love Molinaargh gave to me yesterday :laugh4:

Leumenes noticed that his wisdom was declining too much, everybody seemed not to support him.

~Jirisys (not role-playing :shame:)

[The_Blacksmith]

Kaleros rose fast as Leumenes sat down and took Leumenes by the arm "are you leaving my friend?" "better times will come, you know?"

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

Arthouros:

We make Krete a democratic Kleroucheia.

Status:AGREE Kaleros, DISAGREE Demosthenes


We raise a new fleet preferably a fleet of Trireme


Status: 4 AGREE (Leumenes, Paltmull, Glaucos, Demosthenes)


"Allow me to PROPOSE that the Tyrannos PROPOSAL is to be withdrawn and the choice of government on Kydonia be either a Free Allied Kingdom, or a Demokratic Kleroucheia.”

Result: Tyrannos PROPOSAL withdrawn by Leumenes.


“Let it be said that when Pella is conquered, I PROPOSE we simply occupy the city”


Status: AGREE Leumenes



Paltmull

The next city we conquer is Pella

Status: 4 DISAGREE (Demosthenes, Leumenes, Kaleros, Arthouros)


Glaucos

We focus on our economy

Status: 3 AGREE Kairos, Arthouros, Paltmull


”I propose that the Athenian army takes a defensive stand for now, and gets ready to aid the alliance army if the need arises.”/Athenian army to take defensive stance.

Status: 3 AGREE Kairos, Kaleros, Arthouros




Demosthenes


When the time is right, take Mytilene, possibly when the Makedones have taken Pergamon and have a weak garrison at Mytilene.


Status:AGREE (partially) Leumenes, Paltmull (ditt förslag var ungefär samma, tror jag, säg till ifall jag hade fel)


Implore the Spartatai to desist from any hostile moves toward Thermon for now

Status: (Partially) AGREE Leumenes,




Kairos

We do not attack any cities for a few years and make Demetrias a strong outpost, with large relatively large garrisons in Demetrias and in both forts.”

Status:AGREE Leumenes



Leumenes

Build stone walls in Demetrias


Status: AGREE Arthouros, Kaleros

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

Arthouros stood up and spoke:

"Yes indeed, do not doubt your wisdom Leumenes, your advice is highly respected."

Arthouros sat down hoping that his words would reassure his philos Leumenes of his political worth.

[Paltmull]

Status:AGREE (partially) Leumenes, Paltmull (ditt förslag var ungefär samma, tror jag, säg till ifall jag hade fel)


Jo, det var det. Hade missat att förslaget redan fanns. :bow:



Paltmull

The next city we conquer is Pella


Status: 5 DISAGREE (Demosthenes, Leumenes, Kaleros, Arthouros)

:brood:

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

https://i760.photobucket.com/albums/xx244/KingoftheBritons/649d1254790901-2009-nlds-rockies-phillies-facepalm.gif

Matte har nog aldrig varit min starka sida...


Uhm förresten, vad tycker du Kreta ska ha för styrelseskick (säg gärna Demokratisk Kleroucheia :bow:)?

~Arthur

[Molinaargh]

Oh thanks a lot Arthur!

There's some more time left in the session, but I guess not much will change by now.

If you guys can talk in english that would be great, I'm sure everyone wants to read what you're saying.

I've made some fan art for the AAR. I'm an aspiring concept artist so usually when I'm not working on this AAR, I'm drawing.

https://img148.imageshack.us/img148/6339/557gp.jpg

I wanted to draw the council but ended up drawing only a councilor. Inspired by The Death of Sokrates by Jacques-Louis David.

I'm gonna try doing some in greek art style next.

[Paltmull]

https://i760.photobucket.com/albums/xx244/KingoftheBritons/649d1254790901-2009-nlds-rockies-phillies-facepalm.gif

Matte har nog aldrig varit min starka sida...


Uhm förresten, vad tycker du Kreta ska ha för styrelseskick (säg gärna Demokratisk Kleroucheia :bow:)?

~Arthur

Oj, haha! Det var inte ens det jag menade. Var mer sur över att så många sa emot mig. :P Kreta förhåller jag mig neutral till. Kom inte och försök få förmåner bara för att vi är landsmän va! ;)

EDIT: Just saw Molinaarghs post. We'll speak English from now on :)

Oh, and that's a beautiful drawing!

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

Oh thanks a lot Arthur!

There's some more time left in the session, but I guess not much will change by now.

Glad I could be of assistance! :bow:


If you guys can talk in english that would be great, I'm sure everyone wants to read what you're saying.

Oh sorry, I sometimes get carried away, it just feels strange to communicate using one's second language with a countryman, no worries though we'll speak English from now on.

What we talked about (nothing overtly important really):

ditt förslag var ungefär samma, tror jag, säg till ifall jag hade fel = your proposal was about the same, I think, please correct me if I'm wrong

Jo, det var det. Hade missat att förslaget redan fanns. = Yeah, it was. Forgot that proposal already existed.

Matte har nog aldrig varit min starka sida... = Maths is not really my strong suit it seems...


Uhm förresten, vad tycker du Kreta ska ha för styrelseskick (säg gärna Demokratisk Kleroucheia) = Uhm, btw, what government do you think Krete should have (please say Demokratic Kleroucheia)?


I've made some fan art for the AAR. I'm an aspiring concept artist so usually when I'm not working on this AAR, I'm drawing.

https://img148.imageshack.us/img148/6339/557gp.jpg

I wanted to draw the council but ended up drawing only a councilor. Inspired by The Death of Sokrates by Jacques-Louis David.

I'm gonna try doing some in greek art style next.


Amazing artwork. :yes:


Edit: Oh and here: :balloon2: have a balloon for this wonderful AAR.

~Arthouros

[Molinaargh]

This session is over, expect an update soon.

[Enyalio]

Enyalio who followed to debates with interest, but was content he had the opportunity to aid his oice to the council before his clerks called away again to attend his affairs.

"My friends and fellow-councilors!

We have been amiss! Our vanity knows no boundaries. Our victories against the Macedonians are taken for granted. Where is our gratitude? Where is our devotion?
Has an offering been made to Pallas Athena, our goddes and protector? Have we presented our spoils in het temple?
A wise man cannot predict the Gods, but knows he must prepare to wheter their moods. Let us bring thanks and build up a temple to honor the gods and thank them for our victories. Ares and Athena above all.

I PROPOSE we build up a temple in Athenai or Chalkis.

I am rejoiced to see that my initial proposals to make Demetrias our outpost against Macedon were not in vain, I AGREE completely with the proposals of Kairos and Leumenes to build walls in Demetrias and make it stronger. Lest we want to become the usurpers the Macedonians have shown themselves to be, we must leave them to their own designs. Our goal, the goal of the Koinon Hellenon is not the rule uncivilised barbarians, but to unite our fellow Greeks, free them from opression and be a beacon of light.

Fellow councilors, are we not the center of the world? What barbarian nation has produced such excellent men well versed in rethoric, as shown so often in this council, in philosophy and mathematics. Who else than us Greeks and above all Athenians truly understand the nature of this world?

But our beacon of light does not shine everywhere in this world. From the pillars of Heracles to the mountains of the Hindu Kush our forefathers have travelled, founding great cities, build magnifecent temples,...and they let our coffers to be filled with exotic goods and gold.

I AGREE we must build up our economy. Apollo would look kindly and favourably at such an endeavour. But to do so, we must use all means we Greeks have. Let us re-establish our old trade relations with our daughter poleis. What happened dear friends with the great city of Syracuse? Or our brothers at Masalia and Emporion? Or Chersonesos and Pantikapaion?

For the future I PROPOSE our diplomats and spies must travel to these cities and see if our old relations can be restored.

Thank you and may the gods smil upon our decisions"

Enyalio stepped down and rushed of to his mansion.

[Molinaargh]

513 (263 BC)
The year when everything went as unexpected


Athenian orders:
-Fleet of Trireme to be rebuilt in order to rescue Doros from Kretai. (Yes)
-Focus on our economy. (Yes)
-Athenian Army to take a deffensive stance. (Yes)
-Take Mytilene if the Makedons take Pergamon and the island is weak.
-Reinforce Demetrias. (Yes)

Spartan orders:
-Areus's tribunes to be transferred to Akrotatos. (Couldn't be done)
-Army of the Koinon and Army of Sparta to attack Pella together. (Couldn't be done)
-Thermon is the next target after Pella. (Not yet)
-Pella and Thermon to be brought under Spartan influence. (Not yet)


A letter from Doros Aithalidos Attikos:


https://img84.imageshack.us/img84/7526/019no.jpg
This is the story of how I became the most important man in Hellas at the age of 19.

https://img593.imageshack.us/img593/8794/001tw.jpg
They wrote me saying the fleet would be rebuilt and would arrive in an a few months to take me back to Athenai. I didn't mind staying in Kydonia, Kretai is a beautiful island. I had been named Polemarchos in the last elections, a largely insignificant position in the Koinon. I was happy about it, but didn't think I deserved it. I didn't know then that even more was to come.

https://img842.imageshack.us/img842/9234/001abm.jpg
In Kydonia we were establishing a new and democratic government, much like the one in Athenai.

https://img233.imageshack.us/img233/9206/001boz.jpg
But then they wrote me again, shortly after. I thought it would have been a problem with the ships, a delay. But on the contrary, they were going to come even faster. The reason for this?


https://img141.imageshack.us/img141/9810/002bx.jpg
The Strategos of the Koinon, elected only last year, had died. Since I was the Polemarchos, law stated that I'd become the new Strategos for the remaining time. I couldn't believe it.

https://img218.imageshack.us/img218/5166/officesonly3.jpg

https://img811.imageshack.us/img811/6667/003vro.jpg
The Fleet of Athenai arrived only a few weeks after the announcement, and I was taken back with my -- the Athenian Army. My army now was the Alliance Army, a far more powerful force.

https://img534.imageshack.us/img534/5474/004pps.jpg


https://img151.imageshack.us/img151/5210/005mf.jpg
When I arrived in Athenai, the first thing I noticed, right at the docks, was the improvement of the mercantile ports. I was recieved with a great celebration, first for my victory in Kretai, second because I was now Strategos of the Koinon.

https://img39.imageshack.us/img39/8392/006kmc.jpg
In Athenai I met Eugenios Rhodios, who had come to to the Academy to study. Most irreverent man. Completely against any sort of war, but extremely smart otherwise. As for me, war was now my job.

https://img716.imageshack.us/img716/9260/007hwl.jpg
He said he'd become the governor of Rhodes, like his father, Agathokles, who was also an ally of Athenai.

https://img152.imageshack.us/img152/1724/008jg.jpg


https://img228.imageshack.us/img228/66/009cj.jpg
I also met Akrotatos, the Spartan and Hegemon of the Koinon. He said we could do great things if Sparte and Athenai work together, and I agree. Even though he was a Spartan - and with the death of his father he was a Spartan King - he had been responsible for many of the public buildings in the polis for the last few years.

https://img810.imageshack.us/img810/7611/010jw.jpg


https://img577.imageshack.us/img577/6954/012px.jpg
He gave me the reports on the situation in the borders. The Epeirote continued to advance in the north of Pella, and in Anatolia...

https://img840.imageshack.us/img840/1134/011cd.jpg
...the Makedons desperately tried to conquer Pergamon, time after time again.

https://img204.imageshack.us/img204/1489/015jhd.jpg
And time after time they failed. The knowledge we had now was that they had lost most of their army in their last attempt of taking the polis.

https://img824.imageshack.us/img824/6723/013dj.jpg
Just to the north, in Demetrias, the walls were being improved. He said this would've been a useless endeavor if Areus hadn't died, since the plans of his Spartan advisors were to march and take the Makedon capital. Because of his death, these walls proved to be very useful, even though the Makedons haven't attacked in years. That is because the Alliance Army was currently garrisoned in Demetrias waiting for my arrival, and couldn't campaign before I was present. It was the law, he said.

https://img602.imageshack.us/img602/428/014ge.jpg
He told me the Spartans were also building a port to themselves in order to have money to field a stronger Spartan Army. They would need one, since they had lost control of the Alliance Army, which was now under the command of Athens through me.

https://img651.imageshack.us/img651/1610/016tks.jpg
Our financial situation was good, with plenty of gold in our coffers to spend as wisely as possible.

https://img121.imageshack.us/img121/7496/017oak.jpg
I left Athenai to meet with the Alliance Army still in the winter, as such had to happen as quickly as possible. I am now the most important of all hellenes. All eyes are on my failures or successes, and the independence of the hellenic poleis now depends on my military abilities. To be honest, I don't think this will go well.

https://img233.imageshack.us/img233/8197/018cg.jpg

https://img256.imageshack.us/img256/3039/athens.png
The Athenian Council session is now open to discuss what must be done next year. Enyalio's proposals should be considered in said session.

[Rahl]

This AAR is very interesting and I read most of the posts and decided to join. Though english isn't my main language but I hope it will be good enough.
If one of you guys would be so nice and give me a greek version of my forum name for the AAR? That would be great.

But for now let me indroduce me with the name like it is:
"Rahl was still a young man but experienced and since 3 months also one of the powerful men of Athenai. He was the son of a trader but joined the army of the Koinon short time after the Alliance was created. He had fought alongside Chremonides, Areus and Doros and rose to a high position in the Athenian army because of his great tactical and strategic talents, though he lacked the leading abilities to become the leader of an army himself.
With the 2nd election of the Spartan Areus as Strategos, Rahl knew that he had no chances to rise to a higher position in the army. The Spartans would never except an Athenian as strategical adviser in the Alliance army, at least not a young and unkown one.
Then, 3 months ago the messenge of the death of his father reached him. Since he had no brother he was the only one who could took over the business of his father. He decided to leave the army and go back to Athenai.
With the business of his father he also took over his place in the Boule.
He had seen a lot of poleis in his time as soldier. He had seen war and it's cruelty, like the slaughtering of the population of Demetrias. He knew the extreme ways were not his. He believed in the necessity of the Koinon Hellenon but he knew the great spartan influence in the Alliance could turn out bad for Athenai.
He joined the party of the Moderates since balance was the only thing that would bring security to his people in the long run."

EDIT (read the news after I made my first post):
"Rahl had come back from Krete to Athenai short after the conquest of Kydonia. Like the other members he was surprised of the news. The last general he served had become Strategos of the Koinon. That was destiny.
Rahl really wanted to join the Army again, march with the intelligent leader he had happily served once. But it was too late, he had other commitments. Though in his new position he could still help Doros a lot.

I PROPOSE that we attack Mytilene now with the Alliance army
and I PROPOSE that we establish a democratic Klerouchoi there.
I PROPOSE that we use the athenian army for the defence against Macedonia.
After we captured Lesbos I PROPOSE that we force Macedonia into a peace treaty and to pay tribute to us. They must fear our superior forces but Macedonia is still a strong nation and they have a lot men that can serve in the army and it's unrealistic to believe that we can control them now. (you should use Force Diplomacy this time)
I PROPOSE that we forbid any action against Aitolia. They are our allies.
To make up for this I PROPOSE that the Sparta can appoint a new Polemarchos and use our fleet if they want to attack another enemy. They're warriors and we should not forbid them to fight.

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

Arthouros spoke:

"Fellow members of the assembly, philoi, Athenoi and Hellênes. This turn of events is both unfortunate and fortunate; unfortune as we have lost our philos Areus, and fortunate as it allows us to dictate the military actions of the Koinon the next four years.

As the Makedonike forces at Lesbos are now severely weakened, I PROPOSE that we at once launch an assault at Mytilene with the alliance army and reinforce it with troops from our Athenian army and ask of the Spartatai to do the same. If we move quickly enough, we be able to have the Alliance army back at Demetrias before the Makedones have breached through both the fortifications and the city walls of Demetrias. And even if they actually would attack us then they would need to use their whole army to achieve victory, and doing so would leave them vulnerable for Eperiotai or Getai military strikes at Pella. Thus I believe that the Makedones will not move their army away from Pella, and that this proposed strike carries little risk of failure. Also I PROPOSE that our Spy stationed outside Pergamon to try and infiltrate Mytilene, could save us even more time, if he mange to open the gate."

Arthouros was seated, and hoped that the rest of the assembly would not let this opportunity pass, even though it carried a small risk.

[jirisys]

Arthouros spoke:

"Fellow members of the assembly, philoi, Athenoi and Hellênes. This turn of events is both unfortunate and fortunate; unfortune as we have lost our philos Areus, and fortunate as it allows us to dictate the military actions of the Koinon the next four years.

As the Makedonike forces at Lesbos are now severely weakened, I PROPOSE that we at once launch an assault at Mytilene with the alliance army and reinforce it with troops from our Athenian army and ask of the Spartatai to do the same. If we move quickly enough, we be able to have the Alliance army back at Demetrias before the Makedones have breached through both the fortifications and the city walls of Demetrias. And even if they actually would attack us then they would need to use their whole army to achieve victory, and doing so would leave them vulnerable for Eperiotai or Getai military strikes at Pella. Thus I believe that the Makedones will not move their army away from Pella, and that this proposed strike carries little risk of failure. Also I PROPOSE that our Spy stationed outside Pergamon to try and infiltrate Mytilene, could save us even more time, if he mange to open the gate."

Arthouros was seated, and hoped that the rest of the assembly would not let this opportunity pass, even though it carried a small risk.

Arthouros rose again after some time and added:

"Upon the liberation I PROPOSE we establish a Free Allied Kingdom * and that we make sure that the settlement remains neutral in inter-Koine politics, as the Spartatai may become worried that we seize to much influence within the Koinon."

*Type IV Government

Leuemenes arose, now with more free time, and a Fiancee, at age 27, he saw prosperity in the Koinon, and he also was a Scholarchos of the Platonean Akademia of Skepticismos, truly, these were times for rejoicing.

"My fellow men, I have seen the farmers bring forth many great gift to their levied brothers, and they too gave them their support in their farm, the makedonian sailors once from Demetrias, now mooring their trade ships with the help of spartan Helots, the once great warriors that stood in Korinthos, now farmers in Athenai, while they may not like their slavery, they are brought upon many a joy with the fruits that they are given after those great harvests, which they share to the levied men. I am saddened to hear that Areus died, for he was a brave man, and a devilish butcher in battles. I see those levies wanting to return home, to their loved ones, yet, for Pergamon to receive help, we need to ask them one last fight, before professional armies be recruited. I AGREE with both of Enyalio's proposal. Also I too AGREE with Athourus second proposal but, PARTIALLY AGREE with his first one, If we would like more neutrality in alliegances, we must ask the spartans to help the allied army, I agree with that; however I'd PROPOSE garrisoning the Athenian army inside the walls of Demetrias, so they buy more time for the siege, as they could relieve it easily if the makedonians are to recklessly attack it, giving the Allied and Spartan army more time for the siege and the travel. Let us not forget of Sinope, as we promised them long ago their freedom; we should not let them dissapointed.

I also PROPOSE we keep upgrading our infrastructure in all of the cities in our control. And I also PROPOSE we must not levy more men, we need a professional army, and in the future, we grant the levied men freedom, and if they so wish, they can join the army as a full-time soldier."

"Thank you, and I hope Areus is the Elysean Fields, like all brave heroes."

Leumenes sat down, happy to see the Koinon working together.

~Jirisys ()

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

IC

"I AGREE to your proposals Leumenes"

OOC

You mean that we should let a portion of the Allied army stay, right? And mostly backed up by the Spartatai army and that the Athenians army is to chiefly support the Allied Army attack on Mytilene?

~Arthur (too tired to roleplay)

[jirisys]

IC

"I AGREE to your proposals Leumenes"

OOC

You mean that we should let a portion of the Allied army stay, right? And mostly backed up by the Spartatai army and that the Athenians army is to chiefly support the Allied Army attack on Mytilene?

~Arthur (too tired to roleplay)

:daisy: I got confused... I meant the Athenian army

~Jirisys ()

[Populus Romanus]

KILL JIRISYS!!! HE ADMITTED TO ASSASSISNATING AREUS!!!! IN THE SPARTAN COUNCIL!!! HE POISONED HIM WITH A PIECE OF PARCHMENT!!! KIIIL HIIIM!!!

[jirisys]

KILL JIRISYS!!! HE ADMITTED TO ASSASSISNATING AREUS!!!! IN THE SPARTAN COUNCIL!!! HE POISONED HIM WITH A PIECE OF PARCHMENT!!! KIIIL HIIIM!!!

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Read the introduction please :grin:

~Jirisys (I'm still in the Athenian Boule)

[Molinaargh]

Small update to the Athenian parties:


https://img717.imageshack.us/img717/8219/atheniancouncil7.jpg

Demosthenes has been randomly picked as the new Epistates according to Athenian written law.

[Enyalio]

Leuemenes arose, now with more free time, and a Fiancee, at age 27, he saw prosperity in the Koinon, and he also was a Scholarchos of the Platonean Akademia of Skepticismos, truly, these were times for rejoicing.

"My fellow men, I have seen the farmers bring forth many great gift to their levied brothers, and they too gave them their support in their farm, the makedonian sailors once from Demetrias, now mooring their trade ships with the help of spartan Helots, the once great warriors that stood in Korinthos, now farmers in Athenai, while they may not like their slavery, they are brought upon many a joy with the fruits that they are given after those great harvests, which they share to the levied men. I am saddened to hear that Areus died, for he was a brave man, and a devilish butcher in battles. I see those levies wanting to return home, to their loved ones, yet, for Pergamon to receive help, we need to ask them one last fight, before professional armies be recruited. I AGREE with both of Enyalio's proposal. Also I too AGREE with Athourus second proposal but, PARTIALLY AGREE with his first one, If we would like more neutrality in alliegances, we must ask the spartans to help the allied army, I agree with that; however I'd PROPOSE garrisoning the Athenian army inside the walls of Demetrias, so they buy more time for the siege, as they could relieve it easily if the makedonians are to recklessly attack it, giving the Allied and Spartan army more time for the siege and the travel. Let us not forget of Sinope, as we promised them long ago their freedom; we should not let them dissapointed.

I also PROPOSE we keep upgrading our infrastructure in all of the cities in our control. And I also PROPOSE we must not levy more men, we need a professional army, and in the future, we grant the levied men freedom, and if they so wish, they can join the army as a full-time soldier."

"Thank you, and I hope Areus is the Elysean Fields, like all brave heroes."

Leumenes sat down, happy to see the Koinon working together.

~Jirisys ()

"I thank you Leumenes for your support. I see that you are truly a godly man.

We must be deeply saddened by the loss of our ally Areus. Whatever his shortcomings, he for the good of the Koinon. Therefore I PROPOSE our ambassador sends the Spartan council an offical Eulogy to Areus so his loss further strenghtens our bond.

I AGREE with the proposals of Leumenens to build up our infrastructure and a professional force, letting our levied men return to their homes. Of course this tranistion must be done with caution.

I also AGREE with the proposals to atach Lesbos with the alliance army with the aid of Sparta and garrison Demetrias with the Athenian army. Now is the time. Believing this will open a new front is speculation. A swift strike can bring down Macedonian influence an establish us at the coastline of Asia without disturbing the balance of power in the region.."

Enyalio stepped down and took his seat, musing wich party most closly responded to his ideals.

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

Arthouros stood up and smiled, and began with addressed the newest addition to the assembly:

"I AGREE with all three of your recent proposals Enyalio. It would seem you are already becoming an upstanding member of the ekklesia. Furthermore allow me to congratulate Demosthenes on becoming Epistates. It is my firm belief that he will prove fit for such a high position amongst our people.

When we have liberated Mytilene, we will not be under immediate threat of hostilities by the major powers of Asia, as Pergamon will act as a buffer of sorts. However it is probably wise to plan ahead so to speak. It is my belief that it is more beneficial for the Hellenic free peoples that the status quo between the Arche Seleukeia and Ptolemaoi is to be maintained, but it is only a matter of time until one of them gains the upper hand, and may turn upon us when their respective "big bad rival" is gone.

Therefore I PROPOSE that we inquire map information - and/or send spies to their lands - from the Arche Seleukeia, and our Ptolemaio allies, so that we can see how their ongoing war progresses, so that we can plan our actions accordingly."

He added:" I also AGREE with Leumenes proposals regarding standardising the army."

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

Arthouros added:

"Some in the Spartatai assembly are proposing that Pergamon is to be conquered after our liberation of Mytilene. Also it appears to be some sort of desire amongst some of them to bind Pergamon and/or Mytilene closer to them, by attacking using the Spartan armies. Am I correct in the notion that we Athenioi control all of the Koinon fleet at this time? In any event I PROPOSE that we block any attempts on their behalf to deploy the Spartatai army in Mikra Asia independently and that all Koinon forces that are going to be deployed to Mikra Asia, (Spartatai reinforcement included) are to be placed directly under Alliance command. Mytilene is to stay neutral in inter-Koinon politics and Pergamon shall not be forced into the Koinon"

[Enyalio]

"Indeed Arthouros, you speak justly and wisely, I AGREE. If any bond to the greek Poleis in Asia can be affirmed, it is the bond to Athenai and not to Sparta. It were our forefathers who have founded these cities.
However, we must admit our bonds have been neglected for too long impose ourselves upon them or to believe they will join us full-heartedly. We must face these truths and also make clear that this is to be respected by Sparta. Their poleis must join the alliance under the banners of the union of Hellas, not under Spartan military control..."

Enyalio walked down to Arthouros to thank him for his kind words and to exchange their ideas about the future of the Asian expedition.

[fireblade]

I SUPPORT Arthouros' proposal, no spartan foothold in Asia Minor.

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

I PROPOSE that we attack Mytilene now with the Alliance army
and I PROPOSE that we establish a democratic Klerouchoi there.
I PROPOSE that we use the athenian army for the defence against Macedonia.

Arthouros rose and spoke:

"Yes I PARTIALLY AGREE that we establish a democratic Kleroucheia in Mytilene , on the condition that the city is to remain neutral in inter-Koinon politics. I am pleased to see that you agree with my proposal to attack Mytilene. Your proposal to use the Athenian army for the defence of Demetrias is the same as Leumenes proposal, and I AGREE, it is a wise proposal."

OOC (out of character)


After we captured Lesbos I PROPOSE that we force Macedonia into a peace treaty and to pay tribute to us. They must fear our superior forces but Macedonia is still a strong nation and they have a lot men that can serve in the army and it's unrealistic to believe that we can control them now. (you should use Force Diplomacy this time)

I'm not sure if Molinaargh have the force-diplomacy mod/ I can't really agree with this proposal, but I do not disagree with it either



To make up for this I PROPOSE that the Sparta can appoint a new Polemarchos and use our fleet if they want to attack another enemy. They're warriors and we should not forbid them to fight.

Not possible, the Polemarchos is elected during the Koinon elections, and not in between them.
And I DISAGREE that we should allow the Spartatai to use our fleet to attack another enemy at this time, as we have more important issues of military nature at hand.

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

Arthouros added:

"Also, upon the liberation of Mytilene I PROPOSE that its population is neither enslaved nor expelled. The reason to why I propose this is quite simple; the last time the Alliance Army seized a polis we Athenoi had not decided upon a stance regarding how the populace would be treated, and as such the Spartan motion to enslave Demetrias population was carried out. That is something I would like to avoid in the future."

Arthouros was seated again.


~Arthouros

[Molinaargh]

So far we have:

Athenian orders:
-Attack Mytilene with the Alliance Army.
-Request the Spartan Army to aid in such task.
-Demetrias to be reinforced with the Athenian Army.
-Infrastructure investments to continue.
-No more men in Athenai's sphere of influence to be recruited (Athenai has no power outside of it, as it doesn't control the Hegemon).
-Temple to be built in Athenai or Chalkis.
-Contact to be made with other Hellenic cities: Syracuse, Masalia, Emporion, Chersonesos and Pantikapaion.
-Athenian Fleet should only be used by the Spartan Army if they become commanded by the Alliance.


I must say that I do not understand how you Athenians expect the Spartan Army to aid you in the advance through Asia if nothing is given in return, and, in fact, the Spartans only lose by not being able to control their own army.

The Spartans would never take such a deal, and the Alliance will just lose the possible reinforcements by making these outrageous demands.

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

Okay how about this then:

Arthouros spoke:

"It is probably best if we give the Spartatai something in return... After the liberation of Mytilene and after the Alliance army have returned to Hellas proper, I PROPOSE the following:

* That the Spartan reinforcements to the Allied army be returned to a Spartatai general of their choosing.

* That the Alliance army aid the Spartatai in taking Thermon

* Let the Spartatai decide upon the system of governance there.

This is of course only if they agree to the proposal to aid the Allied army in Mikra Asia."

Molinaargh could you leave the session open until some other people have voiced their opinions on these new proposals? Thanks in advance. :bow:

[Paltmull]

Therefore I PROPOSE that we inquire map information - and/or send spies to their lands - from the Arche Seleukeia, and our Ptolemaio allies, so that we can see how their ongoing war progresses, so that we can plan our actions accordingly."




I PROPOSE that we attack Mytilene now with the Alliance army
and I PROPOSE that we establish a democratic Klerouchoi there.
I PROPOSE that we use the athenian army for the defence against Macedonia.

I PROPOSE that we forbid any action against Aitolia. They are our allies.


AGREED to all.



To make up for this I PROPOSE that the Sparta can appoint a new Polemarchos and use our fleet if they want to attack another enemy. They're warriors and we should not forbid them to fight.

I DISAGREE



"Also, upon the liberation of Mytilene I PROPOSE that its population is neither enslaved nor expelled.


I AGREE. Allowing the Spartan council to convince OUR Strategos to enslave Demetrias whas a mistake.




I PROPOSE that we block any attempts on their behalf to deploy the Spartatai army in Mikra Asia independently and that all Koinon forces that are going to be deployed to Mikra Asia, (Spartatai reinforcement included) are to be placed directly under Alliance command. Mytilene is to stay neutral in inter-Koinon politics and Pergamon shall not be forced into the Koinon"

I DISAGREE. Sparta will never accept this. Instead, I PROPOSE that one unit from the Athenian army and one or two units from the Spartan army joins the alliance army, and that the rest of both the Athenian and the Spartan armies remain in Greece to defend against Macedon. WITHDRAWN

EDIT:

"It is probably best if we give the Spartatai something in return... After the liberation of Mytilene and after the Alliance army have returned to Hellas proper, I PROPOSE the following:

* That the Spartan reinforcements to the Allied army be returned to a Spartatai general of their choosing.

* That the Alliance army aid the Spartatai in taking Thermon

* Let the Spartatai decide upon the system of governance there.


I AGREE and WITHDRAW my proposal.

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

I DISAGREE. Sparta will never accept this. Instead, I PROPOSE that one unit from the Athenian army and one or two units from the Spartan army joins the alliance army, and that the rest of both the Athenian and the Spartan armies remain in Greece to defend against Macedon.

I never really said that I wanted the entire Spartan army/or any overtly large portion of it to support the Alliance army. What I meant by that was, that if they wish to send a substantial Spartatai force then it should be placed under the Alliance command, as I advocate that Mytilene is to stay neutral. Therefore I guess I technically AGREE that only small portions of the Athenai and Spartatai armies are to support the Alliance army.

tl:dr Mytilene to stay neutral = Arthur happy.

[Paltmull]

Missed that. I AGREE that Mytilene should stay neutral.

Well, neutral in Koinon affairs. But they will of course be grateful to Athens for removing the Macedonian influence.

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

Good, hope Molinaargh notes this and updates his post at TWC regarding this, as I suspect some Spartatai may misunderstand its current incarnation.

edit: And I've been reading the thread for this AAR at TWC, where the (some, read the "Spartan National Party") Spartatai have suggested taking Mytilene with their own army, then move on to Pergamon, and then continue to Nikaia and bringing quite a lot of Hellenic poleis in Mikra Asia under Spartan influence. Sorry I should've spelled that out more clearly.

edit 2: Here we go:


(1)I PROPOSE the Aigion Domination Contingengcy. It really is a quite simple, long term plan to dominate the Aigion. Basically what we do is this. Phase I: two thrusts, from Hellas to Mytilene and from Rhodos to Halikarnassos. Phase II: two thrusts, from Lesbos to Pergamon (who are severely weakened from their desperate attempts to repel the Makedonians from Lesbos) and from Karia to Sardis.
(2)I PROPOSE the Mikra Asia Contingency. This is an even more long term plan. After the Aigion Domination Contingency has been successfully executed, the Mikra Asia Contingency shall be initiated. Phase I: two thrusts, Mysia to Nikaia and Lydia to Ipsos. Phase II: one thrust, from Bithynia and Phyrgia to Ankyra. Phase III: one thrust, from Galatia to Mazaka. When the Mikra Asia Contingency is successfully executed, all Seleukid presence in Mikra Asia will have been eradicated, and I will have been avenged.

Atm it seems to be voted against; 2 votes against, 1 vote for.

[Paltmull]

That would be completely unacceptable. The point of this alliance is to defend against threats such as Makedonia and Epeiros, not to create a Spartan empire. If Sparta in the future attempts to use the alliance army to conquer independent cities in Asia Minor, for no other advantage than their own, I see no other choice than to end this alliance. No Athenian soldiers or ships must participate in such a thing.

Since Mytilene is to stay neutral, I PROPOSE that no Spartan or Athenian generals and no larger quantity of Spartan or Athenian soldiers remain in Asia Minor after the conquest of Mytilene. The garrison should be levied there.

[jirisys]

I PROPOSE that we attack Mytilene now with the Alliance army
and I PROPOSE that we establish a democratic Klerouchoi there.
I PROPOSE that we use the athenian army for the defence against Macedonia.
After we captured Lesbos I PROPOSE that we force Macedonia into a peace treaty and to pay tribute to us. They must fear our superior forces but Macedonia is still a strong nation and they have a lot men that can serve in the army and it's unrealistic to believe that we can control them now. (you should use Force Diplomacy this time)
I PROPOSE that we forbid any action against Aitolia. They are our allies.
To make up for this I PROPOSE that the Sparta can appoint a new Polemarchos and use our fleet if they want to attack another enemy. They're warriors and we should not forbid them to fight.

I: I AGREE with your proposal

II: I DISAGREE with your proposal, as an Tyranneia or Allied Kingdom would be more suitable for remote colonies. Therefore, I PROPOSE an Allied Basileion to be instituted in Lesbos.

III: I Already proposed that before you edited it, so... I'll have to AGREE

IV: I PARTIALLY AGREE as long as he has FD installed.

V: I PARTIALLY DISAGREE we must be ready if the epirots want to desecrate Delphoi, we should be ready to defend them.

VI: It's NOT POSSIBLE until the next KH elections


"I thank you Leumenes for your support. I see that you are truly a godly man.

We must be deeply saddened by the loss of our ally Areus. Whatever his shortcomings, he for the good of the Koinon. Therefore I PROPOSE our ambassador sends the Spartan council an offical Eulogy to Areus so his loss further strenghtens our bond.

I AGREE with the proposals of Leumenens to build up our infrastructure and a professional force, letting our levied men return to their homes. Of course this tranistion must be done with caution.

I also AGREE with the proposals to atach Lesbos with the alliance army with the aid of Sparta and garrison Demetrias with the Athenian army. Now is the time. Believing this will open a new front is speculation. A swift strike can bring down Macedonian influence an establish us at the coastline of Asia without disturbing the balance of power in the region.."

Enyalio stepped down and took his seat, musing wich party most closly responded to his ideals.

I AGREE, in fact, I will go there personally and say it in the assembly myself


Arthouros stood up and smiled, and began with addressed the newest addition to the assembly:

"I AGREE with all three of your recent proposals Enyalio. It would seem you are already becoming an upstanding member of the ekklesia. Furthermore allow me to congratulate Demosthenes on becoming Epistates. It is my firm belief that he will prove fit for such a high position amongst our people.

When we have liberated Mytilene, we will not be under immediate threat of hostilities by the major powers of Asia, as Pergamon will act as a buffer of sorts. However it is probably wise to plan ahead so to speak. It is my belief that it is more beneficial for the Hellenic free peoples that the status quo between the Arche Seleukeia and Ptolemaoi is to be maintained, but it is only a matter of time until one of them gains the upper hand, and may turn upon us when their respective "big bad rival" is gone.

Therefore I PROPOSE that we inquire map information - and/or send spies to their lands - from the Arche Seleukeia, and our Ptolemaio allies, so that we can see how their ongoing war progresses, so that we can plan our actions accordingly."

I AGREE with your proposal.


Arthouros added:

"Some in the Spartatai assembly are proposing that Pergamon is to be conquered after our liberation of Mytilene. Also it appears to be some sort of desire amongst some of them to bind Pergamon and/or Mytilene closer to them, by attacking using the Spartan armies. Am I correct in the notion that we Athenioi control all of the Koinon fleet at this time? In any event I PROPOSE that we block any attempts on their behalf to deploy the Spartatai army in Mikra Asia independently and that all Koinon forces that are going to be deployed to Mikra Asia, (Spartatai reinforcement included) are to be placed directly under Alliance command. Mytilene is to stay neutral in inter-Koinon politics and Pergamon shall not be forced into the Koinon"

I AGREE, the Pergamoneans have had enough with their independence from Arche Seleukeia, we do not need to incite them if we are going to force them.


Arthouros added:

"Also, upon the liberation of Mytilene I PROPOSE that its population is neither enslaved nor expelled. The reason to why I propose this is quite simple; the last time the Alliance Army seized a polis we Athenoi had not decided upon a stance regarding how the populace would be treated, and as such the Spartan motion to enslave Demetrias population was carried out. That is something I would like to avoid in the future."

Arthouros was seated again.


~Arthouros

I AGREE, those are good greek, supporting the ways of the polis, yet we also need barbaroi slaves however, The northern tribes would provide us many I believe.


Okay how about this then:

Arthouros spoke:

"It is probably best if we give the Spartatai something in return... After the liberation of Mytilene and after the Alliance army have returned to Hellas proper, I PROPOSE the following:

* That the Spartan reinforcements to the Allied army be returned to a Spartatai general of their choosing.

* That the Alliance army aid the Spartatai in taking Thermon

* Let the Spartatai decide upon the system of governance there.

This is of course only if they agree to the proposal to aid the Allied army in Mikra Asia."

Molinaargh could you leave the session open until some other people have voiced their opinions on these new proposals? Thanks in advance. :bow:

I: I AGREE with this proposal.

II and III: I DISAGREE with these proposals, Thermon can destroy our armies, it would be more prudent to wait for them to call for our aid against Epiros.


I PROPOSE that no Spartan or Athenian generals and no larger quantity of Spartan or Athenian soldiers remain in Asia Minor after the conquest of Mytilene. The garrison should be levied there.

I AGREE with this proposal.

With this Leumenes rode to Lakedaimonia, uncertain of what was going on there.

~Jirisys ()

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

II and III: I DISAGREE with these proposals, Thermon can destroy our armies, it would be more prudent to wait for them to call for our aid against Epiros.


Those proposals were only made to make the Spartatai agree to not go on a spree of conquest in Mikra Asia, and still send some degree of support to the Alliance army. So really I understand your concern.

[Paltmull]

II: I DISAGREE with your proposal, as an Tyranneia or Allied Kingdom would be more suitable for remote colonies. Therefore, I PROPOSE an Allied Basileion to be instituted in Lesbos.

Moolinargh: If Lesbos is to be neutral, would the AAR rules require a type IV government? If that is the case, I AGREE with this proposal instead of the one Arthuros Rahl made. If not, I still support the Type II gov. proposal.

Also, about my suggestion regarding the Mytilene garrison being levied from Mytilene: Leaving a small garrison there until recruitment is possible would of course still be necessary. No generals though!

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

Lulz that was Rahl's proposal... Any way yeah I would also want to know if the Government type affects the neutrality of the settlement. If it's not possible to establish a democratic Kleroucheia without affecting the neutrality, then I too AGREE with the proposal Leumenes/jirsys made; i.e. Mytilene to be a Free Allied Kingdom/Type IV. As Rahls proposal have been withdrawn I now instead AGREE with Leumenes proposal to establish a Free Allied Kingdom at Mytilene.

[Gaius Sempronius Gracchus]

Demosthenes, who had entered the council earlier and sat in deep conversation with his excellent and trusty slave, catching up on council business, arose.

"Fellow Athenians, fellow Hellenes, business has kept me from this council for longer than I have desired. It is good, though, to see that so many fine minds dwell within our fine city. It is a great honour to be named Epistate of this council, one that I shall work to be worthy of, and I thank you for your kind words of support on that matter Arthourus. I shall make offerings to Athena Pallas for her grace, and for her continued blessing of wisdom to our great city, as demonstrated by you fine men of this council.

I thank you also, Arthourus, for bringing to the attention of this council the sentiment of some of the spartan council. I will say two things on this matter. First, that the individual who made the proposals that you refer to is something of a .....hothead, a losse cannon, perhaps, when his ire is raised. I believe that many of the other Spartan councillors were as shocked by his proposals as many here may have been. Secondly, the reasons for such ire can be addressed by us in this council. Suspicion has stepped between our two great cities in the past, and we must not allow it to poison our relations again. Again, I must commend Arthourus, for making clear that we offer Sparte much, that our actions are not for the benefit of Athens alone, but for the benefit of the Koinon. We must stand together. I will say, in fact, that we will stand only together. If we are divided we will fall. Truly, I believe it is that stark a choice.

The passing on of Areus is a loss to the Koinon. I believe he was a fine, intelligent and honourable man, of the noblest of intentions. Sparte's loss is our loss also.

I will now peruse the proposals put before this session of the council before casting my opinion upon them. Glory to Hellas, great men of Athens."

With that Demosthenes sat and began a long and involved discussion with his slave.

[Rahl]

II: I DISAGREE with your proposal, as an Tyranneia or Allied Kingdom would be more suitable for remote colonies. Therefore, I PROPOSE an Allied Basileion to be instituted in Lesbos.
After some consideration, I changed my mind. I take back my proposal and AGREE to yours.

III: I Already proposed that before you edited it, so... I'll have to AGREE
I noticed that too late, our Proposals should be seen as one.

V: I PARTIALLY DISAGREE we must be ready if the epirots want to desecrate Delphoi, we should be ready to defend them.
I agree with that. I meant we should take no offensive actions against Thermon, because I fear some people consider the Aitolian lands as the next region to expand. If the Epeirotes attack Thermon we should help them, I fear this day is near...



VI: It's NOT POSSIBLE until the next KH elections
I didn't know that. Then I PROPOSE that we take an attempt to change the Constitution, there's always the possibility of the death of the Strategos and the Polemarchos in the same year.


Therefore I PROPOSE that we inquire map information - and/or send spies to their lands - from the Arche Seleukeia, and our Ptolemaio allies, so that we can see how their ongoing war progresses, so that we can plan our actions accordingly.
I AGREE and I PROPOSE that we do the same with Epeiros and Mikra Asia.

In any event I PROPOSE that we block any attempts on their behalf to deploy the Spartatai army in Mikra Asia independently and that all Koinon forces that are going to be deployed to Mikra Asia, (Spartatai reinforcement included) are to be placed directly under Alliance command. Mytilene is to stay neutral in inter-Koinon politics and Pergamon shall not be forced into the Koinon
I AGREE .

Also, upon the liberation of Mytilene I PROPOSE that its population is neither enslaved nor expelled.
I AGREE.

[Molinaargh]

This has been a busy session, and it is now over. Epistates Demosthenes was sadly unable to state his opinions, but actions must be taken, and it seems the Boule has already made up its mind.

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

Arthouros:

Attack Mytilene

PARTIALLY AGREE jiri

AGREE Rahl, Enyalio


The Spy stationed outside Pergamon is to infiltrate Mytilene and attempt to open the gates for our forces

AGREE Leumenes, Paltmull

Get map information from the Arche Seleukeia and our Ptolemaio allies, either through diplomacy or espionage, so that we can see how their ongoing war progresses, so that we can plan our actions accordingly.

AGREE Paltmull, Rahl


“In any event I PROPOSE that we block any attempts on their behalf to deploy the Spartatai army in Mikra Asia independently and that all Koinon forces that are going to be deployed to Mikra Asia, (Spartatai reinforcement included) are to be placed directly under Alliance command. Mytilene is to stay neutral in inter-Koinon politics and Pergamon shall not be forced into the Koinon"

AGREE – Fireblade, Leumenes, Rahl

DISAGREE Paltmull

"After the liberation of Mytilene and after the Alliance army have returned to Hellas proper, I PROPOSE the following":

* That the Spartan reinforcements to the Allied army be returned to a Spartatai general of their choosing.

AGREE Palmull, Leumenes

* That the Alliance army aid the Spartatai in taking Thermon

AGREE Palmull DISAGREE Leumenes

* Let the Spartatai decide upon the system of governance there.

AGREE Palmull DISAGREE Leumenes

Population of Mytilene not to be enslaved or expelled

AGREE Leumenes, Rahl, Paltmull




Enyalio:



Build temple in Athenai or Chalkis.

Our diplomats and spies are to travel to the following cities and attempt to restore relations: Massalia, Emporion, Syracuse, Chersonesos, Pantikapaion

AGREE Leumenes, Arthouros




Leumenes:


The Athenian army is to garrison the city of Demetrias

AGREE Rahl, Arthouros

Mytilene to be an Allied Kingdom (Type IV)

AGREE Arthouros, Rahl


Keep upgrading our infrastructure in all of the cities in our control.

AGREE Arthouros, Enyalio


Focus on developing a more professional army

AGREE Arthouros, Enyalio


Rahl:

Get map information from Epeiros and Mikra Asia, either through diplomacy or espionage.

Result: None - Session over.

[Paltmull]

You forgot:

Paltmull:

No Spartan or Athenian generals and no larger quantity of Spartan or Athenian soldiers remain in Asia Minor after the conquest of Mytilene. The garrison should be levied there.

AGREE Leumenes

[Molinaargh]

514 (262 BC)


Makedonia's Last Stand


Athenian orders:
-Attack Mytilene with the Alliance Army. (Yes)
-Request the Spartan Army to aid in such task. (They refused)
-Demetrias to be reinforced with the Athenian Army. (Yes)
-Infrastructure investments to continue. (Yes)
-No more men in Athenai's sphere of influence to be recruited (Athenai has no power outside of it, as it doesn't control the Hegemon). (Yes)
-Temple to be built in Athenai or Chalkis. (Yes)
-Contact to be made with other Hellenic cities: Syracuse, Masalia, Emporion, Chersonesos and Pantikapaion. (Only Syracuse)
-Athenian Fleet should only be used by the Spartan Army if they agree to become commanded by the Alliance. (They refused)
-Free Allied Kingdom to be established in Mytilene. (Yes)

Spartan orders:
-Reinforce the Spartan Army. (Yes)
-Athen's request for Spartan reinforcements to be ignored.
-Pella to be besieged. The siege must be long (Mytilene may not be attacked since the Athenians wouldn't lend their ships).
-Diplomatic report on Epeiros and the Getai tribes. (Yes)
-Increased espionage on Epeiros and the Getai. (Tes)






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The year of 514 started slow. Eugenios Rhodios got married and many important men of the Hellenic League attended his marriage. They all knew how important the support of Rhodos was to the Alliance, and they all wanted their share of the island's wealth.

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From Anatolē, our spies sent reports of how the ruins of Troia had been almost completely destroyed by the continuous Makedon sieges to Pergamon. The Alliance Army would soon be very close to it.

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Akrotatos had a daughter and named her Thessalonike, perhaps wishing the gods would favor the Spartans in their conquest of the region by the same name.

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The Athenians, on the other hand, erected a temple dedicated to Athena in the polis of Chalkis, hoping to gain her favor in their expedition to Lesbos.

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Doros and the Alliance Army left for Lesbos and arrived quickly, going by sea from Demetrias to the island.

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Doros ordered the city to be besieged immediatly.

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The siege did not last long, as the Makedones that were besieging Pergamon (again!) returned to aid Euchrous Mitylenaios, the polis's Tyrannos.

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The city was occupied, and left to decide its own fate with one condition: Mytilene was now an allied polis of the Koinon Hellenon.

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The new situation of Mikra Asia.

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In the meantime, the Spartans were on their own adventure. Hegemon Akrotatos recruited men from Sparte, Korinthos and some from Demetrias to reinforce the Spartan Armies. Armies, yes, because now they were 2: the 1st Spartan Army and the 2nd Spartan Army.

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The two Spartan Armies positioned themselved by the fort near Demetrias, ready to launch an attack on Pella, the Makedon capital and now their last stand.

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Even mercenaries were hired to fill the ranks of the 2nd Spartan Army under Damasos Souniakos.

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The 1st Spartan Army, under Eudamidas, besieged Pella

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The 2nd Army came from behind and attacked the Makedon scouting party, so that they couldn't cut the Spartan supply line or threaten the siege in any manner.

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Months passed, winter came, and the Makedons seemed to have accepted their state of siege. They could still last a long time in Pella - the city had plenty of supplies - but the longer they stayed inside the walls, the weaker and more demoralized their garrison would become.


Espionage and Diplomatic Reports:


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The Spartan Armies are outside of Pella. The Athenian Army is garrisoned in Demetrias, and the Alliance Army is in Mytilene.

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This council session is now open for you brave (and those not-so-brave as well) hellenes to discuss what orders will be sent to the strategoi, the poleis and whoever else we feel like bossing around.

[Walle]

I PROPOSE we leave a small garrison in Mytilene, and take the Alliance army back to the mainland, perhaps to assist the Spartans. I don't think we should attract the attention of the Seleucids by attacking Pergamon or any other city in Mikra Asia.

[The_Blacksmith]

I PROPOSE we leave a small garrison in Mytilene, and take the Alliance army back to the mainland, perhaps to assist the Spartans. I don't think we should attract the attention of the Seleucids by attacking Pergamon or any other city in Mikra Asia.

I AGREE with this motion

I PROPOSE to reinforce the navy and hunt off the pitares at Krete

[diomede]

Athenians! I beg your forgiveness for my long absense from your great city, but alas my holy work has kept me busy enough to barely attend the Spartan councils, never mind make the treck to Attica. My slave has done a terrible job, truly awful, so I regret to waste time by asking who I may view here as allies? And who may I be wary of spewing the same vile hatred of the Spartan National Unionists?

I would like to assauge fears that the attack on Pella has been done to spite the rest of the Koinon Hellenon; a buffer is nice, but a fortress is better. We already share a border with Epeiros through the Pindus mountains. The tribes of Thaikia to the east and northeast are either allied to us or neutral. Epeiros on the other hand, they will attack us some day, and when they do we should be ready. The conquest of Pella is purely a defensive one, at least so far as the Lacedaemon Unionists are concerned. Upon completing the conquest of Pella, I shall be appealing to my Spartan councilors that above all else, the first priority should be the strengthening of its wall defenses.

Allow me to feel you out on a touchy subject, that of the navy. At present it appears that we Spartans have decided to rebuild our navy, primarily to have one available for when you bar us from using your own. May I propose that we attempt to cooperate more on the use of the Koinon's navy?

[Enyalio]

"Dear friends,

Our plans have been fruitfull. Mytilene has now joined the alliance. Praise to Athena and our young commander Doros. I AGREE with the suggestions to withdraw the alliance army from Mytilene made by Kairos.

It also seems the Spartans did not feel that a build-up of strenght was necessary. We were amiss perhaps. We should have seen that their warlike nature would not allow them to sit back.
However our disagreements over the attacks of Pella an Mytilene might have caused some stir in our relationship. I would request (PROPOSE)a visit from the Spartan ambassador to explain their motives and intentions. We also must explain to them that our actions or decisions are not meant to thwart Spartan influence, but to allow for balance and moderation, lest no vengeful feelings are allowed to build up.

But assesing the state of our dominion, I think we have done well. I would ask the council at this moment to lay not only their immediate proposals before us, but also their ideas about our future endeavours. Should we hold ourselves to our promise to Sinope and go east? Should we try to establish contact with our brothers in the West? Should we focus on trade or upon war?

It is now that we must ask ourselves these questions, now that the war with Macedon, which has dominated our speech and our lives, is drawing to an end. For myself I believe a promise is a promise. We must start thinking about aiding Sinope. On the other hand my cousin arrived yesterday from the city of Kyrene. This polis is hemmed between Carthage and our Ptolemaic friends and they are looking for a protector to stay out of any struggles. Maybe we should send some envoys to see what can be done. I PROPOSE we send a diplomat and a spy to Kyrene.

Either way we should use this period of semi-peace to re-equip our army. New threaths will appear, and they might prove to hard for our levied forces. Let us not forget Epirus. they want macedonian land, and they care not if it is cuurently controled by us or by Macedon.
I PROPOSE once again, as did Leumenes before me, to recall the Athenian army. To gradually disband our levies (only 1 unit of militia hoplites to be maintained) and to replace them with professional hoplites. I also PROPOSE to build up military infrasctructure in Athens and trade infrastructure in the other poleis under our influence.
The same goes for our fleet, the pride of Athens. I therefore AGREE with my collegue who spoke before me (Hephaestus).

Let us not make quick decisions now and speak of all these matters."

Enyalio sat down and let his slave fetch some refreshments.

[Enyalio]

"Ah, the spartan ambassador has arrived in my short absence. I thank him for his intervention. I partially AGREE with the notion of cooperation concerning the navy. Perhaps an alliance fleet shouls be made available? The Athenian fleet however is our lifesblood. We cannot allow its use by others without consent of this council. What say you fellow-councilors?"

[Paltmull]

The same goes for our fleet, the pride of Athens. I therefore AGREE with my collegue who spoke before me.



Enyalio: You meant to agree with The Blacksmith and not diomede, right? Just to avoid misunderstandings.



Allow me to feel you out on a touchy subject, that of the navy. At present it appears that we Spartans have decided to rebuild our navy, primarily to have one available for when you bar us from using your own. May I propose that we attempt to cooperate more on the use of the Koinon's navy?

Diomedes' proposal raises a very important question, namely this: What is the purpose of the Koinon? Is it to cooperate in defending against foreign threats, or is it to help each other in attacking independent cities and carving out empires? I say it is the first of the two. Therefore, the Athenian fleet should be used only in the interests of either the alliance or Athens. If Sparta wishes to conquer cities for their own glory, then fine, but we should not help them.

Diomede, may I ask you what you want with our fleet? Does Sparta have personal interests in Asia Minor? Just remember whose historical sphere of influence that is...

Anyway, if Spartans at all are allowed to make proposals in our council (which I suppose they aren't), I DISAGREE with Diomedes' proposal. At the moment the alliance should not have any oversea interests. And Sparta should definitely not be allowed to use our navy for their own advantage.

[Enyalio]

Enyalio: You meant to agree with The Blacksmith and not diomede, right? Just to avoid misunderstandings.

Enyalio shook awake from his slumber...

"Hmm, yes, apologies for the misunderstanding. I meant the proposal of Hephaestus (the Blacksmith)."

... and then dozed of again.

[Paltmull]

By the way, if what Diomede says about pella is true; that it is assaulted for the good of the alliance, then i PROPOSE that we ask Sparta to leave Pella neutral (type IV gov) after its conquest, as a gesture of good will. After all, that is what we did with Mytilene.

EDIT: I crossed out the last sentence, since Mytilene, as Molinaargh pointed out, was conquered by the Alliance army; hence its neutrality. I still hold on to my proposal though. If the Spartans claim that their refusal to listen to the Strategos and their attack on Pella were both made for the good of the alliance, then they'd better damn prove it.

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

I STRONGLY AGREE with your proposal, Paltmull.





Anyway, if Spartans at all are allowed to make proposals in our council (which I suppose they aren't), I DISAGREE with Diomedes' proposal. At the moment the alliance should not have any oversea interests. And Sparta should definitely not be allowed to use our navy for their own advantage.

They are, and we are vice versa; jirisys and I have made some proposals at TWC for example.

Oh and Diomede the sole reason we were reluctant to move the Spartan army with the fleet was because we were not so keen on the "Let's conquer Minor Asia in teh name of Zack Snyder and lulz" proposal which of course even many Spartans found, rather silly. So yes more cooperation with the navy in the future, as long as it is not the spring board to establish some overseas Spartan empire.

[Molinaargh]

By the way, if what Diomede says about pella is true; that it is assaulted for the good of the alliance, then i PROPOSE that we ask Sparta to leave Pella neutral (type IV gov) after its conquest, as a gesture of good will. After all, that is what we did with Mytilene.
It's interesting how the Athenians expect the Spartans to sabotage themselves out of their own free will, and vice versa.

Mytilene remains neutral because the Alliance Army conquered it instead of the Athenian Army, not out of Athenian niceness.

[Paltmull]

Well, with all this talk of Spartan domination, over at their council, we have every right to be concerned. And now when Sparta has refused to assist the Strategos and instead attacked Pella, I think it would only be common decency to leave it neutral to prove that "the attack on Pella has been done to spite the rest of the Koinon Hellenon" as Diomede so nicely claimed.

If they don't do that, they will show that they put their own interests before those of the alliance. They will show that they refused to assist in an alliance operation to conquer a city for themselves instead. Nothing wrong with that, perhaps. But if that's the case they should at least admit it.

[Greenlizard0.]

This is a tremendous AAR, and I would like to participate.

I propose the following:

1 We schould check the status of Byzantium (with our fleet or someting else)
2 If Makedonia has taken the city, we should liberate it.

OR

3 If Makedonia have weakend the city, we should persuade them to join the koinon, and attack them if they don't
4 We should only attack if they left the city almost undefended (for our strategous to decide)
5 We should attack with the Atenian army
6 We should create a democratic goverment there
7 The citizens should not be harmed or enslaved


"Dear friends,

Our plans have been fruitfull. Mytilene has now joined the alliance. Praise to Athena and our young commander Doros. I AGREE (:book:On this matter I am neutral:book:) with the suggestions to withdraw the alliance army from Mytilene made by Kairos.

It also seems the Spartans did not feel that a build-up of strenght was necessary. We were amiss perhaps. We should have seen that their warlike nature would not allow them to sit back.
However our disagreements over the attacks of Pella an Mytilene might have caused some stir in our relationship. I would request (PROPOSE) (:book: I agree :book: )a visit from the Spartan ambassador to explain their motives and intentions. We also must explain to them that our actions or decisions are not meant to thwart Spartan influence, but to allow for balance and moderation, lest no vengeful feelings are allowed to build up.

But assesing the state of our dominion, I think we have done well. I would ask the council at this moment to lay not only their immediate proposals before us, but also their ideas about our future endeavours. Should we hold ourselves to our promise to Sinope and go east? Should we try to establish contact with our brothers in the West? Should we focus on trade or upon war?

It is now that we must ask ourselves these questions, now that the war with Macedon, which has dominated our speech and our lives, is drawing to an end. For myself I believe a promise is a promise. We must start thinking about aiding Sinope. On the other hand my cousin arrived yesterday from the city of Kyrene. This polis is hemmed between Carthage and our Ptolemaic friends and they are looking for a protector to stay out of any struggles. Maybe we should send some envoys to see what can be done. I PROPOSE (:book:On this matter I am neutral becuase of my proposal:book:) we send a diplomat and a spy to Kyrene.

Either way we should use this period of semi-peace to re-equip our army. New threaths will appear, and they might prove to hard for our levied forces. Let us not forget Epirus. they want macedonian land, and they care not if it is cuurently controled by us or by Macedon.
I PROPOSE (:book: I agree :book:) once again, as did Leumenes before me, to recall the Athenian army. To gradually disband our levies (only 1 unit of militia hoplites to be maintained) and to replace them with professional hoplites. I also PROPOSE (:book:On this matter I am neutral:book:) to build up military infrasctructure in Athens and trade infrastructure in the other poleis under our influence.
The same goes for our fleet, the pride of Athens. I therefore AGREE (:book:On this matter I am neutral:book:) with my collegue who spoke before me (Hephaestus).

Let us not make quick decisions now and speak of all these matters."

Enyalio sat down and let his slave fetch some refreshments.

[Gaius Sempronius Gracchus]

It's interesting how the Athenians expect the Spartans to sabotage themselves out of their own free will, and vice versa.

Mytilene remains neutral because the Alliance Army conquered it instead of the Athenian Army, not out of Athenian niceness.

I don't think you're being entirely fair with this description of events. Demetrias was taken by the Alliance army and didn't become a free, neutral polis. It was a matter of discussion within the Athenian council that such action as was taken in Mytilene was done fairly for the benefit of the Koinon.

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

It is neutral in Koinon politics. What I think Molinaargh means is that whenever a city is taken by the Allied Army - the city becomes neutral, whenever a city is taken by the Athenoi - the city becomes aligned towards Athenai, whenever a city is taken by the Spartatai... Or at least that's how I interpreted it.

[Gaius Sempronius Gracchus]

"Young Enyalio again proves his worth to this council. Wise words. Now is the time to think of what our aims are. I AGREE with the proposal to recall our army and to replace the levies with a more professional force. I AGREE also with the proposal to build up our military and trading infrastructures. I AGREE with Kairos' proposal that we leave a small garrison in Mytilene, and reinforce the garrison from within Mytilene itself. But, I would not agree to sending aid to the Spartans at Pella. I would prefer to implore the Spartans to withdraw from their siege of Pella.

On that matter, welcome once more Diomede, I know that you see the sense of our alliance, and question some of the more....impulsive actions of the , more and more vocal, Spartan nationalists. I would emphasise Paltmull's question. Is the Koinon about shared defence of our shared interests, or in making war on independent states. I believe it should be the former.

Pella may prove to be costly. Too costly. We have the Macedons hemmed in there. Let them take the pressure from their enemies the Epirotes, let us use the time that buys us to strengthen our military and economic bases. THEN, we will be ready to face down the inevitable Epirote desire for domination."

[Gaius Sempronius Gracchus]

It is neutral in Koinon politics. What I think Molinaargh means is that whenever a city is taken by the Allied Army - the city becomes neutral, whenever a city is taken by the Athenoi - the city becomes aligned towards Athenai, whenever a city is taken by the Spartatai... Or at least that's how I interpreted it.

Indeed. But I was saying that it was by decree of the Athenian council that Mytilene be a level IV, rather than a level II government, in order to ensure that it was regarded entirely as neutral.

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

Hmm... I don't really know if the type of government affects the neutrality so I'm going to ask.

@Molinaargh Does the type of Government of a region affect the neutrality of a polis? Even if the city is taken with the Alliance army?

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

https://img573.imageshack.us/img573/7514/013st.jpg


"Fellow councillors this small Makedonoi force near Pergamon may be small, but it is large enough to threaten the Polis of Pergamon's independence. Not only that but Pergamon at this time serves as a buffer of sorts between Mytilene and the Arche Seleukeia, and I believe it is in our best interests to see to it that this buffer is maintained, as we do simply not have forces to compare to the might of the Arche Seleukeia.

Therefore I PROPOSE that we with the Alliance army attack this Makedonian force before the Alliance army returns to mainland Hellas."

[Molinaargh]

Hmm... I don't really know if the type of government affects the neutrality so I'm going to ask.

@Molinaargh Does the type of Government of a region affect the neutrality of a polis? Even if the city is taken with the Alliance army?
Apparently. This was never expected in the rules. Like many other rules, we are making them up as we go, as need arises.

Is it your intention to make one of those proposals compilations? Now would be a good time if you are! :beam: If not I can do it, no problem.

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

I'm feeling rather lazy right now, so I will probably not do it . :P

I'll try to do it next time though.





I PROPOSE to reinforce the navy and hunt off the pitares at Krete

I PROPOSE we leave a small garrison in Mytilene, and take the Alliance army back to the mainland, perhaps to assist the Spartans. I don't think we should attract the attention of the Seleucids by attacking Pergamon or any other city in Mikra Asia.


PROPOSE we send a diplomat and a spy to Kyrene.


I PROPOSE once again, as did Leumenes before me, to recall the Athenian army. To gradually disband our levies (only 1 unit of militia hoplites to be maintained) and to replace them with professional hoplites.

I also PROPOSE to build up military infrasctructure in Athens and trade infrastructure in the other poleis under our influence


AGREE to all

[Molinaargh]

This session is now over, thanks for all who participated.

[Rahl]

Mytilene remains neutral because the Alliance Army conquered it instead of the Athenian Army, not out of Athenian niceness.
It's neutral just because the name of an army is that of the Alliance? Don't forget who commands the army - an Athenian - and from where his soldiers are - Athenia itself or poleis under its unfluence. Most of the Spartan warriors left the Alliance army and are now fighting their personal wars instead of assisting at the conquest of Mytilene. It was the decision of the council and the Strategos not to influence Mytilene and to leave it neutral since we could have decided differently.

[diomede]

Before replying to the below quote, I must apologize for my lack of time. Despite being British I live on an American time zone. Mountain is probably the fairest explanation. Anyway, I shall provide more input if time allows, but first I must read the TWC forum.


On that matter, welcome once more Diomede, I know that you see the sense of our alliance, and question some of the more....impulsive actions of the , more and more vocal, Spartan nationalists. I would emphasise Paltmull's question. Is the Koinon about shared defence of our shared interests, or in making war on independent states. I believe it should be the former.
I believe it to be neither. I see our alliance as acting in the interests of the... alliance. Whether that be in an aggressive or defensive manner isn't so much of an issue to me, as long as it benefits our military position. I do of course leave the finer details to those that actually do the fighting, I just advise on whether or not the gods smile upon our poleis, or sometimes our entire alliance.

I am slightly confused about the whole issue surrounding Pella. We beseiged this city out of spite? Since when? Not only that, but our choice of government will explain our actions? Nay, sir! Our choice of government shall be one which is most appropriate. One that allows for the best possible military recruitment of native troops, at least I hope so, and will campaign for. I wish for Pella to become the KOINON HELLENON's most nothern military fortress. A strong defence of the rest of Greece, or a base of operations against Epeirote holdings, whatever. I will grant you, my Athenian colleagues, that a military emphasis may make it appear that it is of the Spartan influence, but such is the nature of our culture. I beg your understanding of such a matter. If I were weak at birth I'd have been left in the mountains! War is simply in our blood, as is preparation for it and prevention of it against our (and by extension) and your homes.

[Populus Romanus]

Well said, Ephor Diomede!

[diomede]

My nation's rival party compliments me... I'm not sure whether to be pleased or concerned. :P

(Thanks)

[Populus Romanus]

You were once an SNP member.

[diomede]

You were once an SNP member.
This is true, much like how Anakin was once a Jedi... only reversed. :P

[Molinaargh]

515 (261 BC)
The Siege of Pella


Athenian orders:
-Alliance Army to return to Hellas and assist the Spartans in the siege of Pella. (Returned, but couldn't assist)
-Athenian Army levies to be gradually replaced with professional units. (Yes)
-Military infrastructure to be built up, as well as trade infrastricture in other poleis. (Yes)
-Spy and Diplomat to be sent to Kyrene. (Fleet and agents ready to sail, but haven't left Hellas yet)

Spartan orders:
-Build a Spartan Fleet. (Yes)
-Immediatly assault Pella. (Yes)
If Pella is taken:
-Watch towers must be built to the east and north.
-Population to be expelled.
-Level 2 or 3 government in Pella.
-Garrison army to be trained.
-Build stronger walls in the city.
-Thermon to be assaulted and occupied.





(Click "Show" to view the update)



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The year of 514 (262 BC) ended with great festivals celebrating the 10 years of the Alliance of Hellenes. In all the poleis throughout the Koinon the date was celebrated, and rivalries were put aside for a few days.

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By the end of the winter, Doros left Mytilene with most of the Alliance Army (a small garrison had stayed in Lesbos) in the direction of Pella, hoping to aid the Spartans in the siege.

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He didn't arrive quickly enough, though. Before Doros could desembark, the Makedones tried to break the siege while the Alliance Army reinforcements hadn't arrived. It was an even battle in numbers, but Antigonos Argeades, the Basileos, had highly trained men and incredible experience leading armies. Both Eudamidas and Damasos were second-rate Spartan nobility, and had stayed under the shadows of greater men up until this point, having little leadership experience. This was their chance to prove themselves.

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The enemy's phalanxes were one of the biggest worries of the Spartan commanders.

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The first priority in the battle was to merge the 1st and 2nd Spartan Armies into one huge fighting force. This was easily achieved while the Makedones were forming their phalanxes.

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The Makedon Basileos charged our hoplites foolishly and where quickly encircled.

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Antigonos Argeades, Basileos of Makedonia, was dead. The enemy's formation went downhill from this point, and the solid merged Spartan Armies killed the barbaroi one by one.

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Kratetos Argeades, the brother of the dead Basileos, ran from the battle and returned to Pella with the few Makedones that survived.

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Pella was still under siege, but it was now doomed to fall.

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Back in Athenai, new military facilities were under construction.

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And new recruits were being trained to replace the levies of the Athenian Army.

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In Demetrias, the old plan of improving the walls was put into practice. The Makedones wouldn't attack it anymore, but what about the Epeirotes?

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A fleet for the Spartans was built in Mytilene by the order of Hegemon Akrotatos.

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It was ready half an year later, available to the orders of the Spartan Council.

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The assault on Pella began as soon as the Spartans had regrouped and the siege equipment was ready.

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The last Makedon rider watches as the Spartans conquer the city.

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The population of the city was expelled as per orders of the Spartan Council.

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When Doros desembarked with the Alliance Army, it was to return to Demetrias to see his father, Chremonides, and to await further orders from the Athenian Council.

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In Pella a Tyrannos was put in power...

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...but not exactly a local one. The Spartans knew if they gave a Macedonian such title he could easily lead a revolt and declare himself Basileos of Makedonia. Instead, an outsider would be put as Tyrannos. The man chosen by Eudamidas and Damasos, commanders of the Spartan armies, was Damasos himself. Eudamidas was already a King of Sparta, while Damasos had no hopes of ever becoming one. Damasos was now Tyrannos of Makedonia for the Koinon, and Basileos for the locals. Rumors say he wrote a letter that began with: "This is the story of how I became the most important man in Hellas..."
Could Damasos be trusted?


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A watch tower was built to the east of Pella, and another to the north, in order to scout for any barbaroi or epeirotai invasions.

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The Epeirote invasion happened somewhere else. Pyrrhos besieged Thermon with his Royal Army, certainly aware of the growing influence of the Koinon. This would put the two new powers of Hellas very close to direct confrontation.

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Pyrrhos wasn't the only one expanding his kingdom. In Anatolia, the Seleukids and even the Basileos of Pontos were besieging independent poleis. Nikaia fell quickly, while Pergamon is still resisting.

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The current situation of Hellas, with Pyrrhos's Royal Army outside Thermon, the Spartan armies garrisoned in Pella and the Athenian and Alliance armies in Demetrias.

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Council session now open to make decisons on the matters of concern in the year 516 (260 BC). Next year new Koinon elections will take place, and with a small change made by the wise Koinon legislators: they will now happen every 5 years instead of 4.

[jirisys]

Leumenes arrived to the boule. Last year he couldn't assinst because he was in Lesbos, and no ship would be so foolish to sail with only one man in the midst of pirates.

"I am saddened, shattered, to have missed this great assembly. However my duties as a Somatophilakes could not wait. Yet, I am here, hoping to propose wise legislation. My friends, I am glad to see that Pella was taken, yet in my mind, I would have hoped the spartans to retreat, as they have pushed us so far north it will be difficult to hold of the Epirotes and the Barbaroi tribes, yet I will show very strong willing commitment to help the spartans in their defense.
First off, I believe we should recruit a professional army in Lesbos (and a great general to lead them) to fend off the Seleukid attacks, of course, in due time, declare war to them. We must let Pergamon to be free (Eleutheroi) and defend them if they cannot, if we do declare war, leave multiple forts so that they are easily reinforced by the allied army outiside. If they are not disturbed however, we should go to Sinope and at last liberate them from the Pontic rule, however we must be weary, as such we should leave a strong garrison in Lesbos and in Sinope. The athenian army is to conquer the outlying regions around the Aegean such as Chersonesos Thraikia so we may not be sorrounded by the Barbaroi. This is rash, I understand, but if the Getai attack Pella, we would be sorrounded and unable to get reinforcements. The allied army should in all instances try to mantain control of Aitolia, not letting it under Epirot rule. The attack and defeat on Pella was a bad tactical move; as it would leave the city prone to attack from two armies and without the ability to acquire reinforcements from the other side."

"I am glad to be in the Boule this year my friends, I will hand the orator the parchment of the proposals"

I PROPOSE we recruit an independent army ASAP in the next few years in Lesbos and to be independent of both the Spartan and Athenian wishes (meaning it can only build lvl IV govs. and the army, along with their captured cities are neutral to either poleis' causes.), only the polis who controls the strategos can give orders to it (I guess, if not just make the damned army). (LONG TERM PLAN)
I PROPOSE we recruit an allied general to lead the army (LONG TERM PLAN)
I PROPOSE we defend the Basileion ton Pergamou if they cannot be able to do so themselves, even if that means declaring war against the Arche Seleukeia.
I PROPOSE that if we declare war on the Arche Seleukeia that we prevent their access to the Island by building forts in which the Allied army (be it the mainland one or the independent eastern front one) may defeat their besiegers.
I PROPOSE that if Pergamon is not in danger, that we liberate Sinope from pontic rule with the independent allied army from the east. (LONG TERM PLAN)
I PROPOSE that if the Getae tribes wage war at us, the athenian army to conquer Bizantion so we have a bigger and more reinforcable front against the Barbaroi. (LONG TERM PLAN)
I PROPOSE the allied army to keep a watch over Aitolia, not letting Epeiros hold it for one second if they capture it.

Changes in DARK BLUE
Long term plans in INDIGO

~Jirisys (placeholder :daisy:es! :laugh4:)

[Molinaargh]

And how do you expect a professional army to be recruited in Mytilene in the next 4 seasons? Please be more realistic.

[Populus Romanus]

May I point out how weak the garrison of Halikarnassos is? You may want to look into that while you still have time.

[diomede]

The Spartan high priest stands, a confused look on his face. He knows that he and Leumines don't often see eye to eye, but even so, mulling over his proposals has caused a headache. He patiently waits his turn to speak as the Speaker nods towards a couple more minor Athenian nobles. He finally gets a nod of approval and steps forward after taking a sip of wine.

Friend, how is attacking an independent poleis (Bizantion) justifiable but the conquest of Pergamon, by anyone, is not? For now, this Spartan would like to implore the Athenian senate to vote against such a proposal. If need be you may send your army, or even the Alliance army which you control, back to Lesbos. This will allow for a more long term plan of recruiting and training a capable defensive force.

I disagree that the conquest of Thessaloniki being a poor tactical move. Without doing so, your proposal to take holdings on our side of the Bosporus would be impractical at best, possibly even impossible, not least because it is a breeding ground for pirates. Pella serves as a major transportation hub within the region and denying it to the Epeirotes makes the defence of Demetrias and our cities all the easier. It is clear that what I say rings with truth,

- At this point some of the councilors, having overindulged throughout the long meeting begin shouting him down, but he presses on steadily -

AS YOU ONly... need look at the Epeirote reaction. Pyrrhos wishes to control a third entry of attack into our union, as we have denied him any northern entry. The mountain passes are secured by fortifications, Demetrias' walls are being improved, so it proves to be the only direction of attack that is truly open to him.

Athenians, if I may be so bold. While you control both the Alliance and Athenian army, I would like to suggest - suggest, not propose - that you send one or the other to protect Lesbos in the mean time. Damasos shall prove himself competent in time and will ably lead the Second Spartan army in the defence of our northern frontier. Meanwhile the Athenian/Alliance (pick one) may defend the mountain passes of Thessaly and the First Spartan army can patrol the northern bank of the Gulf of Corinth.

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

Leumenes arrived to the boule. Last year he couldn't assinst because he was in Lesbos, and no ship would be so foolish to sail with only one man in the midst of pirates.

"I am saddened, shattered, to have missed this great assembly. However my duties as a Somatophilakes could not wait. Yet, I am here, hoping to propose wise legislation. My friends, I am glad to see that Pella was taken, yet in my mind, I would have hoped the spartans to retreat, as they have pushed us so far north it will be difficult to hold of the Epirotes and the Barbaroi tribes, yet I will show very strong willing commitment to help the spartans in their defense.
First off, I believe we should recruit a professional army in Lesbos (and a great general to lead them) to fend off the Seleukid attacks, of course, in due time, declare war to them. We must let Pergamon to be free (Eleutheroi) and defend them if they cannot, if we do declare war, leave multiple forts so that they are easily reinforced by the allied army outiside. If they are not disturbed however, we should go to Sinope and at last liberate them from the Pontic rule, however we must be weary, as such we should leave a strong garrison in Lesbos and in Sinope. The athenian army is to conquer the outlying regions around the Aegean such as Chersonesos Thraikia so we may not be sorrounded by the Barbaroi. This is rash, I understand, but if the Getai attack Pella, we would be sorrounded and unable to get reinforcements. The allied army should in all instances try to mantain control of Aitolia, not letting it under Epirot rule. The attack and defeat on Pella was a bad tactical move; as it would leave the city prone to attack from two armies and without the ability to acquire reinforcements from the other side."

"I am glad to be in the Boule this year my friends, I will hand the orator the parchment of the proposals"

I PROPOSE we recruit a professional army in Lesbos and to be independent of both the Spartan and Athenian wishes (meaning it can only build lvl IV govs. and the army, along with their captured cities are neutral to either poleis' causes.), only the polis who controls the strategos can give orders to it (I guess, if not just make the damned army)
I PROPOSE we recruit an allied general to lead the army
I PROPOSE we defend the Basileion ton Pergamou if they cannot be able to do so themselves, even if that means declaring war against the Arche Seleukeia.
I PROPOSE that if we declare war on the Arche Seleukeia that we prevent their access to the Island by building forts in which the Asiatic Allied army may defeat their besiegers.
I PROPOSE that if Pergamon is not in danger, that we liberate Sinope from pontic rule with the asiatic allied army
I PROPOSE the athenian army to conquer Bizantion so we have a bigger and more reinforcable front against the Barbaroi.
I PROPOSE the allied army to keep a watch over Aitolia, not letting Epeiros hold it for one second if they capture it.

~Jirisys (placeholder :daisy:es! :laugh4:)



"First allow me to welcome Leumenes back to the ekklesia, and give praise to Ποσειδῶν for granting him a safe journey.

Leumenes I AGREE to the following of your proposals:


I PROPOSE we defend the Basileion ton Pergamou if they cannot be able to do so themselves, even if that means declaring war against the Arche Seleukeia.
I PROPOSE the allied army to keep a watch over Aitolia, not letting Epeiros hold it for one second if they capture it.

And I AGREE with this proposal, as in I AGREE that we should build forts to block the Seleucid army's access to Mytilene:


I PROPOSE that if we declare war on the Arche Seleukeia that we prevent their access to the Island by building forts in which the Asiatic Allied army may defeat their besiegers.


The rest I do DISAGREE to I'm afraid, as they are either unrealistic - as in the case of the professional army raised at Lesbos, or not plausible at this time I think am neutral to. Just like you Leumenes I believe the Spartatai move to take Pella and Makedonia at this time was rather rash. In the same way I find that we should not move against Bysantion at this time, for now let us focus on Pyrrhos and how we should deal with him, should Thermon fall.

Also unrelated to this I must say that I am pleased that the Spartatai did not enslave the populace of Pella, though I would have been even more pleased had they decided not to expel portions of the population."

Arthouros handed the orator his proposals and was seated:

I PROPOSE that we appoint Eugenios Rhodios as the Governor of Rhodos, as the public order in Rhodos is not what it used to be.
I PROPOSE that we attack the army besieging Pergamon with the Athenian army
I PROPOSE that we reinforce the Alliance army with fresh troops and ask the Spartatai to help in doing so as well.
I PROPOSE that, if the Seleucids have taken Pergamon by the time the Athenian army gets there, we should liberate Pergamon and establish a Free Allied Kingdom (Type IV Government).

[jirisys]

And how do you expect a professional army to be recruited in Mytilene in the next 4 seasons? Please be more realistic.

Aren't we allowed to have multiple turn proposals?

Changes are made, shut up... :laugh4:

Thank you.


Friend, how is attacking an independent poleis (Bizantion) justifiable but the conquest of Pergamon, by anyone, is not?

Bizantion is an independent polis, not a Basileion, as Pergamon is, however in the meantime yes, I believe we should only do it if the Getae attack Pella, if not willing to join the Koinon, then we shall place forts in the region but not capture it, I will clarify my proposal more. Thank you.


I PROPOSE that we appoint Eugenios Rhodios as the Governor of Rhodos, as the public order in Rhodos is not what it used to be.
I PROPOSE that we attack the army besieging Pergamon with the Athenian army
I PROPOSE that we reinforce the Alliance army with fresh troops and ask the Spartatai to help in doing so as well.
I PROPOSE that, if the Seleucid's have taken Pergamon by the time the Athenian army gets there, we should liberate Pergamon and establish a Free Allied Kingdom (Type IV Government).

I AGREE with all four.

~Jirisys ()

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

As you've changed those to be long-term proposals I withdraw my disagreement.

And I've posted the "Sparte to reinforce alliance army proposal" at their council.

[Gaius Sempronius Gracchus]

"May I offer my congratulations to Eudamidas and Damasos for their great victory at Pella. I worried that many Spartan lives may be lost, but their leadership, and the skill and bravery of the Spartan warriors, overwhelmed the Macedonians. Now we have Pyrrhos at our borders, they will see Pella as theirs by right. I PROPOSE that we send a spy to ascertain the state of play in Bizantion.

I AGREE with Leuemenes' proposal that we defend the Basileion ton Pergamou if they cannot do so themselves, even if that means declaring war against the Arche Seleukeia. In addition, and in agreement with Populus Romanus' observation, I PROPOSE that we should do likewise with the city of Halikarnassos. If we are to be at war with the Arche Seleukia and, equally as inevitably, with Epiros, we should retain those independent states between us. At least until we are in a position to concentrate our forces there.

I AGREE also with the building of fortifications to aid in defending Lesbos from Seleucid aggression. The other Proposals of Leuemenes I must DISAGREE with.

I AGREE with Arthourus' proposals that we appoint Eugenios Rhodios as the Governor of Rhodos, as the public order in Rhodos is not what it used to be, that we attack the army besieging Pergamon with the Athenian army,that we reinforce the Alliance army with fresh troops and ask the Spartatai to help in doing so as well and that, if the Seleucid's have taken Pergamon by the time the Athenian army gets there, we should liberate Pergamon and establish a Free Allied Kingdom (Type IV Government).

I believe that we must come to some understanding as to the use of the Alliance army between Athens and Sparte. We must strengthen our own, Athenian army. I believe that, with the forthcoming conflicts we must have very mobile armies, in order to strengthen fronts when necessary.

With that in mind, Diomede, I will turn you suggestion into a proposal. I PROPOSE that we send the Atehenian army to protect Lesbos. Damasos shall lead the Second Spartan army in the defence of our northern frontier. Meanwhile the Alliance is to defend the mountain passes of Thessaly and the First Spartan army can patrol the northern bank of the Gulf of Corinth.

I PROPOSE that we train a couple of units of saboteurs and assassins in Athens, and train them for the purpose of undermining the holdings of our neighbours. When the time is right, for instance, we may use them to convince the people of Sinope to revolt, which will save our forces from having to take the city.

A time of great conflict looms on the horizon for our Koinon. Now is the time for greater co-operation between us."

[jirisys]

I AGREE with your proposals.

~Jirisys ()

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

Leumenes:

1. I PROPOSE that if we declare war on the Arche Seleukeia that we prevent their access to the Island (Mytilene?) by building forts

2. I PROPOSE the allied army to keep a watch over Aitolia, not letting Epeiros hold it for one second if they capture it.

3. I PROPOSE we defend the Basileion ton Pergamou if they cannot be able to do so themselves, even if that means declaring war against the Arche Seleukeia.

1. AGREE Arthouros, Demosthenes, Rahl

2. AGREE Arthouros DISAGREE Demosthenes

3. AGREE Arthouros, Demosthenes, Rahl


Leumenes Longterm proposals:

1. I PROPOSE we recruit an independent army ASAP in the next few years in Lesbos and to be independent of both the Spartan and Athenian wishes (meaning it can only build lvl IV govs. and the army, along with their captured cities are neutral to either poleis' causes.), only the polis who controls the strategos can give orders to it (I guess, if not just make the damned army). (LONG TERM PLAN)

2. I PROPOSE we recruit an allied general to lead the army (LONG TERM PLAN)

3. I PROPOSE that if Pergamon is not in danger, that we liberate Sinope from pontic rule with the independent allied army from the east. (LONG TERM PLAN)

4. I PROPOSE that if the Getae tribes wage war at us, the athenian army to conquer Bizantion so we have a bigger and more reinforcable front against the Barbaroi. (LONG TERM PLAN)

1. DISAGREE Rahl

2. DISAGREE Rahl

3. DISAGREE Rahl

4. DISAGREE Rahl

Arthouros:

1. I PROPOSE that we appoint Eugenios Rhodios as the Governor of Rhodos, as the public order in Rhodos is not what it used to be.

2. I PROPOSE that we attack the army besieging Pergamon with the Athenian army

3. I PROPOSE that we reinforce the Alliance army with fresh troops and ask the Spartatai to help in doing so as well.

4. I PROPOSE that, if the Seleucid's have taken Pergamon by the time the Athenian army gets there, we should liberate Pergamon and establish a Free Allied Kingdom (Type IV Government).

1. AGREE, Leumenes, Demosthenes, Rahl

2. AGREE, Leumenes, Demosthenes, Rahl

3. AGREE, Leumenes, Demosthenes, Rahl

4. AGREE, Leumenes, Demosthenes, Rahl


Demosthenes:


1. I PROPOSE that we send a spy to ascertain the state of play in Bizantion.

2. I PROPOSE that we should do likewise with the city of Halikarnassos. If we are to be at war with the Arche Seleukia and, equally as inevitably, with Epiros, we should retain those independent states between us. At least until we are in a position to concentrate our forces there.

3. I PROPOSE that we send the Athenian army to protect Lesbos. Damasos shall lead the Second Spartan army in the defence of our northern frontier. Meanwhile the Alliance is to defend the mountain passes of Thessaly and the First Spartan army can patrol the northern bank of the Gulf of Corinth.

4. I PROPOSE that we train a couple of units of saboteurs and assassins in Athens, and train them for the purpose of undermining the holdings of our neighbours. When the time is right, for instance, we may use them to convince the people of Sinope to revolt, which will save our forces from having to take the city.

5. "Just to ensure that all is done in good order. I PROPOSE that we strengthen the Athenian army, preferably with professional units."

1. AGREE Arthouros, Leumenes

2. AGREE Arthouros, Leumenes

3. AGREE Arthouros, Leumenes

4. AGREE Arthouros, Leumenes

5. AGREE Arthouros, Leumenes


Rahl:

I PROPOSE again that we should send scouts to the eastern half of Anatolia to find out how strong the pontic and seleucid forces in Mikra Asia are and if Trazpezous is secure or also must fear occupation like Sinope and Nikaia.


AGREE Demosthenes, Leumenes, Arthouros

[Rahl]

"Arthorous speaks wise words and I agree with all he said.
What means that I AGREE with the same 2 proposals of Leumenes:

I PROPOSE we defend the Basileion ton Pergamou if they cannot be able to do so themselves, even if that means declaring war against the Arche Seleukeia.
I PROPOSE the allied army to keep a watch over Aitolia, not letting Epeiros hold it for one second if they capture it.
And DISAGREE with all other of Leumenes proposals.
I also AGREE with all proposals made by Arthouros


I PROPOSE that we appoint Eugenios Rhodios as the Governor of Rhodos, as the public order in Rhodos is not what it used to be.
I PROPOSE that we attack the army besieging Pergamon with the Athenian army
I PROPOSE that we reinforce the Alliance army with fresh troops and ask the Spartatai to help in doing so as well.
I PROPOSE that, if the Seleucids have taken Pergamon by the time the Athenian army gets there, we should liberate Pergamon and establish a Free Allied Kingdom (Type IV Government).
I PROPOSE again that we should send scouts to the eastern half of Anatolia to find out how strong the pontic and seleucid forces in Mikra Asia are and if Trazpezous is secure or also must fear occupation like Sinope and Nikaia.

[Gaius Sempronius Gracchus]

"Just to ensure that all is done in good order. I PROPOSE that we strengthen the Athenian army, preferably with professional units."

[Gaius Sempronius Gracchus]

I PROPOSE again that we should send scouts to the eastern half of Anatolia to find out how strong the pontic and seleucid forces in Mikra Asia are and if Trazpezous is secure or also must fear occupation like Sinope and Nikaia.

I AGREE with this proposal.

[jirisys]

"Arthorous speaks wise words and I agree with all he said.
What means that I AGREE with the same 2 proposals of Leumenes:

And DISAGREE with all other of Leumenes proposals.
I also AGREE with all proposals made by Arthouros

I PROPOSE again that we should send scouts to the eastern half of Anatolia to find out how strong the pontic and seleucid forces in Mikra Asia are and if Trazpezous is secure or also must fear occupation like Sinope and Nikaia.


"Just to ensure that all is done in good order. I PROPOSE that we strengthen the Athenian army, preferably with professional units."

I AGREE with your proposals

~Jirisys (unlike you :laugh4:)

[Gaius Sempronius Gracchus]

I AGREE with your proposals

~Jirisys (unlike you :laugh4:)

Because you have made it clear that they are long term proposals, I would also like to withdraw my opposition to them. Though I am not skilled in the art of crossing through, as other appear to be.

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

I AGREE to ALL recent proposals by Demosthenes, and Rahls proposal.

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

Leumenes:

1. I PROPOSE that if we declare war on the Arche Seleukeia that we prevent their access to the Island (Mytilene?) by building forts

2. I PROPOSE the allied army to keep a watch over Aitolia, not letting Epeiros hold it for one second if they capture it.

3. I PROPOSE we defend the Basileion ton Pergamou if they cannot be able to do so themselves, even if that means declaring war against the Arche Seleukeia.

1. AGREE Arthouros, Demosthenes, Rahl

2. AGREE Arthouros DISAGREE Demosthenes

3. AGREE Arthouros, Demosthenes, Rahl


Leumenes Longterm proposals:

1. I PROPOSE we recruit an independent army ASAP in the next few years in Lesbos and to be independent of both the Spartan and Athenian wishes (meaning it can only build lvl IV govs. and the army, along with their captured cities are neutral to either poleis' causes.), only the polis who controls the strategos can give orders to it (I guess, if not just make the damned army). (LONG TERM PLAN)

2. I PROPOSE we recruit an allied general to lead the army (LONG TERM PLAN)

3. I PROPOSE that if Pergamon is not in danger, that we liberate Sinope from pontic rule with the independent allied army from the east. (LONG TERM PLAN)

4. I PROPOSE that if the Getae tribes wage war at us, the athenian army to conquer Bizantion so we have a bigger and more reinforcable front against the Barbaroi. (LONG TERM PLAN)

1. DISAGREE Rahl

2. DISAGREE Rahl

3. DISAGREE Rahl

4. DISAGREE Rahl

Arthouros:

1. I PROPOSE that we appoint Eugenios Rhodios as the Governor of Rhodos, as the public order in Rhodos is not what it used to be.

2. I PROPOSE that we attack the army besieging Pergamon with the Athenian army

3. I PROPOSE that we reinforce the Alliance army with fresh troops and ask the Spartatai to help in doing so as well.

4. I PROPOSE that, if the Seleucid's have taken Pergamon by the time the Athenian army gets there, we should liberate Pergamon and establish a Free Allied Kingdom (Type IV Government).

1. AGREE, Leumenes, Demosthenes, Rahl

2. AGREE, Leumenes, Demosthenes, Rahl

3. AGREE, Leumenes, Demosthenes, Rahl

4. AGREE, Leumenes, Demosthenes, Rahl


Demosthenes:


1. I PROPOSE that we send a spy to ascertain the state of play in Bizantion.

2. I PROPOSE that we should do likewise with the city of Halikarnassos. If we are to be at war with the Arche Seleukia and, equally as inevitably, with Epiros, we should retain those independent states between us. At least until we are in a position to concentrate our forces there.

3. I PROPOSE that we send the Athenian army to protect Lesbos. Damasos shall lead the Second Spartan army in the defence of our northern frontier. Meanwhile the Alliance is to defend the mountain passes of Thessaly and the First Spartan army can patrol the northern bank of the Gulf of Corinth.

4. I PROPOSE that we train a couple of units of saboteurs and assassins in Athens, and train them for the purpose of undermining the holdings of our neighbours. When the time is right, for instance, we may use them to convince the people of Sinope to revolt, which will save our forces from having to take the city.

5. "Just to ensure that all is done in good order. I PROPOSE that we strengthen the Athenian army, preferably with professional units."

1. AGREE Arthouros, Leumenes

2. AGREE Arthouros, Leumenes

3. AGREE Arthouros, Leumenes

4. AGREE Arthouros, Leumenes

5. AGREE Arthouros, Leumenes


Rahl:

I PROPOSE again that we should send scouts to the eastern half of Anatolia to find out how strong the pontic and seleucid forces in Mikra Asia are and if Trazpezous is secure or also must fear occupation like Sinope and Nikaia.


AGREE Demosthenes, Leumenes, Arthouros

[Molinaargh]

This session is over, thank you.


Special thanks to Arthur, king of the Britons for compiling the proposals!

[jirisys]

:laugh4:
"Arthorous speaks wise words and I agree with all he said.
What means that I AGREE with the same 2 proposals of Leumenes:

And DISAGREE with all other of Leumenes proposals.
I also AGREE with all proposals made by Arthouros

I PROPOSE again that we should send scouts to the eastern half of Anatolia to find out how strong the pontic and seleucid forces in Mikra Asia are and if Trazpezous is secure or also must fear occupation like Sinope and Nikaia.


"Just to ensure that all is done in good order. I PROPOSE that we strengthen the Athenian army, preferably with professional units."


Leumenes:

1. I PROPOSE that if we declare war on the Arche Seleukeia that we prevent their access to the Island (Mytilene?) by building forts

2. I PROPOSE the allied army to keep a watch over Aitolia, not letting Epeiros hold it for one second if they capture it.

3. I PROPOSE we defend the Basileion ton Pergamou if they cannot be able to do so themselves, even if that means declaring war against the Arche Seleukeia.

1. AGREE Arthouros, Demosthenes, Rahl

2. AGREE Arthouros DISAGREE Demosthenes

3. AGREE Arthouros, Demosthenes, Rahl


Leumenes Longterm proposals:

1. I PROPOSE we recruit an independent army ASAP in the next few years in Lesbos and to be independent of both the Spartan and Athenian wishes (meaning it can only build lvl IV govs. and the army, along with their captured cities are neutral to either poleis' causes.), only the polis who controls the strategos can give orders to it (I guess, if not just make the damned army). (LONG TERM PLAN)

2. I PROPOSE we recruit an allied general to lead the army (LONG TERM PLAN)

3. I PROPOSE that if Pergamon is not in danger, that we liberate Sinope from pontic rule with the independent allied army from the east. (LONG TERM PLAN)

4. I PROPOSE that if the Getae tribes wage war at us, the athenian army to conquer Bizantion so we have a bigger and more reinforcable front against the Barbaroi. (LONG TERM PLAN)

1. DISAGREE Rahl

2. DISAGREE Rahl

3. DISAGREE Rahl

4. DISAGREE Rahl

Arthouros:

1. I PROPOSE that we appoint Eugenios Rhodios as the Governor of Rhodos, as the public order in Rhodos is not what it used to be.

2. I PROPOSE that we attack the army besieging Pergamon with the Athenian army

3. I PROPOSE that we reinforce the Alliance army with fresh troops and ask the Spartatai to help in doing so as well.

4. I PROPOSE that, if the Seleucid's have taken Pergamon by the time the Athenian army gets there, we should liberate Pergamon and establish a Free Allied Kingdom (Type IV Government).

1. AGREE, Leumenes, Demosthenes, Rahl

2. AGREE, Leumenes, Demosthenes, Rahl

3. AGREE, Leumenes, Demosthenes, Rahl

4. AGREE, Leumenes, Demosthenes, Rahl


Demosthenes:


1. I PROPOSE that we send a spy to ascertain the state of play in Bizantion.

2. I PROPOSE that we should do likewise with the city of Halikarnassos. If we are to be at war with the Arche Seleukia and, equally as inevitably, with Epiros, we should retain those independent states between us. At least until we are in a position to concentrate our forces there.

3. I PROPOSE that we send the Athenian army to protect Lesbos. Damasos shall lead the Second Spartan army in the defence of our northern frontier. Meanwhile the Alliance is to defend the mountain passes of Thessaly and the First Spartan army can patrol the northern bank of the Gulf of Corinth.

4. I PROPOSE that we train a couple of units of saboteurs and assassins in Athens, and train them for the purpose of undermining the holdings of our neighbours. When the time is right, for instance, we may use them to convince the people of Sinope to revolt, which will save our forces from having to take the city.

5. "Just to ensure that all is done in good order. I PROPOSE that we strengthen the Athenian army, preferably with professional units."

1. AGREE Arthouros, Leumenes

2. AGREE Arthouros, Leumenes

3. AGREE Arthouros, Leumenes

4. AGREE Arthouros, Leumenes

5. AGREE Arthouros, Leumenes


Rahl:

I PROPOSE again that we should send scouts to the eastern half of Anatolia to find out how strong the pontic and seleucid forces in Mikra Asia are and if Trazpezous is secure or also must fear occupation like Sinope and Nikaia.


AGREE Demosthenes, Leumenes, Arthouros

RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:furious3: *shakes fist* :smg: :rifle: ~:pissed:

~Jirisys (:laugh4:)

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

This session is over, thank you.


Special thanks to Arthur, king of the Britons for compiling the proposals!

:bow:


@jirisys :P

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

Arthouros rose and spoke:

"In advance of the party elections I nominate myself as party leader for the Hellas Party. I do not do this out of disagreement with his policies, ideas or the manner he leads the party, but rather because I believe rotation of power - even within political parties, is to be sought after in a democracy. I also NOMINATE myself for the post of Epistates in advance of the elections.

Why should you choose me? Because I have to this point always worked for the good of Athenai and by extension our Koinon, and I will keep doing so till the day I go to Hades"


~Arthouros

[jirisys]

I AGREE with your nomination.

~Jirisys ()

[Molinaargh]

Year 516 (260 BC)
No Time for Peace



Athenian orders:
-Strengthen the Athenian army, preferably with professional units. (Yes)
-Defend Pergamon from the Seleukids. Attack the army besieging Pergamon with the Athenian army. (Yes)
-If the Seleucid's have taken Pergamon by the time the Athenian army gets there, we should liberate Pergamon and establish a Free Allied Kingdom (Type IV Government). (No, Seleukids didn't take it)
-Send the Athenian army to protect Lesbos. (Yes)
-Reinforce the Alliance army with fresh troops and ask the Spartatai to help in doing so as well. (Yes)
-Appoint Eugenios Rhodios as the Governor of Rhodos, as the public order in Rhodos is not what it used to be. (Yes)
-Send a spy to ascertain the state of play in Bizantion. Do likewise with the city of Halikarnassos. (Yes)
-Train a couple of units of saboteurs and assassins in Athens, and train them for the purpose of undermining the holdings of our neighbours. When the time is right, for instance, we may use them to convince the people of Sinope to revolt, which will save our forces from having to take the city. (Assassin trained)
-Send scouts to the eastern half of Anatolia to find out how strong the pontic and seleucid forces in Mikra Asia are and if Trazpezous is secure or also must fear occupation like Sinope and Nikaia. (Yes)
-Alliance Army to have a defensive position in Thessaly. (Yes)

Spartan orders:
-Retrain both Spartan armies. (Yes)
-Prepare to assault Thermon as soon as an assault is made by the Epirotes. The victor should be badly weakened, whilst our army will be freshly retrained and the alliance army may choose to assist. (No - read update)
-Construct better barracks at Sparte to recruit phalangitai. (Not yet - barracks extremely expensive)
-Keep Damasos and his army in Pella. Any Spartan soldiers not needed to defend Pella to be moved to Demetrias, either to assist the Alliance army or to reinforce the Spartan army once Thermon is taken. (Yes)
-Improve public order in Korinthos and Rhodos. (Yes)



https://img109.imageshack.us/img109/671/001wwu.jpg
Pyrrhos didn't even wait for the snow to melt before assaulting Thermon. The Basileos of Epeiros attacked the independent polis right away.

https://img511.imageshack.us/img511/2778/002gtk.jpg
He somehow managed to conquer it without taking heavy losses. In fact, he barely lost any men during the siege. It was even reported his elephants were still alive after the assault.

https://img89.imageshack.us/img89/7090/003qkh.jpg
The Royal Army of Epeiros moved out of the city soon after the end of the siege, but Pyrrhos himself stayed. Perhaps he thought he was too old to lead armies, or the Oracle of Delphi advised him to stay. The reasons are unknown. Fact is, he gave command of his army to his son, Alexandros Aiakides, an able commander himself.

https://img810.imageshack.us/img810/2760/004qfe.jpg
The Spartan Army had been ordered to attack Thermon if the winner of the siege was weak, whether that was Pyrrhos or the men of Thermon. Since the result was unexpected - a victory with few losses for Pyrrhos - all the Spartans could do was reinforce the borders and wait for new orders from the Council.

https://img97.imageshack.us/img97/1010/005btj.jpg
Damasos was establishing himself as the Tyrannos of Makedonia, and sent any men he didn't require to support the Alliance Army, which had been weakened by the battles in Lesbos.

https://img135.imageshack.us/img135/2645/005vbs.jpg


https://img823.imageshack.us/img823/9489/006bcd.jpg
More men were recruited all over the Koinon to supply the Alliance and the polis armies with extra troops.

https://img696.imageshack.us/img696/7292/007yx.jpg
This included heavier cavalry from Lakonia.

https://img200.imageshack.us/img200/5018/009xp.jpg
Meanwhile, the Athenian Army left Hellas to defend Lesbos and do some offense as well. The target was the Seleukid army besieging Pergamon.

https://img714.imageshack.us/img714/5072/009bjc.jpg
Chremonides landed in Lesbos with a good force of light hoplites, experienced cavalry and over a hundred skirmishers.

https://img28.imageshack.us/img28/425/010vmu.jpg
He marched towards Pergamon to break the Seleukid siege. Spear blows would be the Athenian declaration of war.

https://img202.imageshack.us/img202/6379/011jl.jpg
The opposing army was commanded by two Syrian men loyal to the Seleukid dynasty.

https://img153.imageshack.us/img153/4439/012dk.jpg


https://img135.imageshack.us/img135/2372/013oi.jpg
Chremonides had hired a few heavily armored Thesallian riders in Lesbos. They'd prove to be essential to the Athenians.

https://img18.imageshack.us/img18/3200/014gab.jpg


https://img824.imageshack.us/img824/5677/015xr.jpg


https://img841.imageshack.us/img841/7269/016bu.jpg


https://img109.imageshack.us/img109/1838/017sm.jpg


https://img52.imageshack.us/img52/5724/018uno.jpg


https://img121.imageshack.us/img121/4408/019yk.jpg


https://img228.imageshack.us/img228/3640/020pan.jpg
"Excuse me, Seleukids. I believe your phalanx is pointing at the wrong direction."

https://img703.imageshack.us/img703/2313/021mj.jpg


https://img217.imageshack.us/img217/2839/022jac.jpg


https://img205.imageshack.us/img205/9301/023bwg.jpg
Pergamon was relieved of the siege. Chremonides entered talks with the Basileos of Pergamon about the polis becoming a part of the Koinon.

https://img43.imageshack.us/img43/70/024kz.jpg
Further south (and a little bit west), a Koinon diplomatic mission arrived in Kyrene.

https://img39.imageshack.us/img39/6231/025wx.jpg
The polis was an independent one, but Ptolemaic armies threatened its independence.

https://img826.imageshack.us/img826/249/026fr.jpg
A full report on the polis was written for the councilors of the Koinon.

https://img163.imageshack.us/img163/3556/027oqq.jpg
When the Athenian Fleet was returning to Hellas, pirate ships tried to intercept it.

https://img684.imageshack.us/img684/1/028kq.jpg
Admiral Philon, a young naval commander, defeated the enemy.

https://img819.imageshack.us/img819/2965/029ca.jpg


https://img21.imageshack.us/img21/5662/030vt.jpg
Other espionage reports were also written: on Byzantion...

https://img683.imageshack.us/img683/4948/031cq.jpg
...and Halikarnassos.

https://img828.imageshack.us/img828/1716/032xi.jpg
In that year, Doros and Akrotatos both competed in the Olympiakoi Agones.

https://img202.imageshack.us/img202/1443/033jt.jpg
Chremonides, the great Athenian strategos and administrator, died while in talks with Pergamon. The possibility of the polis joining the Koinon died with him.

https://img837.imageshack.us/img837/5240/034tm.jpg
Doros inherited him, while Akrotatos won in the games.

https://img843.imageshack.us/img843/6599/035ee.jpg
With the death of Chremonides, the Athenian Army returned to Mytilene to await new orders - and a new commander.

https://img607.imageshack.us/img607/8555/036t.jpg
Eugenios Rhodos, the last person who would like to command the Athenian (or any) army, returned to his home island and became the governor of the polis. He had stayed for 3 years studying in Athens.

https://img204.imageshack.us/img204/2024/037aoe.jpg


https://img809.imageshack.us/img809/2082/038jh.jpg
Further east in Anatolia, Sinope was still under Pontic rule. More reports on the eastern situation should arrive in the following years.

https://img715.imageshack.us/img715/9773/039ni.jpg
Akrotatos had a second daughter, Chiore.

https://img130.imageshack.us/img130/7835/040iz.jpg
A festival was held in Korinthos, and in Demetrias the stone walls were completed.

https://img27.imageshack.us/img27/4461/041za.jpg
In Athenai, citizens of disputable honor were hired to work for the Koinon.

https://img16.imageshack.us/img16/8819/044vh.jpg
The most aggravating of news came with the winter. Epeiros betrayed its alliance with the Koinon Hellenon, and marched against its former ally.

https://img171.imageshack.us/img171/4374/045th.jpg
The Royal Army, under command of Alexandros Aiakides, son of Pyrrhos, besieged Pella. It seems the epeirotes wanted the title of Basileos ton Makedonia for themselves. Damasos was still garrisoned in the city with the 2nd Spartan Army and his imaginary crown.

https://img820.imageshack.us/img820/6861/046mx.jpg
The position of the Koinon to deal with this was a good one. The 1st Spartan Army was almost close enough to attack the Epeirotes before the winter ended, but not quite close enough. The Alliance Army was fully retrained in Demetrias, under Doros of Athenai.

https://img228.imageshack.us/img228/3161/047wxm.jpg
There was yet another war, though. The Seleukids were not going to take the Koinon's aid to Pergamon lightly, and soon their armies should march towards Lesbos. The Hellenes were now at war in two fronts.

https://img96.imageshack.us/img96/7357/048yf.jpg
Political and military situation of the Koinon by the end of 516 (260 BC).




https://img256.imageshack.us/img256/3039/athens.png
Please wait until the election results before bossing the Alliance Army around! We don't know who will be the new Strategos. And please vote in the elections, an elections update will be made below this one.

[Molinaargh]

KOINON ELECTIONS - 260 BC


https://img135.imageshack.us/img135/9227/electionsa.jpg

State of the Alliance:

https://img823.imageshack.us/img823/1425/poleis260.jpg

Offices:

https://img708.imageshack.us/img708/6361/officesonlyb260.jpg

Candidates:

https://img525.imageshack.us/img525/3374/athe1.jpg
https://img59.imageshack.us/img59/6530/athenssmall.png

https://img87.imageshack.us/img87/350/athe2.jpg
https://img59.imageshack.us/img59/6530/athenssmall.png

https://img690.imageshack.us/img690/5309/spar1.jpg
https://img819.imageshack.us/img819/3720/spartasmall.png

https://img708.imageshack.us/img708/5391/spar2.jpg
https://img819.imageshack.us/img819/3720/spartasmall.png

https://img10.imageshack.us/img10/6180/spar3d.jpg
https://img819.imageshack.us/img819/3720/spartasmall.png


Here in Athenai, one Athenian candidate must be nominated to the position of Strategos and another to the position of Hegemon.

Doros may run for Strategos again as he wasn't elected in the first time, he became Strategos due to the death of Areus. In this way, there are no restrictions to who may run for what, except that Athenians must nominate Athenians.

From now own, elections will happen every 5 years (so the next one will be in 255 BC and so on).

Please vote! :thumbsup:

[jirisys]

Leumenes arrived in a horse, not rushing, he took his time and was calm, he was now 28, with a wife and expecting a child, he was more mature now, yet he was still young, and abitious for this Koinon, he had become a great Scholarchos and was elected thrice in a short period. Yet he felt the loss of his former job as Somatophylakes, he sometimes joined the allied army, but only for visit, as Doros did not need more somatophylakai, yet he was pleased he asked to be one. He stepped up to the orator's stand and while the Boule was quiet but with slight chit chat.

"My men, situation is dire, we regret the death of one of the most important men in the Koinon. Chremonides was a great man, and an excellent commander (Demetrias), we should make a great Euology and build a statue on Athenai, conmemorating his death, and his great life (as it was done historically). We are in tough times, yet we can easily overcome it. But first things first, we must elect our representatives.

"I, firstly, NOMINATE Doros as Strategos and Eugenios as Hegemon. He has proven to be an excellent commander (Lesbos) and could organize the whole Koinon in a matter of months without even having any idea he was going to be a Strategos. Eigenios is a Rhodian, prime man for affairs of economy, and a great Emporiaches, he is a great man to be in charge of our economia."

He stepped down from the orator's stand to his seat, and while still standing, he said:

"In other matters, I would also like SUPPORT my friend Arthouros as the Prytaneis of the Party of the Free and United men of Hellas. He is a wise man, and I would like for everyone to voice their opinions in this party for all our benefit. May Zeus bless us all Hellenos."

~Jirisys (You called selukids "makedonians" lol! :laugh4:)

[Molinaargh]

(You called selukids "makedonians" lol! :laugh4:)
Oops, too used to fighting the Makedon phalanxes :embarassed: :laugh4:

In a way they are Makedones, aren't they? :thinking:

[jirisys]

Oops, too used to fighting the Makedon phalanxes :embarassed: :laugh4:

In a way they are Makedones, aren't they? :thinking:

You just called the grandson of the man who was killed by the other man who is the father of another man, a relative of that another man...

~Jirisys (i.e. Antigonos Gonatas, Antigonos Monopthalmus, Seleukos Nikator, Antiochios Soter)

[Biowulf]

This AAR is too much fun not to participate in :)

I SUPPORT the nominations of Doros as Strategos and Eugenios as Hegemon. Doros has done well by the Athenians in times of peril and I feel he has the potential for so much more should he be elected. Eugenios is a Rhodian and his natural talents for economics will do only good things for the alliance.

[Gaius Sempronius Gracchus]

"I believe that we have a slight problem, in terms of nominating Doros as Strategos. While I have no doubt of his ability to lead the army of the alliance, with the sad passing of Chremonides who would lead the Athenian army if Doros leads the Alliance army? I AGREE with the nomination of Eugenios as Hegemon, but I must withhold my support for Doros as Strategos. Simply because we need his guidance for the Athenian army; Eugenios is, it seems, not a man of war, and his presence is, I believe, required in Rhodos."

[Rahl]

"I believe that we have a slight problem, in terms of nominating Doros as Strategos. While I have no doubt of his ability to lead the army of the alliance, with the sad passing of Chremonides who would lead the Athenian army if Doros leads the Alliance army? I AGREE with the nomination of Eugenios as Hegemon, but I must withhold my support for Doros as Strategos. Simply because we need his guidance for the Athenian army; Eugenios is, it seems, not a man of war, and his presence is, I believe, required in Rhodos."
Immediatly after this speech Rahl stood up to say his opinion about this topic:
"I understand your fear that nobody will lead the Athenian because there are not many man we could chose for this task. But wouldn't it be better to have one great force in form of the Alliance army or at least that of the Polemarchos than just the small army a simple commander is allowed to lead?
This is why I AGREE with the nomination of Doros as Strategos and Eugenios as Hegemon.
That's all I will say for now, since I'm still mourning for Chremonides and wouldn't have said a word if the elections were not near.

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

"I, firstly, NOMINATE Doros as Strategos and Eugenios as Hegemon. He has proven to be an excellent commander (Lesbos) and could organize the whole Koinon in a matter of months without even having any idea he was going to be a Strategos. Eigenios is a Rhodian, prime man for affairs of economy, and a great Emporiaches, he is a great man to be in charge of our economia."

I AGREE with these nominations.

[Molinaargh]

I believe there will be no update today due to the Koinon elections. The Athenian candidates are pretty much chosen, but the Spartan nominees are still undecided.

After the elections are over we will still need time for the polis session (for proposals to be made and agreed/disagreed), and the current situation requires time for discussion.

Keep voting!

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

He now has much influence in the Athenian assembly (if any you guys have suggestions for what privileges the office of Epistates can give, let me know).



Regarding the role of the Epistates

from wikipedia (and yeah I know they are not always to be trusted):

"An epistates (Greek: ἐπιστάτης) in ancient Greece was any sort of superintendent or overseer. In Hellenistic kingdoms generally, an epistates is always connected with a subject district (a regional assembly), where the epistates, a resident representative, exercised control and collected taxes on behalf of the king."

So perhaps deciding taxation levels in Athenai (possibly other cities closely allied to us like Chalkis kai Rhodos?)?


Maybe if there is a tie on a proposal, the vote of the epistates is decisive.

So I wonder, what privileges does the Epistates have?

[Molinaargh]

So I wonder, what privileges does the Epistates have?
That ended up being undecided. Perhaps his agreement/disagreement in the council session could count for 2 (which is a bit like fireblade suggested).

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

Oh okay, sounds good.


edit:

https://img823.imageshack.us/img823/1425/poleis260.jpg

Sorry, this is just me being silly/stupid and nitpicking but shouldn't Chalkis be under as much Athenai influence as Kydonia? :idea2: Both are Democratic Kleroucheia/Type II. Perhaps you could move the Chalkis image directly above the Kydonia image? Thanks.

(and this suggestion is of course only for future Poleis influence summations)

[Greenlizard0.]

This AAR is too much fun not to participate in :)

I SUPPORT the nominations of Doros as Strategos and Eugenios as Hegemon. Doros has done well by the Athenians in times of peril and I feel he has the potential for so much more should he be elected. Eugenios is a Rhodian and his natural talents for economics will do only good things for the alliance.

I AGREE with this nominations. Eugenios wil be the most neutral (as he is from Rhodos) Hegemon. Doros, on the other hand, had comanded the Koinon armies wel, in his time as Strategous.

[Molinaargh]

https://img227.imageshack.us/img227/9021/koinonsymbol.png
Koinon Elections of Demetrias - 516 (260 BC)


After each council nominated their candidates, representatives from all poleis of the Koinon gathered in one of the Alliance's cities to hold the elections. The polis chosen for the meeting of 516 (260 BC) was Demetrias.

The Spartans arrived in Demetrias presenting their candidates: Akrotatos for Strategos and Damasos for Hegemon. Akrotatos had been Hegemon since the beginning of the Koinon and was now going to try for a military position. Damasos was the Tyrannos of Pella and a newcomer to the Spartan royal family.

The Athenian candidate for Strategos presented himself: Doros, who was already in the polis commanding the Alliance Army as the replacement Strategos. The candidate for Hegemon, Eugenios, stayed in Rhodes due to his governmental duties, but was delighted to be nominated.

The event lasted 3 days, time spent between arguing why "my candidate is better than yours", "my polis is greater than yours" and "my... nevermind is bigger than yours", as well as discussing Koinon legislation.

In the third day the votes were counted, and the results announced:


https://img193.imageshack.us/img193/6751/resultsoffices.jpg
Doros Aithalidos Attikos, of Athenai, is now Strategos of the Koinon.
Eugenios Rhodios, of Rhodos, ally of Athenai, is now Hegemon.
Akrotatos Agiados Lakedaimonios, of Sparta, is the new Polemarchos.


Perhaps many variables turned the election in Doros's favor: his good term as the substitute Strategos, the death of his father, his victorious military history, the fact that he had an entire army in the polis... or perhaps it was just luck.

The election of Eugenios wasn't as surprising. Things could've gone either way, and Eugenios came out victorious.

If anyone is wondering how the elections are decided, I explain it in the first post, and this is how this one went:

I write down the candidates each council chose, together with their total stats (command+influence for Strategos, management+influence for Hegemon)

STRATEGOS:

-Akrotatos (9)
-Doros (2)

Then I sum the stats of both candidates to get a max number. This will be the max number to get a random number from.

Max number = 11

I write down with which random number each candidate wins. This is decided by their total stats.

1,2 = Doros
3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11 = Akrotatos

Then I sort the random number from 1 to 11. If the random number turns out to be 1 or 2, Doros wins. If it's a number between 3 and 11, Akrotatos wins.

Random number = 1

Doros wins!

Same thing for Hegemon!

HEGEMON:

-Damasos (3)
-Eugenios (3)

Max number = 6

1,2,3 = Damasos
4,5,6 = Eugenios

Random number = 6

Eugenios wins!

I get the random number from random.org, like this:
https://img148.imageshack.us/img148/1371/resultsrandomnumbers.jpg



https://img256.imageshack.us/img256/3039/athens.png
With these good news, the Athenian Council must now decide what actions will be taken in the next year.

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

"Fellow Athenoi this is simply splendid! We now hold not only the office of Strategos, but also Hegemon. But these are not the times to reveal in our in glory, as Pyrrhos have broken his promises and his forces are laying siege to our Spartatai allies in Pella.

I PROPOSE that we attack the Eperiotai army besieging Pella at once with the Alliance army and ask the Spartatai send their First Army to Pella as well. If we act quickly and with finesse we might destroy the Eperiotai Royal army, which leaves their homelands, and Thermon open for a counter attack.

I PROPOSE that should the outcome of the Battle of Pella be favourable (i.e. we win), that we send the Alliance Army to Ambrakia.

I also PROPOSE that we offer the Spartatai Thermon if they take it with their First Spartan army, and allow them to do as they please in regards of government there. This in exchange for not trying to take any Eperios homeland regions with their armies/Let the Alliance army take those Poleis"

(I will go and ask the Spartatai now, if they agree with their parts of these proposals)

[jirisys]

"Fellow Athenoi this is simply splendid! We now hold not only the office of Strategos, but also Hegemon. But these are not the times to reveal in our in glory, as Pyrrhos have broken his promises and his forces are laying siege to our Spartatai allies in Pella.

I PROPOSE that we attack the Eperiotai army besieging Pella at once with the Alliance army and ask the Spartatai send their First Army to Pella as well. If we act quickly and with finesse we might destroy the Eperiotai Royal army, which leaves their homelands, and Thermon open for a counter attack.

I PROPOSE that should the outcome of the Battle of Pella be favourable (i.e. we win), that we send the Alliance Army to Ambrakia.

I also PROPOSE that we offer the Spartatai Thermon if they take it with their First Spartan army, and allow them to do as they please in regards of government there. This in exchange for not trying to take any Eperios homeland regions with their armies/Let the Alliance army take those Poleis"

(I will go and ask the Spartatai now, if they agree with their parts of these proposals)

I AGREE with your proposal my Prytaneis.

~Jirisys ()

[Rahl]

"Fellow citizens of Athenai, after the sad news of the death of the great Chremonides the newest election of his son Doros as Strategos of the Koinon and our good friend Eugenios as Hegemon we have can be happy again. I know they will serve the Koinon well.
But we are facing an ordeal as we have 2 new dangerous enemies. Our high-priority concern should be to stop Epeiros and it's king Phyrrus. If he gains the crown of Makedonia we`ll be in trouble.

I PROPOSE that we send Doros with the Alliance army north to break the siege of Pella and if enough men are left after the battle drive the enemies back to their lands, follow them and siege Ambrakia to starve them out.
I PROPOSE that we ask the Spartiatai to attack and assault Thermon with their 1. army to drive the Epeirotes out of Aitolia and to kill the treacherous King Phyrrus.
With Eugenios as Hegemon we have more influence on the investments of the Koinion and thus I PROPOSE to order the building of the biggest port in Athenai and bigger ports in all cities where this is possible. Further I PROPOSE that we order the building of paved roads in Athenai, Korinth, Demetrias and Pella."

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

With Eugenios as Hegemon we have more influence on the investments of the Koinion and thus I PROPOSE to order the building of the biggest port in Athenai and bigger ports in all cities where this is possible. Further I PROPOSE that we order the building of paved roads in Athenai, Korinth, Demetrias and Pella."

AGREE with your first Proposal
DISAGREE to your second as I believe it to be to costly at this time.




I PROPOSE that we send Doros with the Alliance army north to break the siege of Pella and
I PROPOSE that we ask the Spartiatai to attack and assault Thermon with their 1. army to drive the Epeirotes out of Aitolia and to kill the treacherous King Phyrrus.

This I have already proposed/I'll turn that into an agreement with my proposals of identical nature? :)

I PROPOSE that we recruit professional troops in Athenai and send to reinforce the Athenian army at Mytilene.

I PROPOSE that we send our saboteur/assassin to the Eperiotai homelands to sabotage their Military Barracks.

[Gaius Sempronius Gracchus]

"I AGREE wholeheartedly with ALL of Arthouros' proposals."

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

Arthouros:

1. I PROPOSE that we attack the Eperiotai army besieging Pella at once with the Alliance army and ask the Spartatai send their First Army to Pella as well. If we act quickly and with finesse we might destroy the Eperiotai Royal army, which leaves their homelands, and Thermon open for a counter attack.

2. I PROPOSE that should the outcome of the Battle of Pella be favourable (i.e. we win), that we send the Alliance Army to Ambrakia.

3. I also PROPOSE that we offer the Spartatai Thermon if they take it with their First Spartan army, and allow them to do as they please in regards of government there. This in exchange for not trying to take any Eperios homeland regions with their armies/Let the Alliance army take those Poleis.

4. I PROPOSE that we recruit professional troops in Athenai and send to reinforce the Athenian army at Mytilene.

5. I PROPOSE that we send our saboteur/assassin to the Eperiotai homelands to sabotage their Military Barracks.



1. AGREE Leumenes, Rahl, Demosthenes

2. AGREE Leumenes, Rahl, Demosthenes

3. AGREE Leumenes, Demosthenes

4. AGREE, Demosthenes, Leumenes

5. AGREE, Demosthenes, Leumenes



Rahl:

1. I PROPOSE to order the building of the biggest port in Athenai and bigger ports in all cities where this is possible.

2. I PROPOSE that we order the building of paved roads in Athenai, Korinth, Demetrias and Pella.

1. AGREE Arthouros, Leumenes

2. DISAGREE Arthouros, Leumenes



~Arthouros

[jirisys]

AGREE with your first Proposal
DISAGREE to your second as I believe it to be to costly at this time.




This I have already proposed/I'll turn that into an agreement with my proposals of identical nature? :)

I PROPOSE that we recruit professional troops in Athenai and send to reinforce the Athenian army at Mytilene.

I PROPOSE that we send our saboteur/assassin to the Eperiotai homelands to sabotage their Military Barracks.

I have the SAME MOTIONS, so, Agree and Disagree with Rahl's and agree whole with yours.

~Jirisys (I guess you are the Prytaneis??? :dizzy2:)

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

~Jirisys (I guess you are the Prytaneis???

Not sure :shrug: , I think Molinaargh will post an update on the Athenai political situation pretty soon.

[Molinaargh]

Not sure :shrug: , I think Molinaargh will post an update on the Athenai political situation pretty soon.
Yes! I'll edit this post with an update to that later on.

In other (good!) news, I've managed to change the script as to allow a "civil war" to happen eventually. It allows me to play a turn as a faction and the next as another. I think splitting the generals and cities between the 2 factions should be easy with bribes and money cheats.

After more work than necessary (I tried modifying the genericScript first, and I wrote loooong scripts that didn't work well), I figured that all I had to do was add this to the main EB script:

monitor_event FactionTurnEnd FactionType greek_cities
console_command control thrace
end_monitor
;
monitor_event FactionTurnEnd FactionType thrace
console_command control greek_cities
end_monitor

It works, although not perfectly. Government buildings (the Type I, II, III... buildings) get 100% damaged in all cities each turn, and a new one is instantly built in the old one's place, which means that after 10 turns there will be 10 damaged government buildings in each settlement of the 2 factions. But if this causes trouble I can always demolish the damaged ones.

Another issue is that all settlements become "Local Autonomies", so the production is managed by the AI. This is a minor issue, since to fix this I just have to go to the faction overview screen and uncheck "Allow Total Local Autonomy". It just has to be done every turn, which is a bit annoying.

So yeah, a war between Athens and Sparta is a very real possibility for later in this AAR! :shocked:

Edit:

https://i.imgur.com/hULSd.jpg
Arthouros is the new Epistates of Athenai. The vote (agreement or disagreement) of the Epistates counts for 2.

[Walle]

Damn, I never thought it would be practically possible to simulate a civil war! I'm really looking forward to this!

[jirisys]

Damn, I never thought it would be practically possible to simulate a civil war! I'm really looking forward to this!

Not a regular of the Mini-mod and Gameplay guides are ye?

~Jirisys ()

[Sdragon]

Couldn't you just use custom battle with the two sides and disband casualties on the actual campaign. Can have yourself as a 3rd player and retreat and watch the two sides fight it out so that neither side benefits from having a brain.

[jirisys]

Couldn't you just use custom battle with the two sides and disband casualties on the actual campaign. Can have yourself as a 3rd player and retreat and watch the two sides fight it out so that neither side benefits from having a brain.

That too, MegasMethuselah did it...

~Jirisys ()

[Molinaargh]

Couldn't you just use custom battle with the two sides and disband casualties on the actual campaign.
That doesn't look as good as 2 separate factions. It works, true, but there's no reason for it since switching factions seems stable. Still a nice option if switching factions ends up not working.

Can have yourself as a 3rd player and retreat and watch the two sides fight it out so that neither side benefits from having a brain.
Yes, I'm still thinking how I'm gonna do battles. I'll probably play (and roleplay) them, it would be too much of a shame to not have battles (and battle screenshots!) at all.

[Biowulf]

I Disagree with Arthouros' second proposal. I don't think the Alliance Army is strong enough to face the entire Epeirote army alone. If we are to assault the Epeirote homelands it should be with the Spartiatai as backup.
I do Agree with the rest of his proposals.
I also Agree with all of Rahl's proposals as they make economic sense.

[Walle]

Not a regular of the Mini-mod and Gameplay guides are ye?

~Jirisys ()

Sure I knew it was theoretically possible, I just didn't think it would be practically possible. That it would work without screwing up anything else in the game. Like Molinaargh mentioned for example the problem with the government buildings and what not.

But you're right, I'm not too familiar with the mini-mods.

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

I Disagree with Arthouros' second proposal. I don't think the Alliance Army is strong enough to face the entire Epeirote army alone. If we are to assault the Epeirote homelands it should be with the Spartiatai as backup.
I do Agree with the rest of his proposals.
I also Agree with all of Rahl's proposals as they make economic sense.

... We will already (hopefully) have defeated their main force (only big army?) after the Battle of Pella, and for that Battle we/I have requested the Support of the First Spartiatai army. Their homelands do look quite vulnerable in this screenshot:

https://img96.imageshack.us/img96/7357/048yf.jpg

Just felt I should point out my reasoning. :wink:

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

Arthouros:

1. I PROPOSE that we attack the Eperiotai army besieging Pella at once with the Alliance army and ask the Spartatai send their First Army to Pella as well. If we act quickly and with finesse we might destroy the Eperiotai Royal army, which leaves their homelands, and Thermon open for a counter attack.

2. I PROPOSE that should the outcome of the Battle of Pella be favourable (i.e. we win), that we send the Alliance Army to Ambrakia.

3. I also PROPOSE that we offer the Spartatai Thermon if they take it with their First Spartan army, and allow them to do as they please in regards of government there. This in exchange for not trying to take any Eperios homeland regions with their armies/Let the Alliance army take those Poleis.

4. I PROPOSE that we recruit professional troops in Athenai and send to reinforce the Athenian army at Mytilene.

5. I PROPOSE that we send our saboteur/assassin to the Eperiotai homelands to sabotage their Military Barracks.



1. AGREE Leumenes, Rahl, Demosthenes, Biowulf

2. AGREE Leumenes, Rahl, Demosthenes, DISAGREE Biowulf

3. AGREE Leumenes, Demosthenes, Biowulf

4. AGREE, Demosthenes, Leumenes, Biowulf, Rahl

5. AGREE, Demosthenes, Leumenes, Biowulf, Rahl



Rahl:

1. I PROPOSE to order the building of the biggest port in Athenai and bigger ports in all cities where this is possible.

2. I PROPOSE that we order the building of paved roads in Athenai, Korinth, Demetrias and Pella.

1. AGREE Arthouros, Leumenes, Biowulf

2. AGREE Biowulf DISAGREE Arthouros, Leumenes



~Arthouros

[Populus Romanus]

Is it just me or does it seem like the Arche Athenaia is now illegitimate, seeing as it only has one member when the minimum is two?

[Molinaargh]

Is it just me or does it seem like the Arche Athenaia is now illegitimate, seeing as it only has one member when the minimum is two?
2 members are necessary to create a party. Nothing was said about parties ceasing to exist. Plus I like the symbol!

This session is now over. Expect an update later!

[Populus Romanus]

But Vaginalces can sort of cheat, seeing as he is guarunteed an Archonship every single cycle and therfore can have a better shot at the Epistates than anyone else.

[Rahl]

This I have already proposed/I'll turn that into an agreement with my proposals of identical nature? :)
I PROPOSE that we recruit professional troops in Athenai and send to reinforce the Athenian army at Mytilene.
I PROPOSE that we send our saboteur/assassin to the Eperiotai homelands to sabotage their Military Barracks.
Since I need some time for most posts and often need to ask my friend how to write something it happens that someone posts while I'm still writing. If one of my proposals matchs with an other, like this time, you can count it as an agreement.
I AGREE with both of your new proposals.



It works, although not perfectly. Government buildings (the Type I, II, III... buildings) get 100% damaged in all cities each turn, and a new one is instantly built in the old one's place, which means that after 10 turns there will be 10 damaged government buildings in each settlement of the 2 factions. But if this causes trouble I can always demolish the damaged ones.
I'm sure the script can be changed to stop this, though I don't know how since I don't have much experience with the script.


Another issue is that all settlements become "Local Autonomies", so the production is managed by the AI. This is a minor issue, since to fix this I just have to go to the faction overview screen and uncheck "Allow Total Local Autonomy". It just has to be done every turn, which is a bit annoying.
This should be solved by disabling the AI for both factions, just add 'console_command diable ai' to your script.

[Molinaargh]

Wow... next update is gonna take a while to format. It was a long year. Please be patient!

[Molinaargh]

259 BC


Athenian motions:
-Attack the Eperiotai army besieging Pella at once with the Alliance army and ask the Spartatai send their First Army to Pella as well. (Yes)
-If victorious, send the Alliance Army to Ambrakia.
-Recruit professional troops in Athenai and send to reinforce the Athenian army at Mytilene. (Yes)
-Send our saboteur/assassin to the Eperiotai homelands to sabotage their Military Barracks. (I forgot, sorry!)
-Order the building of the biggest port in Athenai and bigger ports in all cities where this is possible. (Yes)

Spartan motions:
-Send the 1st Spartan Army to march immediatly to Pella's aid. (Yes)
-After we lift the seige of Pella, march quickly into Pyrrus' lands. (Yes)
-Agree to leave Epeiros homeland regions neutral.
-Stronger Spartan army should move to take Ambrakia, while the weaker must take Thermon. (Yes)






The Epeirote Wars
https://img607.imageshack.us/img607/5245/motif.png


The year of 259 BC began with Eugenios Rhodios's first project as Hegemon. Advised by the Athenian Council, he ordered the construction of new ports all around the Koinon.


https://img535.imageshack.us/img535/5336/002msr.jpg


Nikanor, the second son of the Athenian Chremonides and brother of Doros, the current Strategos, began his education in the Academy of Athenai.


https://img200.imageshack.us/img200/3156/004hxn.jpg

He was an intelligent young man, but not very popular. Like his brother, he had nothing against barbarians or hellenes from different poleis. However, his personality was still to mature.

https://img33.imageshack.us/img33/4231/005ze.jpg

In Athenai, he witnessed the inauguration of new army barracks. The polis was now able to equip their men better, including heavier hoplites, cavalry, spearmen and hoplite phalanxes.


https://img534.imageshack.us/img534/3551/006wck.jpg


https://img69.imageshack.us/img69/2897/007wh.jpg

But this year wasn't marked by such events. It was the war against the Epeirotes that would go in history.

After an initial retreat by Alexandros Aiakides, commander of the Epeirote Royal Army and second son of Pyrrhos, Doros was confident he could win with the Alliance Army and the 2nd Spartan Army. Eudamidas and Akrotatos, then, led the 1st Spartan Army to the south of Ambrakia, the Epeirote capital.


https://img842.imageshack.us/img842/8756/008jn.jpg


To the northwest of Pella, the great battle between the Koinon Hellenon Army and the Epeirote Royal Army began.

https://img651.imageshack.us/img651/4680/009eu.jpg


The feared elephants of Pyrrhos were spotted in the battle.


https://img199.imageshack.us/img199/2744/012kej.jpg


https://img163.imageshack.us/img163/4053/013hyq.jpg


https://img205.imageshack.us/img205/7488/014ztq.jpg

The Spartan reinforcements arrived somewhat late, but still in time for the battle.

https://img163.imageshack.us/img163/6494/015mvz.jpg


https://img248.imageshack.us/img248/8677/016cm.jpg


https://img265.imageshack.us/img265/9391/017du.jpg

Although the elephants were effective, fire arrows and javelins eventually made them flee the battle, never to be seen again.

https://img40.imageshack.us/img40/5264/018gx.jpg


https://img16.imageshack.us/img16/530/020oei.jpg


https://img819.imageshack.us/img819/7639/021cd.jpg


https://img716.imageshack.us/img716/4207/023vtw.jpg

The death of Alexandros Aiakides made the entire Royal Army rout. They knew they had been defeated.

https://img826.imageshack.us/img826/6/024bi.jpg


https://img560.imageshack.us/img560/4760/025pg.jpg
"Waaait..."


https://img28.imageshack.us/img28/4025/026nq.jpg
"I'm not going there!"


https://img25.imageshack.us/img25/3829/027ene.jpg

Pella was safe for now, and the Royal Army was now a few hundred cowards in the mountains of Epeiros.

https://img26.imageshack.us/img26/4466/028uoz.jpg


Doros chased them down towards Ambrakia...

https://img840.imageshack.us/img840/8860/029gr.jpg

And caught them before they could return to their capital to regroup.


https://img148.imageshack.us/img148/1458/031pzs.jpg


https://img600.imageshack.us/img600/5717/032vi.jpg

Doros and the Alliance Army were now in the mountains of Epeiros, enemy territory.

https://img822.imageshack.us/img822/8028/033dq.jpg


https://img34.imageshack.us/img34/7645/034tu.jpg


https://img204.imageshack.us/img204/391/036qb.jpg


https://img821.imageshack.us/img821/5933/037tda.jpg


The sequence of victories was giving Doros confidence in his ability as a Strategos. He had become, he judged, as good as his father, and at a much younger age!

https://img40.imageshack.us/img40/8336/038wc.jpg


https://img830.imageshack.us/img830/8163/039al.jpg


The 2nd Spartan Army, commanded by Damasos, stayed in Pella to make sure no attacks would come from the north. Afterall, the Epeirotes had expanded their territory into barbarian land.

https://img822.imageshack.us/img822/5055/040qq.jpg


Reinforcements from Athenai arrived in Mytilene to defend the polis from Seleukid attacks. The Seleukids must have judged the island of Lesbos far too fortified and remained in a defensive position in Anatolia.

https://img806.imageshack.us/img806/2434/041ws.jpg


Doros continued marching towards Ambrakia with the intention of besieging the Epeirote capital. His scouts warned him that Ptolemaios Aiakides, the firstborn of Pyrrhos, was somewhere in the mountains, trying to get back to Ambrakia himself.

https://img691.imageshack.us/img691/1133/042wr.jpg


https://img715.imageshack.us/img715/6539/042aj.jpg


While Doros besieged Ambrakia, Akrotatos led the 1st Spartan Army south towards Thermon, were Pyrrhos was with a small garrison.

https://img35.imageshack.us/img35/470/043tv.jpg

But another battle would be fought by Doros of Athens. Some Epeirote Strategos named Lysias Zmarathaios, surely a barbarian from the north, attempted to break the siege. Pyrrichos Aiakides, grandson of Pyrrhos, left the city to fight.

https://img196.imageshack.us/img196/8008/044su.jpg


https://img826.imageshack.us/img826/4421/045bu.jpg

When Pyrrichos realized the battle was going in the Koinon's favor, he retreated back to the safety of Ambrakia's walls.

https://img511.imageshack.us/img511/4364/047xa.jpg


The Illyrian cavalry of the Epeirotes didn't do them any good, using their horses to leave the battle quickly instead of using them to fight.

https://img203.imageshack.us/img203/7357/048yf.jpg


Doros was too careless with his strong cavalry, losing many good horsemen.

https://img651.imageshack.us/img651/946/050oi.jpg


It was otherwise a great victory, perhaps one of the greatest the Koinon has ever witnessed.

https://img535.imageshack.us/img535/2311/051th.jpg

But the Epeirotes weren't done yet. The subjects of Pyrrhos desperately tried to break the siege of Ambrakia, believing this to be the key to surviving and perhaps turning the war to their favor.

https://img832.imageshack.us/img832/8625/052jh.jpg


https://img832.imageshack.us/img832/4484/053dg.jpg


This time the grandson wasn't able to escape back to safety.

https://img7.imageshack.us/img7/8821/054lt.jpg


https://img822.imageshack.us/img822/7898/055nq.jpg


https://img265.imageshack.us/img265/7847/057le.jpg

Meanwhile, the Spartans marching towards Thermon hired some reinforcements. They knew defeating Pyrrhos wouldn't be easy, so a hundred of gauls and another of cretan archers were incorporated in the Spartan troops.


When winter began once again, Doros still had Ambrakia under siege. The city had a pitiful garrison and would fall very soon.

In the south, near Thermon, the winter had forced the Spartan Army to camp for weeks. Akrotatos and his men were ready to intercept any attempt by Pyrrhos to retake his capital, but the Polemarchos would have to wait until the end of the winter to besiege the Epeirote Basileus's last stand.

https://img3.imageshack.us/img3/8227/063spx.jpg




https://img256.imageshack.us/img256/3039/athens.png
The time has come once again for the Athenians to decide the faith of their polis and armies, and lead the Koinon to victory.

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

Arthouros, now the Epistates of Athenai rose and spoke briefly:

"Athenoi! Our victories against the Eperiotai are truly extraordinary! With luck the Koinon Army will have seized Ambrakia by the end of the year. This coupled with the fact that the Spartiatai are besieging Thermon, where Pyrrhos currently resides almost guarantees that victory in this war will be ours."


Arthouros handed the orator his proposals to the ekklesia, and was seated.


I PROPOSE that upon taking Ambrakia, we should make it a Free Allied Kingdom (Type IV) and recruit a Client ruler. Also we should not enslave the population.

I PROPOSE that the Koinon army is to be reinforced.

I PROPOSE that the Koinon Army besiege Epidamnos and make it a Free Allied Kingdom (Type IV). Also we should not enslave the population.

I PROPOSE that we raise a 2nd Athenian Army in Athenai, comprised of professional troops.

I PROPOSE that Nikanor Attikos should command the 2nd Athenian Army.

I PROPOSE that we should not make peace with the Arche Seleukeia.

[Walle]

I AGREE with all of Arthouros' motions.

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

I AGREE with all of Arthouros' motions.

:bow:


@ Molinaargh:


Oh okay, sounds good.


edit:

https://img823.imageshack.us/img823/1425/poleis260.jpg

Sorry, this is just me being silly/stupid and nitpicking but shouldn't Chalkis be under as much Athenai influence as Kydonia? :idea2: Both are Democratic Kleroucheia/Type II. Perhaps you could move the Chalkis image directly above the Kydonia image? Thanks.

(and this suggestion is of course only for future Poleis influence summations)

Since you didn't respond to this (the quoted) post, I assume that you didn't see it.

Anyway I ask again: shouldn't Chalkis be under as much Athenoi influence as Kydonia?

[Biowulf]

I PROPOSE that upon taking Ambrakia, we should make it a Free Allied Kingdom (Type IV) and recruit a Client ruler. Also we should not enslave the population.

I PROPOSE that the Koinon army is to be reinforced.

I PROPOSE that the Koinon Army besiege Epidamnos and make it a Free Allied Kingdom (Type IV). Also we should not enslave the population.

I PROPOSE that we raise a 2nd Athenian Army in Athenai, comprised of professional troops.

I PROPOSE that Nikanor Attikos should command the 2nd Athenian Army.

I PROPOSE that we should not make peace with the Arche Seleukeia.

I Agree with all of Arthouros' proposals. Although I think it may be wiser to wait until Nikanor matures and his personality shows itself.

[Molinaargh]

Since you didn't respond to this (the quoted) post, I assume that you didn't see it.

Anyway I ask again: shouldn't Chalkis be under as much Athenoi influence as Kydonia?
Don't worry, I see everything! https://i.imgur.com/6lOD2.png (I had to make this smiley since the desired effect wasn't present among the existing smilies)

You're right, I'll fix it in the next elections (255 BC).

In other news, a new element, the Civil War Meter:


https://i.imgur.com/0GPjT.jpg
When the swords cross, civil war will begin and the Koinon will be divided.

The swords (and the colored bars) will move closer to each other when a polis takes an action that would increase tension between the alliance, such as taking a city for itself, banishing a foreigner from its Council, forbidding passage and other hostile actions.

The swords will move away from each other if conciliatory actions are taken, such as establishing neutral governments or other agreements between Athenai and Sparte.

It could happen that one of the cities takes hostile actions and the other one takes conciliatory actions, in which case civil war will be avoided for longer.

[Walle]

Holy sh*t that's cool! Btw, are type 3 governments classified as neutral?

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

I think only cities/poleis that are taken with the Alliance Army are completely neutral. I think that when taken by the Alliance army government types does not not affect neutrality. Whereas Government types affect neutrality when an Athenian or Spartan army takes a polis (for example if we had made Krete/Kydonia a Free Allied Kingdom we would still excerice some degree of influence, but not as much as we do with a Type II Government/Democratic Kleroucheia.

:shrug:

@ Molinaargh, Interesting!

[Molinaargh]

Holy sh*t that's cool! Btw, are type 3 governments classified as neutral?
That seems to be the general rule, but as we go farther from the hellenic homelands it becomes harder to measure neutrality by government type. I guess neutrality will have to be stated by the Council, example: "we conquered Thermon but it will remain neutral".

[Gaius Sempronius Gracchus]

"It is right and fitting that Arthouros be Epistates, he has shown himself a wise councillor to the Koinon. My congratulations to him, by the grace of Athena Pallas. I AGREE with all of his proposals. Though I note the discomfort of sending such a young man as Nikanor to lead the Athenian forces, needs must.

What grand progress our forces have made against the Epirote barbaroi, better than in even my wildest dreams. What this Koinon can achieve is near boundless, I hope that everyone can see what our unity does for the benefit of each individual polis, how as one we are stronger than any enemy."

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

Arthouros spoke, though he had little to say:

"Thank you Demosthenes for your kind words, I only hope that I may be as just and wise a Epistates as you were. And before I sit down once again I must say that I too realize that Nikanor is young and perhaps a tad un-experienced, but it will take time for the 2nd Athenian Army to be raised, and during that time he can direct his energies towards his studies, allowing him to mature further."


*******************************


Arthouros:

1. I PROPOSE that upon taking Ambrakia, we should make it a Free Allied Kingdom (Type IV) and recruit a Client ruler. Also we should not enslave the population.

2. I PROPOSE that the Koinon army is to be reinforced.

3. I PROPOSE that the Koinon Army besiege Epidamnos and make it a Free Allied Kingdom (Type IV). Also we should not enslave the population.

4. I PROPOSE that we raise a 2nd Athenian Army in Athenai, comprised of professional troops.

5. I PROPOSE that Nikanor Attikos should command the 2nd Athenian Army.

6. I PROPOSE that we should not make peace with the Arche Seleukeia.

1. AGREE Walle, Biowulf, Demosthenes, Leumenes

2. AGREE Walle, Biowulf, Demosthenes, Leumenes

3. AGREE Walle, Biowulf, Demosthenes, Leumenes

4. AGREE Walle, Biowulf, Demosthenes, Leumenes

5. AGREE Walle, Biowulf, Demosthenes, Leumenes

6. AGREE Walle, Biowulf, Demosthenes, Leumenes

[jirisys]

Arthouros spoke, though he had little to say:

"Thank you Demosthenes for your kind words, I only hope that I may be as just and wise a Epistates as you were. And before I sit down once again I must say that I too realize that Nikanor is young and perhaps a tad un-experienced, but it will take time for the 2nd Athenian Army to be raised, and during that time he can direct his energies towards his studies, allowing him to mature further."


*******************************


Arthouros:

1. I PROPOSE that upon taking Ambrakia, we should make it a Free Allied Kingdom (Type IV) and recruit a Client ruler. Also we should not enslave the population.

2. I PROPOSE that the Koinon army is to be reinforced.

3. I PROPOSE that the Koinon Army besiege Epidamnos and make it a Free Allied Kingdom (Type IV). Also we should not enslave the population.

4. I PROPOSE that we raise a 2nd Athenian Army in Athenai, comprised of professional troops.

5. I PROPOSE that Nikanor Attikos should command the 2nd Athenian Army.

6. I PROPOSE that we should not make peace with the Arche Seleukeia.

1. AGREE Walle, Biowulf, Demosthenes

2. AGREE Walle, Biowulf, Demosthenes

3. AGREE Walle, Biowulf, Demosthenes

4. AGREE Walle, Biowulf, Demosthenes

5. AGREE Walle, Biowulf, Demosthenes

6. AGREE Walle, Biowulf, Demosthenes

Leumenes now 29 years old, very busy, so he had few time. He rose and said...

"I AGREE my friend."

Went off to the Akademia.

~Jirisys ()

[Gaius Sempronius Gracchus]

"Having reviewed the year's report once more, I PROPOSE that we send scouts to ascertain the extent of Epirote power to the North of Pella, so that we may be well prepared for whatever may come at us from there."

[Enyalio]

Enyalio had followed all decisions closely, but had remained silent to see how events would turn out.

"Dear friends,

Once more fate has shown us that destiny waits for no man...
Before we could think of the future, a new war was upon us. We must finsh what was started now. I AGREE with all Arthouros proposals and with the proposal to spy out the remaining Epirote power.

However, with the first Athenian Army leaderless in Mytilene, we must think upon how we will use our newfound strenght.
I believe that our war with the Epirote will soon be over, seeing the magnificent victories of our forces. Once again I stand before you andask what will be next?

I feel that this council is letting itself be carried by events, but has not yet succeeded in determining its own course.

I PROPOSE we consolidate our strenght after the Epirote war and then choose the wich cities which of our sistercities we will aid in the future (OOC: occupy) and in what order. I also ask that this council determines its attitude towards our neighbours. Who should we support when the time of choice is upon us and who do we deem less important? I for once believe that aid should be given to Sinope with utmost speed.

But equally important, seeing that we share our alliance with Sparta. I also PROPOSE that after we determine our priorities we send our ambassador to Sparta to see where their priorities lay and to make sure that our future plans do not cause strive between us."

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

"I AGREE to your recent proposals councillors. Furthermore I have a PROPOSAL, or rather an idea that also involves the Spartiatai.

It goes as following: We "divide" the world between us (Athenians, Spartans), all land West of Hellas is in the Spartan zone of expansion; Messana, Syracuse, Taras, Massalia, Emporion + every other Hellenic Colony West of Hellas. We Athenoi would not attempt to seize these poleis and not prevent the Spartiatai to seize these poleis. This also goes for any non-Hellenic region Westwards.

Likewise all land East of Hellas would be in the Athenian zone of expansion; Pergamon, Halikarnassos, Sinope, Nikeia, The Bosporan Hellenic colonies + every other Hellenic Colony East of Hellas. The same goes for any non Hellenic region Eastwards. The Spartiatai would not attempt to seize these poleis and not prevent us from seizing these poleis.

To sweeten the deal Kyrene would also fall in the Spartans sphere of expansion, and Bysantion would be incorporated as a neutral polis of the Koinon.

I will go to the Spartiatai assembly and propose this as well, and if enough people support it here in Athenai and in Sparte, I will push for this becoming a new Koinon Law"

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

Arthouros:

1. I PROPOSE that upon taking Ambrakia, we should make it a Free Allied Kingdom (Type IV) and recruit a Client ruler. Also we should not enslave the population.

2. I PROPOSE that the Koinon army is to be reinforced.

3. I PROPOSE that the Koinon Army besiege Epidamnos and make it a Free Allied Kingdom (Type IV). Also we should not enslave the population.

4. I PROPOSE that we raise a 2nd Athenian Army in Athenai, comprised of professional troops.

5. I PROPOSE that Nikanor Attikos should command the 2nd Athenian Army.

6. I PROPOSE that we should not make peace with the Arche Seleukeia.

7. I PROPOSE: "We "divide" the world between us (Athenians, Spartans), all land West of Hellas is in the Spartan zone of expansion; Messana, Syracuse, Taras, Massalia, Emporion + every other Hellenic Colony West of Hellas. We Athenoi would not attempt to seize these poleis and not prevent the Spartiatai to seize these poleis. This also goes for any non-Hellenic region Westwards.

Likewise all land East of Hellas would be in the Athenian zone of expansion; Pergamon, Halikarnassos, Sinope, Nikeia, The Bosporan Hellenic colonies + every other Hellenic Colony East of Hellas. The same goes for any non Hellenic region Eastwards. The Spartiatai would not attempt to seize these poleis and not prevent us from seizing these poleis.

To sweeten the deal Kyrene would also fall in the Spartans sphere of expansion, and Bysantion would be incorporated as a neutral polis of the Koinon."
I will go to the Spartiatai assembly and propose this as well, and if enough people support it here in Athenai and in Sparte, I will push for this becoming a new Koinon Law

1. AGREE Walle, Biowulf, Demosthenes, Leumenes, Enyalio

2. AGREE Walle, Biowulf, Demosthenes, Leumenes, Enyalio

3. AGREE Walle, Biowulf, Demosthenes, Leumenes, Enyalio

4. AGREE Walle, Biowulf, Demosthenes, Leumenes, Enyalio

5. AGREE Walle, Biowulf, Demosthenes, Leumenes, Enyalio

6. AGREE Walle, Biowulf, Demosthenes, Leumenes, Enyalio

7.

Demosthenes:

1. I PROPOSE that we send scouts to ascertain the extent of Epirote power to the North of Pella, so that we may be well prepared for whatever may come at us from there."


1. AGREE Arthouros, Enyalio


Enyalio (not orders for Molinaargh, but rather proposals for the members of the Athenai assembly):

1. I PROPOSE we consolidate our strength after the Epirote war and then choose the which cities which of our sister cities we will aid in the future (OOC: occupy) and in what order. Bring up debate where we should expand in the Athenai assembly.

2. I PROPOSE that after we determine our priorities we send our ambassador to Sparta to see where their priorities lay and to make sure that our future plans do not cause strive between us.

1. AGREE Arthouros (with Counter Proposal, See Arthouros Proposal No.7)

2. AGREE Arthouros (with Counter Proposal, See Arthouros Proposal No.7)

[Molinaargh]

This polis session is now closed.

Thanks a lot for the proposal summary Arthur, don't know what I'd do without you here and Mainolfi over at the Spartan Council.

Arthouros's "division" proposal may continue to be discussed since it's a long term one.

[Gaius Sempronius Gracchus]

"I AGREE to your recent proposals councillors. Furthermore I have a PROPOSAL, or rather an idea that also involves the Spartiatai.

It goes as following: We "divide" the world between us (Athenians, Spartans), all land West of Hellas is in the Spartan zone of expansion; Messana, Syracuse, Taras, Massalia, Emporion + every other Hellenic Colony West of Hellas. We Athenoi would not attempt to seize these poleis and not prevent the Spartiatai to seize these poleis. This also goes for any non-Hellenic region Westwards.

Likewise all land East of Hellas would be in the Athenian zone of expansion; Pergamon, Halikarnassos, Sinope, Nikeia, The Bosporan Hellenic colonies + every other Hellenic Colony East of Hellas. The same goes for any non Hellenic region Eastwards. The Spartiatai would not attempt to seize these poleis and not prevent us from seizing these poleis.

To sweeten the deal Kyrene would also fall in the Spartans sphere of expansion, and Bysantion would be incorporated as a neutral polis of the Koinon.

I will go to the Spartiatai assembly and propose this as well, and if enough people support it here in Athenai and in Sparte, I will push for this becoming a new Koinon Law"

Though the council is over, I have to add my agreement to this, as it does not concern immediate action to be taken but is, rather, a proposal for the longer-term strategy of the Koinon. Makes sense... to me.

[Molinaargh]

258 BC


Athenian motions:
-Take Ambrakia and make it a Free Allied Kingdom (Type IV). Recruit a Client ruler. The population must not be enslaved. (Yes)
-Koinon Army is to be reinforced. (Yes)
-Koinon Army must besiege Epidamnos and make it a Free Allied Kingdom (Type IV). Do not enslave the population. (Yes)
-Raise a 2nd Athenian Army in Athenai, comprised of professional troops. (Yes)
-Nikanor Attikos should command the 2nd Athenian Army. (He and the Army are still under training in Athenai)
-Do not make peace with the Arche Seleukeia. (Yes)
-Send scouts to ascertain the extent of Epirote power to the North of Pella, so that we may be well prepared for whatever may come at us from there. (Yes)


Spartan motions:
-Attack Thermon and kill Pyrrhos in battle. (Yes)
-Train more troops (3 more units of hoplitai and 1 more unit of pelatastai, because now that we have a Polemarchos we can increase the strength of the 1st Army of Sparte from 8 units to 12). (Yes)
-Recruit more units in Sparte (possibly for a 3rd army or for reinforcements). (Yes)
-Start to look into attacking Byzantion. (Okay)



Pyrrhic Defeat (Part 1)



Councilors, there is much to report before this Council today.

News came from the West that a tribe of barbarians were imitating us hellenes and becoming quite powerful in doing so. Well, how could they not?

https://img43.imageshack.us/img43/4511/000egx.jpg

But this year we had more immediate concerns in Epeiros. Ambrakia, our enemy's capital, was about to fall to the Alliance Army.

https://img3.imageshack.us/img3/7468/001hsgu.jpg


https://img11.imageshack.us/img11/5803/002ukr.jpg


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The population of the city and its surroundings was dispersed in order to avoid revolts. Strategos Doros couldn't afford to stay in the city - he had to continue fighting the war - so it was best to create such a chaos that no opposition could be organized against the Koinon, then move on.

https://img97.imageshack.us/img97/1553/008zps.jpg

With the sack of Ambrakia, Doros became a very rich man. In wealth; he was already rich in honor!

https://img6.imageshack.us/img6/2761/009tw.jpg

The Epeirotes had a highly organized military recruitment system, and Doros used this to his advantage, recruiting some heavy spearmen to continue his campaign against what remained of Epeiros.

https://img413.imageshack.us/img413/1559/010zx.jpg


https://img254.imageshack.us/img254/5900/011den.jpg

As soon as an improvised civil authority obedient to the Koinon was established in Ambrakia, Doros moved out.


https://img689.imageshack.us/img689/1070/012sa.jpg


https://img718.imageshack.us/img718/4157/013skt.jpg

On his way to Epidamnos, an Illyrian force loyal to Pyrrhos was found preparing an ambush. There was another Illyrian force, this one unloyal, but they stayed away from Doros's path, and his target was Epidamnos afterall.

https://img413.imageshack.us/img413/583/014ezd.jpg


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After this victory, Epidamnos was reached and besieged.

https://img560.imageshack.us/img560/8365/020in.jpg

Back home, in Athenai, a new professional army was being recruited.

https://img594.imageshack.us/img594/2055/021igq.jpg


https://img3.imageshack.us/img3/7803/022ju.jpg

In Sparte the same was being done.

https://img148.imageshack.us/img148/7863/023jm.jpg

The Spartan Kings, Eudamidas and Akrotatos, began to have trouble with their supplies. It was time to end the siege of Thermon, and finally face Pyrrhos of Epeiros.

https://img833.imageshack.us/img833/9840/024be.jpg


https://img710.imageshack.us/img710/8300/025bt.jpg

Pyrrhos seemed confident despite being outnumbered.

https://img825.imageshack.us/img825/4706/026yo.jpg


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https://img340.imageshack.us/img340/6893/039rv.jpg

Pyrrhos was killed in battle. It seems the Oracle gave him ill advice afterall. Perhaps it will be better for the hellenes to stay away from the Oracle and her advices.

https://img841.imageshack.us/img841/2219/040yu.jpg

Pyrrhos's body lay in the streets of Thermon. It was still undecided what would be done with his remains.

https://img825.imageshack.us/img825/8544/041by.jpg


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Eudamidas was apparently blind to what had happened to Pyrrhos and decided to listen to the Oracle of Delphic Apollo.

https://img602.imageshack.us/img602/5008/045l.jpg

A Spartan Agoge was established in Thermon, the first outside Sparte since the beginning of the Koinon.

https://img202.imageshack.us/img202/5812/045bz.jpg


https://img837.imageshack.us/img837/4417/045cy.jpg

[Molinaargh]

Pyrrhic Defeat (Part 2)
(Divided in 2 parts due to limit of 50 screenshots per post, I had 72)



In Rhodos, Eugenios was making new friends: Poublios, a young Athenian that wasn't a great commander either.

https://img600.imageshack.us/img600/9017/046rb.jpg

Reports were made on the remaining lands that belonged to the Epeirote Basileion. The 3 main cities were in the north of Hellas, close to the land of the Getai tribes.

https://img526.imageshack.us/img526/8848/047fkp.jpg


https://img256.imageshack.us/img256/8177/048yi.jpg


https://img209.imageshack.us/img209/5001/049rq.jpg


https://img827.imageshack.us/img827/4849/050zg.jpg

The assault on Epidamnos began before the winter. Ptolemaios, son of Pyrrhos, tried to defend the city with the few men he had.

https://img132.imageshack.us/img132/9708/051gkv.jpg


https://img121.imageshack.us/img121/4265/052ts.jpg


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All of Hellas was now united under the Koinon.

https://img62.imageshack.us/img62/6430/061dx.jpg

But there were still those who wished to dispute this domain. Helenos Aiakides was the last surviving member of the Aiakides royal line, and plotted his revenge in Illyria. He is plotting as you hear this.

https://img837.imageshack.us/img837/6981/062zp.jpg


https://img3.imageshack.us/img3/5636/062bf.jpg

The northern holdings of Helenos Aiakides, who calls himself Basileus of Epeiros.

https://img31.imageshack.us/img31/227/062ce.jpg

Maps of Hellas and its surroundings.

https://img534.imageshack.us/img534/7082/063aw.jpg


https://img132.imageshack.us/img132/7818/064um.jpg


https://img268.imageshack.us/img268/5873/065rt.jpg

With the conquest of Thermon and the establishment of a Spartan Agoge, tension increased between the powers of the League.

https://i.imgur.com/7wacQ.jpg


https://img256.imageshack.us/img256/3039/athens.png
This council session is now open!

[jirisys]

Leuemenes stood up, valiantly waving his remorse at the spartans complete and utter lack of commitment for neutrality. Stood up. He had now a son, Chremonides, who was born one year ago, named after his friend and his strategos. Yet, he had enough time for the boule.

"My compatriots. What we have seen here with the spartan's lack of respect of the polis sovereignity, has put upon an agoge by the sword in Thermon. My brave men, we cannot confront them, as it would lead to even more problems later on. However, the SNP (Sparte Nationalist Party) is dragging this Koinon to where it had been ten years ago, upon the most divided period. We must put our efforts to stop that arrogance, feat which they are proud of. Ah the arrogance, I am sick of just having to see their delirious proposals and it's far more excrutiating, that they are agreed upon by many! I would like to see the Spartan Unionist Party try to stop this extreme and volatile ideas they put in motion. Also, members of the Hellenos and the Hellas parties, we must boycott their idiotic plans, by putting forth many great, wise, and well thought out ideas in the Gerousia, we cannot let their irrationalistic ideas that were dumped years ago, bring forth a new dark age in this great Koinon.

Yet we cannot argue, or become hostile, we must mantain ourseleves as neutral, and not to incite a possible war between us both."

He sat down, deliberating upon his next points.

~Jirisys ()

[diomede]

OOC: While I am rather disappointed with the institution of a type 1 government instead of a type 2, I must say that Athenians making proposals at TWC doesn't help matters as it fuels the nationalistic tendency. I have made suggestions here, of course, but never phrased it as an actual proposal. For now I think it may be wise to avoid making actual proposals.

While on the topic of government type though, I did notice Athens conquered Crete in order to swing them over to Athenian influence, despite a Spartan seige having to be lifted years before in order to assist the mainland, Athens included. I believe this may count as one of the blue squares on the civil war meter. What do you feel would be the other two for yourselves, and the other three for Sparta? Or at least, what of the original ones is most contentious?

There has been a proposal that the Second Athenian assist the Second Spartan in beseiging Serdike, with the motivation towards healing the rift by working together. The town would of course be neutral in influence.

[Populus Romanus]

I congratulate Leumenes over his new son. May he live long and prosper.:vulcan: I would loke to elaborate on Ephor Diomede's suggestion by giving the reasons for this, although they may be obvious. Quite frankly, the garrison of Serdike is huge. Plus, we want Serdike to remain neutral to avoid further boosting the civil war meter. So it would be very helpful to have the Army of Athenai assisst in the siege.

[The_Blacksmith]

Kaleros up, for the first time in quite a while, since he had been wounded together the the Allied Hippies Contingent, though he still was slightly limb his biggest pain was the fact that, eventhough we, the greeks, Spartans as well as Athenians had overcome so much, why do we have our petty squabbles over the Thermonos?!?!

"Let the spartans have it, its not the only greek port? and, indeed we have yet to thank the spartans for helping us in the times of need!"

I PROPOSE an act of tolerancy towards Spartan Hedgemony over Thermon :)

[jirisys]

OOC: While I am rather disappointed with the institution of a type 1 government instead of a type 2, I must say that Athenians making proposals at TWC doesn't help matters as it fuels the nationalistic tendency. I have made suggestions here, of course, but never phrased it as an actual proposal. For now I think it may be wise to avoid making actual proposals.

While on the topic of government type though, I did notice Athens conquered Crete in order to swing them over to Athenian influence, despite a Spartan seige having to be lifted years before in order to assist the mainland, Athens included. I believe this may count as one of the blue squares on the civil war meter. What do you feel would be the other two for yourselves, and the other three for Sparta? Or at least, what of the original ones is most contentious?

There has been a proposal that the Second Athenian assist the Second Spartan in beseiging Serdike, with the motivation towards healing the rift by working together. The town would of course be neutral in influence.

We did not ask dor a type II, a type III would have been enough.

Actually I asked for a type III but a type II was more accepted :shame:

~Jirisys ()

[Paltmull]

Molinaargh, would it be possible to get a closer look at the Seleucid armies besieging Pergamon, without waiting a year?

Anyway, I AGREE with Arturos' long-term proposal regarding "dividing the world" between Sparta and Athens.

[diomede]

Ah, I see. Fair enough.

Blacksmith, thank you for your notion of support. You may be a little more tolerant than you should, but it is appreciated all the same!

[The_Blacksmith]

Ah, I see. Fair enough.

Blacksmith, thank you for your notion of support. You may be a little more tolerant than you should, but it is appreciated all the same!

Well... after all, the great polises of greece fell to the Makedones because we fought each other... dont forget that

[Molinaargh]

Molinaargh, would it be possible to get a closer look at the Seleucid armies besieging Pergamon, without waiting a year?
https://i.imgur.com/x0Df7.jpg

You're welcome.

[Paltmull]

Thanks! (I meant a year in-game of course, not as some kind of sarcastic remark ^___^ )

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

OOC: While I am rather disappointed with the institution of a type 1 government instead of a type 2, I must say that Athenians making proposals at TWC doesn't help matters as it fuels the nationalistic tendency. I have made suggestions here, of course, but never phrased it as an actual proposal. For now I think it may be wise to avoid making actual proposals.

I believe I speak for everyone when I say that we Athenians would not view a proposal coming from a Spartan in our assembly as arrogant or impolite, on the contrary we would welcome it. So I assure you there is no need for this self-imposed "do not propose in Athenian assembly" rule.

In the same manner we do not view ourselves as impolite for propsing in the Spartan assembly, as long as we don't say something along the lines of: "Hey Sparta, give us all your cities will you?" You get the idea.



While on the topic of government type though, I did notice Athens conquered Crete in order to swing them over to Athenian influence, despite a Spartan seige having to be lifted years before in order to assist the mainland, Athens included. I believe this may count as one of the blue squares on the civil war meter. What do you feel would be the other two for yourselves, and the other three for Sparta? Or at least, what of the original ones is most contentious?


There has been a proposal that the Second Athenian assist the Second Spartan in beseiging Serdike, with the motivation towards healing the rift by working together. The town would of course be neutral in influence.

I see the merit in this.

Therefore I PROPOSE that the Athenian 2nd Army support the Spartan 2nd Army in the upcoming siege of Serdike, and that Serdike is to remain neutal.

[The_Blacksmith]

"Herd herd!"

I AGREE with Authorous' motion on supporting the Spartans

[jirisys]

Molinaargh, would it be possible to get a closer look at the Seleucid armies besieging Pergamon, without waiting a year?

Anyway, I AGREE with Arturos' long-term proposal regarding "dividing the world" between Sparta and Athens.

I DISAGREE with dividing the world, first off, that would be exclusive towards the poleis, one should go when and where it can go, do not pose boundaries, as it would make them think they can do whatever they want with their side regardless of how impolite or damaging it can become, not only to the poleis themselves, but to the koinon also. Do not divide the loot before even seeing where to get it, I wish that all cities to remain independent, not be forced into democracy or agogeia by the sword, but rather by choice.


I believe I speak for everyone when I say that we Athenians would not view a proposal coming from a Spartan in our assembly as arrogant or impolite, on the contrary we would welcome it. So I assure you there is no need for this self-imposed "do not propose in Athenian assembly" rule.

In the same manner we do not view ourselves as impolite for propsing in the Spartan assembly, as long as we don't say something along the lines of: "Hey Sparta, give us all your cities will you?" You get the idea.

I see the merit in this.

Therefore I PROPOSE that the Athenian 2nd Army support the Spartan 2nd Army in the upcoming siege of Serdike, and that Serdike is to remain neutal.

I AGREE with this proposal

~Jirisys ()

[Molinaargh]

Wait, that is all?

The only Athenian motion for next year is:
-2nd Athenian Army to assist the 2nd Spartan Army in the siege of Serdike.

What of the Alliance Army under Doros?
What of Poublios Karnasios, the new Athenian character?
No building projects?
Nothing shall be done about Helenos Aiakides in Dalminion?
No orders for the assassin?
No fortifications or watch towers to be built?

Councilors of Athenai, it seems this session will need to last another day in order for your wise minds to come up with actions for those with lesser minds to perform.

[Biowulf]

Fellow Councilors! The great voice in the sky makes a good point, we need to come up with our orders so that we do not waste our chances with the Alliance Army and our newest admission to the family. Therefore, I Propose that we move Poublios to Athens to receive a proper education, that the Alliance army is retrained and reequipped to face Helenos in Dalminion, that our spies infiltrate Dalminion to aid our assassin in destroying some economic buildings, and that we enhance our own economy through better roads and markets.
How votes the council?

[jirisys]

The great voice in the sky makes a good point

rofl

Edit: I will join the Boule later...

~Jirisys (:laugh4:)

[Antinous]

I have seen much in my many years of watching the Hellenes. This I know, when we Greeks head into barbarian lands we become barbarians ourselves. Look at what has happened to Alexander's empire. The Hellenes there were torn apart by barbarians states instead of being brought together by their own similarities!! I PROPOSE we go no farther north than Serdike for even though the enemy will remain we can still cut off his arms, so that he can swing no sword. Of this I give to you my fellows. I have watched many a Greek become beside himself when in barbarian lands, we must never go that far inland!! Look what happened to our current enemies the Epeirotes! They are now almost fully barbarians!! The farther one goes from Hellas the worse he becomes!! Before I end my words my good fellows I say this, look at what happened in Magna Graecia.

[jirisys]

A slave brought a parchment from the Gerousia, reading:



AGREE [COLOR=Black]with Artorius' proposal that Sparta will expand westwards while the Athenians expand eastwards. I would like to avoid civil war as much as possible.

I DISAGREE, as I pointed out in the Boule:


that would be exclusive towards the poleis, one should go when and where it can go, do not pose boundaries, as it would make them think they can do whatever they want with their side regardless of how impolite or damaging it can become, not only to the poleis themselves, but to the koinon also. Do not divide the loot before even seeing where to get it, I wish that all cities to remain independent, not be forced into democracy or agogeia by the sword, but rather by choice.


I [COLOR="Red"]DISAGREE with making Thermon an Agoge. It is stupid. There thats the truth.

I PROPOSE. That until a more professional army is organized, and all levies are replaced, we hold off on our Expansion Plans. After all, Epeiros has been crushed, no other main power remains. In the meantime, what I would like, is that a chain of forts be constructed North of Pella to safeguard the city from further attack.

Yes, the agoge is sacred, it's unique, only the spartans can be such brave and hardened men, no one outside the polis will resist what a spartan can, I must DISAGREE also.

I wholeheartedly AGREE with this proposal. It seems that the Molossians have been destroyed, they have chosen the life of the polis and joined the Koinon, the few remaining migrated to the north and are no more than greeks who chose the way of the tribe, they are, instead of a danger, a buffer, a help. This wars are neverending, when we destroy an enemy, we get two more, we cannot continue this vicious cicle, as the next enemy would be the dreaded falxmen that cut men in two, the getae are ruthless and vicious, barbarians without hope, we cannot go and lose many men for tribes that do not want the polis; so, let's take advantage of this situation, the Epeirotai are tribal, yet with greek culture, we must ask them for peace and cooperation. As they are greeks, they will see our sovereignity over their lands and men, and will grant us peace, if not, they will be forced into it, their men are but levies, (use FD) we can crush them with a single army, let us threaten them, and offer support, as we will assist against the dreaded barbaroi, but we will still be able to crush their armies.
As such, I PROPOSE we offer peace to the Epeirotai, and become allies, to support them against their fight with the savage Getae, or we do it by force (FD), we just hold them off, or we crush them, and prepare for a slaughter.


I have my reservations about simply dividing the world in two. It makes it all too easy to forget that we are working together. Also there is the problem of the Alliance army. I imagine that whenever a strategos from a different party is elected, they would want to use the Alliance army in their sphere of influence, which would take up alot of time..
It would, however stop the bickering over who owns who. For now, I won't disagree with the proposal, but I'm not supporting it either.

Yes, it is true, we can even ask for help from the spartans in Asia, and us athenians go to help you in Syrakousai. Imagine a Spartan army in Chersonesos, and an Athenian one in Syrakousai; not as conquerors, but as reinforcements, as support, as friends...

This Koinon must not fall like it did ten years ago... I (with support from my party, the Hellenos party and the Unionist party) will not let it happen.

~Jirisys ()

~Jirisys ()

[Gaius Sempronius Gracchus]

"My friend Leumenes makes many fine points, not the least of which is his allusion to our Koinon not imposing itself upon free states. I agree with the sentiment of that. There are many reasons why. It is right, first and foremost, that we behave as good Hellenes and recognise the sovereignty and rights of those free states. That, after all, is one of the principles of our Koinon, isn't it? Also, while-ever there are, between us and the greater empires, those free states keep those empires at arms length, allowing our own economy to propser; allowing us to strengthen our position and better enable us to face down their hostility. For that reason I PROPOSE that we send the Athenian army at Mytilene to relieve Pergamon. I, further, PROPOSE that if we are too late to relieve its position and it is taken, that we take the city from the Seleucids; if they have taken it then whether we do or do not liberate Pergamon our borders are in danger from them. Also, I PROPOSE that the Koinon first seek alliance, at least, with Epiros. Preferably they should come under our protection. If they do not accept this then we should take Dalminion and ensure that Helenos Aiakides does not survive that action. The Epirote threat will dissolve upon such action, having no obvious leader to rally around. We can then fortify our position north of Pella and look to protect the independent barbaroi confederations against the greater threat of a barbarion Getai empire.

I AGREE with Biowulf's proposals that we move Poublios to Athens to receive a proper education, that the Alliance army is retrained and reequipped to face Helenos in Dalminion, that our spies infiltrate Dalminion to aid our assassin in destroying some economic buildings, and that we enhance our own economy through better roads and markets."

[Populus Romanus]

I must say I am quite pleased with the inter councill cooperation going on here. Several year ago the thought of an joint Athenai Sparte venture would have been unthinable. Long live the Koinon Hellenon!

[Lazy O]

Athenians, I come to warn you, do not make the mistake of angering the Arche. For when they set their eyes upon Hellas, It is Athens which will bear the brunt of the assault seeing as it is the only Polis with a navy. For this reason, I SUGGEST that the Athenians strengthen their navy before an attack on the Arche. I say this with all due respect, and have nothing but the safety of the Koinon in mind.

[Gaius Sempronius Gracchus]

Athenians, I come to warn you, do not make the mistake of angering the Arche. For when they set their eyes upon Hellas, It is Athens which will bear the brunt of the assault seeing as it is the only Polis with a navy. For this reason, I SUGGEST that the Athenians strengthen their navy before an attack on the Arche. I say this with all due respect, and have nothing but the safety of the Koinon in mind.

"Your suggestion makes good sense, we should strengthen our navy. I will therefore PROPOSE exactly that, that we strengthen the Athenai navy. As for whether or not we attack the Seleucids, we have little choice. If we do not, then they will be on our doorstep, they will take Pergamon as their own and our borders will be adjacent to theirs. As for angering them.... it takes little more than for a polis to be free of their suzerainty to bring them to such a state, it seems. Whether we desire to anger them or not, I sense that our very presence does so."

[Biowulf]

I Agree to Demosthenes's proposals to send the army to relieve and/or capture Pergamon and to strengthen our navy.
I Disagree with the proposal to seek and alliance with the Epirotes. We should seek to make them a protectorate, or else assimilate them.
Change that to: Agree to make Epeiros our protectorate, or else.

[Gaius Sempronius Gracchus]

I Agree to Demosthenes's proposals to send the army to relieve and/or capture Pergamon and to strengthen our navy.
I Disagree with the proposal to seek and alliance with the Epirotes. We should seek to make them a protectorate, or else assimilate them.

OOC To the latter...that's what I was trying to get at, but I worded it badly. So I shall change that to PROPOSE that we seek that the Epirotes become our protectorate, and if they refuse then we should take Dalminion and kill Helenos.

[Biowulf]

Well I can agree to that then :)

[Gaius Sempronius Gracchus]

Therefore I PROPOSE that the Athenian 2nd Army support the Spartan 2nd Army in the upcoming siege of Serdike, and that Serdike is to remain neutal.

Arthouros, much as it is against my general nature to do so, your wisdom in this council having played no small part in the Koinon's many successes, I must DISAGREE with this proposal. It is not that I do not wish to offer aid to the Spartans, but rather that I see no reason for taking Serdike, provided that we take Dalminion and rid ourselves of Helenos Aikiades. But, reviewing the reports, it seems a reasonably large army has moved from Dalminion at some point before Helenos entered there. I think it is important that we know the whereabouts of this army, so that we may not be surprised by their re-appearance. Therefore I PROPOSE that, prior to our moving on Dalminion, we ascertain the whereabouts and extent of the missing army, and if needs be deal with it prior to Dalminion.

[Molinaargh]

This polis session is now over.

[Molinaargh]

257 BC


Athenian orders:
-Offer Epeiros to become a protectorate of the Koinon. Should they reject, conquer Dalminion and kill Helenos Aiakides. (See update!)
-2nd Athenian Army to assist the 2nd Spartan Army in the siege of Serdike. (Yes)
-Send the Athenian Army to relieve the siege of Pergamon. If the Seleukids conquer Pergamon, take it from them. (Yes)
-Strengthen the Athenian Fleet. (Yes)
-Poublios returns to Athens to finish his education. (Yes)
-Build roads and markets. (Not yet)

Spartan orders:
-Assault Serdike. The city should remain neutral in the Koinon. (Not yet)
-Attempt to assassinate Helenos Aiakides. (Yes)
-Improve recruitment in Sparte. (Yes)
-Improve the economy of Korinthos and Pella. (Yes)
-The establishment of a Spartan Agoge in Thermon is to be cancelled. A hellenic klerouchy is to be established instead. (Yes)


Dead Kings




The year of 257 BC began with a surprising offer. An eastern basileion called "Saba" sent an emissary to the Koinon in order to establish a new trade route. This route would go from their lands through Ptolemaic lands, our allies, and finally arrive in the ports of Hellas.



https://img340.imageshack.us/img340/7773/001qxs.jpg

Poublios moved back to Athenai to finish his studies as advised by the Athenian Council.

https://img228.imageshack.us/img228/1173/002ptm.jpg

Another man was about to start his education as well, although it would be much different. The son of Eudamidas, the second Spartan King, was old enough to begin his training in the Agoge.

https://img232.imageshack.us/img232/1016/003set.jpg



https://img571.imageshack.us/img571/8981/004ws.jpg



https://img263.imageshack.us/img263/2024/004bia.jpg



https://img37.imageshack.us/img37/3277/004ch.jpg

Also in Sparte, an improvement to the military facilities of the polis began.

https://img255.imageshack.us/img255/2788/005te.jpg



https://img508.imageshack.us/img508/8234/006abk.jpg

In the region of Makedonia, investments were made in agriculture.

https://img84.imageshack.us/img84/6551/006bq.jpg



https://img41.imageshack.us/img41/6846/006cx.jpg

In Athenai, the Athenian Fleet was strenghtened.

https://img189.imageshack.us/img189/4852/006dmv.jpg

Now, in the frontier, the Athenians were looking for peace. A deal was proposed to Helenos Aiakides, the last succesor of Pyrrhos.

https://img88.imageshack.us/img88/3177/007vwh.jpg

He refused.

https://img248.imageshack.us/img248/7041/008pi.jpg

So there was no option but to destroy him and his barbaric holdings. The First Spartan Army moved out of Thermon, giving up on the establishment of a Spartan Agoge in the polis.

https://img402.imageshack.us/img402/4066/009jop.jpg


https://img809.imageshack.us/img809/1046/010mvg.jpg

The Athenian 2nd Army, a force under training, was sent to help in the future attack by the Spartans against Serdike. Men from the "3rd" Spartan Army were also sent.

https://img34.imageshack.us/img34/3862/011ru.jpg

The Alliance Army also made its move. Doros led the men towards Dalminion, where Helenos Aiakides gathered his forces.

https://img135.imageshack.us/img135/6853/012dlx.jpg

Xenoklaos, an assassin hired by the Koinon, had other plans for Helenos.

https://img153.imageshack.us/img153/9165/013jvt.jpg



https://img688.imageshack.us/img688/7835/013bry.jpg



https://img98.imageshack.us/img98/7469/014bj.jpg



https://img84.imageshack.us/img84/8485/015ks.jpg

Helenos was dead. The last Aiakides, the last child of Pyrrhos, the last King of Epeiros. But the epeirote generals who had aided in the conquest of the north weren't ready to give up. Archiades Kathraios, an epeirote nobleman, had claims on the title of Basileus.

https://img507.imageshack.us/img507/2184/016uo.jpg

Xenoclaos tried to ruin his plans as well, but this time the assassin didn't have the same luck.

https://img15.imageshack.us/img15/7975/017zxx.jpg



https://img507.imageshack.us/img507/7687/018ji.jpg

Doros moved against Dalminion, attacking an Illyrian field army that was patrolling around the settlement.

https://img834.imageshack.us/img834/9717/019rhl.jpg



https://img291.imageshack.us/img291/4421/020guy.jpg



https://img413.imageshack.us/img413/1848/021ll.jpg



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https://img703.imageshack.us/img703/5349/023dg.jpg



https://img202.imageshack.us/img202/6207/024vw.jpg

He then moved on to besiege Dalminion. It is still under siege right now.

https://img824.imageshack.us/img824/3631/025fjb.jpg



https://img16.imageshack.us/img16/9038/026wh.jpg

Fearsome barbarians were hired by Doros to reduce the difference in manpower between the garrison of Dalminion and the Alliance Army. But Doros was still outnumbered.

https://img814.imageshack.us/img814/854/027yo.jpg

The Athenian Council decided Pergamon had to be saved from the Seleukids. Nikanor, brother of Doros, took it upon himself to lead the Athenian Army.

https://img217.imageshack.us/img217/3538/028lh.jpg

When he arrived, the Seleukids had apparently lost the battle against Pergamon. Not willing to return to Athenai without a victory, he decided to conquer the polis.

https://img267.imageshack.us/img267/4205/029bea.jpg



https://img201.imageshack.us/img201/8595/030cj.jpg



https://img508.imageshack.us/img508/2836/031rli.jpg



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https://img406.imageshack.us/img406/7429/034la.jpg



https://img842.imageshack.us/img842/9412/035sr.jpg

Pergamon was the newest polis of the Koinon, and also the most populous.

https://img405.imageshack.us/img405/7077/036zf.jpg

Nikanor established himself with the local nobility through marriage. He married Rhode, a woman from the Pergamese royal family. She was 6 years older than him, but still young and a strong political ally.

https://img713.imageshack.us/img713/5126/037ip.jpg


https://img146.imageshack.us/img146/4075/038nj.jpg

The attack on Serdike was only ready by the winter, and then the severe winter didn't allow Polemarchos Akrotatos to march any further. His men were extremely tired from marching all the way from Thermon.

https://img266.imageshack.us/img266/7325/039st.jpg

Back in Pella, a rebellion began as soon as Damasos moved out of the polis. The Makedon dynasty may be dead, but the makedones still resist the Koinon's righteous rule.

https://img407.imageshack.us/img407/717/040zi.jpg

Doros still had Dalminion under siege, not confident in assault the settlement due to being outnumbered.

https://img404.imageshack.us/img404/9773/041op.jpg

The southern poleis were peaceful, and Nikanor had a good garrison in Pergamon.

https://img843.imageshack.us/img843/1631/042hky.jpg




https://img256.imageshack.us/img256/3039/athens.png
The polis session is now open again for decisions to be made regarding the year of 256 BC.

[Greenlizard0.]

I have a question: Since the Spartans decited to build a hellenic klerouchy instead of a Spartan Agogehe, shouldn't the relations be improving now?

My first proposal to the council is to build a hellenic klerouchy in Pergamon and my second is to improve the walls there.

[Paltmull]

I have a question: Since the Spartans decited to build a hellenic klerouchy instead of a Spartan Agogehe, shouldn't the relations be improving now?

My first proposal to the council is to build a hellenic klerouchy in Pergamon and my second is to improve the walls there.

I AGREE with both proposals.

I PROPOSE that we maintain the siege of Dalminion. Trying to assault it will be too costly.

I also PROPOSE that we strengthen the Alliance army, preferably by recruiting from the nearby cities. If there's not enough time before the Epirotes sally or Epirote reinforcements arrive, we should hire mercenaries instead.

[Populus Romanus]

Would you guys be open to reinforcement by the Army of Sparte?

[Greenlizard0.]

I AGREE with both proposals.

I PROPOSE that we maintain the siege of Dalminion. Trying to assault it will be too costly.

I also PROPOSE that we strengthen the Alliance army, preferably by recruiting from the nearby cities. If there's not enough time before the Epirotes sally or Epirote reinforcements arrive, we should hire mercenaries instead.

Agreed.

A few proposals:

1: We should agree with a joint Athenian-Spartan army under the autority of Athens
2: Cities taken with that army must be neutral in the Koinons politics

I WITHRAW my proposal, convinced by Patmul's post somwhere down here.

[Biowulf]

I agree with Greenlizard0's first two proposals and to Paltmulls proposals.
I disagree with Greenlizard's last two because that sounds almost exactly like the Alliance Army except for it's control by Athenians and there's no way we could force the Spartans to contribute to an Athenian army.

[diomede]

Wait, I am confused. Why did you conquer Pegamon if the purpose was to protect it? Also yes, I would hope to see the civil war meter revert to its pre-Thermon state.

@ Biowulf: Unless, of course, we change the law so that we may have more armies in general as our family tree expands. I do agree that for now, such a proposal is out of the question.

[Paltmull]

A few proposals:

1: We should agree with a joint Athenian-Spartan army under the autority of Athens
2: Cities taken with that army must be neutral in the Koinons politics

I DISAGREE!

[diomede]

Athenians, a joint army has also been proposed in our halls. Here are the notes that my slave made:


1)I PROPOSE the current 3rd Spartan Army be "gifted" to Athenai (to lower the civil war meter), but that we maintain partial control, such as the ability to recall it in the case of severe emergency
I personally am wary of allowing Spartan soldiers to die without a Spartan general, however as long as this army is used for the benefit of the Koinon above all others I am not too opposed. I would however prefer to see a Spartain take up a captaincy there.

This proposal is of specific interest to me as it aims to reduce the tension between us.

[Paltmull]

But if the army is to be used for Koinon interests it might as well be controlled by Sparta, right?

I don't like the idea anyway. If many Spartans would die in some devastating battle, for example, tensions are likely to increase rather than decrease. And if - the gods forbid - there would be a civil war, we wouldn't be too happy in having to deal with a revolting Spartan army.

So thanks for the kind offer, but I think we should turn it down.

[Biowulf]

I think the best action would be for us to ask Sparta for reinforcements for the Alliance Army, or for Sparta to volunteer them. Either one would work. All this nonsense about gifting armies or having a joint Athenian/Spartan army under control of one city isn't going to help right now.

[diomede]

I think the best action would be for us to ask Sparta for reinforcements for the Alliance Army, or for Sparta to volunteer them. Either one would work. All this nonsense about gifting armies or having a joint Athenian/Spartan army under control of one city isn't going to help right now.

I like your stance.

[Gaius Sempronius Gracchus]

Like you, Diomede, I am perturbed by Nikanor's actions regarding Pergamon. It seems he has overstepped his remit from the Athenian council. Was he so interested in the glory of his own name? Now we have the Seleucids on our borders, and we have subjugated a free polis. Our reputation has been damaged by his actions, as has our security.

I would like to respond to Populus Romanus' suggestion regarding our armies at Dalminion being assisted by the Spartan army. I speak for myself, but can only imagine that many..., many here will agree, that the suggestion of aid is most welcome and makes great sense. I AGREE with Paltmull on this, that we maintain the siege of Dalminion. I AGREE also with his proposal to reinforce the Athenian army, even with mercenaries if need be BUT... if the Spartan army is sent to our aid, then we would have no need of expensive mercenaries.

I also AGREE with Greenlizards second proposal, that we build and improve the defences at Pergamon. I DISAGREE with building a Klerouchy there and would PROPOSE instead that it be an allied and autonomous province (level IV) - especially given the circumstances of our taking of the city.

[Gaius Sempronius Gracchus]

Athenians, a joint army has also been proposed in our halls. Here are the notes that my slave made:


I personally am wary of allowing Spartan soldiers to die without a Spartan general, however as long as this army is used for the benefit of the Koinon above all others I am not too opposed. I would however prefer to see a Spartain take up a captaincy there.

This proposal is of specific interest to me as it aims to reduce the tension between us.

Diomede, I am in agreement with Paltmull on this offer by the Spartan council, but I will say that I am heartened by the prevailing sense of co-operation that I see blossoming both here and in the council of Sparte. It seems there is a real will to make this alliance work, to the benefit of both of our cities, and our people....and all people of Hellas. Let it be known in Sparte that, while we would decline the offer, it is meant as no dishonour to Sparte, and that the offer - and the sentiment behind that offer - has been welcomed. As has, and we Athenians should not overlook it, the Spartan's renunciation of the Agoge in Thermon.

As a final point...., for now, I PROPOSE, given the new situation in Asia, that we send scouts to ascertain the strength of those states immediately on our borders. I believe we may have to strengthen our military position there.

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

@Molinaargh I just wanted to stop by and say that I'll most likely not make a "proposal collection" thing this in-game year, got some timeconsuming RL stuff to deal with atm.